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The future of folk music in a post-Covid

The Sandman 22 May 20 - 11:00 AM
RTim 22 May 20 - 11:06 AM
punkfolkrocker 22 May 20 - 12:17 PM
GUEST,akenaton 22 May 20 - 12:42 PM
GUEST,kenny 22 May 20 - 12:44 PM
punkfolkrocker 22 May 20 - 01:02 PM
The Sandman 22 May 20 - 01:10 PM
punkfolkrocker 22 May 20 - 01:21 PM
Dave the Gnome 22 May 20 - 01:26 PM
Steve Gardham 22 May 20 - 01:45 PM
Jeri 22 May 20 - 02:30 PM
Dave the Gnome 22 May 20 - 02:35 PM
The Sandman 22 May 20 - 02:40 PM
punkfolkrocker 22 May 20 - 02:54 PM
Raggytash 22 May 20 - 03:03 PM
Jack Campin 22 May 20 - 03:08 PM
GUEST,Peter 22 May 20 - 03:14 PM
Doug Chadwick 22 May 20 - 05:55 PM
CupOfTea 22 May 20 - 06:09 PM
GUEST,Observer 22 May 20 - 07:46 PM
Dave the Gnome 23 May 20 - 04:11 AM
The Sandman 23 May 20 - 04:25 AM
GUEST,Nick Dow 23 May 20 - 04:44 AM
GUEST,kenny 23 May 20 - 05:07 AM
GUEST 23 May 20 - 05:13 AM
GUEST,jim bainbridge 23 May 20 - 05:14 AM
GUEST,Observer 23 May 20 - 05:31 AM
The Sandman 23 May 20 - 05:42 AM
GUEST,jim bainbridge 23 May 20 - 05:54 AM
Dave the Gnome 23 May 20 - 05:56 AM
GUEST,Dtm 23 May 20 - 06:20 AM
GUEST,Nick Dow 23 May 20 - 06:28 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 23 May 20 - 06:30 AM
The Sandman 23 May 20 - 07:19 AM
GUEST 23 May 20 - 07:26 AM
The Sandman 23 May 20 - 07:28 AM
The Sandman 23 May 20 - 07:32 AM
Joe G 23 May 20 - 09:01 AM
GUEST,Observer 23 May 20 - 09:51 AM
The Sandman 23 May 20 - 10:12 AM
The Sandman 23 May 20 - 10:29 AM
Joe G 23 May 20 - 10:44 AM
The Sandman 23 May 20 - 10:51 AM
Dave the Gnome 23 May 20 - 10:54 AM
punkfolkrocker 23 May 20 - 11:09 AM
GUEST,G B-P 23 May 20 - 11:12 AM
GUEST,jhim bainbridge 23 May 20 - 01:42 PM
The Sandman 23 May 20 - 05:05 PM
The Sandman 23 May 20 - 05:27 PM
punkfolkrocker 23 May 20 - 07:31 PM
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Subject: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 May 20 - 11:00 AM

for Jeri


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: RTim
Date: 22 May 20 - 11:06 AM

Music will always have a future.....we just don't know what it will be yet....

Tim Radford...


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 May 20 - 12:17 PM

Too many old acoustic folkies are not sufficiently equipped to consider the future..
They have enough problems relating to the present...

But maybe, just maybe, covid is the kick up the arse they need
to stop dwelling on an idealised & over-romanticised past...|???


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 22 May 20 - 12:42 PM

PFR, I think you're developing trolling symptoms since to started knocking about with that BS crew.....do ye no' wear a mask?


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 22 May 20 - 12:44 PM

Which country are you asking about ?


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 May 20 - 01:02 PM

Ake - no, my justifiable disdain of very vociferous reactionary folkies
has been consistent over all the years I've been visiting here..

Whereas your post here serves little constructive purpose...


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 May 20 - 01:10 PM

ANY COUNTRY YOU LIKE , I THINK IT WILL DE FINE IN IRELAND


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 May 20 - 01:21 PM

Worst case scenario, covid will wipe out elder folkies
in poorer regions of the world..

Which could be devastating if they have not left behind written or audio records,
of their knowledge of local oral folk culture accumulated over a long history...???


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 May 20 - 01:26 PM

As I said over on the Job Doran thread, the future belongs to the young. Post Covid or otherwise. Us old fogies are too set in our ways for any radical change. I accept change is not always for the best but it is change or die as far as live folk (or most other) music is concerned.

