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Lyr Req: song in rhyming slang

Related threads:
Folklore: Rhyming Slang - is it still used? (43)
Lyr Req: cockney rhyming slang songs (87)
BS: Scots Rhyming Slang??? (66)
Folklore: What is a 'furtive Jodrell'? (33)


pavane 18 Jun 01 - 07:43 AM
pavane 18 Jun 01 - 11:17 AM
Charley Noble 18 Jun 01 - 04:27 PM
pavane 18 Jun 01 - 04:45 PM
Sorcha 18 Jun 01 - 05:06 PM
Charley Noble 18 Jun 01 - 05:59 PM
Sorcha 18 Jun 01 - 06:00 PM
Snuffy 18 Jun 01 - 08:23 PM
Sorcha 18 Jun 01 - 08:28 PM
Snuffy 18 Jun 01 - 09:10 PM
Stewie 18 Jun 01 - 10:04 PM
pavane 19 Jun 01 - 03:15 AM
Les from Hull 19 Jun 01 - 11:49 AM
pavane 20 Jun 01 - 03:54 AM
masato sakurai 02 Dec 04 - 03:02 AM
pavane 25 Aug 08 - 10:00 AM
pavane 25 Aug 08 - 10:01 AM
Bryn Pugh 26 Aug 08 - 07:29 AM
The Walrus 27 Aug 08 - 05:14 AM
Jim Dixon 28 Aug 08 - 08:07 AM
Bert 28 Aug 08 - 10:29 AM
pavane 29 Aug 08 - 02:50 AM
pavane 29 Aug 08 - 02:51 AM
pavane 29 Aug 08 - 02:59 AM
pavane 29 Aug 08 - 03:16 AM
pavane 29 Aug 08 - 03:18 AM
pavane 29 Aug 08 - 05:04 AM
pavane 29 Aug 08 - 07:34 AM
pavane 29 Aug 08 - 07:36 AM
Jim Dixon 01 Sep 08 - 08:58 AM
pavane 02 Sep 08 - 02:04 AM
pavane 04 Sep 08 - 03:11 AM
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Subject: song in rhyming slang
From: pavane
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 07:43 AM

Trying to track down the full text and origin of a song written in rhyming slang. It starts as follows:
I was sitting one day by the Jerri-o-miah
Warming my plates of meat
When there came a rat-tat at the Rory O'More
What fair made me raspberry tart beat

There on her Todd stood a charming young maid
Her Barnett Fair blowing in the breeze
Not one dicky bird from her North & South came
But her mince pies weren't half saying 'please'

Any ideas?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song in rhyming slang
From: pavane
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 11:17 AM

Actually, thinking back, it may not be a song at all, just a poem.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song in rhyming slang
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 04:27 PM

Will someone please nibble on this, and explain the w(hole) concept!;-)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song in rhyming slang
From: pavane
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 04:45 PM

There are existing threads on rhyming slang. For Example Todd = Todd Slone. On your Todd (Slone) means alone. Barnet Fair is hair, raspberry tart in this context means heart, but more usually, raspberry means fart. Much used in old times especially in London.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song in rhyming slang
From: Sorcha
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 05:06 PM

Charley, there is a page about rhyming slang Here! Didn't look for pavane's poem, tho.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song in rhyming slang
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 05:59 PM

Thanks! I knew there was some reason to this rhyming.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song in rhyming slang
From: Sorcha
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 06:00 PM

If you do a Google Search for "rhyming slang" you'll find lots more pages about it. No luck at all with the request, tho.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song in rhyming slang
From: Snuffy
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 08:23 PM

I was sitting one day by the Jerri-o-miah [fire]
Warming my plates of meat [feet]
When there came a rat-tat at the Rory O'More [door]
What fair made me raspberry tart [heart] beat

There on her Todd [own] stood a charming young maid
Her Barnett Fair [hair]blowing in the breeze
Not one dicky bird [word] from her North & South [mouth]came
But her mince pies [eyes] weren't half saying 'please'

