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BS: Brexit & other UK political topics

Nigel Parsons 07 May 21 - 03:58 PM
Dave the Gnome 07 May 21 - 01:15 PM
Backwoodsman 07 May 21 - 11:28 AM
Backwoodsman 07 May 21 - 11:14 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 May 21 - 11:14 AM
Steve Shaw 07 May 21 - 11:11 AM
Rain Dog 07 May 21 - 10:38 AM
Backwoodsman 07 May 21 - 09:04 AM
Steve Shaw 07 May 21 - 08:51 AM
Rain Dog 07 May 21 - 08:41 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 May 21 - 08:19 AM
Rain Dog 07 May 21 - 08:03 AM
Backwoodsman 07 May 21 - 07:26 AM
Backwoodsman 07 May 21 - 07:15 AM
Steve Shaw 07 May 21 - 07:12 AM
Rain Dog 07 May 21 - 06:15 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 May 21 - 06:13 AM
Backwoodsman 07 May 21 - 05:47 AM
Steve Shaw 07 May 21 - 04:58 AM
DMcG 07 May 21 - 04:41 AM
The Sandman 07 May 21 - 02:43 AM
The Sandman 07 May 21 - 01:05 AM
Backwoodsman 07 May 21 - 12:57 AM
Steve Shaw 06 May 21 - 08:51 PM
The Sandman 05 May 21 - 09:17 AM
Backwoodsman 05 May 21 - 09:11 AM
Bonzo3legs 05 May 21 - 08:13 AM
Backwoodsman 05 May 21 - 08:08 AM
The Sandman 05 May 21 - 07:57 AM
Dave the Gnome 04 May 21 - 02:45 AM
Nigel Parsons 03 May 21 - 04:27 PM
The Sandman 03 May 21 - 01:04 PM
Rain Dog 03 May 21 - 12:30 PM
punkfolkrocker 03 May 21 - 12:16 PM
The Sandman 03 May 21 - 11:46 AM
punkfolkrocker 03 May 21 - 11:16 AM
Jos 03 May 21 - 03:19 AM
Dave the Gnome 03 May 21 - 02:15 AM
Raggytash 02 May 21 - 06:07 PM
Dave the Gnome 02 May 21 - 01:33 PM
Nigel Parsons 02 May 21 - 11:03 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 May 21 - 07:13 AM
The Sandman 02 May 21 - 06:30 AM
punkfolkrocker 02 May 21 - 03:58 AM
Nigel Parsons 01 May 21 - 03:53 PM
Backwoodsman 01 May 21 - 03:31 PM
The Sandman 01 May 21 - 08:20 AM
Dave the Gnome 01 May 21 - 07:35 AM
Steve Shaw 01 May 21 - 07:27 AM
Allan Conn 01 May 21 - 07:04 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 May 21 - 03:58 PM

Dave:
He gets the job done. His sexual morality (or lack thereof) has no real effect on the job he is doing.
What the payment arrangements were for his flat, and I still believe in innocent until proven guilty, again do not prevent him doing his job.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 21 - 01:15 PM

Btw, I fully acknowledge that I do not understand how people still stand behind this government but accept that is my problem, not theirs. I try to understand but to date no-one has explained how a lying, cheating philanderer like Boris can be so popular. Can you?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 May 21 - 11:28 AM

”I am bemused that some of you seem to have the ability to get inside the minds of others and know the reasons why they voted the way they did.”

No, RD, we don’t do that. But we do see and hear the mind-control techniques and diversionary tactics of Brexiteers and the Tories, some overt, some subtle, but all aimed at persuading **a certain kind** of voter to vote against their own best interests.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 May 21 - 11:14 AM

So, RD, what you’re saying is that your opinion is that other people shouldn’t be allowed to express their opinion unless it’s an opinion you approve of?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 21 - 11:14 AM

Why the personal attack, Rain Dog? If you believe your previous posts were not vexacious, that last one was nothing but until the last paragraph. A good way to get a thread closed and little else.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 May 21 - 11:11 AM

"What's next? Asking the mods to stop me from posting? That is the usual tactic here isn't it?"

No it isn't. It happens rarely. I can think of two people in the sixteen or so years I've been here, and I'm not even sure that I asked the mods to stop them posting. Mists of time and all that. Dunno about anyone else here. By the way, those two were both far-right plants.

