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favorite stories in folk songs?

Catrin 05 Oct 00 - 01:31 PM
hesperis 05 Oct 00 - 01:45 PM
Bert 05 Oct 00 - 02:04 PM
Catrin 05 Oct 00 - 02:07 PM
GospelPicker (inactive) 05 Oct 00 - 02:37 PM
Mbo 05 Oct 00 - 02:41 PM
MMario 05 Oct 00 - 02:58 PM
Bert 05 Oct 00 - 03:13 PM
sophocleese 05 Oct 00 - 03:23 PM
Naemanson 05 Oct 00 - 03:24 PM
Catrin 05 Oct 00 - 04:22 PM
bill\sables 05 Oct 00 - 05:56 PM
Bev and Jerry 05 Oct 00 - 07:46 PM
Wavestar 05 Oct 00 - 08:02 PM
Mbo 05 Oct 00 - 08:38 PM
Wavestar 05 Oct 00 - 09:10 PM
Naemanson 05 Oct 00 - 09:43 PM
Malcolm Douglas 05 Oct 00 - 10:04 PM
Amergin 05 Oct 00 - 10:21 PM
Susan A-R 05 Oct 00 - 11:02 PM
GUEST,Indigo 06 Oct 00 - 02:00 AM
Catrin 06 Oct 00 - 05:05 AM
sian, west wales 06 Oct 00 - 05:17 AM
Catrin 06 Oct 00 - 06:13 AM
Catrin 06 Oct 00 - 06:16 AM
Naemanson 06 Oct 00 - 06:30 AM
Kim C 06 Oct 00 - 10:07 AM
AndyG 06 Oct 00 - 11:38 AM
Amergin 06 Oct 00 - 01:24 PM
Kim C 06 Oct 00 - 01:30 PM
pastorpest 06 Oct 00 - 04:04 PM
GUEST,Kernow Jon 06 Oct 00 - 04:27 PM
Catrin 07 Oct 00 - 06:26 AM
Uncle_DaveO 07 Oct 00 - 01:29 PM
Indy Lass 07 Oct 00 - 02:32 PM
GUEST,Indy Lass 07 Oct 00 - 10:30 PM
Dave (the ancient mariner) 07 Oct 00 - 10:46 PM
Rich(bodhránai gan ciall) 07 Oct 00 - 11:14 PM
Mbo 08 Oct 00 - 06:22 PM
Clinton Hammond2 09 Oct 00 - 03:25 AM
Catrin 09 Oct 00 - 05:16 AM
IanS 09 Oct 00 - 06:10 AM
GUEST,Jaze 09 Oct 00 - 08:14 AM
Catrin 09 Oct 00 - 08:51 AM
Catrin 09 Oct 00 - 08:52 AM
kendall 09 Oct 00 - 10:22 AM
Mark Clark 09 Oct 00 - 11:06 AM
Clinton Hammond2 09 Oct 00 - 11:42 AM
GUEST,dan evergreen 09 Oct 00 - 11:54 AM
Catrin 09 Oct 00 - 11:56 AM
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Subject: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Catrin
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 01:31 PM

I'm looking for inspiration.

I have to write a story as part of a course I am studying and I have been thinking about using/taking the story from a traditional folk song. This is because I have always been fascinated by the stories in the songs - since being a little kid.

I have been thinking of taking something like 'Matty Groves' or 'The Lass of Roch Loyal/Lord Gregory' and setting it in modern times. I would be quite open about the source/inspiration for the story because part of me wants other people to know how damn fine some of these folk songs are and bacause it might further my quest to getting rid of the 'okey-cokey' image that folk songs have in a lot of places today. I would probably include the lyrics either in the beginning, as an introduction - or as chapter headings.

Oh, it would have to be traditional because of copyright.

So, what I am after is to find out which stories other mudcatters think are absolutely wonderful to see if there are any that can compete with Matty Groves.

Anybody?

Cheers,

Catrin


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: hesperis
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 01:45 PM

Sally Garden, The Highwayman (would that count?), any version of the songs that have a plot of one sister killing the other for the other's man and it being found out...

That'll do for a start.


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Bert
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 02:04 PM

The Golden Vanity


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Catrin
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 02:07 PM

Ooh yes Bert - My mum used to sing that when I was a little thing. Love it.