Unusually, here the rhyming slang is spelled out in full - common practice is to omit the rhyming bit and just give the first half. Thus for 'stairs' it would be more common to say 'apples' rather than 'apples and pears', or 'plates' rather than 'plates of meat' for feet. Part of the purpose of this sort of language is to deliberately exclude those not in the know, and omitting the rhyming bit helps in this.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song in rhyming slang
From: Sorcha
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 08:28 PM

Snuffy, where did you find that?! I'm amazed!!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song in rhyming slang
From: Snuffy
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 09:10 PM

I didn't find it anywhere, I always knowed it, Sorch.

Although it's supposed to be originally just from London, most Britishers have a passing familiarity with the more common examples of rhyming slang.

Wassail! V


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song in rhyming slang
From: Stewie
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 10:04 PM

A good example of the genre is 'Tottie', the lyrics for which have been posted in the forum:

Tottie

--Stewie.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song in rhyming slang
From: pavane
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 03:15 AM

So no-one knows the rest of the rhyme? It continues:

So I put on me titfer (Tit for tat = hat) and weasel and stoat (Coat)
and adjusted me silk Peckham Rye (tie)
A quick bowl of chalk (walk) down the old frog & toad (road)
To the rub-a-dub (pub) whence she had hied

The next verse, I only remember part of, and not sure about it anyway


called for a glass of foaming pig's ear (Beer)
That I held in me German Band (hand)
Missing line


Missing line
I said how about uncle Ned (Bed)
She flashed me her white Hampstead Heaths (Teeth) in a smile,
And 'Not Bloody Likely' She said!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song in rhyming slang
From: Les from Hull
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 11:49 AM

To further confuse you 'septics' there are even instances of doubled rhymes, such as the Cockney for arse (or ass in the transatlantc vernacular), aris. Aris = aristotle = bottle and glass = arse. Usage - 'he's only fell on 'is aris, ain't he' = he's fallen on has ass.

One of my favourites was when the Goons (BBC Radio show previously mentioned on Mudcat) had a character called Hugh Jampton. The producer wanted to know why that name, and Spike Milligan said 'He's a mate of ours, he'll be chuffed to hear his name on the radio.' Actually Hugh Jampton = Huge Hampton. Hampton Wick = prick.

As Snuffy says, most British know some rhyming slang, and some of it has come into modern usage as general slang.

Les


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song in rhyming slang
From: pavane
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 03:54 AM

How about another obscure one? Dicky Bow - bow to wear with your 'dicky' = Dicky Dirt = Shirt. But no offers for my missing lines? Not sure if heard it recited by ?Diz Disley or ?John Foreman many years ago.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song in rhyming slang
From: masato sakurai
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 03:02 AM

There're some examples (but not in full) in Julian Franklyn's The Cockney: A Survey of London Life and Language (Andre Deutsch, 1953), pp. 126-138 [chapter XXII: "Words and Music"].


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song in rhyming slang
From: pavane
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 10:00 AM

Missing line now found:

Missing line :
We drank at the jolly jack tar (bar) for a while
I said how about uncle Ned (Bed)
She flashed me her white Hampstead Heaths (Teeth) in a smile,
And 'Not Bloody Likely' She said!

There is also a missing verse, verse 2, which I will complete

I put down the glass of foaming pig ear (beer)¨
Which I held in my German Band (hand)
(line to be added)
My Dukes already to land


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song in rhyming slang
From: pavane
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 10:01 AM

Typos corrected:

I put down the glass of foaming pigs ear (beer)¨
Which I held in my German Band (hand)
(line to be added)
My Dukes all ready to land


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song in rhyming slang
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 07:29 AM

I have heard that the lengthening from "bottle & glass" = arse, 'aris (aristotle) to 'plaster' - plaster of paris, hence, "he fell on his plaster".


