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BS: UK thread, Politics and political

Dave the Gnome 13 May 20 - 01:03 PM
punkfolkrocker 13 May 20 - 12:38 PM
DMcG 13 May 20 - 12:10 PM
peteglasgow 13 May 20 - 11:28 AM
Dave the Gnome 13 May 20 - 11:06 AM
DMcG 13 May 20 - 10:52 AM
Jim Carroll 13 May 20 - 09:13 AM
Iains 13 May 20 - 08:45 AM
Iains 13 May 20 - 08:42 AM
Jim Carroll 13 May 20 - 08:35 AM
Jim Carroll 13 May 20 - 08:15 AM
Iains 13 May 20 - 08:02 AM
Jim Carroll 13 May 20 - 07:34 AM
Dave the Gnome 13 May 20 - 07:29 AM
Dave the Gnome 13 May 20 - 07:24 AM
Jim Carroll 13 May 20 - 07:16 AM
Steve Shaw 13 May 20 - 07:05 AM
Iains 13 May 20 - 06:19 AM
Steve Shaw 13 May 20 - 05:54 AM
Jim Carroll 13 May 20 - 05:32 AM
Jim Carroll 13 May 20 - 04:47 AM
DMcG 13 May 20 - 04:45 AM
peteglasgow 13 May 20 - 04:16 AM
Iains 13 May 20 - 04:09 AM
Iains 13 May 20 - 04:04 AM
DMcG 13 May 20 - 03:41 AM
Jim Carroll 13 May 20 - 03:39 AM
Jim Carroll 13 May 20 - 03:23 AM
Raggytash 12 May 20 - 04:01 PM
Iains 12 May 20 - 03:56 PM
punkfolkrocker 12 May 20 - 03:52 PM
Iains 12 May 20 - 03:37 PM
punkfolkrocker 12 May 20 - 01:54 PM
punkfolkrocker 12 May 20 - 01:51 PM
DMcG 12 May 20 - 01:40 PM
punkfolkrocker 12 May 20 - 01:38 PM
Raggytash 12 May 20 - 01:27 PM
punkfolkrocker 12 May 20 - 01:26 PM
Iains 12 May 20 - 01:14 PM
punkfolkrocker 12 May 20 - 12:40 PM
punkfolkrocker 12 May 20 - 12:30 PM
Iains 12 May 20 - 12:27 PM
Steve Shaw 12 May 20 - 12:03 PM
Dave the Gnome 12 May 20 - 11:37 AM
punkfolkrocker 12 May 20 - 11:19 AM
punkfolkrocker 12 May 20 - 10:48 AM
Jim Carroll 12 May 20 - 09:49 AM
Donuel 12 May 20 - 09:39 AM
peteglasgow 12 May 20 - 09:28 AM
Steve Shaw 12 May 20 - 08:34 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 May 20 - 01:03 PM

Very good article on Reuters Forgotten victims section. Couple of snippets -

It's a bit long but well worth the effort. A damning indictment of the mismanagement of the crisis in care homes done in a poignant and personal way.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 May 20 - 12:38 PM

So.. it's started as predicted...

Teachers & Heads Union's legitimate concerns about safety in the workplace are being dismissed by Govt
as "scaremongering"...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-52650259

"But in the House of Commons, Education Secretary Gavin Williamson warned against "scaremongering" over safety.

He said "the disadvantaged will suffer the most" with closed schools.

"Sometimes scaremongering, making people fear, is really unfair
and not a welcome pressure to be placed on families, children and teachers alike," he told MPs,
in questions over the announcements on opening schools.
"


Let's see how the right wing media and internet tory fanboys
follow up attack with this line of union bashing...

..and ffs.. since when have the tories ever had any genuine consideration for "the disadvantaged"..

..apart from only when it suits their cynical propagandising...


[btw.. BBC red button earlier attributed similar comments to Grant Shapps, but this is no longer being reported..???]


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 13 May 20 - 12:10 PM

The row continues!

It turns out that, when No 10 claimed Sir Keir Starmer of selectively quoting from government guidance on care homes, it was highlighting the wrong quote. The section that the quote was taken from was

During normal day-to-day activities facemasks do not provide protection from respiratory viruses, such as COVID-19 and do not need to be worn by staff in any of these settings. Facemasks are only recommended to be worn by infected individuals when advised by a healthcare worker, to reduce the risk of transmitting the infection to other people. It remains very unlikely that people receiving care in a care home or the community will become infected.


