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BS: Brexit & other UK political topics

punkfolkrocker 04 Jun 21 - 01:22 PM
Backwoodsman 04 Jun 21 - 12:58 PM
The Sandman 04 Jun 21 - 12:58 PM
Steve Shaw 04 Jun 21 - 12:40 PM
Backwoodsman 04 Jun 21 - 12:29 PM
Bonzo3legs 04 Jun 21 - 12:29 PM
Jos 04 Jun 21 - 12:26 PM
The Sandman 04 Jun 21 - 12:17 PM
Backwoodsman 04 Jun 21 - 12:08 PM
Doug Chadwick 04 Jun 21 - 11:59 AM
Backwoodsman 04 Jun 21 - 11:45 AM
Donuel 04 Jun 21 - 11:33 AM
punkfolkrocker 04 Jun 21 - 10:45 AM
Backwoodsman 04 Jun 21 - 10:38 AM
SPB-Cooperator 04 Jun 21 - 09:22 AM
Backwoodsman 04 Jun 21 - 09:04 AM
Doug Chadwick 04 Jun 21 - 08:26 AM
SPB-Cooperator 04 Jun 21 - 07:28 AM
Backwoodsman 04 Jun 21 - 07:24 AM
Dave the Gnome 04 Jun 21 - 05:39 AM
SPB-Cooperator 03 Jun 21 - 09:21 AM
Backwoodsman 01 Jun 21 - 04:19 PM
Dave the Gnome 01 Jun 21 - 03:49 PM
Backwoodsman 01 Jun 21 - 03:02 PM
Donuel 01 Jun 21 - 08:41 AM
Donuel 01 Jun 21 - 08:31 AM
Steve Shaw 01 Jun 21 - 03:51 AM
Rain Dog 01 Jun 21 - 02:26 AM
punkfolkrocker 31 May 21 - 11:30 PM
Steve Shaw 31 May 21 - 07:34 PM
Steve Shaw 31 May 21 - 07:27 PM
Steve Shaw 31 May 21 - 07:22 PM
Stilly River Sage 31 May 21 - 03:20 PM
Geoff Wallis 31 May 21 - 01:49 PM
punkfolkrocker 31 May 21 - 01:15 PM
Stilly River Sage 31 May 21 - 01:02 PM
DMcG 31 May 21 - 12:58 PM
gnu 31 May 21 - 12:57 PM
DMcG 31 May 21 - 12:46 PM
Nigel Parsons 31 May 21 - 11:59 AM
Geoff Wallis 31 May 21 - 11:50 AM
DMcG 31 May 21 - 11:30 AM
punkfolkrocker 31 May 21 - 11:24 AM
Nigel Parsons 31 May 21 - 11:00 AM
punkfolkrocker 31 May 21 - 09:27 AM
Steve Shaw 31 May 21 - 09:26 AM
Bonzo3legs 31 May 21 - 08:42 AM
punkfolkrocker 31 May 21 - 08:16 AM
DMcG 31 May 21 - 03:44 AM
Dave the Gnome 31 May 21 - 02:41 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Jun 21 - 01:22 PM

.. and yet another highly successful distraction attack, wasting our time and attention..

A petty pedantic row about haddock faces / etc, diverting focus away from real criticism
of this deplorble govt and their corrupt cabal..

Well done haddock face, viper, and gummidge fanboys...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jun 21 - 12:58 PM

You’re right of course, Steve, and point taken here. Hopefully, it will be taken by others too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Jun 21 - 12:58 PM

it would have been easier to understand if you had said farage gove johnson


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jun 21 - 12:40 PM

Whilst there have been a few (what appear to me me to be) peculiar decisions, some of which I've been on the sharp end of, I've said it before and I'll say it again: don't berate the moderators over their efforts in tidying up threads. One vexatious post can generate a labyrinthine tidying-up job if there are multiple replies to it and keeping a thread looking sensible under such circumstances is tough. So let's agree to knock off the criticism and be a bit more, er, stoical about it...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jun 21 - 12:29 PM

I’m confident that the person I was responding directly to - Dave the Gnome - understood precisely whom I was referring to. And anyone who didn’t know was perfectly at liberty to ask for clarification, and I would happily have explained. However, personal criticism seldom achieves a satisfactory outcome. Hopefully a lesson learned...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Jun 21 - 12:29 PM

So now the woke organisations are dispensing with the word “mother” and replacing it with “parent who has given birth”? Really? My parent who gave birth is now up in Heaven along with my parent who did not give birth.