I'm not worried about it. The past has gone. The future is yet to happen. Enjoy what we have today - whatever it is :-)


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 22 May 20 - 01:45 PM

The very nature of our music, based at grass-roots level, will ensure that its future will have a better chance of survival and even thrive above and beyond any other genre, simply because it does not rely on commercialism to sustain it.


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: Jeri
Date: 22 May 20 - 02:30 PM

"Trolling"?!

It's a worthy subject. I think we're going to be on hold until we get a vaccine, although it will be safer when endemic infections reduce a lot.

I think a lot of music, folk or other, is going to be recorded, or on-line. Concerts, bars or clubs, festivals - any sort of public gatherings - are problematic.

And Dave, the future belongs to anyone for whom it becomes the present.


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 May 20 - 02:35 PM

The future can never become the present, Jeri. Tomorrow never comes :-)


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 May 20 - 02:40 PM

Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: Steve Gardham - PM
Date: 22 May 20 - 01:45 PM

The very nature of our music, based at grass-roots level, will ensure that its future will have a better chance of survival and even thrive above and beyond any other genre, simply because it does not rely on commercialism to sustain it.
so the more commercial festivals like cambridge might suffer temporarily?


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 May 20 - 02:54 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsCyC1dZiN8


.. where it's familiar, warm, cosy, and safe for old folkies...


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 May 20 - 03:03 PM

I am reminded when people talk of "change" just how unsettling it can be for some people, it used to be so for me.

However.

Some years ago the company I worked for was taken over by a much bigger company, they closed some offices and amalgamated the staff into two office one of which I worked in. I was charged with making the adjustments to allow a greater number of people. In order to do this I moved one woman from one end of a large office to the other end so she would work with people with a similar field. She almost had a nervous breakdown. Her reaction was astonishing.

However.

I taught me a very good lesson and that is that change happens and you have to learn to live with it. In fact I also learn that change can be good as it makes you confront your own "staleness"

I have never worried about change since, bring it on.


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: Jack Campin
Date: 22 May 20 - 03:08 PM

Lullabies will do fine. They're the most centrally important of all folksong genres, and the one you'll least hear in a folk club.


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 22 May 20 - 03:14 PM

In ENGLAND the big problem will be loss of venues with many pub closures in particular. I suspect that the number of classic guest+floor spot clubs will fall sharply. The licensed trade was reorienting towards meal service before the crisis and I think that this will be accentuated in surviving pubs further reducing the available venues for sessions. We may see more straight concerts in venues such and churches and village halls.

Big "marquee in a field" festivals will recover while town based venues will focus more on concerts as the number of surviving small venues declines.

The problem will be the availability of a format accessible to newcomers, who don't initially consider performing themselves, in the way that the classic folk club should be.

These comments are based on the state of the ENGLISH licensed trade pre coronavirus and its interaction with the folk scene.


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 22 May 20 - 05:55 PM

In 50 years time, today's young folkies will be old fogies discussing how much better music was back in the 2010s and 20s.

DC


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: CupOfTea
Date: 22 May 20 - 06:09 PM

This is getting the cart waaaay BEFORE the horse. What needs considering is the future of folk music DURING covid!

This was a large part of discussion at a folk society board meeting where our president Charlie Mosbrook, who is not the "older" generation, (but still with decades of experience behind him) was blunt about folks whose income comes from their music are going to have to learn how to promote themselves online, or fall to the wayside. In trying to find ways of supporting locals and get some sort of concert series going, the depth of detail folks face is daunting, and figuring out/learning the technical "stuff" is going to be a steep learning curve and financial stressor for many.

This isn' t going to be "over" till a vaccine is availiable, on the scale of the polio vaccination program, so a year, year and a half? In the not even 3 months since lockdown here, the blossoming of online performances, singing sessions, distance collaborations is awesome! Finding creative solutions for passing on the music is the key to survival. I have seen & heard a wider range of performances in the last 2 months than I would in half a year, introduced to performers & traditions completely new, and strengthened existing connections.

This is building a foundation for "after" This is embracing community and enlarging it.
The folk who do this for love, and do not have to make an income from it, they're not going to stop. Zooming a lullaby to your grandchild may be a new tradition: one of many that will evolve during this transition from 2019's reality to the post-vaccine world we pray for.

