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BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!

Mary in Kentucky 04 Jul 00 - 11:08 AM
catspaw49 04 Jul 00 - 10:59 AM
JedMarum 04 Jul 00 - 10:52 AM
Jeri 04 Jul 00 - 10:48 AM
GUEST,Mrrzy-who-lost-her-cookie-at-Mom's 04 Jul 00 - 10:48 AM
kendall 04 Jul 00 - 10:43 AM
catspaw49 04 Jul 00 - 10:41 AM
Willie-O 04 Jul 00 - 10:25 AM
JedMarum 04 Jul 00 - 10:17 AM
Callie 04 Jul 00 - 09:55 AM
GUEST,The Yank 04 Jul 00 - 09:51 AM
SDShad 04 Jul 00 - 09:51 AM
Callie 04 Jul 00 - 09:45 AM
catspaw49 04 Jul 00 - 09:37 AM
Gary T 04 Jul 00 - 09:19 AM
Callie 04 Jul 00 - 09:12 AM
Gary T 04 Jul 00 - 09:05 AM
MikeofNorthumbria 04 Jul 00 - 08:43 AM
Gary T 04 Jul 00 - 08:39 AM
kendall 04 Jul 00 - 08:39 AM
Gary T 04 Jul 00 - 08:37 AM
sophocleese 04 Jul 00 - 08:28 AM
GUEST,Auxiris 04 Jul 00 - 08:14 AM
Lepus Rex 04 Jul 00 - 07:39 AM
GUEST,andy mööer 04 Jul 00 - 07:17 AM
GUEST,Auxiris 04 Jul 00 - 07:16 AM
Scabby Douglas 04 Jul 00 - 06:31 AM
katlaughing 04 Jul 00 - 06:01 AM
Lepus Rex 04 Jul 00 - 05:55 AM
Micca 04 Jul 00 - 05:34 AM
Lepus Rex 04 Jul 00 - 05:19 AM
Helen 04 Jul 00 - 05:09 AM
GUEST,Auxiris 04 Jul 00 - 03:43 AM
Liz the Squeak 04 Jul 00 - 02:35 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 11:08 AM

Thanks Liz...and thanks for sharing your morning with us, Jeri. It's hot here in Kentucky, and a little rain, but I'm flying my flag between showers, singing Stars and Stripes Forever and watching fireworks on TV. There will be more fireworks all over town tonight. Oh yes, I'll eat some more watermelon and visit friends tonight. I'm not a beer drinker, but a friend routinely brings me bottles of wine from all over the world, and we'll hopefully uncork one tonight!


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 10:59 AM

I'd still rather focus on the similarities........

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: JedMarum
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 10:52 AM

Thanks Willie-O, we're still workin' on that taxation thing. Seems to be a very long term issue!


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 10:48 AM

We're referred to as Americans because of "United States Of." It might not be completely correct, but we're referring to the country, not the continent. I've been called an American by Canadians whom I've met, who seemed to prefer being called Canadians.

I've never heard of any USian who has seen the term "colonial" meant any way but humorously, until now.

This morning, I went to a small local store. They put on a free breakfast (eggs, bacon, potatoes, toast, fruit cups) for everyone who came. We played music. A couple of pipers in full regimental dress (on their way to an Event) stopped and played Amazing Grace. The flag was raised, and after a brief bit of history, The Declaration of Independance was read from the front steps of the store.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: GUEST,Mrrzy-who-lost-her-cookie-at-Mom's
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 10:48 AM

I'll reset it later. Anyway, just wanted to say this about that - in Spanish-speaking countries in Europe what are called Americans everywhere else seem to be called Norte Americanos - I guess to distinguish it from the rest of The Americas colonialized by Iberians. And blithely ignoring the Canadians, as does the term Americans. In the same vein, here is what I learned from my sister who attended Middlebury (Vermont):

Most places in the world, Yankee means American.
To an American, Yankee means Northerner.
To a Northerner, Yankee means New Englander.
To a New Englander, Yankee means Vermonter.
And to a Vermonter, Yankee means someone who doesn't like cheddar cheese on their apple pie.

The moral of the story is, terminology is relative, and note that AGAIN, Canada is ignored...


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: kendall
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 10:43 AM

It's important to think. Otherwise, we would be on a par with slugs. It's also important to know when to lighten up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 10:41 AM

I'd rather focus on our similarities......

Sorry....had to be said.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: Willie-O
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 10:25 AM

Oh fer chrissakes. We don't want to be Americans. That's why we live in Canada. We can tell the difference even if others can't! (This is the point where some well-intentioned American says 'I'd rather focus on our similarities'. Please spare us this remark.)