And Keir Starmer's quotation was exact.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: peteglasgow
Date: 13 May 20 - 11:28 AM

lower orders eh? sorry, your grace - i never realised you had come among us. we are honoured.....you are so great, so clever, so wise.....and i never realised. we are not worthy....but thank you, thank you.....!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 May 20 - 11:06 AM

Thank you DMcG. Another prime example of the truth according to Johnson. Of course we all now what the response will be. Look! Labour antisemitism! ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 13 May 20 - 10:52 AM

A nice little row is developing about whether Boris misled the House when Keir Starmer asked about a document in place until March 12th. Here is the Hansard entry:


Keir Starmer (Holborn and St Pancras) (Lab)
I join the Prime Minister in thanking our nurses and all those on the frontline, and send my condolences to all the families of those who have died of coronavirus, including Belly Mujinga, as the Prime Minister referenced—a ticket officer who we learnt this week died from covid-19 in awful circumstances.

In his speech on Sunday, the Prime Minister said that we need to rapidly reverse the awful epidemic in our care homes, but earlier this year, and until 12 March, the Government’s own official advice was—and I am quoting from it:

“It remains very unlikely that people receiving care in a care home…will become infected.”

Yesterday’s Office for National Statistics figures showed that at least 40% of all deaths from covid-19 were in care homes. Does the Prime Minister accept that the Government were too slow to protect people in care homes?

The Prime Minister
No, Mr Speaker, and it was not true that the advice said that.

======

Keir Starmer then sent a letter asking for the statement to be corrected, quoting the exact document of concern.

The Downing Street lobby briefing has now rejected that letter because in his question Starmer talked about it remaining the case that people in care were unlikely to be infected (the document does not use the word “remains” at that point) and the source said the full quote made it clear that this assurance covered a period where there was no community transmission. Starmer did not include the word “therefore”, the source said.

=====

People will of course form their own conclusions, but it doesn't seem much of a defence that he left out the word 'therefore'. The section quoted in the letter is:

This guidance is intended for the current position in the UK where there is currently no transmission of Covid-19 in the community. It is therefore very unlikely that anyone receiving care in a care home or the community will become infected.

So we really need to decide what 'current' means. If it meant the instant the document was issued, then it becomes vacuous: the phrases cease to have any significance as soon as there is any transmission in the community at all, and of course there was already some at the time it was published, albeit at a low level. A more sensible interpretation is that it would continue to apply until the government withdrew it, because you could make the case it was only at that point the government considered the community transmission to be at the level it was significant.

But the government spokesman appears to be following a third path: some person decides when the transmission rate in the community is high enough, and at that point the clause not longer applies. With no warning or statement at all from anyone, suddenly sections of the advice no longer apply but you as a reader have no way of telling whether it does or not.

I hardly think the spokesman defence is going to stand the test of time.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 May 20 - 09:13 AM

"Sorry. the lower orders cannot be trusted with such data"
Only the mental midgets apparently - makes sense !
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 13 May 20 - 08:45 AM

Can you give us the number of your hot-line to the upper-echelons - might come in handy
Sorry. the lower orders cannot be trusted with such data


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 13 May 20 - 08:42 AM

Try this bit of evasion by serial liar Johnson who has just 'explained' the 10,000 unexplained deaths in British care homes by describing them as "tragic'
"Oh to be in England" - definitely not


Funy you should mention that:

https://principia-scientific.org/scotlands-real-corona-virus-crisis/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A

    [Imperial College epidemiologist Neil] Ferguson was behind the disputed research that sparked the mass culling of eleven million sheep and cattle during the 2001 outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease. He also predicted that up to 150,000 people could die. There were fewer than 200 deaths. . . .

    In 2002, Ferguson predicted that up to 50,000 people would likely die from exposure to BSE (mad cow disease) in beef. In the U.K., there were only 177 deaths from BSE.

    In 2005, Ferguson predicted that up to 150 million people could be killed from bird flu. In the end, only 282 people died worldwide from the disease between 2003 and 2009.

    In 2009, a government estimate, based on Ferguson’s advice, said a “reasonable worst-case scenario” was that the swine flu would lead to 65,000 British deaths. In the end, swine flu killed 457 people in the U.K.

    Last March, Ferguson admitted that his Imperial College model of the COVID-19 disease was based on undocumented, 13-year-old computer code that was intended to be used for a feared influenza pandemic, rather than a coronavirus. Ferguson declined to release his original code so other scientists could check his results. He only released a heavily revised set of code last week, after a six-week delay.

