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BS: new words / usage

Donuel 09 Dec 20 - 09:35 PM
Lighter 08 Dec 20 - 06:19 PM
robomatic 08 Dec 20 - 10:37 AM
Raedwulf 08 Dec 20 - 09:36 AM
Lighter 08 Dec 20 - 08:34 AM
robomatic 07 Dec 20 - 10:04 PM
Donuel 07 Dec 20 - 10:41 AM
Lighter 07 Dec 20 - 10:03 AM
The Man from UNCOOL 06 Dec 20 - 09:30 PM
Mrrzy 05 Dec 20 - 02:01 PM
gillymor 04 Dec 20 - 08:38 AM
Mr Red 04 Dec 20 - 07:51 AM
Lighter 03 Dec 20 - 07:31 AM
Mr Red 03 Dec 20 - 03:17 AM
Donuel 02 Dec 20 - 07:29 PM
Joe_F 01 Dec 20 - 09:07 PM
Doug Chadwick 01 Dec 20 - 12:14 PM
Mrrzy 01 Dec 20 - 09:57 AM
Doug Chadwick 01 Dec 20 - 05:24 AM
Lighter 30 Nov 20 - 07:45 PM
Donuel 30 Nov 20 - 02:15 PM
Mrrzy 30 Nov 20 - 01:56 PM
Mr Red 30 Nov 20 - 02:21 AM
Tattie Bogle 29 Nov 20 - 06:34 PM
Doug Chadwick 28 Nov 20 - 09:57 PM
Steve Shaw 28 Nov 20 - 06:52 PM
Charmion 28 Nov 20 - 02:18 PM
leeneia 28 Nov 20 - 01:49 PM
meself 28 Nov 20 - 12:25 PM
Mr Red 28 Nov 20 - 10:36 AM
McGrath of Harlow 28 Nov 20 - 04:36 AM
Charmion 27 Nov 20 - 04:49 PM
Jos 27 Nov 20 - 12:00 PM
Mrrzy 27 Nov 20 - 11:42 AM
Charmion 27 Nov 20 - 11:09 AM
meself 27 Nov 20 - 10:47 AM
ketchdana 27 Nov 20 - 03:52 AM
Mr Red 27 Nov 20 - 03:28 AM
Mr Red 27 Nov 20 - 03:25 AM
BobL 27 Nov 20 - 02:08 AM
Mrrzy 26 Nov 20 - 03:00 PM
leeneia 26 Nov 20 - 12:34 PM
Mr Red 26 Nov 20 - 12:08 PM
Senoufou 19 Nov 20 - 03:56 AM
Jos 18 Nov 20 - 01:54 PM
leeneia 18 Nov 20 - 01:22 PM
Bonzo3legs 17 Nov 20 - 06:21 PM
Mrrzy 17 Nov 20 - 05:26 PM
Jos 16 Nov 20 - 08:20 AM
Mr Red 16 Nov 20 - 08:05 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Dec 20 - 09:35 PM

My lifespan is so short and the republicans so staunchly arrogant imo, I always took the change from common reference to a democratic party to be an insult like 'card carrying' liberals - since they were referring to communists. Republicans today are less democratic than ever.

The current return to another phase and form of McCarthyism has turned America against itself largely with the help of the internet. No longer will a single Robert R Murrow lead from a broadcast medium up a path to the truth.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Lighter
Date: 08 Dec 20 - 06:19 PM

You're quite welcome.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Dec 20 - 10:37 AM

Thank you Lighter. I enjoyed reading your post. It was quite illuminating!


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Raedwulf
Date: 08 Dec 20 - 09:36 AM

On Friday, I came up with Slain - Precipitation when it's at the point where you can't tell whether it's sleet or rain. You could call it Reet of course. But that would be silly! ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Lighter
Date: 08 Dec 20 - 08:34 AM

It's a little more complicated than that. The Democratic Party was founded around 1828 under that name, but in early use many people apparently used "Democrat party" as well, without prejudice.

