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Origin: Done Laid Around

DigiTrad:
DONE LAID AROUND


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Tannywheeler 15 Oct 04 - 05:26 PM
Big Al Whittle 15 Oct 04 - 01:34 AM
GUEST,Lars Schoultz 14 Oct 04 - 05:54 PM
GUEST,Skip Landt 03 Jun 04 - 05:24 PM
Amos 14 Jan 04 - 05:39 PM
Bill D 14 Jan 04 - 04:33 PM
GUEST,Nancy Padgett 14 Jan 04 - 11:11 AM
GUEST,Nancy Padgett 14 Jan 04 - 10:52 AM
Peace 13 Jan 04 - 08:57 PM
GUEST,Frank Hamilton 13 Jan 04 - 03:41 PM
GUEST,Nancy Padgett, once Nancy Lazar 13 Jan 04 - 01:38 PM
GUEST,the happy otter 10 Mar 03 - 08:12 AM
Art Thieme 09 Mar 03 - 05:21 PM
Frankham 09 Mar 03 - 01:36 PM
Sir Roger de Beverley 09 Mar 03 - 08:05 AM
Joe Offer 08 Mar 03 - 10:41 PM
Little Hawk 23 Dec 00 - 01:28 PM
rube1 23 Dec 00 - 01:03 PM
rube1 23 Dec 00 - 01:02 PM
Snuffy 23 Dec 00 - 07:49 AM
GUEST,Art Thieme 23 Dec 00 - 12:15 AM
Sandy Paton 22 Dec 00 - 10:41 PM
GUEST,Art Thieme 22 Dec 00 - 10:09 PM
Susanne (skw) 22 Dec 00 - 07:51 PM
Joe Offer 22 Dec 00 - 03:15 PM
Sandy Paton 22 Dec 00 - 02:42 AM
GutBucketeer 21 Dec 00 - 10:24 PM
Joe Offer 21 Dec 00 - 10:00 PM
GUEST,Art Thieme 21 Dec 00 - 09:42 PM
dick greenhaus 21 Dec 00 - 06:41 PM
Hollowfox 21 Dec 00 - 01:20 PM
Knicke 21 Dec 00 - 12:19 PM
Hollowfox 21 Dec 00 - 09:58 AM
Joe Offer 21 Dec 00 - 03:57 AM
GUEST,Gene 21 Dec 00 - 02:58 AM
Knicke 21 Dec 00 - 12:29 AM
Knicke 21 Dec 00 - 12:28 AM
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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: Tannywheeler
Date: 15 Oct 04 - 05:26 PM

Do y'all know the difference between a sociologist and a musicologist?

One says, "There ain't but four hundred (400) tunes in the whole world, and everything -- from tribal chant thru Gregorian, Verdi, Wagner, Sondheim -- is a development of those."

The other one says, "There ain't but forty (40) tunes in the whole world, and..." (ditto, etc.)

I forget which is which.   Tw


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Oct 04 - 01:34 AM

Is there a decent biography of paul Clayton. I've heard the who'll count your chickens/don't think twice story for almost as long as I can remember but I've never really looked into him and his achievements and background. Sounds as though you knew him Art...?

all the best

al


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: GUEST,Lars Schoultz
Date: 14 Oct 04 - 05:54 PM


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: GUEST,Skip Landt
Date: 03 Jun 04 - 05:24 PM

As Frank Hamilton noted a while ago, the "Done Laid Around" tune goes back to a couple of gospel numbers, best known of which is "Do Lord."

But if I recall correctly, it is also the tune to WC Handy's Harlem Blues. that could mean that it was written by him or, as likely, that he collected it, as he did for many tunes and songs already in the tradition. The date given in one of the on-line chronologies for The Harlem Blues is 1923.


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: Amos
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 05:39 PM

Wonderful thread with great insights into the real ground-truth action along the back track. Thanks to all of you for your clarifying illumination!


A


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 04:33 PM

"He was under the impression that he wrote it.." well, when you mess about with a song of dubious ancestry, it does get muddy as to who added the most, hmmm?

It sure sounds to me like David Lazar & Larry Ehrlich AND Paul Clayton had a lot to do with it....one of the functions that Mudcat serves is focusing some light on these things, often with the help of people who WERE there!


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: GUEST,Nancy Padgett
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 11:11 AM

I should have said in my earlier remarks that Sanga is the publisher of Gotta Travel On and. I believe, of Dr. Freud, which also has other authors. David did not do music, only lyrics so a physicist and a mathematician did the music for Freud! One more funny tidbit. When the Grammer Gotta Travel On became a big success, and made a lot of money for the original writers, instead of being delighted they were horrified because the Grammer band was playing at all the Wallace for president rallies - not, to say the least, the candidate of choice of the original authors of GTO.


