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BS: What do you think cults have in common?

Bill D 15 Sep 20 - 10:09 PM
keberoxu 15 Sep 20 - 09:51 PM
Donuel 15 Sep 20 - 07:27 AM
Donuel 15 Sep 20 - 07:00 AM
Steve Shaw 12 Sep 20 - 08:07 PM
Donuel 10 Sep 20 - 06:17 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Sep 20 - 09:09 PM
Donuel 09 Sep 20 - 07:29 PM
Donuel 07 Sep 20 - 11:06 PM
Donuel 07 Sep 20 - 10:44 PM
Bill D 07 Sep 20 - 09:02 PM
Bill D 07 Sep 20 - 08:21 PM
Jack Campin 07 Sep 20 - 08:10 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Sep 20 - 07:14 PM
Stilly River Sage 07 Sep 20 - 12:09 PM
Donuel 07 Sep 20 - 08:04 AM
Mysha 06 Sep 20 - 08:33 PM
Donuel 06 Sep 20 - 06:10 PM
Steve Shaw 06 Sep 20 - 10:11 AM
Steve Shaw 06 Sep 20 - 10:04 AM
Steve Shaw 06 Sep 20 - 10:03 AM
Mysha 06 Sep 20 - 10:02 AM
Donuel 06 Sep 20 - 08:08 AM
Donuel 06 Sep 20 - 07:34 AM
The Sandman 06 Sep 20 - 02:08 AM
The Sandman 06 Sep 20 - 01:25 AM
Jack Campin 05 Sep 20 - 08:12 PM
Steve Shaw 05 Sep 20 - 05:54 PM
Mrrzy 05 Sep 20 - 05:41 PM
Donuel 05 Sep 20 - 05:18 PM
Jack Campin 05 Sep 20 - 04:58 PM
The Sandman 05 Sep 20 - 04:47 PM
Steve Shaw 05 Sep 20 - 03:15 PM
Donuel 05 Sep 20 - 03:08 PM
Jeri 05 Sep 20 - 12:50 PM
Stilly River Sage 05 Sep 20 - 12:02 PM
Mrrzy 05 Sep 20 - 11:49 AM
Donuel 05 Sep 20 - 11:42 AM
Stilly River Sage 05 Sep 20 - 11:15 AM
Steve Shaw 05 Sep 20 - 10:06 AM
Jack Campin 05 Sep 20 - 10:01 AM
Donuel 05 Sep 20 - 07:39 AM
The Sandman 05 Sep 20 - 06:48 AM
Steve Shaw 05 Sep 20 - 06:14 AM
The Sandman 05 Sep 20 - 05:55 AM
Jack Campin 05 Sep 20 - 05:30 AM
Steve Shaw 05 Sep 20 - 05:27 AM
Donuel 05 Sep 20 - 04:39 AM
The Sandman 05 Sep 20 - 02:13 AM
Jeri 04 Sep 20 - 09:57 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Sep 20 - 10:09 PM

Some people just 'need' ...or act like it is a need.. to have a simple, easy to quote and direct answer to the issues they see... just as they do about God(s) and race and what is safe to do and eat.
   Cults not only give direct answers, they institute ways to enforce adherence to the answers they provide. It seems no odd idea is so weird that it won't appeal to some people if it is done cleverly.

It never stops..


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: keberoxu
Date: 15 Sep 20 - 09:51 PM

I don't have, or watch, television in the residence
where I am living presently.
But the paper is delivered, and in today's
New York Times
there was a review of "The Vow,"
a multi-episode documentary series on this dreadful "Nxivm" thing
(that was the official spelling).
One of its top, er, manipulators is now in prison.

Did anyone else read the NYT review -- or, better,
is anybody watching this thing on prime-time television?
The review observes that the cult leader appears utterly ludicrous,
and yet attracted all these people, and all this money,
and got away with heinous things.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Sep 20 - 07:27 AM

My enemy is the -DENIAL- that resides in people that ignore the real issues in the lives they lead and think they must also insist that others must live up to ... They insist upon a patriarchy, mysogeny, super capitalism, greed, killing Democracy, racism and murder, colonialism, anti science and deny that they are in the grip of antiquated ideas that are not their own spirit.