Hesperis I like the 2 sisters theme too. This is going to be a really difficult choice. Fun to do though!

Cheers,

Catrin.


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: GospelPicker (inactive)
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 02:37 PM

There's always my favorite... "Deportee" from good 'ol Woody... I am of Polish, Irish, Mexican and Sioux descent; I have not only felt discrimination, I have HAD relatives doing the migrant crop picking Woody sings about... "600 miles to the Mexican border; they chase us like rustlers, like outlaws, like thieves."

GospelPicker

@:()>[+]


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Mbo
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 02:41 PM

I like songs about Scots kickin' English ass


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: MMario
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 02:58 PM

love and death. or drinking and death. or the sea and death.


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Bert
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 03:13 PM

Is that a challenge Meebs boy?


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: sophocleese
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 03:23 PM

Sir Patrick Spense and Henry Martin for betrayal and shipwrecks. Sweet Lovely Joan or The Outlandish Knight where the heroine tricks the seducer and escapes. Geordie, The Highwaymaid. How about ones where a women goes to sea disguised as a boy. Two Babes in the Wood, or The Cruel Mother for grim stories with dead babies.


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Naemanson
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 03:24 PM

Barbara Allen, for the hopelessness of love spurned.

Thomas The Rhymer, for the adventure of seeking strange new lands and boldly going where no man has gone before.

Tam Lin for the eerie flight across the darkened heath.

Alison Gross for the lesson in why one should not piss off a witch.


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Catrin
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 04:22 PM

Love it everybody!

Which shall I choose
Which shall I choose
Which shall I choose of these?

I think I fancy Tam Lin at the moment - I like that kind of 'underworld' theme and the fact that her trust in him saves her life (or is it trust in love or God or what? not sure - but its trust in something).

I've just thought that the trouble with Matty Groves and Lord Gregory, and ones of that ilk is that they end with the most horrific murder scenes. I'm not sure if that's what I want to write about.

All of the songs on this thread are ones that I find powerful in different ways.

Thanks everybody - keep 'em coming.

Meantime, I'm off to study 'Tamlin'

Cheers,

Catrin


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: bill\sables
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 05:56 PM

How about Queen Elonore's confession, or Long Lankin


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 07:46 PM

We dig Tam Lin and Matty Groves but how about Wraggle Taggle Gpsies aka Black Jack Davy (Child 200)? Most of the versions we know (and we know plenty) have a soap opera ending where she tells her husband to get lost and runs off with the gypsy to live happily ever after. In one version the gypsy tells her in the morning after that he can't marry her because she's not a gypsy after all, but thanks for the good time anyway.

Some scholars believe this song is based on a true story which has quite a different ending. On catching up with her, the husband forces her to watch while he hangs the gypsy and then imprisons her in the tower for life to pay for her sins.

Makes a fine story no matter which ending you choose!

Bev and Jerry


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Wavestar
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 08:02 PM

Catrin, there's so many wonderful versions of Tam Lin - I've told that one as a story myself several times. If you're looking at versions, you should check out Joan D. Vinge's short story of the legend, in a collection edited by Robin McKinley called Imaginary Lands. It's one of my favouites.

MMario - "We're of the blood, love and rhetoric school. I can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and I can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and I can do you all three concurrent or consective, but I can't do you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory - they're all blood, you see."

Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Mbo
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 08:38 PM

No rhetoric! Game and set!


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Wavestar
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 09:10 PM

Game and match, Mbo, and we haven't even played.

*grin* -J


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Naemanson
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 09:43 PM

Bit of thread creep regarding Raggle tagle Gypsys.

I heard a Scots folk singer at Eistedfod back in 1985 (I think) say that the story came from his clan. In his clan version the lord caught the gypsies and hanged them. He then locked his lady in a tower and carved the faces of the gypsies on the risers of the stairs so she would have to look at them every day for the rest of her life.


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 10:04 PM

Do you happen to remember what version that was?  I suspect embroidery on the part of the singer, but would be very interested if it's a real one.  They get hanged in a lot of variants, but I don't recall hearing the carving story before.

Malcolm


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Amergin
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 10:21 PM

The story of Jamie MacPherson is one of my favorites...so is Joe Hill...I like stories based on history....cause then it sparks my interest and I have to go read about it....

