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Doc Watson

DigiTrad:
DEEP RIVER BLUES


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Gypsy 18 Feb 01 - 12:40 AM
Murray MacLeod 18 Feb 01 - 12:43 AM
Sorcha 18 Feb 01 - 12:49 AM
GUEST,khandu 18 Feb 01 - 04:54 AM
Lepus Rex 18 Feb 01 - 07:38 AM
Dharmabum 18 Feb 01 - 08:08 AM
Midchuck 18 Feb 01 - 08:51 AM
Peter T. 18 Feb 01 - 10:26 AM
GUEST, WYS 18 Feb 01 - 10:59 AM
DADGBE 18 Feb 01 - 11:21 PM
Caleb 19 Feb 01 - 12:11 AM
GUEST, WYSIWYG 19 Feb 01 - 12:26 AM
Kim C 19 Feb 01 - 10:25 AM
Big Tim 19 Feb 01 - 11:46 AM
GUEST,Fortunato 19 Feb 01 - 03:06 PM
Gypsy 19 Feb 01 - 05:46 PM
Wesley S 19 Feb 01 - 05:50 PM
Jim the Bart 19 Feb 01 - 05:54 PM
blt 20 Feb 01 - 04:00 AM
Mrrzy 20 Feb 01 - 09:42 AM
Gypsy 22 Feb 01 - 11:48 PM
GUEST,re:Folk and the Doc 23 Feb 01 - 03:46 PM
wysiwyg 23 Feb 01 - 06:56 PM
Gypsy 24 Feb 01 - 12:25 AM
GUEST,Byrdman 24 Feb 01 - 11:23 AM
wysiwyg 24 Feb 01 - 11:27 AM
Gypsy 25 Feb 01 - 12:26 AM
GUEST,Dale Grider 22 Aug 08 - 10:05 AM
Wesley S 22 Aug 08 - 11:00 AM
topical tom 22 Aug 08 - 11:23 AM
Jayto 22 Aug 08 - 11:26 AM
john f weldon 22 Aug 08 - 12:19 PM
Murray MacLeod 22 Aug 08 - 01:36 PM
Jayto 22 Aug 08 - 01:50 PM
Fortunato 22 Aug 08 - 01:53 PM
GUEST,Dale Grider 22 Aug 08 - 02:05 PM
GUEST,Dale Grider 22 Aug 08 - 02:18 PM
olddude 22 Aug 08 - 02:21 PM
Jayto 22 Aug 08 - 02:47 PM
GUEST,Dale Grider 22 Aug 08 - 04:48 PM
Stringsinger 22 Aug 08 - 07:45 PM
Arkie 22 Aug 08 - 11:20 PM
Kampervan 23 Aug 08 - 02:40 AM
GUEST,Dale Grider 24 Aug 08 - 11:23 PM
Jayto 25 Aug 08 - 12:28 AM
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Subject: Doc Watson
From: Gypsy
Date: 18 Feb 01 - 12:40 AM

I am so stoked. I saw Watson, Grisman, and Jackson on stage last night. Didn't get home till 3:00 am, but it was sure worth it. I cannot believe the energy, and talent of these men. Doc is 78 years old, with a birthday coming up 3 March. Any local 'Catters, he will be performing in San Francisco on Wednesday. Anyone who has a chance, GO SEE THEM! Such a treat. To think, when I am in my late 70's, to be still playing and having fun with friends. What more can you want out of life?


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Subject: RE: BS: Doc Watson
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 18 Feb 01 - 12:43 AM

Amen to that

Murray


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Subject: RE: BS: Doc Watson
From: Sorcha
Date: 18 Feb 01 - 12:49 AM

Gypsy, not a dod dammed thing. That is what I want for my Last Day, and I wish it for the Doc too. I have seen him live, and I only hope he can continue until he leaves us OnStage, doing what he loves to do. I only hope it can come true for him......he has done it for so long, that if he ever cannot do it, it will be a Great Tragedy, for him and for all of us.


