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american politics is a joke

kendall 13 Nov 00 - 09:17 AM
CarolC 13 Nov 00 - 08:52 AM
Troll 13 Nov 00 - 08:05 AM
Gervase 13 Nov 00 - 07:49 AM
CarolC 13 Nov 00 - 03:37 AM
MK 12 Nov 00 - 11:27 PM
Troll 12 Nov 00 - 11:23 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 12 Nov 00 - 07:42 PM
GUEST,Stackley 12 Nov 00 - 07:28 PM
Seth 12 Nov 00 - 06:54 PM
DougR 12 Nov 00 - 06:22 PM
GUEST 12 Nov 00 - 05:59 PM
Ebbie 12 Nov 00 - 04:09 PM
Ebbie 11 Nov 00 - 10:56 PM
CarolC 11 Nov 00 - 07:52 PM
Little Hawk 11 Nov 00 - 05:53 PM
GUEST,Mike in MD 11 Nov 00 - 05:53 PM
GUEST 11 Nov 00 - 05:44 PM
GUEST,Lindsay in guest mode 11 Nov 00 - 04:33 PM
CarolC 11 Nov 00 - 04:15 PM
GUEST 11 Nov 00 - 12:49 PM
Uncle_DaveO 11 Nov 00 - 10:40 AM
Greg F. 10 Nov 00 - 09:25 PM
Lonesome EJ 10 Nov 00 - 09:12 PM
Wavestar 10 Nov 00 - 08:26 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 10 Nov 00 - 07:41 PM
CarolC 10 Nov 00 - 06:57 PM
harpmolly 10 Nov 00 - 06:20 PM
Kim C 10 Nov 00 - 05:59 PM
mousethief 10 Nov 00 - 05:39 PM
GUEST,steve 10 Nov 00 - 05:22 PM
Robo 10 Nov 00 - 05:09 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 10 Nov 00 - 04:52 PM
DougR 10 Nov 00 - 04:43 PM
Naemanson 10 Nov 00 - 04:28 PM
GUEST,steve 10 Nov 00 - 04:23 PM
Frankham 10 Nov 00 - 04:15 PM
mousethief 10 Nov 00 - 04:00 PM
harpmolly 10 Nov 00 - 03:33 PM
DougR 10 Nov 00 - 12:16 PM
Clifton53 10 Nov 00 - 12:10 PM
Robo 10 Nov 00 - 12:06 PM
Uncle_DaveO 10 Nov 00 - 11:56 AM
Wolfgang 10 Nov 00 - 11:47 AM
InOBU 10 Nov 00 - 10:52 AM
KingBrilliant 10 Nov 00 - 10:49 AM
InOBU 10 Nov 00 - 10:26 AM
Frankham 10 Nov 00 - 10:22 AM
Peter K (Fionn) 10 Nov 00 - 10:10 AM
CarolC 10 Nov 00 - 08:30 AM
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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: kendall
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 09:17 AM

I see a repeat of Warren G Hardings administration if Bush wins. He lacks the intellect to do the job, and, he will rely on his cronies to advise him. The past is prolog.


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 08:52 AM

Gervase, I appreciate it. You are a kind and gentle soul.

Carol


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: Troll
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 08:05 AM

Gervase. Thanks for the defense but we really don't mind too much. We must be doing something right considering how many people want to come here to live as opposed to how few seem to leave to live elsewhere.

troll


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: Gervase
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 07:49 AM

Awareness of other countries is in itself no guarantee of civilisation, I'm afraid.
In the pre-glasnost days I spent some time with various Soviet spook types who were impressively well-informed about the West and about the minutiae of Western politics, lifestyles etc - but I still wouldn't have wanted to live under their system of government (one which they enthusiastically and assiduously promoted). I have to say I've been a bit depressed by the "Yank-bashing" both in this thread and on the forum generally. To accuse an entire nation of xenophobia and ignorance when your own neighbours probably read the Daily Mail is a bit rich.


