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Origins: Bogie's Bonny Belle

DigiTrad:
BOGIE'S BONNIE BELLE


Related thread:
Scottish song - Bogie's Bonnie Belle (51)


In Mudcat MIDIs:
Belle's Bonnie Bogie


r.padgett 29 Mar 21 - 11:45 AM
Hamish 29 Mar 21 - 04:30 AM
GUEST,James Phillips 28 Mar 21 - 11:47 AM
GeoffLawes 27 Mar 21 - 06:29 PM
GUEST,Mary Scott 27 Mar 21 - 02:22 PM
GUEST,henryp 27 Mar 21 - 10:49 AM
The Sandman 27 Mar 21 - 09:38 AM
Reinhard 27 Mar 21 - 08:50 AM
GUEST,Mary Scott 27 Mar 21 - 08:18 AM
GUEST,Keith Price 18 Jan 21 - 06:01 AM
GUEST,SarahT 17 Jan 21 - 10:51 PM
GUEST,Clive Pownceby 16 Jan 21 - 08:52 AM
Joe Offer 16 Jan 21 - 05:33 AM
GUEST,Clive Pownceby 14 Jan 21 - 03:33 PM
The Sandman 14 Jan 21 - 02:42 AM
GUEST,Mary Scott 11 Jan 21 - 07:57 AM
GeoffLawes 27 Dec 20 - 11:35 AM
Tattie Bogle 27 Dec 20 - 11:29 AM
GUEST,jim bainbridge 27 Dec 20 - 06:45 AM
GUEST,henryp 27 Dec 20 - 06:15 AM
Tattie Bogle 27 Dec 20 - 04:43 AM
GUEST,jim bainbridge 26 Dec 20 - 09:49 AM
GUEST,James Phillips 25 Dec 20 - 04:23 PM
C Stuart Cook 08 Jul 14 - 02:39 AM
syd67 24 Feb 11 - 01:36 AM
The Sandman 19 Feb 11 - 02:17 PM
MRyer 19 Feb 11 - 01:48 PM
The Sandman 19 Feb 11 - 12:34 PM
MartinRyan 18 Feb 11 - 12:37 PM
Ross Campbell 03 Jul 09 - 02:36 AM
Art Thieme 02 Jul 09 - 09:12 PM
Art Thieme 02 Jul 09 - 09:09 PM
GUEST,Barney 02 Jul 09 - 07:11 PM
goatfell 14 May 09 - 09:47 AM
ossonflags 14 May 09 - 09:40 AM
GUEST,Robert Black of Sticky Willie 14 May 09 - 09:10 AM
GUEST,Dave MacKenzie 11 Sep 08 - 06:50 PM
Bryn Pugh 11 Sep 08 - 06:20 AM
Vic Smith 11 Sep 08 - 05:48 AM
davyr 11 Sep 08 - 05:33 AM
Malcolm Douglas 10 Sep 08 - 10:51 PM
Effsee 10 Sep 08 - 10:22 PM
Jim Dixon 10 Sep 08 - 06:34 PM
Bryn Pugh 10 Sep 08 - 05:50 AM
The Sandman 09 Sep 08 - 02:00 PM
GUEST,Robert Black of "Sticky Willie" 09 Sep 08 - 01:24 PM
GUEST,Eoin 20 Jul 05 - 10:51 AM
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Subject: RE: Origins: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: r.padgett
Date: 29 Mar 21 - 11:45 AM

Yes full story in current Living Tradition ~ just received

Ray


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: Hamish
Date: 29 Mar 21 - 04:30 AM

Aye, weel.... looks like she did find "a better match"! Her tinkler lad turned out pretty well. Thanks for all that: I will certainly make use of the information when I perform the song :-)


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: GUEST,James Phillips
Date: 28 Mar 21 - 11:47 AM

Looks like the Mainly Norfolk page has been updated with versions presumably from this thread, since there wasn't nearly that many versions listed when I last looked at it late last year.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 27 Mar 21 - 06:29 PM


the lyrics sung by a lot of different singers can be seen on the Mainly Norfolk site
https://mainlynorfolk.info/june.tabor/songs/bogiesbonniebelle.html


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: GUEST,Mary Scott
Date: 27 Mar 21 - 02:22 PM

In reply to Reinhard, There are no actual inconsistencies in Belle's name. The variants of Isabel, Isabelle and Isabella were all taken from official records referring to the same person


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 27 Mar 21 - 10:49 AM

Issue 138 of The Living Tradition has safely arrived, complete with The True Story of Bogie's Bonny Belle, plus their calendar of virtual and even real folk festivals.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Mar 21 - 09:38 AM

well done Mary


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: Reinhard
Date: 27 Mar 21 - 08:50 AM

Well done! But it's a pity that the article hasn't been proofread/edited before publication in Living Tradition, eliminating inconsistencies (the heroine is called Isabel, Isabelle and Isabella) and duplications (two consecutive sentences say that her father died at age 83; two times it is mentioned that Deveron Arts now owns the place where she lived).


