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BS: War on Homelesness

The Sandman 30 Aug 20 - 04:54 PM
The Sandman 30 Aug 20 - 05:04 PM
Thompson 31 Aug 20 - 04:37 AM
Stilly River Sage 31 Aug 20 - 11:06 AM
Donuel 01 Sep 20 - 07:55 AM
leeneia 02 Sep 20 - 04:36 PM
Donuel 02 Sep 20 - 05:14 PM
Donuel 03 Sep 20 - 11:05 PM
Lost Chicken in High Weeds 19 Oct 20 - 06:29 PM
keberoxu 19 Oct 20 - 06:58 PM
Lost Chicken in High Weeds 19 Oct 20 - 07:16 PM
Mrrzy 20 Oct 20 - 09:12 AM
Charmion 20 Oct 20 - 10:36 AM
Senoufou 20 Oct 20 - 10:45 AM
Lost Chicken in High Weeds 20 Oct 20 - 10:51 AM
Lost Chicken in High Weeds 20 Oct 20 - 11:00 AM
Mrrzy 20 Oct 20 - 11:43 AM
Lost Chicken in High Weeds 20 Oct 20 - 12:21 PM
Senoufou 20 Oct 20 - 12:47 PM
Ebbie 21 Oct 20 - 04:33 AM
Senoufou 21 Oct 20 - 06:11 AM
Charmion's brother Andrew 21 Oct 20 - 09:13 AM
Ebbie 23 Oct 20 - 12:49 PM
Senoufou 23 Oct 20 - 02:52 PM
Lost Chicken in High Weeds 23 Oct 20 - 03:18 PM
Mrrzy 23 Oct 20 - 04:53 PM
mg 23 Oct 20 - 05:04 PM
Senoufou 23 Oct 20 - 06:07 PM
Lost Chicken in High Weeds 23 Oct 20 - 07:32 PM
Neil D 23 Oct 20 - 09:31 PM
Mrrzy 24 Oct 20 - 12:14 PM
Lost Chicken in High Weeds 24 Oct 20 - 05:18 PM
keberoxu 25 Oct 20 - 04:52 PM
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Subject: BS: War on Homelesness
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Aug 20 - 04:54 PM

George Carlin
https://youtu.be/lncLOEqc9Rw


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Subject: RE: BS: War on Homelesness
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Aug 20 - 05:04 PM

Dedicated to Trump who has a Golf Course


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Subject: RE: BS: War on Homelesness
From: Thompson
Date: 31 Aug 20 - 04:37 AM

Surprising the Democrats don't reuse the old "Would you buy a used car from this man" trope, now that they could do it with the banner headline over actual lies being told.


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Subject: RE: BS: War on Homelesness
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Aug 20 - 11:06 AM

A motto during the Bill Clinton campaign was "It's the Economy, Stupid!"

Now there are so many other things to insert in that space. "It's your very LIFE, stupid!" comes to mind.


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Subject: RE: BS: War on Homelesness
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Sep 20 - 07:55 AM

Yesterday I watched from my parked car as a policeman in a cruiser detained an apparant exhausted and homeless black man with a single black garbage bag and called for back up of two more larger police vehicles. There was no search or abuse that I saw but there was the appearance of fear by the police. Even a firetruck showed up but soon left the scene. It feels like things are on a hair trigger but that may be just me. Perhaps they were just delivering humanitarian help.
In case you didn't know, the police can now call paramedics to administer 500 mg of Ketamine to suspects. It has been fatal to small people but only renders larger people unconscious.
Things are moving/changing just slow enough that Americans seem to be getting used to it. It remains that Trump is the only one calling balls and strikes be it about violence or the pandemic. I believe I am learning to fear the police. I used to know the police and have seen their 'throw down' weapons stored above their visor to claim there was danger AFTER A SHOOTING.
The homeless are about to double in number as evictions are becoming legal again despite the pandemic if one can not pay the rent. Is it possible there will be an open season on the homeless or just a certain color of homeless?