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 03:37 AM

Michael K.,

I never heard that one, but I like it. ;-)


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: MK
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 11:27 PM

Weren't there strong but unsubstantiated rumors that Deep Throat was Al Haig?


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: Troll
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 11:23 PM

Ebbie, I have been out of town so I couldn't respond until now.
Yes, I do believe that 30 years later a police officer could still be "walking the beat"> It is not uncommon for people to work in the same job for 30, 35, or 40 years. I just recently retired; 30 years with the Postal Srevice. Two years before me, Billy Cantrell retired with 42 years.
As regards the unnamed source, have you ever heard the name of the person who spilled the beans on Watergate? You have not. That person is known only as "Deep Throat"; an unnamed source.
It is probable that the news broke too late for the Republicans to make any good use of it.
Yes, Chappaquidic cost Kennedy his shot at the Presidency. I'll bet that makes the Kopeckne family feel really good; that their daughters death cost Ted Kennedy the Presidency. I'll bet they think it was worth it.
And of course the Democrats see nothing wrong with it. After all, he wasn't arrested or anything, so it's all OK.

troll


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 07:42 PM

Guest(s), stay anon if you have to, but put something in the "from" line, if only so we can tell one guest from another.....


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: GUEST,Stackley
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 07:28 PM

That's telling him, Rodney lad! Demonstrate your respect for other opinions.
Cheers.


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: Seth
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 06:54 PM

From China, most of the Chinese people I've talked with are Gore supporters. They see "Bush Jr." as an inexperienced son of a rich former president who is likely to muck up relations between the U.S. and China. On the level I am , we don't talk about exporting missle technology or anything like that. Mostly I talk to other teachers at the school where I work', or meet on the buses or trains. Chinese people are very convivial, but nobody told me the results of the election until I returned home after a five day vacation. I think that they felt it would be embarassing for me to talk about it. For years, we have been saying that it would be great if there was a box on the ballot for "Nobody", and this year, THANK YOU JESUS! Nobody won! Seth from China


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: DougR
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 06:22 PM

Gee whiz, Frank, why don't you call some diligent Democrat and tip him/her off to your inside information?

DougR


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 05:59 PM

I don't agree that Richard Nixon's capitulation to voter irregularities was a noble thing. I think it was simply this, he realized that he couldn't win because JFK was more powerful on TV. He was smart enough to see that people had a negative view of him in the debates with Kennedy. It would be like trying to run against Elvis Presley in a music awards contest.

I do agree that our system of Democracy works and it's working now. There is a humorous side to it as in all elections but to say it's a joke is to sell it short. It was no joke that people have given their lives for it unless you mean it was a big comic joke by an Aristotelian God which is theologically debatable.

I have faith in this system and I think that not only is it working but it's very entertaining, and edifying. We are beginning to understand what we're made of and what is important to us as a nation.

If we solve this crisis without going to war over it, I think we will have incurred a huge respect from the rest of the world. Many countries do go to war over such things but that's not the American pattern in history with the exception of the Civil War.

Every politician who is worth his salt feels a kind of divine destiny to lead. That's what makes them a good president. They love power. (Check Presidential Power by Neudstadt.) It's up to us to make sure they use that power for our benefit.

One thing Bush supporters have to reckon with. He was a failed businessman and left his investors high and dry. I believe that some diligent Democrat will uncover this information for the benefit of the general public.

The Bush's were involved also in the Silverado Savings and Loan bank failure which happened under Herbert Walker Bush and was covered up quickly.

As to another term with Clinton, you want corruption? If Bush gets in "you ain't seen nothin' yet". Anyone who looks at the political process in Texas doesn't have to turn over many rocks. The preceding statement was an unpaid political announcement.

Frank

.


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 04:09 PM

Sorry- didn't mean to kill the blessed thing!


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Nov 00 - 10:56 PM

Carol, you're so right. Some regions in this country were they introduced to each other would barely recognize each other as American at all. A resident of Europe where I understand one can be in Zurich 45 minutes after leaving London, someone who has never been in the US may not be aware that flying from Los Angeles to New York will take at least six hours in the air and from Anchorage Alaska to Miami Florida takes at least 9 hours. And Unnamed Guest presumes the US culture is the same all over the country! That would be a most remarkable feat.