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: GUEST,Mary Scott
Date: 27 Mar 21 - 08:18 AM

This article is now in the latest edition ( issue 138) of the Living Tradition. I also added in information on the writer of the song and comments about variations in the words of the song. Also a photo of Belle's grave at the beautiful kirkyard at Dunbennan near Huntly


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: GUEST,Keith Price
Date: 18 Jan 21 - 06:01 AM

Excellent! Thank you Mary Scott.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: GUEST,SarahT
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 10:51 PM

So many thanks to Mary Scott for this research. I cried reading it - what a joy to know that Isabelle and her baby both had long, prosperous lives and plenty of family. Not what I had imagined, given the song.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 08:52 AM

As I said, 'impressive' though the word doesn't come anywhere near paying adequate tribute to Mary's research. I haven't sung this song in a long while but that's going to be rectified!


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 05:33 AM

Mary sent her wonderful piece of research to me and gave me permission to post it. Guess I'm going to have to explore Aberdeenshire more deeply. I hope that will happen in a couple years.
Thank you, Mary!
-Joe-

    The true story of Bogie’s Bonnie Belle
    Bogie’s Bonnie Belle is a traditional love song written in 1859 or later, written from the point of view
    of a farm worker who went to work for farmer Bogie of Cairnie parish near Huntly. He fell in love with
    Bogie’s daughter Isabelle and she had a baby.
    I was familiar with this beautiful song but I didn’t realise that Belle was a real person, not just a
    character in a song. It was singer Ken McNaughton who used to live in Huntly, who told me that Belle
    later in life lived in a property at The Square, Huntly. This is what sparked my research. It was 22/23
    The Square where she lived, which later became a department store The Square Deal which was
    recently bought by Deveron Projects.
    This story has several characters, Belle, her strict father Old Bogie, her baby son James and the son’s
    father James and his brother, the baby’s uncle John. Also the tinker lad who Belle married.
    Belle was Isabel Morison. She was born in Cairnie parish, Aberdeenshire on 20th September 1823. Her
    father was Alexander Morison (1783 – 1866) and her mother’s maiden name was Jean or Jane Runcie.
    Isabelle grew up at Boghead in the parish of Cairnie, Aberdeenshire. In the 1851 census Isabelle was
    aged 27 and still in the family home. She was described just as “ unmarried daughter” although she
    had borne an illegitimate child in 1843.
    The existing information says the story from the song is from 1843. This seems correct as there is a
    birth record for James Stephen, born in Cairnie on 10th June 1843 to Isabel Morison and James Stephen
    who was from Glass. There are no other listings for births for Isabella until much later and there was
    no marriage record for Isabel and James.
    Baby James
    Regarding Isabelle’s first baby James Stephen, there was no record of this child living with his mother.
    Isabelle still lived with her parents at census time in 1851 when James would have been 7.
    James was brought up by his paternal uncle John Stephen, an agricultural labourer, in the nearby
    parish of Glass. On the 1851 census James is described as a scholar (7) along with his cousins George
    (7) and Margaret (5). School fees would have been charged so it is commendable that his uncle’s family
    were generous.
    By 1851, John Stephen had been widowed and his mother, tailor’s widow Margaret Stephen nee
    Achnach, seemed to have moved in to look after the children. As James had young James to look after
    as well as a wife Agnes and baby William, it seems that it was better for James junior to live with his
    uncle and granny next door.
    James was a ploughman at 17 when he was still listed on the 1861 Glass census. In 1866 he was living
    at Tullynessle when he married farmer’s daughter Elizabeth Henderson who lived at Contlach,
    Auchindoir. They lived in Lumsden in 1871 and Rhynie in 1881. They had 10 children.
    The evidence shows that sadly James Stephen might not have known much about his mother or the
    drama around his birth. His marriage certificate refers to his mother Isabelle as deceased when she
    was in fact still alive. Or maybe he did not want his in-laws to know his story. So his mother was
    certainly not at his wedding !
    After 1881 the family moved to Edinburgh where James became a stone mason/stone cutter in
    addition to some of his sons in the 1901 census.
    His wife Elizabeth died in 1902 aged 54. James and his youngest daughter Beatrice aged 17
    He emigrated on 7th October 1905 after he became a widower and shortly after his uncle John died.
    He was a stone mason in Cleveland Ohio in 1910.
    Old Bogie
    Isabelle’s father was a farmer of 28 acres or more. He was referred to as Bogie or Old Bogie after the
    name of the house, Boghead. He lived to 83 and his wife Jean was 11 years younger. Old Bogie died
    of old age in 1866 at Boghead, aged 83. His parents were John Morrison, a mason, and Ann Currie.
    Evidence adds to the story that Isabelle’s father “ Old Bogie” was somewhat unkind. There is no