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Subject: RE: BS: Doc Watson
From: GUEST,khandu
Date: 18 Feb 01 - 04:54 AM

Gypsy, BS and Doc Watson do not belong in the same sentence. I envy you. I have never seen him on stage. But he has caused the blood to race through my veins many a day. Great Musician!

khandu


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Subject: RE: BS: Doc Watson
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 18 Feb 01 - 07:38 AM

I'm still bummed that I missed a chance to see Doc Watson last year... Had the tickets right in front of me, but had a vacation that weekend... At least the vacation was good, though. :)

---Lepus Rex


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Subject: RE: BS: Doc Watson
From: Dharmabum
Date: 18 Feb 01 - 08:08 AM

I've had the privilege of seeing Doc a number of times over the years, & I've never seen a show that didn't impress me.
For anyone in the N.C.area in April check this out,
www.merlefest.org I had a great time there last year.Wish I could make it this year.

DB.


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Subject: RE: BS: Doc Watson
From: Midchuck
Date: 18 Feb 01 - 08:51 AM

I've always thought it was dumb to come in on a thread just to say "I agree," but I can't think of any wiseass remark for this one.

Peter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Doc Watson
From: Peter T.
Date: 18 Feb 01 - 10:26 AM

"Doc Watson plays the guitar just like it was water running through his hands." - Bob Dylan.


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Subject: RE: BS: Doc Watson
From: GUEST, WYS
Date: 18 Feb 01 - 10:59 AM

like it was water running through his hands...

... and right into our hearts.

And hopefully, on to others.

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: Doc Watson
From: DADGBE
Date: 18 Feb 01 - 11:21 PM

Doc's guitar playing is some of the most stellar picking anywhere, but I love his banjo playing and his traditional singing even more. His guitar work, while superb, is stage oriented. His other music sounds and feels more like a sharing of his personal heritage. May he live forever!


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Subject: RE: BS: Doc Watson
From: Caleb
Date: 19 Feb 01 - 12:11 AM

Never heard that Dylan quote before,; that's good. Signed up for the Mudcat some time ago, but I think i've been smartin' since the election, and haven't had a word to say. But Arthel Watson is another story. Doc is the glue that kept me a folkie through all the early years of my teens and twenties when I learned about singing, harp playing and hacking at a guitar. Ended up as an old-time musician, but never had a chance to sit across from him and play with him, which would be bliss.

Everytime I see a Doc thread I worry that it's bad news or something...

When I was seventeen I had all those Vanguard records, and then I went off to college and a guy in my dorm could flatpick damn well, and we would sing Way Downtown, Tennessee Stud, Froggie Went A Courtin', etc. The psydchedelic era ensued, but I hung on, and one time when I was a senior, an early version of Portable Folk Festival came through campus, and Doc was on the bill, and I was assigned to hang out with and put up John Jackson, the great and fine Tidewater fingerpicker. Saturday, after dinner and before the show, the performers hung out in the big campus performance room, and Doc and John Jackson sat back in a quiet corner and talked, caught up, you might say, as I sat near...and that was a moment let me tell you, people, and I have seen some good folk workshops up close in my time.

My music interests diverged into blues and Celtic, and then in the early Eighties I ended up in a string band. Everytime we play Seneca Square Dance or Wild Bill Jones I think of Doc, and how I still can't get down 'Miss the Mississipi and You.' Every recording of Doc should be cherished. A North Carolina legacy, and a testament to all that is good and true in music and in life.

I was in a rowdy eastern CT club in the late Seventies, I think Bromberg was the opener, and Doc came out with Merle and the bass player M. Coleman, and lots of reefer was making the rounds and the ceilings were low, and Doc admonished the assembled throng about that funny weed, and how it mignt burn some folks' eyes. The whole place was cowed, and intent, through Doc's set, especially quiet in the wake of the rockin' folk/blues that had preceded him. Powerful dude.

What can I say: Dylan said it all about that picking, but what a voice, and a clear straight-shooter....Doc Watson.

Sorry for the long-winded post, kinda pent up I guess, takes a Doc song to kick it out...love oh love oh careless love....


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Subject: RE: BS: Doc Watson
From: GUEST, WYSIWYG
Date: 19 Feb 01 - 12:26 AM

Caleb! Don't you ever let me catch you apologizing for a long post again! Thaks for taking me along on that little trip back in the past... it was wonderful.

