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BS: 2021 vaccination thread

Tattie Bogle 07 Mar 21 - 06:47 PM
Charmion's brother Andrew 07 Mar 21 - 09:05 AM
Stilly River Sage 06 Mar 21 - 11:56 PM
Jeri 06 Mar 21 - 09:15 PM
Joe Offer 06 Mar 21 - 08:23 PM
Charmion 06 Mar 21 - 07:36 PM
Jeri 06 Mar 21 - 03:01 PM
Doug Chadwick 06 Mar 21 - 02:29 PM
Doug Chadwick 06 Mar 21 - 02:22 PM
Steve Shaw 06 Mar 21 - 02:03 PM
Jeri 06 Mar 21 - 10:42 AM
Senoufou 06 Mar 21 - 10:41 AM
Jeri 06 Mar 21 - 10:34 AM
Steve Shaw 06 Mar 21 - 09:45 AM
Stilly River Sage 06 Mar 21 - 09:36 AM
Jeri 06 Mar 21 - 09:30 AM
Steve Shaw 06 Mar 21 - 09:14 AM
Bonzo3legs 06 Mar 21 - 08:08 AM
Mrrzy 06 Mar 21 - 07:49 AM
Jeri 04 Mar 21 - 08:37 PM
Steve Shaw 04 Mar 21 - 08:13 PM
Jeri 04 Mar 21 - 08:07 PM
Steve Shaw 04 Mar 21 - 07:59 PM
Donuel 04 Mar 21 - 07:33 PM
Jeri 04 Mar 21 - 04:36 PM
Charmion 04 Mar 21 - 03:33 PM
Nigel Parsons 04 Mar 21 - 11:11 AM
Jeri 04 Mar 21 - 11:00 AM
robomatic 04 Mar 21 - 10:04 AM
Steve Shaw 04 Mar 21 - 09:58 AM
Mrrzy 04 Mar 21 - 09:20 AM
Donuel 04 Mar 21 - 08:55 AM
Senoufou 04 Mar 21 - 08:34 AM
Donuel 04 Mar 21 - 08:29 AM
Senoufou 04 Mar 21 - 07:21 AM
Thompson 04 Mar 21 - 04:39 AM
Bonzo3legs 04 Mar 21 - 01:59 AM
robomatic 03 Mar 21 - 07:42 PM
Steve Shaw 03 Mar 21 - 05:43 PM
Mrrzy 03 Mar 21 - 04:41 PM
Steve Shaw 02 Mar 21 - 07:34 PM
Mrrzy 02 Mar 21 - 06:46 PM
Jeri 02 Mar 21 - 06:19 PM
Steve Shaw 02 Mar 21 - 05:42 PM
Steve Shaw 02 Mar 21 - 05:36 PM
Jeri 02 Mar 21 - 05:24 PM
Steve Shaw 02 Mar 21 - 05:14 PM
Jos 02 Mar 21 - 04:22 PM
Steve Shaw 02 Mar 21 - 02:57 PM
Mrrzy 02 Mar 21 - 02:39 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 07 Mar 21 - 06:47 PM

Yes, that's how smallpox vaccine was given, using a "scarifier" to scratch the skin repeatedly. Most people of my generation had it as babies and developed a small scar. I decided to go to Morocco on holiday at age 21 and had to be vaccinated against smallpox again so that I could produce a valid vaccination certificate before travelling there: no new scar from that. Then 3 months later, as part of our medical training in immunology, we medical students had to vaccinate each other! So I got done twice in 3 months - no ill- effects and no new scars!
BCG vaccination for TB also gave most people a scar, but that was after a sort of indolent ulcer developed at the injection site, and took weeks to heal.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Charmion's brother Andrew
Date: 07 Mar 21 - 09:05 AM

The last time I got a smallpox vaccination was in the mid-1970s (I cannot remember if it was in recruit or officer training, but it was more likely the former). The instrument used was a flat implement of steel like that of a safety razor blade, about 30 mm long and 5 mm wide, with a equilateral triangular "tooth" with sides of about 2.5 mm on one end. The medical assistant (MA) swabbed the vaccination site and applied a droplet of the vaccine to the "target area." The MA then stabbed the droplet and pierced the skin repeatedly with the tooth, maybe a dozen times. She then applied a bandage to the site, and I was off, in the finest traditions of the service, to physical training where all of us with recent perforations to our deltoids did push-ups.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 11:56 PM

Jeri, I meant that you hadn't actually caught smallpox or polio BECAUSE you most likely had the vaccines instead. I wasn't clear enough.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 09:15 PM

Joe and Charmion, I think when I was small, I was told the smallpox vaccine was administered via tiny cuts in the skin, so I imagined razor blades. When I was older, and got a booster, I remember seeing the single use multi-pronged poky things.

