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Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.

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The Shambles 20 Jul 00 - 03:38 AM
The Shambles 20 Jul 00 - 03:40 AM
Lepus Rex 20 Jul 00 - 03:50 AM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Jul 00 - 06:30 AM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Jul 00 - 06:31 AM
sledge 20 Jul 00 - 06:35 AM
Willie-O 20 Jul 00 - 08:36 AM
Mbo 20 Jul 00 - 08:37 AM
Mbo 20 Jul 00 - 08:56 AM
SDShad 20 Jul 00 - 10:55 AM
The Shambles 20 Jul 00 - 12:03 PM
Mbo 20 Jul 00 - 12:15 PM
Jon W. 20 Jul 00 - 12:38 PM
Lepus Rex 20 Jul 00 - 01:08 PM
Hollowfox 20 Jul 00 - 03:35 PM
AllisonA(Animaterra) 20 Jul 00 - 04:37 PM
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Subject: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 03:38 AM

Is anyone looking forward to seeing, or dreading to see, the movie that is currently being made of The Lord of the Rings? Or have any useful news or gossip on this project?

There are also many songs in his writings, what are your thoughts about JRR Tolkien, as a songwriter?

I dimly seem to remember him 'gigging' around the 1930's Oxford folk clubs and his guitar playing wasn't up to much…….


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 03:40 AM

Lord of the Rings


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 03:50 AM

I was really looking forward to the LotR movies, until I found out that the hobbits are going to have American accents... Bleh.

---Lepus Rex


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 06:30 AM

Donald Swann (of Flanders and Swann) put some tunes to a bunch of Tolkien's songs. Looking that up in a search engine I found this, which lists that among a bunch of other things people have done with Tolkien.

So far as I know Donald Swann's are the only versions that Tolkien heard and liked.


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 06:31 AM

But I bet the orcs have English accents...


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: sledge
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 06:35 AM

Bend over Mr Tolkien, Hollwood has a little surprise for you.


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Willie-O
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 08:36 AM

Hey Shambles, when you say you "dimly remember Tolkien gigging in the 1930's"...how old are you anyway?

I checked out the website. It sure is gimmicky and slow-loading, has some nice graphics--the "evolution" of the hobbit hole--and is messy and confusing to navigate, and lacks hard info.

Looks like another special effects extravaganza, with lots of spectacular New Zealand-as Middle-Earth scenery.

Its a wait-and-see thing. But I don't think they can compress the whole story into one feature-length movie without losing a lot of the book's appeal. (And if they do, it's going to be one hard-to-follow movie!)

Will Bombadil


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Mbo
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 08:37 AM

I'm looking forward to the movies very much. I've been following the production for over 2 years now...back when it was just a concept. Some things I'm not to happy about, particularly the Arwen storyline, but other than that, I'm pretty well pleased. As far as accents are concerned, the Hobbits in the movie WILL have British accents, so there is no need to worry. Tolkien & Swann's songs are excellent. Also, the NPR production of the Hobbit did a great job with music for "Far Over The Misty Mountains." Very Renaissance-like. As for myself, I have put a few Tolkien poems to music. Shambles, as far as I know, Tolkien didn't play guitar. But I know he had a great interest in learning the banjo.

--Mbo (Tolkien scholar)


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Mbo
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 08:56 AM

BTW Willie, it's a trilogy, 3 movies, one for each volume, The Fellowship of The Rings, The Two Towers, and The Return of The King. The best site for the movies is TheOneRing. It's easy to navigate and has all the history & info about the 3 movies.

--Mbo


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: SDShad
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 10:55 AM

I'm cautiously optimistic. Peter Jackson seems to know what he's doing, and has some genuine respect for the material. The cast is very international, and yes, Frodo and Sam are played by American actors (Elijah Wood and Sean Astin), the hobbits can't all have American accents, surely, as Sir Ian Holm is playing Bilbo and I think both Merry and Pippin are played by Brits.

Lessee, who else? Gandalf-Ian McKellan; Saruman-Christopher Lee; Gimli-John Rhys-Davies!; Galadriel-Cate Blanchett; Grima Wormtongue-Brad Dourif!; Denethor-rumored to be Donald Sutherland; Boromir-Sean Bean!; The Mouth of Sauron-Bruce Spence, aka Gyro Captain from Mad Max 2.

Chris


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 12:03 PM

Well I was stretching the truth a little………………..It was his banjo playing that was not up to much.

Were you not aware that I was an Ent?

The casting sounds pretty good but how are they going to overcome the height differences between the humans and the hobbit/dwarves etc? Are they going to use Alan Ladd's orange box?


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Mbo
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 12:15 PM

It's going to be done with camera & computer effects, no to mention oversized things to make them appear small, like incorporating the record-holding biggest bull on earth into the movie to force the normal sized humans to look small. I've seen how it works, it's all very ingenious!

