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BS: new words / usage

Mr Red 05 Nov 20 - 06:53 PM
DaveRo 06 Nov 20 - 03:06 AM
The Sandman 06 Nov 20 - 06:39 AM
leeneia 06 Nov 20 - 09:55 AM
leeneia 06 Nov 20 - 10:01 AM
Donuel 06 Nov 20 - 11:00 AM
Senoufou 06 Nov 20 - 11:28 AM
Mrrzy 06 Nov 20 - 12:00 PM
meself 06 Nov 20 - 12:44 PM
Manitas_at_home 06 Nov 20 - 02:14 PM
meself 06 Nov 20 - 02:15 PM
The Sandman 06 Nov 20 - 02:20 PM
Mrrzy 06 Nov 20 - 06:07 PM
meself 06 Nov 20 - 09:39 PM
JennieG 06 Nov 20 - 11:35 PM
Donuel 07 Nov 20 - 07:13 AM
Lighter 07 Nov 20 - 08:04 AM
leeneia 07 Nov 20 - 04:34 PM
meself 07 Nov 20 - 08:05 PM
Thompson 08 Nov 20 - 04:43 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Nov 20 - 05:32 AM
Mo the caller 08 Nov 20 - 05:38 AM
Mo the caller 08 Nov 20 - 05:45 AM
Bonzo3legs 08 Nov 20 - 05:52 AM
robomatic 08 Nov 20 - 10:21 PM
Jos 09 Nov 20 - 02:40 AM
DaveRo 09 Nov 20 - 03:32 AM
Jos 09 Nov 20 - 04:07 AM
DaveRo 09 Nov 20 - 04:14 AM
Mrrzy 09 Nov 20 - 11:33 AM
leeneia 09 Nov 20 - 11:43 AM
meself 09 Nov 20 - 12:44 PM
leeneia 11 Nov 20 - 11:13 AM
Mr Red 12 Nov 20 - 04:28 AM
Gibb Sahib 13 Nov 20 - 01:19 AM
Mrrzy 13 Nov 20 - 09:30 AM
Mr Red 13 Nov 20 - 02:11 PM
The Sandman 13 Nov 20 - 02:20 PM
meself 13 Nov 20 - 03:10 PM
robomatic 13 Nov 20 - 03:30 PM
Gibb Sahib 13 Nov 20 - 04:42 PM
meself 13 Nov 20 - 04:53 PM
Gibb Sahib 14 Nov 20 - 04:33 AM
Jos 14 Nov 20 - 04:04 PM
robomatic 14 Nov 20 - 04:13 PM
Joe_F 14 Nov 20 - 06:11 PM
meself 15 Nov 20 - 10:44 AM
Jos 15 Nov 20 - 11:13 AM
Mr Red 16 Nov 20 - 07:44 AM
Jos 16 Nov 20 - 07:47 AM
Mr Red 16 Nov 20 - 08:05 AM
Jos 16 Nov 20 - 08:20 AM
Mrrzy 17 Nov 20 - 05:26 PM
Bonzo3legs 17 Nov 20 - 06:21 PM
leeneia 18 Nov 20 - 01:22 PM
Jos 18 Nov 20 - 01:54 PM
Senoufou 19 Nov 20 - 03:56 AM
Mr Red 26 Nov 20 - 12:08 PM
leeneia 26 Nov 20 - 12:34 PM
Mrrzy 26 Nov 20 - 03:00 PM
BobL 27 Nov 20 - 02:08 AM
Mr Red 27 Nov 20 - 03:25 AM
Mr Red 27 Nov 20 - 03:28 AM
ketchdana 27 Nov 20 - 03:52 AM
meself 27 Nov 20 - 10:47 AM
Charmion 27 Nov 20 - 11:09 AM
Mrrzy 27 Nov 20 - 11:42 AM
Jos 27 Nov 20 - 12:00 PM
Charmion 27 Nov 20 - 04:49 PM
McGrath of Harlow 28 Nov 20 - 04:36 AM
Mr Red 28 Nov 20 - 10:36 AM
meself 28 Nov 20 - 12:25 PM
leeneia 28 Nov 20 - 01:49 PM
Charmion 28 Nov 20 - 02:18 PM
Steve Shaw 28 Nov 20 - 06:52 PM
Doug Chadwick 28 Nov 20 - 09:57 PM
Tattie Bogle 29 Nov 20 - 06:34 PM
Mr Red 30 Nov 20 - 02:21 AM
Mrrzy 30 Nov 20 - 01:56 PM
Donuel 30 Nov 20 - 02:15 PM
Lighter 30 Nov 20 - 07:45 PM
Doug Chadwick 01 Dec 20 - 05:24 AM
Mrrzy 01 Dec 20 - 09:57 AM
Doug Chadwick 01 Dec 20 - 12:14 PM
Joe_F 01 Dec 20 - 09:07 PM
Donuel 02 Dec 20 - 07:29 PM
Mr Red 03 Dec 20 - 03:17 AM
Lighter 03 Dec 20 - 07:31 AM
Mr Red 04 Dec 20 - 07:51 AM
gillymor 04 Dec 20 - 08:38 AM
Mrrzy 05 Dec 20 - 02:01 PM
The Man from UNCOOL 06 Dec 20 - 09:30 PM
Lighter 07 Dec 20 - 10:03 AM
Donuel 07 Dec 20 - 10:41 AM
robomatic 07 Dec 20 - 10:04 PM
Lighter 08 Dec 20 - 08:34 AM
Raedwulf 08 Dec 20 - 09:36 AM
robomatic 08 Dec 20 - 10:37 AM
Lighter 08 Dec 20 - 06:19 PM
Donuel 09 Dec 20 - 09:35 PM
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Subject: BS: new words / usage
From: Mr Red
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 06:53 PM

