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New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?

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Murray MacLeod 13 Jun 01 - 11:26 PM
ddw 14 Jun 01 - 12:16 AM
wysiwyg 14 Jun 01 - 12:27 AM
catspaw49 14 Jun 01 - 12:33 AM
wysiwyg 14 Jun 01 - 12:35 AM
catspaw49 14 Jun 01 - 12:42 AM
wysiwyg 14 Jun 01 - 12:44 AM
Murray MacLeod 14 Jun 01 - 03:17 AM
catspaw49 14 Jun 01 - 03:56 AM
Murray MacLeod 14 Jun 01 - 06:34 AM
Fortunato 14 Jun 01 - 08:44 AM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Jun 01 - 09:10 AM
wysiwyg 14 Jun 01 - 11:50 AM
Mr Red 14 Jun 01 - 02:10 PM
GUEST,Fortunato 14 Jun 01 - 02:14 PM
GUEST,Willa 14 Jun 01 - 02:27 PM
Murray MacLeod 14 Jun 01 - 06:51 PM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Jun 01 - 08:00 PM
blt 14 Jun 01 - 09:03 PM
Murray MacLeod 14 Jun 01 - 09:14 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 14 Jun 01 - 09:48 PM
Murray MacLeod 14 Jun 01 - 10:11 PM
Jon Freeman 14 Jun 01 - 10:31 PM
wysiwyg 15 Jun 01 - 12:52 AM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 15 Jun 01 - 01:21 AM
wysiwyg 15 Jun 01 - 01:34 AM
Joe Offer 15 Jun 01 - 02:01 AM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 15 Jun 01 - 02:08 AM
Joe Offer 15 Jun 01 - 03:56 AM
Murray MacLeod 15 Jun 01 - 07:49 AM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 15 Jun 01 - 11:45 AM
MMario 15 Jun 01 - 11:54 AM
wysiwyg 15 Jun 01 - 12:09 PM
wysiwyg 15 Jun 01 - 12:22 PM
Joe Offer 16 Jun 01 - 04:51 PM
Murray MacLeod 17 Jun 01 - 12:06 AM
Joe Offer 18 Jun 01 - 12:26 AM
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Subject: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 13 Jun 01 - 11:26 PM

john in hull and I have come up between us with an idea on which we would like to get some feedback. It stemmed from john wanting to post a list of venues in Hull which support folk music, a commendable idea but as things are at present it would disappear into the Sargasso Sea of lost threads and all his efforts would be in vain.

So this is our suggestion to Max and the Joeclones. How about creating a new category called Fok Venues, which would allow all Mudcatters to post details of venues in their town which support folk music on a regular basis (different from the What's On permathread). This would not entail the administrative effort required to maintain a Permathread, and would be accessed simply by using "Folk Venues: WhichCity" in the Filter Box.

Is there any insuperable problem in instigating such a venture.? john and I both feel that over time this would become a unique and invaluable resource, especially for visitors.

Murray


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: ddw
Date: 14 Jun 01 - 12:16 AM

I think it's a great idea, Murray & John. It would be great if the category could be broken down into types of music (blues, Celtic, etc.)

The only drawback I could think of would be pubs and others spamming the site to push their businesses. But even that should be pretty easy to ride herd on if it's set up by towns.

Hope somebody picks this up and runs with it.

cheers,

david


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Jun 01 - 12:27 AM

The following ramble is just me thinking "out loud." Brainstorming with you, so to speak.

Is there a reason why you would not post this in the Mudcat LINKS section? Perhaps under the styles of music that already are categorized there?

If you post it in there as a new category, please give some thought first to how many may land there and what subdivisions would make sense to keep the pages manageable. I think the area where the venues are located would be how I would want to find them... but then you'd have a zillion new pages in there.

How about if threads were posted asking people to give information on folk venues by state or by province, etc., whatever makes sense in each country. The information would be there in the threads, but you could post a LINKS page called FOLK VENUES and then the links you'd post would be to those threads. That would keep the number of links manageable, but make the threads simple to find. You could just invite people to copy you on thread names as new ones crop up.

Mojam already has a venue list. Perhaps our effort ought to go to adding more into their list, and then we could link to them from here? If the links were at Mojam it would help people already using those resources to get bookings.

But while you are thinking it over, I could sure use some help beefing up the Folk Festival links. Would you be interested in helping me look up and edit them and list them? If so please PM and I will get a template to you of how I am entering them.

