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Advice re. House Concerts

kendall 29 Dec 01 - 09:08 AM
Alice 18 Sep 00 - 11:50 PM
Les B 18 Sep 00 - 11:27 PM
campfire 18 Sep 00 - 10:47 PM
Alice 18 Sep 00 - 08:03 PM
bigchuck 18 Sep 00 - 07:45 PM
Alice 18 Sep 00 - 12:03 PM
Tony Burns 04 May 00 - 04:56 PM
T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird) 04 May 00 - 10:49 AM
Kim C 03 May 00 - 10:51 AM
Conrad Bladey (Peasant- Inactive) 03 May 00 - 09:29 AM
Petr 02 May 00 - 11:58 PM
mactheturk 02 May 00 - 09:26 PM
mactheturk 01 May 00 - 11:44 PM
rainbow 30 Apr 00 - 11:52 PM
Conrad Bladey (Peasant- Inactive) 30 Apr 00 - 10:19 PM
Frankham 30 Apr 00 - 08:15 PM
Conrad Bladey (Peasant- Inactive) 30 Apr 00 - 08:01 PM
mactheturk 30 Apr 00 - 06:15 PM
alison 29 Apr 00 - 10:29 PM
Abby Sale 29 Apr 00 - 09:27 PM
richardw 29 Apr 00 - 05:30 PM
Rick Fielding 29 Apr 00 - 04:24 PM
GUEST,Les B 29 Apr 00 - 02:49 PM
Frankham 29 Apr 00 - 01:32 PM
Frankham 29 Apr 00 - 01:11 PM
richardw 29 Apr 00 - 11:52 AM
Rick Fielding 29 Apr 00 - 01:24 AM
Rick Fielding 29 Apr 00 - 01:22 AM
richardw 28 Apr 00 - 07:29 PM
GUEST,Phil Cooper 28 Apr 00 - 01:21 PM
KathWestra 28 Apr 00 - 12:39 PM
Crowhugger 28 Apr 00 - 12:31 PM
Wesley S 28 Apr 00 - 11:55 AM
KathWestra 28 Apr 00 - 11:17 AM
Alice 28 Apr 00 - 10:14 AM
GUEST,Phil Cooper 27 Apr 00 - 08:03 PM
Mini Me 27 Apr 00 - 12:49 PM
GUEST,Fortunato 27 Apr 00 - 12:47 PM
GUEST,Okiemockbird 27 Apr 00 - 12:35 PM
GUEST,T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird) 27 Apr 00 - 12:33 PM
Rick Fielding 27 Apr 00 - 11:47 AM
mactheturk 27 Apr 00 - 08:54 AM
Mini Me 27 Apr 00 - 08:43 AM
Conrad Bladey (Peasant- Inactive) 27 Apr 00 - 08:00 AM
Judy Predmore 27 Apr 00 - 02:52 AM
mactheturk 26 Apr 00 - 11:58 PM
Rick Fielding 26 Apr 00 - 11:29 PM
GUEST,Guest, leeneia 26 Apr 00 - 10:55 PM
GUEST,Old Ned 26 Apr 00 - 09:47 PM
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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: kendall
Date: 29 Dec 01 - 09:08 AM

Just for the record Conrad, the bulk of my material is not for children. I dont do crude humor, what I do is quite dry and children just dont get it. Tell ya what, you give me a free guitar and I'll give you a free house concert. Smokers...anyone who cant go 45 minutes without a hit has a problem that I refuse to share, or sympathize with. The fact is, in this country, most people dont smoke, so, democracy is based on majority rules. If a smoker feels "barred" from a performance, it's his own fault.


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: Alice
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 11:50 PM

Well, Les, now that about four gallons of tar spread around on the roof has stopped the leak, now I need to figure out a cheap way of covering the two foot hole in the ceiling where it eroded and fell down. I'm thinking fabric at this point. I'll let you know when this circle gets started, and if you are in the area, come down and join in. I'm thinking of every second Saturday, starting at 2 in the afternoon. I'll see how that works for the others in town.


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: Les B
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 11:27 PM

Alice - it's funny you should bring this up. I was just fondly thinking of your very warm and inviting living room space today. As I mentioned before, I think it would be great for a house concert. I'm glad you're at least going to do song circles there !


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: campfire
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 10:47 PM

God Bless House Concerts!

We have two house concert series here, and they are my favorite place(s) to see music.

One series leans a little more toward trad, but I've seen Bill Staines and Lou and Peter Berryman there, too. This series is non-smoking (people who need can go outside during the break) but they do serve beer and wine, if I recall correctly. They have two "hats" - one for the performer (with a suggested donation) and another for the goodies, kind of on the honor system (the person who has a "dinner" of the snacks generally really does pay more than the person who sips a coke). By the time I "met" this series, it had been going on for several years, and was well established with an average attendance of 30-40 per show, about 5 times a year (SRO for Bill Staines, but what did you expect?)

The other series is mostly singer/songwriter. They have a set door charge, generally $10 with reservations, $12 without and that includes "goodies" (but all the money goes to the performer). No alcohol served and no smoking (I've never seen anyone here go outside between sets). I was in pretty much from the start, here, and yes, the first show had, I think, 7 people. Now, after three years, the everage attendance is probably 25. More for Michael Smith, and the Johnsmith concert I didn't make it to was also SRO, packed to the gills! Shows are about once a month except in the summer - too much else to do!