Why would native peoples of this continent want to be referred to by the name of an Italian navigator? They already have perfectly good names for their many and diverse nations.

Anyway happy fourth of July to Her Majesty's rebellious subjects in Central North America......hope the taxation n representation thing works out real soon. Then maybe we'll try it.

Willie-O


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: JedMarum
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 10:17 AM

Come on, folks; how can we take a light hearted, well wisher's best wishes for a grand national holiday and turn it into a discussion on political sesnitivities???

Enjoy the moment. Take the greeting for what it intended; a blessing for US Americans on their anniversary of their nation's independednce.

Thank you Liz! I appreciate your kind thoughts on this day, and enjoy your humor!

You know, I once told an English friend of mine that my favorite US holiday was Thanksgiving. He told me the British celebrate Thanksgiving too. I said, "They do?" and he said, "Ya, only we celebrate it on the Fourth of July, because that's when we got rid of you lot!"


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: Callie
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 09:55 AM

Thanks Chris, I've learnt something.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: GUEST,The Yank
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 09:51 AM

Only residents of the U.S. would be presumptious and preposterous enough (Can you spell "Hubris"?) to adopt the term "Americans" as pertaining solely to the residents of the United States- particularly as the only real "Americans"- the indigenous populations- were early on annihilated by their European Immigrant progenitors.

As to the psychological problems of U.S. citizens who takes offense at the term "colonials"- and who doubtless routinely refers to residents of the British Isles as "Brits" and residents of Scotland as "English", enough has been said above.

C'mon, folks....


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: SDShad
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 09:51 AM

Well, Callie, I can only speak to what I know of folks in Sioux Country, and that only the small sample with whom I'm personally acquainted.

For one thing, yes, a lot of Native Americans I think are offended by Columbus Day, at least, but in South Dakota we don't have Columbus Day in October, we have Native American Day. But as for July 4, I've never seen anyone who mourns it or is offended. For one, like all of us goofy hominid meat puppets, Natives are as willing as anyone to gather for the celebration of mutual cultural reference points. And of a lot of the Dakota, Nakota and Lakota I know, even ones who know their history quite well and can cite for you chapter and verse what's been done to them in the name of the United States, for all that you'd be surprised how much patriotism they often feel. Maybe it's the old warrior tradition, I don't know, but I've been told that South Dakota sent more young men per thousand population than any other state to the VietNam War, because of all the young men from the Sioux Federation who volunteered to "do their duty."

So yeah, Native Americans celebrate July 4, but not all. There are also White folks to whom this is just another day too, though.

Well, this here Wild Colonial Boy is off to celebrate at a local coffee shop with biscotti and cappucino. (So this is what they fought for?) :-)

Chris


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: Callie
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 09:45 AM

Dang, you're right Spaw. This 'thinking' business is no good at all. it won't do. Will see a mechanic about it first thing tomorrow.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 09:37 AM

Just shoot off a few firecrackers and say screw it. Geezis..............

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: Gary T
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 09:19 AM

Good question, Callie. I'm aware that many Amerinds find Columbus Day to be a sad occasion. My guess would be that Independence Day would not be mourned, as the damage was being done regardless of the form of government, but I don't know.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: Callie
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 09:12 AM

I'm interested to know what American Indigenous people might think about 4th July. Is it considered a celebratory day or another day of mourning?

Callie


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: Gary T
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 09:05 AM

Thank you, Mike, and enjoy Old Midsummer's Day.

As to your question--"America" is pretty universally understood to mean the U.S., and "American" to mean someone from the U.S. (noun) or related to the U.S. (adjective).

Technically, America is not a continent; South America is, as is North America. And technically, you are right, any resident of the Americas could indeed be called an American. Every other country in the Americas, however, has its own name for its people--Canadians, Brazilians, Mexicans, etc. as you mentioned. No specific name like this (such as "Usatians") has been realistically accepted to be applied to us Yanks. So, we end up being called Americans by default and widespread understanding (if not full agreement).

It's not perfect terminology, but it's so well established it's unlikely to change.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: MikeofNorthumbria
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 08:43 AM

Dear Mudcatters,

Can someone clarify exactly who is entitled to be called "an American"? According to my geography teacher, America is a continent, not a nation, and therefore Canadians, Mexicans, Brazilians etc are all bona fide Americans. So how should we address our American friends who happen to be citizens of the USA? "Dear Usatians?" Anyway, whatever you call yourselves, have a good time on the 4th of July.

