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Apache recorded 60 years ago!

Steve Shaw 20 Jun 20 - 06:02 AM
GUEST,Guest 20 Jun 20 - 06:03 AM
Bonzo3legs 20 Jun 20 - 06:14 AM
Backwoodsman 20 Jun 20 - 06:32 AM
GUEST,Roger 20 Jun 20 - 06:45 AM
The Sandman 20 Jun 20 - 08:01 AM
GUEST,Martin Ryan 20 Jun 20 - 08:05 AM
gillymor 20 Jun 20 - 09:12 AM
The Sandman 20 Jun 20 - 09:19 AM
GUEST,Roderick A. Warner 20 Jun 20 - 09:23 AM
andrew e 20 Jun 20 - 09:58 AM
GUEST,Martin Ryan 20 Jun 20 - 11:40 AM
punkfolkrocker 20 Jun 20 - 12:37 PM
Bonzo3legs 20 Jun 20 - 03:33 PM
punkfolkrocker 20 Jun 20 - 03:48 PM
GUEST,Roger 20 Jun 20 - 06:57 PM
Bonzo3legs 20 Jun 20 - 07:03 PM
The Sandman 21 Jun 20 - 01:24 AM
Manitas_at_home 21 Jun 20 - 01:47 AM
The Sandman 21 Jun 20 - 01:59 AM
GUEST,Rossey 21 Jun 20 - 02:29 AM
The Sandman 21 Jun 20 - 04:48 AM
GUEST,Rossey 21 Jun 20 - 05:08 AM
peteglasgow 21 Jun 20 - 05:11 AM
Dave the Gnome 21 Jun 20 - 05:29 AM
The Sandman 21 Jun 20 - 05:31 AM
Bonzo3legs 21 Jun 20 - 06:15 AM
The Sandman 21 Jun 20 - 07:45 AM
Bonzo3legs 21 Jun 20 - 07:54 AM
Backwoodsman 21 Jun 20 - 08:17 AM
Bonzo3legs 21 Jun 20 - 08:46 AM
Backwoodsman 21 Jun 20 - 09:23 AM
Steve Shaw 21 Jun 20 - 11:53 AM
punkfolkrocker 21 Jun 20 - 12:00 PM
Bonzo3legs 21 Jun 20 - 12:19 PM
gillymor 21 Jun 20 - 12:42 PM
punkfolkrocker 21 Jun 20 - 12:47 PM
Backwoodsman 21 Jun 20 - 01:06 PM
Bonzo3legs 21 Jun 20 - 01:11 PM
Bonzo3legs 21 Jun 20 - 01:16 PM
Backwoodsman 21 Jun 20 - 01:30 PM
punkfolkrocker 21 Jun 20 - 01:32 PM
punkfolkrocker 21 Jun 20 - 02:42 PM
Dave the Gnome 21 Jun 20 - 02:47 PM
Bonzo3legs 21 Jun 20 - 03:27 PM
Backwoodsman 21 Jun 20 - 03:39 PM
punkfolkrocker 21 Jun 20 - 03:40 PM
Bonzo3legs 21 Jun 20 - 04:30 PM
JHW 21 Jun 20 - 04:50 PM
Tattie Bogle 21 Jun 20 - 05:39 PM
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 06:02 AM

"I wonder if that geezer with the gob iron got his 'tache caught in it?"

Well, as a 'tache-sporting gob iron player, I can tell you that nothing makes you fly into an eye-wateringly painful rage more than getting a moustache hair caught in the gob iron cover plate. The only solution is to keep the lower edge of the 'tache trimmed to no less than 7.835mm above the start of the fleshy part of the top lip. This also serves to prevent bits of kipper from getting caught in the hairs. Hope this helps.


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 06:03 AM

Dick,to quote from your post at 1.28am today.
You must learn to tolerate different opinion,whatever you think of The Shadows and their version of Apache,others like it.
Your personal likes and dislikes are not superior to other peoples likes,just different whatever your ego tells you to the contrary.