I like these venues especially because of the intimacy. With only 25 or so members of the audience, you can actually have a conversation with the performer, not to mention the other wonderful folk attending.

Someone above asked about security issues. Both these houses are set up so that the "public" can stay on the main floor, and the bedrooms are upstairs - nobody goes there. Fortunately, both houses have bathrooms on the main level. The second series for certain, and probably the first, started out with friends and neighbors, and grew with friends of friends. There may be someone in attendance that nobody knows, but with 25 friends there, nobody can get into the hosts' personal stuff. Didn't hurt that the one house also has a very large dog ;)

Two similar series have started up in church basements/fellowship halls. They seat more people, and thus have a slightly lower "cover". They're nice, too, but I still prefer the house concerts.

campfire

campfire


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: Alice
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 08:03 PM

Hi, bigchuck. We have two instrumental sessions here. One is in the lobby of an historic hotel, started in 1994, and is mostly Irish, Scottish, and Canadian tunes, some songs once in awhile in breaks between tunes, or if there are mostly singers that show up. There is a core group of about 20 people. The other session is in a coffee shop and has been going on for a couple of years, bluegrass and old-time music. There are more instrumentalists than singers here, and I am mainly a singer. I've wanted to start a song circle for a couple of years, and we tried a couple gatherings in two coffee shops, but it didn't keep going. I decided when this fellow asked me if there would be enough interest, that it was just time for me to make the commitment (The Commitments ;-) to have the gathering at my house. We had a hard time finding another place to hold the bluegrass session when the hotel owner decided he didn't like that kind of music and kicked the session out. I've liked the format of the Nenagh Singers Cirlce, and hope to do that here. I guess this will be an incentive to really clean up the clutter in my computer area at least once a month...


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: bigchuck
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 07:45 PM

Alice, I had song gatherings in my house for a number of years, although never had any concerts. They provided a place for myself and a few others (never more than 7 or 8) to share some music and friendship. Out of that developed some lasting friendships and at least 4 bands. At the beginning, I advertised and put up posters. This basic idea continued for years, with the location changing a couple of times, and seemed to work quite well, although we were an anarchistic enough group to intimidate some people. I still go to local gatherings when I can, because I believe strongly that the survival of the music that I love, call it folk or whatever you will, is absolutely dependent on participation by as many people as possible. If it becomes restricted to "venues" and "professional" performers then it becomes no different than a string quartet or a symphony orchestra playing the works of the masters. I like a lot of that music, yes, and I respect the skills of the performers, BUT I don't feel that as a living tradition in the way that I feel "folk" music.
Sandy, Blathering in Vermont


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: Alice
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 12:03 PM

I like this line from the first message, " a hundred years ago a fiddler in the kitchen just meant it was Saturday night! "

I'm revisiting this thread because last night at our session a fiddler/singer asked if I would like to start a song circle. I've had it in mind for a couple of years, but just didn't have the venue or enough interested people. So, last night I volunteered my house for a once a month song circle location. After Bill and Allan's visit here, Les B had suggested that I think about the idea of a house concert. I'm wondering how many of you have song gatherings in private homes that occasionally become house concerts.

Alice


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: Tony Burns
Date: 04 May 00 - 04:56 PM

I will admit up front that I have not read all the posts in this thread. It got off track so fast I lost interest. However, in answer to the original post you will find an interesting article on Bob Bossin's site tiltled "How to put on the perfect house concert".


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird)
Date: 04 May 00 - 10:49 AM

KimC, I think your intuition is right. My understanding (not legal advice, just private opinion) is that if the artist sings all truly PD then neither the syndicates nor anyone else has a claim. That doesn't mean no one will try to make a claim that the performer performed a copyrighted "adaptation" or "arrangement". And it's possible for copyrighted lyrics or melodies to be mistaken for public domain.

If the performer does his own music then there might, in theory, still be trouble from copyright cops. The author of the work doesn't always control the copyright. The following is a publication example, not a performance example, but for what its worth: John Fogerty was sued for infringing the copyright in a song he himself wrote. He successfully defended himself, however.

T.


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: Kim C
Date: 03 May 00 - 10:51 AM

Hmm. This is all very interesting. Never been to a house concert, don't even know if there are any here in Music City USA. (If anyone knows of any folk societies in Nashville, please do tell. And Conrad, if you're concerned about music being too commercial, then don't ever plan a trip to Nashville because you'll probably get a heart attack. I can say that because I've lived here since I was but a wee lassie. Music City, my arse.)

Anyway --- personally I can't sing if people are smoking. If I take a lungfull of secondary smoke while I'm trying to get a good breath for the next phrase, it just about chokes me. I've done it, yes, but I'd rather not. As for drink, well, pass the Bushmills.

That's interesting what the gentleman said about SOCAN. There was a little flap here a few years ago about how Girl Scout troops might have to pay licensing fees for their singalongs. It went away pretty quickly. But if an artist is performing their own material at a house concert, or all public domain stuff, how can a performing rights organization demand money for that? I don't get it. And are there not some artists who aren't affiliated with anyone?