I could still find my smallpox scar, right up to when it got tattooed over.

And TB tests come in a couple different varieties. The simple one, the screening test, is another sort of poky thing. If it comes up positive, you have to get a PPD (purified protein derivative, if it matters), which is given with a needle. The screening test has occasional false positives. The PPD doesn't. The Air Force only gives the IPPD.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 08:23 PM

Gee, I always thought the scar from smallpox vaccinations was caused by a "pox" at the injection site. I thought it was injected with a regular needle, and then the reaction caused a scab and a scar.
https://www.healthline.com/health/smallpox-vaccine-scar


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Charmion
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 07:36 PM

Scalpel, Jeri. I had two smallpox vaccinations: one in 1960, so I could start school, and the next in 1974, when I joined the regular force.

I never had MMR because I had all those diseases, plus chicken pox, before the inoculations were invented. Polio was the injectable — Salk, I think — version, not droplets on a sugar cube, and we got boosters every year at school. Typhus, typhoid types A & B, tetanus and diphtheria was a single big fat (probably 10-cc) syringe with pink stuff in it, and we got boosters of that, too.

The tuberculosis test was also done at school every year, with a machine that made a noise like a stapler as the technician pressed its business end on our wrists so it could inject a tiny dose of reagent under the outermost layer of skin. In the forces, for some strange reason, we did the TB test the old-fashioned way, with a small syringe and a fine needle slipped between the layers of skin. I never saw a kid faint at a school needle parade, but one or two went down every week during basic — always at either the blood sample station or the TB test. It was seeing the needle pierce the skin that did it.

In the service, I was inoculated against several tropical diseases, too. The yellow fever shot stung something wicked and the cholera shot made me a little feverish, but nothing more.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 03:01 PM

The smallpox wasn't a jab. There was this little round thing with blade to cut the skin, and the "vaccination" was in the tiny cuts. I was told that initially, the skin was cut with razor blades. I don't know how true that is, but the large round scar is because ot the way the vaccine was administered.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 02:29 PM

In fact, the smallpox vaccination as an adult was a booster. The one I received as a child left a scar. This was expected and my sister was given hers in her hip so that the scar would not show when she wore short sleeved blouses.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 02:22 PM

I had the polio vaccination as a child as a course of three injections. This was followed by a booster on a sugar lump as an adult. I received the smallpox vaccination as an adult which was given by a scratch with a scalpel rather than by injection with a needle.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 02:03 PM

I don't remember the smallpox jab being routinely on offer, though I saw a few people who'd had one. I had the polio one on sugar lumps as I recall. I suffered mumps and measles. When we were pregnant with child numero uno we had a huge scare apropos of rubella. It turned out that Mrs Steve had never had it, so was signed off work for six weeks in the school she taught at as a child there had caught rubella. My mum couldn't remember whether I'd ever had it, so I had to take time off until I was tested. Turned out that I'd had it. It got me two weeks off work though! :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 10:42 AM

Addendum: I haven't had polio or smallpox. I've known people who have, but I've only had the immunizations. But I think SRS was talking to else-folks.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 10:41 AM

My much-loved neighbour-across-the-road had her jab on the same day as me. I asked her the next day if she felt alright? Did she feel any side-effects? Headache? Sore arm?
She's broad Norfolk and a real old-fashioned villager. She looked at me in bewilderment, thought for a moment, then answered, "Woi?" That's all she said. I had to laugh. People here don't believe in making a mountain out of a molehill, and like Steve they just get on with it.
Very good philosophy of life in my opinion.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 10:34 AM

Me? I've had polio and smallpox. Never had the MMR, because I got all those diseases. Measles almost killed me, and I didn't get chicken pox until I was 13, and I got it BAD. Most people these days are of an age where they never had to deal with these things. For all they know, the shot is worse than the illness, plus, people think they can live forever. So we're having a re-surgence of these things. “Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it.”