We are wired for denial, are creatures of habit and we are on a hair trigger for fight or flight. We all need an eduction how cults use these traits to their advantage so we have a defense against their tactics/dark arts.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Sep 20 - 07:00 AM

The unusual events in my life are indeed not the point.
The fact that people are in denial about what is actually happening be it strategically deliberate or by crowd phenomena, is the main issue.

The cult rumors that the state of Texas was under attack by UN troops or that antifascists have set fire to the entire West are proof of denial of proof, denial of facts and denial of truth on a massive scale.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Sep 20 - 08:07 PM

Bullshit, as ever.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Sep 20 - 06:17 AM

More like harrassed. I bet investigations cost them more than I made.
If the action adventure side of trying to help is not funny you can watch Fawlty Towers. I know full well that to stand out in your field, pick a small field.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Sep 20 - 09:09 PM

Wow. Bet you feel really important.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Sep 20 - 07:29 PM

To this day I am not sure how I feel about being investigated for espionage. I was not accused or indicted so there was no injustice.
Because of a word of mouth approval of my anxiety session for one of of 4 scientists in an X ray laser lab working on Reagan's Star Wars project, suspicions were aroused. After an accident with the laser they were all pretty upset and eventually I saw all four. The last one was wired.
Then there was the proposterous set ups attempted by local authorities.
I hope actual cults are investigted as vigorously and often as I but the cloak of being a religion might put that in a different light.
The IRS is often used politically. Scientology was approved as a tax free religion.
WTF


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Sep 20 - 11:06 PM

The self discovery of who the real bully is - took time and didn't seem to have a shortcut.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Sep 20 - 10:44 PM

Gurdjieff comes to mind and was more of a philosopher, musician and time manager Bill. Too bad Islam did not take up his Sufi path.
Instead of prayers around te clock there was just a moment to STOP and self reflect on what one is doing and why.

I tried my hand at deprograming cult members when I was young.
First it is almost impossible to find them. Leaving that in the hands of parents never worked and if you could find them it was really hard to gain initial cooperation. I found the path of least resistance was to invite them home to teach the cult ways, love and practices to thier family with a freedom the family must adopt. In a couple weeks things worked out as often as not.

The hold on cult members can be extreme. In California cult followers cut off thier own genitals prior to commiting suicide, to catch a free ride on a comet.
I see what Trump is doing with mask aversion in a pandemic is a Jim Jones type teaching that actually kills people.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Sep 20 - 09:02 PM

Ah.. stumbled onto the site. They practice what they say is a Sufi path with 'titles' like Alia and Ata’allah. It's all very friendly and welcoming:
"The Inayati Order is interspiritual, so the class incorporates readings from the world’s religions, discussions, and simple practices. Since Sufism is a mystical path, connecting us with the One Being which is our True Nature, we will aim to have direct experiences. We’ll use poetry, art, nature, movement and practices to experience this Life and cultivate greater insight into the nature of Being."

Is this a cult? *shrug*


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Sep 20 - 08:21 PM

Late to the party, but I do have a couple of thoughts.

1) There's a lot of 'equivocation' in some folks' descriptions. The word is useful because it is needed to distinguish some supposed religious groups from 'established religions'.
Some of the equivocation happens when it is applied to groups that are not actually based on religious ideas. ..i.e. Trumpites.

2)Several people here have pretty well listed the usual things about supposed religious groups that get so much negative press.. abuse, centering one one or two 'leaders', central control of finances...etc. It makes little sense to label religious groups of centuries standing..even smaller ones.. as cults unless they also fit the narrower definition(s). Can't think of a good example right now. Maybe those who pretend to be Druids would fit... *shrug*

3) One thing they DO have in common is that they don't have me as a member.