Amergin


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Susan A-R
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 11:02 PM

I do like Thomas the Rhymer. What a wonderful payment, a tongue that cannot lie.

The Great Selchie is also a good one, although it's also pretty grim.

There are also varying versions of Geordie, I'm partial to the one June Tabor does where she goes and gets him back.

I also do like the Fair Whatps-her-name and the Elf Knight story. Works well with a sleezy con artist of our time too.

Any way you could post a link to it when you are done??

Susan A-R


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: GUEST,Indigo
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 02:00 AM

Everything about love lost in one great, very beautiful, song. 'The Tower'


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Catrin
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 05:05 AM

Ooh - so exciting!

Just arrived at work to find all these brilliant ideas!

Naemenson - that's not a thread creep - its an exciting aside that I am interested in - it gives a different perspective to the song.

Susan - of course i will keep you all informed regarding progress, I hope people will be interested. I have to write some 2000 words in the next couple of days, as a starter.

Gospel Picker - I think Steinbeck's already done that (or something similar in 'Grapes of Wrath') and so brilliantly too!

Mbo, the problem with songs that are set somewhere specific (like Scotland) is that I would have to travel there to do the research on how life is there today. I don't have very much time (even though Scotland aint that far from me - there will be cultural differences).

This is sooo interesting everybody - Thank you!

Catrin


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: sian, west wales
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 05:17 AM

I like Maid on the Shore. Captain abducts maid, she ends up robbing him blind. My kinda girl.

sian


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Catrin
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 06:13 AM

Hee hee I just found this thread on Barbara Allen.

What fun this is!


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Catrin
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 06:16 AM

OK, I mean this one


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Naemanson
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 06:30 AM

Malcolm, I'm sorry but I don't know any more than what I've already given. I can't even remember the name of the singer. He worked unaccompanied and did a lot of traditional stuff. I was very new to folk at the time and didn't know who I was listening to. (There was this guy named Gordon there who came from the coast of Maine. Good singer, deep beautiful baritone voice....)

If memory serves, the Scottish singer was one of the "names" in Scottish traditional music and I think his first name was Norman but that part is pretty fuzzy. If you can give me a list of names who were performing in the 80's I might be able to pick it out.


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Kim C
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 10:07 AM

I like Tam Lin also, but one of my favorite little stories is The Brisk Young Butcher.... I don't know if it's too bawdy for your purpose, but it is quite humorous. I got it from Maddy Prior and (oh shoot, what IS that man's name?), Folk Songs of England, Vol. 1. :)


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: AndyG
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 11:38 AM

Kim,
Tim Hart ?

I'd go with Tam Lin, (or just possibly Reynardine),
but then I like stories about magical creatures.

AndyG


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Amergin
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 01:24 PM

Another one with a story I love is The Selkie....I, too, have a fondness for the magical....in fact one of my favorite movies of all time is The Secret Of Roan Innish...


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Kim C
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 01:30 PM

Tim Hart! That's it! I knew it was Tim something. I can't believe I couldn't remember that. I've got a cold right now and my head feels like a huge water balloon...


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: pastorpest
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 04:04 PM

I am fond of "The Farmer's Curst Wife" in its many variations which in nonsensical ways suggest that one sex is superior to or smarter than the other. I do try to avoid being sexist or politically incorrect. But this song and story invite us to not take ourselves too seriously.


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: GUEST,Kernow Jon
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 04:27 PM

How about one of the best ever Mudcat Threads "where is Spancil Hill" the story behind that song is so moving.
KJ


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Catrin
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 06:26 AM

Kernow Jon,

You're so right - I've just refreshed it because I missed it before, to give a chance for other 'catters to read it. Fascinating stuff!!!!

Not my place to write about it though. I think it would need to be someone who knows much more about Irish history than I do - like someone who lives, or has lived there, for many years. Hope that makes sense.

Cheers,

Catrin


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 01:29 PM

My nominee: Binnorie. Two sisters fight over a man; the elder drowns the younger; body is washed up where a famous harper sees it; "A harp he made of her white breast bone".