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 06:14 AM

Ah Billy Strings has incredible flying fingers, he has duetted with Molly Tuttle! Terry Gibson of the Downliners Sect was very fast too back in 1964 time. Also, Colin Green who played lead on Czardas by Nero & the Gladiators was amazingly fast!


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 06:32 AM

And I forgot my schooldays-friend’s cousin, Paul Brett - a great player and composer, 12-string wizard, studio session-musician, and member of numerous successful bands including The Crazy World of Arthur Brown, Lonnie Donegan’s band, The Overlanders, and of course Paul Brett’s Sage.


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: GUEST,Roger
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 06:45 AM

Thank you Steve. That gives a new meaning to the word precision.
Must be a bugger to measure.
Roger.


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 08:01 AM

i never said that it was not ok to like anybody.
i gave my opinion. as jerry, said they are of their time. just like pepsodent toothpaste spaghetti in tins and procea sliced bread, and orange jubblies
do they stand the test of time ?, the drummer is unimaginative , the dance routine dated and timid,the guitar playing rstrained and repetitive, no improvisation,nopassion souless
can you imagine hank burning the star spangled banner while playing apache,[the apaches were a native usa tribe cleared off the lands by white settlers]
we have a title apache, yet the instrumental has no resemblance to native indian music
it sounds as if it is being played by white middle class strait laced acoountants from penge or south cheam, that is my opinion.
if you want a fanzine hero worship thread make it clear in the title, admirers of shadows only,
i am happy that you like them, we do not all have to like the same thing , but i have a right to say that i disagree and find their music dated, furthermore it is my opinion it does not stand the test of time   it is unadventurous and unimaginative


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 08:05 AM

A few years ago, singing with our local choir, I found myself singing one part of a rather nice Latin hymn called “Laudate Dominum”. There wasn't much of a text beyond that phrase - but the melody seemed familiar ... Yep - it was the “Apache” riff, near as dammit!

Regards


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: gillymor
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 09:12 AM

Nobody here seems to object to you having an opinion, Sandman, what's objectionable is your strenuous efforts to force it on every one else.


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 09:19 AM

i am explining why do not like it, and then explaining my criticism. we do not all have to like the same thing.
Adults who are not puerile, understand this, and realise on a musical forum, aimed at folk afficianados , there is a likelihood that some popular music may not be to everyones taste.
if you want a a fanzine and hero worship thread start it and make it clear no criticism of the shadows is allowed.
music is about styles,IT IS ABOUT PASSION EXPRESSION
   comparing different clips illustrates different STYLES ways of playing,
if it means your boyhood heroes are diminished by someone who has a different OPINION tough, get over it.it is only an opinion,


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: GUEST,Roderick A. Warner
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 09:23 AM

I know that a lot of musicians credit the Shadows as a gateway which is fair enough. But I agree with Dick, tbh, for me they were pretty lame at the time, couldn’t have imagined buying one of their records when I was saving up for jazz records. The guitars I was listening to were in the mighty hands of Wes Montgomery, Jim Hall, Kenny Burrell et al. Took me a while to get into blues because jazz seemed so much more accomplished (until I saw the lineage more clearly). The Shadows always seemed on a par with other novelty records of the time. When I moved from piano to learning guitar it was similar to Dick, maybe, via people like Dave Evans, then Bert Jansch etc down at Cousins and beyond. For me, the Shadows existed on a level similar to the music hall extension that trad jazz was, except performed by younger, more wholesome lads. White bread indeed.
Point of this is it’s just my opinion, which for once agrees with Dick. What other people believe will be different - I’ve no interest in trying to tell others what to believe. I leave that to the retrodogmatics of all stripes. As for selling lots of records - so did Ken Dodd, bless him.


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: andrew e
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 09:58 AM

Jet Harris's drummer was a bit more Rocky.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sk8H1aKABvs

Guest Martyn Ryan. What was that Laudate Dominum piece you sang?
I'm a choir director, would like one of my choirs to sing it! Yes, we just got going again after months of lockdown, Qld, Australia.


