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BS: Brexit & other UK political topics

Raggytash 23 Mar 21 - 11:51 AM
Rain Dog 23 Mar 21 - 11:42 AM
Raggytash 23 Mar 21 - 11:05 AM
Dave the Gnome 23 Mar 21 - 10:45 AM
Raggytash 23 Mar 21 - 08:32 AM
Nigel Parsons 23 Mar 21 - 05:25 AM
Steve Shaw 23 Mar 21 - 05:24 AM
The Sandman 23 Mar 21 - 04:45 AM
Dave the Gnome 23 Mar 21 - 03:27 AM
Nigel Parsons 22 Mar 21 - 05:24 PM
Raggytash 22 Mar 21 - 04:15 PM
Nigel Parsons 22 Mar 21 - 03:38 PM
Raggytash 22 Mar 21 - 02:11 PM
Steve Shaw 14 Mar 21 - 04:52 PM
The Sandman 14 Mar 21 - 03:58 PM
Steve Shaw 14 Mar 21 - 10:55 AM
Raggytash 14 Mar 21 - 10:06 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Mar 21 - 08:31 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Mar 21 - 06:15 PM
Nigel Parsons 09 Mar 21 - 05:57 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 09 Mar 21 - 05:21 PM
Jos 09 Mar 21 - 02:34 PM
Steve Shaw 09 Mar 21 - 01:43 PM
Allan Conn 09 Mar 21 - 01:41 PM
Raggytash 09 Mar 21 - 01:31 PM
Allan Conn 09 Mar 21 - 01:19 PM
robomatic 07 Mar 21 - 09:23 PM
Dave the Gnome 07 Mar 21 - 03:22 AM
robomatic 07 Mar 21 - 12:13 AM
The Sandman 03 Feb 21 - 04:00 AM
DMcG 02 Feb 21 - 11:18 AM
Backwoodsman 31 Jan 21 - 07:56 AM
The Sandman 31 Jan 21 - 07:16 AM
punkfolkrocker 28 Jan 21 - 11:55 AM
Raggytash 28 Jan 21 - 11:52 AM
punkfolkrocker 28 Jan 21 - 09:45 AM
DMcG 28 Jan 21 - 06:42 AM
Dave the Gnome 28 Jan 21 - 05:18 AM
Nigel Parsons 28 Jan 21 - 04:57 AM
The Sandman 28 Jan 21 - 03:09 AM
punkfolkrocker 27 Jan 21 - 04:15 PM
Doug Chadwick 27 Jan 21 - 03:57 PM
punkfolkrocker 27 Jan 21 - 03:45 PM
Doug Chadwick 27 Jan 21 - 03:36 PM
Dave the Gnome 27 Jan 21 - 11:01 AM
punkfolkrocker 27 Jan 21 - 10:55 AM
punkfolkrocker 27 Jan 21 - 10:50 AM
Raggytash 27 Jan 21 - 10:43 AM
punkfolkrocker 27 Jan 21 - 10:36 AM
The Sandman 27 Jan 21 - 10:22 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 11:51 AM

Yes Rain Dog, it will make a slight impact on the thousands of people who will lose their job.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 11:42 AM

Well it will be a few years before we will be able to tell if we are better off for having left. I remain to be convinced that we will be.

One consequence of leaving is that customs entry clerks are in demand. Companies here in Dover are poaching staff from each other. You could class that as a benefit of leaving.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 11:05 AM

One item specifically mentioned in Nigels link was a drop in the import of medicinal and pharmaceutical products.

That, I suspect, many people would find to be of deep concern.

Yet another failure of the government.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 10:45 AM

Well done, Nigel. No spin on those figures. Massive falls in imports and exports. We have yet to be convinced that this is a good thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 08:32 AM

So Nigel, Imports to the UK have fallen, that would suggest that goods that I want to buy are not readily available.

Yet another failing by the government.

I know this on a personal level as goods I ordered back at the beginning of January are still stuck in the distributors in the EU.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 05:25 AM

DtG:
Okay, if we're trying to avoid spin maybe we should avoid reading quotes from the Guardian. It hardly ever gives the whole picture.
The January fall in exports to EU was more than matched (in value, if not percentage terms) by a fall of imports from the EU (which they would describe as their exports to us):

Exports of goods, excluding non-monetary gold and other precious metals, fell by £5.3 billion (19.3%) in January 2021, because of a £5.6 billion (40.7%) fall in exports to the EU.