Winkie wankie wokies again!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Jos
Date: 04 Jun 21 - 12:26 PM

The problem for me was that I have never looked a haddock in the face, so the comparison didn't work.
I know who looks like a scarecrow and I know which politician came from Scotland, but I assumed the haddock must be Cummings.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Jun 21 - 12:17 PM

i did not recognise who you were describing other than johnson, either, i thought haddock face was patel


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jun 21 - 12:08 PM

I’m sure it disappeared briefly, then reappeared.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 Jun 21 - 11:59 AM

Unless I have missed something, your reply seems to be there at 9:04 AM.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jun 21 - 11:45 AM

It’s extremely frustrating when a post criticising me personally is permitted by the Mods to remain, yet my perfectly civil response is removed. Would it be too much to ask for the Mods to show some common sense and consistency please and, if they are going to remove a response to a post, also remove the post that gave rise to it.

It’s not rocket-science.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Jun 21 - 11:33 AM

You're kidding?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Jun 21 - 10:45 AM

Shut your mouths and eat humble pie remoaners..

The future of brexit Britain is brilliant..

We have now successfully accomplished a major trade deal with Liechtenstein...!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jun 21 - 10:38 AM

Correct, SPB-C. Doesn’t take a degree in Astro-physics to work them out, does it? Just a bit of imagination and a sense of humour - apparently sadly lacking in some forum contributors.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 04 Jun 21 - 09:22 AM

I assume they are faridge, gove and johnson though I do think it is defamatory comparing that wonderful childrens' tv character with that overbloated self-serving liar.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jun 21 - 09:04 AM

And I wish you’d mind your own business Doug. You’re not a Mod, you have no authority around here so, in the interests of keeping the peace, and keeping this thread open, perhaps it would be best if you keep your ‘advice’ to yourself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 Jun 21 - 08:26 AM

Haddock-Face, the Lying Scottish Viper, and Worzel Gummidge in a Saville Row suit

BWM,
I wish you would use names instead of insults. I have a hard enough time following arguments in this mish-mash of a thread, which lumps together so many diverse topics, without having to solve cryptic clues.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 04 Jun 21 - 07:28 AM

What future?????

To be hones the only point of living is just to tick days off on life's calendar, and each day passing being one day left to live.

Let's be honest, we are living in a state that is resembling nazism more and more day by day, even to the state that fascists employed by the home office willingly obey orders in deciding whether people in relationships from different countries should be prevented from diluting the purity of British blood.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jun 21 - 07:24 AM

They may well know that it’s true, Dave, but they’ll never admit it. To do so would be to admit they were fools, bamboozled by the lies and bullshit of Haddock-Face, the Lying Scottish Viper, and Worzel Gummidge in a Saville Row suit - it ain’t gonna happen, is it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jun 21 - 05:39 AM

Very good piece in Yorkshire Bylines

I doubt if even our rabid right supporters will find much to disagree with the opening paragraph

Whether you supported Brexit or not, there’s no doubt that there has been a cost for all of us. Brexit has been the thief in the night that has stolen our vision of the future. For those in favour of close ties with the EU, that relationship has been soured, and our rights diminished. For those that looked forward to a brighter new day, outside of the EU, the view ahead is not quite what was expected, or promised.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 03 Jun 21 - 09:21 AM

Patel and Netanyahu breeding?? The thought of it would put me off my dinner for the rest of my life!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Jun 21 - 04:19 PM

Quite so, Dave. None are so blind as they who will only see what their Tory propaganda machine tells them they must see.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jun 21 - 03:49 PM

Spot on BWM but we will hear no condemnation from our resident BoJo supporters. Nor will we hear any from the main stream meadia. He is not Jeremy Corbyn!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Jun 21 - 03:02 PM

‘Another Angry Voice’ hitting the nail fairly and squarely on the head, on their FB Page today. (C&Pd in order to avoid inadvertently identifying other individuals)...

”Imagine a female politician had 6+ children with at least three different men, and refused to be honest with the public about how many kids she'd actually had.

Imagine she had an affair while her husband was undergoing cancer treatment, and the himbo she was screwing ended up receiving hundreds of thousands of pounds from her government department while the affair was going on, and without the affair ever being registered as one of her interests.

Imagine that this female politician had even been sacked from her own party's front bench for barefaced lying to the party leader about one of her affairs.

And imagine that she wasn't just a serial adulterer, but an inveterate liar, and a disgusting bigot to boot.

It's absolutely unimaginable that a woman like that would make it to Prime Minister. In fact, no matter what her party political affiliation, it's beyond doubt that the tabloid propaganda rags would have absolutely savaged her, using all of the gender-specific armoury of terms used against women who sleep around, and they wouldn't have stopped until they drove her out of public life.

