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BS: Brexit & other UK political topics

The Sandman 02 Jul 21 - 05:37 AM
G-Force 02 Jul 21 - 05:10 AM
DMcG 02 Jul 21 - 05:05 AM
Backwoodsman 02 Jul 21 - 04:23 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Jul 21 - 03:51 AM
The Sandman 02 Jul 21 - 03:43 AM
SPB-Cooperator 01 Jul 21 - 11:37 AM
Backwoodsman 01 Jul 21 - 08:39 AM
DMcG 30 Jun 21 - 02:45 PM
Nigel Parsons 30 Jun 21 - 12:54 PM
DMcG 30 Jun 21 - 09:51 AM
punkfolkrocker 30 Jun 21 - 09:49 AM
The Sandman 30 Jun 21 - 09:29 AM
Backwoodsman 30 Jun 21 - 08:26 AM
punkfolkrocker 30 Jun 21 - 08:14 AM
punkfolkrocker 30 Jun 21 - 08:11 AM
Dave the Gnome 30 Jun 21 - 06:53 AM
Jos 30 Jun 21 - 04:40 AM
Rain Dog 30 Jun 21 - 03:00 AM
Backwoodsman 30 Jun 21 - 02:16 AM
punkfolkrocker 29 Jun 21 - 09:59 PM
DMcG 29 Jun 21 - 05:31 PM
DMcG 29 Jun 21 - 05:30 PM
Dave the Gnome 29 Jun 21 - 12:38 PM
DMcG 29 Jun 21 - 05:34 AM
Dave the Gnome 29 Jun 21 - 05:25 AM
Dave the Gnome 29 Jun 21 - 05:22 AM
Steve Shaw 29 Jun 21 - 05:13 AM
DMcG 29 Jun 21 - 04:19 AM
DMcG 29 Jun 21 - 03:38 AM
The Sandman 29 Jun 21 - 03:11 AM
DMcG 29 Jun 21 - 03:01 AM
DMcG 29 Jun 21 - 03:00 AM
robomatic 28 Jun 21 - 03:22 PM
robomatic 28 Jun 21 - 03:21 PM
punkfolkrocker 28 Jun 21 - 12:03 PM
The Sandman 28 Jun 21 - 05:17 AM
Steve Shaw 27 Jun 21 - 06:49 PM
punkfolkrocker 27 Jun 21 - 06:01 PM
Bonzo3legs 27 Jun 21 - 05:57 PM
DMcG 27 Jun 21 - 05:55 PM
Backwoodsman 27 Jun 21 - 05:23 PM
Raggytash 27 Jun 21 - 03:54 PM
Bonzo3legs 27 Jun 21 - 03:05 PM
robomatic 27 Jun 21 - 02:42 PM
Jos 27 Jun 21 - 02:14 PM
DMcG 27 Jun 21 - 02:07 PM
Dave the Gnome 27 Jun 21 - 01:43 PM
DMcG 23 Jun 21 - 12:09 PM
Raggytash 22 Jun 21 - 05:17 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Jul 21 - 05:37 AM

Tory vote percentage was DOWN compared with the previous election in 2019. NOT a good vote for the Tories whatever spin and lies they are spouting on the BBC breakfast programme.
The Labour vote was split by George Galloway.
If you add the Labour 35.2% plus the Galloway 21.9% (and don't include the Liberals) it totals up to 57% of the vote being Anti-Tory.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: G-Force
Date: 02 Jul 21 - 05:10 AM

And the 'Rejoin EU' candidate got 75 votes!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Jul 21 - 05:05 AM

I feel the result of the Batley and Spen bye-election is very difficult to draw conclusions from. I have seen a lot of comment from the Conservative side pointing out a margin or around 300 votes in a historically Labour seat is a bad sign, but that, deliberately or otherwise, ignores Galloway and his stated objective of splitting the Labour vote. If he had not done that, the margin would be substantially greater.

On the other hand, Hancock's Half Hour and some support for Leadbeater because of Jo's murder will have played a part, and that only needs to have shifted the opinion of a few hundred to alter the result.