Kalamazoo Gazette (Sept. 1, 1838), p.2:

"Resolved, that the allegation so often made and repeated by the Federal Press that the Democrat Party is opposed to the credit system, and to all Banks, and in favor of an exclusively metalic [sic] currency is utterly false."


It only became an obvious slight when the Democrats themselves quit using it, and the Republicans started using it all the time.

The invidious imputation may be that a "Democratic" party stands for democracy, but a "Democrat" party is just made up of people who call themselves small-d democrats.

If I had to guess, I'd guess that the Republicans began saying "Democrat Party" in earnest during the Depression, when they absolutely despised Franklin Roosevelt, but it would be only a guess.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Dec 20 - 10:04 PM

I want to go on record endorsing Donuel's explanation of Democrat Party as an insulting reference to the Democratic party. It's like being called "Tony" when you and your friends are used to calling you
"Anthony". It's a slight because it is perceived as such. Maybe you can rise above it, maybe you should rise above it, but the perception is there.

It's a clever way to be mean and get under thin skins.

I didn't know the ploy went back to McCarthy in the 50s.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Dec 20 - 10:41 AM

A golfer played the 17th hole with a score of 15. For a time pulling a Norman was equivalent to an epic fail. Greg Norman is lucky to have outlived the distinction.

Perhaps one could pull a Rudy, who currently is carrying the Covid infection. But who else could ever lose 32 lawsuits in 3 weeks?


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Lighter
Date: 07 Dec 20 - 10:03 AM

Interesting.

The online OED gives a single example of the noun, from 1903.

I've never heard it used in the U.S. or read it anywhere.

Same goes for the corresponding verb, which OED surprisingly dates from "c1425." Their latest citation is from 1798.

FWIW, I don't see a citation from 1348, though Chaucer used the sense "to trumpet or proclaim" in 1384.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: The Man from UNCOOL
Date: 06 Dec 20 - 09:30 PM

Lighter, the OED records the first usage in 1348. It's hardly current! I used the reference in a song about DJT, and no-one got it. I heard Jeremy Hardy point it out.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Dec 20 - 02:01 PM

Indirect object of love! I steal.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: gillymor
Date: 04 Dec 20 - 08:38 AM

And it still is-
Rudy trumping in court


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mr Red
Date: 04 Dec 20 - 07:51 AM

It certainly has left an almighty stink!


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Dec 20 - 07:31 AM

What's amazing is that the British word hasn't caught on here in Trump Country.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mr Red
Date: 03 Dec 20 - 03:17 AM

is Trump a proper name? It certainly is a verb, and an (sic) homonym.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 07:29 PM

There is always the trick of turning someone's proper name into a verb


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Joe_F
Date: 01 Dec 20 - 09:07 PM

Wilson Follett, in _Modern American Usage_ (1966), quotes "Gift him with a shoe on Father's Day" and comments "unlucky, one-legged, indirect object of his children's love!".


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 01 Dec 20 - 12:14 PM

I think that verb is Give, no?

To gift


DC


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Dec 20 - 09:57 AM

I think that verb is Give, no?


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 01 Dec 20 - 05:24 AM

If you bought it they did not give it to you at all, they sold it to you. "Give in exchange for" is an oxymoron.

I agree Mrrzy and I acknowledged that when I included i.e. I buy it from them;. "Give in exchange for" was a definition. If the exchange had been for another item, rather than money, the term would have been "swap".

The point is, there are verbs such as to sell, to swap, to lend, etc., which concisely explain under what condition things are given. It doesn't seem unreasonable that there should be a verb for the condition of "give as a gift".