I don't think it's "knowing". I think it's ignoring.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 09:45 AM

Whenever I've got anything medical coming up, I never think about it in advance. Not even if it's having a tooth out. Gotta be done, can't be helped, nobody'll die. I didn't give my jab a thought beforehand. I drove to the jab centre, had the jab and ten minutes later was arguing in the supermarket with Mrs Steve about how many bottles of my favourite wine, on offer with 33% off, to put in the wagon...

It's only a little prick, for God's sake, as the bishop said to the duchess...

And no reactions!


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 09:36 AM

You probably also haven't had polio or smallpox—those vaccines are so far back you don't even think of them.

When I went to graduate school in the 1990s the paperwork asked when were my measles, mumps, rubella, and chicken pox vaccines. Sorry, I had to report, I had those diseases and formed my own immunity (hence making sure to get the Shingrix shots now).


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 09:30 AM

I figure it's the second of a two-shot regimen that mostly affects people, so I just won't plan anything for after. (As if I might have plans.) As someone who had a bit of a nasty reaction (flu-like symptoms for 3-ish days. Yay, immune response!) to a flu shot a couple times in the past few years, I won't worry about it.
I quit giving blood because the last few times, I got a nasty migraine afterwards. But shots? Having been in the military, I managed to avoid the plague vaccine, and anthrax. HepA & B, rabies, yellow fever, typhoid, I've had. Plus, the old peoples' vaccines for pneumonia and shingles. Probably more that I can't remember. Mostly, I get a sore arm. I'm happy to say I've had none of those diseases.
The Covid-19 shot seems like a walk in the park.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 09:14 AM

Well my jaw aches and I dribble down one side after a filling anaesthetic. I often got a big bruise after giving blood or after a blood test. I've had lots of risky X-rays. I've just spent four days with a headache and bellyache taking an antibiotic that is hopefully making me get better.

All these things are just like having any jab. They are medical interventions. They are not exactly what our physiology expects. A reaction is not unlikely. But the science has gone to great lengths to demonstrate that the jabs are safe. You're far more likely to die in the dentist's chair. We don't need this constant emphasis on the negatives.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 08:08 AM

Not a problem then, no more than forgetting a coat when the temperature suddenly drops in April.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 07:49 AM

In all the shifts I have worked at the vax center, there has been 1 reaction requiring an ambulance, and 1 person who drove back 3 days after the jab to say she was still having a reaction and wanted advice. Don't know what either reaction was.

Of all the folks I know personally who have had their second jab, only one had any not-just-sore-or-tired reaction, and it was a fit of shivering and feeling like they were freezing, which happened about 15 hours later and lasted about 20 mn.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Mar 21 - 08:37 PM

When they recommended people with SEVERE allergies not get the vaccine, I think it was because a person's immune system may be prone to freaking out. I don't know what the status of it is now. I think it should be manageable if a person knows they might have a severe reaction, has an epi pen, and consults with the medics at the vaccine site.

I'm only allergic to penicillin, and something unidentifiable in buildings in the UK that caused me to have asthma. I'm pretty sure the penicillin thing isn't a current thing.although I'll try not to get gonorrhea, I have friends who aren't so lucky (allergies, not gonorrhea).


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 21 - 08:13 PM

Common allergies to various foodstuffs or cat hair, etc., don't count. It's an allergy to a vaccine ingredient that matters. Anyone worried can seek advice. I suppose that anyone with a whole array of allergies might have concerns that need checking out. It's easy enough to find out what's in each vaccine. Nothing's perfect, of course.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Mar 21 - 08:07 PM

I think it's really rare, and from what I read, it wasn't really a surprise to people who had that reaction. The ones I heard about it had epi pens. I figure if people have severe allergies, it might be predictable. Anaphylaxis is a response to an allergen - something that provokes an immune response. A vaccine provokes an immune response. Last I heard, they were advising people with severe allergies to avoid the shot. They have to have paramedics available at the vaccination sites.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 21 - 07:59 PM

The rate of anaphylaxis for the Pfizer vaccine is around 11 people in a million. Anaphylaxis is an extreme allergic reaction. The vast majority, if not all, of those cases involve people who are allergic to one of the ingredients in the vaccine. It's possible for anyone worried about allergy to have a pre-vaccination discussion with a health professional who specialises in allergy. To give this context, you need to consider the adverse reactions to any medical procedure. Could be to an anaesthetic at the dentist or before an operation, or to having a CT scan or an MRI scan, or a chest X-ray, or donating blood, or having a blood test, or taking paracetamol. I had an operation on my lumbar vertebrae a few years ago. Before I "went under," the surgeon leaned over me, said that there was a one in 300 chance of my dying on the operating table, and did I still want to go ahead. Too bloody right I did: I'd suffered excruciating pain for years.