My feeling is that there will be a lot of special pleading on both sides and drawing any firm conclusion is risky.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Jul 21 - 04:23 AM

I strongly suspect that the result of the Batley & Spen By-Election is a message to the Labour Party’s membership to stop fighting each other, and to unite to fight the real enemy - the worst Populist Tory government any of us can remember - and do what they exist for - to represent the interests of ordinary people. We need a Labour Party than can get elected, not a bloody debating society for dogmatists to slug it out with one another over Labour ideology.

IMHO, of course, and YMMV.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jul 21 - 03:51 AM

Sadly my daughter in law was beaten by 10 votes in her bid to become a Labour councillor in Stoke :-( With the hurdles thrown at her by both the Tories and the right wing of the local Labour party she still did remarkably well and I am proud of both her for going for it and of my son for the help and hard work.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Jul 21 - 03:43 AM

Labour's Kim Leadbeater has pulled off a surprise victory in the Batley and Spen by-election.

It had been expected that Tory challenger Ryan Stephenson would defeat Ms Leadbeater, sister of the murdered MP Jo Cox, after one of the most bitterly-fought parliamentary by-election campaigns in living memory.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 01 Jul 21 - 11:37 AM

My Czech partner has told be that the Czech government may be about to put in place a travel ban between the Czech Republic and UK. on the feeble basis that new cases in Cr are 158 per day, and approximately 28,000/day in UK.

This does not provide grounds for victimising ordinary people as the high numbers are due 100% to the actions of Boris Johnson.

The borders must be kept open, and is that results in the variant that originated in India spreading through the rest of Europe like wildfire, then t will be nobodies fault expect for Johnson and the s**m who voted tory.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Jul 21 - 08:39 AM

So, to get away from the dietary advice nonsense and its attendant trolling, and back to UK politics, here’s an interesting piece from today’s New European discussing the Populist nature of our current PM’s politics, and the fragility of his tenure in the job.

Fingers crossed that it’s correct in its conclusion, and Johnson’s monstrous rule comes to an end quickly, and soon…


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 30 Jun 21 - 02:45 PM

I agree that the number of deaths is sufficiently small that you cannot really determine a trend. As we stand a single death occurring an hour after midnight that might have occurred an hour before is enough to substantially alter the analysis.

And that is a good thing, because it emphasises how deaths are.

Hospitalizations are, unfortunately, a different story. While the figures remain low compared to earlier dates, there is a clear upward trend that looks as if it is accelerating. It needs close monitoring.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 30 Jun 21 - 12:54 PM

Yes, publish the data.
That does not mean they should hijack a large portion of the nightly news to try to persuade the public not to go about their normal lives.
Of course, there are other items which are still given priority over showing the figures, such as football ;)
But show the whole of the figures, and put them in proportion.
The current daily death rate from Covid seems to be climbing (from 0 on 1 June to 23 on 29th, but the gradient looks pretty good since March 15th) Here

But somehow, we rarely see the long term graphs except when figures are rising steeply, and the government want to "instil more caution", such a graph is Here for weekly deaths in England and Wales and seems to show that the death rate is following annual trends (at present).
In fact a note following the graph states that:
There were 9459 deaths registered in England and Wales for the week ending June 18, 2021, fewer than the average for this week between 2015 and 2019, and a signal of the improving Coronavirus situation in the UK.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 30 Jun 21 - 09:51 AM

Government resists Tory MPs’ calls to scrap ‘fearful’ daily Covid figures

They should publish the figures, of course. But since Javid got the health post I have been anticipating they will be dropped - shortly after 19 July, perhaps.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Jun 21 - 09:49 AM

Dick - that's fair enough..

Like Steve, my post is of perhaps more relevance towards some of our overseas pals.

It's maybe no coincidence that the online medical and therapy self help groups my sister dedicated herself to,
seemed to be mainly American..

Which is where she finally gravitated towards..
Travelling to the USA to stay with online friends I suspect involved in kind of cult-like activity..

.. And was found dead in mysterious circumstances in a desert region motel..

My mother's savings being drained in the process...

Local coroner and law enforcement quickly decided there were no problems, and closed the case..

I certainly felt unwelcome when trying to talk to them on the phone..