Performers need to get some compensation for their trouble, even if it's just meals and gas money. I do have a gripe with ASCAP/BMI/SOCAN trying to get all their fingers in everyone's pies. I'm not convinced the artists benefit from all the money they take in. But that's another story for another day.

House concerts sound like a great idea to me. Anyone in the Southeast need some pre-1865 music? :)


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: Conrad Bladey (Peasant- Inactive)
Date: 03 May 00 - 09:29 AM

IMHO excelence in performance is not necessary. Performance is necessary. Currently the problem is not enough performance and not enough playing by people overall. Over professionalization has played a role in bringing this about. Yes - you do have to spend time to get really good. but do you have to be really good? I dont think so. Nice but not essential.

If you are a good listener and knoweledgable in the genre you will be able to benefit from any rendition of a tune. Take a look at my pages and some very good quotes on the topic.

It is better to have a tune played poorly than none at all.

Free Folk Music Click here!

Conrad


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: Petr
Date: 02 May 00 - 11:58 PM

There is some great info here on house concerts. Ive been to a few here in Vancouver and am in the process of organizing one for a visiting singer from Ireland. I think its a great idea where you can hear a performer in in an intimate setting and give them a chance to make some extra money.

Oh the money thing, I do a fair number of paying gigs and have noticed that the more serious the musician the more likely they will want some compensation and rightly so. It takes a great deal of time and commitment to maintain a level of skill that people will enjoy listening to. Its also hard work, Ive played for 4 hrs in a bar with people and drunks yelling and most of the time youre just background music. Im sick of the assumption that artists and musicians (who usually make little money) are asked to donated to charity (because they love what theyre doing). You wouldnt expect an accountant to do your accounting for free because he loves his work. (Although I object to pushy buskers in a public space who demand that people who are not going to pay to leave, because this is their choice of lifestyle and form of income).

At the same time I think there is plenty of opportunity to hear music for free. Most of the musicians I know play in regular sessions in bars (for nothing except maybe a discount on the beer) and half the time they do it over other peoples talking.

As far as Im concerned house concerts are my favorite type of performance.


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: mactheturk
Date: 02 May 00 - 09:26 PM

Heard this song today as I was driving and I thought of this thread. The song title is "Step Inside This House", written by Guy Clark as sung by Lyle Lovett on his album, "Step Inside This House".

Chorus:

Step inside this house I'll sing for you a song I'll tell you 'bout where I've been It shouldn't take too long I'll show you all the things I own my treasures you might say Could be more than ten dollars worth But they brighten up my day.


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: mactheturk
Date: 01 May 00 - 11:44 PM

"Music is the fourth great material want of our nature, first food, then raiment, then shelter, then music" Christian Nestell Bovee


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: rainbow
Date: 30 Apr 00 - 11:52 PM

gee that was interesting about socan... i have never heard of bmi or ascap hitting up a house concert in the u.s.... though i may just be uninformed. hadn't really even considered the possibility to tell you the truth.

as a d.j. for almost 20 years here, i suggest you make sure your local radio venue that would play the music of your guest be contacted even if the idea is just that... still an idea. i am happy to play the music months and months ahead and help build the folks an audience, especially if they are unknown in the area. i don't really care if they have been booked or not... i just play it, and if the booking goes through i can add some more promotion.

i have put on many house concerts, and performed at several as well. they have always been wonderful experiences. the funniest i guess was when i forgot to unplug the fridge. (i try to be very aware of house noises, phones ringing etc.)... but in this case forgot. the performers were playing guitar and uillean pipes. after the first set the performer asked politely if i would unplug it so he could play tunes that weren't just in one key. he very creatively found a key to match the hum.... :-)

i always would notify the neighbors and invite them to come for free. they were not required to pay. they were pretty much the only comps, unless someone was broke and really wanted to come and offered to help with posters, cooking etc.... i used to let kids sell refreshments and keep the proceeds... kept them busy and involved.

my favourite concerts were outside. the front porch became the stage, and i could hang a light from the bottlebrush and make a nicely lit stage. full moon concerts were awesome!

other advice... well most folks don't give out their address on air... they will give a phone number for information and they will give directions/etc. via phone contact.

... lorraine

p.s. hi deb!


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: Conrad Bladey (Peasant- Inactive)
Date: 30 Apr 00 - 10:19 PM

Thank you! If we let the professional patronized performers continue their work into our homes where then can we go to where music remains a part of life and of the folk process? I do not want to deny the professional musician anything. I do want to make sure that the folk process can be free to work in places other than in the pay per view setting. I always will remember being taken into homes after concerts as a college student. There was food, maybe I would bring what I could- always smoke, wine beer and music.There was no discrimination against preference or habit. Sometimes the hat was passed and I emptied my pocket but never was money demanded or required at the entrance. So many of us who could not afford to both eat and pay $15 to get in became one with the music in this way. Although one might play professionally here and there -for money- there is always that other realm away from the stage and in the houses and small corners where the folk process calls out to even the professional saying - let me play let me sing let me learn.

Is the folk process adequately served by those pros who insist on turning their backs on this other world?

Conrad


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: Frankham
Date: 30 Apr 00 - 08:15 PM

Asking people to pay for a concert of folk music in a home is one way to ensure that the artist will be treated with respect. But.....there is also an important aspect of the music that Conrad brings up, that of the social nature of sharing this music outside of a professional milieu. This is equally important in my opinion. One aspect of house concerts might be for an artist to have a chance to jam with the local talent that might be in his/her audience. Maybe a party can be organized on another night that would be just for fun and not a paid performance.