I "found" Doc through the music that had flowed out of him into people like you. Their sets always had a few pieces that just made me so happy; they'd start that picking style up, and I'd be gone, instantly. Once I realized where they'd "gotten" it, I ventured into vinyl and soon after had the privilege of seeing Doc, Merle, and T Michael Coleman several times.

My challenge piece was "Talk About Sufferin", and I had to find a way to make it my own, as you must with "Miss the..." That is, after all, one of Doc's bigger lessons-- take into yourself the music you love so much that you have to make it your own, and then go for it with all the joy each day brings you.

Welcome to the Mudcat!

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Doc Watson
From: Kim C
Date: 19 Feb 01 - 10:25 AM

Doc is AWESOME. Mister and I saw him here in Nashville a few years back. I mean, what else can you say?

Several years ago on a road trip we happened upon a radio interview with Doc. He said his family never treated him any different on account of his blindness. He still had to do chores like all the other kids.

He's just the best.


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Subject: RE: BS: Doc Watson
From: Big Tim
Date: 19 Feb 01 - 11:46 AM

Glad to hear the good Doc is still going strong. Life don't get tedious with him around.


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Subject: RE: BS: Doc Watson
From: GUEST,Fortunato
Date: 19 Feb 01 - 03:06 PM

If it weren't for the mighty Doc, then I'd of quite this trying business and took up a less demanding avocation long ago. But he's always out there, setting a standard you can't turn away from or reach.


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Subject: RE: BS: Doc Watson
From: Gypsy
Date: 19 Feb 01 - 05:46 PM

He has such amazing selection of songs and tunes. I expected the old time, the blue grass, but i ask you, The Moody Blues? Yep, he told the story, then sang Nights in White Satin. Sez he got the CD for Christmas.


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Subject: RE: BS: Doc Watson
From: Wesley S
Date: 19 Feb 01 - 05:50 PM

Dang - I sure hope I get to see Doc before I shed this mortal coil. When I watch him I'm fooled into thinking "I could do that". He makes it look that effortless.


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Subject: RE: BS: Doc Watson
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 19 Feb 01 - 05:54 PM

None better ever. Period.


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Subject: RE: BS: Doc Watson
From: blt
Date: 20 Feb 01 - 04:00 AM

I saw Doc Watson at a festival in Arkansas in the early 70s, when I was living in Columbia, MO. I think he was playing with Merle at the time, but I have to admit my memory is not the clearest about this particular festival, except I remember there was a thunderstorm and then incredible mud.

I have tried to learn flatpicking ever since, and I am still--and will always be--in complete awe of Doc's skill. Happy Birthday, Doc Watson.

blt


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Subject: RE: BS: Doc Watson
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Feb 01 - 09:42 AM

Doc is the best, and I too worry every time I see a thread about him... but I bet that there is probably one thing he'd like more than being old and still playing - and that's Merle.


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Subject: RE: BS: Doc Watson
From: Gypsy
Date: 22 Feb 01 - 11:48 PM

That's right. Can't imagine a greater pain. But am still stoked at the energy of the man. Friend that i went to concert with, later bought me a Watson/Grisman/Lawrence cd. The fools had none for sale at Luther Burbank!


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Subject: RE: BS: Doc Watson
From: GUEST,re:Folk and the Doc
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 03:46 PM

The only time I ever seen him Live, NC some years ago, he was playing Guitar. My friend that day had never heard of the Doc before I brought him to he Festival. He was very impressed and got to talk to the Doc as well, after the show on a side stage ended.

I guess the Doc was always for me about a life style, and his singing of Old Timey Gospel is a great idea. I know exactly what the writer had in mind who mentions the straight shooting.

There are millions of folk all over the world who were introduced to folk by the Doc, and many would never have bothered except for the gentle laughter in the Doc's music. I always wondered what that old Hound who sat on a thorn actually did?

Grandma Green and the Doc. Mee too. It makes ya different, like biscuits and gravy :0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Doc Watson
From: wysiwyg
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 06:56 PM

Oh I dunno, I understood from some quotes I read that he was pretty relaxed about hooking up with Merle in the sweet by and by. When you know you are going to do that-- once the immediate loss has been encompassed-- it is possible to remain pretty perky about the whole of eternity. I've seen it among parishioners, especially the very old ones who have generally lived the lives they felt called to live. Our landlord was like that, about his own anticipated dying, and his widow is like that now.

