mudcat.org: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafeawe

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]


Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!

keberoxu 23 May 20 - 01:52 PM
GUEST 23 May 20 - 01:44 PM
Jim Carroll 23 May 20 - 11:38 AM
Joe G 23 May 20 - 10:49 AM
The Sandman 23 May 20 - 10:16 AM
GUEST,kenny 23 May 20 - 09:27 AM
Jim Carroll 23 May 20 - 08:56 AM
Jim Carroll 23 May 20 - 08:54 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 23 May 20 - 08:18 AM
GUEST,Peter 23 May 20 - 08:10 AM
Bonzo3legs 23 May 20 - 07:26 AM
Jim Carroll 23 May 20 - 06:59 AM
Bonzo3legs 23 May 20 - 06:45 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 23 May 20 - 06:38 AM
Jim Carroll 23 May 20 - 06:15 AM
GUEST,jim bainbridge 23 May 20 - 05:45 AM
Jim Carroll 23 May 20 - 04:05 AM
Bonzo3legs 23 May 20 - 02:15 AM
GUEST,jim bainbridge 22 May 20 - 01:15 PM
Jeri 22 May 20 - 09:23 AM
GUEST,jim bainbridge 22 May 20 - 09:03 AM
The Sandman 22 May 20 - 08:54 AM
The Sandman 22 May 20 - 08:48 AM
Raggytash 22 May 20 - 08:14 AM
GUEST,kenny 22 May 20 - 07:04 AM
GUEST,jim bainbridge 22 May 20 - 06:15 AM
The Sandman 22 May 20 - 05:49 AM
Dave the Gnome 22 May 20 - 03:52 AM
Dave the Gnome 22 May 20 - 03:45 AM
The Sandman 22 May 20 - 03:00 AM
The Sandman 22 May 20 - 02:54 AM
Dave the Gnome 22 May 20 - 02:31 AM
The Sandman 22 May 20 - 01:53 AM
GUEST,Nick Dow 21 May 20 - 07:00 PM
Dave the Gnome 21 May 20 - 04:56 PM
Doug Chadwick 21 May 20 - 04:09 PM
The Sandman 21 May 20 - 03:57 PM
Doug Chadwick 21 May 20 - 03:54 PM
The Sandman 21 May 20 - 03:33 PM
punkfolkrocker 21 May 20 - 03:24 PM
The Sandman 21 May 20 - 03:19 PM
Raggytash 21 May 20 - 03:17 PM
Dave the Gnome 21 May 20 - 02:59 PM
The Sandman 21 May 20 - 02:48 PM
Dave the Gnome 21 May 20 - 12:05 PM
GUEST,Peter 21 May 20 - 11:29 AM
GUEST,Nick Dow 21 May 20 - 10:03 AM
Jeri 21 May 20 - 09:39 AM
The Sandman 21 May 20 - 09:34 AM
Dave the Gnome 21 May 20 - 09:17 AM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:






Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 May 20 - 01:52 PM

nused ??


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: GUEST
Date: 23 May 20 - 01:44 PM

nused on here really


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 May 20 - 11:38 AM

"as well as her own excellent songs"
Her mam's a great songwriter too - something else she inherited
Wonder if she inherited the game of making up new names for folk songs Sandra, John and I used to play on long car journeys

FOLK FOODS
The Grey Co Au Vin
The Unquiet Gravy
Dowie Dens of Marrow or Alan Tyne of Marrow
or the American - Hang Down your Head Tandoori

FOLK ANIMALS
The False Kite on the Toad
Terrapin Hero......

Used to keep us awake on the longest journeys
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: Joe G
Date: 23 May 20 - 10:49 AM

Nancy Kerr is one of my favourite folk artists. I enjoy both her more traditional material as well as her own excellent songs

Jon Boden is another artist who is doing much to keep folk song alive - his Folk Song a Day project for example. He is another excellent songwriter in the folk tradition - I consider his album 'Songs From The Floodplain' to be the finest folk album of the 21st century so far


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 May 20 - 10:16 AM

i am lucky in that in my locality and within 50 miles there are good musicians who play in the sliabh luchra tradtion


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 23 May 20 - 09:27 AM

"The problem with many these singers is that they all have potential but no real interest in the tradition" - Jim, above.
That I would say is also very much the case at the moment in Scotland, and even more so for instrumentalists.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 May 20 - 08:56 AM