The interaction of sharing music in an integral part of the folk process. Without it, I don't think there can be folk music. This is probably the subject for a different thread.

Frank


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: Conrad Bladey (Peasant- Inactive)
Date: 30 Apr 00 - 08:01 PM

Perhaps the problem is in the word concert! Why does playing music with folks have to be a "concert" I can just see the guys at the pits, or in the fields after work or at their lunch breaks in olden times saying step right up we are musicians we need money or you wont hear a note. Sure!

I have nothing against professional musicians. But there are other ways to look at the art and many ways to structure performance.

My problem is constantly finding money between the public and the music.

We all do things to make money. I teach and tell stories. I also tell stories and play music without any thought of money at all. No stage, no amplification, no idiot rules which seem to indicate that music in the absence of purity is not music.

You can have the good clean living folks, alcohol and smoke free and you can take the money and keep that between musicians and the public. You can have concerts. And sure professional musicians being professional before the word musician you note, can take with one hand at a concert and then take and take again and again. That is ok if....music for people must always be a profession. Music can also be a way of life.

I will just continue to open my doors to those who simply play music and listen to it and maybe dance and maybe drink and smoke and do other things that people once did when all were entitled to recreation.

I am more concerned with the spread of music and song and not as concerned with the support of a patronized class of musicians who will only play when paid.

All a matter of priorities. Do as you wish. I would much rather sit down with anyone who provides his or her music freely than a better performer who always demands payment.

music is for the air and for all.....

Conrad


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: mactheturk
Date: 30 Apr 00 - 06:15 PM

Someone's in the kitchen with mactheturk someone's in the kitchen I know

Someone's in the kitchen with mactheturk strummin' on the ol' banjo......

they're singin'..........


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: alison
Date: 29 Apr 00 - 10:29 PM

A friend of mine has been organising house concerts, (only a few a year) for just over a year... they are wonderful..... where else can you get to watch the likes of Andy Irvine at close quarters, and wonder "how the hell does he get his fingers to move so fast?")... Unfortunatley they lost out on James Keelahan due to him having another commitment.. but later this year they'll have Jez Lowe...... for details of how they run their one look here..... it tells you what to expect and how much they charge etc.....

The first concert was by invitation, at each one they get you to fill in a visitors book... so now they have a growing list of people who ahve attended in the past.. so they can aim their advertising at people who are likely to be interested.....

slainte

alison


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: Abby Sale
Date: 29 Apr 00 - 09:27 PM

Kath: I feel slightly better seeing your 2nd post on attendence. I must say I was shocked & disillusioned by your 1st. That is, only attracting 20-30 bi-monthly people from a mailing of 3000. I've come to think of D.C. as the absolute Mecca of US folk music, others insist this is true. I've been looking forward to that Better Day A-comming when I could hang there a bit. The L of C & more trad folkies per capita than even Edinburgh. I don't doubbt the quality of the meetings but I am surprised at the size

My two cents as to a way to do house concerts. In Orlando we have House Parties. I send the e-mailing to some 350 people with varying interest in music. Word & fliers also go around the various venues & the State folk Soc. book. Attendence averages about 20. 15 to a high if 35. Say 7 times yearly at this point. Club-sponsored format is pot-luck, byo dinner, (soft) drinks, etc supplied but reimbursed by the Club. Fees range from $3 for local featured singers to $8. The featured act works about an hour & sells anything it can. Then chairs are circled for a round-robin sing/jam. (The featured act usually hangs in the outer circle, contributing but not leading a song.) It's my favorite format altogether, provides informal star-in-the-round plus sharing of songs. Trouble is, everyone there but me considers a song to be "old" at 25 years and "very old" at 50 years old. I'm the only one there that has a notion of traditional. All else is acoustic "folk." Well, there's a fair mix of songs-we-learned-in-the-60's, blues & old-timey tunes & the level of artistry is high.

I believe both that 1) the best use of songs is a sharing & swapping in an egalitarian setting (an interactive circle, not a stage with a passive or directed audience) and 2) that professional singers should be properly paid and encouraged. A folk club seems required, to me, to encourage & spread folksinging (whatever that means.)

Well, maybe I'll still pilgrimage to D.C. one day. I know, at least, that there's a lot of good tapes I can listen to in that big library in the sky.


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: richardw
Date: 29 Apr 00 - 05:30 PM

Rick;

Agreed. We just had the fortune to hear Willie P. Bennett in a Nanaimo venue, a bar. They showed NO respect for a man that is an icon of Canadian music. Willie had to do his sound check will the bar music was playing. And then through his whole set there was a hum loud enough we could not concentrate on his music. Then of course there were those who had to shout Right On, and so on. The sound guys never did fix the hum.

It was an insult but Willie just trooped on as the gentleman he is. (Next day he laid down some harmonica tracks for us--a real pro and again, a gentleman).

I think the reason we had the "ON THE SKIDS" thoughts from some people is because we are 7 hours north of Vancouver and in a rural area, 30 minutes from town.

Then there is the issue of expectations. When we were producing on Vancouver Island we had trouble getting $12-15 for concerts at a theatre because th folk club only charged $3 for admission. Therefore, the value of folk musics had been set in some people's mind as $3.