    So the real scandal is: Why did anyone ever listen to this guy?


https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2020/05/08/so-the-real-scandal-is-why-did-anyone-ever-listen-to-this-guy/

Not too clever in your backyard either, but I have already told you this some days ago,or perhaps it was deleted.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/05/12/irish-government-under-fire-over-covid-19-deaths-in-care-homes
and


https://www.euronews.com/2020/05/08/the-deadly-impact-of-covid-19-on-europe-s-care-home

Try putting your wild accusations in the wider context!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 May 20 - 08:35 AM

Incidentally - why is your mangling of what you claim ERHC decide on more valid than your claim that the DPP were biased when they charged Robinson or the Poice's reason for Arresting the same feller for assault ?
All of a sudden you've given yourself the right to claim that they are correct not to pursue en enquiry while on the other hand to demand they be punished for wasting public money when they enquire into an obviously bent-as-a- corkscrew
Can you give us the number of your hot-line to the upper-echelons - might come in handy
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 May 20 - 08:15 AM

"Now, where were we??"
You evading every single point made apparently
Try this bit of evasion by serial liar Johnson who has just 'explained' the 10,000 unexplained deaths in British care homes by describing them as "tragic'
"Oh to be in England" - definitely not
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 13 May 20 - 08:02 AM

Sorry, but you're not getting away with that. We are not stupid
NO COMMENT!

Divert and distract. Bozzer and his band of murky men are making a pigs ear of managing the health crisis. Look! Labour antisemitism! The Tories are being investigated for Islamophobia. Look! Labour antisemitism!

apportion blame where blame is due I always say
For your delectation and delight the guilty parties trying a bit of whataboutism. I suggest you take issue with them!

From: Raggytash - PM
Date: 12 May 20 - 04:01 PM
I suppose that they would pay the piper calls the tune, perhaps this is the reason that the Equalities Watchdog Commission has taken the decision not be investigate the Islamophobia that is rampant within the Conservative Party.

From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 13 May 20 - 03:23 AM

" Islamophobia that is rampant within the Conservative Party.


Now, where were we??


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 May 20 - 07:34 AM

It's a friggin' farce and always has been
Israel, America and Russia now have a fee run to deciding who Britain's politicians should be and the ERHC needs to be very careful as we have a queue of nutters lined up to demand that setting up inquiries into Corrupt Brexiteers and thuggish Nazis who beat up members of the public should be punishable by having their fingernails pulled out
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 May 20 - 07:29 AM

I bet some people wished they had not etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 May 20 - 07:24 AM

Divert and distract. Bozzer and his band of murky men are making a pigs ear of managing the health crisis. Look! Labour antisemitism! The Tories are being investigated for Islamophobia. Look! Labour antisemitism!

I bet some people who an they had not started crying wolf so long ago.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 May 20 - 07:16 AM

It will be a total farce if it is not allowed
The Accusations were made several years ago ant the fact that it has been totally ignored since then while rabbid calls for Corbyn to be burned alive on no evidence whatsoever have never stopped
The Muslim Council has called for enquires several times - the last time was i March
The fact that those calls have been ignored is Islamophobic in itself
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 May 20 - 07:05 AM

Sorry, but you're not getting away with that. We are not stupid. A quote from the Mail, with some horse' s mouth stuff:

The EHRC said it would allow the internal [Tory Party] probe to take its course, but reserved legal powers to intervene if it was unsatisfied with the conduct of the inquiry.   

'We have given very careful consideration to complaints raised about discrimination and Islamophobia in the Conservative Party,' a spokesman said.

'We have concluded, in the light of the decision by the party to institute an independent investigation, that it would not be proportionate to initiate our own investigation at this stage.

'If we are not satisfied with progress or how the investigation is conducted we will review our decision and do not rule out the use of our legal powers.'


You said that there was no investigation pending. Either you were trying to lie to us or you were speaking out of ignorance. Care to tell us us which, or are you going to carry on sidestepping?

And if you look back over the last few months you will find plenty of allegations about Tory Islamophobia. You can rattle on all you like about Labour antisemitism, which IS being independently investigated. Perhaps you'd care to await its outcome (rather than shooting off about smoke and fire, etc.), which, in case you haven't noticed, is the way we do things in this country.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 13 May 20 - 06:19 AM

The equalities watchdog has dropped plans to launch an inquiry into Tory Islamophobia.