I started my folk life in the Liverpool Spinners Club Peter
I tried my best to like Dylan but failed miserably
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 May 20 - 08:54 AM

"will make a pretty wide audience aware of the traditional roots from which they take their style,"
I used to believe that Bonzo - from the days whan Shirley Ellis recorded 'Rubber Dolly'
It never worked out - they create audiences for what they do to the tradition rather than the tradition itself
The problem with many these singers is that they all have potential but no real interest in the tradition
You mentioned Nancy Kerr earlier - I remember her as a child
Her parents, Sandra Kerr and Ron Elliot are/were wonderful performers (Ron, a tremendous Northumbrian piper died far too young)
I performed with them both occasionally, though they both were far better than I was and Sandra and her former husband John Faulkner, were incredibly kind to me when I moved to London
Sandra visited Ireland shortly after we moved here and gave us an early recording of Nancy - spooky - it was the young Sandra I remember
Nancy maintained what she got from her mother while moving not too far away from the tradition
A great example of intelligent use of the old forms (though I confess I haven't herd her or James for a while)
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 23 May 20 - 08:18 AM

'I think Peter is spot on, other than his view of the clubs'

I have very little experience with English/UK folkclubs, just an impression gleaned from different sources. Not even an opinion or a view but an impression although perhaps not a particularly favourable one.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 23 May 20 - 08:10 AM

But the "wannabe professionals" will make a pretty wide audience aware of the traditional roots from which they take their style, however commercial - they have to eat don't they! So from that audience, there will come a few more who are interested enough to perform traditional songs, and may even write new songs to become part of the tradition in the future.
I agree there when considering the BRITISH folk scene. Without folk song as a "community" experience the first introduction for most people will be from commercial sources. In my young days this was The Spinners or Bob Dylan.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 May 20 - 07:26 AM

But the "wannabe professionals" will make a pretty wide audience aware of the traditional roots from which they take their style, however commercial - they have to eat don't they! So from that audience, there will come a few more who are interested enough to perform traditional songs, and may even write new songs to become part of the tradition in the future.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 May 20 - 06:59 AM

Some are, some aren't in my opinion Bonzo - but nowhere near enough to make a real difference
One of the main problems is that the scene has been deliberately ripped up from the grass roots to make room for wannabe professionals, which means cap-doffing to the music industry and pleasing the media rather than using it
I think Peter is spot on, other than his view of the clubs
Iris music can and will survive in a session environment, but sessions offer no future for singers, who require attention for say, longish ballads and narrative songs
Music Sessions can be too noisy but a good one usually manages to rise above the noise and win a listening environment
THat is yet to happen for singing
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 May 20 - 06:45 AM

I was under the impression that people like Nancy Kerr, Seth Lakeman and someone else whose name escapes my just now (- we have builders next door making traditional mechanical noises!!!) are adding to the tradition with various projects in which they have become involved. Ah yes The Askew Sisters with their "Enclosure" project.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 23 May 20 - 06:38 AM

If I may give a little slice of opinion here, I have always felt the presence, the company of older musicians a great help. Not just as an example musically or advice or guidance given but simply the company that gives you context and insights into the culture and attitudes around it, perhaps more important than just the music per se. But that is in the Irish context, that seems very different to me from the English folkscene that appears so obsessed with clubs and bookings.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 May 20 - 06:15 AM

" I benefited from the EXAMPLE of older singers rather than their advice"
I found both an immense help - they new whaaaat folk song was and how important it was
They didn't always say the same thing in detail but basically they were aall coming from the same place
Much have what has been added has got in the way of people understanding the music and has led to less rather than more followers
The dream of the old crowd of revivalists was to add to the tradition rather than replace is, which seems to e the case today
What it boils to is that Ireland now has a guaranteed future for its music alongside a healthy experimental movement whereas in England, the old songs are teetering on the brink of disappearing onto the shelves and in the archives
Past disasters like The Famine actually provided the fertilizer in which oral traditions could deepen home roots and lay down new ones wherever the refugees fled to find new homes
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 23 May 20 - 05:45 AM

Jim,
   what I was saying was not to denigrate old codgers everywhere, I benefited from the EXAMPLE of older singers rather than their advice- I found in many cases it was THEY who needed advice about how to handle newfound fame!