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Subject: RE: BS: War on Homelesness
From: leeneia
Date: 02 Sep 20 - 04:36 PM

Police are bi-modal. They tend to be really good or really bad, because if you are just an average person who wants to make a living, you don't go into police work.

YouTube can provide you with plenty of examples of real policemen doing good work.

We need to dismantle the systems which protect bad policemen from their evil deeds. Work is getting done on this, but we need more of it.


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Subject: RE: BS: War on Homelesness
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Sep 20 - 05:14 PM

Police have become over burdoned with social work and medical response.
Training should include the type of humans that exist and which are no threat just because they can not obey their command. Boy do cops hate it when commands are not obeyed and all too often go directly to murdering the 'offender'.


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Subject: RE: BS: War on Homelesness
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Sep 20 - 11:05 PM

Only 40 million Americans are facing eviction in this pandemic.


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Subject: RE: BS: War on Homelesness
From: Lost Chicken in High Weeds
Date: 19 Oct 20 - 06:29 PM

I'm homeless myself. I suffered a rather complex economic disaster during the Great Recession that greatly contributed to winding up divorced afterwards, and the effects from the economic aspect have me essentially permanently hobbled in key ways.

I presently have a very temporary place to stay due to some severe health issues that have arisen, but previously lived in a national forest with everything I own on a loaded touring bicycle and just make folk art paintings that I sell in random roadside spots, but since these health issues I can no longer function at all and my whole day is oriented around dealing with it, all I can do otherwise is listen to music, read about it, and discuss it.

If it turns out that I am going to live, I have no idea what I will do next. It depends, I suppose, on what my condition will be in the aftermath of whatever treatment, etc. is required. If I am able to fully recover I will have to return to the previous manner. Otherwise, I suppose I'll have to be looking into disability or such. I am getting too old (nearly 50) to maintain more or less living on a bicycle in the woods. I will certainly not go to any cities of significant size, however.

Anyway, obviously a topic that hits deep here. I feel a lot of empathy and very often imagine/pray for the many, many homeless people who I know are far worse off that myself. I am at least mentally able enough to maintain good hygiene, interact with people in a normal manner, and make my simple art to sell rather than begging for pure handouts. But I always fear being harassed by either police, rangers, or just people who have no respect, and fear quite a good many other things altogether.


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Subject: RE: BS: War on Homelesness
From: keberoxu
Date: 19 Oct 20 - 06:58 PM

Lost Chicken in High Weeds,
you have got the most wonderful Mudcat Membername I have seen in a long time, and I wanted to tell you that up front.
And I wanted to welcome you here.
I guess I ought to do the discreet thing,
and send you a PM to that end.
After all, They Who Must Not Be Named
have corrected my lack of decent manners in the past.


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Subject: RE: BS: War on Homelesness
From: Lost Chicken in High Weeds
Date: 19 Oct 20 - 07:16 PM

Hello, I happened to see your post in the FAQ before this and answered it there, I figured it rather likely to be that I was the only new member within the last day. I assume this isn't the type of place to have a significant regular influx of newcomers.


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Subject: RE: BS: War on Homelesness
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Oct 20 - 09:12 AM

I think only nonwhite homeless need fear cops.
Wecome, Lost Chicken In High Weeds! Second the notion that you have a great name.


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Subject: RE: BS: War on Homelesness
From: Charmion
Date: 20 Oct 20 - 10:36 AM

Mrrzy, you're wrong about the vulnerability of even the white homeless when confronting cops. Even in kinder, gentler Canada, all homeless folks, but especially men, need to be extremely careful around cops. By careful, I mean obedient. Failure to comply easily results in arrest for "contempt of cop". Getting arrested isn't getting shot, but it's still humiliating and dangerous -- bad things happen in police custody and the remand cells of local jails. It can also easily result in confiscation and/or destruction of whatever possessions a homeless person has managed to hang onto.

Hey, Lost Chicken. Welcome to the tribe.