Can't speak for the US, but here every vaccination centre has someone there at all times who is trained to deal with the emergency of anaphylaxis. Unless you know of an allergy to a vaccine ingredient, using the extremely remote risk of anaphylaxis as an excuse to not have the jab is unacceptable.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Mar 21 - 07:33 PM

I hate anaphylaxis, but immunity or something near immunity is great.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Mar 21 - 04:36 PM

80.5 million vaccine doses given in the USA. Side effects seem to be a sore arm and flu-like symptoms. I haven't read anything recently on people with anaphylaxis, but there's that, too.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Charmion
Date: 04 Mar 21 - 03:33 PM

We are all participants in the great uncontrolled experiment of Life, which includes many smaller experiments that may or may not be meaningfully controlled.

For most of us, the vaccination campaign is like those scratch-and-win discount coupons they sometimes hand out at big department stores and supermarkets -- scratch the panel to find out if you get 10, 15, 25, 50 percent off, or the big bonanza of Everything Is Free. We know that the vaccine will help, just not precisely how much. We also don't know how likely we are to experience an "adverse reaction" (love that phrase), but so far most of us believe that it won't be much worse than a sore arm and maybe feeling crappy for a day or two.

Since doing nothing seems likely to leave me more vulnerable than I would be with the jab, I'll go with the jab. There is no perfect information. That's my best guess.

Incidentally, Nigel, "hinky" means "strange verging on suspicious".


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Mar 21 - 11:11 AM

Robomatic:
It still seems to me to be a little hinky on your part to have been helping out at a vax site

"Hinky, what does that mean?"

Sorry, Robo, gratuitous quote from Tommy Lee Jones in the film "The Fugitive"


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Mar 21 - 11:00 AM

For someone with a decent amount of training in pathogens and immune responses, it still comes off as paranoid. We can't all have had education in vaccinations, and some of us won't believe anything people tell us. I figure mind-changing is probably not a possibility.

I'd love to know what it would look like to be sure about untested effects. Nobody's testing the effects, other than for immune response, which they've already done, so I think you meant something else (?), but I still wonder what it would take for you to be satisfied.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Mar 21 - 10:04 AM

Mrrzy:

You have synopsized your concerns and I guess they are consistent with your previous posts. BUT:

You are now fast approaching if not past decision time and others are part of the process, particularly if you intend to rejoin close association with the human race as it hopefully approaches this thing called herd immunity.

It still seems to me to be a little hinky on your part to have been helping out at a vax site, presumably with access to all the information you could wish, and still be reluctant on your own part to get the jab. And some of your posts in between have been less than fully aware of actual covid and vaccine realities.

We are ALL facing 'untested effects' by definition. I can't promise you that the jab is 100% safe. No one can.

A time comes to 'fish or cut bait'. Are you afraid of a 'children of the damned' situation? "one of us! one of us! one of us!"


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 21 - 09:58 AM

Well you haven't made it clear, to me at least, what "risk factor" you think you harbour. Yes you come here to give your tuppence-worth, as do we all. But you've peppered this thread with a fair few implied or explicit negatives which you don't support particularly convincingly. There's a pandemic on that's killing people in droves, and there's been an amazing response from science in a miraculously short time with no corners cut (whatever you may think). The vaccines are safe for virtually everyone and they are effective enough to bring this pandemic crashing down in short order. We all know that nothing's perfect, and nothing would have been perfect had we waited ten years for the vaccines. Reasonable people want an end to the misery and what we don't need is unreasonable doubts being scattered all over the place. Don't have the jab. The rest of us will have to protect you, that's all.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Mar 21 - 09:20 AM

Wups yes the risk factor should have gone into the new news thread. *But* I was referring to my waiting for the jab till people with risk factors got'm first, even though I was offered one because of helping out at the vax site. Yes I *also* want to wait for the effects to be known. But now I have a risk factor, so, hmmm.