I thi8nk house concerts have to figure out a good price, one that seems reasonable and then go with it.

One point I did not make was that we always charged the same, whether for Don Ross, or Ken Hamm or a mor elocal act. Seemed to work. Folks had there money and change in hand at the door.

Also, BTW, in performing we have found that donations at the door don't work. Set a ticket price and collect it, at the door.

We also print tickets that are sold at a music store and a copy shop in town. If we know the folks they can reserve from us. This helps us to judge how tickets are selling and make an extra push if need be with phone calls.

Lights. Outside. Make it look warm and inviting and safe. Folks are coming to a strange place the first few times and like to see what's at the end of the driveway. We have been to some where even the porch light was not on. Folks are generally reluctant to venture out much so make it easy. We light the side of the house and have an extra couple of halogen lights that light the yard and trees. Also some accent lights on the building we use.

House concerts are a good all round solution.

Richard


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 29 Apr 00 - 04:24 PM

Sometimes the parking can be a bit of a hassle, but thirty or so cars parked up to a block away is manageable.

Some good points Richard but I've never seen a situation where playing a house concert would indicate someone was "on the skids". Just the EXACT opposite. To me it's extremely sad to see someone I admire playing in a bar when ANYONE is chatting through the music. If an artist has been used to playing 1000 seat auditoriums and can't fill 'em anymore, that usually has everything to do with his/hers "major label" affiliation. Why a REAL fan of an artist would object to spending 20 bucks to spend an evening in a perfect concert situation is beyond me.

Rick


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: GUEST,Les B
Date: 29 Apr 00 - 02:49 PM

This is an extremely informative thread. Richardw's info especially covered a lot of ground, and I hope he can continue the work he's started. Bravo for those who take presenting music to heart ! The one area I haven't seen addressed, for those who are in town, is how do you handle parking ? Warn the neighbors ? Require people to car pool, or what ? 30 autos showing up on a residential street might be a bit of a strain.


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: Frankham
Date: 29 Apr 00 - 01:32 PM

I need to amend my first statement by saying that I don't know of any folkie who ever went into performing just to make money. It doesn't make sense. The only reason to put up with all the crap that attends the music business is because you love the music.

I think that house concerts are a wonderful way to really meet the audience in an intimate and meangingful way and to be able to express those important reasons as to why one would bother being a folkie.

In an ideal socialist society, the artist would be subsidized to make this experience happen. Under a capitalistic society, the artist is the first to take the lumps. It's a choice that's made because the artist in my opinion is not owed anything. The folk artist is damned lucky to be able to be doing it at all for an audience that pays for it and I'm eternally grateful that this is the case.

House concerts serve a very important role for one reason. It's a place where artists can go and be treated with respect. This doesn't happen often at a bar and often not at private parties or jams.

Every time that someone lights up a cig or consumes liquor, they are making some run-away capitalist wealthy. Hence the addicted drinker and smoker are the mainstay of a run-away capitalist system.

I meant to keep this short but I got carried away. Sorry.

Frank


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: Frankham
Date: 29 Apr 00 - 01:11 PM

I've learned one thing about musicians. You want them to play well? Hire them. You want them to play even better? Pay them really well.

Exposing children to tobacco smoke and those who hate it is criminal in my opinion. This is not socialism. This is facism.

Runaway capitalism is when the agent gets more than the artist. It happens!

Sensitivity to an audience and their needs are the most important aspect of folk music. Without cigarette smoke and alcohol, it would probably be more of a popular form of expression and a better environment for children who will carry on this tradition.

If there are house concerts for smokers and drinkers, please let everyone know so I won't go to them.

Frank


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: richardw
Date: 29 Apr 00 - 11:52 AM

Rick;

I'd pay $20 to see most folks too, however, there seems to be a price point break in what people can, or will pay. We had a Juno award winner here (whose name I won't mention in this public forum as I do not have permission), who rarely performs solo, is well known to everyone in music in BC. So we thought let's get him top dollar. We sold tickets at $20. The first dozen or so were gone in hours, but we only had half a house.

Next time he came we charged our usual $12, and packed the place to the rafters.

One problem we have found with house concerts is that just because a performer plays house concerts does not mean they are on the skids. So when David Essig wanted to come and visit for the weekend and we put on a concert the reaciton was, "David Essig"? at Pioneer Ranch? no way." Couldn't believe it. We even pulled in one travelling salesman who heard about it and couldn't believe his good luck.

This is not so much a problem now but was at the beginning, so needs to be addressed in the promo material. We used the idea, passed on by a performer, that they were tired of playing "insdustrial strength" festivals. Wanted a intimate listening audience.

In reality of course, the other reason is that often the expenses are so low, (no sound system usualyy, no hall rental, no band,etc.) that they make as much as at some top gigs.

By the way, we have always been acoustic. On two or three ocassions we have added a simple mic just to balance voices or insturments.

Oh, and we take the approach that "a bum is a bum" --which means kids pay unless they sit on knees or are regulars.

Richard


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 29 Apr 00 - 01:24 AM

Might even be able to get Mudcat's own Kendall here.

Rick


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 29 Apr 00 - 01:22 AM

Great post Richard.