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: GUEST,Nancy Padgett
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 10:52 AM

In the version that the Weavers sing, and also Trini Lopez which was the big seller of this version, all the verses were written by David Lazar, Larry Ehrlich and Tom Six, which is a non de plume for the Weavers. The only lyrics that Paul Clayton supplied are those of the chorus. As I said earlier the Grammer version has totally different lyrics. David Lazar also wrote a much better song, Rr. Freud. Incidentally in answer to someone above who asked to whom one paid roayalties BMI controls the royalties to both Gotta Travel On and Dr. Freud.


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: Peace
Date: 13 Jan 04 - 08:57 PM

I had the pleasure of meeting Paul in the mid 1960s at the original Gerde's Folk City. He was under the impression that he wrote it, and I believe him. However, I doubt any writer is ever completely free from the influence of other writers. He was a very nice guy, incidentally.


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 13 Jan 04 - 03:41 PM

The tune is folk-based. "Lights in the Valley Outshine the Sun" or "Do Deliver Me". The recent bluegrass offering "On My Way Back Home" or "Two Dollar Bill". The tune has been around for a long time. "It Takes A Worried Man" is another variation.

I believe that Paul Clayton wrote the words to "Done Laid Around".

Frank


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: GUEST,Nancy Padgett, once Nancy Lazar
Date: 13 Jan 04 - 01:38 PM

I was there when this "folk" song was written. Pete Seeger, in spite of his later story, was at a xmall party in Chicago and sang the chorus which he said he had just heard from Paul Clayton. He thought it had potential as a commercial song but knew no more words. David Lazar, then my husband, and Larry Ehrlich came up with verses and Pete took it back to the Weavers who added more verses and recorded it. After a few legal complications Paul Clayton got added to the authors. Later Billy Grammer recorded it with entirely different lyrics, but I believe the original owners shared in the Grammer royalties. David was still getting a few dollars a year in royalties when he died in 2002


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: GUEST,the happy otter
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 08:12 AM

I heard the Weavers version first (on Traveling On with the Weavers? been a LONG time) and some years later was rather surprised to hear Allan Block and Art Rosenbaum doing a song called "Deadheads and Suckers" which, they explained, came from the Bogtrotters (of Galax VA) with much the same tune and words. As the preacher wrote, indeed there is nothing new, under the sun.


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 05:21 PM

You can pay H. Fox if you wish. But just remember, often it's easier to get forgiveness than permission.


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: Frankham
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 01:36 PM

The tune is of course familiar. "Lights in the valley outshine the sun", an early gospel tune....there's a bluegrass version of this tune. "On my journey home"....

Frank Hamilton


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 08:05 AM

As an interesting (I think) aside. Buddy Holly came on stage at his last ever concert in Clearlake on Feb 2nd 1959, strumming guitar and singing this song. I was a chart hit at the time for somebody else but Buddy, with his background in country, wanted to play it anyway.

R


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Mar 03 - 10:41 PM

So, what's the conclusion? If somebody wants to record this song, do they pay royalties? To whom?
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 01:28 PM

"Gotta Travel On" is a neat song with a truly traditional sound to it, whether or not it was written by Paul Clayton or someone else. It gets played now and then at the Orillia song circle by me or John Ashe usually.

- LH


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: rube1
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 01:03 PM

correction to above post: D. Lazar


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: rube1
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 01:02 PM

More or less duplicated info here, but on Dylan's "Self-Portrait," the song, "Gotta Travel On" is credited to P. Clayton, L. Ehrlich, D. Lazer, T. Six


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: Snuffy
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 07:49 AM

There's nothing wrong with verbing nouns, the BIG problem is with straightjacketing nouns and ajectives into verbal duties. I think it littles the language.

Wassail! V


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 12:15 AM

Aye, Sandy, That is what I meant by when HE left us.

Art

P.S.---Tell Rob "thanks" for sending me his song recently.


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 22 Dec 00 - 10:41 PM

Well, in Paul's case, Art, it was his own choice. A tragedy, however, to be sure.

Sandy


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 22 Dec 00 - 10:09 PM

Mr. Joe,

The feeling is mutual. Nice to see you here again. And it's nice to find a thread that I could add something to---even if what I inputted is possibly wrong. (I hate how nouns are regularly turned into verbs in our new millennial newspeak---unless, of course, they are irregular verbs.)

Those 2 LPs Paul Clayton did for Monument were interesting and glitzy but just the man and his guitar or dulcimer was the right way to hear him I always thought. He sure did crave the kind of success that Dylan was having. It was a huge loss to the American trad scene when he left us.

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 22 Dec 00 - 07:51 PM

Knicke, JAB beat me to quoting from Sing Out, and you won't find any more info on this song at MySongbook, but you may find other songs you're interested in.

Sandy, thanks for your first-hand info.

Joe, well put, as usual. I'm proud I've been allowed into the Mudcat Café. Sometimes it's like travelling in a time machine!