Doc has such a strong spirit-- if he wanted to lay down and die, I imagine he could and would. I think he's too full of joy for life to want to do that.

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: Doc Watson
From: Gypsy
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 12:25 AM

That's right...there comes a time when graduation is a blessing, not to be feared. But am glad that Doc chooses to share his joy with us for the now


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Subject: RE: BS: Doc Watson
From: GUEST,Byrdman
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 11:23 AM

There is nothing I could possibly add to what's already been said about Doc Watson except this:

Before we lose one or the other of them, somebody needs to get Doc and B.B. King in a recording studio! Can you even imagine the CD?


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Subject: RE: BS: Doc Watson
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 11:27 AM

Another case exposed-- twins, separated at birth!

Fortunately Doc and BB have so MANY twins. If you put them all together in one womb, who'd be there, and what would they be jammin'???

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Doc Watson
From: Gypsy
Date: 25 Feb 01 - 12:26 AM

Oh yeah! Great idea! Need to let them know that they gotta do this, and then do a tour. Preferably, where i could go!


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Subject: RE: Doc Watson and Ol Hoss
From: GUEST,Dale Grider
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 10:05 AM

Being a big Doc Watson fan I just naturally wanted a Gallagher guitar. Well I got one, and a dandy, a Doc Watson model with the cutaway. It's a guitar with a bit of history too as it was a first prize from a flatpick contest at one of the Merlefests. This is a loud and well balanced instrument with that characteristic bell like tone of the GALLAGHERS.

Well, I wanted another! So I decided to take the trip to Wartrace and meet both Stephen (3d generation!) and his dad Don, to pick one out from guitars in stock there at "the source". LORDY!, the first thing they handed me to play was Ol' Hoss! Yes, this historic first Gallagher that Doc used on the Circle album and all the Flying Fish recordings and concerts from 1969 until 1975 still plays and sounds unbelievable. They have it there at the shop now. To hold it and see the wear on the finish and scars etc really revealed to me how much time Doc spent(Ds)behind the guitar. There was literally no finish on the back of the neck! And I was aware at the time of playing this guitar that from 1975 till present the guitar has been in the Country Music Hall of Fame so I knew it was somewhat frozen in time right at the point Doc retired it.

Well after playing Ol Hoss, I tried about 10 Gallagers (since they wouldn't let me pick Ol Hoss)and with that sound in my ears and feel in my fingers I picked one to take home that was like a sibling, and named him "Little Hoss".

It's a 71 Special with Rosewood and a Sitka Top that has a little quilted wave against the grain.

Am I on a cloud??? ...Yeah I reckon so!

Dale:)


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Subject: RE: Doc Watson
From: Wesley S
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 11:00 AM

I would think so. A great story - Thanks.


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Subject: RE: Doc Watson
From: topical tom
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 11:23 AM

A flat-picking wizard and a great singer.I first saw Doc and his son Merle at the Newport Folk Festival of 1984 and was thrilled by their performance.Doc can make any song sound good with his easygoing, friendly style.His "patter" during blues songs is well-done too.I wish many more years to this true icon of folk music so that yet many more people will have the joy and thrill of seeing and hearing him.


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Subject: RE: Doc Watson
From: Jayto
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 11:26 AM