I do know (at least I did in college) a woman who began as an artist, switched to architecture,then to Permaculture... then joined a strange group in Texas which did vaguely Druid-like rituals based on 'harmony with the Earth' and titles like 'princess'. I can't find that link right now, but it feels like a cult without all the negative trimmings.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 Sep 20 - 08:10 PM

The development of the People's Temple doesn't fit the demoniac stereotype if you look a bit more into it. They were unquestionably a force for good during much of their time in the US, and it isn't at all clear to what extent they jumped or were pushed at the end. American capitalism doesn't like people setting up in competition to its ideology, and labelling those who want to do something different as "cults" or "dictatorships" is SOP. Hence what they did to Libya and are trying to do to Venezuela.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Sep 20 - 07:14 PM

Cheers, Maggie.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Sep 20 - 12:09 PM

So, I guess that's about it: A cult has people, a culture, and a minority viewpoint, and it's likely its members believe they are the chosen vessel. Other than that, it has non-members that brand them a cult. I guess that's about it.

No, it isn't. That's a naive approach to these these groups. There is a perceived or realized threat from true cults. Where do you think "drank the Koolaid" came from (though the Jonestown population actually drank "Flavoraid" before they all died)?

The David Koresh Branch Davidian Waco compound, the Jonestown (see my link above) murderous cult, they were lead by men who were charismatic, who were manipulative, who were destructive to their followers and others. There is a reason to fear cults.

We're not talking about old-fashioned hippie communes here, we're talking about the Charles Mansons of the world.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Sep 20 - 08:04 AM

Open ended questions enhance participation imo. Precise questions tend to be manipulative or become a disguised strident statement such as 'Why is Scientology a religion and not a cult?'

Hypnotic states of mind and how they are achieved is not the main issue. The message, post hypnotic suggestion or mind set shift is the most critical factor in shaping thought patterns and behavior.
Its like where you are going is more important than the vehicle that you take. Of course there is an old saying that 'it is the journey and not the destination' which is a language pet peeve to me. :^/


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Mysha
Date: 06 Sep 20 - 08:33 PM

Steve: No problem, I usually don't understand most slang here anyway, thus no damage done. Yes, I know that some cults are suspected of being wolves, but I didn't want to add that to the things cults have in common as leaders don't themselves have to be the venerated entity. Think of the cult of the Virgin Mother. Likewise, some cults tie there members tighter and others lighter; that's not all that different from local churches, convents, and the like. And members of major religion, just like those of cults, may see themselves as chosen vessels, as they are promised to become chosen at the end of their suffering. Thus this is likely true in all cases, just that the "Protectors of the Vision of the Blessed Robby" may stress it more to stand out from the main religion.

It's not that I don't agree with your ideas; it's just that the original question wasn't very precise and each is interpreting it in his own way.

Bye
Mysha


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Sep 20 - 06:10 PM

There are few things as boring as doing multiple relaxation hypnosis inductions every day. To my credit I only fell asleep in the process twice in twenty years. Add CIA stumble Klutzes and the mundane had a touch of action adventure. Perhaps I didn't return thier aptitude and employee questionaires quickly enough so to demonstrate their non complience with any laws they sent in a clean up crew I never saw.
In the process of of collecting the paperwork they disrupted my alert neighbors by ransacking my car and apartment. They had called the local police who didn't even interview me. The neighbors were milling about behind the row of early century manions that were converted to apartments but I didn't feel like explaining the implausible. They came back once more probably since they didn't find anything and after I got a glimpse when I suddenly felt hot and dizzy and hit the floor. I don't know what it was, but it felt like intense microwaves through the picture window. So much for excitement which is bound to arise in any occupation over time.
Overall it was like discovering as a kid that your parents are not the mature paragons of expertise you thought they were.
All the senseless investigations aside I could see society operates on invented plots and stories more than the truth.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Sep 20 - 10:11 AM

Well, Mysha, it's been said a couple of times that cults generally have charismatic, controlling leaders with vile motives. I'd add something like that to your list of characteristics. Incidentally, Christian religions often tell their members that they're nothing special. We're all miserable wretches, born with sin and in need of salvation. I didn't accept that, so I left. There were no repercussions to my butting out. It's not the same with a lot of what we might call cults.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Sep 20 - 10:04 AM

Er, that was aimed at Donuel.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Sep 20 - 10:03 AM

You don't half talk bollocks at times.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Mysha
Date: 06 Sep 20 - 10:02 AM

Hi,

Well, a question like that brings to mind the definition that One man's cult is another man's religion. (Hm, that makes me wonder whether any cults self-identify as "cult".)