--Mbo


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Jon W.
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 12:38 PM

Between 1968 (Jr. High) and 1982 (end of college) I read the trilogy more times than I remember or care to admit. I was tremendously disappointed by Ralph Bakshi's failed effort at animation in the 70's. I've seen the internet preview of the new version, and it looks like it will be a great success - at least if they are reasonably faithful to the storyline from the book. I for one will be going to these movies and taking my children. I'm just disappointed that they didn't ask me to be the technical storyline advisor :-)


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 01:08 PM

MBO, they switched back to English accents on the movies? That would be cool. I quit reading about that movie last year, when they announced that they'd be using American accents to make it easier for Americans to understand.

Off the subject, really, but not really sure it's worth it's own thread: I don't know if this is news, but the popular Harry Potter kid's books were reportedly translated into 'American' by Scholastic. I find this depressing. Blah, back to work...

---Lepus Rex


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Hollowfox
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 03:35 PM

Lepus, some translation was deemed necessary, but not much. If not "translated", the USA crowd would wonder why Mrs. Weasley sent Harry a hand-knitted jumper every year for a Christmas gift.//I, too, am cautiously optimistic about LOTR. It couldn't be worse than the Bakshi version. My other cautious optimism is for Terry Gilliam's possible movie version of Neil Gaiman & Terry Pratchett's book "Good Omens". If he does it, he'll do it right; I can't imagine anybody else coming close. Lovers of fantasy and/or humour, if you haven't read this, you should. Right Now.


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 04:37 PM

Having read LOTR at least as often as Jon, and having participated thru high school and beyond in a fantasy of our own devising among friends involving what we thought of as "Middle Earth: Next Generation" LONG before Star Trek thought of that: I am nervously awaiting the film which I will go to see as soon as possible.
On the Harry Potter issue, my husband was one of the original proofreaders (!) of the first 3 HP books to be "Americanized". Of course, when the first one came across his desk he had no idea what was to become of it- he remarked that he had an interesting story to proof and he was pleased that he didn't have to Americanize it as much as many other stories that come.
(He also hoped he'd be able to find a copy somewhere- he thought the kids might enjoy it!)


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 04:46 PM

Check out But it ya try sometimes, Ya get what ya nee-eed!"

{~`


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Peter T.
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 04:51 PM

But Mbo, the new story line is a love interest!!!!Isn't that, you know, sort of kind of like your thing since you went all gooey on us?

yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Mbo
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 05:05 PM

Yes, and Aragorn & Arwen's story is what I am going through now, but I think it should be as the book has it. Not having Arwen follow the company unawares through Moria (somehow avoid Gollum & the Balrog) to join them later to help win Helm's Deep.

--Mbo


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Peter T.
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 05:09 PM

I forget -- is that the part where the Ring is traded for those X-ray glasses that allow you to see through women's clothing?

yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 05:35 PM

Repost... sorry... I missed one little close quote!!! This place really needs an edit or preview button for dough heads like me!!! Is it possible to have a MOD delete that post of mine above??

Take 2!

Check out Ringbearer.com for the best site for LOTR movie stuff... I've been following it with much dread for alomst 2 years now I think?? But we folk over that the Ringbearer MB can answer most of yer questions, like about accents and 'Digial Shrinkage' effects and such...

No 'hobbits swimming in cold water' jokes please, we've done them to death some time ago...

Near as I remember, the accent thing was aiming for nutrality rather than having american actors trying to affect english/or where-ever accents... which I think is a great move! IF the actors have a good voice, let them speak in it, whatever their accent... that avoids Kevin Cosner Robin Hood type fiascos!

Personal Opinion: I'm not sold on the idea of a live action LOtR movie... Petyer Jackson is not the best director for a project like this.. most of his movies so far have been on the low end of fair to medium... And well, CGI tech isn't really good enough yet to be up to the challenge... (CGI stands for 'Crappy Graphics I'nit' BTW) The casting is for the most part very solid... Sir Ian, coming from Magneto in X-Men is gonna be the PERECT Gandlaf... I've decided to class myself as a 'hopeful pessimist' with regards these movies...

On the JRR music front... I can't believe anyone likes that Donald Swan Album... I'm in the process of MP3ing some of it up for posting on the Ringbearer site so the other fans there can see just how terrible a sence of music JRR actually had... He liked it, and put his 'stamp of apporval' on the album, but I'll be bugger'd if I can figure out why... It's terrible... I've worked very hard to block out the memory of that stuff on the off chance I can ever forget enough of LOTR to enjoy reading it agin...

And well, I'm ticked cause Tom Bombadil, my personal favorite character, isn't gonna be in the move at all... But I can also understand why he's been cut...

"You can't always get what you waaa-a-annt
But it ya try sometimes, Ya get what ya nee-eed!"

{~`

Did it work???


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 05:36 PM

the link is supposed to be http://www.fandom.com/ringbearer/

What the hell is up with this HTML sutff?????


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 06:23 PM

Being a bad girl, I did not read ALL of the above......but, IMHO, anybody who cannot deal with a UK accent, or any other does not need to see the movie. I have just hated ALL visual representations of JRRT. Especially the cartoon version that came out 20 odd years ago. I have my own idea of what all these people look like, and I prefer to keep it, thank you very much. (orcs should have a Russian accent, trolls a Scandinavian, Gandalf a very upper class British, hobbits are Cockney, elves French, maybe the WoodElves get Irish, Ents are Slavic,,,,,,,ah, never mind.)