I repeat that I am not antivax in general nor recommending anybody else not get the jab. I just wanted to wait because I was a) unsure about untested effects and b) in a group that could wait, anyway. And I was glad to be in the waiting to be last group. Now a) is still true but b) apparently isn't. So I put something in this thread, which is what it is about.

My purpose in posting to *any* thread us the same,.. To add my tuppenny'orth to the ongoing conversation. Just like all y'all.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Mar 21 - 08:55 AM

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/great-apes-at-san-diego-zoo-get-animal-version-of-covid-19-vaccine/#x


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Senoufou
Date: 04 Mar 21 - 08:34 AM

Sorry, to clarify my last post, the proof of being free from TB is for people coming INTO UK FROM several countries, including from most of West Africa. No entry is permitted without this, and the aim is to prevent tuberculosis infecting residents here.
I think countries/public places/anywhere that people mix have the right to insist on vaccination proof in order to protect everybody. Covid is deadly, and even if one survives, one can be terribly weakened for a very long time (eg my poor sister)
My husband has been tested a third time for Covid at the school where he works. He is eagerly awaiting a call for his jab.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Mar 21 - 08:29 AM

ibid robo
same as robo post


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Senoufou
Date: 04 Mar 21 - 07:21 AM

Anyone entering most West African countries must have proof of a Yellow Fever vaccination. One used to have to have a booster, but now a single jab lasts for life.
One cannot enter the countries there without this proof (It's like a small passport)
Also, one needs proof of being free from TB, and a fairly recent X-ray document is required.
I think the time will come when one will need similar proof of a Covid vaccination to be allowed to fly, book into a hotel, even enter a restaurant or bar etc. Abroad and probably here at home too.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Thompson
Date: 04 Mar 21 - 04:39 AM

Anyone who doesn't want vaccines: would they like smallpox back? And polio?


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Mar 21 - 01:59 AM

People who refuse the vaccine are stupidly selfish.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 07:42 PM

Mrzzy:

You've been participating in this thread since early days -of the thread' and making comments as to bits you've heard and conclusions you've drawn. You even had a snipped about apparently working where vaccines were being given and somehow you imply without thought for yourself you turned down the opporunity of a jab. After this, you supplemented these messages with the information that you had no intention of getting the jab for your own reasons, which, assuming you've shared everything, which I now doubt, are not really good or well thought out reasons.

You are still contributing to the thread, but for what purpose?

Meanwhile, since this is a brand new pandemic, it turns out that some of the folks who get sick don't really get well. They are being called "long haulers".

You can consider the administration of the vaccines in their millions, as they are now, as a massive uncontrolled experiment. But we are learning and will continue to learn, the fallout of seocndary effects from the vaccine.

While this thread is vastly beyond the minor messaging available through Twitter, the back-and-forth via forum threads is no comparison to the massively complex subject that is vaccine design and administration. These are extremely complex things. If you ask an actual researcher or someone with experience (such as Dr. Fauci), you often get a long, conditional response that may not strike you as confirmatory. That is what real response sounds like. The pithy responses that you hear from those with political axes to grind, or those who only want the easy yes-or-no answer, are just that.

We have had a world-wide disease that is new, but is related to SARS. It has a known kill rate, but much about it is unknown even now, and will remain so until data have been tabulated and reviewed, and more minds have spent time on it. It is known to mutate, but the significance of how much and how bad is unknown as of this date. Like the rest of life, uncertainties exist.

But there is a history of vaccines and how they are developed, what they can and can't do, and this vaccine is taking place in that tradition. I think it is safe to say that most reports are that where the vaccine is administered, the sickness and death counts get significantly better. So these vaccines have been tested to be safe and effective, and that seems to be borne out by numbers from around the world.

The idea of herd immunity is that once a high percentage of the population is vaccinated, incidence and transmission fall. At some point, transmission falls to zero. There are people who never get vaccinated for legitimate medical reasons, but they obtain their safety by the majority of their fellows being vaccinated.