When I was 18 yrs old I was at the Chet Atkins Appreciation Society convention in Nashville Tennessee. I was walking down a hallway and heard this unreal guitar playing coming from a room with the door cracked open. I peeped inside and it was Doc Watson. I walked in and said hi. He was very polite and started talking to me as if he knew me. He was waiting for someone to come and get him when it was time for him to perform. I remember he was playing Windy and Warm. I told him how much I loved that song. He asked me if I had a guitar with me. I told I did I had put it by the door when I walked in. He told me to grab it and he would teach it to me. He liked the idea of a young guy wanting to learn folk and bluegrass. I jumped up like a rocket and ran to my guitar. He taught me Windy and Warm with total patience. He was so nice and down to Earth. After we had been playing for a little bit another guy walked in carrying a guitar case. He said hi to Doc and Doc called him by name so he knew this guy. The man put the guitar case down and opened it. Inside was a custom made guitar that was an exact duplicate of Jimmy Rodger's guitar. Doc picked it up and told me that the guy had made it for him. Doc hit a licks and strummed a few chords and commented on how nice it was. Then he started changing the strings. He told me he always changed the strings on a new guitar. He didn't explain why but he said he always did on all of his guitars. He took off the Big E string and I couldn't resist I asked him if he was going to throw it away. He said he was so I asked if I could have it as a keepsake from the day. He laughed and said sit was fine with him. He said I could have them all if I wanted but by this time others were in the room and they made a grab for the rest. I did get the Big E string and a song. I am 35 now and I still play Windy and Warm all the time. I think of Doc and that day everytime I play it. I recently started recording a CD and Windy and Warm was the first song I put down for the CD. I love the song but after that it took on a whole new level of fondness for me.


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Subject: RE: Doc Watson
From: john f weldon
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 12:19 PM

In the mid-to-late sixties, the good Doctor was a regular visitor to Montreal, and one of my favourites. Moyse Hall, once & the Back Door Coffee House & I guess other places as well. Aside from the great playing, singing etc., he was a terrific stage presence, amiable and an excellent sense of humour. Lots of variety, too. In between the folkie stuff, he'd throw in a little rock & roll, a bit of jazz, and some strange show tunes.

One of his odder appearances is on a vinyl LP, Roger Sprung's Progressive Bluegrass, which I greatly love.


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Subject: RE: Doc Watson
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 01:36 PM

This video demonstrates Doc at the absolute height of his powers, vocally and instrumentally.

He is of course well known as one of the greatest flatpickers ever, but this video shows his amazing fingerpicking, and all done with thumb and index finger.

I would say that this is my favourite music video of all time.


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Subject: RE: Doc Watson
From: Jayto
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 01:50 PM

That's funny I have or had (can't remember gonna have to check) that video on my myspace page. That is a great video and song. Man I love Doc Watson.


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Subject: RE: Doc Watson
From: Fortunato
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 01:53 PM

Dale,

Thanks for the story. I'm mailing my Gallagher back to Wartrace for some repair this weekend, and I plan to visit the shop to pick it up when it's done.

I understand you phrase "that sound in my ears..." intuitively, perhaps I better leave my check book at home.

congrats on your great Guitars.
chance


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Subject: RE: Doc Watson and Jayto and Windy and Warm
From: GUEST,Dale Grider
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 02:05 PM

Man On Man Jayto,

That's a great Doc story!
I'd love to share that on on the FlatpickL if you don't mind. That ought to bring out all the Doc stories different folks have.

Dale:)


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Subject: RE: Doc Watson
From: GUEST,Dale Grider
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 02:18 PM

Fortunato says,

"intuitively, perhaps I better leave my check book at home."

Take it!
   Consider it money well spent!
          (Don't tell your wife I said that,LOL ;)

And if you ask real nice, chances are you may get a go around on Ol Hoss yourself while you're there in Wartrace at the shop! THAT's worth the trip!



Dale:)


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Subject: RE: Doc Watson
From: olddude
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 02:21 PM

Love this one by doc
doc watson youtube


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Subject: RE: Doc Watson
From: Jayto
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 02:47 PM

Dale that would be fine. What place are you talking about because if there will be a discussion about Doc I want to read it. I am a hardcore Doc Watson fan. I would love to read any stories about him. Everytime my brother and i back up somone they always bill us as the Rounders. Normally they will put thier name and then "and The Rounders or Dirty Rounders" That started years ago. I put a band together after I parted with another band I started. My other band was signed with Decca Records and I didnt like the direction and alot of more junk. Anyway I was riding around out in the country back up in Kentucky. I had Doc on the radio and the line "Dinners on the table and the coffee's getting cold but some dirty rounder stole my jelly roll." came through the speakers. Right then I decided to call my new band The Dirty Rounders. We got a huge following in the underground folk/americana scene in west Kentucky and northeast Tennessee. The band constisted of my brother, another friend of mine, and me. We vowed to keep playing until it lost it's spark for us and then no matter how good things were going we would quit. We lived up to our words when the spark for us left we disbanded. The name though has stuck. The people that followed us around and filled up the clubs shrotened it to The Rounders. So to this day people still refer to me and my brother as The Rounders. That all came from a Doc Watson song. I know it probably wasn't Doc's song originally but to me it is his song because man he owned it.


