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Lyr Req: Various English Tunes (closed thread)

GUEST,Steve Hunter (shh19@idt.net) 26 Mar 00 - 10:02 AM
Ed Pellow 26 Mar 00 - 02:41 PM
Ed Pellow 26 Mar 00 - 02:43 PM
pavane 17 Jul 01 - 08:12 AM
Wolfgang 17 Jul 01 - 08:22 AM
GeorgeH 17 Jul 01 - 08:29 AM
Malcolm Douglas 17 Jul 01 - 08:29 AM
pavane 17 Jul 01 - 09:35 AM
GeorgeH 17 Jul 01 - 10:01 AM
Anglo 17 Jul 01 - 10:21 AM
GeorgeH 17 Jul 01 - 10:30 AM
English Jon 17 Jul 01 - 10:57 AM
pavane 17 Jul 01 - 11:18 AM
Anglo 17 Jul 01 - 12:50 PM
GeorgeH 18 Jul 01 - 08:29 AM
Jim Dixon 16 Mar 02 - 01:02 PM
Jim Dixon 16 Mar 02 - 01:21 PM
Jim Dixon 16 Mar 02 - 01:31 PM
Jim Dixon 16 Mar 02 - 01:40 PM
Malcolm Douglas 16 Mar 02 - 04:03 PM
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Subject: Various English Tunes
From: GUEST,Steve Hunter (shh19@idt.net)
Date: 26 Mar 00 - 10:02 AM

Hello, All,

I'm looking for lyrics to the following English Folk Tunes. I found one or two in the database but had no luck on the rest. Any help would be greatly appreciated. If anyone does have the lyrics, might I ask that they be emailed to shh19@idt.net rather than posted to the thread?

The songs are:

Lisbon
Horkstow Grange
Rufford Park Poachers
Duke of Marlboro
Lord Melbourne

Thanks in advance,

Steve Hunter


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Various English Tunes
From: Ed Pellow
Date: 26 Mar 00 - 02:41 PM

Steve,

LISBON is in the database here

HORKSTOW GRANGE can be found here, Rufford Park Poachers here and LORD MARLBOROUGH here.

I don't know about Lord Melbourne, but if you start a separate thread about the song or about Grainger's Lincolnshire Posy I expect you'll have more success.

Ed


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Various English Tunes
From: Ed Pellow
Date: 26 Mar 00 - 02:43 PM

Sorry, for 'Lord Marlborough', read 'The Duke of Marlborough'

It's been a long day

Ed


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Various English Tunes
From: pavane
Date: 17 Jul 01 - 08:12 AM

Just looking for Rufford Park Poachers, to compare with the Blackburn Poachers in Bodley, the Blackburn Poachers in Bodleian Ballads, and the Rufford link given seems to have expired. This excellent song doesn't appear to be in the database (or have I missed a version, as usual?)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Various English Tunes
From: Wolfgang
Date: 17 Jul 01 - 08:22 AM

If I've looked right, all the lyrics you ask for are on this site:

http://www.sover.net/~barrand/rgh/grainger.html

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Various English Tunes
From: GeorgeH
Date: 17 Jul 01 - 08:29 AM

Presumably there is a Grainger link here, Steve?

Home Service (the band, not the former radio station) recorded a version of the Lincolnshire Posey in which they restored the words to some of Grainger's instrumental arrangements. They based their version on Grainger's own arrangement of LP for Military Band. The recording is still available - I think it's on the "Alright Jack" CD.

I would guess the "restoration of the words" was done by John Tams - see recent Sharpe's Rifles threads. (I think I posted this information in one of those threads).

G.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Various English Tunes
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 17 Jul 01 - 08:29 AM

Garry Gillard's  Watersons  site has moved since this thread was started.  New link:

Rufford Park Poachers  Traditional text from Joseph Taylor, plus texts from Martin Carthy and Coope, Boyes & Simpson.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Various English Tunes
From: pavane
Date: 17 Jul 01 - 09:35 AM

Thanks, Malcolm, I only refreshed the thread because the previous link had expired. The Blackburn poacher has a very similar story, and it looks to me as if it would fit the same tune. I have only heard it sung (live) by Nic Jones, but I assume he used a standard tune.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Various English Tunes
From: GeorgeH
Date: 17 Jul 01 - 10:01 AM

Thanks for those links, Malcolm . .