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Subject: RE: BS: War on Homelesness
From: Senoufou
Date: 20 Oct 20 - 10:45 AM

Welcome Lost Chicken! Nice to have a new member. I too love your name - brilliant!
Here I think the biggest danger to the homeless is other homeless who can attack and steal from the more vulnerable ones. That's why many have a poor dog to protect them. Passers-by often give some dog-food as well as some cash.
There are homeless night-shelters (to which we donate regularly) but they insist on no alcohol or drugs being brought in, which I can understand. At least the people can have a shower, a bed and some heating, plus spare clothing.
I do admire the Salvation Army, who help a lot.


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Subject: RE: BS: War on Homelesness
From: Lost Chicken in High Weeds
Date: 20 Oct 20 - 10:51 AM

Yes, the need for fear of police transcends race. Being run out of a place when in such an already vulnerable/delicate state is "big deal" enough for the person it's happening to. Being arrested and having to worry for what is happening to "your stuff", which is everything you own, is a *very* big deal, and that's especially for me who took the trouble to acquire actually good stuff while I still had the opportunity so that I could maintain a relatively decent standard of (again, relative) comfort, and it would be far from easily replaced (I was a camper/hiker already, with good/expensive gear from REI).

Then there's the fear of being in jail itself, due to the other inmates. I'm not "jail material" at all. I'm not in the least the criminal type, nor a "tough guy", I'm just a person who can no longer afford to live in any sort of standard manner. And regardless of color, if anyone makes the wrong types of moves with the police, or even just what they perceive as such, there is danger of being shot.


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Subject: RE: BS: War on Homelesness
From: Lost Chicken in High Weeds
Date: 20 Oct 20 - 11:00 AM

keberoxu, I just noticed that your question about my member name and my response were deleted from where I first saw/answered it (the FAQ), so:

When I was a child in the 70s, we had an old timer family friend. We were all he had, so he was around us a lot, even going with us on our vacations (we always had my father, mother, two grandmothers, great aunt, and the old timer, Walt, usually going down to Panama City Beach, FLA back before it became a Spring Break mecca). Each year on the way down there, Walt, in the back seat with me, would look over from time to time and say "We are lost chickens in high weeds, ain't we?".

He also taught me what he knew of 'Old Dan Tucker' and would often sing it to/with me, usually several times each instance, he knew I loved it, and he did too. He passed while I was still a child, I think maybe around age 8 or so, but both of those things stuck with through now at nearly 50.


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Subject: RE: BS: War on Homelesness
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Oct 20 - 11:43 AM

Great story and lovely homage. I shall refrain from nicknaming you ChickWeed.

I am glad to be wrong about racism in homelessness-monitoring.

But -not quite a separate question- why are we using war metaphors instead of healing ones? Why not try to Cure homelessness? And drug abuse and everything else we are losing "wars" against?


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Subject: RE: BS: War on Homelesness
From: Lost Chicken in High Weeds
Date: 20 Oct 20 - 12:21 PM

Definitely agreed on that. When I mentioned imagining the realities of the many, many homeless that are worse off than myself, the addiction thing was considered within that. I definitely wouldn't want to have that constant, all encompassing need on top of the already inherent difficulties. Then there's the mental illness thing. While I surely have my own share of what most would deem "mental issues", I consider mine to be more of an incompatibility between actual reality (which I make great attempts to ascertain/see), and the more truly insane collective illusions that our world operates upon.

A great many homeless are *truly* seriously legit mentally ill, and some decades ago the more robust supports for that were removed (I think under Reagan, or perhaps Clinton. I know the last such facility near here was closed in the 90s, because I visited there around 1994 just to speak with a fellow there that I heard of who claimed insights into the Apocalypse and wanted to meet him for myself, anyway, digressions).

So yes, there's not nearly the levels of "helful" *mentality*. In general, everything is structured to just get and keep people with various "issues" "out of the way" and as out of sight as possible, as quickly and easily as possible, with as little compassionate regard for what *they* are experiencing as possible, so that is indeed a more warlike manner.