..nah.. can't have been just because I'm a Brit...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Jun 21 - 09:29 AM

yes i am wary of self appointed amateur medical specialists too. which was why i said
i would advise everyone see a professional conventional doctor or a professional herbal doctor. however professionals include alternative medicine acu puncture etc.
incidentally about weight watchers quote
Weight Watchers isn't a medical organization and we can't give you medical advice. We strongly urge you to consult with your physician (or primary health-care provider) before starting any weight loss plan.    weight watchers are not professional medical specilists


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Jun 21 - 08:26 AM

That’s a very sad story, pfr. Having had to deal, for many years, with a close relative who suffered paranoid schizophrenia, and another with very serious addiction, I feel for you and your family.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Jun 21 - 08:14 AM

now back...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Jun 21 - 08:11 AM

I'm clearing out my mum's house now that she's in a care home.

Bookcases are full of reader's digest and similar populist medical textbooks.
Plus thick encyclopaedias of medications..

All this confirms my suspicions such a superficial grasp of this kind of knowledge
fueled and exacerbated my sister's mental health problems..

She started as a fairly normal teenager training for st John's ambulance certificates..

But problems started to become apparent in her later teens.

She could very expertly pull the wool over the eyes of examining doctors and specialists,
by feigning the correct symptoms they needed to observe for diagnosis.

She became a very crafty hypochondriac,
suffering all kinds of rare and trendy conditions.

This provided her status and power in online self-help and therapy groups.

At worse I believe she developed Munchausen syndrome.
All her pets suffered rare and exotic illnesses needing very expensive veterinary treatment, which he could document in log books and online diaries.

Again providing her with elite expert status in online forums for vulnerable health obsessives.

I'm quite certain she also controlled and abused my mother's life with emergency call outs to ambulances,
for what my sister diagnosed as strokes while my mother was asleep.
My sister being the only witness, giving medical teams articulate descriptions of the textbook symptoms..

There's far more to this story than I divulge now..

For these reasons I am also very wary of self-appointed amateur medical specialists...

No back to British politics and taking the piss out of brexiteers...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Jun 21 - 06:53 AM

suggests going to a PROFESIONAL , yes , but professional GPs are overworked and under pressure

So you think we would get better advice off a folk singer?

Dave the gnome used to be considerably overweight, but i believe since he took up cycling he has lost weight

No, no, no. Once again you are not in possesion of the full facts. I always cycled, hiked and swam even when I was obese. I have lost over 4 stone with WW. Still about 20lb to go but that will go this year.

did he need professional advice?

YES I MOST CERTAINLY DID, AND LOTS OF IT!

Now, can we get back to UK politics please?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Jos
Date: 30 Jun 21 - 04:40 AM

I am not interested enough to spend an hour and a half watching football, but my son has just told me that during the match Wills and Kate were shown jumping up and down with delight and waving their arms in the air.
This morning he watched a number of news broadcasts, all of which showed the royal couple clapping demurely, in a calm and dignified manner.
He believes that the images are being controlled, either by the media or by the palace itself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 30 Jun 21 - 03:00 AM

Come off it pfr.
We all know that it was Boris what won it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Jun 21 - 02:16 AM

LOL, pfr!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Jun 21 - 09:59 PM

I ordered a powered speaker off Amazon.
Opened the box, and it's a bloody 2 pin Euro plug..

Don't they know there's a brexit going on...!!!???

Millions of patriotic born and bred British heroes
voted with a historic decisive victory over traiter to the nation remoaners,
to keep out this kind of foreign threat to our sovereignty...

Btw.. My sound advice is never eat continental food.
It will sap your British vitality, make you sterile,
and your skin go an unhealthy olive colour,
and in worse cases you'll turn transexual..

That is a fact confirmed by British facebook experts.

British 3 pin plugs and food first, and forever...

We showed the Germans once again on the hallowed battle field of Wembley.
Eleven true English men raised eating a pure healthy diet of holy Albion pies and mash
will never be defeated...!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Jun 21 - 05:31 PM

Autocorrections again!

I expected a stronger set of conditions ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Jun 21 - 05:30 PM

Now to return to Brexit and UK politics!