    record of the child living with his mother at all. This lends credence to the versions of the song which
    have the father remove the child from the maternal home. There is also evidence that the child might
    have been told that his mother was dead.
    Isabelle’s marriage to her tinker lad
    Isabelle left the family home later in 1851 when she married her “ tinkler chap” James Bowman. Born
    in Old Machar, Aberdeenshire about 1822 he had many practical skills so it seems that he was indeed
    a tinker. He is not listed on any local census in 1841 or 1851 so he was probably generally travelling
    around with his trades until then.
    He established the Rothieden Lamp and Tinplate Works, at The Square, Huntly, in 1851. He was also
    a master plumber. In 1891 his occupation is described as Lamp Manufacturer. He became a wellknown tinsmith in Huntly, and was famed for his lamps and lanterns, which are named after him,
    'Bowmans'.
    In the censuses of 1861 - 1881 “ Bogie’s Bonnie Belle” Isabelle and her family lived at 22/23 The
    Square, Huntly, sharing the building with their domestic servant (s) and another family. By the 1881
    census James Bowman employed 11 men, 9 boys and 1 girl.
    By 1891 they had moved to a much bigger house at Springbank, Bogie Street and in 1892 Isabelle’s
    husband James Bowman became the first Provost of Huntly. By then the lamp manufacturing business
    in The Square was largely being run by their son.
    The 1861 household included James Bowman, his wife Isabella and three children, Isabella Gordon
    Bowman, Anna Bella Bowman and Jane Runcie Bowman. Another child James was born in 1862. Why
    James ? There was a rigid naming system used then but not always adhered to. Sometimes “repeat”
    names were used in memory of older siblings who died. Was the first James “dead” to Isabella ?
    Not even a middle name to differentiate him from the older James, despite his sisters having middle
    names.
    Isabelle died on 23rd April 1902 and is buried along with her husband ( who died 16th March 1900 ) and
    some of their children at Dunbennan Kirkyard which is outside Huntly.
    Uncle John Stephen
    John was a crofter by 1861 and living with his second wife Janet and daughter Margaret. Uncle John
    died on 25th August 1905 at 12 Old Road, Huntly. He was aged 95
    Baby James’ father
    James Stephen senior was born in Glass parish near Huntly in 1810 and died at Greenhowe, Glass in
    1883. He was a crofter most of his adult life and in 1881 he had 20 acres, 5 arable. He married Agnes
    Walker in October 1850. She was 16 years younger than him and they had 7 children.
    So who wrote the song ?
    As he got married the year before his ex beloved Isabelle, it is unlikely that James wrote the song as
    the song refers to her marriage to her tinker lad. His wife would not have appreciated him pining
    away for Isabelle after their marriage. So who wrote this song and why ?
    (page 518) from Gavin Greig's MS:
    'Written originally by John Geddes, foreman at Boghead of Cairnie, fifty-four years ago (i.e. 1859) .
    Believed to have been himself here. Copy from G. Stevenson, Mill of Towie, Auchindochy, Keith.
    Extracted from Farm Servant Magazine 1913.'
    According to my census data research there was indeed a John Geddes, crofter/farmer who lived
    next door to Boghead at Mains of Botary in 1841 and 1851. No trace of him there at 1861 census.
    At the 1841 census he was on the same page as young Isabella Morrison.
    The editors also quote information supplied by Peter Hall, as follows:
    “ A locally made song, though set to older tunes; in the early C20 it seems that some of the people
    involved were still remembered, though local tradition may have confused their identities a bit “
    Other Information
    The Huntly Express covered this story in 2019 when I started the research and then singer Shona
    Donaldson and Paul Anderson did a U tube video at Belle’s grave and Shona sang the first verse of the
    song. The web link is
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROVQVIWw6Jg
    Shona as a schoolgirl would take a packed lunch and cycle up to this graveyard at school lunchtimes
    on sunny days, not realising that Belle was close by. She would have been familiar with the song then.
    Deveron Projects who now own the building that Belle’s family lived in, are an arts organisation who
    employed Shona in 2010 to host a bothy ballad bus tour of notable north east locations. Little did
    they know that the building they were to buy many years later would have great significance too.
    References:
    Huntly Express 13/01/2021 re Shona’s tour. Scotland’s People, The Mud Cat Café ( Malcolm Douglas
    10th Sept 2008) gives info from Gavin Greig MS p 518, Farm Servant magazine 1913 and Peter Hall.
    The link for Shona and Paul’s video is also on Huntly Histories Facebook posted on July 2019.
    I also thank the following for their help with this research: Ken McNaughton who knew the link with
    Belle and Huntly Square. Patricia Newman social history author, The Aberdeen and N.E. Scotland
    Family History Society (ANEFHS) members forum especially Allan Hepburn and other members and
    volunteers. Also singer Archie Fisher who inspired my love of the song in the late 1960s.
    Mary Scott
    Huntly
    Information updated 14/01/2021