But back to the question: What do we/I believe cults have in common? Well, I don't know what the cat herd believe, but for me: As far as I know, all cults have people. I think that would be multiple persons, and being more than one person it/they would have a shared culture. It need not be, originally, a culture that's exclusively theirs. Minne Simens of Wytmarsum was mentioned, and all he wanted was for Christians to behave more like, well: Christians. It was only later that differences from Christians in general came into existence.

On the other hand, while there are cultures that include Christian fanaticism in their definition of a cult, that's not a common trait of all cults. E.g., what would such a requirement say about people who belong to the other 70% of the world? But that does bring us back to "One man's cult is another man's religion.", in that the members of a cult represent a minority viewpoint. If they represented a majority, they would be considered normal, but they are considered a cult for not belonging to that majority. I'm be tempted to translate that as the members to believe they are the chosen vessel. Being culturally a Christian, I'm too close to be able to determine whether the culture of any cult tells its members that they are nothing special, or worse.

So, I guess that's about it: A cult has people, a culture, and a minority viewpoint, and it's likely its members believe they are the chosen vessel. Other than that, it has non-members that brand them a cult. I guess that's about it.

Bye
Mysha


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Sep 20 - 08:08 AM

btw the CIA had recently had their hypnosis specialist in murder pass away and were recruiting with 3 people who were all freaking idiots. I of course said no 3 times which resulted in CIA revenge.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Sep 20 - 07:34 AM

There are hundreds of different names and brands for hypnosis.
The nature of our brain and similar processes is at the heart of phenomena. Call it what you want but a 30% positive effect can pass for much more in a crowd.
The church calls it Mass and the Army calls it guided imagery.

My favorite Hypnosis Journal

It always comes down to the agenda for the practictioner and the independance for the subject. The Jesuit church saw my hypnsis practice as a threat and made their own hypnosis clinic that was not non religious. In fact I had no interest in dispariging church practices.

Even the CIA was interested in what I was up to for reasons that were positively evil at the time.

I see history itself as the triumph and failures of hypnotic practice, but thats to be expected.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Sep 20 - 02:08 AM

Flute is more apt than gombeen, my apologies Jac, thou are only dishonest intellectually


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Sep 20 - 01:25 AM

Jack. your attitude show you like to prejudge things. who on this forum knows about both and finds a resemblance to Cayce?.
you are ignorant [unknowing] about Bruno Groening yet you make judgement, you remind me of the sort of ignorant gombeen who would dismiss transendental meditation because Scientologists use auditing.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 Sep 20 - 08:12 PM

I don't read pasted Wiki stuff from people who are too lazy to write their own summary. Never heard of Groening, and if somebody who knows about them both finds resemblances to Cayce, I'll take their word for it.

Jacques Lacan seems to have had a similar success record to Caycean spiritualism in its therapeutic dimension. Psychoanalysis in general has had no great unambiguous triumphs, but Lacan seems to have built his towering monument of gibberish on top of a mountain of corpses. He totally failed to help anybody.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Sep 20 - 05:54 PM

The Guardian style guide forbids the use of euphemistic shortenings or asterisks. The paper would want to see you saying fuck, cunt or bastard only in limited contexts, direct quotes for example. F*ck, c*nt and b*st*rd are unacceptable. Either say it like it is or find another word. I rather like things such as b*ast*ard. Cheers for the honest confession, Mrrzy! :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Sep 20 - 05:41 PM

Lazy, in my case. One character is easier than 6.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Sep 20 - 05:18 PM

Thats interesting and fits into my hypnosis paradigm.