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 11:40 AM

Andrew e

I’ll check my files to see if I still have a copy ...

Regards


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 12:37 PM

Dick - a reasonable person would state their opinion in a reasonable manner..

A reasonable person would have some sensible self-awareness
and become embarrassed,
if they realised they were behaving as petty and anti sociably as you are here...

All you are doing is repetitively spamming the thread
with your egotistical bloated sense of self-importance..

Most of what you insist on repeating multiple times over.
is blindingly obvious to any of us
who have decades of understanding of popular music culture..

Yes, the Shadows were not trying to be the Jimi Hendrix Experience..

Who ever said they were..

We don't need telling processed cheese triangles are not the same as mature farmhouse Cheddar..

WE don't care, too many of us enjoyed both...!!!

You are not impressing us with your superior expert knowledge and taste,
Far from it, dick...

You are just coming across to the rest of us as a puffed up wind bag snob..

You obviously care so little for your personal public reputation,
or are too blinded by your own false sense of brilliance,
that you can't see what a immature nuisance you are being...


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 03:33 PM

Absolutely.


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 03:48 PM

Bonz - cheers.. this thread prompted me to ask Alexa for Screaming Lord Sutch...

I don't think I ever took him seriously enough to be bothered
buying and listening to his LPs...

One of his tracks with Jimmy Page "Flashing Lights" is my new favourite for this weekend...


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: GUEST,Roger
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 06:57 PM

I love all forms of music, folk music, blues, jazz, classical, opera, you name it. It all has value to the person who listens to it, and yes, I liked the Shads and still do.
I kind of fell out with the folk scene some years ago, the reason? Too many people with their heads up their own arses.
If the cap fits, wear it.
There.
Said my piece.
Roger.


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 07:03 PM

Hank did fluff a couple of notes in the final take that made the single, and the current tribute bands like the excellent Rapiers reproduce them!! Incidentally the Rapiers do a very good Johnny Kidd & the Pirates set!


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 01:24 AM

although in 1964 i had discovered through stefan grossman and john pearse , melody pickers like john hurt, and blues guitarists like robert johnson, for me those guys and their instrumentals andsoony tery and brownie mcghee were more inspiring than the shadows
but to me hank looked like an anorak and they were even then strait laced and safe.
and in retrospect and two years later in 1966 i saw jimi hendrix , the shadows in comparison were safe relatively unimaginative and straitlaced and unadventurous ,what young person today would choose the shadows instrumentals above jimi hendrix
,in my opinion their music is dated and relatively uninspiring.
i walked in to a folk club at that time and heard ralph mctell playing blind blake and wizz jones playing big bill broonzy guitar instrumentals. in my opinion more exciting than hank and his shadows and that unimaginative drummer god he was boring, buddy rich could show him a thing or two
Dave, you are right as i said earlier their music is dated.


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 01:47 AM

Of course the Shadows's music is dated, it's 60 years ago! But it wasn't dated at the time. I was 4 years old at the time and even then I recognised how different it was to other music. TBH, I still think it stands apart even now.