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 06:25 PM

I'm mostly on yer side Sorcha!

{~`


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 06:30 PM

Hollowfox, I don't think there should be ANY translation from one English dialect to another. If the kids are too lazy to pick up a dictionary and look up a couple of words (as I enjoyed doing when I read "unusual" English words as a boy), I don't think they deserve to enjoy the book, anyways. It only makes them lazy readers. Same with the LotR movie, with the whole Arwen thing, and with the use of American accents (which, as you've all read, they're not going to do now, but which they originally HAD planned to use). It's dumbing it down so us dumb Americans don't have to try with anything, or to think too hard. Still very depressing. For me, at least. If those books are still around when my niece gets to whatever age group those are written for, I'll be sure to order her books from England. A few years after I buy her a couple really good dictionaries... :)

---Lepus Rex


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 06:32 PM

Right ON, Lepus!! Yer after me 'art, 'ere. Course, I started reading British stuff when I was about 8........


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 08:58 PM

I'm inclined to agree with you, Sorcha, though I think the hobbit accent ought to be rural (perhaps old-style Surrey or Sussex) rather than Cockney.  , Tolkien grew up in the Midlands, so he was probably thinking of something nearer to Cheshire (before it got posh.)  Does anybody remember the BBC radio adaptation of The Hobbit from the '60s?  I certainly had quarrels with some of the characterisation, but the music for the songs was absolutely spot-on: a much more earthy late-medieval flavour than Donald Swann's pieces.  Thanks, by the way, to Mbo for that other link; I can't get the preview on the "official" site to run, despite having the plug-ins...

I shall have to see the film, but, like the previous attempt (and, probably, the new X-Men film) I'm rather expecting to be impressed by the effects and disappointed by the interpretation.  Ah well; we shall see.

Malcolm


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 21 Jul 00 - 11:53 AM

I didn't know about the new Arwen angle, but I can understand why the producers wanted it, IMHO. My daughter is just the age I was when I became totally addicted and enchanted by LOTR- but being the girl of the 00's that she is, she's mad at the lack of strong women. Eowyn just isn't enough! Nor Galadriel, for that matter!


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Rana who SHOULD be working
Date: 21 Jul 00 - 03:22 PM

Sorcha,

Treading on dangerous ground when you try and place the accents to the characters (what accents do Russians see Orcs as having?) - though your choices could fit! I agree with Malcolm re. Hobbits and rural, I'd have placed them more with a Somerset accent, however.

As for a great book with loads of imagery moving to screen - 'tis always a risk. I never thought Gormenghast could be done (actually I always prefered this to LOTR). The BBC did a marvellous job on this (so I thought) and so indeed it can be achieved. From the clips on the web page it seems LOTR might also achieve this but we'll all have to wait and see.

Actually this all raises the comparison of "imagination" vs. "realism". I will always prefer Dr. Who (with its hokey sets) to the likes of Star Trek (all generations) which seemed to have more money to spend. The story lines in the former seemed so much more imaginative. But then again that's another thread maybe on another site.

Rana


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Hollowfox
Date: 21 Jul 00 - 03:23 PM

Well. Lepus et. al., I didn't say I'd have chosen to change the vocabulary. Not that anybody on the 'Cat is up for killing the messenger..it warms my heart to see feelings run high about the treatment of a book. And there's that puckish side of me that imagines if the language hadn't been altered. All those boys in their homemade costumes, with the Griffindor lion on the bodice, and pleated skirts...


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: BeauDangles
Date: 21 Jul 00 - 04:52 PM

Rana,

I have heard many wonderful things about the bbc version of Gormenghast. The one wonderful thing I have not heard about it is: Appearing now on a pbs channel near you. I can't find it anywhere, and I am royally pissed! Any plans to release it on video?

As for LotR, I am very excited about the prospects of this movie. So far my favorite non-print version of it is the BBC radio play which I quite enjoyed. The prformances were outstanding (including Ian Holm as frodo), and the special effects were incredible, largely becausethey were in my own head. But of the visual versions of the work, I think this will hands down be the best. I, too, am dismayed about some of the artistic changes that have been made, even though I can see the reasons for them. I am just happy that they did not pick Leo DiCaprio for any role in it. He would have even tarnished the role of Lotho Sackville-Baggins!

Beau


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Rana who SHOULD be working
Date: 21 Jul 00 - 05:06 PM

Hi Beau,

I saw Gormenghast on the Space Channel in Canada - they had the rights and showed it just after the BBC did in Britain. One major distraction was the number of commercials - WGBH Boston are on the credits but on e-mailing them they didn't know anything about it. BBC America premiered it last month. I asked them about video release and they referred me to their online shop for info - I hope it comes out over here eventually on video. It was released in Britain on video and DVD this past spring, however, the TV systems are different - just will have to wait (or use the fast forward, but I always overshoot).