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song in rhyming slang
From: The Walrus
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 05:14 AM

If I might add further explanation to Pavane's post

"...My Dukes all ready to land..."

Dukes = Duke of Yorks = Forks - by extension Forks = Fingers

Dukes = Hands and (in context) = Fists
(Hence "Put up your Dukes" extended by usage to include "Duke it out")

Rhyming slang was also someimes applied to other slang terms,
For example:

Many older catters will remember the old 6d piece, the "Tanner". The name comes from the rhyming slang "Tanner and Skin" = thin
A "Thin" was a Victorian nickname for the 6d piece.

W


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song in rhyming slang
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 08:07 AM

Aylwin, Bob. A Load of Cockney Cobblers. Edinburgh: Johnston & Bacon, 1973. Only snippets are viewable at Google Book Search, but I was able to piece together this much:

...warming my plates of meat,
When there came a knock at the Rory O'More
That made me raspberry beat.

I opened the Rory and standing there
Was me one and t 'other — Ted,
Who says, "I'm back from foreign parts."
Says I, "We thought you 'brahn bread'....

[Some versions give "Anna Maria" instead of "Jeremiah". I assume that's pronounced "ma-RYE-a".]


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song in rhyming slang
From: Bert
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 10:29 AM

Dukes means 'fingers' and also fingers meant pickpockets. Female pickpockets were then called Duchesses.

As in this version of Botany Bay which is another song for your collection.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song in rhyming slang
From: pavane
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 02:50 AM

But also Duchess (of Fife) is Wife. Often shortened just to "Dutch"
"Jerry-oh-mia", I heard it.

The song in the link above seems different to the one I have on tape, though the first verse is the same. It will have to wait until we can see more of it

I was sitting one day by the Jeremiah
a-warming me plates of meat
When there came a knock at the Rory O'More
That made me raspberry beat.

I opened the Rory and standing there
Was me one and t 'other (brother) — Ted,
Who says, "I'm back from foreign parts."
Says I, "We thought you 'brahn bread' (Dead)....

I couldn't get any ore from this book either, but another search of Google Books came up with an unlikely find : a book in German on cockney slang, from 1903!

Londinismen(slang und Cant) Wörterbuch der Londoner Volkssprache

http://books.google.com/books?id=_-9ZAAAAMAAJ&q=%22mince+pies%22+please+barnet&dq=%22mince+pies%22+please+barnet&lr=&pgis=1


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song in rhyming slang
From: pavane
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 02:51 AM

It should have been blickey:

Londinismen(slang und Cant) Wörterbuch


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song in rhyming slang
From: pavane
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 02:59 AM

See here in the same book:
part of a verse


"and of Hampstead heath two rows,
In her sunny South that glistened
Like two pretty strings of pearls
Down on my bread and cheese
Did I drop and murmer "Please" ....


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song in rhyming slang
From: pavane
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 03:16 AM

OK, I have found the full view of this second song.

It is "Tottie" by G. R. Sims, from 1887

Tottie


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song in rhyming slang
From: pavane
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 03:18 AM

Sorry, that link doesn't go directly to the page. You have to search in the book for Tottie (on Page 137)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song in rhyming slang
From: pavane
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 05:04 AM

Looks like this song is quite old, Google books finds this text (Maybe in the wrong order?).

Notes and Queries
by Martim de Albuquerque - Literature - 1849

Page 203
... no difficulty in translating it :— Warming my plates of meat, When there came a knock at the Rory 0'Hours I was sitting one night nt the Anna Maria, ...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song in rhyming slang
From: pavane
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 07:34 AM

[Some versions give "Anna Maria" instead of "Jeremiah". I assume that's pronounced "ma-RYE-a".]