"I don't like the way some of you denigrate and insult those people who dare to vote for parties or ideas that you don't like."

We call it "democracy."

"I am bemused that those of you with mind reading abilities were surprised by the Hartlepool result."

"Those of us?" Pray tell, which one of us expressed the remotest bit of surprise at the result? Au contraire, I saw this coming weeks ago and you can bet your bottom dollar that so did the others posting to this thread. You make things up just to knock them down. Some call it straw man. Perhaps your favourite aunt is called Sally...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 07 May 21 - 10:38 AM

Vexatious?

What's next? Asking the mods to stop me from posting? That is the usual tactic here isn't it?

I don't like the way some of you denigrate and insult those people who dare to vote for parties or ideas that you don't like.

I am bemused that some of you seem to have the ability to get inside the minds of others and know the reasons why they voted the way they did.

I am bemused that those of you with mind reading abilities were surprised by the Hartlepool result. There was always the possibility of Tory win but I did not expect it to be so big.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 May 21 - 09:04 AM

Of course we haven’t, Steve. Just more Straw-Men - no surprise there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 May 21 - 08:51 AM

Neither I nor anyone else here has even remotely suggested that anyone should be denied the vote on the grounds of their education/ignorance/voting predilections, or should have to pass any test, and predicating your argument on that premise marks you as vexatious.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 07 May 21 - 08:41 AM

"What do we think that a young adult should know after they have completed 13 years of compulsory education here in the UK?"

Well, as they have followed different paths through school, have different talents and abilities (or disabilities) and all progress at different rates, there's no answer to that, is there? I could say a basic level of numeracy and literacy, but one student's good is another student's bog-standard is another student's impossible. I could say they should have a well-rounded, intelligent and sociable outlook on life, but, grand though that sounds, it's just waffle. I could say sympathy and tolerance for all other humans, and a high level of environmental consciousness, but ditto. I could say that the generations above them have the responsibility to pass on all the best of what they themselves have learned, so that the young 'uns can stand on the shoulders of giants, but gosh, that's mired in all sorts of murk, innit...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 21 - 08:19 AM

Should you only be able to vote if you have achieved the pass mark in one of Steve's exams?

Of course not and, yet again, you are setting up another straw man.

I do believe however that those responsible for deciding the fate of others, ie the electorate, should have at least some understanding of what they are voting for and the what the consequences of their decisions are likely to be. The best way of doing this is to educate the electorate from an early age. It is too late for those, like us, already set in our ways but for those as yet to vote there is plenty of opportunity to do this in a completely non partisan manner.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 07 May 21 - 08:03 AM

I am not a fan of people who choose to insult those who think or act differently.

I don't know why the people of Hartlepool voted the way that they did. I don't have that insight that some of you seem to possess. Of course the people who voted conservative did not necessarily all have the same reasons for doing so. But it was their right to vote as they wanted.

Political ignorance? How many times have you heard people say that they have always voted for a party because their parents and maybe their grandparents voted that way. Should we stop them from voting? Should you only be able to vote if you have achieved the pass mark in one
of Steve's exams? I can just imagine the arguments about the curriculum for that subject.

These are strange times that we are living in when so many of you have such low opinions of your fellow citizens.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 May 21 - 07:26 AM

Good post Steve. Absolutely right on the button.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 May 21 - 07:15 AM

It speaks volumes that you don’t actually deny the truth of those epithets, RD, you simply put up a straw-man. Perhaps you’d care to provide proof of where I’m wrong?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 May 21 - 07:12 AM

No-one is suggesting that, but it's perfectly possible to bemoan the fact that there is a severe deficit in political education which leads people to choose to vote against their own interests. 'Twas ever thus: in the 70s, when we suggested properly structured political education in schools we were shot down as extreme commie reds under the beds. Nothing suits the Tories better than an ignorant electorate. It makes many people prone to being impressed more by a fat idiot driving a JCB through a wall of polystyrene blocks, or riding a bike lustily in a faked photograph, than any consideration of the important issues of the day. They are prone to not minding too much a serial liar or fornicator either. Send out the gunboats and grab some votes! Political ignorance has delivered the world Margaret Thatcher, Ronald Reagan, Dubya, Donald Trump and our own resident clown. They are all far more of a threat to democracy than us lot here moaning about bad voter decision-making.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 07 May 21 - 06:15 AM

"feeble-minded and the brainwashed. Suckers will be suckers..."