And zorro-but-not-so-cute, one reason that you in your dinky countries have to know what your neighbors are doing is to avoid being stabbed in the back or over-run in a raid or land grab. Here we have a little more maneuvering room.

We have a lot of problems in the US but we discuss them more freely and allow others more latitude in criticizing us than almost any I'm aware of. When a critic jabs us our usual reaction is to agree. If we were to give the same jab to most other countries, we would be inundated with indignant, self-serving rhetoric.

So there.

Ebbie


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Nov 00 - 07:52 PM

Unidentified Guest:

"There are certainly no real discernable cultural differences between the vast majority of geographic areas in the U.S."

Guest, you have demonstrated your own ignorance and jingoeism with that statement. Anyone who has spent any time traveling around the U.S., or even researching about it from home, knows the falsity of your statement.

Carol


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Nov 00 - 05:53 PM

Just as souls are credible, with or without absolution. The lack of answers in the public arena speaks to my point.


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: GUEST,Mike in MD
Date: 11 Nov 00 - 05:53 PM

A couple of thoughts:

We are witness to election as junior high school food fight! Regardless of whom you supported, or who emerges as the winner, neither side has acquitted itself very well.

I don't believe Richard Nixon had many fine moments, but his finest may have been in not challenging the 1960 election, sparing the country the kind of mess we are seeing now. His next finest moment may have been resigning rather than having the country endure his impeachment and trial (true, the only reason he resigned was because he knew he would lose and be removed!)

Depite our faults, and they are many, this country has provided a greater degree of freedom (not necessarily equality, but freedom) to more folks for a longer period of time than most others. We shouldn't rest on our laurels, but we deserve some points for what we've done.

For over 200 years, we have had peaceful transfers of power, in war and peace, from party to party, following assassination and other sudden death, and in resignation. Come January 20, Gov. Bush or V.P. Gore will become president. This too, shall pass.

The republic will survive.

Mike


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Nov 00 - 05:44 PM

The questions are credible with or without attribution. The lack of answers speaks to my point.


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: GUEST,Lindsay in guest mode
Date: 11 Nov 00 - 04:33 PM

1. This country was originally established as a Republic.

2. The electoral college was established because our original leaders did not think the common man was able to avoid electing a man (no sexual discrimination, just the fact at the time) who would be king.

Unfortunately, the way the politicians and general public are acting, our country's founders may have been right. Bush and Gore seem to believe they are destined to rule, to the point of religious fervor.

I remain, a loyal, but somewhat disgusted, American,

Lindsay


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Nov 00 - 04:15 PM

Guest,

Would you care to divulge your identity? Until you do, your question has no credibility.

Carol


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Nov 00 - 12:49 PM

Would any of the U.S. jingoes thumping on Fionn care to let on which foreign countries they have vistied, how many times and for how long? Or what foreign news broadcasts they regularly listen to (no cost involved) or what foreign papers they regularly read (quite inexpensive)? Or give substantive reasons why they blindly believe this sophomoric 'best country in the world' shite? It should be obvious to anyone familiar with content of U.S. news programmmes/newspapers that the average European is vastly better informed about world affairs that his American counterpart. There are certainly no real discernable cultural differences between the vast majority of geographic areas in the U.S.


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 11 Nov 00 - 10:40 AM

Fionn:

"I am very much aware that the USA boasts - and in some (Republican) quarters of the USA they actually do boast about it - some of the world's most heart-rending poverty."

Please document your parenthetical claim, or retract it.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 09:25 PM

Now, who on this forum would possibly want or need to check with Rush, EJ?   ;-)
Best, Greg


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 09:12 PM

Regarding our status as a Republic,and using that fact to justify the existence of the Electoral College...