Regards Rana


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Sorcha
Date: 21 Jul 00 - 05:54 PM

Yeah, on second thought, you guys are right about Hobbit accents, should be rural. I was just thinking about Eliza Doolittle and her delightfully "puckish" character. Remember, tho we Stoopid Americans can't usually distinguish a Somerset from an Exxex. That doesn't mean they can't use appropriate accents that UK'ers would recognize and apprceiate. Here's one for fun: I have no idea who is cast in this movie, but who would WE cast as whom? Sean Connery for Gandalf? (Sir Olivier, but not possible)Jane Seymour as Galadriel?


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Mbo
Date: 21 Jul 00 - 06:20 PM

Sorcha, SDShad has listed the principle actors portraying the characters further up in this thread. I am VERY happy with ther choices, except maybe Aragorn. But Hollywood has to make him a beefcake hero instead of a rough-looking "almost ugly" 80-year-old man, as Tolkien puts it. And yeah I know descendants of the Men of Westernesse lived longer than humans, but geez, anyone under 40 won't do in my book. But insiders say he's really good, so I'm looking forward to it...

--Mbo


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Sorcha
Date: 21 Jul 00 - 06:38 PM

Well,since I don't do movies much, forgive me if I have only heard of 3 of those people. Sorry, the Deaf Lady does not do theaters. Maybe Aragorn should be Sam Elliott with the proper Highland accent? LOL!


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Sorcha
Date: 21 Jul 00 - 07:31 PM

OK, I went to the movie site that Mbo sent me, and yes, they have done a very good job of casting. Let's hope the actual movie lives up to the advance billing. WHY can't they stick to the original story line, though? This drives me NUTSO (not that that is hard to do.......)What is this Arwen gizmo? Don't need it, JRR did not need it,anyway, to write a GREAT book. Movies just have to change something. Does anybody know how long this movie is? The mini series "Shogun" was 12 hrs, and left out a LOT!!


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Mbo
Date: 21 Jul 00 - 07:52 PM

Well Sorch, all together, we're looking at roughly 9 hrs.

--Mbo


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Sorcha
Date: 21 Jul 00 - 08:16 PM

Good grief!! Is this a Theater Release? or just a home Video? I can't imagine anyone sitting in a theater for 9 hours, or is is I, II, and III? I think I will join the cynical optimists here, and hope for the best!!


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Mbo
Date: 21 Jul 00 - 08:31 PM

It's three separate movies, to be released over the course of 3 years. Like the Star Wars movies are doing.

--Mbo


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 21 Jul 00 - 09:35 PM

Damn, when's the Gormenghast movie going to be on PBS??? I'm ashamed to say that I have stack of Mervyn Peake books sitting in storage, that I've had for 10 years or so and STILL haven't got around to reading all the way through. I have to hurry, eh?

---Lepus Rex


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: GUEST,Hilary in NZ
Date: 22 Jul 00 - 07:32 AM

Sorry I didn't get here earlier guys - but i am the bearer of bad tidings - the Hobbits will most likely have New Zealand accents!!
At least that's not as bad as Australian ones!!!! [:)] to Aussies reading!!!!
I'm just pissed off coz I auditioned as an extra, being 5' tall I thought I'd be a shoo-in. But I was told I wasn't wierd enough looking - a FIRST!!!
Most of New Zealand auditioned to be extras. We are very patriotic about the movies being made here. Most of New Zealand does in fact look like Middle Earth, or other places in the books - like the central mountains you will see in the internet clip. We are very proud of our bourgeoning film industry.
As far as the American accent and love interest thing - we are only 3 million not particularly well off people - and we (or Peter, actually,) had to get the money (very huge by NZ standards - Blair Witch was a monstrous budget by NZ standards!)somewhere!!! Tip - look out for Maori Orcs - VERY SCARY!!!


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Mbo
Date: 22 Jul 00 - 08:38 AM

Cool, Hilary! I was hoping we would get a first-hand account from our NZ 'Catters. Don't worry, being told you're not weird looking enough maybe a disapointment for not being in the movie, but in the long run it's a tremendous complement!

--Matt


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Jul 00 - 05:01 PM

More Lord of the Rings stuff is here. Celtic music on MP3


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jul 00 - 08:43 PM

Translating Harry Potter? I think that is really extremely insulting to Americans. When's the translation of Huckleberry Finn into cis-Atlantic English coming out? Or the dubbed version of Dumbo?

I quite liked the Bakshi movie. Not polished, and uneven and thrown together, but the orc armies were impressive nightmares.

I can never understand it when people roll about laughing at the idea of characters in odd settings having American accents, as if they were any more out of place than English accents or Irish accents or whatever. You even get it when the characters involved are supposed to be Romans, for example!

What is more important is that people who are supposed to come from one place and one culture have accents consistent with each other. I'm all for New Zealand hobbits. The Shire is a place where it feels pretty settled and the rest of the world seems a long way off. Sounds more like New Zealand than England these days.

I don't think Tolkien would have gone for orcs sounding Russian.He was at pains to point out that in no way was the Lord of the Rings to be taken as any kind of analogy of the Cold War. (If anything orc talk reads more as if they are Londoners than anything...)


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Mbo
Date: 22 Jul 00 - 08:52 PM

Yes, if you listen to the conversation between Shagrat and Snaga the orcs, they sound shockingly like modern jack-nasties, being rude and swearing like less-savory Cockneys, and not sounding mythological at all. A very jolting feeling when you see how the talk so much like some people you know...