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Dec 00 - 03:15 PM

I'm tempted to say that while Greenhaus and Thieme were present while Tradition was writing the songs, Sandy Paton is Tradition. Whatever the case, I have to say what a pleasure it is to have people like Sandy Paton, Dick Greenhaus, and Art Thieme around here.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 22 Dec 00 - 02:42 AM

Arthur Kyle Davis was the ballad scholar at the University of Virginia under whom Paul Clayton did his Masters. Paul worked at transcribing the texts of the songs in the archive of the Virginia Folklore Society. It was through this association that Paul found the fragment that he expanded with words of his own. Whether he got the fragment directly from Davis or from hearing it in the Archive he was reluctant to say. I actually asked him about it when he visited us while we were still living in Vermont. I think he may have been worried about (legal?) repercussions concerning his use of the original fragment. Billy Grammer made his quite popular recording of the song for Monument Records. When the Monument honchos learned that the song was mostly Paul's creation, they offered him a recording of his own on their label. It had long been Paul's dream to make a "commercial" recording, so that's where you can hear Paul Clayton backed by the Jordanaires!

Sandy


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 10:24 PM

The song was published in Sing Out Volume III (Vol III Reprints page 7, 1961)

The pre-ampble in this version states:

Pete Seeger says: "The following song I first learned from Larry Ehrlich of Chicago, who learned it from Paul Clayton, who learned ti from Arthur Kyle Davis of the Univ. of Va. who got if from a small booklet, published by a now deceased French professor. his original sources, Negor folksingers of Virgina were not listed.

There may have been other verses, but Payl Clayton did not know them. Larry Ehrlich and others in Chicago there made up a couple more. And the Weavers added a few. The Weavers have just recored it on a 78 rpm single for Vangaurd."

It then lists the copyright as 1958 by Sangro Music Inc. (used by permission).

The Weavers Song Book published in 1960 also lists the above copyright but adds. "New words and music by Paul Clayton, Larry Ehrlich, David Lazaar, Paul Six."

So I don't think we will ever know for sure unless one of the above is still alive and cant tell us.

If it didn't start out in the folk process it certainly has ended up there.

BTW it is one of my favorite songs.

JAB


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 10:00 PM

It's about time we heard from Dick and Art on this. Rumor has it that when "tradition" wrote the songs, Dick and Art were there...

But seriously, Dick, what information is there to indicate that it was Clayton who wrote the lyrics? My Weavers CD has Clayton's name listed as the songwriter, so that's pretty good verification. Got more information?
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 09:42 PM

I've seen Clayton, the Weavers, Pete Seeger, Bill Monroe and country singer Billy Grammer (who had a hit with it) listed as co-authors of this song---all on the same line in the liner notes to Monroe's Decca LP. I suspect all of these people added a verse or two to it and changed it. But Clayton may have been the one who found the chorus in fragmentary form and wrote the first actual verses and then used his found verse as the chorus.

I think Monroe added this verse, at least, to his bluegrass version of the song:

Papa writes to Johnny---Johnny can't come home,
Johnny can't come home--Johnny can't come home,
Papa writes to Johnny and Johnny can't come home,
He's been down on the chain gang too long.

Art


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 06:41 PM

Paul Clayton wrote the words; he lifted the tune from a W.C. Handy blues (Harlem Blues, I think).


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: Hollowfox
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 01:20 PM

Depending on what your musical history quest(s) might be, you can try the links from Mudcat at the top of the page, or you can just ask here on the forum. I love this kind of question, even when I'm not the one answering.


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: Knicke
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 12:19 PM

Joe: Danke! Anyone else have any other helpful sites that might aid in my musical history quests? This is the sort of thing I love figuring out; too bad the music department didn't offer a class on THIS @ college, otherwise I'd still be a major...:)


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: Hollowfox
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 09:58 AM

Don't sell yourself short, Knicke. It's no sin to either be young, or to not know something (yet). I'm grateful t have a few more music questions on the 'Cat.


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 03:57 AM

Maybe it would be better if Gene said BMI and ASCAP show "who claim it." In this case, it's the Weavers and Paul Clayton. the Weavers resurrected a lot of traditional songs; but this one sounds like it was composed, and not subjected to the Folk Process.From what I can see in a review of recordings of the song, it seems it's generally credited to Paul Clayton, a gifted folk musician who died too young.
If you do a SuperSearch of Mudcat, you'll find we've had some interesting discussions of Clayton, and some comments from Mudcatters who knew him.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: GUEST,Gene
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 02:58 AM

Click here for - * BMI or ASCAP - good sources of WHODUNIT? *


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Subject: RE: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: Knicke
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 12:29 AM

Oopsie. The clicky didn't quite happen the way I expected, but I suppose that'll work too. Knowlegable people, lend me your brains!


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Subject: Curious: Who Wrote 'Done Laid Around'?
From: Knicke
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 12:28 AM

Alright, I admit I'm an ign'rant young'un...I'm real curious about this though. I first heard this song Click here (hope I managed that clicky thing...)on a "best of Bob Dylan" mix that my friend made for me...and just tonight, I heard an unknown bluegrass band cover it on one of my dad's bootleg tapes. Sooo...no one's credited as the writer! Probably it's a trad. tune and I'm barking up the wrong tree. I was just impressed because both versions had EXACTLY the same lyrics, which rarely happens with traditional tunes.


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