I was just saying there is a vast amount of material ON TOP of what we were aware of in the early days. Also that we can state our view of the music, as you have consistently, but it's up to younger folk to either listen or not & go from there- they have the tools.
I have a different view of the music, but we won't go into that- things have to change, and over the years we've never been able to close off our music from the crass end of the commercial world as I think we'd both prefer.
However there are changes coming everywhere & maybe in the world of folk music, maybe with all its horrors, Covid 19 will do the job for us & set us all on a different route?
I'll continue this theme (if necessary) on the thread suggested by Jeri.
ps- my local pub/brewery in Scotland will deliver 12x half litre bottles of his own brew for £25 - will Guinness not do that? - maybe not the price, but it's the Covid equivalent of the milk round- it doesn't come on the NHS unfortunately


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 May 20 - 04:05 AM

I have no idea who the subject of this discussion is,
I agree almost complerely with your sentiments Jim but I do take issue with your "old codger" remark
I suspect that, like me and others, you benefitted from the advice and practical assistance from the older singers and researchers that were generous to offer their help when we first dipped our toe into the scene - they had been where we wanted to go and they had met and overcome the pitfalls of being new
More than at any time now, where there is a massive fog hanging over the identity of folk song, new people need help in finding their way through the pea-souper and make their choices by being given all the information available to make their choices
Nobody expects them to agree or follow everything they are told- we certainly didn't, but at least some of us were given a wide choice of options
he renaissance that is taking place in Ireland at present would never have happened if it hadn't been for te old fogeys like Willie Clancy, Seamus Ennis, Pddy Tunney and Joe Heaney, and researchers like Lomax, Sean O'Boyle, Hugh Shields, Tommy Munnelly, and even earlier Seamus Delargy - they all went where youngsters need to be given the chance to go

I can't find the quote but someone (Raggy I think) repeated the mantra that folk isn't what Jim or others want it to be
Whoever said it - yes it is' I'm afraid
I don't "want it to be" aything - it is what it has been researched, identified and defined as being as being for at lest 150 years and a small and diminishing number of folkies who might want it to be something else are not going to chnge that until they can agree and win support for what and who has replaced it - wandering around chanting "nobody knows what folk song is any more" really doesn't hack it - folk song is far too well defined and recorded for
Anybody with doubts migh look in the magnificent 8 volume Greig Duncan Folk Song Collection or the mammoth James M Carpenter, English Scots and American on line folk song collection (or even the tiny 'Penguin Book of English Folk Songs) to find folk songs
If anybody has an alternative, I'd live to hear it
Up to now, Humpty Dumpty's "word mean what I want them to mean" law seems to be ruling the roost - with the inevitable results

as going to post this yesterday but I thought I'd wait for the dust to settle (is it my imagination or has a thread ion Bert Lloyd disappeared - (maybe I've been overdoing the takeaway Guinness)
Jim

e


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 May 20 - 02:15 AM

It's interesting that Argentina has a vibrant folk scene, and is a major part of its culture, with both singing and dancing, and even forms a major part of its tourist trade!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 22 May 20 - 01:15 PM

Yes Jeri- that seems a good idea


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: Jeri
Date: 22 May 20 - 09:23 AM

Jim Bainbridge, or anyone who's done discussing Jon Doran: I think it would make a great thread. "The future of folk music in a post-Covid-19 world".

I don't know why people seem so hesitant to start new threads.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 22 May 20 - 09:03 AM

Dick, I have taken a lot of advice in my time & acted accordingly, or not.
I would hope that what you and I & many others have done by example will have been influential over the years and has been good for the music's future- let's hope so anyway.
It's a period when a lot of things will need to change & folk music will be no exception- it can't go back to what it was a few months ago & I was just outlining what I think should happen...
ps don't think I'll take any notice of what Stanley Baldwin had to say- not one of my heroes


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 May 20 - 08:54 AM

very different times, raggy todaymany including many young are eager particpants in music as consumerism,not as a hobby. even the suggestion and the wording of this thread that one person gives hope for folk music has a flavour of pop stardom,that attitude is a late 20 century and 21st century phenomenon