OK - I haven't bothered to find out what woke currently means - it won't next year anyway.
BUT
I came across a word that was used in connection with the Tesla truck. They are using them to deliver cars & transport between their Almeda County and Nevada factories. Using their own product as in-house testing & design shakedown.

That process was described as dogfooding

Any other new word/usages I should "get my teeth into"?


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: DaveRo
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 03:06 AM

It's normally applied to new software. The developers show confidence in their new product by actually using it - "eating their own dogfood". Often their management tells them to - and not use (or be seen to use) a competitor's product.

I first heard it years ago when Mozilla employees - Mozilla having been created out of Netscape - declared that their new browser, which was just called 'Mozilla' in those days, was good enough for 'dogfooding'.

An infelicitous word IMO. The must be a better one.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 06:39 AM

theivery, means behaving like a spoiled child


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: leeneia
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 09:55 AM

I recently came across "twote", which means "wrote it on Twitter." I like it.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: leeneia
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 10:01 AM

Mansplaining.

I was posting a recipe for pork roast here, and I said that I like to microwave the meat on low power to kill germs and warm it up. A male Mudcatter came on and told me that cooking the meat would kill germs.

As if after 50 years of cooking and reading about cooking I wouldn't know that. That's mansplaining.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 11:00 AM

Its clear to see throughout history that
mankind loves the lie.
Warlords, religion and politicians
all use the childs cry
to get what they want although they're not hurt
for food or love denied.

We lie to ourself with truth on the shelf
for war, love and gain.
The lie is the path for the psychopath
or a King to reign.
Belief is a knife that can stab your heart.
So take care if you wish to remain.

Trump is in a different league
he cannot say defeat
Instead he says a different phrase
and calls it winning fatigue


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 11:28 AM

leeneia, that reminds me of 'manspreading', when a chap sits on a train with his legs wide apart, and his knees intruding on the space next to him.
I think texting has given rise to some quite funny words. 'Totes' for example (totally) and 'soz' (sorry). My nieces keep me a little more up-to-date with these new usages.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 12:00 PM

I signed up for some homecoming things online at my undergrad institution, including the opening night's Tufts Pride thing which I thought would be about being proud of Tufts. But noooooo. Pride *at* Tufts. Gay pride. It was an LGBTQ thing but I didn't know pride *only* referred to that. I felt all curmudgeony the way I am sure people did about gay not meaning happy any more.
The fact that I don't think you should claim pride in things you did not *accomplish* is an aside.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: meself
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 12:44 PM

"grock" - seems to mean "understand"

"simp" - seems to mean "simpleton" - how it suddenly became a favoured internet insult, after "simpleton" had dropped out of common parlance, I don't know - besides, isn't it a gift to be simple?