I do think the Festivals are a higher priority-- don't people already know what's going on in their own areas, and don't we need to be sure Catters know what weeks to set aside for great festivals they have never attended, where we can all meet up?

~Susan


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: catspaw49
Date: 14 Jun 01 - 12:33 AM

I think the idea is great. I'd suggest changing the "What's on" title of that Permathread to "Folk Venues/What's On?" and a listing could be included as you describe (by location) in one of the opening posts on the thread, perhaps in a chart form. Additions and corrections could be made by Bert after someone posts to the thread and the resulting post would be deleted when it was added. Additionally, the performances could be listed on the thread.

Check with Bert......Sounds like a great idea and not too hard. I'd hate to see yet another lost Permathread and your idea would round out the "Folk Venues/what's On?" thread to exactly what it should be and very easy to locate.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Jun 01 - 12:35 AM

Don't you think you might check with Bert before volunteering him to change what he is doing and, it sounds like, do more?

~S~


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: catspaw49
Date: 14 Jun 01 - 12:42 AM

Didn't I say that? The "Check with Bert" bit? It is extra work but after the initial setup I don't think it would require much extra time to keep the list updated. And if owners latch on and spam the thread, it is a thread about clubs and also a Permathread which states that posts can be deleted anytime.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Jun 01 - 12:44 AM

You did. I'm sorry. I am temporarily seeing red. And didn't realize it. Sorry. My bad.

~S~


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 14 Jun 01 - 03:17 AM

I don't see any conflict of interests here Susan. Why would posting details of Folk Venues in your town prevent anyone from posting details of a festival? And if anyone who is remotely au fait with the folk scene wants to find out about festivals in a particular area all they have to do is access the festival pages of Dirty Linen (online). But if I want to go to Tombstone AZ for the weekend, where am I supposed to look for details of live music ? Search on Google for "Tombstone, Kolk Music"? There is every chance that venues might not even have any web presence. Also, while it is true that (long-term) residents of a city will know where the venues are, new arrivals and visitors may not, and it exactly for such that the information would be provided.

I wondered about a Permathread too Spaw, but I honestly don't see how it would work, incorporated into a single thread unless it were arranged alphabetically by town, and that seems to me to be a hell of a lot of extra work for Bert.

My suggestion would mean absolutely NO additional work, apart from what is involved in setting up a new category and letting people know that Mudcat is actively seeking input. It would also serve as a two-way information flow, someone wanting to visit a city could initiate the thread FolkVenues:WhichCity or a resident of the city could volunteer the information, as john wants to do for Hull.

Also, doing it my way would enable prospective visitors to "get the flavor" of the place, as people would be sure to write in and give their opinions on certain venues. This would be more valuable than just a bald listing of venue, weekday, time.

Just realized I committed a malapropism in the initial post btw, "instigate" should of course have read "implement"

Murray


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: catspaw49
Date: 14 Jun 01 - 03:56 AM

AS long as the prefix is always used (or added by a joeclone and the thread title includes only the info and no cutesy stuff........Otherwise it's harder to locate. I had tried a few years ago to consolidate some guitar info in that way and the lack of consistency wasn't good.

Inevitably too, someone will post a thread asking where to go in East Bumfuck and someone will link the thread....good so far. But then ten other people will post the info on that thread and the whole idea gets diluted. That's inevitable as I said. What is really important in using your approach Murray is to be sure the consistency is there in the titling process.

"FOLK VENUES;East Bumfuck, Nunavit" instead of
"Great Folkie Joint in the Hinterlands"

Spaw


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 14 Jun 01 - 06:34 AM

I agree 100% Spaw, and that is why I think we have to have a new "Folk Venues" category added, to make it both easy and foolproof for both the contributor and the searcher.

Murray


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: Fortunato
Date: 14 Jun 01 - 08:44 AM

Marvelous idea and resource for all of us. Good on you.

Chance


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Jun 01 - 09:10 AM

Of course there'd be all the infighting about what counts as a folk venue...

I think this kind of thing works best decentralised, and that more people should set up websites about folk in their own patch, which I've been doing myself for some time. Then maybe some kind of index of the sites on the Mudcat would make sense, and the hassle of keeping things up to date would be up to the people running the local websites, and some of them would be very reliable and others wouldn't, but that's life.


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Jun 01 - 11:50 AM

Oops, we're trying to herd wet cats again. People are going to do what they want. That's why this Mudcat is unlike other sites.