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 01:59 AM

what makes greatness in other music genres, in classical music we can turn to beethoven bach mozart , their music is not dated
i put up a clip recorderd in 1961 [only one year after the shadows]recorded it]
by jorgen ingmann, this is a jazz influenced guitarist, it is a little more imaginative and adventurous than the shadows, this version was also popular
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyXLJsO_ulDanish jazz guitarist Jörgen Ingmann recorded this 1961 version of "Apache" that became an international hit reaching the #2 spot on the U.S. Billboard Hot 100, #9 on the R&B chart, and #1 in Canada. Ingmann used his own multi-track home recording studio laying down multiple layers of twang mutated through echo, reverb, speed controls, and his own accompaniment on bass and drums.
guest Roger, i too like a lot of different music, when it is played with passion imagination, i would love to hear apache played with more imagination passion and verve and even imporovisation.
Dave Sutherland you are right the Shadows represent commercial pop music are of their time and are dated, that is why in the early sixties. I sought out other music genres such as folkmusic and jazz which brings us on to davy graham
David Michael Gordon "Davey" Graham (originally spelled Davy Graham) (26 November 1940 – 15 December 2008) was a British guitarist and one of the most influential figures in the 1960s British folk revival. He inspired many famous practitioners of the fingerstyle acoustic guitar such as Bert Jansch, Wizz Jones, John Renbourn, Martin Carthy, John Martyn, Paul Simon and Jimmy Page, who based his solo "White Summer" on Graham's "She Moved Through the Fair". Graham is probably best known for his acoustic instrumental, "Anji" and for popularizing DADGAD tuning, later widely adopted by acoustic guitarists.Davy Graham came to the attention of guitarists through his appearance in a 1959 broadcast of the BBC TV arts series Monitor, produced by Ken Russell and titled Hound Dogs and Bach Addicts: The Guitar Craze, in which he played an acoustic instrumental version of "Cry Me a River". this was the same time that the Shadows were recording APACHE
During the 1960s, Graham released a string of albums of music from all around the world in all kinds of genres.


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: GUEST,Rossey
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 02:29 AM

What a load of pretentious twaddle has arisen out of the commemoration of an innovative and influential instrumental of its period. God knows what sick crap will come out when Hank or Bruce dies. They'll be moving on to Mike Oldfield next. Get a grip. Though Jerry Lordan wrote it, the Shads came up with the intro etc. translating a simple idea into the product. Also of course their producer Norrie Paramour. Just one of many great hits they had, 'Man of Hystery' 'FBI' ;The Savage' etc. Paramour later sent them on the smooth route with orchestration.. Numerous changes of line up on the bass but later the likes of Rostill and Welch also worked as writer/producers with Olivia Newton John (they'll be slagging her off next) responsible for her country period. But one thing begets another. It's just become a series of snobbish, irrelevant comments. No matter what you think it is a record released 60 years ago.. and like Beatles releases, had a lasting effect on other musicians. But to directly compare other styles and playing is nuts.


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 04:48 AM

But to directly compare other styles and playing is nuts. quote
no.
i compared it to other popular guitarsts like jorgen ingmann, bert weedon with clips
i subsequently mentioned jim hendrix.
how is that nust?,i preferred jorgen ingmanns version, so did a lot of americans apparently
music is about interpretation and comparison of interpretation
reviewers, also have no trouble comparing different conductors interpreation of classical music
people had no trouble comparing cilla blacks version of walk on by
and dionne warwick version
what is the difference they are popular music.
or another example the rolling stones version of not fade away and buddy hollys not fade away, they are different takes of popular music, with different interpretations
i take dave sutherlands point about the shadows being of their time and dated


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: GUEST,Rossey
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 05:08 AM

My bad typing earlier.. man of hystery (sic). Should have been mystery. Whoops! Apache was just a tune originally played on a ukulele, not a tchaikovsky symphony. But it kick started many a cover and other groups of similar type. Marvin's sound reverberated down the decades. Of course there are many great R and B, Rock, jazz and folk guitarists before and after.. but it's got nothing much to do with the release of a million selling pop record 60 years ago. Occasionally well known guitar players will admit that they were influenced by watching the Shads. and their success through Apache etc, some having passed through instrumental or beat groups! Otherwise chalk and cheese! #folk snobs do you know one?


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: peteglasgow
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 05:11 AM

i could never understand the appeal of the shadows, certaiinly not cliff richard, bill haley or the joe brown types and crooners of the times. that's fine though - they were just a wee bit before my time. my own first enthusiasms were in the '70s = the who, ISB, then john martyn, sandy denny (and shaw!) and the west coast superstars of neil young, joni, leonard and van. this took me through to the damned, clash, specials and elvis etc etc....anyway the 70s stuff is what i listen to most these days - in strange and boring times it's good to have neil and joni rounf doe an evening. you'll always love the music that first affected you eh? we may be missing friends and family but mostly we just miss our youth


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 05:29 AM

It's funny Pete. I would have had the same list of "just before my time" until a couple of years back. I was 7 in 1960 so didn't really get into music until the late 60s. But I saw Joe Brown live 2 or 3 years ago and found his music, or maybe his style, has changed with the times. He was very good and I would recommend him to anyone.