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 03:33 PM

I echo Sandman's response Mary. Impressive research. Thanks so much for the email.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 02:42 AM

Thankyou for sending it to me Mary.
A fascinating story


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: GUEST,Mary Scott
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 07:57 AM

In case anyone's interested I have done research into the story of Bogie's Bonnie Belle. The real people involved. I am happy to share my research. Please get in touch by e mail if you are interested

Mary.Scott@phonecoop.coop


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 27 Dec 20 - 11:35 AM



RE ossenflags post above
"the late great Ian{Jock} Manual" Jock was Ian Manuel ( with an e). Jock's version of BBB is here on Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r1nCeaJW4Y&list=PLv9sIudFOhtZvqNwXbqvN7QfQrtxRNIwC&index=9


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 27 Dec 20 - 11:29 AM

Allan Taylor is doing his weekly slot on Facebook right now, and has just sung......BBB!


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Subject: R E: Lyr Req: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 27 Dec 20 - 06:45 AM

Davy Stewart ( 'the galoot' as Jimmy McBeath called him- their banter was priceless) was a popular guest at the Sunday night Marsden Inn club- the late Jim Irvine was a great fan. On one visit, we couldn't get him a Saturday night so we took him to our Rattlers ceili booking at Durham University. He was amazing as our guest singer, but not sure what the students made of it.
   Bob Davenport persuaded him to do some clubs in London- he disappeared from his accommodation one afternoon but turned up at the club on time- 'jist doon playin' a bit doon yon Oxford Street'
An inspiration to me- I think my version of BBB owes a lot to him- once heard, never forgotten!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 27 Dec 20 - 06:15 AM

We spent one holiday at Leith Hall, just outside Huntly, and next the Ardmore distillery producing the principal component of Teacher's Highland Cream.

But the children enjoyed everything that Strathbogie had to offer!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 27 Dec 20 - 04:43 AM

Lots of good versions from various Scots singers, not all of whom have made CDs, but are regularly heard around festivals and singers’ gatherings.
Geordie Murison, Joe Aitken, Hector Riddell, Allan Taylor (not the one from Brighton!), Jim Taylor, Jock Duncan - and representing the ladies, Shona Donaldson, Iona Fyfe, Kate Taylor. Apologies to anyone I’ve missed!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 26 Dec 20 - 09:49 AM

This song was identified with Davy Stewart's distinctive version, although there were (and are) certainly other versions around.
   Christy Moore's take on it is more or less as Davy's, which is not surprising really. He was much taken by Davy when the Marsden Rattlers of South Shields took him up to the Blairgowrie festival in 1969- he was thrilled to meet the 'source singers' at that festival, so I've little doubt he picked it up then.

As we drove through Coupar Angus on the Friday afternoon en route to the festival, there was Davy busking on a street corner! We picked him up & took him to Blair, so they met early on at the festival!
Finbar & Eddie Furey had been living in Edinburgh long before that & their source could be the same, or not?
   Christy was on the RTE John Murray radio morning show about five years ago & there was an invitation to call & ask for a song. The usual stuff came up- 'Ride On'- 'Sonny' etc, so I thought I'd test him & called in for 'Bogie's Bonnie Belle'.
No hesitation, there it was, 46 years later....


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Subject: ADD Version: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: GUEST,James Phillips
Date: 25 Dec 20 - 04:23 PM

Let me just add another variant of the lyric, this time as sung by Rod Paterson of Jock Tamson's Bairns. I couldn't find this particular variant online anywhere so did my best to pick it out from the recording, any corrections would be welcome!