Maybe you do not believe in this stuff. At least you should say so. Your objections or relegation to quibbling on details do not sound like that of someone who is endangered by the vaccine; Rather,they sound like someone who doesn't believe that it applies to themself.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 05:43 PM

Well, again, let's be clear and not propagate misinformation. Risk factors regarding susceptibility to infection or to severe disease apropos of your blood group/blood type may well vary according to what you've got. That is to be expected and is normal, in that our genetics are all different, including blood groups. But this is not a susceptibility-to-coronavirus thread. It's a vaccination thread. The risk factors you refer to have nothing to do with the vaccines. I haven't seen any evidence that any vaccine is any more dangerous to any specific blood type. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Otherwise, it looks like you're clutching at straws.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 04:41 PM

Hmm... better info is appearing on blood group stuff. Group A is, like they said a while back and then weren't so sure, more at risk. Well, there goes my "I have no risk factors" thought...

Not putting my link here.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Mar 21 - 07:34 PM

Let's just be really clear here. No "stem cells" were used either in the production or testing of our current vaccines. The cells that WERE used are thousands of generations down the line from the original stem cells and were not obtained from aborted foetuses. Now we know how they originated, and it's down to each one of us to make a moral judgement for ourselves. But we should take into account the fact that the vaccines are going to save hundreds of thousands of lives. To coin a cliche, we are where we are, and even the Vatican, reluctantly I'm sure, recognises that.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Mar 21 - 06:46 PM

The stem cells were cloned from a 1970's fetus. All used them in development / research but J&J also use them in production.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Mar 21 - 06:19 PM

From Nebraska Medicine:
To make their virus vector vaccine, Johnson & Johnson infects PER.C6 fetal cell line cells with adenovirus. All PER.C6 cells used to manufacture the Johnson & Johnson vaccine are descended from tissue taken from a 1985 elective abortion that also took place in the Netherlands.?They use this cell line because it is a well-studied industry standard for safe and reliable production of viral vector vaccines.

None of the COVID-19 vaccines in development use fetal cells taken from recent abortions.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Mar 21 - 05:42 PM

I've just read carefully the Vatican statement you posted. Within the context of the Church's anti-abortion position, I think the judgement is measured and wise.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Mar 21 - 05:36 PM

He did, and I hope that does enough. I can well understand people with views on abortion different to mine having a bigger tussle with their conscience than I have. I just hope that there's not going to be conflation with the issues that vaccine-doubters with other reasons harbour.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Mar 21 - 05:24 PM

The Pope says the vaccine is kosher. Well, maybe my terminology is a little off, but the vaccine is ok.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Mar 21 - 05:14 PM

It is highly possible but not certain that the embryonic kidney cells came from an electively-aborted foetus. It's worth pointing out, though it won't mollify everyone, that the cell line from that culture is immortal and that the process by which those cells were originally obtained will never have to be repeated. There is no recipe for future abortions. I suppose it's possible to argue, as I will, that, whatever your stance on abortion, the abortion did happen, it didn't happen specifically to get those cells, and that, by using the descendants of those cells to produce a vaccine, at least some good came out of bad. I can respect the unhappiness that many people will feel about this, but the vaccine is now out there and is going to save countless thousands of lives. As I said, good coming out of bad. I can live with myself on that, and it has nothing to do with what I think about abortion in general.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Jos
Date: 02 Mar 21 - 04:22 PM

Regarding the stem cells, this is from my post on 22 January after I had the Oxford vaccine:

'On leaving, I was given a small card with my name on it, the date, and the vaccine type and batch number, and a sheet of paper to read, which includes near the top:

"Read all of this leaflet carefully before the vaccine is given because it contains important information for you."

There is a list of possible side effects, but the bit of information that does worry me is that the vaccine is:

"Produced in genetically modified human embryonic kidney (HEK) 293 cells."'

I investigated this on line and discovered that the HEK cells originated from an abortion in the Netherlands in the 1970s.

It is likely that the J&J vaccine also uses those cells. But perhaps the Catholics who were "told the J&J vaccine is immoral" [who by?] have checked the facts themselves and made up their own minds about the morality of the vaccine, rather than waiting to be told by the Pope. The Pope has decreed that use of these cells is acceptable in the absence of an alternative.

I looked for a vaccine that doesn't use them but all I found was one that is undergoing tests, which uses African Green Monkey cells - which strikes me as more immoral as there must be far fewer African green monkeys than there are people..


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Mar 21 - 02:57 PM

Do tell us more about those stem cells.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Mar 21 - 02:39 PM

Have you heard Catholics in some places are being told the J&J vaccine is immoral, even tho the pope said it's ok? Stem cells are involved.


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