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Lighter
Date: 30 Nov 20 - 07:45 PM

Joe McCarthy was calling it the "Democrat party" around 1950.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Nov 20 - 02:15 PM

Steve, it goes further than that. For over 200 years Drmocrats belonged to the Democratic Party. Around the time of Republican Gingrich the conservatives changed the name of the Democratic party and have ever since refered to it as the Democrat party.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 Nov 20 - 01:56 PM

If you bought it they did not give it to you at all, they sold it to you. "Give in exchange for" is an oxymoron.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mr Red
Date: 30 Nov 20 - 02:21 AM

I use the English (English) lexicon for FireFox, but it can't spell a load of things and tries to tell me I am wrong. Because it uses a common dictionary and tries to attend to differences. And fails more than it gets it write (sic).


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 29 Nov 20 - 06:34 PM

Well that’s fairly similar, but not always the same as, donate. And now sometimes you see “donators” instead of “donors “ (“donators “ even came up in predictive text there!)


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 09:57 PM

Gifting is not the same as giving except in one specific circumstance.


Someone could give me something in exchange for money - i.e. I buy it from them;

They could give me something that I already own - e.g. a coat that I left for safe keeping;

They might give me a parcel to deliver to someone else;

I might ask someone to give me something because I am too lazy to get up and get it for myself;

They might give me something on loan, expecting me to return it after a specified time.


None of these would involve the transfer of ownership, expecting nothing in return.

"To gift" is simply shorthand for "to give as a gift".

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 06:52 PM

If you call someone a democrat (in the context we're discussing) you are isolating them as an entity of one person. If you say that someone is a member of the Democrat(ic) party you are implying that they're in unity with thousands of others. Millions, even. It's spin, and it's to do with divide and rule. Call it out every time.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Charmion
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 02:18 PM

Leeneia, if we all aspired to talk like lawyers, the world would be even more infuriating than it is already.

Canadian lawyers never use “give” when they can say (or write) “provide”. Aaaagh!


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: leeneia
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 01:49 PM

Hi, Charmion. I used to work in a law office, and lawyers were using 'gift' as a verb years ago, I think because in their minds gifts were linked to gift taxes.

When lawyers talk of gifts, they aren't talking about Christmas presents, they are talking about the $20,000 you can give somebody per year without triggering tax for yourself. (This is under U.S. law.)

As you say, it's only recently that non-lawyers started using gift as a verb. I think it's clumsy.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: meself
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 12:25 PM

"What's the difference ... " I was wondering about that, too. The only interpretation I can figure out is that it may imply something like, "You may call yourself 'Democrats' - but you are not democratic." (Not that Republicans are big on democracy; in fact, they have taken to insisting that the US "is not a democracy; it's a republic!", as a refutation to that charge.)


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mr Red
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 10:36 AM

As the French say - esprit de l'escalier = "wit of the staircase"

Imagine if you will:

someone comes up with a witicism

Oscar Wilde says "My, I wish oid sed thaaaat"

James McNeil Whistler says "Oh you will, Oscar, YOU will".


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 04:36 AM

Why is there anything insulting about "Democrat Party" rather than "Democratic Party"? It sounds a reasonable term, since its members are Democrats. What's the difference that matters?


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Charmion
Date: 27 Nov 20 - 04:49 PM

Sorry to chew old cabbage, Jos.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Jos
Date: 27 Nov 20 - 12:00 PM

Charmion, we have discussed 'gift' recently.

Scroll down to 9 November and you will find my post followed by four further comments.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Nov 20 - 11:42 AM

Ooh I *like* that. Belated and inarticulate is my normal state of being.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Charmion
Date: 27 Nov 20 - 11:09 AM

This year's most persistent new usage, at least in my corner of reality, is the sudden appearance of "gift", previously a noun, where I expect to see its verb version "give". I was unaware of it in normal speech until a few months ago, when I complimented a restaurant server on her pearl necklace and she replied, "Why thank you! My mother gifted it to me."

Why "gifted"? Why not "gave"?

A cursory prowl through Google results tells me that the form dates back to the 17th century, but I can honestly say that I have never heard anyone actually say it until this year. And suddenly it's all over advertising copy; it's as if "give" in all its tenses has left the building.