Imports of goods, excluding non-monetary gold and other precious metals, fell by £8.9 billion (21.6%) in January 2021, driven by a £6.6 billion (28.8%) fall in imports from the EU.

from The DNS
They also say: Trade has not been typical in recent months and, because of the practical challenges and temporary factors outlined in Section 3, we would encourage users to apply caution when making short-term comparisons of trade movements.

This makes the point I was making, with no spin applied from either side.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 05:24 AM

I have a feeling that my post was left hanging among a bunch of deletions, Dick.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 04:45 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 04:52 PM

In this country we don't deal in summary execution by a policeman without trial and conviction in the street, no matter what past offences we've committed. Your reasoning is, frankly, fatally flawed."
who is this directed at


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 03:27 AM

Yes Nigel. It was spin and your first "quote" was not direct was it. You said freight volumes were back to normal. The article said overall freight volumes were back to their normal. You of all people should know that omitting the word "overall" makes a world of difference. Given that they had also reported that Overall figures now show that food and drink exports collapsed in January, plunging overall by 75.5% year on year. Down to £256m from £1bn. then I think it is very fair to say that you were trying to divert attention from that fact. Or, to give it another name, spinning.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 Mar 21 - 05:24 PM

You may not have noticed, I wasn't spinning it. I was quoting directly from the article that you linked to.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Mar 21 - 04:15 PM

Spin it any way you want Nigel but food and drink exports dropped by almost 75%.

Now most of us except that circumstances are different this year but I suspect that few of us realised just how great the impact would be.

The Government, of course, will try to blame Covid or the firms involved for not being up to speed.

In fact they will blame anyone, except themselves of course.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 Mar 21 - 03:38 PM

Of course, the article paints the worst possible picture.
You have to read through to almost the end before you realise they're talking about an apparent 'blip' and that freight volumes were back to their normal levels since the start of February

And that: “A unique combination of factors, including stockpiling last year, Covid lockdowns across Europe and businesses adjusting to our new trading relationship, made it inevitable that exports to the EU would be lower this January than last,” said a spokesperson for the department (DEFRA).


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Mar 21 - 02:11 PM

I seem to recall that Brexiteers maintained that the world would be our oyster once we had left the EU and we would develop vast new markets for our produce.

An article in the press today paints a somewhat different picture with the export of some produce down 98%.

Collapse of some exports


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 04:52 PM

In this country we don't deal in summary execution by a policeman without trial and conviction in the street, no matter what past offences we've committed. Your reasoning is, frankly, fatally flawed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 03:58 PM

i have encountered violent policeman and violent women, but more of the former


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 10:55 AM

There's a video clip of the same incident on the Guardian website. The two officers on the woman were men. Take a look: it's very disturbing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 10:06 AM

The picture is indeed shocking, however, I have met some extremely violent women in my time and as we don't know what preceded this photograph I would not rush to make a judgement.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 08:31 AM

I open the Observer digital edition this morning to see a young woman face down on the ground with two police officers on top of her, pinning her down to handcuff her. She was attending what had been a peaceful vigil in honour of Sarah Everard.

For Christ's sake.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Mar 21 - 06:15 PM

You really shouldn't have needed to be told that, WAV.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Mar 21 - 05:57 PM

WAV:
There is not a dichotomy between BAME and English.
Someone may be a member of both groups, or of just one, or of neither.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Mar 21 - 05:21 PM

Positive discrimination for one group of people is negative discrimination for everyone else, & BAFTA are now discriminating for BAME & against English - content to do their bit in their NATIVE land.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Jos
Date: 09 Mar 21 - 02:34 PM

The news about Piers Morgan really made my day.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Mar 21 - 01:43 PM

I went there hoping to correct a mishearing of Oprah that I made due to not having my hearing aids in...I suppose leaving my mistake there won't change the world...

(She said "...What!?" not "...Wow!")

The only political thing I currently have to say is good riddance to Piers Morgan!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Allan Conn
Date: 09 Mar 21 - 01:41 PM

Fair point Raggy. I have no wish to subvert any thread. Just felt I needed to say that out loud so to speak. Apologies.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Mar 21 - 01:31 PM

I understand your frustration Allen but please do not sideline this particular thread otherwise this too may be closed.