"Union-Jack-Boxers Brigade, the flag-waggers, and the simple-minded ones"


Terrible things elections. The sheer effrontery of some people deciding to vote differently from oneself. Surely there must be a way of disenfranchising these automatons in any future elections.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 21 - 06:13 AM

I see that monkey hangers are now monkey huggers...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 May 21 - 05:47 AM

That’s exactly the point Steve. Sabre-rattling, designed to please the Union-Jack-Boxers Brigade, the flag-waggers, and the simple-minded ones who fall for the government’s Nationalistic, Right-Wing propaganda.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 May 21 - 04:58 AM

He didn't have to send them at all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 07 May 21 - 04:41 AM

On the gunboat issue: it is slightly more complicated than Boris sending them in on election day, because he could only send them in response to the French fishing fleet. And they were entirely free to choose what day the action took place. It could be the day after the voting equally easily as the day before. Had it been the day after, Johnson could have sent the patrol boats and it would have had no impact on the votes, because they would have been cast already.

I would say, though, that given the French had decided to turn up just before the vote, Johnson almost certainly reacted by sending in the patrol boats because it would 'sell well to the Brexit supporters' who were about to vote.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 May 21 - 02:43 AM

i even heard some reporter say this LATEST ELECTION defeat was Corbyns fault


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 May 21 - 01:05 AM

first the people of hartlepool hung a monkey now they are electing one


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 May 21 - 12:57 AM

Sadly, Steve, his blatant opportunism chimes with the feeble-minded and the brainwashed. Suckers will be suckers...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 May 21 - 08:51 PM

As John Bercow said on QT tonight, if you believe that sending the gunboats to Jersey on Election Day is a coincidence, you'll believe anything. That's how Boris does it. You don't need morals.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 May 21 - 09:17 AM

i agree backwood


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 May 21 - 09:11 AM

On another, far more important topic, it appears that a design has been put forward for a new, £200 million royal yacht....

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/01/exclusive-britannia-rule-waves-new-royal-yacht-named-prince/

Another enormous waste of taxpayers’ money, but at least it’ll give the royal-worshippers and flag-waggers the pleasure of a huge orgasm....


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 May 21 - 08:13 AM

Only partially absent, but twice as mean!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 May 21 - 08:08 AM

Wouldn’t a DNA-test determine the veracity of Simon Dorante-Day’s claim to be the spawn of Charles and Camilla, and put an end to the newspaper/FarceBook talk?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 May 21 - 07:57 AM

Prince Charles does he have an illegitimate son?
GOSH HOW UPSETTING FOR OUR NOW ABSENT ROYAL WORSHIPPER.he must be barking and frothing at the month ,well dorante day better mid himself or else he will have an accident like diana


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 May 21 - 02:45 AM

Thank you Nigel. That is what Polly Toynbee was saying!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 May 21 - 04:27 PM

OK. I'll make it simple. Is the mismanagement of brexit a more serious issue than breaching parliamentary procedure and then lying about it?

In my opinion, Yes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 May 21 - 01:04 PM

well the bookies have the tory candiate at 4 to 7 on


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 03 May 21 - 12:30 PM

Let's see what happens in Hartlepool on Thursday.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 May 21 - 12:16 PM

Remember that we had egg on our faces when predicting he'd be ditched within weeks of winning the election.
Going down on record as the shortest lasting PM ever..

I definitely got that prediction wrong,
that the tories would use his bare faced dishonest populism to win.
Them boot him out at the first opportunity he f***** up
( with some typical stupid bad PR misdemeanor)
In order to bring in their all along first choice more hardline further right replacement..

He's a cunning bastard born survivor,
and he knows just how ruthless his backstabbing ministers will be...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 May 21 - 11:46 AM

i reckon the consevatives will ditch him


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 May 21 - 11:16 AM

Boris, you are in too much hot water over corruption accusations, far too close to elections.

You better resort too distracting voters with strong suggestions you'll lift safe distancing and travel restrictions even earlier asap in June.

Just remember to qualify it with 'as data allows" while you cross your fingers behind your back and give a sly wink and nod to camera..

And don't give into those trouble making complaining lefties who are so afraid of such irrelevant trifling matters as piles of bodies.

Ignore the soft commie twats...