We are indeed governed by elected officials,and not popular referendum.To organize a plebiscite on every aspect of new law and policy would be a practical impossibility,so instead we elect officials whose views,we believe,will most likely represent our own. The Congress is the closest institution to truly representing the popular will present in each state of the union.The Senate is a less representative body,being primarily a concession by the populists among the Founders to the less populous states,who felt that their regional issues would be trampled on by the will of the majority.The members of these two bodies are elected by popular vote,and derive their power,therefore,directly from the will of the people.Our government does allow for constitutional and legal interpretation outside the bounds of the electoral process,through the creation of the Judiciary Branch,and this is rightly the only high govern,mental entity that should exist (except in certain extraordinary circumstances) beyond the direct control and authority of the people.

Now,in this context,how bizarre that the nation's chief elected official should be not granted his position by popular will,but by the independent vote of appointed electors.The process does not reflect the true sentiments of the majority of voters,is ultimately subject to the whim of the electors, and does not reflect the percentage of voters who may turn out in a particular state (if New York only turns out 25% of its voters,the majority voting for candidate A,and Texas turns out 80% of its voters,the majority voting for candidate B,and the total vote in NY is 3 million, while 6 million voted in Texas, Candidate A derives the full 36 electoral votes of NY,while B receives only 29 electoral votes,though he has garnered twice the popular votes).The electoral college does not,in fact,embody any principle of a representative republic,but instead is a constitutional hold-over from an era where states rights and distrust of the people's will were the motivating factors. It should be abolished.

Now if someone has a logical counterpoint to this argument I welcome it,but I have yet to hear one.If you need until tomorrow afternoon so that you can check with Rush,I understand.


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: Wavestar
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 08:26 PM

May I just take a moment to be sick, not only at the madness and idiocy of the situation, but at all the nastiness flying around?

Right. Thanks. I feel ever so much better now.

Fionn. Stop acting like a child. I think that's all the really needs to be bothered to be said to you.

-J


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 07:41 PM

The richest, to be absolutely precise, Carol. I did say don't blame me for the way they share it out, but that was too flip. I am very much aware that the USA boasts - and in some (Republican) quarters of the USA they actually do boast about it - some of the world's most heart-rending poverty. Even more disgusting, and inexcusable, that such poverty should be found amid such obscene riches.

On which equivocal note I'll follow Rob's advice and retire, albeit only from this thread. But keep posting Rob, I'll be looking in to take my lumps.


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 06:57 PM

Fionn, when you castigate "Americans" as a group, you include all of us. As a group, we may be one of the richest countries on earth.

However, there are plenty of us who are far from rich. In fact, a socially aware person will know that a lot of us live in poverty. It's not the fault of those of us who don't have access to "American riches" that things are shared out unfairly, any more than it is your fault.

Don't you think it's enough that we have to live with this unfairness without having to listen to people from other countries castigating all of us regardless of who we are, and what we are like as individuals?

How about taking the time to get to know some of us individually before making your judgements about us?

Carol


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: harpmolly
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 06:20 PM

Doug: Well said. I wholeheartedly agree.

No matter who ends up being inaugurated in January, they will have to have a hearty streak of determination (and masochism, imho ;)) to survive. I kind of doubt that either of them will serve two terms.

Moll


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: Kim C
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 05:59 PM

Wasn't it Ben Franklin who said something about the people getting the kind of government they deserve? Wish I could remember exactly.


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: mousethief
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 05:39 PM

Umlauts needs a new thread. "Du bist schon da" means "you're already there" whereas "Du bist schön da" means "you're beautiful there." I could multiply examples ad nauseam. Schussel is far from being an anomaly.

Fionn: I didn't mean to break your heart, so much as jump-start your brain. Sorry I missed.

Alex
O..O
=o=


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: GUEST,steve
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 05:22 PM

Europeans know America through movies and music.We know you more through books,believe it or not.So who really lives in a fantasy world?


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: Robo
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 05:09 PM

Another change of direction. Great post about umlauts . . . Cuba's healthcare system? . . . Global warming? C'mon, man, give it up.


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 04:52 PM

Great post, Wolfgang! I knew about the dots - but not the consequences of missing them off. (Wouldn't have known how to include them anyway.) Maybe you're aware of the guy? A bit too right-of-centre for my taste, but he comes across as a really sound politician.