Personally I couldn't give a flying **** about the topic you mention and do not wish to hear anything about it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Allan Conn
Date: 09 Mar 21 - 01:19 PM

I can't believe how some threads are closed on here for no apparent reason - or at least far too prematurely. I was posting on the thread re the Royal Family whatsitabout at the moment and said nothing abusive to anyone or anything inflammatory. Then SRS closes the thread saying I was commenting on something I hadn't seen and leaves no way a reply can be made. I thought that was the height of bad manners and quite frankly an abuse of admin powers which I take it he/she has!!!! And the fact I didn't watch the interview itself is irrelevant. There has been nothing else on the news channels and media for the past 30 hours now. I have seen plenty enough to comment on it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Mar 21 - 09:23 PM

DtG: Just trying to be careful. As a fan of amphibions I was not aware of the horror content - beauty in the eye of the toad-holder, so to speak.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Mar 21 - 03:22 AM

That was a nasty trick, Robo. Springing a close up of the man toad himself on us with no warning. Luckily I was too busy being sick to throw my tablet through the window.

Some warning about horror content next time please.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Mar 21 - 12:13 AM

Nigel Farage - "Why I'm standing down as leader"


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Feb 21 - 04:00 AM

Yes!

Someone, at a pay grade above that of the nurses, needs to ensure that nurses are available at every hospital, and that the flow of nurses to different hospitals is maintained.

Someone else needs to ensure that the government coffers have sufficient money to pay the nurses.
quote above nigel parsons
Boris Johnson has failed in his job, there is a shortage of nurses and empty field hospitals, in my opinion on merit he does not deserve to be paid substantially more than a nurse


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Feb 21 - 11:18 AM

Adam Payne reported from live from the House of Parliament:

A penny-drop moment, as Gove admits “there are a number of issues that I would not describe as a teething problems. They are significant issues which bear on the lives of people...”. He calls on GB-NI grace periods (doesn’t say which) to be extended to avoid shortages of goods.
12:59 PM · Feb 2, 2021


Here is the relevant Hansard section:

Michael Gove

My right hon. Friend is right that the problem needs to be addressed both in the short and in the medium to long term. In the short term, there are a number of issues that I would not describe as teething problems; they are significant issues that bear on the lives of people in Northern Ireland, which do need to be resolved. We need to make sure that grace periods are extended. We need to make sure that supermarkets and other traders can continue—as they are at the moment—to be able to supply consumers with the goods that they need. There are a number of specific issues and they extend, as I mentioned earlier, to everything from pet transport to the provision of plants and seeds to gardens in Northern Ireland. The daily life of our fellow citizens does need to be protected and we must deal with all those questions. In the medium to long term, it is important that we take all the steps required to ensure that citizens in Northern Ireland recognise that they are an integral part of the UK and that their daily lives and the way in which this Parliament works reflect that fully.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 07:56 AM

It’s correct, there are major problems with both import and export documentation and customs. Some hauliers are now refusing to even pick loads up from customers until all documentation has been submitted to them which, for a number of reasons, is difficult, even impossible in some circumstances.

Shipping Agents are overwhelmed, the HMRC system is overloaded, close to overwhelmed. Customers are playing holy fuck. My wife is the Logistics Operations Manager for the U.K. division of a world-wide petro-chemical company with numerous processing plants in the EU, and they have managed to get three out of around forty shipments across since the 4th January. She’s tearing her hair out, and says that Leave-voters should all be lined up against a wall and machine-gunned.

The dozy buggers didn’t put any of this shit on their big red f***ing bus, did they? All we heard about was ‘sunlit uplands’, ‘take are cuntry back’, and blue passports.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 07:16 AM

Does anyone have any info on a brexit customs mix up, is what i found correct
A key U.K. government customs system has been overwhelmed within weeks of Brexit and threatens to trigger more disruption as freight traffic increases.

Exporters say they are struggling to acquire transit documents, which allow goods to enter the European Union without delay, because of a shortage of agents with the authority to issue them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Jan 21 - 11:55 AM

Raggy - That's no joke..
A year ago I was cynically convinced tories had started doing those maths...!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 28 Jan 21 - 11:52 AM

Oh I don't know Punkfolkrocker, just think of the cash savings of not having to pay pensions in the future to 100,000 people and the monies saved by the NHS of not having to treat 100,000 people in the future.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Jan 21 - 09:45 AM

Let's just say Boris and tory ministers
are lucky they are not remunerated only by performance related salaries..

.. unless we live in a warped universe where negligently killing higher numbers of British citizens
results in more lucrative commissions and pay bonuses...!!!???


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Jan 21 - 06:42 AM

I would agree, Nigel, that someone with all those responsibilities should be well paid.

But there was an interesting article in the Telegraph that is related to this. It is behind a paywall so you may mot be able to read the full thing, but here is an important paragraph:

This is not a product of one government’s incompetence. It reflects deep-seated changes in the way state power is conceived and organised – by political parties of left and right, not just in Britain but in many other “advanced” economies. A system built around dispersing responsibility, accountability and control is, unsurprisingly, irresponsible, unaccountable, and not in control of its fate.