BOGIE'S BONNIE BELLE

Ae Whitsun morn in Huntley Toon 'twas there I did agree
Wi' Bogieheid o' Carnie, twelvemonth for tae fee
To drive his twa best horses, and to cairt and carry and ploo,
And dea onything o' farming work I very weil could do

Bogie had a dochter, her name was Isabelle
She was the floo'er o' the valley, the primrose o' the dell
She had rosy cheeks and ruby lips and hair the raven's hue
She was neat, complete and handsome, aye and comely for tae view

When she gaed oot walking, she took me for her guide
Doon by the burn o' Carnie where the silver fishes glide
I put my arm aboot her waist and tae the ground did slide,
And there I had my first braw nicht, wi' the belle o' Bogieside

When three months were passed and gone, this lassie lost her bloom
And the rid fell frae her rosy cheeks, and her een began to swoon
And when nine months were passed and gone, she brought forth to me a son,
And I was quickly called for tae see what could be done.

I said that I would marry her, but no that wouldnae dae
For you're no' a match for my bonny belle, and she's no' a match for ye
He sent me packing doon the road, wi'oot my penny fee
Sae fareweel ye lads o' Huntley side, a lang fareweel tae ye

And noo she's married tae a tinker chiel, wha bides in Huntley toon
He mends pots and pans and paraffin lamps, an' he scours the country roon
And maybe he's gotten her a better match, auld Bogie cannae tell
But it's me wha stole the maidenheid fae Bogie's bonny belle


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: C Stuart Cook
Date: 08 Jul 14 - 02:39 AM

Just looking for the words and this thread came up.

The first version I heard, and as is the way of things, still the one that sticks, was by big Pete Rogers of The Taverner's. A superb singer within the group and even better unaccompanied.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: syd67
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 01:36 AM

Mr. Ryer, that's my youtube channel (not trying to self-promote here, though it may sound like it) that you found Robin Dransfield singing BBB on. And I'll say cheers! I'm glad I could help some people with the lyrics. I first heard him sing the tune on pandora, and bought the CD as soon as I could. I'm so glad that so many people still listen to this type of music as opposed to other kinds. I've put the rest of his album up as well, and will post Barry's LP 'Barry Dransfield' when I get a chance.
(I'm new here, but if this post seems irrelevant, I'll delete it as soon as I'm told to.)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Feb 11 - 02:17 PM

with respect, the verse the lily of the valley and the primrose of the dell is far more poetic than Robin Dransfields version, [imo] mRobins interpretation is superior to Christys.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: MRyer
Date: 19 Feb 11 - 01:48 PM

I've been singing BBB for a number of years. The tune and phrasing I use are heavily influenced by Louis Killen. But I had lost track of where I had "lifted" the verses. I was thinking it was from a vinyl recording of the Dransfield brothers. Because of this thread, I searched YouTube for BBB by the Dransfields and this turned up:


Robin Dransfield's Bogie's Bonnie Belle

To my delight, the lyrics are almost identical to the ones I've been singing!! So I will attribute the lyrics to Robin Dransfield.

This version is different from many because it has two or three verses between "losing her bloom" at three months and bringing forth a son at nine months. These verses describe the lad being sent packing by Bogie just before the feeing term was up - with no fee paid, of course. (He's called back at nine months to deal with the birth.)

Worth a listen, at least.

While the guitar is tasteful, I prefer it unaccompanied.

Mark Ryer


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Feb 11 - 12:34 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrwfuveekG0 Dick Miles


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: MartinRyan
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 12:37 PM

Nice 1979 video of Christy Moore singing this HERE

Regards


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 02:36 AM

You can't have too much of a good thing. Great thread.
Ross


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: Art Thieme
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 09:12 PM

Damn, I forgot I posted about Lou K. doing this song a long time ago. sorry.
Art


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: Art Thieme
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 09:09 PM

It is a fine song!

And my favorite singer of it is Lou Killen!

Art


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Subject: ADD Version: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: GUEST,Barney
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 07:11 PM

These are the original bothy ballad lyrics, as performed by Jim Reid on the simply amazing album "I saw the wild geese flee"
Still available, see -
http://www.musicscotland.com/cd/jim-reid-i-saw-wild-geese-flee-musicscotland.html
If you have not heard this recording, you should (and I have no commercial connection)

It's nothing to do with Bogheid - that's another song on the album

""""


BOGIE'S BONNIE BELLE

Ae Witsuntide at Huntly toun,
'Twas there I did agree,
Wi auld Bogieside, the fairmer,
A sixmonths for tae fee.

Noo Bogie wis a hungery chiel,
An this I knew fu well;
But he had a lovely dochter,
An her name wis Isabelle.