You really have to stay on your toes if you want to keep up with the in-crowd on the 'net.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 02:14 PM

Simp is short for superintelligent chimp. I think it was from Isaac Asimov.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: meself
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 02:15 PM

Oh. Boy, do I feel like a simp now ... !


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 02:20 PM

trump means to fart, or let off wind, so have we been watxhing a fart in a circus


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 06:07 PM

Grok. No C. To comprehend fully. Stranger in a Strange Land, Heinlein.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: meself
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 09:39 PM

Stranger in a Strange Land? That goes 'way back - but 'grok' seems to have become (somewhat) popular only fairly recently ... no doubt there's a reason .....


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: JennieG
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 11:35 PM

Hack.

Since when did a simple 'handy hint' become a 'hack'?


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 07:13 AM

defund was suppose to mean reform and it was a disaster for democrats to repeat the phrase defund police.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Lighter
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 08:04 AM

"Simp" (from "simpleton") was popular in America in the '20s and '30s but never went away completely. I guess it's making a comeback.

"Grok," from Heinlein's 1961 novel, had something of a vogue in the flower-child '60s, and likewise has never gone away.

"Woke," by the way, now means "politically awakened or enlightened to matters like racism, inequality, oppression, etc."


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: leeneia
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 04:34 PM

'Woke', coming from 'awakened', makes sense. 'Grok' is a more-than-usually primitive caveman in the BC cartoon, and I think that is a good use for a word that sounds like that.

My mother used 'simp' to refer to a weak, cringing woman. I think it came from 'simper.'


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: meself
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 08:05 PM

"relatable"


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Thompson
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 04:43 AM

Grok meams more than understand. It means to share understanding with something or someone at a deep level, so that it becomes part of you.
I'm a bit hazy on the current crop of woke and stan and terf and so on, so just stand quietly back and let them waft by until they join the discourse in a deep enough way that I can understand them. Doubt I'll ever grok them, though.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 05:32 AM

Just have been you g for at least 4 years but I only came across it yesterday

Trumpanzee

:-D


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mo the caller
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 05:38 AM

Good thread.
"From: Mrrzy - PM
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 12:00 PM

...I didn't know pride *only* referred to that. I felt all curmudgeony the way I am sure people did about gay not meaning happy any more."

I am beginning to feel the same way about the use of the rainbow - though I can see the logic as representing a spectrum.
I remember when 'gay' started being used that way - I had a friend called Gay, doubt if you'd abbreviate it like that now

"From: meself - PM
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 12:44 PM

"grock" - seems to mean "understand"
That one probably comes from a Heinlien SF novel about a Martian. I think it was used in that to mean a deep understanding and empathy with someone, though the Martian had difficulty explaining it.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mo the caller
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 05:45 AM

Gay had other meanings as well as happy even before the 60s.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 05:52 AM

Winkie wankie wokies!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 10:21 PM

"grok" was a word used by the man who'd been raised on Mars. I'm not going back to Heinlein to find out if the word was a Martian word. It meant to comprehend far more deeply than normal use of English words (otherwise we'd use those normal words). One of the things the Martian lad wanted to understand was humor.

The book came out in the 60s. I've used the word on occasion, but not occasionally.

I thought I invented a word while dog walking (and I mean really walking a real dog) three days ago. The words was "tentativity" referring to the habit of being tentative or talking in that manner. I took credit for inventing it, but on the BBC website I saw the word: "incentivity" so I reckon probably my word is not 'my' word.

My word.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Jos
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 02:40 AM

When did "gifted" start to mean given away instead of talented?


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: DaveRo
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 03:32 AM

verb "to gift":

"Since the 1990s the word has surged in popularity, perhaps in part because of a well-known Seinfeld episode concerning “regifting” and “degifting.” according to Merriam Webster.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Jos
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 04:07 AM

I just looked up "Seineld" and apparently it's an American sitcom.
That explains why it has completely passed me by.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: DaveRo
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 04:14 AM

Here in the UK - and maybe in the US too - 'gift' has a legal meaning. I'd only heard the verb 'to gift' used in that sense, for example the sum of money you can gift to your children each year so that it does not incur inheritance tax at your death.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 11:33 AM

Gift should be a noun. Ask should be a verb.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: leeneia
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 11:43 AM

Even worse, "my bad." Sounds like babytalk.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: meself
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 12:44 PM

As I understand it, it IS baby talk - that's supposed to be funny.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: leeneia
Date: 11 Nov 20 - 11:13 AM

Oh.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mr Red
Date: 12 Nov 20 - 04:28 AM

isn't it a gift to be simple

Only if you are "Lord of the Dance"

(reference Shaker hymn & Sydney Carter lyrics)


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 13 Nov 20 - 01:19 AM

That's not what "simp" means, ya boomers!