I erroneously thought people would have fun with recounting the bizarre extreme beliefs and actions by cults which are as prolific as they are diverse.

However Healing is a highly motivated purpose that has anticipation and expectation.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 Sep 20 - 04:58 PM

"G-d" is a Jewish thing.

Not wanting to spell out the name of Christ seems to predate the Gospels. Various monograms and the fish symbol (used instead of a written name) are the oldest of all Christian signs - even older than any form of the Cross.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Sep 20 - 04:47 PM

Bruno Groening has no connection whatsoever with Edgar Cayce.Itake exception to Jack Campin remarks which insinuate all spiritual healers try to cure Schizophrenia. Bruno Groening does not advocate any such thing
A PASTE FROM WIKI, the last line describes it as a commercial cult, as i understand its only commercial aspect is to cover expenses not to make a profit.no Gröning (May 30, 1906 in Danzig – January 26, 1959 in Paris) was a German mystic who gave lectures on faith healings. He was active in Germany in the 1940s and 1950s after World War II.
Contents

    1 Teachings
       1.1 Tuning in to divine energy
       1.2 Power of thought and faith
       1.3 Gröning's ideas about himself
       1.4 Other teachings
    2 Life
    3 Reception
    4 Following
    5 References
    6 External links

Teachings

Gröning said that his ideas were not a new teaching or religion, but rather an ancient knowledge that had been lost, saying that people had forgotten "the most important thing", that there is a higher power or force that is available to help people.

At the center of his teachings was the importance of love, both for God and for others, saying "A human being is a creature of Love. What’s created in love can live only in Love. Love is God!"[citation needed]

Gröning regarded health (rather than illness and disease) as the natural state of all living things and asserted that one can maintain health and heal from illness by absorption of a Divine life force that he called "heilstrom". which translates into English as "healing wave" or "healing stream".
Tuning in to divine energy

To connect with and receive this energy, Gröning taught a technique he called "einstellen" (German for "tuning in"). He said that human beings were like batteries that used energy. To maintain health, a person needed to daily renew themselves by tuning into the healing wave.[1] The practice of einstellen consists of sitting in an upright position with arms and legs uncrossed and palms facing upwards. He stated that it was very important for the back to be straight and to not have any kind of backrest if possible. Inwardly the practice consists of having the wish to receive the heilstrom, having faith that healing is possible, and then focusing on the body, observing the sensations and feelings thereof.

He told people to "take on health" and that in this one regard, in regard to healing that it was permissible, even necessary to be selfish in a manner, that is, to focus on oneself.

Gröning believed that when a person tunes into the healing stream that healings can occur spontaneously or slowly, depending on variables such as the quantity of life force flowing through the body, accelerated during "einstellen". Sometimes the symptoms may worsen or increased pain is experienced, before a healing occurs. Gröning called this occurrence regelungen (German for "regulation") and stated that it is sometimes a necessary part of the healing process.[2]
Power of thought and faith

Gröning emphasized the importance of not thinking about negative things, especially dwelling on an illness one was hoping to heal, in maintaining a positive attitude and having faith, especially the faith that healing was possible. Gröning said that, “Thoughts are energies which will come true! If now you take up the firm intent in your mind to regain your health and the belief that this is possible, with God’s help, you have built up the right mental attitude for healing to begin.” In his teachings, he emphasized that negative thinking and dwelling on problems interferes with the healing process.

Gröning often stated that people needed to "Trust and believe--the Divine Power helps and heals." He went so far as to say that the act of having faith in the divine, or in healing, is an essential part of the healing process.
Gröning's ideas about himself

Gröning's concept of himself was that he was an "appointed person", given the task and capacity to help people by God. He spoke of himself also as a "mediator" and a "transformer", in terms of his role and ability to help people connect with the healing stream. He never took credit for the healings, saying that he was only an instrument and servant of God and that it was God who accomplished healing, not himself.