Yes. See A Dictionary of Rhyming Slang By Julian Franklyn 1975

http://books.google.com/books?id=9zsCIMSi-dsC&pg=PA8&lpg=PA8&dq=cockney+rory+o'more&source=web&ots=1TSS-ne5mb&sig=ikSHEl_9H47QNsadoh7w9VJ3qgI&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result#PPA32,M1>See page 32


This URL is too long for the Blicky maker, so I have had to put it in and hope


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song in rhyming slang
From: pavane
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 07:36 AM

And I got it wrong! try again

Anna Maria


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Subject: Lyr Add: TOTTIE (G. R. Sims, 1887)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 08:58 AM

Farmer, John Stephen. Musa Pedestris; Three Centuries of Canting Songs and Slang Rhymes, 1536-1896. New York: Cooper Square Pub, 1964, page 137:

TOTTIE
By "Dagonet" (G. R. Sims) in Referee, 7 Nov 1887.

1. As she walked along the street
With her little 'plates of meat' [feet]
And the summer sunshine falling
On her golden 'Barnet Fair,' [hair]
Bright as angels from the skies
Were her dark blue 'mutton pies.' [eyes]
In my 'East and West' Dan Cupid [breast]
Shot a shaft and left it there.

2. She'd a Grecian 'I suppose,' [nose]
And of 'Hampstead Heath' two rows, [teeth]
In her 'Sunny South' that glistened [mouth]
Like two pretty strings of pearl;
Down upon my 'bread and cheese' [knees]
Did I drop and murmur, 'Please
Be my "storm and strife," dear Tottie, [wife]
O, you darlingest of girls!'

3. Then a bow-wow by her side, [dog – not rhyming slang, apparently]
Who till then had stood and tried
A 'Jenny Lee' to banish, [flea]
Which was on his 'Jonah's whale,' [tail]
Gave a hydrophobia bark,
(She cried, 'What a "Noah's Ark!"') [lark]
And right through my 'rank and riches' [breeches]
Did my 'cribbage pegs' assail. [legs]

4. Ere her bull-dog I could stop
She had called a 'ginger pop' [slop = policeman]
Who said, 'What the "Henry Meville" [devil]
Do you think you're doing there?'
And I heard as off I slunk,
'Why the fellow's "Jumbo's trunk!"' [drunk]
And the 'Walter Joyce' was Tottie's [voice]
With the golden 'Barnet Fair.' [hair]


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song in rhyming slang
From: pavane
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 02:04 AM

Finally, I have the whole song: (But no title)

I was sitting one day by the Jerri-o-miah
Warming my plates of meat
When there came a rat-tat at the Rory O'More
What fair made me raspberry tart beat

So I put down the tankard of foaming pigs ear (beer)¨
Which I held in my German Band (hand)
And silently crept down the apples and pears
My Dukes all ready to land

There on her Todd Sloan stood a smashing young dame
Her Barnett Fair blowing in the breeze
Not one dicky bird from her North & South came
But her mince pies weren't half saying 'please'

So I put on me titfer (Tit for tat = hat) and weasel and stoat (Coat)
and adjusted me silk Peckham Rye (tie)
A quick bowl of chalk (walk) down the old frog & toad (road)
To the rub-a-dub (pub) whence she had hied

We drank at the jolly jack tar for a while
I said how about uncle Ned
She flashed me her white Hampstead Heaths in a smile,
And 'Not Bloody Likely' She said!


As sung by Diz Disley at The Ivy Bush, Pontardawe, c1973


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song in rhyming slang
From: pavane
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:11 AM

Summary:
1. The anonymous song sung by Disley is most likely a parody or derivative of an earlier song, as quoted in two books listed above.

2. The poem from the books is also anonymous. The first verse is the same, but the second seems to be the start of a totally different story.

3. Similar verses, e.g. Tottie, were written and published in the 1880's by George R. Sims (aka Dagonet). His best known work is Christmas Day in the Workhouse (the original, not the well known parody)

Therefore is is quite possible that he wrote the original. But no proof yet.


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