Sorry for the thread drift.


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 05:31 AM

guest rossey, fair enough
. Jörgen Ingmann recorded this 1961 version of "Apache" that became an international hit reaching the #2 spot on the U.S. Billboard Hot 100, which the Shadows did not, the Shadows had a uk hit,
regardless of popularity, two different versions show different musical approaches.it is not snobbish to prefer one version to another.
Bonzo prefers one version, i do not call him a snob because of that


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 06:15 AM

Oddly enough, I used to have a 10" LP of Jorgen which I can't find this morning. Pity, it could be worth a few £s now!

Back to Apache, I believe there was an early pressing which had a mistake on the label, possibly when Columbia 45s changed from green to black.


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 07:45 AM

Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: punkfolkrocker - PM
Date: 17 Jun 20 - 06:07 PM

Bollocks to Clapton...

Marvin is god...!!!
that post was made, before i entered this discussion, punk folk rocker made a comparison.
his hypocrisy is staggering, yet no one has a go at him for making comparisons.


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 07:54 AM

It's all a question of guitarists' banter which perhaps you wouldn't understand!!


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 08:17 AM

Indeed, Bonz. Everyone else understood.
Thanks for starting the thread, BTW - it’s been ‘ShadowsFest’ in my house this weekend!


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 08:46 AM

Fantastic!


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 09:23 AM

Yep! I’d almost forgotten how much I loved them ‘back then’, and some great memories have been revived!


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 11:53 AM

Would it be OK then if I started a Freddie And The Dreamers thread? :-)


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 12:00 PM

Seeing as my reasonable justified sarcastic posts have been deleted,
I'll guess dick went whining to a mod...?????

Dick - my Clapton comment was obviously a tongue in cheek 'in joke'
which would be clearly understood by anyone who
knew anything meaningful about the history of 'guitar hero worship'...

So before you declare victory and continue portraying yourself as a poor innocent victim
of cruel punk folk rock bullying...


All you are doing is further exposing yourself as a vain petty minded phony expert
on a subject you are obviously clueless about...

If I have time, I might rework my deleted posts regarding your persistent deliberate bad conduct in this thread,
to make them more acceptable to whichever mod
[probably reluctantly]
took pity on you...


You're all badly behaved in this thread, and if you'd taken a look, a bunch of the off-topic squabbling was removed, from several parties. Stop the bickering, the bunch of you, you should be embarrassed by your behavior.


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 12:19 PM

"Would it be OK then if I started a Freddie And The Dreamers thread? :-)"

Much rather it be a Big Three thread - the most accomplished band to come out of Merseyside!!


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: gillymor
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 12:42 PM

That guitar solo on "Do the Freddy" was wicked, man.


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 12:47 PM

I'm rather keen on the fuzz guitar riffs and solos
on Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick & Tich records...


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 01:06 PM

”Much rather it be a Big Three thread - the most accomplished band to come out of Merseyside!!“

My band supported The Big Three at Lincoln Drill Hall in 1963 - a great band, fronted by ‘Griff’ Griffiths and Johnny Gustafson. Technically highly accomplished musicians, they were one of the most aggressive bands, performance-wise, I ever had the pleasure of playing alongside. It was only a few months later that Griff and Johnny left the band, I guess around the time of the bust-up with Epstein.

An excellent band which never really achieved its considerable potential, IMHO, although Griff and Johnny went on to work with other very successful musicians and bands.


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 01:11 PM

I used to go to Lincoln for about 7 days to do an audit of a hire purchase company. I remember going to see The Casuals with some of the girls from the client's office. It would have been around 1965.


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 01:16 PM

I saw Johnny Gustafson in The Pirates during 1985 in London!