How can anyone suggest that "Unto Brigg Fair" is not part of the UK's folk heritage ??? (said in sadness; I don't really want to start all that again . . )

G.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Various English Tunes
From: Anglo
Date: 17 Jul 01 - 10:21 AM

GeorgeH just said: How can anyone suggest that "Unto Brigg Fair" is not part of the UK's folk heritage ???

Sorry to be dumb, but I missed the reference (from another thread?). Kindly point me at it and I'll get me blunberbuss out of the attic.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Various English Tunes
From: GeorgeH
Date: 17 Jul 01 - 10:30 AM

You don't want to . . It's one of the recordings that languishes in the collection of Celtic Music (Dave Bulmer). I suggested that the stuff he owns the rights to include a large chunk of the UK's folk heritage, and someone who feels I have a persecution complex about Mr Bulmer took the view that the "heritiage" claim was an arguable matter of opinion.

But seriously the thread isn't a very pleasent one. Stupid of me to mention it again, I'm sure.

Regards

George


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Various English Tunes
From: English Jon
Date: 17 Jul 01 - 10:57 AM

My cat said he was going to shit in Dave Bulmer's shoe.

EJ


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Various English Tunes
From: pavane
Date: 17 Jul 01 - 11:18 AM

Think you're right there, GeorgeH


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Various English Tunes
From: Anglo
Date: 17 Jul 01 - 12:50 PM

Oh, sorry George - You were referring to the LP, not the song. And yes I had been following the thread with some interest, but had missed the overlap here. (My brain takes a while to wake up these days).

Fortunately I have a copy of the LP sitting on my shelves.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Various English Tunes
From: GeorgeH
Date: 18 Jul 01 - 08:29 AM

On which bit was I correct, Pavame? The my being stupid? You won't find any argument on that score . .

Yes, sorry, Anglo - it was the album, which Malcolm Douglas' links led to a description of . .

G.


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Subject: Lyr Add: HORKSTOW GRANGE
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 16 Mar 02 - 01:02 PM

Copied from http://www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/~zierke/steeleye.span/songs/horkstowgrange.html

HORKSTOW GRANGE
^^ (Words: Traditional English; Music: Peter Knight)

In Horkstow Grange there lived an old miser
You all do know him as I have heard say
It's him on his man that was named John Bowlin
And they fell out one market day

With a blackthorn stick old Steeleye struck him
As of times he had threatened before
John Bowlin turned round all in a passion
And knocked old Steeleye into the floor

Old Steeleye Span he was filled with John Bowlin
It happened to be on a market day
Old Steeleye swore with all his vengeance
He would swear his life away

Pity them who see him suffer
Pity poor old Steeleye Span
John Bowlin's deeds they will be remembered
Pity poor old Steeleye Span
Pity poor old Steeleye Span

[The title track of Steeleye Span's album "Horkstow Grange" is the song which gave Steeleye Span its name. "We are still asked where the name of the band came from, so here it is…. Steeleye Span, a waggoner who ruined his life because of an incident with John Bowlin. Little did he know that his name would live on." –Peter]


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Subject: Lyr Add: RUFFORD PARK POACHERS (trad. English))
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 16 Mar 02 - 01:21 PM

RUFFORD PARK POACHERS
(As sung by Joseph Taylor on "Unto Brigg Fair," from a cylinder recorded in 1908)

They say that forty gallant poachers they was in a mess;
They'd often been attack-ed when the number it was less.
So poacher bold, as I unfold, keep up your gallant heart,
And think about those poachers bold that night in Rufford Park.

A buck or doe, believe it so, a pheasant or an (h)are
Was sent on earth for everyone quite equal for to share
So poacher bold, as I unfold, keep up your gallant heart,
And think about those poachers bold that night in Rufford Park.

The keepers they begun the fight, with stones and with the flails,
But when the poachers started, why, they quickly turned their tails
So poacher bold, as I unfold, keep up your gallant heart,
And think about those poachers bold that night in Rufford Park.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RUFFORD PARK POACHERS
(As sung by Martin Carthy on "Out of the Cut," and on "Kershaw Sessions.")