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Nov 20 - 09:30 AM

I thought simp was simpleton.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mr Red
Date: 13 Nov 20 - 02:11 PM

Just heard on on a satirical BBC radio prog.-- Topdressing - just wearing presentable cloths on the visible parts on Zoom.

Come to think of it - dogfooding should have been obvious to me!
More than 30 years ago a salesman told me that Dogfood salesmen (we didn't have persons in those days), they were trained to open a can of dogfood in front of their customers and eat some. To prove how wholesome it was. These were premier brands that used horsemeat. 'Tis indeed a wonder they were not called chevaliers!


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Nov 20 - 02:20 PM

topdressing ,i always thought it was a gardening term


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: meself
Date: 13 Nov 20 - 03:10 PM

Uh, Gibb - that wasn't a very helpful comment ... would you care to elaborate?


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: robomatic
Date: 13 Nov 20 - 03:30 PM

I've found myself using the term "true that". As a term of agreement. I wonder if my unconscious is trying to be cool. I don't think it's working.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 13 Nov 20 - 04:42 PM

>Uh, Gibb - that wasn't a very helpful comment ... would you care to elaborate?

"Simp" is a derogatory term you call someone (typically a male) who you think inappropriately, obsessively, PATHETICALLY ...supports, sucks up to, fawns over, white-knights ... someone (typically a female).

What that someone is doing can also be called "to simp" (noun changed to verb). The object of the simp's attention is often assumed to be looking for attention -- e.g. a female posting a photo of her butt or being overly cutesy -- and the simp is considered especially pathetic for falling into the trap of giving it. Can be used ironically (e.g. call yourself a simp) and metaphorically (e.g. die hard Trump supporters as simps for Trump).

I'd guess it's related to sympathetic, not simpleton.

That sounds so silly to define in a formal way, and now you know why I didn't feel like doing it.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: meself
Date: 13 Nov 20 - 04:53 PM

Now I know ... ! Much appreciated, though - now I know what all those young whippersnappers have been mocking me about ......


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 14 Nov 20 - 04:33 AM

Those darn Zoomers!

Usually I'm irritated by people who are irritated by language, but I'll have to be irritated with myself for being irritated by one recent word/phrase:

"no kapp"

It means "I'm telling the truth / being sincere."

Now, HOW it comes to mean that is the thing that bugs me so much that I refuse to (re)investigate and explain it. Just know that it's mad "sus" , not at all "lit" and sketch "af."

"Sorry not sorry" for being "extra," bruh.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Jos
Date: 14 Nov 20 - 04:04 PM

When did people start saying "So fun" instead of "Such fun" or "So much fun"?


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: robomatic
Date: 14 Nov 20 - 04:13 PM

One thing that drove me crazy but I'm becoming master of my domain: The use of the phrase "Democrat Party" instead of "Democratic Party". I believe this was begun plus or minus ten years ago purposely to offend and insult. I used to notice this the way you notice that someone has peed on a downtown wall during the night. Now I just try to develop a mental image of the speaker as a MAGA hat wearing creep. But I think it has crept into the non-partisan blogosphere. I got into an argument over the issue once in a Starbucks....


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Joe_F
Date: 14 Nov 20 - 06:11 PM

robomatic: It was much discussed in 1954, to my recollection.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: meself
Date: 15 Nov 20 - 10:44 AM

"creative" - as a person who is involved in creative endeavours. I would have trouble describing myself or anyone else as "a creative", but no doubt I'm hopelessly behind the times ....


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Jos
Date: 15 Nov 20 - 11:13 AM

The book shelves in charity shops are often full of books from the 1970s with covers in shades of brown, cream and orange, and titles like "Creative Crafts", "Creative Crochet", "Creative Christmas Decorations", "Creative Cookery" and so on.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Nov 20 - 07:44 AM

I came across one today - sortician - a person who has been randomly selected

as in sortician assembly - heard on a BBC radio prog - the TED radio hour


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Jos
Date: 16 Nov 20 - 07:47 AM

I would have thought a "sortician" was the person who did the sorting and selecting, maybe with the person selected being a "sortee".