Duckboots and I have thought of starting a series of house concerts Chez nous. There's not a lot of room.(we could fit 20+ in the music room) My friend Alan Rhody in Nashville gave me a good idea however. House Workshops. Now first of all, if I'm ever going to see folks like John Herald, Erik Darling, Artie Traum Frank Hamilton, or John Prince again, I'm gonna have to put in some effort. So the plan is to get a couple of other friends near Toronto..maybe Hamilton or Oshawa, in cahoots with me. If we can offer a wonderful (but not neccessarily commercial) performer, 3 gigs in a row, plus a nice vacation, we might be able to get them to come to Toronto. I'd pay 20 bucks in a heartbeat to see any of them.

Rick


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: richardw
Date: 28 Apr 00 - 07:29 PM

Okay, Conrad the peasant aside, it's time to jump in here. We have put on, hosted, produced, whatever, 50-some house concerts, 2 mini-festivals, four workshops. We have performed at dozens. We have hosted performers such as Rosalie Sorrels, David Essig, Tanglefoot, Bryan Bowers, Don Ross, Ken Hamm, Doug Cox, Gary Fjellgaard, Laurie Thain, 3 Sheets to the Wind, Flatland 6, Fred Eaglesmith and so on. The only one we went looking for was Bryan Bowers (I play autoharp)--the rest heard about us and called. We began with folks we knew or were friends and word got out. Some became friends. Ken Hamm, for instance, is producing our new CD (June release) of old-time goldrush music.

They were all given the same deal--dinner, a room, breakfast, 2/3 of the door and good treatment. We encouraged people to buy product, and often this doubled the door. We charged $12 including refreshments at the break (donations did not work). We consistently filled our "hall" with 40-50 people. If it was a poor door we gave it all to the performer. We always took whatever nights were open and left the weekend nights for the larger towns several hours away. We filled in those dead nights that would have been spent in a motel or on the road.

Over the years we have done this (about 6), we have managed to break even (except for the festivals). Originally we used our dining room but I spent a couple of grand and fixed up an out building (we are on a ranch) with heat, carpets, some stage lights, interesting decor, etc. We bought some old "director" type chairs that were comfortable and foldable. We expanded our venue and encouraged two other folks in nearby towns to join us, so we had a small circuit of 3 gigs. We all agreed to book whoever the others wanted, though usually we were the originator. We all offered the same, except Bill.We encouraged Bill to try and show a small profit if he was going to be able to keep giving concerts.

Bill printed tickets, Bill advertised (paid), Bill gave 10% to the owner of the hall, Bill bought dinner. Bill printed posters. Bill lost money and had to quit giving house concerts.

All performers accepted this deal and all went away happy. We only had one or two bombs--and still don't know why. We get good support from the local papers. We send a press release and a photo and two comps. We poster, we phone, we e-mail.

We have built an audience that trusts us--so even new performers draw a crowd. We built an audience and a community--and it was open to anyone.

Rules Conrad? Damn right. No smoking, no booze, no boo-boo-talk-alots. This was a listening audience that wanted to hear the performers, up close and intimate.

Free music? Free to whom? Performers had to pay to get here and live and we had minor expenses. You want free? Offer to work the door, do the cleaning, buy toilet paper, fill up the gas tank, bring the refreshments, cook dinner and breakfast for the performers, wash the bedding. Come and spend 4 hours on my tractor ploughing snow for parking in mid-winter. A few of our regular audience did help and still wanted to pay. They believed in supporting Canadian music.(read musicians who eat.)

Downsides? We have never had anything stolen, but we have someone in the house during the breaks and if someone leaves during the concert they are followed quietly.(We are in a rural area os we know most of the audience.) Usually it's a guy going to pee behind a tree. Guests bring in mud and dirt, so we have to clean the floors of the house and the "hall" each time. We heat the hall with wood, so there is little cost but some work.

Downsides? Who did not support the series? For the most part, (always exceptions) local performers did not support. Some called for bookings and we always said the same thing. Come and see what we are doing first.

Downsides? Paper work. SOCAN busted us. Wanted $$ per show. We don't need more paper work and we don't need a paper trail for Revenue Canada who in some cases have demanded bookkeeping on all house concerts. (There is no profit to tax but again, who wants the paerp work--that is our regular life.) We tried to keep it low key so as not to attract fire marshals, buiness license inspectors etc. Have you ever had a phone call or letter from SOCAN? Ours were always threatening, rude ---who needs it? They always left a sour taste. So we worked out a deal with SOCAN--we stopped giving concerts. The 3 venue circuit is now dead, after approximately 100+ shows that conservativily brought in $40,000 in cash to performers.

There is a difference in doing 1 or 2 concerts a year and one a month. You can afford to lose a few bucks on one or two--not on 40.

Profit? As Robert Theobold said: "Bad people get paid for doing bad things. Why should not good people get paid for doing good things."

We wrote a piece on house concerts for a music cataloque and it was on our website until the SOCAN fiasco. If you would like a copy leave a message and I can fax or e-mail it.

Oh, Conrad--how many house concerts have you hosted?

We believe in house concerts and so do many performers. Costs are low and audience enjoyment is high. We are trying to figure out how to start up again.