Obviously not enough smoke to justify an enquiry unlike the ongoing investigation into Labour's alleged antisemitism.
and it is best we do not look too closely at starmers record of turning a blind eye to the naughtiness of a certain demographic when he was DPP

From the Times: Keir Starmer, QC, the Director of Public Prosecutions, said that men who groomed teenagers for sex had escaped justice for decades because police, prosecutors and the courts failed to understand the nature of the abuse.
Mr Starmer has ordered a comprehensive restructuring of the Crown Prosecution Service’s response to sex grooming, designed to raise the number of convictions.
An Inconvenient truth as al gore would say!
The reforms come after an in-depth review of the CPS’s initial reluctance to charge men involved in a notorious sex-grooming network in Rochdale, Greater Manchester.
They will apply to the handling of all current and historic cases of sexual exploitation involving girls and boys,


ALL on Labour's watch.
A recent government report on the same subject has been kept from the public because the findings are so explosive. But an online petition will force the government to address the issue in Parliament, despite their constant prevarication and failure to adhere to their own guidelines.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grooming-gangs-review-sajid-javid-release-petition-home-office-a9483796.html
An inconvenient truth as al gore would say


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 May 20 - 05:54 AM

"Obviously trying to accuse the Tories of similar crimes is but a groundless slur as no investigation is pending"

Non seq and untrue in any case. The Tories are carrying out an internal investigation into Islamophobia in their ranks, and the Equality and Human Rights Commission is monitoring it closely and they will intervene if they are not satisfied that the investigation is being properly conducted. Comment is free but facts are sacred.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 May 20 - 05:32 AM

I've just thought of a new clause to the definition to add to the growing list being invented by Iareali terrorism supporters
"If it's something you can accuse the Labour Party of without proof - it's antisemitic
This does not apply to right-wing people or parties
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 May 20 - 04:47 AM

"They have yet to release their findings."
Probably because they were found to be groundless
You haven't aomment on the serial racism of the party you fanatically defend - all based on documented fact aand none inquired into
Why on earth should you when absolutism is far safer
Claims of 'antisemitism' against a party largely created by Jews fleeing Eropen pogroms, started within four weeks of Corbyn decalring his support for the Palestinian People against Israeli state terrorism - probably a coincidence, of course !!!
Not a shred of evidence that Antisemitism is a serious problem has emerged since
NEVER ACTED ON
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 13 May 20 - 04:45 AM

Obviously essential workers have learnt to deal with the problem

Have they? I haven't seen any figures that support that. We know, for example, that Uber drivers are at significantly higher risk of infection than the general population. Have we any figures of whether their households are at heightened risk compared to the general population? Given that coming in contact with an infected person is how you get it, I would assume they are, but haven't seen any analysis.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: peteglasgow
Date: 13 May 20 - 04:16 AM

did we ever get an inquiry into the Windrush incidents and the hostile environment for british citizens? when discrimination and heartless bigotry was official government policy


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 13 May 20 - 04:09 AM

It is important to recognize, for example, that society is not partitioned, or easily partitionable, by age, in the workplace or in the home. A lot of homes, for example, are mixed across several generations.

Obviously essential workers have learnt to deal with the problem otherwise the supermarkets would have emptied weeks ago and you and many others would be starving.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 13 May 20 - 04:04 AM

I suppose that they would pay the piper calls the tune, perhaps this is the reason that the Equalities Watchdog Commission has taken the decision not be investigate the Islamophobia that is rampant within the Conservative Party.
The extreme left would say that (as Mandy Rice-Davies was wont to say) to deflect attention away from the fact that it is the Labour party being investigated for anti semitism by the Equality and Human Rights Commission
In May 2019, the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) announced an inquiry into whether Labour had "unlawfully discriminated against, harassed or victimised people because they are Jewish".
They have yet to release their findings.
No smoke without fire!
Obviously trying to accuse the Tories of similar crimes is but a groundless slur as no investigation is pending

Was not chucklebutty elevated to the Lords for producing a whitewash
when an internal investigation concluded?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 13 May 20 - 03:41 AM

Statistics Save Lives

A performance can be found on https://www.wiltshirecreative.co.uk/whats-on/wiltshire-creative-connects/louise-jordan