I can always tell when it's the "wet cats" thing again because right away we start arguing about what we all ought to do, when the first point about Mudcat is that no one ever does what others think we all ought to do. It would be UnMudcatly.

I withdraw my previous posts. I thought I was thinking together with ya but I see now that's not what we were doing at all.

Sorry! *G*

If you have an idea, DO IT. Don't wait for others to agree (or assume they will), or to help, or work together. If it's a good idea, do it, and they will. If it's not quite the right idea for the situation, do it anyway, and it will not get much support, and that's OK too.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Jun 01 - 02:10 PM

cresby.com for the Mid West of England

My solution is to shamelessly plug (at many opportunities) a rather excellent site run by a shy modest redcatter...... oh whatagiveaway!!!!


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: GUEST,Fortunato
Date: 14 Jun 01 - 02:14 PM

Well, it seemed like a good idea...

I like the idea of sharing local venues/folk clubs/festivals around the world. Those of us who can travel occasionally, or who might want to perform in another state or country would find it invaluable. Mcgrath has a point in that local lists are perhaps more manageable, but not everyone can put up a fine site like his. If it can be done here, where thousands pass through, the network of folk performance and community could benefit greatly.



chance


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: GUEST,Willa
Date: 14 Jun 01 - 02:27 PM

WYSIWYG Have you already got the Europe and Britain festivals index? Address is www.froots.demon.co.uk/festivals


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 14 Jun 01 - 06:51 PM

Well. no insuperable objections so far.

Susan, I am not exactly sure what you mean by "just do it" You want me to hack into shorty and set up a new category? I don't think so. But if there is no new Folk Venues category set up, then the idea is a dead duck. Or perhaps you think I should search back through every thread for mentions of a venue and post a link in the Links section? Yeah, right. I don't think so.

I am confident that enough people would post to this category to make it worth while. After all look how many "Lyr.Add" threads there are, and many more people have venue information to share than have a new song to share. And let me reiterate once more, THIS WOULD ENTAIL NO ADDITIONAL WORK FOR ANYONE !

McGrath, I fail to see why a amorphous conglomeration of linked sites would work better than what I am suggesting, when the infrastructure already exists at Mudcat to accomplish the objective far more efficiently. It's all very well to suggest that more people should run websites, maybe they should, but many more people are able and willing to post a thread on Mudcat than are able to maintain a website.

I am also convinced that there are many "lurkers" (God I hate that word) out there who are perhaps too shy to make their initial post to Mudcat, but who would welcome the chance to make a real and valuable contribution to the Forum, rather than going down the "BS: What color knickers does your granny wear ?" road.

All that is needed is an additional Folk Venues category. I would be perfectly willing to draft a list of suggestions and guidelines for contributors and keep it refreshed daily. As Spaw pointed out, thread titling consistency would be of the essence.

Murray


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Jun 01 - 08:00 PM

The point I'm making is that "folk venues" in my experience means mostly semi-formal sessions in pubs and so forth, and they come and they go, and change the nights they happen on and so forth.

I very much doubt if the Mudcat has the infrastructure to gather and check that kind of information and keep it up to date. It'd be a lot more complicated than just lists of festivals or established clubs.

It's a very simple thing setting up a website and putting in the information that's on the grapevine locally. A lot easier than running a newsletter.

What might be practical would be to have a list of web resources like this - by country/region/district in with the Mudcat resource, like the list of Mudcatters localities. It probably wouldn't get them all, and would be dependent on people sending in the URL of sites of this kind which they were running, or which they'd come across.


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: blt
Date: 14 Jun 01 - 09:03 PM

I began a thread very similar to this a few weeks ago, titled Folk Venue Directory. Only 3 people responded so I didn't pursue the idea further, but it does appear that more than 4 people are interested in creating such a listing. I've wondered if this information is kept secret for a reason--some may prefer to keep their folk sanctuaries to themselves--but such information would be of interest to me because of traveling around, because I look for small cafes and clubs to play in, and because folk clubs are simply too cool for words. I don't have a clue about the techical expertise needed to set up such a project but encourage anyone who does to go forward with pride.

blt


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 14 Jun 01 - 09:14 PM

Let me explain one more time what it is I am proposing, since there is obviously some confusion out there.