The Independent is reporting:
The EU will reportedly force the UK to agree to “conditions” as both sides edge towards a truce averting a so-called “sausage war” with a temporary extension to defer a ban on shipments of chilled meat.

An eleventh-hour agreement will come just hours ahead of the expiration of the grace period on 1 July, which would have prevented shipments of the products from Great Britain to Northern Ireland.

===
I thought something like this would happen, but I did expect a str I never set of conditions, along the lines of demonstrable progress from the UK that it was implementing what it agreed. In these early reports, that does not seem to be the case. But we should see tomorrow, perhaps.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Jun 21 - 12:38 PM

It isn't appropriate to give dietary advice to someone you do not know anything about. You may, for instance, advise someone to eat more nuts, not knowing they have an allergy. Giving advice in ignorance of all the facts is foolish. Relating what works for you is a different matter.


Yards and yards of posts with medical bickering have been removed. The party who complained to this mudelf about a personal insult is the one who set it off, so there isn't a lot of sympathy here. Don't Feed the Trolls and/or Don't Be a Troll. ---mudelf


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Jun 21 - 05:34 AM

(Make your own eyesight joke now...)

Yes, I had to have my ears syringed recently for that sort of price. While there the nurse told me of a patient whose was problem is so severe he needs to come in every six months. At around £100 a time, that is a lot of cash to find.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Jun 21 - 05:25 AM

Opticians is the more common spelling of course...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Jun 21 - 05:22 AM

Ear syringing is no longer available on the NHS either. Our local optitions do it for £100 or Specsavers do it for £55.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Jun 21 - 05:13 AM

About two years ago I had a large sebaceous cyst on my shoulder that was constantly prone to bursting (and coming back). I was flabbergasted to be told by my GP that he couldn't deal with it under the NHS. He gave me the number of a private clinic. I rang them. They offered me a half-hour appointment (which included "counselling") with no guarantee of success. £450.

I sorted it myself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Jun 21 - 04:19 AM

I suppose I should reveal my hand after that.

My wife has osteoarthritis. She has had both hips and both knees replaced. One operation was on the NHS, three we paid for privately, primarily because of the length of the waiting lists.

When Johnson became Prime Minister, I took out private health insurance for myself for the first time in my life, because my trust in the government is that low. Even in Thatcher's time, I did not consider private health insurance.

Naturally, the cost of private health care for my wife is totally prohibitive so she is not covered.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Jun 21 - 03:38 AM

I may have said this before here, as I have certainly said it in a few places, but I will repeat myself if I have. No matter.

Talk of selling off the NHS is unwise. I do not think the Conservatives would do anything so crude. But they don't have to. All they have to do is ensure that for those who can afford it private medicine is the preferred route. There are all sorts of ways this can happen: allow the waiting lists to grow and grow. Restrict the range of operations on the NHS (eg varicose veins are no longer available on the NHS. I think they dropped around 35 such things not long ago.) Restrict the criteria for access ("BMI over 35? Sorry, no treatment until you get it down. Obesity is a health risk and we need to atop it")

All of those are happening at the moment (and were all pre-covid, by the way.)


Next, paint those who take out private healthcare as patriots, for reducing the waiting lists for the NHS. Such selfless people.

Next, think about tax relief for individuals with private healthcare. After all, if they are not using the NHS, it is fair they don't pay as much for it, isn't it?

They do not stress that reduces the NHS funds, so makes things like waiting lists worse, but it does. Which of course makes the private more appealing, and more go private, leading to whittling down the NHS further.

And yet, they could still boast that the NHS exists and is free at the point of use. So it has not been "sold."

If you look at the reports from private healthcare companies for the year before covid struck, they reported a boom in the self-pay sector. I.e. those without health insurance but paying for a private operation directly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Jun 21 - 03:11 AM

javid has outside interests which include private medicine.
this is a little like giving a job to a thief to guard the crown jewels

Sajid Javid is the new Secretary of State for Health and Social Care.

Alongside being an MP, last year Javid was hired as a paid senior advisor to the US bank JP Morgan.

JP Morgan is a major player in private healthcare.