Rob-o I didn't express it too clearly, but what I was suggesting you might not know was that in the states you can be in another country just by crossing a line in the road. But when I posted, I hadn't realised that you don't need a passport for Mexico. (As Mudcat is often inaccessible at present, I posted before seeing Carol's post setting me straight.)

Mousethief, you're breaking my heart. I'm even beginning to forget that Americans are the richest folk on earth. (Don't blame me for the unfair way they share it out!)

Carol, Rob-o etc,I take the point that you don't need to see the Victoria Falls if you've got Niagara. But in my view that only works for scenery, not social and political systems. For instance I'd say there was every reason for Americans to see Cuba's healthcare, even though they've got their own.

To make a serious point (well even more serious than my other points) long-distance air travel is now a major factor in global warming, which is a good argument for not doing it without strong cause. So I agree passports are a poor measure of enlightenment - especially when we can use the Mudcat to challenge our respective European/American mindsets without putting a foot outside the door.


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: DougR
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 04:43 PM

Moll: I think it is going to be very difficult for either Bush or Gore to govern. Bush, for the reasons you gave, and Gore because he is (I think) going to be viewed by many people as a spoiler and bad sport before this is all over. Consider, also, the make-up of the Congress. It appears that the Republicans may have a majority in both the senate and the house. Which President is most likely to get cooperation? I know, Gore supporters, if Bush wins, will view this a good thing. But do you think Gore is going to get better cooperation from the majority in congress to get his programs through? It's a mess, and I, personally, do not think there will be any real winners, regardless of who wins the election. And at the moment, we don't know who that will be.

Mousethief: I think your comments to Fionn are right on.

DougR


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: Naemanson
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 04:28 PM

Oh boy, this is fun. I generally take the speeches of our great leaders with a large grain of salt because they generally come across like small boys fighting over toys. Now here is something worth paying attention to.

We need to keep in mind that the largest proportion of the mail in votes will be from members of the armed forces and it has been my experience that they are overwhelmingly Republican. I have spent the last 20 years wrapped in the security of a Republican enclave and take every opportunity to spout liberalisms and shake their faith in the uniformity of mankind.

Consider that Bush WILL get the presidency. He will have a Republican House and 50 votes in the Senate. In case of a tie the Vice President casts the deciding vote. Therefore the Republicans will have the Congress sewed up.

Bush HAS to live up to his campaign promises and he has to do it in the first two years if the Republicans are going to keep control of the Congress. He cannot point to the Democrats as the road block to fulfilling his promises. What will we see coming out of Washington over the next two years? It's anyone's guess.

We HAVE to keep a close eye on what they are doing in Washington and fire off heated letters to our representatives to make sure they understand what our will is. Keep your word processors on stand by.


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: GUEST,steve
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 04:23 PM

People from Europe can insult Americans all they want.You know the same group of elitest families that controls Europe also controls the U.S.Do us a favor and don't come to America.


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: Frankham
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 04:15 PM

In fact, there was a lot of amusement as well as seriousness in the early days of the Founding Fathers. Many did see the light side of things and the songs that floated around during the time dealt with humor quite handilly.

There were songs that echoed the function of our current TV comedians on SNL, Leno and Letterman and such a long fact in the face of a genuine interest on the part of the electorate is a wonderful thing since many Americans slept through the Reagan and Bush years.

Until now, there weren't that many people who knew what an electoral college was. Now, we have democracy in action. It took a situation whereby the "holes didn't line up" to make this happen.

Frank


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: mousethief
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 04:00 PM

Fionn, we are so fed up with you Europeans and your holier-than-thou worldliness. So Americans don't travel abroad as often as often as Brits. How much does it cost to take a boat to France from England? Compare this to how much it costs to fly to a country where you need a passport (we don't need one for Canada or Mexico) from, say, Kansas.

So Newzilders have more passports. Do they use them to go abroad? Maybe that's their national identification system.

