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BS: Veganism

Steve Shaw 09 Sep 21 - 11:45 AM
Stilly River Sage 09 Sep 21 - 10:49 AM
Dave the Gnome 09 Sep 21 - 09:16 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Sep 21 - 09:05 AM
Charmion 09 Sep 21 - 09:03 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Sep 21 - 07:54 AM
Backwoodsman 09 Sep 21 - 07:40 AM
Georgiansilver 09 Sep 21 - 07:28 AM
Senoufou 09 Sep 21 - 07:26 AM
Backwoodsman 09 Sep 21 - 07:26 AM
Sandra in Sydney 09 Sep 21 - 07:18 AM
Donuel 09 Sep 21 - 07:12 AM
Dave the Gnome 09 Sep 21 - 07:06 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Sep 21 - 06:53 AM
Senoufou 09 Sep 21 - 06:07 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Veganism
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Sep 21 - 11:45 AM

The NYT piece is an appalling read. Maybe I'm prejudiced, but that confirmed for me the severe doubts some of us remainers had during brexit about low American food standards, which we were threatened with having to endure once we struck a trade deal after leaving the EU.

I buy burgers from M&S occasionally. It's a food retailer of high repute. Sometimes I make my own from minced steak that I buy from Donald Russell, an online Scottish butcher also of high repute. I treat all raw meat as potentially contaminated and treat my kitchenware and work surfaces, as well as my hands, accordingly. I won't cut corners just because I think no-one is looking. My steaks are medium to rare, but that's fine because the outside and inside of the meat don't get jumbled up. I would never eat a burger that still had even the slightest trace of pink in the middle. I could mince my own beef but I haven't got a sensible spot in our smallish kitchen where I can install a mincer.

We've replaced all of our milk-drinking, except in cups of tea and coffee, with Alpro oat milk. It's fortified with B12, it tastes quite nice, it's fat-free and it doesn't have that sort of vaguely gassy, farty indigestibility of cow's milk.


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Subject: RE: BS: Veganism
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Sep 21 - 10:49 AM

That was a plot point with one of the dates presented to Hugh Grant in Nottinghill. I think it was "fruitarian." Murdered carrots were part of the dinner.

I don't eat anywhere as much meat as I used to - the days are long gone when a whole chicken breast or a large steak were put on the plate with veggies beside it and a salad bowl nearby. The chicken or beef go into other dishes more as flavor or one of many ingredients. Casseroles, fajitas, soups, etc. Maybe I don't eat enough meat or vegetables - my doctors have me take a daily Vitamin D and B12. (Vit. D has to do with calcium retention and it is my age as much as anything affecting that directive.)

I also find that when I go shopping if I leave the register with several bags and the cost was low, I realize I didn't buy any meat. It is the most expensive part of the meal generally. I shop at a warehouse discount grocery that gets meat, veggies, fruit, canned and boxed goods from the wholesale distributors who didn't manage to sell whatever it was. So I buy chicken marked for sale at one of the grocery stores with a red marker slash mark across the price - it's now in the freezer and it is half price. Chicken, beef, sausage, I don't usually see pork chops or sirloin there, but I find enough to keep me going. I never buy the pre-ground beef hamburger any more, not for years (since 2009, in fact) after reading The Burger That Shattered Her Life in the New York Times. I grind my own, usually from chuck roasts I buy on sale.

I have a couple of acquaintances who are quite strident with their vegan mantras - and I ignore it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Veganism
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Sep 21 - 09:16 AM

There was a TV thing once where a cult would only drink water and eat fruit that had fallen. Other than that I cannot remember owt else about it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Veganism
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Sep 21 - 09:05 AM

I suppose one day a scientist will discover that plants are, in fact, sentient beings. Then we won't be able to eat anything. ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Veganism
From: Charmion
Date: 09 Sep 21 - 09:03 AM

One of my many cousins is a militant vegan whose conversion made her both intolerant and intolerable. She periodically floods Facebook with preachy posts that accuse the rest of us of deliberate cruelty. At this point, I almost donít care if I never see her again, and she used to be a close friend.

Yes, Sen, our teeth tell us that Mother Nature wants us to eat food that requires ripping and tearing, such as meat, as well as food that has to be chomped and ground, like fruit & veg. The human gut is happiest when we behave like the omnivores we are and eat some of everything, but not too much of anything.

I donít eat much meat when Iím on my own, so I invite people to dinner so I can have a feed of lamb or duck without resorting to a restaurant. Life is too short to forgo such pleasures.