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Nov 20 - 08:05 AM

Phonetic mistake. Goggle/Yapoo did not find the word so I did my best, and I failed!

Sortition - Brett Hennig's spelling. (He is the sortician I guess)


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Jos
Date: 16 Nov 20 - 08:20 AM

That's one of the disadvantages of radio - 'sortition' sounds the same as 'sortician'. Or even 'sore Titian'.
In the same way that 'attacks on' sounds the same as 'a tax on', which has caught me out more than once.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 Nov 20 - 05:26 PM

Smize: smiling so that your eyes show it as your mouth is behind a mask.

Zee: see, but on Zoom.

I made up that last one.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Nov 20 - 06:21 PM

Wankety as in winkety wankety wokies!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: leeneia
Date: 18 Nov 20 - 01:22 PM

Here's a new word: gaslighting. To gaslight a person is to say that their arguments are invalid because the person has something wrong with their mind, when in fact there is nothing wrong with the person's mind.

Example:

I wish you wouldn't call me offensive names.
You're just being defensive.
I am not being defensive!
And now you're over-reacting. Why are you so manic?

Gaslighting is a very nasty habit.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Jos
Date: 18 Nov 20 - 01:54 PM

The term 'gaslighting' in that sense comes from a play - Gaslight - from 1938, released as a film in the 1940s.
Does that count as 'new'?


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Senoufou
Date: 19 Nov 20 - 03:56 AM

'ident' (as in the first part of the word 'identity'). I think it means something on TV which identifies the next programme, such as a logo, short film or music. But I may be wrong. It's such a silly word I couldn't be too bothered about researching it.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Nov 20 - 12:08 PM

Just came across lamppost reasoning on this page Dark Energy May Be Incompatible With String Theory

The web is not very helpful in defining the phrase. So is it?

1) Pissing on the idea by a dog with a bone?
2) Illuminating just a small patch of the area of interest?
3) Something you bump into because you are blinkered?
4) All of the above?


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: leeneia
Date: 26 Nov 20 - 12:34 PM

I don't know about lamp-post reasoning, but I came across a new word yesterday: yeet.

I was watching a video about a fire, and in it an adult threw a small child out a window to the arms of a firefighter on the ground. Someone commented that it was so amazing to see someone yeet that child.

So I asked Google to define yeet, and I learned that it has two unrelated definitions. One is to yell out praise, as at a sports event, and the other is to throw something away, literally throw or toss it, not just discard it. Apparently the commenter had picked up the idea that yeet = throw.

It's not often that I come across a non-technical word that 100% new to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Nov 20 - 03:00 PM

Lamppost reasoning may be related to staircase wit.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: BobL
Date: 27 Nov 20 - 02:08 AM

Lamppost reasoning = searching for your keys under the lamppost rather than wherever you dropped them, it'll be easier to see them.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mr Red
Date: 27 Nov 20 - 03:25 AM

Thanx, makes sense in the context. - I have heard that one as a 1930s sketch/joke


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mr Red
Date: 27 Nov 20 - 03:28 AM

Staircase Wit


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: ketchdana
Date: 27 Nov 20 - 03:52 AM

Late one night:
"Why are you crawling around under the street light?"
"Lost my keys."
"Here, on the corner?"
"No, back there 'bout half a block."
"So why are you looking here?"
"The light is better here."

Lamppost reasoning / "drunkard's search" -- maybe it means (re)searching where it's easier, or more convenient, or funding is available, or it's the only background info you know, or the light is better... rather than where the answer lies.
Reference: the cartoon in another version of what I think is the one you (Mr Red) linked to.

https://indico.nikhef.nl/event/1815/contribution/1/material/slides/0.pdf
(That cartoon looks a lot like the style of mudcatter jfweldon. Jus'sayin')


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: meself
Date: 27 Nov 20 - 10:47 AM

So 'staircase wit' is what Edith Wharton termed, 'the belated eloquence of the inarticulate'.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Charmion
Date: 27 Nov 20 - 11:09 AM

This year's most persistent new usage, at least in my corner of reality, is the sudden appearance of "gift", previously a noun, where I expect to see its verb version "give". I was unaware of it in normal speech until a few months ago, when I complimented a restaurant server on her pearl necklace and she replied, "Why thank you! My mother gifted it to me."