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 May 20 - 08:48 AM

Jim , i suggest you listen to the clip.THERE IS NO HARM IN GIVING ADVICE , it does not have to be taken,
I wish i had had more people to have asked advice.
i did seek advice from and older person and he advised me to concentrate on uk trad material ,i am glad he gave me advice
.as for the rest of your post let us wait and see to quote stanley Baldwin


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 May 20 - 08:14 AM

"i doubt if it will survive with just a few people playing in each other houses"

Serious question for you Dick, just how did it survive for hundreds of years prior to the advent of folk clubs.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 22 May 20 - 07:04 AM

An example of "Hope for Irish folk music" - just posted yesterday, apparently :
https://youtu.be/kraCA8XjctI


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 22 May 20 - 06:15 AM

I have no idea who the subject of this discussion is, but hope the following may provoke thoughts about the music post-Covid 19?
Local events like sessions were thriving before Covid, so why does folk music need all these myriad festivals and clubs and other organised events at all?
As DnG says, folk music seemed to manage OK up till then & although there was plenty of collected material around at that stage, it took the likes of Lonnie Donegan to point many of us in the right direction. His music was accessible, unlike those sources... I do recall researching the EFDSS's collection in the 60s being more forbidding than Fort Knox- not like Youtube in that respect?

There was probably a time about 60 plus years ago when many in UK became aware of their own tradition and like myself tried to absorb it- we became involved in the folk clubs- from early childhood I was always aware of the songs of my own Tyneside but knew little of the Child Ballads, Northumbrian Minstrelsy - that knowledge came later, via the folk clubs.

Since then, the clubs have done us all a great service on a local basis, but I've never really understood the attraction of festivals without a distinct local & community basis- Ireland is good at this, and also at honouring respected musicians, and I think of the East Anglian & Scottish TMSA festivals as good models.
I cannot see the enjoyment in flying around the country listening to much the same super-folkies every weekend of summer although younger people have no doubt found these events to have other attractions?- there speaks an old codger!

I contributed an article some tears ago to 'Living Tradition'about folk music having its roots in the community & regretting the more recent negative influence of commerce & I stand by that.
I do folk clubs very rarely these days, and I do realise some people have made a career of it, and good luck to them. However, it's not really a job and I think the present emergency may be bringing all that to an end.
If the Covid-19 has the longterm effect of ending the nationwide club/festival scene, I would not regret it. Its future may be in the past- after all, it survived for centuries in communities before the 'revival' and taken with the huge increase in availability of song, story and music by digital means, there are more than enough young singers & musicians to continue the music on a local basis.
Most importantly, they should do it in their own way, without interference from us old codgers on Mudcat.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 May 20 - 05:49 AM

anyway back to jon doran, he is a lot better than i was at his age.
Dave,i disagree the principles of good organising are not age related,
festivals ,the best way to start for the inexperience and perhaps ask advice in the area of people who have experience
tart with a one day festival.
or as regards clubs or similiar a regular monthly venue call it what ever, but a monthly commitment is not so demanding, it is a mistake to bite off more than one can chew, keep it small build up gradually


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 May 20 - 03:52 AM

Oh, and it's no good telling them they need to organise events if we expect them to organise events like we did. They need to be given their heads to arrange them their own way and, probably, make their own mistakes. We can advise them.of course but how much is a 20 year old going to listen to the ramblings of a 70 year old?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 May 20 - 03:45 AM

I am sure it would survive with a few people playing in houses/barns/pubs because it did for thousands of years before folk clubs were invented. But we don't want it to just survive, we want it to flourish and to bring it to a bigger audience. That is where the youngsters come in. We have to face it, Dick, we are the old guard now. Our idea of a good time is not the same as a 20 year old's. While we enjoyed the folk clubs of the last revival, they may not. We need to hand the reins over to them. While keeping an eye on their driving of course ;-)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 May 20 - 03:00 AM

An exception is ireland where the government in the [past has poured money] into supprting tradtional music


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 May 20 - 02:54 AM

only if they realise that they have to organise events themselves , a few are but more are needed.
i doubt if it will survive with just a few people playing in each others houses, paradoxically once the music becomes heavily commercialised it seems to lose its closeness to its roots. the establishment and the media prefer commercial music to not question authority and not to have lyrics that require thought.
thinking is dangerous, let us take the seemingly innocous golden vanity this could be a metaphor for the bankers of the world today. They promise you the world, and when it's time to pay up, they leave you drowning
.on the subject of chosen ones this brings us to trump a player of the pink oboe