First of all, "Mudcat" doesn't have to do do ANYTHING other than supplying a new category called Folk Venues. By "Category", I mean the list of optional prefixes which you can choose when you are creating a new thread. We already have :

Lyric Request
Lyric Add
Lyric and Chords Request
Tune Request
Tune Add
Public Help Question
BS

My suggestion is that there be another category which would be called Folk Venues, so now the menu would look like this:

Lyric Request
Lyric Add
Lyric and Chords Request
Tune Request
Tune Add
Public Help Question
BS
Folk Venues

All clear so far?

Now, when somebody wants to initiate a thread regarding the whereabouts of folk music in any particular town, lets say for the sake of argument in Homestead , Florida he/she would create a New Thread, select from the menu the optional prefix Folk Venues, follow it with Florida, Homestead. So now the New Thread appears on the Forum screen as :

Folk Venues :Florida, Homestead

The first message might read

Hi I am staying in Homestead on Friday 13th on my way to Key West. Any good music venues, maybe a chance to play?

Thanks

Kevin Mcgrath

The second message might read:

Hi Kevin, why don't you look into the Main Street Cafe, on Krome Avenue. They have a really good Open Mike there every Friday at 8.00 pm, you would be more than welcome. For further details call 305-245-7575

Murray

OK, after a couple of days this message will drift off the screen but at any time in the future, anyone who is planning a joirney through Homestead simply has to enter in the Filter Box on the Front page "Folk Venues, Florida, Homestead", set the filter for three years and bingo, the info is there. If the information has changed in the meantime, then the original supplier of the information would (one would hope) update it. But in any event a contact telephone no. would have to be included.

Now, imagine this multiplied thousands of times, for every town in the US and the UK. It would take a long time for the database to grow but, hey, I got time, so do you. Eventually it would become the most comprehensive folk listing in the world. And the beauty is, it needs no work, just the good will of Mudcat members, and as we know there is plenty of that.

Maybe the idea is too simple to work, I will try and see if I can come up with something much more complicated, perhaps then it will attract more interest.

Murray


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 14 Jun 01 - 09:48 PM

Thought it was about time to say something,sorry Im a bit late (ive just got back from work).I was takling to Murray a couple of days ago and he gave me some very helpful advice on how to improve my messages etc,we both noticed that recently loads of people asking "where can I find folk music in NAME OF PLACE".So we wondered if we could do something to help people,another thing is I went to York a few weeks ago for a car auction(I buy & sell cars as a sideline to my main occupation),when I got there I wondered if there was any folk on anywhere,Im sure this has happened to other people.Me and Murray,or is it Murray and I! think it would be helpful for visitors etc if there was a list for each big city.I have done the one for Hull I just dont know where to put it.Maybe other people could do one for their city,its just a suggestion if most people dont like it thats ok.Sorry its not more complicated,Im too daft for complicated things.john:-)


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 14 Jun 01 - 10:11 PM

I was being sardonic there John, when I wrote about devising something more complicated. Some people spend their lives figuring out reasons why something won't work, no matter what the idea is. This, however, can and will work.

Murray


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 14 Jun 01 - 10:31 PM

Does anyone know what the difference between using a category and typing it in the subject field is (i.e. does Max just combine the 2 to create one text subject field)?

Jon


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Jun 01 - 12:52 AM

(Certain words in the following are capped not to indicate emphasis or emotion, but becasue they are the names of certain Mudcat features.)

What I am recalling is that there are often ideas coming along for new prefixes for threads, and people saying "Max ought to make it like this" or "that," while we don't all use the ones we have, and never will, because the program doesn't reject un-prefixed titles, and aren't you glad of that really?

My suggestion was to put them in the LINKS section instead of in the threads because the LINKS don't fall off the page or have to be fetched, they are just there. It is an under-utilized feature of Mudcat. And the really nice thing is, we can edit things in the LINKS pages for ourselves... if a venue changes, by closing, moving, changing format, or changing a web or e-mail address, we can take it out or fix it without asking a volunteer to do it, and thus we are not stuck with outdated listings that will make people nuts in a year or two's time. Remember, threads are forever, but little else is.

You would not have to go search up old threads.... you would solicit new ones by example and catch the links to those threads as they are created. You'd be the volunteer(s) who care enough to set the thread word filter on your prefix or the word VENUE, and the list filter for, say, seven days' worth of threads in case you had missed a few; then you'd paste the URLs to venue-type threads into LINKS. It's real easy in fact to do that. Now you have visible data.