You know, I think I missed my true vocation as a tory party advisor...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Jos
Date: 03 May 21 - 03:19 AM

Do we know that it HAS been paid yet?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 May 21 - 02:15 AM

Johnson in a truthful and straightforward manner?

You're having a laugh Raggy!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 May 21 - 06:07 PM

We elect politicians of whichever party to govern the country. They are public servants, we expect them to hold to certain standards and they are beholden to not to abuse the positions we have elected them to hold.

Johnson by evading to answer what should have been a simple question is thus ensuring a very expensive inquiry will have to take place and therefore compounding the insult he may have inflicted upon the British public.

A VERY simply way to have avoided this was to answer the question of who paid for the refurbishment of his apartment at No 11 Downing Street in a truthful and straightforward manner.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 May 21 - 01:33 PM

OK. I'll make it simple. Is the mismanagement of brexit a more serious issue than breaching parliamentary procedure and then lying about it?

A simple yes or no will do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 May 21 - 11:03 AM

Dave:
Typical political answer, Nigel
Not a 'political' answer. I answered the question you phrased. If the question is so badly phrased that a straightforward answer can be so easily (or deliberately) misunderstood then that is the fault of the person asking the question.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 May 21 - 07:13 AM

Typical political answer, Nigel. Like Bozzer going on about the virus when asked a direst question about his breaking parliamentary rules. All bluster and no substance. Little wonder he is your pin up boy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 May 21 - 06:30 AM

from labours point of view who would be the party leader most likely to .lose for the tories gove patel johnson or sunak


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 May 21 - 03:58 AM

Nigel - do you disagree that boris would repay your loyalty
by throwing you under a bus
if his own benefit and survival were at stake...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 May 21 - 03:53 PM

OK, thanks Nigel. You gave a direct answer of 'no' to whether the mismanagment of brexit was more important than lying about the refurbishment of his flat so you must consider the latter to be more important. On the other hand, you say that Bozzer will be remembered more for brexit. How can that be if you consider it a less important issue than his curtains?

Again, No!.
The question I answered was yours: do you agree with her conclusion that Johnson's mismanagement of brexit is a much bigger crime than the expensive curtains?

By saying "No!" that does not mean that I think curtains are more important. I do not agree with her conclusion that a) Johnson has mismanaged Brexit, or b) That his treatment of Brexit was a crime.

My answer of "No!" was in response to your question of whether I agreed with her conclusion. Do not try to read into it something which isn't there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 May 21 - 03:31 PM

Whatever our resident Tory apologists say, however they wriggle, no matter how they manipulate their weasel-words, the plain, simple truth - undeniable except by those too blinded by Tory propaganda and dogma to see - is that Johnson is an habitual liar who cares about no-one but himself, utterly devoid of shame or morals, and totally unsuitable to be the leader of the United Kingdom..

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/30/scandal-charge-sheet-johnson-wallpaper-lying?fbclid=IwAR0rXmSukafl8GedXIRs


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 May 21 - 08:20 AM

however keir starmer does not seem to be leading the party any more effectively than corbyn, he is imo no more effective at pm question time and has as much charisma as the moving statue. keir starmer the moving statue of st pancreas


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 May 21 - 07:35 AM

Agreed, Steve. But it will not damage the country as much as brexit! Bozzer has a track record of lying, cheating and bullying yet he was so popular that he gained a massive majority. We need to ask ourselves why and, as a member of the Labour party at the time, I consider it to be as much my fault as anyone's that the mandate to continue lying, cheating and bullying was handed to him on a plate.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 May 21 - 07:27 AM

It is not a minor matter. It is an abuse of the privileges of high office. It is, in essence, the same kind of amorality/immorality that leads to the enrichment of dictators and their hangers-on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Allan Conn
Date: 01 May 21 - 07:04 AM

The Tories started off this Scottish election with constant attacks on Sturgeon and did she break the ministerial code. There was several weeks of it with the media suggesting she was in the point of having to resign. In truth nobody much in the population at large very much cared if she heard about the allegations against Salmond several days before she initially said. It blew over eventually and no doubt dented the initial campaign a wee bit but not seriously. They are ending it now with their own UK leader under the spotlight. Not sure if that will make much difference in the scheme things. If Labour come in 2nd rather than the Tories I think it would be down to Sarwar appearing more sensible than Ross more than what Boris has or hasn't done.


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