Joanne in Cleveland, still trying to improve her Zoom sound...


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 22 May 20 - 07:46 PM

"Folk" Music has never, ever, needed commercialism to sustain it.

If I am going to listen to, or watch folk music online. I will create a play-list of the artists whose work I like and play that. Why listen to poor recordings with lousy sound, performed by mediocre artists with the additional interruptions of any audience present clattering plates, coughing and talking.


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 May 20 - 04:11 AM

In answer to Observer's last question - To emulate being at a folk club!


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 May 20 - 04:25 AM

In Ireland there is extensive musical coverage of tradtional music and singing[ is that commercialisation or just exposure?]
my wireless is set on radio na gealachta, and every morning i can listen and most evenings between7pm and 9pm tradtional mirish music presented in a non commercial way, that wiil not change because of the virus. so folk music in ireland get state support it is funded [does that make it commercial] not in radio naeagaelchta case,but PERHAPS to a small extent in CCE CASE, A state fundedorganisation. to avoid commercialisation perhaps the uk should follow irelands example and state fund tradtional music?


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 23 May 20 - 04:44 AM

The venues may be different, and possibly some organisers and singers will go and new ones start, but we'll be back up to strength by the end of the year, or the beginning of next year. I don't doubt it.


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 23 May 20 - 05:07 AM

What's your definition of "back up to strength", Nick ? I'm afraid you're a lot more optimistic than I am. I'm not asking this to be awkward, I'm genuinely seeking information.


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: GUEST
Date: 23 May 20 - 05:13 AM

Are you saying nothing will change & we'll just go back to how it was Nick?- think you're dreaming there, but like the Premier league!

So you'd like to be nationalised, Dick?- from my experience of FF & FG politicians, they begrudge every penny spent on the music so good luck wit that.... maybe a SF government might be different, but that doesn't seem to be an option at the moment.


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 23 May 20 - 05:14 AM

that was me


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 23 May 20 - 05:31 AM

"To emulate being at a folk club"?

My interest in "folk song" lies with the songs, not in who is singing them. So as previously stated if the future of folk music lies online then I will listen to well performed and recorded versions of the songs I prefer and like. The thread is after all entitled "The future of folk music ....." NOT "The future of folk clubs .......".


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 May 20 - 05:42 AM

jim bainbridge, radio na galctha has been great for years lots of irish trad music being played well,whatever you want to call it the radio state funding radio na gaelchta has been a pleasure to listen to.i agree with nick dow i am optimistic


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 23 May 20 - 05:54 AM

Dick,
   I'm well aware of the quality of the Irish language part of Irish radio- I know nothing of TV- I gave up on that years ago & that RnaG relies on state funding- what's your point?- all I said was I think the establishment probably begrudges every penny!

   I heard an excellent music programme on Radio Ulster last night with an Irish language presenter by the way if you need a change from RnaG!

I don't think my comments showed any lack of optimism...I simply said that things need to CHANGE and put forward a potential way forward (or backward if you prefer).


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 May 20 - 05:56 AM

Observer. You asked "Why listen to poor recordings with lousy sound, performed by mediocre artists with the additional interruptions of any audience present clattering plates, coughing and talking. I answered "To emulate being at a folk club!". I would have thought that it was an obvious tongue in cheek response to a daft question. I was obviously wrong. Sorry.


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: GUEST,Dtm
Date: 23 May 20 - 06:20 AM

I agree with Peter in that venues will present the biggest problem because of the ongoing numbers of pub closures. The lockdown has probably accelerated the demise of many of them.
On the bright side I feel there will always be a market for live music of all styles and would-be performers will find somewhere to sing their songs. The general popularity of 'folk music' seems to go through peaks and troughs as the years roll by.


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 23 May 20 - 06:28 AM

Dreaming or not, I genuinely believe my post above. We are not going to stop singing, it's in the blood. Sorry if this is too positive for some, but that's how I feel. You never know I might even be right! Stranger things have happened.


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 23 May 20 - 06:30 AM

A lot of music has, for the time being, moved online. I don't know about FG and FF politicians begrudging money spent on music but the Arts Council (of Ireland) is very supportive at the moment keepong things going, musicians are being commisioned to make videos of their playing for example, Na Piobairi Uilleann's 'Piping ion the Parlour' is one initiative where Pipers under lockdown play music from home for an audience around the world.