The titling and management of these however you do it will be a monster, and that's why I recommended looking at Mojam. It will give you stuff in an hour's radius of the location you specify. Just imagine having it in threads though.... Say I am going to Chicago. The metro area is huge. Am I going to be willing to drive from one suburb to another? Yes. Some of them. I know the area well enough to know which.... But I would have to see the names to choose from.... I might be one town over from someone I am dying to see and never know it because there are too many suburbs to search by name... now, if a thread or LINKS listing says Chicago Area Venues, I'll go see it. But no.... the one I want was titled that day as "FV: Doc Watson in Bungee." Bungee has about twelve people in it... I'd never think of seaching on Bungee!! (There ain't any Bungee in Chicago, BTW, I borried it from PA for an example.)

But my suggestion of JUST DO IT is that you can start using it right now, as a thread prefix, by typing it in. And see if it works like you hope it will, or if there will be problems... testing the water, see, before desiging a system based on how you think it will work, when it actually works some other way.

See if anyone follows suit for a certain period of time to see if the idea is worth asking Max to make the change. For example for a few days people were using POL to indicate political arguments. I mean attempts at discussion. You know. THREADS. It didn't catch on. (I liked it... I was going to set up a filter to exclude them like we can filter out BS threads. So I was sad it didn't fly, and sure enough I got my panties in a wad by falling into one I wish I could have filtered out.)

But the ideas here assume people will go along.... and that is something that seldom happens here at Mudcat. Look at What's On.... are people using it?

We had FYI/NEWS for a couple of days too. Maybe it will come back. It was too long but it was a good effort.

So how about piloting your idea now with a couple of FV threads and see what happens? And BTW you will want to abbreviate it--- FOLK VENUES will take up most of your title space, which is limited to a certain length so thread titles fit WebTV.

I really don't care how you resolve your idea, you know-- it is after all your idea. I just don't appreciate you assuming I am trying to be mean about it. I just don't see enough of what YOU will do compared to what you assume OTHERS will do. And Mudcat is not the only place where I have learned that things don't actually work that way, even with the best ideas.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 15 Jun 01 - 01:21 AM

Susan-Thank you for your comments,personally I think Murrays idea is the best,its easier for everyone,we could just start using Folk Venues as a prefix,obviously this is just my opinion and I havnt been here very long so will go along with whatever the majority thinks.
BTW I am using WEB TV myself, there is NO restriction on the amount of characters I can enter into the subject box.


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Jun 01 - 01:34 AM

JiH, The restriction is at the Mudcat end, on the number of characters that can be entered, for thread names. Not the subject lines in posts... the titling of the threads. I think it was Joe Offer who told me the limit was calculated based on the way WebTV displays material. When you create a new thread, the text bnox for the title it will only take a certain number of characters and then it will stop accepting typed text till you delete some. The prefixes, would, I believe, all have to be pretty short, no longer than the ones Max has set up, or the thread list display would be messed up. So FV, or maybe VENUES, would work, but FOLK VENUES would probably not. I mean, to try out the idea you could of course use FOLK VENUES, because you can type in whatever you like, but then you will not have room for much more to make sense out of the thread-- "FOLK VENUES, East Birmingham Area" would take it all up I think. No room to say if this would be Birmingham in the UK, and which county or country, or if in the USA and which state, and so forth. So to keep as much title space as possible you want as short a prefix as will be recognized. And if you hope for a new prefix from Max, make the practice one the one it will be later so people don't get mixed up.

~S~


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Jun 01 - 02:01 AM

I've been trying to clean out the Links page because there are over 500 links there and the page takes forever to load. I've moved a number of the links into PermaThreads on various topis. So no, I don't think we need yet another huge quantity of links added to the Links page.

If you want a new category, start using it and see if it catches on. Once we're satisfied that it works well, we can ask Max to add it to the list of thread categories (if there's a need for it). If you like, I can add a piece on proposed/experimental/whatever thread categories to the FAQ. I don't think we should add it to the dropdown list of categories right away - we have too many already, and some are confusing or never get used.
I'm not all that sure a category is needed - why not let the person who wants information title the thread they way they want it?

A PermaThread with folk venue information might be a good idea - let's talk about it.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 15 Jun 01 - 02:08 AM

Thanks Joe


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Jun 01 - 03:56 AM

...got interrupted by a phone call.
Anyhow, if somebody wants to take the lead on running a PermaThread, they're welcome to do so. There are links to the PermaThreads in the FAQ and in the PermaThread index, so you can get an idea what we do with them. Somebody starts a thread with a message that this is a PermaThread and is subject to editing. Ideally, the first 6 to 10 messages posted are blank, posted quickly by the person moderating the PermaThread. Information is then posted by Mudcatters in subsequent messages, which are then incorporated into the beginning messages and deleted. I or one of the JoeClones will do the editing work according to the wishes of the person moderating the thread.