--Mbo


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: GUEST,Wavestar
Date: 22 Jul 00 - 11:35 PM


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: GUEST,Wavestar
Date: 22 Jul 00 - 11:38 PM

Actually, Tolkien said in his memoirs and other places that he always wanted to expand Arwen and Aragorn's love plot, but couldn't figure out how to do it without changing the tone of the book... women weren't his strong point, so he gave up. I think he would approve. I don't like the idea of her as another warrior princess, since that steals Eowyn's thunder, but I think if it's done well, it won't be THAT bad.

And accents.. are just tags we mentally assign people. What matters is what they say. I, for one, am looking forward to the movies...

-J


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Naemanson
Date: 27 Jul 00 - 10:47 AM

When my older daughter was 10 years old I read The Hobbit to her. Over the course of the next year I read her the entire LOTR trilogy. Even today, we remember that time as special. I would settle on the couch after supper and she would climb into my lap with the current book clutched in her hands. I would sip my tea and read another chapter doing my best, when Tolkien wasn't doing it, to leave her with a cliffhanger at the end of the session.

I'm afraid to say that experience has warped her entire psyche. She now loves the worlds of faerey. She writes of dragons and swords, love and sorcery. We have been engaged in an ongoing game of Dungeons and Dragons for the last seven years. I would be ashamed of having done this to her but I am too proud of her to be able to dredge up any shame. As I told one friend, her life has been touched by fairey dust and that has made all the difference.

If anyone wants to read some of her stuff send me a PM and I will give you the college web site where it is located.

And we are optimistic about the movie. We expect it will not meet our full vision of the books and are only hoping for an acceptable interpretation.


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: GUEST,Banjo Johnny
Date: 27 Jul 00 - 02:39 PM

Three films, you say? This is PERFECT for our next (American) P.B.S. fund drive. Twenty minutes of Lord of the Rings, followed by:

"Ho, ho, ho!" intones the tuxedo-clad host, over a telephone-ringing soundtrack. "Isn't this just so wonderful!" He stands before a bank of listless volunteers costumed as hobbits and elves, pretending to answer the phones. "We'll get back to Frodo and his furry friends, right after we collect another two thousand dollars! And remember," he cautions, producing a Chinese-made ball cap, "for your contribution of $100, you'll receive this Official Gandalf cap! So keep watching Lord of the RINGS with us, and keep those phones RING-ing -- get it? -- haw haw!"

I can hardly wait. == Banjo Johnny


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Subject: SORT of the Rings
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 27 Jul 00 - 04:34 PM

And -THAT- is the reason that come pledge drive time, I find other stuff to watch...

Something tells me that it'll be a LOOOOONNNGGG time before you see this version of LOTR on PBS... New Line is aiming pretty high with this production... They have to to justify the $$ they are spending on what could be a huge flop! Some of us are hoping that after these movies come out, people will be asking, "George Lucas who?" and "Star Wars what?".

We should be so lucky eh!

{~`


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Hollowfox
Date: 27 Jul 00 - 05:15 PM

McGrath, I'd have liked the Bakshi one as well, except that it fell into the language trap that I dispise the most...bad teeth and poor diction for the servant class. Every time I remember Sam Gamgee saying something like "Coming, Mifter Phrodo!", I get mad again. Naemanson, you're not alone, my daughter (my boys too, actually) are well acquainted with various Otherworlds, and are probably more comfortable there, socially speaking, than they are in mundane places, like school.


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Tracey Dragonsfriend
Date: 28 Jul 00 - 04:49 AM

Maybe you'd be interested in this - a discussion that the website Mbo mentioned - TheOneRing - are having this weekend. Check out the link in the message above. This is the topic under discussion :

Hall of Fire Topic For the Weekend! - Tookish @ 19:55 PST

Here comes the latest from the Hall of Fire topic think tank:

Music and Middle-earth

From its creation down to the last chapter of Middle-earth's history, music is a powerful and significant presence in the writing of J.R.R. Tolkien. Music and song is a common theme not only to the passage of time in Arda, but also to all the peoples of Middle-earth. We find singing orcs, hobbits, dwarves, goblins, ents, elves, humans, gods, and demi-gods. I'll wager Sauron himself hummed a dark ditty as he crafted the One Ring at Mount Doom.

What does Tolkien achieve and evoke with all of this music and song? How is music used as metaphore, image, emotion, magic, or even substance? What resonnates with you and the music of Middle-earth?

On another note, do you ever listen to music while reading Tolkien? What kind and by whom? I have spoken with many people who enjoy playing a favorite composer as they read The Professor.

There are many bands who have been inspired by JRRT; one famous example is Led Zeppelin's Misty Mountain Hop, and Barliman's chatroom old timer Mongvar's favorite Blind Guardian. Enjoy any of that? Have you ever written any LotR-inspired music or lyrics?

We'll also explore music in Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings adaptation. The mucic on New Line's internet preview certainly caused a stir; what are your comments? What are you looking for in the score of the movies themselves? Do you want to see poems and songs from the text, or would you prefer they were left out? What appeals to you, a Braveheart-type score or something with more a more robust, operatic lean? Or perhaps you'd like to see something more modern, like the soundtrack to the film The Matrix.