Noo Belle she wis the bonniest lass,
In aa the countryside;
It wis very soon I lost ma hert,
Tae the Belle o Bogieside.

An often in the summertime,
I'd wander wi ma dear;
Tae watch the trouties loupin,
By Bogie's water clear.

I taen her by the middle sma,
An I ca'd her ma wee dear;
'Twas there I taen ma will o her
By Bogie's water clear.

Noo nine lang months had passed an gane,
An she brocht forth a son;
An auld Bogie he sent efter me,
Tae see what could be done.

I said that I wad mairry her,
But na, that wad nae dae;
For I'm nae match for Bogie's Belle,
An she's nae match for me.

An noo I've left auld Huntlyside,
I've even broke ma fee;
For I couldna bear tae see ma dear
Condemned tae misery.

Noo I hear she's wad tae a tinkler chap
That cam ower fae Huntly toun;
An wi jeely pans an ladles
She scoors the country roun.

An mebbe she's gotten a better lad,
Auld Bogie canna tell;
Sae fareweel ye lads o Huntlyside
An Bogie's Bonnie Belle.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: goatfell
Date: 14 May 09 - 09:47 AM

what about the corries version


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: ossonflags
Date: 14 May 09 - 09:40 AM

No one has mentioned the version done by the late great Ian{Jock} Manual
recorded by Topic 12TS220 The Frosty Ploughshare.For me the best version and the one I sing.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: GUEST,Robert Black of Sticky Willie
Date: 14 May 09 - 09:10 AM

'Tis the nature of Folk Music now & in the past & probably the future , to take established tunes & lyrics & meld them into a local tradition or story. Robert Burns never wrote an original tune in his whole prolific life !! Enjoy it all & if the need takes you, change what you already know, to that which will amuse/entertain your audience/friends. THAT IS FOLK MUSIC !!!( The telling of tales )


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Subject: ADD Version: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: GUEST,Dave MacKenzie
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 06:50 PM

BOGIE'S BONNIE BELLE

As I gaed up to Huntly toon
Ae morning for a fee
I met Bogheid o' Cyarnie;
Wi' him I did agree.

To work his twa best horses,
Cart or harrow or plough,
Or anything aboot fairm work
I very well could do.

Auld Bogie had a dochter,
Her name was Isabelle;
The floo'er o' the valley
And the primrose o' the dell.

And when she went oot walking
She choosed me for her guide
Down by the burns o' Cyarnie
To watch the fishes glide.

The first six months had past an' gone,
The lassie lost her bloom;
The red fell from her bonnie cheeks
An' her eyes begin to swoom.

The neist nine months were scarcely o'er
She brought forth to me a young son
And I was quickly sent for
To see what could be done.

They said I should marry her
But Losh! that wouldna dae,
Sayin' I'm nae a match for your bonnie Belle
And she's nae match for me.

But noo she's married wi' a tinker lad
He comes frae Huntly toon;
He sells pots and pans and paraffin lamps
And he scours the country roun'.

But maybe she's gotten a better match,
Auld Bogie canna tell,
'Twas Peter took the maidenheid
O' Bogie's bonnie Belle.

As sung by Jane Stewart on Topic LP 12T179, "The Travelling Stewarts". Learnt from her father, Davy Stewart, whose version appears on Topic LP 12T157, "Songs of Courtship".

A few variations there.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 06:20 AM

Thank you for this, Malcolm. I've no wish to be controversial :-) - just that Paul could be a crusty oul' bugger, at times !


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: Vic Smith
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 05:48 AM

Effsee says
None of which mentions what I regard as the definitive version, sung by Tom Spiers on the 1976(?) album "Beware of the Aberdonian" recorded by the Gaugers. Recently re-released by Sleepytown records.
Largely, I would go along with this. Tam's slightly different tune and commanding performance are magnificent. It may not be better than the wild raw excitement of the treatment of the song by the incomparable Davy Stewart, The Galoot, but Tam's approach puts him on a par with the master. (Just checked the vinyl sleeve and yes it was 1976)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: davyr
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 05:33 AM

I'm not surprised that nobody has mentioned the beautiful version of the song on this album, considering it's been "unavailable" for years:

LER 2094 Roger Nicholson, Jake Walton & Andrew Cronshaw Times & Traditions for Dulcimer

http://folkopedia.efdss.org/Leader_Records


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 10:51 PM

There are a number of early C20 versions in the Greig-Duncan Collection (vol VII, number 1396) which make it pretty clear that the word was Boghead; as pointed out earlier, it was common to refer to farmers by the name of the land they farmed; still is in some places.