But because the lying, adulterous bigot is their own beloved Boris, who is not just male, but a professional liar from the corporate media hack pack just like they are, they don't just give him a free pass on what they'd be slamming anyone else for, they actively run his propaganda operations for him.

Britain used to be a place where sexual impropriety was frowned upon, and a politician's affair with his secretary was enough for him to resign from public life in disgrace, but now things have tilted so far in the opposite direction that we don't just tolerate serial infidelity and outright dishonesty about it, we've elevated the most notoriously dishonest philanderer in British politics to serve as Prime Minister of the nation.

And it's absolutely impossible to imagine that such a dishonest and adulterous figure would have achieved this kind of political success if they'd been female.”


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Jun 21 - 08:41 AM

bibi? I mean
Bebe and Bobo too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Jun 21 - 08:31 AM

I'm betting on flying pigs. I think Bibi will go.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Jun 21 - 03:51 AM

It would be very gratifying if both Patel and her bosom-buddy Netanyahu got booted out of politics so that they could spend more time together and were doing no further harm. Pigs might fly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 01 Jun 21 - 02:26 AM

"Returning to UK politics, does anyone have any theories why Cummings's seven-hour marathon a) flattered Sunak, or b) didn't mention Gove at all?"

I guess because he has not fallen out with them, yet.


The Observer reported that the commitee was going to ask Cummings for proof about his comments on Hancock before Hancock appears before them. For all that he said, Cummings would appear to have offered up no evidence to back up his claims. We are living in strange times. He said they said etc.,including whoever briefed The Observer on this particular story.


"I predict priti patel will be next leaderof the conservatives"

That made me laugh, though if it ever happens i will probably cry.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 May 21 - 11:30 PM

If I die of a pandemic or a global pandemic..

I'll feel a lot better now I know the difference...


So then, back to British politics today, in our single permitted thread..

.. hopefully, if it's ok with our American mod friends...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nS45xUYiEZY


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 May 21 - 07:34 PM

Thing is, Maggie, if you say pandemic it means one thing. If you say global pandemic, it means something different. I may have blotted my copybook here, but do consult any dictionary you like. If you want want pandemic to mean all over the world, then the qualifier "global" is rather necessary...

No fight intended, just clarity...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 May 21 - 07:27 PM

I must abjectly apologise for that last post. I didn't scroll far enough back to see that my post was still there. It's been a long day and I haven't been keeping up very well. I'm sorry, Jeri. I'll do better in future... :-(


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 May 21 - 07:22 PM

Jeri has removed a perfectly civil post of mine which stated that the term pandemic was appropriate, according to multiple dictionaries, for a disease that occurred in considerable quantity across multiple nations in a region such as the continent of Africa. That was a civil response to her acerbic attack on Geoff, incorrectly asserting that he had misused the word pandemic. I also stated my opinion, equally civilly, that the flu pandemic of 2018 was recent enough for us to take lessons from, and that this country had failed to take the lesson that we should be prepared, as a nation, for sudden pandemics. That was the gist of my post and I have no idea why Jeri should have removed it. I do take time over my posts and I think I deserve slightly better treatment than this. This post will be copied in case it gets deleted again. There is a definite problem here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 May 21 - 03:20 PM

Not to quibble about the horrific severity of ebola, but it spread across a region of the continent - it didn't spread from Egypt to South Africa, it spread across a sub-Saharan swath:

The Ebola virus causes an acute, serious illness which is often fatal if untreated. EVD first appeared in 1976 in 2 simultaneous outbreaks, one in what is now Nzara, South Sudan, and the other in Yambuku, DRC. The latter occurred in a village near the Ebola River, from which the disease takes its name.

The 2014–2016 outbreak in West Africa was the largest Ebola outbreak since the virus was first discovered in 1976. The outbreak started in Guinea and then moved across land borders to Sierra Leone and Liberia.


A few cases jumped across the ocean and were caught. It wasn't a global pandemic. Everyone around the globe understands "pandemic" when discussing experiences with SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19).


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Geoff Wallis
Date: 31 May 21 - 01:49 PM

'Ebola was an "Outbreak" in a few countries. Nasty as it was, it didn't spread all over the place.'

Yes it did, if one counts the whole continent of Africa as 'all over the place'.


WHO - Ebola


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 May 21 - 01:15 PM

Are some Americans getting a bit bored with their own threads today...?????


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 May 21 - 01:02 PM

As someone with an "Excellent" level ability to search the internet,

An outbreak is called an epidemic when there is a sudden increase in cases. As COVID-19 began spreading in Wuhan, China, it became an epidemic. Because the disease then spread across several countries and affected a large number of people, it was classified as a pandemic. From the much-battered Centers for Disease Control (CDC).

Ebola was an "Outbreak" in a few countries. Nasty as it was, it didn't spread all over the place.