Warm up those fingers and vocal cords and come join the throng. This chat is scheduled for Saturday, July 29, at 5:30 p.m. EDT [10:30 p.m. GMT]. If this time doesn't work for you, come to our European-time session, which is on Sunday, July 30, at 6:00 p.m. GMT [7:00 p.m. Central Europe Time and 1:00 p.m. EDT].


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: The Shambles
Date: 28 Jul 00 - 04:55 PM

I have posted this before, but you did ask... I first read the book whilst listening to 'Wee Tam and the Big Huge', by The Incredible String Band.

The two are now forever and inextricably linked in my mind. A little bit of best South-Farthing, Longbottom Leaf helped a little too. For I was a little partial to the old pipe-weed in my youth.


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 16 Jan 01 - 12:28 PM

The official web site is now up, and I'm very interested to hear some reaction:

Lord Of The Rings


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 16 Jan 01 - 01:02 PM

As a confirmed Tolkien-head, it is with trembling fear and loathing that I state that I will see at least the first section of this movie. I was burned by the 70s version, and have a very low opinion of movie versions of good books in general, based on my experience. But LotR is such a great book that I cannot refrain from giving this version a chance. But the word of the radical surgery being done on the plot does not predispose me in its favor.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Greyeyes
Date: 16 Jan 01 - 04:57 PM

I find different fan's reactions to this fascinating. Either there won't be a film, or it will be significantly different to the books. There is no middle way.

The BBC radio adaptation in the '80s was brilliant, but it sliced the book to pieces if you're a Tolkien scholar. It left out Bombadil, for a start, many people's favourite character. But much of the original text, including large chunks of dialogue, were left untouched. Overall the balance was right and it was an exeptional piece of radio drama.

I too am concerned about the Arwen as warrior princess development, but overall I'm relatively confident the project is in good hands. If someone like Matt R feels the same way I am even more reassured.

A few years ago the BBC adapted Martin Chuzzlewit for TV. They left out great chunks of one of the great works of English literature. The finished product was not Dickens' novel, but it was a fine piece of TV drama.

If you're expecting Tolkien's novels to be transcribed to the big screen unchanged, you will be disappointed. What we will hopefully get is an adaptation which respects the original source material, and doesn't stray too gratuitously from the text. Think positively.

Incidentally the music for the BBC radio version was composed by the late Stephen Oliver, much of it was excellent, certainly superior to the Donald Swann stuff.


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Jan 01 - 07:03 PM

The othher day I was reading the biography of the TV playwright Dennis Potter (by Humphrey Carpenter, who also wrote a life of Tolkien) - and I came across this:

Three of Dennis Potter's four great-grandfathers were Forest miners: Edward Potter of Shortstanding, Richard Hawking of the Lonk (adjacent to Berry Hill), and Thomas Howells, who had his own level (coalmine) at Readypenny, as well as being an innkeeper at Joyford.

Soundc familiar? So maybe the Hobbits should speak in the accents of the Free Miners of the Forest of Dean, which isin Gloucestershire, but across the Severn from the rest of England, and cut off by it from the rest of Gloucestershire, which is the next county to Oxford.


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: SeanM
Date: 16 Jan 01 - 07:09 PM

I'd heard something about the first full trailer being released with "13 days"... Anyone see it?

M


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: GUEST,Julia
Date: 16 Jan 01 - 09:14 PM

If anyone is interested, I have made melodies to many of Tolkien's songs.I'm a professional Celtic harpist / vocalist and have a great appreciation for the variations between the branches of Celtic music. There are such variations in my interpretations of Tolkien's "races". Although I have several recordings, I haven't recorded these as I am concerned about copyright etc. Anyone know the deal regarding this?


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 04:42 AM

Interesting that Ian Holm plays Bilbo - He played Frodo in BBC radio series! For whoever mentioned the radio production I think it was 70's, not 60's, as I listened to it in our second marital home - and I was wed in 1974.

I don't think the accents will matter too much - remember we are talking fantasy characters here after all and no-one has realy heard what they sound like. If anything I would agree with the conrtibutor who suggests they should be Warwickshire/Cheshire - the geography makes sense. (Shire - West midlands, Northern Wastes - Lake District/Lancashire, Mountains - Pennines, Mordor - London...;-))

I am looking forward to it and think that New Zealand will make it all the better - or am I the only one that appreciates Xena - Warrior Princess???

Cheers

Dave the Gnome (or is it dwarf???)


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 07:00 AM

Dave the Gnome - Xena is wonderful! The most anachronistic, entertaining, humourous piece of action adventure I have seen in a long time. (Buffy beats it though). New Zealand looks amazing. Willow was filmed there too. It has such a fantasy landscape. Very Narnia-ish.
As a film, Lord of the Rings certainly won't please everyone (the book was voted "Book of the Century" by Waterstone's customers). I think it would have been better to cast complete unknowns in it, as then there are absolutely no pre-conceptions about the actors and reality just will not intrude on the magic created on screen. I guess that just doesn't pay though...
In my first year at university we were asked in an English class what books played a major part in English literature. I said "Lord of the Rings" on the grounds that it threw the floor wide open for a whole new genre of writing (some good, some bloody awful) and was a favourite amongst many, adults and children alike. Very few people agreed with me. Most just looked at me as if I wasn't being pretentious enough - one of the reasons I gave up English (too many people walking around with difficult and pretentious novels in their back pockets, wearing black, chain smoking and claiming they'd rather sit in and study Proust than go down the pub and discuss Neighbours).
Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing it, but I don't think anything will ever be as good as reading it that first time...