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Subject: RE: BS: War on Homelesness
From: Senoufou
Date: 20 Oct 20 - 12:47 PM

Lost Chicken, I spent many years as a volunteer Prison Visitor, and have visited in eight British prisons, including some high-security ones (called 'A' Category) Most of 'my' prisoners had mental health and drug-addiction issues, and had suffered abuse as youngsters. I felt sincerely sorry for their sufferings, and many had been homeless too.
It's true that most folk in 'society' would like them swept out of sight (a bit like Hitler with his concentration camp ideas)
Compassion is one of the most blessed and treasured emotions to have.
I'm an old lady now, so can't do much to help, except to donate to the relevant charities.


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Subject: RE: BS: War on Homelesness
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Oct 20 - 04:33 AM

Rather surprisingly, Juneau, Alaska has a good many homeless people. Many of them are not from Juneau, of course but have come up from 'down south' seeking an Alaska that truly no longer exists, if it ever did. Many of those coming north have no idea of how expensive it is to live here. I remember seeing a small truck with a camper atop in which there were two parents and five children. On the truck was a bright sign saying: ALASKA OR BUST.

The man told me they landed here with $1,000 remaining. They thought that would support them until he found work. They had no idea that with that many people they wouldn't find anything to rent under $2500 or so, plus deposit.

I directed him to a local shelter. I've never seen them again but I hope they found some help.

Juneau, several of years ago, built a complex for a dozen or so small apartments to house some homeless people whether they were addicts of some sort or another; the idea was to get them into a stable environment complete with counselors before they had quit drinking or using.

They have already found that the city has saved money every year: there are far fewer ambulance to hospital runs, far fewer people to pick up from doorways, far fewer people panhandling. It's been a win-win situation so far.


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Subject: RE: BS: War on Homelesness
From: Senoufou
Date: 21 Oct 20 - 06:11 AM

Good gracious Ebbie, imagine being homeless (or even in a campervan) in Alaska! The temperature in winter must be dangerously low.
Here in Norfolk UK there isn't much diversity of race, and we've never seen a black homeless person. Also, Norwich Police are quite calm and measured when they deal with anything. No violence or roughness on their part.
My husband always laughs when we watch a Police programme on TV. When they arrest someone and send for the van to take them to the Police station, they always say, "Mind your head mate!" as they enter the vehicle, even putting a gentle hand on their head to protect them! Husband thinks this is the funniest thing he's ever seen.
Everyone is a human being, deserving of the same respectful treatment as anyone else. And suffering is felt by anyone, no matter of what race, situation in life etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: War on Homelesness
From: Charmion's brother Andrew
Date: 21 Oct 20 - 09:13 AM

Lost Chicken in High Weeds, soyez la bienvenue!

Thanks for the reference to "Old Dan Tucker" in your tribute to Walt. I didn't recognize it at first and, after listening to it on YouTube, realized that I hadn't heard it since the early 1960s.


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Subject: RE: BS: War on Homelesness
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Oct 20 - 12:49 PM

Senoufou, yes, it gets cold here, although not as cold as in the interior. Juneau is right on the ocean.

We do have a homeless shelter; the problem is that if the mandatory breathalizer says you've had something to drink, out you go.
However,the city in the last few years has instated a designated building where there are cots where people can go for a night's sleep. That shelter is opened if the temperature is forecast to drop to 30F.

The pandemic has complicated everything, of course. There is really no way that homeless people can confidently isolate themselves.


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Subject: RE: BS: War on Homelesness
From: Senoufou
Date: 23 Oct 20 - 02:52 PM

Glad to hear it's not quite as cold there, near the sea, as I thought Ebbie.
The state of some homeless people presents big problems. They take drugs and drink, then start fighting among themselves. It can get a bit dangerous in the shelters. A few months ago we spoke to a young woman begging outside the supermarket. I sat down beside her and took her hand (she was crying, and it was quite genuine) She told me she'd been 'abused' by some homeless men (no details) and was frightened to go back to the shelter. She was rather drunk, and we had no idea what to do for her. I gave her some money, but of course, that could be spent on drink or drugs.
Such a difficult problem. Feeling sad for them isn't doing them much good.