He said often that he was calling humanity to the "Great Reversal" or "Great Turnaround" - to live a life connected to the divine and to live in harmony with nature. "The sole purpose of my deeds and workings is to guide all people on this earth once again onto the right path, onto the divine path. This is the great reversal."
Other teachings

The particular religion people followed was not considered important by Gröning; rather, what was important was that people had a type of spiritual or religious orientation, saying "To be connected with God, that is all." Gröning spoke of God as the father of all people, who sends help and healing through the "healing stream" regardless of their religion or nationality. He encouraged people to strengthen their connection with whatever faith or denomination they adhered to, and to practice their faith or religion with more diligence, saying "It makes absolutely no difference how the person finds God; the main thing is, that he finds God!“
Life

Gröning had no formal medical training. After working as a carpenter and pursuing some other occupations, he was conscripted during World War II. After being drafted, he stated that he would not kill another human being and came close to being executed for this stance at a court martial. Later, he was made a prisoner of war in Russia; he argued with his captors for better conditions in the prison.[3] Gröning came to public attention in 1949. In Herford, the father of a young boy named Dieter Hulsmann, claimed that Gröning had healed his son of muscular dystrophy and told many people of his belief. News of this story circulated and soon crowds gathered in front of the Hulsmann residence, seeking healing.[4] Soon newspapers began covering the story, which drew larger crowds of up to 5,000 people.

As he traveled around Germany, Austria and Switzerland he would often draw similar size and larger crowds. In September 1949, up to 30,000 people daily came to the city of Rosenheim to see him. Once again, newspapers ran stories about him, even printing entire special editions about the gatherings there.

Gröning died at the age of 52 of stomach cancer.


Media coverage of Bruno Gröning was mixed, with contradictory reports. Some called Gröning a "miracle doctor", others "charlatan."

Gröning faced many legal challenges. In many towns he was forbidden to heal or speak to people. Reasons for this varied. One charge brought against him was that he was practicing medicine without a license. At other times officials were concerned about the large crowds that gathered.[5] He went on trial twice. He was unable to take part in the second trial because he was undergoing surgery at the time.
Following

Various groups continue to promulgate Gröning's teaching, including the Circle of Information, the Bruno Groening Trust, the Bruno Groening Friends, the Association for the Advancement in Germany of Spiritual and Natural - Psychological Foundations for Living, the Association for Natural Spiritual Living, the Bruno Gröning Circle of Friends and Help and Healing Sessions.

Gröning founded the Association for the Advancement in 1958 to replace the Gröning Association. The Circle of Friends was founded in 1979 by Grete Hausler, an Austrian school teacher who worked closely with Gröning. The Circle of Information was created by Thomas Busse, who has written a number of books about Gröning and directed the documentary film The Gröning Phenomena. Help and Healing Sessions is an association of independent Groening groups and hosts online meetings.

The Bruno Gröning Circle of Friends was listed as a commercial cult in an official 1997 report by the Berlin Senate Committee.[


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Sep 20 - 03:15 PM

No-one has mentioned spiritualists removing medication, etc. I've heard of a few nutters who think that diluting cheap salts to nothing is better than real medicine and that rubbing arnica on yourself cures everything, but they are generally not cultish types.

Agree with your post, Jeri.

Why are some of you refraining from typing the word "Christianity"? I seem to recall someone who insisted on calling God "G*d." Is it to do with fear of using the Almighty's name, or are you just being a bit lazy?