Why "gifted"? Why not "gave"?

A cursory prowl through Google results tells me that the form dates back to the 17th century, but I can honestly say that I have never heard anyone actually say it until this year. And suddenly it's all over advertising copy; it's as if "give" in all its tenses has left the building.

Colour me irked.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Nov 20 - 11:42 AM

Ooh I *like* that. Belated and inarticulate is my normal state of being.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Jos
Date: 27 Nov 20 - 12:00 PM

Charmion, we have discussed 'gift' recently.

Scroll down to 9 November and you will find my post followed by four further comments.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Charmion
Date: 27 Nov 20 - 04:49 PM

Sorry to chew old cabbage, Jos.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 04:36 AM

Why is there anything insulting about "Democrat Party" rather than "Democratic Party"? It sounds a reasonable term, since its members are Democrats. What's the difference that matters?


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mr Red
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 10:36 AM

As the French say - esprit de l'escalier = "wit of the staircase"

Imagine if you will:

someone comes up with a witicism

Oscar Wilde says "My, I wish oid sed thaaaat"

James McNeil Whistler says "Oh you will, Oscar, YOU will".


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: meself
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 12:25 PM

"What's the difference ... " I was wondering about that, too. The only interpretation I can figure out is that it may imply something like, "You may call yourself 'Democrats' - but you are not democratic." (Not that Republicans are big on democracy; in fact, they have taken to insisting that the US "is not a democracy; it's a republic!", as a refutation to that charge.)


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: leeneia
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 01:49 PM

Hi, Charmion. I used to work in a law office, and lawyers were using 'gift' as a verb years ago, I think because in their minds gifts were linked to gift taxes.

When lawyers talk of gifts, they aren't talking about Christmas presents, they are talking about the $20,000 you can give somebody per year without triggering tax for yourself. (This is under U.S. law.)

As you say, it's only recently that non-lawyers started using gift as a verb. I think it's clumsy.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Charmion
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 02:18 PM

Leeneia, if we all aspired to talk like lawyers, the world would be even more infuriating than it is already.

Canadian lawyers never use “give” when they can say (or write) “provide”. Aaaagh!


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 06:52 PM

If you call someone a democrat (in the context we're discussing) you are isolating them as an entity of one person. If you say that someone is a member of the Democrat(ic) party you are implying that they're in unity with thousands of others. Millions, even. It's spin, and it's to do with divide and rule. Call it out every time.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 09:57 PM

Gifting is not the same as giving except in one specific circumstance.


Someone could give me something in exchange for money - i.e. I buy it from them;

They could give me something that I already own - e.g. a coat that I left for safe keeping;

They might give me a parcel to deliver to someone else;

I might ask someone to give me something because I am too lazy to get up and get it for myself;

They might give me something on loan, expecting me to return it after a specified time.


None of these would involve the transfer of ownership, expecting nothing in return.

"To gift" is simply shorthand for "to give as a gift".

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 29 Nov 20 - 06:34 PM

Well that’s fairly similar, but not always the same as, donate. And now sometimes you see “donators” instead of “donors “ (“donators “ even came up in predictive text there!)


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mr Red
Date: 30 Nov 20 - 02:21 AM

I use the English (English) lexicon for FireFox, but it can't spell a load of things and tries to tell me I am wrong. Because it uses a common dictionary and tries to attend to differences. And fails more than it gets it write (sic).


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 Nov 20 - 01:56 PM

If you bought it they did not give it to you at all, they sold it to you. "Give in exchange for" is an oxymoron.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Nov 20 - 02:15 PM

Steve, it goes further than that. For over 200 years Drmocrats belonged to the Democratic Party. Around the time of Republican Gingrich the conservatives changed the name of the Democratic party and have ever since refered to it as the Democrat party.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Lighter
Date: 30 Nov 20 - 07:45 PM

Joe McCarthy was calling it the "Democrat party" around 1950.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 01 Dec 20 - 05:24 AM

If you bought it they did not give it to you at all, they sold it to you. "Give in exchange for" is an oxymoron.

I agree Mrrzy and I acknowledged that when I included i.e. I buy it from them;. "Give in exchange for" was a definition. If the exchange had been for another item, rather than money, the term would have been "swap".