The NHS isn't safe in the Conservatives' hands.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Jun 21 - 03:01 AM

Before I am picked up on it, when I said "every case occupies a hospital bed", I meant of course "every hospitalisation occupies a bed"


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Jun 21 - 03:00 AM

Chart for UK cases on 29 June 2021

Javid's speeches yesterday put him firmly on the side of dates rather than data. He committed very strongly to removing as many restrictions as possible on 19th July and living with the consequences.

Such bravado could very easily cause him a huge headache. Even though the numbers are lower than before, it would be foolish to think the number of hospitalisations is independent of the number of cases, and every case occupies a hospital bed for a comparatively long time (many operations, such as my wife's knee replacement earlier this week) occupy beds for two or three days. Covid-19 hospitalisation is longer. The chart I took a snapshot of and linked to above shows the UK is not doing well controlling the delta variant, and relaxing in a few weeks if we have not got this under control looks very unwise from a data viewpoint.

He is also gambling that a new variant will not emerge that has worse statistics than delta.

SO he could very easily find himself in the nearish future - say before the end of the year - having to decide whether to eat humble and pie and actually reverse the irreversible, or to be held personally accountable for any deaths etc arising from this hypothetical variant.

In essence, he has already gambled his future that such a variant will not appear. JH, and the rest of us, may be lucky.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: robomatic
Date: 28 Jun 21 - 03:22 PM

That was supposed to be:

WWC(hurchill)D?

but I butterfingered it (Yes, I made 'butterfinger' a verb. I went there).


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: robomatic
Date: 28 Jun 21 - 03:21 PM

WWC(hurchill)?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Jun 21 - 12:03 PM

Dick - the same reason fleas, lice, and ticks
don't voluntarily leave their warm-blooded host victims...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Jun 21 - 05:17 AM

why dont the whole cabinet resign


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jun 21 - 06:49 PM

And now Dom Cummings is claiming that 'twas Carrie who got the "bog-standard" Sadge appointed. Heheh...

I'll swear that I read somewhere that the camera was embedded in the room's smoke alarm...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jun 21 - 06:01 PM

Why does BBC persist in calling it "Kissing",
when it was a full on teenage disco snog and arse grope.. at their age...???

Tory party now deep in debate on best ways to monetise the full sex tape...£££


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Jun 21 - 05:57 PM

Of course he was!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Jun 21 - 05:55 PM

One of the things I thought interesting is that while Hancock said those who make the rules must abide by them, there is not a thing in Johnson's reply to say he agrees. In fact, though he accepts the resignation there is nothing in his response to suggest he thought it right to resign.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Jun 21 - 05:23 PM

He may not have been sacked (for the aforementioned reasons), but I’d bet a pound to a pinch of snuff that he was ‘resigned’.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Jun 21 - 03:54 PM

Johnson could not have sacked Hancock for having an extramarital affair ............. how could he sack someone for doing exactly the same as himself on numerous occasions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Jun 21 - 03:05 PM

Just as I suspected, hancock' s brains are in his pant's!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: robomatic
Date: 27 Jun 21 - 02:42 PM

Do we know more about the who and how of camera placement in Hancock's work environment. As in, has this been happening right along and could it be a factor in various decisions in officialdom?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Jos
Date: 27 Jun 21 - 02:14 PM

I can't help suspecting that rather than Hancock having now 'left' his wife, she may have kicked him out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Jun 21 - 02:07 PM

I think Matt Hancock should have been sacked, although I can cope with his resignation. Nothing to do with the affair, I should add, but for the breach of rules (And I would like these other offences taken into account, m'lud)

I am not at all convinced Javid will be a good health minister, but the choices available were somewhat limited.

The first serious thing to judge him on is who he appoints as head of NHS England. Serial-disaster Dido would be a really bad sign.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jun 21 - 01:43 PM

What do we think of Hat Mancock then?

(For the pedantic and those who cannot figure these things out, I am referring to the health secretary 's resignation)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Jun 21 - 12:09 PM

The return of roaming charges?

It will be interesting to see if O2 backs down, or the other providers follow them in restoring charges.

I remember being assured in posts to earlier versions of this thread that this was another unfounded 'Project Fear'-style claim.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Jun 21 - 05:17 PM

Yes Dick he is. But that has no place ,even if it were relevant, on the one thread we're allowed about UK politics.


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