Richard Wright in the grasslands of BC


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: GUEST,Phil Cooper
Date: 28 Apr 00 - 01:21 PM

As far as advice on setting up house concerts goes. I find if the host is enthusiastic about who they're bringing in, it helps attendance. If you are hosting, you have to twist arms,let people know they are in for a good time. Fox Valley Folklore Society presented Judy Cook a couple years ago. I handed out flyers at the song circle on a capella night and said if they liked the singing there, they would love to come and hear Judy. It worked out very well. Invite about 1/3 more people than you really want to come (some folks, say they'll come and don't show up, others that you've never met, will come) and you should have a good turnout.


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: KathWestra
Date: 28 Apr 00 - 12:39 PM

We have many dozens of venues in the Washington, DC, area, of which house concerts are just one part. Amazingly, this community seems to be able to support them all.

In addition to the house concerts I mentioned earlier, which are sponsored by the Folklore Society of Greater Washington (FSGW), there are at least three other regular house concert series (two of them sponsored by individuals). The FSGW concerts are a bit more traditional-music focused, while the others tend to book more singer-songwriters.

We are very lucky here to have the FSGW newsletter, which goes every month to a folk-music-appreciating audience of 3000+ people who are members of he Folklore Society. The newsletter lists any folk event (not just FSGW-sponsored) whose promoters get the info. in by the copy deadline. This helps build audiences for everyone.
Kathy


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: Crowhugger
Date: 28 Apr 00 - 12:31 PM

Thank you KathWestra and Fortunato. And Rick.

This thread is making me wish my living room were larger with less stuff.

thread drift alert thread drift alert thread drif
Wesley S., I can't speak for the sudden outbreak of acoustic venues in your area. I do know from experience that restauranteurs get to reinvest some profit, not just eat the inventory, when they're near other restaurants. Have you noticed how fast-food chains cluster, ditto for fine dining? The area becomes known for choices in that 'genre' of food.

I dearly hope that the same phenomenon works in Perth where a few people are feeling snotty because there are now two open stages on Thursday night in a town of 6,000. The choice of night makes sense to me because a lot of the hosts and participants are young or have to get sitters etc. and not everyone lives the night life. Especially where people still farm, cut wood, tap maples etc. to live. It makes for a late night when you have to drive the sitter home at 2:30 a.m.

Gosh I'm feeling chatty again...

CH.


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: Wesley S
Date: 28 Apr 00 - 11:55 AM

I wonder if house concerts are able to exist or thrive in an area where there are a lot of venues for acoustic music already. Lately we've had 3 new venues get started for acoustic music in our area and I wonder if someone would start a house series in an enviroment like that. Do house concerts get started so that there will be a smoke and alcohol free alternative? Why start a house series if there are already places to hear these types of performers? I haven't been to a house concert so I'm curious.


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: KathWestra
Date: 28 Apr 00 - 11:17 AM

I think it's too bad that one person has turned this thread into a debate on whether performers should get paid for doing the work at which they make their living. (Yeah, Fortunato!)

House concerts CAN be good for both performers and audiences. I think this thread was started with a serious request for advice on HOW to do house concerts, not for diatribes on WHETHER they're legitimate. Perhaps Conrad should start a new thread on "Should Folksingers Be Paid?" Rick, rev up that Rolls!

As for me, I'd like to hear from more folks who have good ideas on the original request! -- Kathy (who's always interested in learning new stuff and hearing other people's ideas, even about things she knows how to do)


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: Alice
Date: 28 Apr 00 - 10:14 AM

Mac, thanks for starting this thread. I think the House Concert concept for performing folk music is an excellent one. To be able to play in a home where there can be children listening without the smoky bar or concert seat scene is a wonderful opportunity. There are many positive ideas I have gleaned from this discussion of the house concert experience, and I hope more people take up the idea.

Alice


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: GUEST,Phil Cooper
Date: 27 Apr 00 - 08:03 PM

My singing partner, Margaret Nelson, and I have played many house concerts in the 18 odd years we've been performing together. Many of the people who hosted us have turned into good friends. We've done better playing at house concerts financially than we have playing for some "name" clubs that have booked us midweek and then neglected to promote the show. We have sometimes encountered hosts who did not want to charge money to guests in their home. In those cases they have paid us out of their own pockets (above and beyond the call of duty). We've learned some good songs from guests who've stuck around and sung for us after the show. I can count on one hand, and still have fingers left over the number of bad housing experiences we've had in all this time. Thanks. Phil


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: Mini Me
Date: 27 Apr 00 - 12:49 PM

Dear Conrad, I have booked and worked with many professional folk singers over the years in a variety of settings : festivals,picnics,concerts and house concerts. It's my opinion that the majority of these individuals are very helpful , outgoing and down to earth. ( I have seen a small handful of the folk stars who act aloof or the festival security which prevent the audience from seeing or communicating with the artists at the larger festivals ). If you ever want to see the consumate performer/songwriter/teacher and folk musician , then , go see Rick Fielding , the person you have been communicating with in this thread. He is by far, one of the absolute greatest ambassadors of folk music today !!

Mike Strobel


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: GUEST,Fortunato
Date: 27 Apr 00 - 12:47 PM

Music should be free. Children at your feet. Oh, yes. And plumbing, and electricity and groceries and cars and roads and clothing should be free as well, no? All of you anti-capitalists take your music down to the Safeway (grocery store) and trade them for your bread and milk.