You're unlikely to find the song in any old books. Most of the list above are commercial arrangements recorded by modern revival performers, so not likely to help. The notes to G-D VII include the following (page 518) from Gavin Greig's MS:

'Written originally by John Geddes, foreman at Boghead of Cairnie, fifty-four years ago. Believed to have been himself here. Copy from G. Stevenson, Mill of Towie, Auchindochy, Keith. Extracted from Farm Servant Magazine 1913.'

The editors also quote information supplied by Peter Hall, as follows:

'Isabel Morison, the heroine of this song, was born at Boghead, 20 September 1823, as the daughter of Alexander Morison (Old Parish Register, Cairnie). She again appears at Boghead in the census of 1841. Her illegitimate son, James, was born on 16 June 1843, the father being James Stephen from the parish of Glass(OPR, Cairnie). In the census of 1851, the son was living with his paternal uncle in the parish of Glass, lending credence to the versions of the song which have the father remove the child from the maternal home. Isabel Morrison [sic] is no longer at Boghead in 1851.'

A locally made song, though set to older tunes; in the early C20 it seems that some of the people involved were still remembered, though local tradition may have confused their identities a bit. The versions in G-D that mention lamps mostly have them as naptha lamps, incidentally; I don't know why Paul Graney insisted on 'ladles'. Perhaps he wasn't aware of those older examples.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: Effsee
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 10:22 PM

None of which mentions what I regard as the definitive version, sung by Tom Spiers on the 1976(?) album "Beware of the Aberdonian" recorded by the Gaugers. Recently re-released by Sleepytown records.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 06:34 PM

I was hoping to find the text of this song in an old book. But first there is the problem of spelling. It could be BOGEY, BOGIE, or BOGY. It could be BONNIE or BONNY. It could be BELL or BELLE. That makes 12 possible combinations. I found 8 of them—and that's just among the recordings found at Allmusic.com. (I never did find an old text.)

BOGEY'S BONNIE BELL
Dave Donohue, "The Musical Pub Crawl," ?.

BOGEY'S BONNIE BELLE
Christy Moore, "Christy Moore Folk Collection," 1978.
Paul 'Limey' Murray, "Traditional Scottish Ballads," 2005.
Paul Murray, "Ultimate Collection: The Sound of Scotland," 2007.
Steve Tilston, "Ship of Fools," 1988.
Tempest, "Turn of the Wheel," 1996.
Unknown, "Scottish Flavours," 2002.

BOGEY'S BONNY BELLE
Unknown, "Essential Irish Folk Collection," 2003.
Unknown, "Sound of Irish Folk [Dolphin]," 2002.

BOGIE'S BONNIE BELL
Andy M. Stewart, "Dublin Lady," 1987.
Carl Peterson, "Auld Scotch Sangs," 2000.
Gaberlunzie, "Wind and Water, Time and Tide," 2004.
John McDermott, "Celtic Tenor," 2004.

BOGIE'S BONNIE BELLE
Barry Dransfield, "Popular to Contrary Belief," 2008.
Bert Jansch, "Leather Launderette," 1988.
Cherish the Ladies, "Woman of the House," 2005.
Christy Moore, "Common Ground: Voices Of Modern Irish Music," 1996.
Debbie Brewin-Wilson, "Dream of Caledonia," 2002.
Isla St. Clair, "Tatties & Herrin': The Land," 1997.
Jock Tamson's Bairns, "May Ye Never Lack a Scone," 2001.
June Tabor, "Aqaba," 1988.
Lisa Moscatiello, "Innocent When You Dream," 1997.
Richard Thompson, "Watching the Dark," 1993.
Robin & Barry Dransfield, "Even More.Popular to Contrary Belief," 2008.
Robin Dransfield, "Lighter Touch," 2008.
Robin Dransfield, "Up to Now," 1997.
Rod Paterson, "Scottish Harps," 1998.
Saoirse, "Celtic Eclectic," 2007.
Sheila Stewart, "From the Heart of the Tradition," 2000.
The Corries, "Sound the Pibroch," 1972.
The Corries, "Strings and Things/A Little of What You Fancy," 2003.
Willson & McKee, "This Thin Place," 2006.

BOGIE'S BONNY BELLE
Archie Fisher, "Best of Scottish Folk [Essential]," 2002.
Archie Fisher, "Folk Roots: A Classic Anthology of Song," 2004.
Archie Fisher, "Transatlantic Box Set," 1998.
Finbar & Eddie Furey, "Best of Finbar & Eddie Furey," 1991.
Hamish Imlach, "Borderlands: The Best of Scottish Folk," 2006.
Jimmy MacBeath, "Tramps & Hawkers: The Alan Lomax Portait Series," 2002.
John Kirkpatrick, "One Man and His Box," 2000.
Old Blind Dogs, "Gab O Mey," 2003.
Owen Hand, "Something New/I Loved a Lass," ?.
Sula, "Over Seas," 2005.