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Sep 20 - 03:08 PM

Disparage not lest ye be disparidged, or something like that. No one will be educated by any historic examples of religious over reach here.
Independant thought and self knowledge is enough said and best kept to ourselves. We have enough of a religious war going on right now over slavery is in the bible and BLM.
I tuned in the Kentucky Derby and it to has become politicized. It is heavily armed. Jeesh.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Jeri
Date: 05 Sep 20 - 12:50 PM

Mrrzy, those "divisive" negatives are not the teachings of Christ. Any religion, or cult, or whatever, can be twisted into a power play by those so inclined. Find Christ's teachings stripped of all the later interpretations, and most are good. I won't buy the "pie in the sky" and the putting up with adversity so you can stay alive stuff. There's a time to put up with crap, and a time to fight it. Back in the day, I don't think it was as possible to protest. Not that it's easy now, but you usually don't get nailed to a cross.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Sep 20 - 12:02 PM

Morality the concept goes back to ancient Greek philosophers long before the biblical discussion and the xtian attempted appropriation.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Sep 20 - 11:49 AM

Um, what "principles of Christianity are good ones"...?

Golden rule... Predates Xianity by millennia.

Ditto Love thy Neighbor.

Most of the others are divisive, and otherwise suck, like Preach the gospel, kill the infidel, sex is sinful, you are a wretch, women are sinful, and so on.

But anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Sep 20 - 11:42 AM

Schizophrenia is an exhausting painful disease. Edgar Cayce died in 1945. If you suspected the spiritualists of removing medication or deluding your friend further they could be tried at minimum for negligent homocide or manslaugter. I found that only medication had a positive effect for schizophrenia. A scientific non religious application of hypnosis is minimaly effective if at all. In an aside would rather see a shaw of old than a fading athiest with magical thinking.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Sep 20 - 11:15 AM

The only thing "cults" really have in common is that they challenge hegemonic power.

No, I'd challenge that cult leaders are attempting to take that hegemonic power, and more, onto themselves regarding their victims, aka followers who are usually fleeced.

Jim Jones comes to mind.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Sep 20 - 10:06 AM

The real world is magic enough.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 Sep 20 - 10:01 AM

A friend of mine got involved in the Edgar Cayce thing - it was part of the local Spiritualist church. He had schizophrenia but might well have survived if had not been for those murdering cunts prising him completely loose from reality. He ended up committing sucide by drinking phenol. It took him hours to die with his guts burned away.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Sep 20 - 07:39 AM

The Bruno Groening story was unknown to me but it turns out he was a contemporary of Edgar Cayce also a 'healer'. Unlike a cult I would catagorize this as phenomenology. However as a hypnotist I am biased that the phenomena respondsible was not a person but a mental activation of healing or relief. That being said it leaves many unanswered questions.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Sep 20 - 06:48 AM

Steve, it actually works , i have seen the effects of their spirtual healing, I am an independent observer and do not do the einstellen or take part in it, but i have seen something that i would not have believed possible,if you had asked me 3 years ago.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Sep 20 - 06:14 AM

Well at least that organisation doesn't militate against real medicine, but to claim that a setup that preaches spiritual healing is "good" is, at the very least, moot. In other ways it doesn't fit the concept of a cult. It all seems a bit voluntary and laissez-faire. That's good, but maybe it uncultifies the club somewhat.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Sep 20 - 05:55 AM

A good cult. Bruno Groeling. Circle of friends check it out Steve


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 Sep 20 - 05:30 AM

The point of a postmodern perception of the term is not to expand its applicability. It's to recognize that it's a categorization used to exercise social control. The only thing "cults" really have in common is that they challenge hegemonic power.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Sep 20 - 05:27 AM

Then give me an example of a good cult.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Sep 20 - 04:39 AM

Being postmodern about cultism as Jack said allows for big or small, good or bad and old or new cults. While its 4 AM I am thinking about how the clever checks and balances of the US constitution has shown that it has not been cult proof lately.
A bona fide cult as opposed to a religion my be that a religion is accountable.


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Sep 20 - 02:13 AM

The principles of Christianity are good ones as are the principles ofCommunism , the problem has been some of the people who have infiltrated and used christianity to exercise control, the same goes for Communism
The Spanish inquisition joe stalin and mao have much in common they all believed the end justifies the means


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Subject: RE: BS: What do you think cults have in common?
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Sep 20 - 09:57 PM

Apparently, I was wrong about the not being a cult if it's small or unpopular thing. The definition I found on line is "a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister."


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