Used properly, she - and Florence Nightingale who inspired this song - are quite right. Used properly, science and maths can save lives. But unfortunately, of course, they can also be abused. If you lose sight of the fact that a mathematical model is a model and not reality, you can end up costing lives very easily.   It is important to recognise, for example, that society is not partitioned, or easily partitionable, by age, in the workplace or in the home. A lot of homes, for example, are mixed across several generations.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 May 20 - 03:39 AM

I've been told often enough - while we respond to this feller he's gonna keep ignoring it so we may as well use him to put his party where it belongs
It's not often you are handed a 'live-'un' as an on-the-spot example to illustrate what you mean
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 May 20 - 03:23 AM

" Islamophobia that is rampant within the Conservative Party.
Rather puts paid to the shite about the Tories worrying about racial and ethnic discrimination once and for all, I think
The Tory Party is the breeding ground of racial and ethnic discrimination - it always was and always will by
The Conservative 'Right Club' ser up prior to W.W.2. set up by Conservative Archibald Ramsey to 'crush the Jewish menace', campaigned into the war and organised a provisional government for "when Herr Hitler won his rightful fight against this threat"   
Ramsey and others were imprisoned during the war, but later returned to Parliament and continued to campaign against the Jews, despite six million of them having been exterminated by his preferred leader
HIS LEGACY CONTINUES UP TO THE PRESENT DAY
AS DO ITS NEAR RELATIVES
AND ANOTHER
There have never been enquirers into any of these atrocities and there never will be, which rather puts the virulent and continuing attacks an Labour so-called "anti-semitism" into context
Even if a fraction of it had any basis (until it can be proved that Lambour members attack the Jewish People , it never will have) it measures minutely next to Tories race-hating giant
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 May 20 - 04:01 PM

I suppose that they would pay the piper calls the tune, perhaps this is the reason that the Equalities Watchdog Commission has taken the decision not be investigate the Islamophobia that is rampant within the Conservative Party.


Link


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 12 May 20 - 03:56 PM

deflect, deny, distract, and shift all blame...
Is that a Labour party political Broadcast?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 May 20 - 03:52 PM

deflect, deny, distract, and shift all blame...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 12 May 20 - 03:37 PM

Be honest.. tories need the majority to be stupid, and a bit racist, useful idiots
to grasp and maintain power...

I guess that guarantees a further sojourn in the wilderness. Some just never learn!

meanwhile back to reality.
An interesting article on Covid-19 with some educational tables that make the case for relaxing lockdown for all but the vulnerable, and getting most people back to work.

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/businessreview/2020/04/09/adjusting-covid-19-expectations-to-the-age-profile-of-deaths/
The figures used are raw. There are differences in what is recorded and the way it is recorded, both over   time annd bbbetween coutries. To take the raw figures the risk increases with age. For the middle aged there is no way of determining co-morbidities such as obesity, diabetes, COPD, etc. They obviously exist and impact the figures, but the detail is not there to assign numerical values. It is likely the true morbidity for younger age groups is actually lower than shown for fit people.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 May 20 - 01:54 PM

apologies - that post should have been addressed to DMcG ...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 May 20 - 01:51 PM

Raggy - since the rapid dominance of global social media,
the Alt Right propagandist influencers are targeting the UK as a quasi US state...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 12 May 20 - 01:40 PM

I said I would post a redacted form of the poster being given out in Southampton once I knew it was genuine.

The similarity to the sections of the US protesting lockdown is remarkable.

As to your logic question Raggytash: it can't be explained because there is none. That is not being abusive or snide, it is literally the case. The idea is to do what they think will statistically give the desired result (whether it will or not is another matter). Within all those people, there will be some where what is being asked for is logically absurd, but that doesn't matter, statistically speaking, because such oddities are part of the stats.

When you look at real people with real lives, of course, it matters greatly to them, but when you just look at, say, one million people as a whole, they get lost in the numbers.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 May 20 - 01:38 PM

My wife is a reception/year 1 teacher.. she's nearly 60..

and the tories will deliberately put her in harms way with no PPE...

At no point has any tory minister, or adviser,
even mentioned only deploying younger more virus resistant teachers from June 1st...???

Appallingly fukwitted callous murderous tory govt planning...

Yet the teachers unions will be demonised by the right for daring to advocate protecting school staff...!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 May 20 - 01:27 PM

I just received an email which brilliantly shows just how irrational the government thinking is.

A friend is a primary school teacher. The government wants her to take on a class of 15 four year olds. BUT she is being told she cannot see her own grandchildren of the same age.