BOGY'S BONNIE BELLE
The Fureys, "Drop of Irish," 1999.

BOGY'S BONNY BELLE
Finbar & Eddie Furey, "Collection," 1992.
Finbar & Eddie Furey, "Finbar and Eddie Furey/The Lonesome Boatman," 1997.
The Fureys, "Spanish Cloak," 1998.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 05:50 AM

Just to put the cat among the pigeons.

I used to sing this lovely song, but got a flea in my ear from Paul Graney (RIP), a noted folklorist. Denizens of the Manchester scene will remember him well.

I sang " . . . pots and pans and paraffin lamps . . .".

Paul told me it should be " . . . pots and pans and ladles . . . ", and who was I to argue ? Paul had more than likely forgotten more about "folk" than I might ever learn, and I was happy to accept his erudition.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 02:00 PM

guest eoin,Ilive in the munster area and sing it,and haverecorded it.http:www.dickmiles.com


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: GUEST,Robert Black of "Sticky Willie"
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 01:24 PM

AS I cam in by Huntly toon,
Yin mornin fur tae fie,
Refers to the old tradition of farm workers making their way to village livestock sales/fairs to bargain with local farmers to carry out alloted tasks for an agreed fee (fie)
Archie Fisher's rendition of this song cannot be bettered.... if you have not heard it & you like/love this song, then you have missed the best. I've been performing this for 40yrs & I can still choke up while singing it.... & I have not been nervous on stage since 1970 !!
stickywillie.co.uk


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: GUEST,Eoin
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 10:51 AM

Christy Moore has recorded two fine versions of the song. I come from Cork in the south of Ireland, where I regularily sing it with Bouzouki accompaniment by myself, I know of only one other person who sings it in the Munster area, that's Gerry Mc Namara from Limerick


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 02 - 05:21 PM

I actually live in Huntly! Ive never heard that other version of the song but I like it! I have a friend who sings this song alot ( i do know parts of it i should learn it!!) He has found out that the Bogie in the song isnt the river. The river bogie runs no where near Cairnie (which is a few miles out of Huntly) Instead, what used to happen on the farms was the farmer was called after his farm, so the farm could have had a reference to Bogie or Bogie side or even Strathbogie (which is the old name for Huntly before the Gordons changed it!). Hence Bogie o Cairnie. and just for the record, we hardly ever say Cairnie, we pronounce it Kyar-nee! I think there was something else to add to this but i seem to have forgotten! I'll post as soon as i remember!

Shona


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bogie's Bonny Belle
From: Big Tim
Date: 10 Nov 02 - 05:08 PM

I have just glanced at the thread but have seen no reference to the Bogie. This small river runs north through Huntly, Aberdeenshire. It joins the River Isla (not the much bigger River Isla in Co. Angus), then joins the River Spey, then the North Sea. Haven't noticed either any reference to Christy Moore's pretty straight recording of the song.

Incidentally, the song is all wrong: the most beautiful and by far the most sexy woman ever to come out of Huntly was Margaret C.


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Subject: Tune Add: BELLES'S BONNIE BOGIE
From: Snuffy
Date: 09 Nov 02 - 06:19 PM

The (defective) version of Belle's Bonnie Bogie that I posted 27 May 00 - 04:21 PM has made its way into the DT. Unfortunately that was done from memory, and I conflated verses 4 and 6, and totally omitted verse 11.

I later posted a corrected version 28 Sep 01 - 06:06 PM, but these corrections have not got into DT.

The song is on Mmario's Missing Tunes List. The tune is not the same as the one in DT for Bogie's Bonnie Belle, but is substantially the same as the one used by Finbar & Eddie Furey for that song. Here's an ABC (using the corrected version).

X: 240
T:BELLES'S BONNIE BOGIE
M:4/4
L:1/4
Q:90
S:Les Barker
K:BMIX
B|B>BcB|
w:As I gae'd in by
M:5/4
A<GF2B,|
w:Hunt-ly toon This
M:4/4
E<EFG|
w:mor-nin' for tae
M:5/4
B4B/B/|
w:fare I fell
M:4/4
AGF/F/E|
w:in wi' Bo-gie O'-
M:6/4
F<BA3G/F/|
w:Cair_-nie On his
M:4/4
E<CB,<A,|B,4||
w:rare and hair-y mare.

WassaiL! V


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