I am bored with these adolescent 'anarchist' arguments. How are you non-capitalists paying for your computers and internet time?

How dare you argue with Fieldings or any professional musician's earning of his bread and milk? Without professional musicians and the industry that supports them, you wouldn't have anything to sing at your 'free music parties'. What songs would these children know who sit at your feet, without professional musicians and the industry?

You sit in the soft lap of capitalism, sucking at it's tit, and decry the milk. Juvenile.


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: GUEST,Okiemockbird
Date: 27 Apr 00 - 12:35 PM

"A strictly private, by-invitation-only party where no money is exchanged is a private performance, not subject to copyright laws." -- me.

FYI that was private opinion, not legal advice. T.


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: GUEST,T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird)
Date: 27 Apr 00 - 12:33 PM

A strictly private, by-invitation-only party where no money is exchanged is a private performance, not subject to copyright laws.

Outside of that, it starts to get murky. Has anyone had the experience of planning a house concert and getting a visit, before or after, from an ASCAP or BMI enforcer ?

T.


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 27 Apr 00 - 11:47 AM

Aye Chiuhuahua!

Conrad, it would appear that you've managed to interact on a regular basis with that tiny minority of greedy, selfish, money grubbin' folksingers, who give the rest of us a bad name. I guess in my 32 years of playing music for a living, I've just had blinkers on...'cause I rarely encounter them.

You said: "I also note that in many of the festivals free and otherwise it is common practice for musicians to hide with each other behind fences and far away from the public. Perhaps so they will not play more than arranged but surely not so that they can communicate with the people."

My experience has been that folk musicians interact with the audience members almost constantly! On rare occasions they may hide behind barriers to get away from the odd "fan!?" who is obsessive, and unpleasant.

Rick

Mactheturk! Congratulations. Enjoy.


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: mactheturk
Date: 27 Apr 00 - 08:54 AM

Hello Mike,

Got your message. Will call you later today.

Thanks,

Mac


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: Mini Me
Date: 27 Apr 00 - 08:43 AM

Dear Mac, I've put on a number of house concerts ,here in Rochester , New York and would be happy to share a number of ideas and experiences. Too much to list. Call me at work if you like : 1-800-934-6267 ext. 3671

Mike Strobel

I'd also be interested in performing.


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: Conrad Bladey (Peasant- Inactive)
Date: 27 Apr 00 - 08:00 AM

good to hear musicians dont have to travel anywhere really but sitting where they are already brought in by a venue played earlier why not spread the goodness.

yes there are artists who do lots of stuff for free one of our local festivals is entirely free..

but that is one exception in the larger landscape

I also note that in many of the festivals free and otherwise it is common practice for musicians to hide with each other behind fences and far away from the public. Perhaps so they will not play more than arranged but surely not so that they can communicate with the people. Many musicians play and then leave immediately.

For me the concept of the festival is to be centered on spreading the tradition one on one and networking and leveling experience.

I am of course glad for every moment a musician shares with the public. But this is not the attitude conveyed by the nature of the house concerts described here.

Conrad


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: Judy Predmore
Date: 27 Apr 00 - 02:52 AM

Conrad, you are quite the gadfly. It's hard to resist countering you..

I know of quite a few professional folk musicians who volunteer their time keeping their local folk organizations alive, and / or attend participatory musical events in their local area, sharing their music for free. I go to 2 festivals every year, entirely staffed by volunteers. Many of these "volunteers" are part time & some full time professional musicians. I have learned from many masters in these local, informal, free or low cost settings, & I am deeply appreciative, & I pass on what I've learned to even less experienced musicians. I am also fortunate enough to have the money to pay for concerts & lessons. I have no fear that traditional folk music will die out, because it got "too capitalistic".

Professional folk musicians often spend alot of time passing on their traditions & expertise for free, to their local communities, in informal settings. They don't need to travel accross country to perform for free, or give formal lessons or formal concerts in their local community for free, unless it's for a specific good cause, (far too many of which musicians are asked to support for free).

If a performer spends alot of time preparing for & / or traveling to perform or teach, they should be paid for that time.


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: mactheturk
Date: 26 Apr 00 - 11:58 PM

Good News !

Since originating this thread a few days ago we've made contact with Robin Williamson, guitarist,harper, singer, and master storyteller.

A tentative date of Monday June 12 has been discussed and we are awaiting his conformation.

With any luck, we'll turn them lights down low and listen to the music in the air.

Keep ya posted...


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 26 Apr 00 - 11:29 PM

The least heard sentence in the English language: Is that the professional folk-musician's Rolls in the garage?

Rick


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: GUEST,Guest, leeneia
Date: 26 Apr 00 - 10:55 PM

Here's a point no one has touched on. If you are doing a house concert under the auspices of a not-for-profit org or club, then you need to make a record of the amount of money made from admissions. You also need to make a list of expenses - what amounts were spent on what. Your club treasurer, who has to write a report every year showing what money came in and demonstrating that it was spent on legitimate club expenses, will thank you.


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Subject: RE: Advice re. House Concerts
From: GUEST,Old Ned
Date: 26 Apr 00 - 09:47 PM

Conrad might take his own advice and use the dictionary himself. I think he meant to object to "capitalism" -- not "capitolism", as he stated


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