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: harpmolly
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 01:04 PM

Okay, maybe I'm not the best one to post to this thread (my gluteus maximus is still significantly sore for the kicking I received when I mistakenly attributed Sting's "Cushie Butterfield" accent to Cockney--ouch!), but as an American anglophile, I am certainly insulted whenever I hear of anything being dumbed down for "my" sake--and it's happened more times than I can count.

I routinely spend twice as much as I normally would to buy Terry Pratchett's paperbacks in their UK editions, because his American publishers make me break out in hives (why the hell is it so important to take the "u" out of colour and honour? Damn you, Noah Webster! And the US cover art...blecch!). One of my favorite British musicals, Tim Rice's "CHESS," was pretty much eviscerated when it was "Americanized" for its Broadway run (even Judy Kuhn's brilliance couldn't save it altogether). I almost broke out in hives when I learned that my favorite movie--"Little Voice"--had almost been savaged by the casting of Gwyneth Paltrow (???) and Brad Pitt (?!?!?!) in the lead roles, instead of the wonderful Jane Horrocks FOR WHOM THE PLAY WAS WRITTEN (and, of course, my true-love Ewan McGregor, but that's another story).

Joanne Rowling was right to stick to her guns regarding the British casting of the Harry Potter movie, and I'm glad that LOTR is (at least, accent-wise) following suit. I can deal with American actors speaking in dialect as long as they're making a decent effort. But telling me that I'm expected to be too stupid and self-absorbed to comprehend someone speaking in a non-American ENGLISH accent really steams my dumplings. Next thing they'll be telling us that they're going to re-shoot "Gone With The Wind" in a flat Midwestern accent because all those Southern vowels are just too liquid for the majority of Americans. Just about equally ludicrous!

Sorry for the long-windedness, but this issue continues to infuriate me. Sigh.

All the best,

Molly


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 01:05 PM

So what do you think about the new official site?


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Les from Hull
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 01:27 PM

I think that if there are still any hobbits around the English countryside, they'd live in Borsetshire - just outside Penny Hassett.

Les


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 01:36 PM

"I think it would have been better to cast complete unknowns in it, as then there are absolutely no pre-conceptions about the actors and reality just will not intrude on the magic created on screen. I guess that just doesn't pay though..."

Well, that's more or less what they did with Star Wars when they started - apart from Alec Guinness, and a couple others who probably weren't too well known in America anyway. And they got away with it pretty well. Saved a lot of dosh to spend on special effects too.

I mentioned Dennis Potter - and that ties in with one of the themes in his thread, since they Americanised, and most people agree ruined, one of his best works, Pennies from Heaven when they made a movie out of it.

I don't get it - in America you've got the country with the most variegated people in the world, nobody is really foreign, in the sense that people are foreign in many countries. I mean yoi can't look at anyone and say "they must be from another country".

I could understand if people in some countries where everyone looks the same and talks the same and that couldn't get along with foreign films or understand different accents. But America? You must be kidding.

If you can't understand regional English accents, how the hell do ever manage if you get to New York?


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: mousethief
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 01:47 PM

That's easy. In New York, nobody talks to you.

There was something to that effect on the radio this morning. The guy said he was in New York on a visit, and determined to try to cheer some of those people up. So when the cashier at the grocery store gave him his receipt, he said, "Aren't you going to tell me to have a nice day?" The cashier said, "It's printed on the f****ing receipt, why should I say it?"

Alex


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Greyeyes
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 04:25 PM

Someone mentioned above re the US Harry Potter books: "the USA crowd would wonder why Mrs. Weasley sent Harry a hand-knitted jumper every year for a Christmas gift".

Can someone explain to me why this is the case? The Weasleys are poor and that's all they can afford, aren't there poor families in America? Or does "hand-knitted jumper" have some sinister hidden meaning. Or don't you have knitted jumpers? I'm intrigued.


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: MMario
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 04:33 PM

"jumper" in the US is a type of dress. whereas I believe what was sent is what we would call a "sweater"


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 04:38 PM

The official site... I avoid it like the plague...

The Ringbearer domain at Fandom.com... that's where I get my LOTR movie news... and the Message board is the best one I've EVER found!

;-)


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Greyeyes
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 04:46 PM

Aha, we call them sweaters as well, and pullovers, or woolly pully's for short. You can't have too many names for a woolen over garment, I always think.


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Burke
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 04:59 PM

In U.S. terms Mrs. Weasley would have been knitting a pullover sweater. A jumper is a sleeveless dress meant to be worn over a blouse.


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Greyeyes
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 05:26 PM

This is quite an old one, but some people may not have seen it.