I also saw, here or elsewhere, a link kenny posted of the lovely Nell singing online. The Willie Clancy Summer School is planning online events during the week the event usually takes place. and other initiatives are unfolding all over the place. Different things for different circumstances. Music isn't going away.


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 May 20 - 07:19 AM

what is my point, what is my point?it works .
it is part of the mainstream, but it is not commercialised the poiltical establishment and arts establishment support it , if this was done in the uk and subsidised [ more money given to efdss ,would be a start] a similiar radip program in england to radio na gealtha,are there programs like this in scotlasnd and wales?
there would be no incentive to commercialise and change the essence of it, that is my point, awareness of ones own heritage and culture.
another alternatiove would be asimiliar programme to radio na gealtha whichincluded all culture sof the uk and including indigenous and immigranr cultures such as indian music, as well as english trad, but subsidised by government to avoid commercialisation. and hopefully no songs about cliiff pilchard


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: GUEST
Date: 23 May 20 - 07:26 AM

another alternatiove would be asimiliar programme to radio na gealtha whichincluded all culture sof the uk and including indigenous and immigranr cultures such as indian music, as well as english trad, but subsidised by government to avoid commercialisation.
And how would that differ from the show that Kathryn Tickell already presents on the BBC?


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 May 20 - 07:28 AM

oh yes and it was Haughey fianna fail for all his faults who introduced the examption from income tax for artists and musicians and in fairness it has been ff and fg who have been in government for most of the history of the irish state, not sinn fein, so sinn fein cannot take any credit for government assistance of financing tradtional irish music


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 May 20 - 07:32 AM

how frequent is the kathryn tickell programme is it on every day?is it part of the mainstream media, is it on at peak listening time


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: Joe G
Date: 23 May 20 - 09:01 AM

Music Planet, which Kathryn Tickell is one of the presenters of, is on every Saturday at 4pm on Radio 3. An excellent programme that I never miss - though it's predecessor World Routes was originally two hours long rather than one hour


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 23 May 20 - 09:51 AM

DtG, our folk club, no clanking of plates or people talking, our speciality would appear to be munching crisps to provide some sort of weird percussion accompaniment :{)


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 May 20 - 10:12 AM

joe g, so one hour out of how much potential broadcasting,i am talking about a seven day schedule of at least two hours a day, and that is avery conservative estimate that does not take into account other trad music programmes on other radio stations. onehour a week is hardly comparable, there needs to be more


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 May 20 - 10:29 AM

school report the BBC must try harder


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: Joe G
Date: 23 May 20 - 10:44 AM

Totally agree Dick - though there is also Folk on 2, occasional folk music on other Radio 3 programmes too, but much more would be very welcome.

I also wish the BBC in England would provide as much folk music TV coverage as BBC Scotland / Alba


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 May 20 - 10:51 AM

i will try and listen to it today altough the bbc are a bit idiosyncrtic last night i was not allowed to listen to a programme about billy bremner in my jurisdiction on fm so i listened on long wave on my wireless, what are they doing


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 May 20 - 10:54 AM

Observer :-D

From Fred Wedlock's "Talking folk club blues"

Then the barman started doing his bit for culture
On smokey bacon maracas and E flat cash register


We don't get much talking and plate clanking at ours to be honest but it does drift up from the pub downstairs sometimes. Funniest thing I ever heard was years ago when Bernard Wrigley's PA system started picking up the local taxis!


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 May 20 - 11:09 AM

Dick - right now it takes more than enough optimism hoping the BBC won't be sold off and broken up for scrap,
by vindictive tory politicians [puppets of right wing media barons] who hate it..

However, free minded independent non commercial voluntary folk culture will better flourish unbounded,
on home made internet blogs, and more mainstream audio visual social media...


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: GUEST,G B-P
Date: 23 May 20 - 11:12 AM

If no one's already mentioned it, the Covideo folk club on FB is a very enjoyable and worthwhile endeavour. It's people sharing videos of themselves performing folk music, and was instituted in response to the current crisis shutting down gatherings of people interested in folk. Hence the portmanteau "Covid", "Video"... you get the picture.

I certainly hope folk clubs survive this, particularly as I took the decision to return to listening to and singing trad folk songs after several years away shortly before all this started. Personally I think gatherings in pubs/clubs etc will be legal again long before there is a vaccine, so at that point it'll be a judgment call for the individuals concerned as to whether or not they want to resume.