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 May 20 - 02:31 AM

Ah, ok. Thanks Nick. I was wrong about the change 120 years ago then but surely there was a big change in the first revival 60 years ago. That was when the revival put folk music into clubs and the whole folk scene as we now discuss it was born. In England anyway. So, folk clubs are a recent construct. Folk music was going for millennia before them and will continue long after. Those of us who have grown up with them and helped to nurture that scene will, understandably, mourn its passing. But the music is the important thing and it is youngsters like Jon who will have the ideas of how best to keep it alive. They are the hope for the future.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 May 20 - 01:53 AM

yes, indeed, Nick


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 21 May 20 - 07:00 PM

With the greatest respect Dave you are a bit off the mark. There have been collectors of songs since the seventeenth century and probably before. The term Folk Music is a relatively new term. The songs did not just happen they were composed, and often found their way on to contemporary street literature, or in fact originated there. Cecil Sharp with his mission to revive, came late to Folk Song. Baring Gould John and Lucy Broadwood pre dated him.
OK I'll stop there and suggest you do a bit of reading. Bert Lloyd Steve Roud etc. Try and avoid Harker and his Fakesong if you can, you may spend too much time throwing his book at the wall.
Meanwhile nowt much has changed for eons but medium and venue. The enemy of Folk Song or any song for that matter is silence. I do not think we're going to stop singing, and the rest is inevitable. Ask any performing singer/musician and you will be told that you do not choose music, it chooses you.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 May 20 - 04:56 PM

Sorry if I seem to be going off topic but please bear with me. I will get to the thread theme eventualy!

I'm going to have to have a think and sleep on this but I am getting the germ of an idea. Looking at the milestones that Dick very kindly provided it seems that prior to 1898, folk music just happened. For millennia it got along quite nicely but 122 years ago it started to be studied and collected. Less than 60 years after that date someone decided that folk music needed to be revived and so it was taken out of houses, pubs, barns and other public places and put into folk clubs. Another 60 years down the line and we are told it needs reviving again so it is coming out of folk clubs and being put elsewhere by media savvy and imaginative youngsters like Jon and Cohen! See, told you I'd get there :-)

Here is the bit I need to think about. 120 years ago there as a major change when folk music was brought to the attention of the collectors etc. 60 years later there was another major change with the folk revival and the birth of the folk club. 60 years later we are now up to date and due another major change. What is it to be?

Maybe acts like Jon and Granny's attic. Maybe pushing folk into mainstream media. Maybe using modern methods of distribution more effectively. Who knows, cos I don't! Any ideas?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 21 May 20 - 04:09 PM

Thanks.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 May 20 - 03:57 PM

martyn wyndham read


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 21 May 20 - 03:54 PM

Always got a good solid and honest performance from M W R

--------:--------

I can listen to Cyril Tawney, Burl Ives (yes there is a lot to learn!) and MWR.

--------:--------

i have no problem with acompaniment for songs, I prefer the way MWR and Nic Dow use it ...



Excuse my ignorance, but who is MWR?


DC


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 May 20 - 03:33 PM

rThings do not remain the same. 50 years ago I seldom saw a mandola, mandolin, banjo, accordian or Nicaraguan Nose Flute. Today all manner of instruments abound and I believe have benefited folk music. quote
no. i dont disagree, and may i remind people that we[ myself and my ex wife sue ]were one of the first people to introduce the clarinet and the first to use concertina and clarinet together.
,   i have no problem with acompaniment for songs, I prefer the way MWR and Nic Dow use it to others[ nic jones carthy] who stick a long instrumental in the middle of a narrative ballad, that is my prefernce and it has been one of the bits of advice i have given,like you i think Jon has potential and i have wished him success with his music. A MISTAKE THAT A LOT OF PERFOMERS MADE IN THE SEVENTIES WAS TO IMITATE MARTIN CARTH ,MORE LATTERLY THERE HAVE BEEN NIC JONES IMITATORS. TO SUCCEED YOU HAVE TO FIND YOUR OWN IDENTITY.by all means ccpy as a stepping stone but eventually you have to make your own style.
in the concertina world you could not confuse steve turner dick miles or lou killen peter bellamy brian peters damien barber for anyone else


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 May 20 - 03:24 PM

Folk music pre and post internet..