Colour me irked.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: meself
Date: 27 Nov 20 - 10:47 AM

So 'staircase wit' is what Edith Wharton termed, 'the belated eloquence of the inarticulate'.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: ketchdana
Date: 27 Nov 20 - 03:52 AM

Late one night:
"Why are you crawling around under the street light?"
"Lost my keys."
"Here, on the corner?"
"No, back there 'bout half a block."
"So why are you looking here?"
"The light is better here."

Lamppost reasoning / "drunkard's search" -- maybe it means (re)searching where it's easier, or more convenient, or funding is available, or it's the only background info you know, or the light is better... rather than where the answer lies.
Reference: the cartoon in another version of what I think is the one you (Mr Red) linked to.

https://indico.nikhef.nl/event/1815/contribution/1/material/slides/0.pdf
(That cartoon looks a lot like the style of mudcatter jfweldon. Jus'sayin')


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mr Red
Date: 27 Nov 20 - 03:28 AM

Staircase Wit


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mr Red
Date: 27 Nov 20 - 03:25 AM

Thanx, makes sense in the context. - I have heard that one as a 1930s sketch/joke


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: BobL
Date: 27 Nov 20 - 02:08 AM

Lamppost reasoning = searching for your keys under the lamppost rather than wherever you dropped them, it'll be easier to see them.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Nov 20 - 03:00 PM

Lamppost reasoning may be related to staircase wit.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: leeneia
Date: 26 Nov 20 - 12:34 PM

I don't know about lamp-post reasoning, but I came across a new word yesterday: yeet.

I was watching a video about a fire, and in it an adult threw a small child out a window to the arms of a firefighter on the ground. Someone commented that it was so amazing to see someone yeet that child.

So I asked Google to define yeet, and I learned that it has two unrelated definitions. One is to yell out praise, as at a sports event, and the other is to throw something away, literally throw or toss it, not just discard it. Apparently the commenter had picked up the idea that yeet = throw.

It's not often that I come across a non-technical word that 100% new to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Nov 20 - 12:08 PM

Just came across lamppost reasoning on this page Dark Energy May Be Incompatible With String Theory

The web is not very helpful in defining the phrase. So is it?

1) Pissing on the idea by a dog with a bone?
2) Illuminating just a small patch of the area of interest?
3) Something you bump into because you are blinkered?
4) All of the above?


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Senoufou
Date: 19 Nov 20 - 03:56 AM

'ident' (as in the first part of the word 'identity'). I think it means something on TV which identifies the next programme, such as a logo, short film or music. But I may be wrong. It's such a silly word I couldn't be too bothered about researching it.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Jos
Date: 18 Nov 20 - 01:54 PM

The term 'gaslighting' in that sense comes from a play - Gaslight - from 1938, released as a film in the 1940s.
Does that count as 'new'?


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: leeneia
Date: 18 Nov 20 - 01:22 PM

Here's a new word: gaslighting. To gaslight a person is to say that their arguments are invalid because the person has something wrong with their mind, when in fact there is nothing wrong with the person's mind.

Example:

I wish you wouldn't call me offensive names.
You're just being defensive.
I am not being defensive!
And now you're over-reacting. Why are you so manic?

Gaslighting is a very nasty habit.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Nov 20 - 06:21 PM

Wankety as in winkety wankety wokies!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 Nov 20 - 05:26 PM

Smize: smiling so that your eyes show it as your mouth is behind a mask.

Zee: see, but on Zoom.

I made up that last one.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Jos
Date: 16 Nov 20 - 08:20 AM

That's one of the disadvantages of radio - 'sortition' sounds the same as 'sortician'. Or even 'sore Titian'.
In the same way that 'attacks on' sounds the same as 'a tax on', which has caught me out more than once.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Nov 20 - 08:05 AM

Phonetic mistake. Goggle/Yapoo did not find the word so I did my best, and I failed!

Sortition - Brett Hennig's spelling. (He is the sortician I guess)


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