The 4th of July, incidentally, is also Old Midsummers Day - that's going by the Julian Calendar. Over here, the more traditionally minded among us will mark the occasion with bonfires, and also with ale, feasting, and general merrymaking. (Including hobby-horses, green men, and the obligatory morris dancers.) Enjoy it while you can - next year it may be illegal!

Wassail!


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: Gary T
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 08:39 AM

Whoops! Thank you Micca and Doug, as well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: kendall
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 08:39 AM

Aux, which "Americans" are you talking about


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: Gary T
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 08:37 AM

I guess I saw it in a different light. I took it as lighthearted, almost nonsensical--and refreshingly different, as I don't recall being called a "colonial" before. But of course, we each have our own perspective, which keeps life from being boring.

Anyway, thank you Liz for the good wishes. Fight-free should be no problem, but I'll have to contemplate "that drinking thang" between beers (BG).

Am I the only curmudgeon Yank who would just as soon not hear various fireworks going off at odd times throughout the week? Hate to spoil anyone's fun, but it sure is annoying. (Just ask the pets!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: sophocleese
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 08:28 AM

Irony, wit, friendly joking name-calling, read a few of LTS former postings and you'll see all of the above. No need to get upset Aux, remove the sting, and enjoy the sentiment. Think how pleasant it is for someone on the other side of the pond to be wishing you a happy celebration for today instead of grinding their teeth in anger and frustration.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: GUEST,Auxiris
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 08:14 AM

L. Rex. . . hi, didn't take it as an attack no need to be sorry, but to explain further, may I just say that I found it rather tactless for someone who lives in England (is that right Liz?) to wish American folks "happy holiday" for their independence day celebration and then turn around and call call them colonials as if America was still a British colony. . .

cheers,

Aux


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 07:39 AM

Aux... Sorry if it sounded like I was attacking you---that's not what I intended at all. I just thought that it was interesting that some found the terms offensive, and I was wondering why they would. Your entry just made me curious, not angry or anything. So, sorry again. :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: GUEST,andy mööer
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 07:17 AM

I'm not nationalistic enough to be offended by the use of 'colonial' .I think it can be ok to stir sometimes (especially when the polenta is getting thick)- - That allmost sounds sublime but it's just nonsense, sublime nonsence?.subliminal nonsence, submarine nonecelance(no idea how to spell that,not 'THAT' but that other thing).


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: GUEST,Auxiris
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 07:16 AM

Yes, Aux is an American; no, Aux does not live in America any longer but finds all those reference words mentioned above to be either inaccurate at best or relatively offensive at worst. Aux is also very sorry to have included anyone else's opinion in the post and aplogises profusely. Should have only been speaking for myself, but I did think I was polite, at least and I don't see why people can't just say "American" when they want to refer to people from America.

cheers,

Aux


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 06:31 AM

No-one from UK could use the term "Colonial" in anything other than an ironic sense..

It was only meant as a joke, in the same way that people will often use "old Bean" or "pip-pip" in conversation with an English person, or tease a Scot about haggis...

Anyway - Happy Fourth of July to all of you from all of us..

Cheers


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 06:01 AM

Well just to stir the pot a bit, thanks to all of you "royalist diehards" for helping us to celebrate our freedom from such as you labour under!**BSEG** Oh and you can call me any of those, no offense taken; besides that at least half of my ancestors fled north to Nova Scotia to fight on your side! Hahaha....Happy Fourth of July Everybody!!

katlaughing


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 05:55 AM

Yanks, Colonials, Johnny Rebs? Honestly, Aurixis is the first American (If Aurixis is an American... Sorry, if I'm wrong) that I've ever seen take offense to one of those words. Maybe I'm just such an arrogant bastard that it takes a lot to offend me, but those words are pretty damned tame compared to the slurs Americans use for other nationalities.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: Micca
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 05:34 AM

Is Colonials more or less offensive than Yanks,Yankees, Johnny Rebs,or any of the many terms used for Americans around the world? Should it perhaps have been expressed as Former Colonials? anyway, Happy day to you today and, a bit late, I know, but to the Canadians for their National day 1st of July..


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 05:19 AM

How is 'colonials' offensive? Just curious:)


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: Helen
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 05:09 AM

Besides, LTS, we Colonials in Oz don't celebrate 4th July.

Helen


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: GUEST,Auxiris
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 03:43 AM

Thanks for the holiday best wishes, Liz, but could you please not refer to Americans as Colonials the next time? Many of us find that quite offensive.

cheers, Aux


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Subject: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 02:35 AM

Happy 4th of July to all those on the other side of the pond - don't you be doing all that drinking thang, now! Remember, it's work tomorrow just the same!!

Have a good, and above all, fight free Fourth!

LTS


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Mudcat time: 27 November 7:18 PM EST

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