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Subject: RE: Doc Watson and Jayto and FlatpickL
From: GUEST,Dale Grider
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 04:48 PM

Well, I'm howdybud@insightbb.com and the list serv I speak of is the flatpickL that anyone can join. It's about flatpicked guitar and even pickers like Jack Lawrence occasionally chime in with a post . Go to, http://www.flatpick-l.org/list.shtml and join up! It's free. But I will say its BUSY and your inbox will be full DAILY. I love it anyway.

Sounds like you're a pro with a lot of stage experience. I'm a classical guitarist turncoat gone Doc Watson nuts so of course I do a lot of his fingerstyle material while I've been learning to flatpick these last 41/2 years or so to catch up to my fingerpickin'.

Drop me a line.
R U still in KY?
We could pick a few for fun?
Bluegrass Brewing Company has a Wednesday night jam in St Matthews here in Louisville.
There's an Old Time jam at Steilberg String Instruments in Beuchel next Wednesday at 6:00 too.

I'm here in Louisville.

Dale:)

PS: also re-discovering Grandpa Jones, whom I never thought of before except as a Hee Haw comedian. But he had some really good songs and was a real performer of Old Time music who I am now appreciating and learning some of his material. Look up his great Nephew Phillip Steinmetz who is doing a lot of Grandpa's stuff and is a championship league old timey banjo frailer (and plays Granpa's GALLAGHER guitar! Which was the first OM Gallagher ever built commisioned by Grandpa's wife for his Christmas present in 1968!)


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Subject: RE: Doc Watson
From: Stringsinger
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 07:45 PM

Doc Watson has managed to balance his artistry by bringing the level of guitar playing to
a fine art as well as retaining the folk music traditions with which he grew up. Clarence
Ashley was a great influence on him. Doc also sings very well with a strong, resonant
baritone voice that never sound affected. When he sings a ballad, you can get every word clear. (Folkies take note on that one). He is very musical and sophisticated in his guitar accompaniments, at the same time, simple and direct.

His version of Tom Dooley should put to rest any question about the fact that it is a
traditional folk song not written by Frank Profit, The Kingston Trio or Frank Warner.
(So why did they get the royalties?)

Doc is a legendary story-teller as well. He works very well with the multi-talented
David Holt with his complementary banjo playing.

Doc is amazing and a beacon of light in the world of folk music. He represents that tradition of Anglo-American folk music as a master. Also, Jean Ritchie falls into that category as well.

Frank Hamilton


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Subject: RE: Doc Watson
From: Arkie
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 11:20 PM

Doc Watson and David Holt will be in Mountain View, Arkansas next Saturday night if anyone is in driving distance.   We are looking forward to them coming back to town.


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Subject: RE: Doc Watson
From: Kampervan
Date: 23 Aug 08 - 02:40 AM

Thank you to those who have posted blue clickies to Youtube clips of Doc Watson.

I hadn't heard him play before, and I have to say that he is just amazing. I'll certainly be getting hold of one or two CDs.

Anyone care to pick out one that you think represents him at his (fingerpicking) best?

Thanks

K/van


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Subject: RE: Doc Watson
From: GUEST,Dale Grider
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 11:23 PM

"Foundation" The Instrumental Collection, is very good. It has "Doc's Guitar" and "Cannonball Rag" and "WIndy and Warm" to name a few.
Also a lot of Flatpicking favorites.

Dale:)


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Subject: RE: Doc Watson
From: Jayto
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 12:28 AM

Arkiw I saw where Doc was coming when I was out there in May. Man I wisj I could be there to see that. If anyone is in the area I highly recomend that show. Great facility and of course great music.


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Mudcat time: 21 October 2:56 PM EDT

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