  • Epidemic: Sudden increase in cases of a disease.

  • Epidemiology: Study of disease and other health outcomes, their causes in a population, and how they can be controlled.

  • Outbreak: A higher-­than-expected number of occurrences of disease in a specific location and time.

  • Pandemic: Event in which a disease spreads across several countries and affects a large number of people.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 31 May 21 - 12:58 PM

This video is of relevance.

I do not think the "nuances" mean we disregard the first few sentences. I interpret them as meaning that we can choose things to help the economy within the constraint of the first sentences.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: gnu
Date: 31 May 21 - 12:57 PM

John Stewart on Scottish independence... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YkLPxQp_y0


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 31 May 21 - 12:46 PM

Ah, so "it is just simplistic to say that there is a trade-off between the economy and health" actually means "Of course we think there is a trade off".


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 31 May 21 - 11:59 AM

It seems that the Evening Standard headline disagrees with me.
The actual quote in the article is a little more nuanced:
“It is just simplistic to say that there is a trade-off between the economy and health. A second spike would be hugely damaging to the economy. Of course, there are arguments over timing.

“But ... things are moving in the right direction, that is why we are able to say that coronavirus is in retreat.”


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Geoff Wallis
Date: 31 May 21 - 11:50 AM

Thanks, Steve.

As someone who actually has 'O' level Greek and, more importantly, worked on public health strategy in central London for several years, I'm well aware of the meaning of pandemic, unlike Jeri it seems.

Literally, it means the whole (or all the) people. It does not have to apply to the entire world population, but can be used to refer to a continent or a bloc of countries.

My point in raising the issue was that there is more than just one pandemic currently affecting the health of a people at this present time. The Cemtral and West African outbreaks of the Ebola virus in 2014-2016 were rightly termed a pandemic because of the large number of people affected. For the record, Ebola virus disease has a fatality rate of 50%, somewhat higher than the Covid-19 mortality rate.

Apologies for diverting this thread.

Returning to UK politics, does anyone have any theories why Cummings's seven-hour marathon a) flattered Sunak, or b) didn't mention Gove at all?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 31 May 21 - 11:30 AM

Evening Standard on 8th June 2020:
Matt Hancock insisted “there just isn’t a trade-off” between the economy and health as he unveiled his plans to protect social care services.

The Health Secretary denied there was any trade-off between protecting the economy and protecting health as the government gradually eases lockdown restrictions.


Seems he disagrees with you, Nigel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 May 21 - 11:24 AM

Nigel - basically your reply is far too reminiscent of the standard denial mode
of American anti gun control apologists and lobbyists...


"Once more. Boris Johnson's decisions didn't kill anyone. Covid did."

.. well covid couldn't have had a more helpful sidekick and enabler than boris on it's British homeland mass killing spree...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 31 May 21 - 11:00 AM

ok.. How many British citizens did Brown's decisions kill...???

Even h1tler couldn't compete with boris for as many British civilian deaths...


Once more. Boris Johnson's decisions didn't kill anyone. Covid did.
It is arguable that more may have been saved if Boris had made different decisions, but it is also likely we will never know.
Boris is attempting to balance the protection of human life (or even just delaying deaths to protect the NHS) with protecting the UK as a viable economy.
He also has to look at deaths caused (indirectly) by lockdown etc. causing missed diagnoses of terminal illnesses.

Boris is not perfect, but he is handling a job for which few others would wish to take the responsibility.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 May 21 - 09:27 AM

ok.. How many British citizens did Brown's decisions kill...???

Even h1tler couldn't compete with boris for as many British civilian deaths...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 May 21 - 09:26 AM

If HIV-Aids occurs on a considerable scale across multiple countries within the continent of Africa, then the term pandemic is perfectly appropriate. And I checked that across mulitiple dictionaries. The flu outbreak of 1918 is recent enough for us still to take lessons from. Being properly prepared as a nation for a sudden pandemic is a lesson we should have learned but didn't.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 31 May 21 - 08:42 AM

Compare alleged "crazy political decisions" of this government with "crazy political decisions" of last labour government!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 May 21 - 08:16 AM

.. and not forgetting we survived "Mad Cow Disease" in our lifetime...

.. how many undiagnosed cases of that might explain all the crazy political decisions
of the last decade or so...!!!????


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 31 May 21 - 03:44 AM

It is off topic, I am afraid, but DtG's question raises an interesting question. In terms of medical knowledge and ability to cure illnesses, is WW1 closer to Ancient Greece than it is to today? I think a case could be made.

But I won't here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 May 21 - 02:41 AM

Yes, Jeri. WW1 is recent history as opposed to ancient history.


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