Most of the things you refer to, Nigel, have been delegated, with the result that the Government says the PPE problems were not theirs, they were PH(E) failures, and so on.

I would say the government does merit those salaries if it is responsible for the things you mention (and others). If, however, it delegates all responsibility it does not.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jan 21 - 05:18 AM

Absolutely cracking article in the Independent on Boris and Covid deaths

Starts with

The prime minister is obviously too sad and grief stricken about the Covid death toll to face the consequences of his government’s mishandling of the pandemic

Which should give a measure of the tone :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Jan 21 - 04:57 AM

Do you also think that in these present times, the job of this prime minster based on his lack of achievement with brexit and his inept handling of covid, means he deserves such a huge plus in salary compared to a nurse.

Yes!

Someone, at a pay grade above that of the nurses, needs to ensure that nurses are available at every hospital, and that the flow of nurses to different hospitals is maintained.

Someone else needs to ensure that the government coffers have sufficient money to pay the nurses.

Someone needs to be able to obtain PPE and vaccines in a time of global shortage. They also need to be able to access government (our) funds to pay for these things.
In order to have the funds to buy PPE & vaccines the country needs to have a continuing and effective treasury/economy.

The Left are happy to blame everything on Boris, saying that it is all his responsibility. If the responsibility is his, then the pay should be commensurate with that level of responsibility.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Jan 21 - 03:09 AM

Raggytash please read my post again.
I see that there are not enough nurses solution give them a pay rise.
I also see Boris Johnson has not done his job with competence, I think he is over paid in comparison to nurses.
The question of whether any prime minster should be paid more than nurses, that is a completely different question ,and you know that, that too is debatable considering that the civil service make a lot of decisions and are permanent whilst prime minsters come and go, but that was not being proposed by me.
that is a slightly different subject
Raggytash, do you seriously think Johnson is doing a better and more important job than the nurses.
Do you also think that in these present times, the job of this prime minster based on his lack of achievement with brexit and his inept handling of covid, means he deserves such a huge plus in salary compared to a nurse.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 04:15 PM

Doug - ok, seriously..

A well-placed qualifying "all" or "some" would have made that clearer, I admit.

Though as I often write quickly between and during chores,
I do tend to think in terms of essential principles rather than specifics..

Sometimes perhaps a little too over generalised...???

But usually I know when I'm doing that for deliberate polemical effect.

However the point still stands that furlough billions from the tories' amazing magic money tree forest could, in some cases,
be better used...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 03:57 PM

If you say that I have got it wrong, then maybe so but the idea of

... public money being frittered away wasted on furlough schemes...

suggests to me that you disapprove of efforts being made to preserve jobs in the private sector.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 03:45 PM

Doug - eh...?????????

Putting down...?????


Want to destroy...??????


.. oh I get it.. you've made up something in your own mind,
which you seem to have convinced yourself
was my intended meaning..

Then responded as though I'd actually written it..

I understand now..

Nah Doug, you got all that wrong...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 03:36 PM

Consider how many necessary public sector real jobs could be created
with all the public money being frittered away wasted on furlough schemes,
temporarily propping up doomed private companies...???


As important as medics, educators and the emergency services are, don't put down people who actually make things that people need? Of course, the public sector jobs you are hoping to create could be yet more bureaucrats to deal with the long line of unemployed workers from the manufacturing sector that you seem to want to destroy.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 11:01 AM

I think Nurse Ratched should be paid more than the current Prime Minister. And has more heart.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 10:55 AM

Consider how many necessary public sector real jobs could be created
with all the public money being frittered away wasted on furlough schemes,
temporarily propping up doomed private companies...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 10:50 AM

All public service workers need to be paid more,
and the public sector needs to be expanded to realistic effective levels.

This should be regarded as an apolitical pragmatic priority for any Govt running Britain.

But we know it will never happen under tory ideological rule...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 10:43 AM

Yes I do think a Prime Minister should be paid more than a nurse.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 10:36 AM

Dick - so how many nurses have you given the clap...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 10:22 AM

my point, fairly obvious.
nurses are doing a good job but not getting paid enough
Capitalism works on the basis of supply and demand, we have empty field hospitals and not enough nurses to work in them , pay them more. WE MIGHT SOLVE THE SHORTAGE OF NURSES
Boris Johnson however is not doing a good job and getting paid too much in comparison
Raggytash , do you think the nurses are doing a good job and do you think Johnson is doing a good job., and deserves to be paid more than nurses
Raggytash, are you one of those people that think giving the nurses a clap is sufficient.


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