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 01:30 PM

We played a few ‘dance’ gigs with The Casuals, who we got on very well with. We also auditioned for ‘Opportunity Knocks’ with them at a cinema in Gainsborough - they got on the show, we didn’t! I became somewhat friendly with Howard Newcombe and John Tebb for a short while but, after their success on ‘Op. Knocks’ they moved to Italy, and I never saw them again, although I used to hear about them from time to time via other local musicians.

They were a very good band, and a good bunch of lads.


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 01:32 PM

BWM & Bonz - personally, I'd happily prefer to read a full blog of your informal reminiscences
on this vitally important era in UK music culture heritage;
than much of what passes as 'interesting' music discussion at mudcat...

Keep going mates, defy the miseries who want to shut you down...


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 02:42 PM

When I first got into music aged 12 in 1971,
I somehow developed an equally keen enthusiasm for contemporary rock and folk,
and 1960s pop and rock...

But at that time, even though the 60s music was still not that old,
most of it had passed out of circulation, even been deleted..

Unless you had older siblings and their record collection,
which i didn't,
it was extremely difficult even knowing what 60s music had ever existed.

All we had were the biggest 3 or 4 1960s bands still stocked in local record shops,
or occasional greatest hits LPs slipping out at xmas...

So thank the music gods for Record Collector mag many years later,
and then the internet...

My personal biased old blokey opinion is that
very little music since the golden era of mid 50s to early 80s
is worth bothering with...


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 02:47 PM

I would welcome a Freddie and the Dreamers thread. I'm telling you now, I like it! As a Mancunian I do not appreciate them being lumped in with the Scousers though :-(


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 03:27 PM

Yes Freddie and the Dreamers were great, my personal favourite was "If you gotta make a fool of somebody" which I first heard done by Cliff Bennett & the Rebel Rousers at The Big Beat Club in Harrow!


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 03:39 PM

Ha! We also played a couple of support gigs wIth Cliff Bennett and the Rebel Rousers! Now that was a band! And once again, nice blokes. Chas Hodges was with them at the time.


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 03:40 PM

Some long time ago I read a statistic that on average more than 70 singles a week,
were released.
Most of 'em lost to oblivion until serious specialist nostalgia CD boxsets
were marketed to us music obsessives...

My memory of the exact number is a bit hazy now,
"70" will do for my immediate purpose,
unless a top mudcat musicology expert contradicts me;
but it accounts for how us 1970s teenagers were only aware of the tip of the colossal 1960s UK music iceberg...


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 04:30 PM

Their brilliant guitarist Micky King apparently didn't want to go to Germany with the Rebel Rousers, so he joined James Royal and The Hawks who had a long residency at the Big Beat Club in Harrow around 1964 - same guitar bass & drums line up and supported all the guest bands. Micky had mastered the Mick Green style and performed many JK & the Pirates songs. The bass player held his bass almost level with his chin!


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: JHW
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 04:50 PM

Aye it may have been a bit basic but I can still remember the melody. Can't do that with 'Murder Most Foul', which I heard last week.


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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago!
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 05:39 PM

Been following this tangled thread, if not saying much, but now prompted to pull out my copy of "The Shadows' Greatest Hits" - a compilation of those recorded between 1960 and 1962, with Apache is the first track on side 1.
I was 14 then, and as I said in a post above, and others have said too, it was like nothing ever heard before. Plenty of time, if I really have to, to develop more sophisticated tastes in guitarists in my next 60 years. 10 years on, I would have been listening to the likes of John Renbourn, Bert Jansch, Davy Graham, Ralph McTell. But at age 14, I was most likely more concerned with which one of the Shads was the best-looking (OK, Tony Meehan) than what guitar they played or tech stuff they used. I just LIKED IT!
FWIW the track list in this LP is:
Side 1
1. Apache
2. Man of Mystery
3. The Stranger
4. F.B.I.
5. Midnight
6. The Frightened City
7. Kon-Tiki
Side 2
1. 36-24-36.    (I was once!)
2. The Savage
3. Peace Pipe
4. Wonderful Land
5. Stars Fell on Stockton.      (Place name chosen as they were in panto there!!)
6. Guitar Tango
7. The Boys
8. Dance On


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