Later, at the castle, when the elder sister comes into the presence of the harp it sings and plays by itself and accuses the sister of the murder.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Indy Lass
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 02:32 PM

There's a great poem by Sir Walter Scott, one of my favorite writers, called "Lochenvar." It's about a young man who crashes the wedding of the lady he loves (and she loves him best) but she has been betrothed(?) by her father to some looser nobleman. In the end he gets her aboard his steed and rides away over the lea. I got it from a book of scottish poetry. I've put my own tune to it. The poem may be on the internet somewhere...


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: GUEST,Indy Lass
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 10:30 PM

Ooops...that should be spelled "Lochinvar." Here's a site with the poem. www.zoomnet.net/~petecol/scott_sw.html


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 10:46 PM

The Fair Flower of Northumberland


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Rich(bodhránai gan ciall)
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 11:14 PM

I like that one song about unrequited love. You know the one I mean.

Rich


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Mbo
Date: 08 Oct 00 - 06:22 PM

Ah, Indy Lass! I too love "Lochinvar" and have put my own tune to it as well!


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 09 Oct 00 - 03:25 AM

I'm sorta fond of the tale told in the song that Steeleye Span did called "King Henry"... Chivalry defeating 'the beast' as it were...

I even took it upon mysef to write a new verse to fill in the left out details of their "coup'ling"...

LOL!!!!!

{~`


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Catrin
Date: 09 Oct 00 - 05:16 AM

Clinton is that the one on a sort of Beauty and the Beast theme, with the genders swapped round (He, the beauty, she, the beast). Something about

"I never thought a fiend from hell would stretch down at my side"

(or something like that) and when he wakes up she's turned into a beautiful maiden.

Hard to believe, but I'd forgotten all about it. Even though it was one of my favourites once. Thinking about now, I get goosepimples.

DaveO - The Fair Flower of Northumberland is one of my favourites. I am learning it at the moment.

Rich - LOL - actually, Barbara Allen is on my list of possibilities. The epitome of unrequited love that - everybody dies.

You can see how many folk songs can so easily be set in present day. Its because the tories are so damn good and timeless and about the human condition. People are people.

Mbo and Indy Lass - I don't know that one, but it sounds similar to Jock of Hazeldean, (which is one I sing) Also by Walter C. Scott.

Cheers all,

Catrin


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: IanS
Date: 09 Oct 00 - 06:10 AM

All of the above mentioned songs have terrific stories but my choice if I had to write a story based on a song would be to go for something simple but with a lot of gutsy emotion in it like the Recruited Collier - this could so easily be pulled into a contemporary setting.


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: GUEST,Jaze
Date: 09 Oct 00 - 08:14 AM

I recently heard Joan Baez sing a "traditional" song called "Seven Curses". Imagine my surprise to learn it was written by Dylan in the 60's!It's a great song in the traditional style.


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Catrin
Date: 09 Oct 00 - 08:51 AM

Re: my last post above.

I just caught myself saying "the tories are damn good"

Oh no!! help, wash my mouth out, please do not misunderstand.

That's supposed to read Stories (not tories).

It's amazing how one absent letter can change the whole meaning of a sentence......

Catrin Redfaced


--- Closing tags changed to </u> and </strong> (you had the slashes after the commands)---
-- PA --


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Catrin
Date: 09 Oct 00 - 08:52 AM

And its even more embarassing when you don't close bold commands properly....


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: kendall
Date: 09 Oct 00 - 10:22 AM

Naemanson, that Scottish singer was probably Norman Kennedy.

One of my favorite stories in song is Henry Martin


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 09 Oct 00 - 11:06 AM

I always thought some of the shanty boy songs made good stories. "Little Brown Bulls" and "Jam On Gerry's Rocks" are two that come to mind. Nobody seems to sing those anymore.

      - Mark


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Subject: King Henry
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 09 Oct 00 - 11:42 AM

Catrin

Yup... that's the one... if yer keen to see the verses I wrote at all, PM me... I won't post them here, 'casue they're a little 'blue'!

LOL!!

{~`


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: GUEST,dan evergreen
Date: 09 Oct 00 - 11:54 AM


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Subject: RE: favorite stories in folk songs?
From: Catrin
Date: 09 Oct 00 - 11:56 AM

See my PM Clinton - Thank you!

Dan - interesting point *BG*

Catrin


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