Gene.


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: GUEST,jhim bainbridge
Date: 23 May 20 - 01:42 PM

Dick, I think we're on the same side really- but quite frankly how do you have time to listen to all this wonderful stuff on RnaG & elsewhere? Have you no potatoes to plant?
    In 1985-1999, when I lived in West Cork, near you, there was VERY little Irish music for MANY miles around- so little that a local Geordie was in demand to play for the tourists.
I remember a rather unpleasant & noisy Irish exile, back on holiday at a session in Arundel's of Schull (great pub, now closed) saying how great it was that the tradition was still alive.
My fiddler pal didn't like him much & said 'Aye but if it wasn't for a couple of Geordies, there'd be nowt here'- and he was dead right.

Almost all of the 'local' musicians who met for the ONLY session for many miles at Rosie's on a Friday had a background in the English or European folk scene (including you and I!) and so if that was the local catalyst for an improved situation in 2020, I'm very pleased about that.
BUT don't give me all this crap about a continuing tradition & that Ballydehob has always been a hotbed of the music -it hasn't- maybe things are improving - i hope so- but please stop all this nonsense about how much better it is in Ireland, it's very annoying to UK residents, especially ones like me, who know better!
I used to get a free crossing on the Swansea ferry to play music & was often told by tourists that my little session was the first decent Irish (!) music they'd heard after 14 days in Ireland.....


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 May 20 - 05:05 PM

Sorry Jim you are out of touch with ballydehob present day scene,
and you are misrepresenting me ,
what i said was that irish trad music is heavily subsidised and is on mainstream radio radio na gealtha and other MAINSTREAM PROGRAMMES such as rte one, that it has exposure right now in may 2020.
there are many irish people now playing trad music in west cork some of this is due to CCE.
    The Bantry Branch of CCE IS IN ITS 50 TH YEAR , and has in all that time been run by Mary Tisdall and Tom Sullivan , Mary is from Bantry and Tom from Tralee, her brother Richie Tisdall has lived all his life in this area too and was playing while you lived here., in fact they all were, then there is Skibbereen CCE Who are involved with the Ballydehob trad music festival, which has been running for 11 years and is run by a comittee of irish musicians which include Ann Rredmond [irish]Marie Cotter[irish ] Sean Walsh [Irish]AnnR[nee Coughlan] is a native of Ballydehob and was teaching accordion when you lived here
Two Business owners who are also irish were playing music at that time, noel and ivan camier[ celtic spirt] Ivan now plays bodhran in the band Rubicon, Noel runs rosies bar and has been playing accordion at a number of sessions in his bar Francine Thurnheer[nee ORegan Irish] plays whistle and was playing and teaching when you lived here PATFLEMING irish] MARRIED TO Marie Cotter[ an irish native of Ballydehob , Both fine musicians. Seamus Creagh RIP was playing in Skibbereen regularly[ during your time and since] and had previously lived on Sherkin Island he was the postman here.
Seamus and Jackie Daly had played at the original Gabes IN BALLYDEHOB before your time JimmyCrowley played there and i saw him playing when dan o mahony owned the pub in your time
at the time you lived there there was also a band called take the floor[west cork skibbereen area. who played trad music and did a similiar repertoire to you they had three irish members, i could go on and on paddy barry who owned a pub in durrus and played the fiddle and his mate box player will cotter.
and i never mentioned ballydehob being a hot bed of anything but since you mentioned, i am duty bound to correct you
i am not talking crap, i have only said that there is more exposure on national radio in ireland than in the uk and that the fact it is subsidised means it does not have to be commercialised. how long ago was it that you lived in dunbeacon?, you are out of touch and not remebering accurately, you have lived in spain the canaries leitrim scotland ulster since you left west cork is that correct?


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 May 20 - 05:27 PM

Here is a you tube clip of Tom and Mary, WHO HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN BANTRY CCE FOR MANY YEARS IN MARYS CASE NEARLY 50,Fine musicians you undoubtedly remember them Jim and all the others i have mentioned all irish.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Qk9KDYjcRM
good luck with your music and stay safe


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Subject: RE: The future of folk music in a post-Covid
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 May 20 - 07:31 PM

How's the future coming along in this thread..

Have we reached the 1980s yet...???


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