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Subject: RE: BS: War on Homelesness
From: Lost Chicken in High Weeds
Date: 23 Oct 20 - 03:18 PM

>The state of some homeless people presents big problems. They take drugs and drink, then start fighting among themselves. It can get a bit dangerous in the shelters

This is among the many reasons I avoid significantly sized cities (and in fact cities at all to the best extent I am able), shelters, and other homeless. I stay in the woods, but not in "homeless camps". Stealing, personal security, and a lack of desire to interact with mindset of the "average homeless person". When I interact, I'd prefer discussing music, art, science, history, etc. That's rarely going to be possible with most homeless that I have met. The only thing that labels me "homeless" is the fact that I have no home, I do not carry much of the same types or degrees of baggage that tends to go along with that. I am certainly what most people would consider "mentally ill", but I'm not hearing voices and can form reasonably coherent thoughts, and have a very high moral standard (I will not steal, and create art to sell rather than "beg", for instance). I also try to maintain the highest levels of hygiene that the situation and location allow for (I camp near creeks/rivers partly for this reason).


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Subject: RE: BS: War on Homelesness
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Oct 20 - 04:53 PM

I still wish we could do without the war metaphor.


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Subject: RE: BS: War on Homelesness
From: mg
Date: 23 Oct 20 - 05:04 PM

you hopefully will seek out help for your disabilities. it can help somewhat. start now because of how many denials some people have to go through.


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Subject: RE: BS: War on Homelesness
From: Senoufou
Date: 23 Oct 20 - 06:07 PM

I'm so sorry Lost Chicken that you're homeless and also have mental health problems. Life must be hard for you, and with winter approaching you must feel very low. Please know that I'm thinking of you and wishing for something good to turn up very soon. Eliza.


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Subject: RE: BS: War on Homelesness
From: Lost Chicken in High Weeds
Date: 23 Oct 20 - 07:32 PM

Well, I personally don't consider what I have to be "mental health problems", more of an incompatibility between what I see to be seeing closer to the essence of actual reality, and living in a world that is built on and functions according to surface based illusions. So I say that most people would *consider* me to be mentally ill. It pretty much works out the same either way, where the rubber meets the road.

Presently I'm dealing with far more serious physical health issues that arose 4 months ago and am being allowed to stay with someone while I slowly get medical help (had to go through a major ordeal to get into a free health program, am finally going for some rather serious hospital exploratory procedures next week, after 3 trips to the ER spanning the 4 months, complete with 2 CT scans and now 4 blood works claimed to turn up "nothing" despite being quite debilitated).

Anyway, yes, Winter can suck pretty hard in lots of ways, though I do have good gear. The bathing in creeks/rivers gets tough, and if my stuff gets damp/wet things get rather difficult. Overall my most significant concerns are not being ran off, and general personal security/vulnerability. And, of course, selling enough folk art to live.


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Subject: RE: BS: War on Homelesness
From: Neil D
Date: 23 Oct 20 - 09:31 PM

Since the time of Reagan, the War on Homelessness has become a war on the homeless.


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Subject: RE: BS: War on Homelesness
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Oct 20 - 12:14 PM

I would love to see your art, Lost Chicken in High Weeds.


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Subject: RE: BS: War on Homelesness
From: Lost Chicken in High Weeds
Date: 24 Oct 20 - 05:18 PM

I have none with me where I'm being allowed to temporarily stay, Mrrzy, I had to store it elsewhere with all but a minimal selection of immediate daily needs here. It's pretty simplistic folk art, definitely nothing impressive, simple shapes and colors, all I'm capable of. I'm not what one would deem a legitimate "artist" by any talent, it's just something I could think of to do with materials acquired cheaply at any Walmart wherever I might be, and portable enough, so that I could have a way to offer something to the world rather than beg. I just do simple animals/nature ( turtles and mushrooms are somewhat popular), and abstracted designs, for the most part, then a few slogan type things.


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Subject: RE: BS: War on Homelesness
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Oct 20 - 04:52 PM

Be A Lert!
The World Needs More Lerts!
And SRS needs help
pushing down the TREACLE
(see Mother of All BS Thread).


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