In a recent press release to the world media, Jackson openly admits that he has thrown all caution to the winds and decided to "go with the flow" of Twentyfirst Century popular ethics. "I can't afford to offend anybody - even with all my new financial backing," Jackson confessed. "So I've decided to go with a 'modern' interpretation of Lord Of The Rings. Aragorn will be an African American, Arwen a feminist with latent lesbian tendencies. The dubious 'no-women-in-their-life' status of Merry and Pippin, Gandalf, Legolas, Gimli and Boromir will be brought out overtly and Eowyn's infatuation with Aragorn will be admitted as indicative of her Electra complex."

When pressed to reveal more of his "go with the flow" approach, Jackson freely declared that the Easterlings would be represented as an exploited people reacting against Numenorian imperialism, and Sauron as a charismatic leader with independent moral values, reflecting a unique cosmology that shouldn't be judged by White Male Hero standards. As for Orcs, Trolls, Uruk Hai and other "baddies", Jackson will be subtly directing the audience to sympathise with them as pre-scientific genetic experiments that went awry. "We should feel sorry for the Orcs," Jackson states. "It's not their fault they are so mean and nasty. They are the unfortunate results of a poor diet, a low socio-economic background and absent or negligent parenting. If anything, we ought to try to understand them rather than judge them... I mean, isn't that in the spirit of inclusion that characterises the current Western mood?"

Latest reports have it that Jackson's final scene will have Aragorn shaking hands with Gothmog and Gandalf leading the armies of Mordor in a rousing chorus of 'Kumbaja!' --


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 05:27 PM

Clinton, have you checked out the new official site?


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Gypsy
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 04:34 PM

More two cents worth....have a copy of The Middle Earth Songbook, will share tunes with any interested. Kinda trippy book. Published in 1976, by The American River College Science Fiction Club. Some is direct text, other is original


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Burke
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 05:12 PM

The movie isn't due until Dec. 2001? A fact found, BTW, more easily on the fandom page than on the official page. We're supposed to be excited about seeing a trailer? Maybe I don't go to movies enough, but I just can't seem to care what the site or the trailer are like. Wake me up when the movie's out. Greyeye's summary makes it sound kinda interesting.


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Hollowfox
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 05:25 PM

I've found this site useful for upcoming movies. They distinguish between rumor, opinion, and confirmed information.
http://filmforce.ign.com
No, the address doesn't have "www" in it. Dunno why. (I'd love it if somebody could turn it blue for me. Thanks in advance.)


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Greyeyes
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 05:26 PM

I've had a quick look at the official site, it's very dull, there are much better ones, with far more relevant info about the film.


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Callie
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 06:38 PM

Julia: I would be interested in hearing your music.

A friend has sought permission to record some Tolkein songs but the Tolkein estate forbids most recordings. This has caused much disappointment. It's worth looking into as I suspect the Tolkein estate would be more financially able to sustain a court case!

Callie


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Rizla the Green
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 06:42 PM

On the subject of accents, yes they are fantasy characters and it doesn't matter what the accents are, BUT... Tolkien himself said that The Shire was based on what he called Rural England..and therefore hobbits should have rural english accents. So There!


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: hesperis
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 08:04 PM

http://filmforce.ign.com

I get to play Link Fairy!


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Sorcha
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 08:22 PM

Hey, it can't be any worse than the cartoon version!! That's all I have seen. I have a friend who absolutely refuses to look at any pictures, movies, etc. of LOTR/Hobbit, because she is SURE she knows what they look like, and doesn't want her fantasies ruined. I kind of feel that way, but Aragorn as African doesn't seem too off base to me.......maybe it will be OK. I will see it at least once, just to give it a chance.

WHY is it that movies can't just follow the plot? or get it right? I am with Dave on this one. The mini-series of Shogun was a big dissapointment, although with 12 hours and Japanese actors it was better than 2 hr. movie. Oh well, just read the books. I haven't decided if I am going to see the Harry Potter movie or not......although with Rowling having final cut, it may be OK.


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: The Shambles
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 09:54 AM

It is getting ever closer.


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 10:40 AM

The trailer looked pretty good - I saw it when I went to Harry Potter. Sounded ok too. And, though I hesitate to say it, Enya's songs sounded as if they might work pretty well too.


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 11:00 AM

I STILL maintain that it was a HUGE mistake to NOT cast Billy Connolly as Gandalf. So there. And Hobbits have Herefordshire accents, as everybody knows ;-)


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Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings. Movie and songs.
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 09:10 PM

I don't think the English have an "accent" as much as a "coloration of speech" with some words not familiar to Americans or Canadians. But then, I'm from Milwaukee (wisconsin) and I usta live by Schusters where the streetcar bends the corner around. By where the bubbler is, by the bakery where they sell schnecks! Sweetrolls. Come by my house and holler me out when yous wants ta hang with me! I'll show ya around.

I sure hope them Hobbits ain't speakin' Amurican (what ever THAT is) Hit'l be a hard git-by sure enough! and anyway who sez we won't understand them Brits? have they forgotten that Monty Python was (and still is in some circles) the most popular comedy series ever in the US? At least at my house.

CB


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