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Subject: RE: BS: Veganism
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Sep 21 - 07:54 AM

"Carnivores generally suffer from low vitamin D levels"

Untrue. Most dietary sources are animal in origin, such as oily fish, red meat and eggs. If you're a veggie, you might rely more on artificially-fortified sources such as soya milk and breakfast cereals. In summer, take off your shirt and sun yourself for 20 minutes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Veganism
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Sep 21 - 07:40 AM

Behave Mike! :-) :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Veganism
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 09 Sep 21 - 07:28 AM

Being vegan is a big missed steak.


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Subject: RE: BS: Veganism
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Sep 21 - 07:26 AM

Oh thank you for your posts! It was interesting to read that a plant-only diet can provide all the nutrients we need (except Vitamin B12)
I too live in a farming area, and there is an abattoir a few miles away. We often see truckloads of beasts on their way to their deaths, and I'm reminded sometimes of the trains taking Jews to the Death Camps during the War.
My neighbour's son works in a turkey farm (Bernard Matthews' factory) and grabs turkeys for slaughter all through the night. I certainly could not do that.
I think that militant crusading on many subjects is rife at the moment.
People seem to be up in arms about all sorts of hot topics.
I don't actually eat all that much meat (my original post was a bit of a joke) but I couldn't go Vegan if you paid me. Husband loves meat, as he had hardly any when he lived in Africa (too poor, just rice and a few bits of onion etc) He gobbles up large amounts of lamb, beef etc and thoroughly enjoys it.
It is indeed a much-divided topic, and people should respect others' choices I suppose.


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Subject: RE: BS: Veganism
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Sep 21 - 07:26 AM

Going vegan wonít necessarily make you live longer, but it will feel a lot longerÖ ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Veganism
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 09 Sep 21 - 07:18 AM

I love vegiburgers, but don't see any point in plant products that look & taste like meat products. Gimme a real lamb chop, or a schnitzel, or fish or some chicken mince. YUM

Give me a yummy lentil burger where I can see & crunch the lentils! YUM.

I often have falafel or vegibugers with lunch & meat/fish for my evening meal.

Some evening meals have a plan, & I reach straight into the freezer for my protein, other nights I pick over parcels till I find something I want.

sandra (off to the kitchen tonight with vegiburgers in mind!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Veganism
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Sep 21 - 07:12 AM

Vegans proudly exclaim they do not eat anything with a face.
They are utterly faceless.

Carnivores generally suffer from low vitamin D levels and vegans B12.
Life goes on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Veganism
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Sep 21 - 07:06 AM

I am an omnivore and, in the main, have no qualms about eating meat. What does prick my conscience at times though is that we do breed animals just for the slaughter house. Living in sheep farming country as I do I see the lambs every year and wonder what we would think if we were kept by a higher intelligence just so we could breed children for them to eat. Then I remember that sheep are not known for their philosophical views on death and roast lamb is delicious! Still, I do think it would be better if we could grow "meat" in a lab.


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Subject: RE: BS: Veganism
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Sep 21 - 06:53 AM

I'll go vegan when every carnivorous animal species on the planet also goes vegan.

You can get all the nutrients you need without eating animal products but you will struggle to get Vitamin B12 unless you eat foods with supplements. Hmm. If we didn't keep animals for food or dairy, much land unsuitable for crops would go out of use, meaning less food, though I suppose we could always plant trees. Think upland pastures or the areas which require seasonal animal movements because of drought, for example. And developing-world farmers can't always afford artificial fertilisers, so many depend on animal manure. Having said all that, it behoves all of us to eat a bit less meat and to always question hard the welfare of the animals that provide our meat. I do find it galling to read that around half the wheat and barley production of the UK goes for animal feed. That seems entirely wrong to me. But let's keep veganism/vegetarianism as personal choices, free from militant crusading. There are no black-and-whites in this.


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Subject: BS: Veganism
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Sep 21 - 06:07 AM

I expect this has arisen on Mudcat before now, but I have just read an article about the problems of being a meat-eater among Vegans, and it rather interested me.
There seems to be a growing number of Vegans (my much-loved niece is one, and has been for a long time) and I have had no problem with their philosophy. But they do appear to be getting a bit more militant.
(The article called them the Broccoli Brigade, and the Avocado Army, which made me smile.) McDonalds has now introduced McPlant burgers!
My local Facebook has many postings from Vegans, with horrifying accounts of animals suffering in meat production. This I wholeheartedly abhor, and I'm sure the cruelties should be addressed. I love animals, but I'm afraid I'm still happy to eat them!
Also, we are surely made to need meat in our diet? Amino acids or something? Our dentition is carnivorous in design?
Anyone share my dilemma?
I do love a nice steak/bit of fried bacon/lamb or pork chop/ loads of eggs/roast chicken/lean beef mince/oxtail soup/haggis (YAY!)
I don't think the Avocado Army would approve of me one bit.


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