-Joe Offer-
John in Hull - Max designed the data entry boxes so that they would be narrow enough so they'd fit into WEBTV without doubling over. Because Max was smart enough to accommodate it, WEBTV works pretty well with Mudcat - but those accommodations have sometimes caused some limits on the size of things - and it makes things smaller than we computer users need to have it. I blessed Max time and time again over the past three weeks, when my only Mudcat access was on my dad's WEBTV. It worked pretty well.


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 15 Jun 01 - 07:49 AM

The problem with one Permathread with information about folk venues is that it is just not searchable. How many towns are there in the USA and the UK which have a venue supporting folk music in one way or another? Thousands, maybe tens of thousands. How do you access the information you require regarding one particular town in a Permathread? Keep scrolling down hoping you might find something? Or have a volunteer constantly rearranging the information in alphabetical order? I don't think so.

The reason we need a new prefix is simply to make searching a simpler and more effective exercise. At present, there are hundreds of threads out there which contain valuable information about venues, but how do you find them? I can remember at least four separate requests for information about pubs in Edinburgh, and the same information gets churned out again and again.

Joe, your suggestion that I start a prefix and see if it catches on is a non-starter. I mean, I am just not presumptuous enough to say to somebody who starts a thread titled "BS: Any good Folk Pubs in Brooklyn?", "Excuse me, but would you please retitle your thread "FV: NY: Brooklyn" . What gives me the right to say that to anybody ? If, however, there were an official prefix indicating that Mudcat sanctioned it, then I would have no hesitation.

Information is of no value unless it can be accessed and accessed efficiently. All I am doing is suggesting an efficient method for storing this information, a method which requires NO ADDITIONAL WORK from ANYBODY.

Murray


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 15 Jun 01 - 11:45 AM

Murray-I sent you a private message about this, did you get it ok, or did I press the wrong button again? (It mentioned smoking in folk clubs).john


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: MMario
Date: 15 Jun 01 - 11:54 AM

within a single thread you can always use "find" from your browser - usually searches pretty well unless you are using a keyword that is part of a lot of common words.


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Jun 01 - 12:09 PM

Let's test this. If it works, let's add our venues to it.

CLICK HERE.

They're international but I am still looking at how to access information for outside the US. I may need a new cookie to do it-- maybe one of you UK folks can look at it too.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Jun 01 - 12:22 PM

And try this (link may not work):

FORM TO ADD VENUE.

~S~


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Jun 01 - 04:51 PM

Murray, Everything is searchable with SuperSearch (identified on the Forum Menu as Digitrad and ForumSearch). I can also very easily put an index at the top of any PermaThread, just like I have on the FAQ. But let's give your category thing a try.
Here's what I'd suggest: point out a number of threads that have to do fit folk venues, and I'll rename the thread and add the Folk Venue designation. We can also have a PermaThread to index the threads, and to give summary information. If it works and proves popular over a number of months, THEN we'll ask Max to add a category to the dropdown list. The idea is to handle things as much as possible with the resources we have available to us, without bugging Max to come up with new permanent resources.
It's no big deal to change a thread title - Pene and I and Jeri and Jon Freeman can do it in a moment.
One thing - I hate the idea of having thread category designators that are not understandable to visitors. "Folk Venue" or "Venue" is OK, but "FV" makes me gag.
-Joe Offer, acronymophobe-


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 17 Jun 01 - 12:06 AM

OK, Joe, you're on. I don't mind doing the searching, however I have to confess that I am practically an HTML virgin. I can just about do line breaks, so I guess I have to learn blue clickies now. Oh well, look out HTML prctice thread, here I come. (But not tonight .........)

Murray


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Subject: RE: New 'Folk Venues ' Category ?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 12:26 AM

No need for clickies, Murray - just copy the URLs and paste them into a message here or in a personal message to me.
If I want to copy the URL for this thread, I point to the address bar on my browser and click until it turns blue. Then I right-click and select "copy." Then I point to where I want to put the URL, and right-click and select "paste."
When I'm on the Internet, I almost always have two browser windows open. You can open a new window from your browser's "file" mene, from the keyboard shortcut CTRL-N, or by right-clicking a link and selecting "open in new window."
-Joe Offer-


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