Besides, as somebody else pointed out, this is a HUGE country. If we want to see deserts, ocean, forests, geologically interesting valleys, towering mountains, quaint villages, 1000-year-old dwellings, even older ruins, WHATEVER, there is no need to ever leave the USA, let alone North America. For many people in the USA, visiting Europe or the Far East is a lifelong dream, which they must save up for for years and years. It takes us 10+ hours and hundreds of dollars to fly to London. You can hop on a boat-train and be in Paris in a couple of hours. Small wonder y'all have more passports than we do.

If you must feel yourself superior to us, find something that really shows it, not this phoney passport comparison thing.

Better yet, find another way to feel better about yourself than putting others down. Getting a life is an admirable method, I'm told.

Alex
O..O
=o=


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: harpmolly
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 03:33 PM

DougR said:

"Mollificent: There is no evidence that anyone stole any votes in Florida! There is ample evidence that a lot of folks have difficulty following ballot directions though."

Please don't misinterpret me, Doug--I certainly didn't mean to be hostile or accusatory, and I apologize if I came across that way. What I said was that lots of votes had been thrown out because of confusion and faulty procedures. I also said that though there have been hints of "intimidation" as the Rev. Jackson put it, I have no educated opinion on that. I didn't say that anyone "stole" votes. But the fact remains that 20,000 people feel seriously disenfranchised, and I don't think the Republicans should be brushing this off, nor should Bush be patting himself on the back and saying, "I'm the president! Nyah nyah nyah!" when it's quite possible that he isn't.

Another point: If all those votes really did belong to Buchanan, why aren't the 3000 Buchanan voters stepping forward and saying, "Yes, there is no mistake, we do support Buchanan and this huge discrepancy in his votes is simply a coincidence"? Why is it all Gore voters insisting that a mistake has been made? It seems to me that if even Pat B. concedes the votes probably didn't belong to him, that's reason enough for a re-vote just in Palm Beach county. If 3000 people voted for Buchanan, then they should be happy to step back into the booth and reaffirm their vote.

I know a re-vote is legally unlikely, because of the media exposure, but I still think it's the only fair way to settle this. If people are going to go back in and change their vote, that's one thing--but, say, if thousands of Nader voters decide to switch back for Gore, that's going to be fairly obviously displayed in Nader's numbers, isn't it? I would hope they wouldn't be that dumb (hope springs eternal ;)) However, the chances of 3000 honest-to-God Buchanan voters spontaneously switching their votes to Gore is pretty damn unlikely. Nader's numbers taking a dive would be suspect: Buchanan's, only to be expected.

In a way, I feel sorry for Bush--as Roger Ebert says, he can't win. Either he ends up somehow losing to Gore, or he takes home a controversial victory and goes into his presidency with a cloud of anger, suspicion and disenfranchisement hanging over his head. Poor guy.

What a weird week.

Moll


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: DougR
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 12:16 PM

Thanks for pointing that out, Dave.

DougR


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: Clifton53
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 12:10 PM

Fionn, bash away. We're used to it. Nowhere in these postings was I insulting towards you or anyone else. I was simply stating my personal feelings. I didn't call you stupid, and didn't try to tell you where your thinking comes from.

Let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that. I'm not here to make enemies.

Clifton


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: Robo
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 12:06 PM

Nya-nya-nya-nyaaa-nya! You are flamin' good, Fionn, gotta say that. You take it to a new level in fact. Clifton backs off, seeking a higher ground, and you slam him again for what he's just apologized for. Sticks and stones may break bones but this European elitism will never hurt anyone. I appreciate your forgiveness, but how in bloody hell am I to know you're from the UK? So I suppose I should forgive you for not knowing that we are, too! Bottom line then, grow up. Get your nose out of the air or at least tend to your own stinkin' business.

I'm reminded of a tune. Hit it, Steve:

"The day you're born they sign a piece of paper

That will certify the date of your birth

And the day you die they sign another

Just to prove you've gone back to the earth;

And between those two piece of paper

There is a truth that is so hard to find

And the story of your life is written,

But you must read in between the lines."