They say that forty gallant poachers
They was in a mess
They had often been attacked
When the number it was less

Chorus [after every verse]:
So poacher bold as I unfold
Keep up your gallant heart
And think about the poachers bold
That night in Rufford Park

A buck or doe believe it so
A pheasant or a hare
Was put on earth for everyone
Quite equal for to share

All among the gorse to settle scores
These forty gathered stones
To make a fight for poor men's rights
And break those keeper's bones

The keepers come with flails
Against poachers and their cause
But no man there would dare
To break the rich man's laws

The keepers they began the fight
With stones and with their flails
When the poachers started why
They quickly turned their tales

All on the ground with a mortal wound
Head keeper Roberts lay
He never will rise up again
Till the final judgement day

Of all the band that made their stand
That set a little snare
Just four were brought before the court
And tried for murder there

The judge said for Roberts' death
Transported you must be
To serve a term of fourteen years
In convict slavery

A buck or doe believe it so
A pheasant or a hare
Was put on earth for everyone
Quite equal for to share
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RUFFORD PARK POACHERS
(As sung by Coope, Boyes & Simpson on "Falling Slowly." )

A buck or doe believe it so
A pheasant or a hare
Were set on earth for everyone
Quite equally to share

So poacher bold, as I unfold
Keep up your gallant heart
And think about those poachers bold
That night in Rufford Park

They say that forty gallant poachers
They were in distress
They'd often been attacked when
Their number it was less

Among the gorse, to settle scores
Those forty gathered stones
To make a fight for poor men's rights
And break the keepers' bones

The keepers went with flails against
The poachers and their cause
So no man there again would dare
Defy the rich man's laws

Upon the ground with mortal wound
Head keeper Roberts lay
He never will rise up until
The final judgement day

Of all that band who made a stand
To set a net or snare
The four men brought before the court
Were tried for murder there

The Judge he said "For Robert's death
Transported you must be
To serve a term of forty years
In convict slavery"

So poacher bold, your tale is told
Keep up your gallant heart
And think about those poachers bold
That night in Rufford Park
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RUFFORD PARK POACHERS
(As sung by John Roberts & Tony Barrand on "Heartoutbursts: English Folksongs collected in Lincolnshire by Percy Grainger.")

A buck or doe, believe it so, a pheasant or a hare
Were sent on earth for every man quite equally to share.

Chorus:
So poacher bold, as I unfold, keep up your gallant heart,
And think about those poachers bold, that night in Rufford Park.

They say that forty gallant poachers, they were in distress,
They'd often been attacked when their number it was less.

Among the gorse, to settle scores, these forty gathered stones,
To make a fight for poor men1s rights, and break the keepers1 bones.

The keepers went with flails against the poachers and their cause,
To see that none again would dare defy the rich man1s laws.

The keepers, they began the fray with stones and with their flails,
But when the poachers started, oh, they quickly turned their tails.

Upon the ground, with mortal wound, head-keeper Roberts lay,
He never will rise up until the final Judgment Day.

Of all that band that made their stand to set a net or snare
The four men brought before the court were tried for murder there.

The judge he said, For Roberts1 death transported you must be,
To serve a term of fourteen years in convict slavery.

Final Chorus:
So poacher bold, my tale is told, keep up your gallant heart,
And think about those poachers bold, that night in Rufford Park.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Various English Tunes
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 16 Mar 02 - 01:31 PM

For THE DUKE OF MARLBOROUGH, see LORD MARLBOROUGH in the DT.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Various English Tunes
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 16 Mar 02 - 01:40 PM

I'm confused. According to the lyrics posted in this thread, "Lord Melbourne" and "The Duke of Marlborough" are the same song (cf. "Lord Melbourne" in the DT, link given above). Were Lord Melbourne and The Duke of Marlborough the same person? Is one of the songs historically wrong?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Various English Tunes
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 16 Mar 02 - 04:03 PM

Lord Melbourne was recorded by Grainger from George Wray of Brigg, Lincolnshire, in 1906.  :The name is usually Marlborough; Mr. Wray had confused it with the name of another notable aristocrat.  Further information here:  Lyric Correct? Lord Marlborough

The first Rufford Park text above, that recorded by Percy Grainger from Joseph Taylor of Brigg, Lincolnshire, in 1906 and 1908, is the only authentically traditional set.  The texts transcribed from records by Martin Carthy, Coope, Boyes & Simpson and Roberts & Barrand are all arrangements of the expanded version of the song, which was written around the 1960s by Patrick O'Shaughnessy of Lincolnshire, using material from contemporary accounts of the incident.  They only vary in a few minor particulars.

Horkstow Grange was recorded from George Gouldthorpe of Brigg, Lincolnshire, in 1908.


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