Now perhaps someone on the right here could explain that because I'm damned if I can see the logic.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 May 20 - 01:26 PM

Be honest.. tories need the majority to be stupid, and a bit racist, useful idiots
to grasp and maintain power...

You right wingers depend on populist media like the Mail
to do your dirty work,
in creating the cultural conditions to keep their readership as stupid and racist as possible...

But of course you would flatteringly / cynically call them all "smart voters"
to achieve your ends of political domination...

.. you can't fool us....


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 12 May 20 - 01:14 PM

As crap and disappointing as Labour can be at their worst, there's still no better alternative...

Yeah! That why the Labour labelled "deplorable, stupid, racist" majority put the tories in government and labour are the governed.
Its a tough world outside the bubble.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 May 20 - 12:40 PM

"Yet constantly you support Labour"

As crap and disappointing as Labour can be at their worst, there's still no better alternative...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 May 20 - 12:30 PM

My mrs has a similar arguing style to the tories..

She'll never admit she's wrong - saying the first thing that comes into her head,
to deflect, deny, distract, and shift all blame to me..

Then she sulkily play the victim, still trying to get my sympathy, and her own way..

If that don't work, she'll carry on sulking just to punish me for daring to point out
she was in the wrong in the first place...

I've had nearly 40 years experience dealing with this,
which has helped make me such a perceptive judge of tory tactics...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 12 May 20 - 12:27 PM

I hate to be perennially and terminally disappointed...

Yet constantly you support Labour and rail against brexit ???????????.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 May 20 - 12:03 PM

I wasn't remotely expecting logic and consisistency, pfr. I hate to be perennially and terminally disappointed...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 May 20 - 11:37 AM

A half decent opposition was doomed to failure from the point that Corbyn attracked the rabid hatred of the right-wing press

That can't be right, Jim. After all, if the press hate the left wing, why would they be helping them to cause confusion now? Surely that nice fluffy Mr Johnson and his supporters can't be looking for a scape goat can they? Not that they have done any wrong of course... ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 May 20 - 11:19 AM

In other words, paraphrasing Machiavelli,
(a notable earliest tory party adviser..)

"The bellends justify the meanies"...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 May 20 - 10:48 AM

Steve - let's not waste time expecting logic and consistency
from fanatical propagandists,
whose prime directive is to win by any means;
no matter how unfair or foul...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 May 20 - 09:49 AM

A half decent opposition was doomed to failure from the point that Corbyn attracked the rabid hatred of the right-wing press and combined with 'New Labour dross and a little assistance from Israel, managed to paint a picture of an inept party which had abandoned its former internationalist principles
The youngsters weren't fooled and flocked to the party - most of them remain
The latest leader chances of filling in Corbyn's giant shoes is indicated by the fact that our resident right-wing M.Ms are treating him like a long lost brother
It will be interesting to see the reaction of the public after the fiaso of Brexit and the continuing fiasco that. rather than fighting the pandemic, stands to turn it into a killing field
And then will come the recession where everybody but the rich will be told they have to tighten their belts
You may be able to foll some of the people some of the time, but there is a limit on how far this dangerously crass bunch can continue to lie and con

Now we will be told by someone who hates the British Press, hates the British judiciary system, thinks the British Police are bias and corrupt and despises the slightly less than half who voted to stay in Europe that it's "Anglo-phobic' to criticise the clowns
Let's see if he can get his other mask on in time :-)
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Donuel
Date: 12 May 20 - 09:39 AM

It's a jungle out there
People sowin confusion everywhere
No one one seems to care, well I do HEY
who's in charge here?

It's a jungle out there
Poison in the very air we breathe
You know whats in the water that you drink
Well I do, its ..so.. crazy
People think I'm crazy that I worry all the time
If you paid attention you'd be worried too
You better pay attention or this world we love so much

Might.. Just.. Kill You

I could be wrong now......But I don't think so

Cuz there's a jungle out there
It's a jungle out there


Randy Newman


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: peteglasgow
Date: 12 May 20 - 09:28 AM

sadly, that has been clear for quite a long time, steve


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 May 20 - 08:34 AM

So the opposition is completely useless, ineffectual, totally sidelined, consigned to history, utterly confused, permanently trashed, unelectable for generations. If they really are as bad as all that, am I out of order in thinking that any member of the far right who shows a weird and sustained obsession with them must be, er, slightly mad...?


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