The point is, there are verbs such as to sell, to swap, to lend, etc., which concisely explain under what condition things are given. It doesn't seem unreasonable that there should be a verb for the condition of "give as a gift".

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Dec 20 - 09:57 AM

I think that verb is Give, no?


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 01 Dec 20 - 12:14 PM

I think that verb is Give, no?

To gift


DC


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Joe_F
Date: 01 Dec 20 - 09:07 PM

Wilson Follett, in _Modern American Usage_ (1966), quotes "Gift him with a shoe on Father's Day" and comments "unlucky, one-legged, indirect object of his children's love!".


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 07:29 PM

There is always the trick of turning someone's proper name into a verb


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mr Red
Date: 03 Dec 20 - 03:17 AM

is Trump a proper name? It certainly is a verb, and an (sic) homonym.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Dec 20 - 07:31 AM

What's amazing is that the British word hasn't caught on here in Trump Country.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mr Red
Date: 04 Dec 20 - 07:51 AM

It certainly has left an almighty stink!


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: gillymor
Date: 04 Dec 20 - 08:38 AM

And it still is-
Rudy trumping in court


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Dec 20 - 02:01 PM

Indirect object of love! I steal.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: The Man from UNCOOL
Date: 06 Dec 20 - 09:30 PM

Lighter, the OED records the first usage in 1348. It's hardly current! I used the reference in a song about DJT, and no-one got it. I heard Jeremy Hardy point it out.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Lighter
Date: 07 Dec 20 - 10:03 AM

Interesting.

The online OED gives a single example of the noun, from 1903.

I've never heard it used in the U.S. or read it anywhere.

Same goes for the corresponding verb, which OED surprisingly dates from "c1425." Their latest citation is from 1798.

FWIW, I don't see a citation from 1348, though Chaucer used the sense "to trumpet or proclaim" in 1384.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Dec 20 - 10:41 AM

A golfer played the 17th hole with a score of 15. For a time pulling a Norman was equivalent to an epic fail. Greg Norman is lucky to have outlived the distinction.

Perhaps one could pull a Rudy, who currently is carrying the Covid infection. But who else could ever lose 32 lawsuits in 3 weeks?


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Dec 20 - 10:04 PM

I want to go on record endorsing Donuel's explanation of Democrat Party as an insulting reference to the Democratic party. It's like being called "Tony" when you and your friends are used to calling you
"Anthony". It's a slight because it is perceived as such. Maybe you can rise above it, maybe you should rise above it, but the perception is there.

It's a clever way to be mean and get under thin skins.

I didn't know the ploy went back to McCarthy in the 50s.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Lighter
Date: 08 Dec 20 - 08:34 AM

It's a little more complicated than that. The Democratic Party was founded around 1828 under that name, but in early use many people apparently used "Democrat party" as well, without prejudice.

Kalamazoo Gazette (Sept. 1, 1838), p.2:

"Resolved, that the allegation so often made and repeated by the Federal Press that the Democrat Party is opposed to the credit system, and to all Banks, and in favor of an exclusively metalic [sic] currency is utterly false."


It only became an obvious slight when the Democrats themselves quit using it, and the Republicans started using it all the time.

The invidious imputation may be that a "Democratic" party stands for democracy, but a "Democrat" party is just made up of people who call themselves small-d democrats.

If I had to guess, I'd guess that the Republicans began saying "Democrat Party" in earnest during the Depression, when they absolutely despised Franklin Roosevelt, but it would be only a guess.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Raedwulf
Date: 08 Dec 20 - 09:36 AM

On Friday, I came up with Slain - Precipitation when it's at the point where you can't tell whether it's sleet or rain. You could call it Reet of course. But that would be silly! ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Dec 20 - 10:37 AM

Thank you Lighter. I enjoyed reading your post. It was quite illuminating!


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Lighter
Date: 08 Dec 20 - 06:19 PM

You're quite welcome.


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Subject: RE: BS: new words / usage
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Dec 20 - 09:35 PM

My lifespan is so short and the republicans so staunchly arrogant imo, I always took the change from common reference to a democratic party to be an insult like 'card carrying' liberals - since they were referring to communists. Republicans today are less democratic than ever.

The current return to another phase and form of McCarthyism has turned America against itself largely with the help of the internet. No longer will a single Robert R Murrow lead from a broadcast medium up a path to the truth.


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