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 11:56 AM

About the origins of the Electoral College, several observations:

The United States was not designed to be, nor is, nor ever was a democracy. The United States is a republic. In a republic the people vote for representatives who actually do the governing. The Electoral College is a republican (small r) institution.

Our system of selecting public officials, with all its faults--and there's a lot of them as actually practiced --has worked pretty well for over two hundred years, and I say it would be foolish to change this feature, to make it inconsistent with the basic republican (small r) nature of our government. There's no telling what kind of troubles might come out of a changed system.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: Wolfgang
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 11:47 AM

Fionn,
Wolfgang Schüssel, not Wolfgang Schussel. I wouldn't correct such a really minor detail if it was not for the laugh I had. 'Schussel' means 'halfwit' in German, whereas his real name means 'bowl'. That's one of the extremely few examples in German where leaving the two dots away really makes a difference in sense. Can you imagine how often the diplomats proofread letters addressed to the Austian chancellor for this minor slip? Not always with success. But he is used to it by now.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: InOBU
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 10:52 AM

Kris! Shite! Yer right! Thanks for the proof read, and I did indeed mean handed, I mean hanged! - Larry


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 10:49 AM

InOBU - it took me ages to work our that you meant hanged! (chuckle)

Kris (who loves typos mainly because she does loads of them, and wouldn't want you to take offence)


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: InOBU
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 10:26 AM

Frank
Respectfully - I very much doubt founding fathers and brothers and sisters, who faced the strong likelyhood of being handed for their political statements and actions would be amused at an election being stolen from the people of the land they risked life and liberty for... see the post a day of absence for democracy...
Larry


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: Frankham
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 10:22 AM

I think we should hold a new election. This would solve the problem temporarilly. Then I think we should have a wrestling match between Jesse Ventura, Ralph Nader and Pat Buchanan. The winner would be eligible for government funding of their next election campaign.

Pat Buchanan said the other night on TV, Mayor Daley of Chicago stole the election from Richard Nixon when Kennedy got in and Kennedy was a good leader. So what he didn't say but the logical conclusion to be drawm is this: what's wrong with candidates stealing the election? It's done all the time.

After all didn't Pat get the Jewish vote in Palm Beach?

I suggest that it's our patriotic duty to export our election machine technology to every aspiring democratic country in the free world. Russia should have it's own Florida.

I love this whole thing. It's democracy in action and I'm in favor of it. This is exactly what the Founding Fathers had in mind and I'm glad that they had a good sense of humor.

Frank


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 10:10 AM

Clifton, re-read that first post of yours. For my money it was isolationist, brain-dead thinking straight out of the G W Bush school. Is there some other way to interpret it?

No, Ebbie, let's not dwell in the past. Hitler was of Austrian origin but chancellor of Germany. (OK, Germany over-ran Austria, along with a whole lot of other places.) I was referring to the present chancellor of Austria, who is Wolfgang Schussel.

Rob-o, I live in an island nation (UK). You can be forgiven for not knowing this (especially if you are soon to be living in GWB's America) but unlike me, you can travel to other countries without ever leaving dry land. Or if you want to go farther, I think it's about 100 miles from Florida to Cuba (when your enlightened government finally says you can do that trip). A little bit farther to the West Indies. And how come there are proportionately more passports in New Zealand than in USA? NZ is nearly 2,000 miles from anywhere. (I'd send you an atlas but they're probably banned over there *BG*)


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Subject: RE: american politics is a joke
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 08:30 AM

Fionn, I believe it is also Austria that produced and enthusiastically endorsed Jerg Heider (sp?). I don't think Austria is necessarily the best example to be using of what other countries should aspire to.

I find that a lot of people who have never been to the U.S. cannot even begin to comprehend how big this country is. I don't know if you've ever been here or not, but the fact is that for a lot of us, travel overseas is not an option for financial reasons. We don't need a passport for Canada or Mexico.

This is a very big country. So for most of us, a passport is irrelevant. If you've not been over here yet, come on over and check it out yourself.

Carol


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