Folk music pre and post covid..

Add both together, then that's core future for keeping folk music alive and healthy...

Any surviving physical pubs, clubs, and festivals will be an added bonus.....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 May 20 - 03:19 PM

yes, as i understand it you are missing something , it[ what is generally understood to be traditional folk song and dance had to be revived that was why it was called a revival.
as i understand it there were a few isolated areas where people occasionally met in houses but it was virtually dead, in the 1950s[ thanks to Sharp] we used to sing these songs and do country dancing in primary schools.
The English Folk Dance and Song Society was founded in 1932 to preserve, promote and develop the English folk arts, and specifically song, tune and dance.

The organisation was created by the merger of the Folk-Song Society (founded 1898) and the English Folk Dance Society (founded 1911).

Here is a quick recap of some of our major milestones.
1898

Folk-Song Society founded to collect and preserve folk songs and tunes primarily from Britain and Ireland. Its membership included existing researchers Sabine Baring-Gould, Lucy Broadwood and Frank Kidson and many other researchers, academics and musicians.
1903

Cecil Sharp collects his first folk songs in Somerset. The composer Ralph Vaughan Williams starts collecting folk songs.
1911

English Folk Dance Society founded to both collect folk dance including Morris, sword and country dances, and to publish and teach them.
1930

Cecil Sharp House, the first dedicated folk arts centre in the UK, opens in Camden Town, London, as a memorial to Cecil Sharp following his death in 1924.
1932

EFDS and FSS merge to form the English Folk Dance and Song Society. Ralph Vaughan Williams becomes President.
1935

EFDSS hosts the world’s first International Folk Dance Festival in London.
1960
Sidmouth folk festival, starts 1954.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 May 20 - 03:17 PM

I get a distinct feeling of Deja Vue here.

Folk music is not what I wish it to be, it is not want Dave, Joe, Dick or Jim wishes.

However. What I see and hear week in week out pleases me, for the most part, yes I wish some people wouldn't bother and some people I normally take a trip to the bar or the bogs to avoid. But such is life.

When I first ventured into a folk club over 50 years ago it was very much the same, some performers pleased me some didn't. Many of those people from 50 years ago have now passed on to the great singaround in the sky or have putrefied, which is the reality.

Things do not remain the same. 50 years ago I seldom saw a mandola, mandolin, banjo, accordian or Nicaraguan Nose Flute. Today all manner of instruments abound and I believe have benefited folk music.

Other people will disagree with me but that doesn't mean I'm wrong it only means that they don't agree with me.

I had never heard of Jon Doran until I started reading this thread I am delighted he has shown an interest in the music I love and hope he continue to play and sing. If he can make a few bob along the way good luck to him.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 May 20 - 02:59 PM

But just what had died out, Dick? If there were no folk clubs or festivals prior to, let's say, 1950, then where was folk performed before? I would guess houses and pubs and, if that is the case, then it wasn't so much a revival as a birth. Or am I missing something?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 May 20 - 02:48 PM

After all, did the source singers need clubs and festivals?quote
that was why there had to be a uk folk revival , because it virtually died out


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 May 20 - 12:05 PM

Yes, we do need someone to take over from existing organisers but is that really the most important thing? Surely, unless you have an audience and someone to entertain them, there is little point in organising an event. I presume by organisers we are talking of clubs and festivals. Bear in mind that these are a recent construct and folk music has been going a lot longer than either. As long as people like Jon are performing, they will find an audience with or without formal organisation. After all, did the source singers need clubs and festivals?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 21 May 20 - 11:29 AM

Younger organisers are essential but also a critical mass of younger people as participants and audience.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 21 May 20 - 10:03 AM

It was at the Poppy Folk Club.
A few of the younger performers are organising. Fay Heald and Bryony Griffith spring to mind.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: Jeri
Date: 21 May 20 - 09:39 AM

You're 100% right about that, Dick. We've had things collapse because the same people ran it for years, and when, for whatever reason, they stopped, no one took over. There were artists, but no bookings.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 May 20 - 09:34 AM

the hope for folk music or the uk folk revival depends on younger people organising events, if they do not then there will be very little future


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Hope for folk music - Jon Doran!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 May 20 - 09:17 AM

Thanks Nick. That was great :-) Where was it?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
Next Page

  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 3 June 10:21 PM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.