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BS: UK thread, Politics and political

Donuel 16 Jun 20 - 04:53 PM
Donuel 16 Jun 20 - 04:48 PM
DMcG 16 Jun 20 - 03:46 PM
punkfolkrocker 16 Jun 20 - 02:08 PM
Jim Carroll 16 Jun 20 - 02:06 PM
Jim Carroll 16 Jun 20 - 08:31 AM
DMcG 16 Jun 20 - 07:46 AM
Rain Dog 16 Jun 20 - 04:50 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Jun 20 - 04:33 AM
peteglasgow 16 Jun 20 - 02:33 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Jun 20 - 12:01 PM
Nigel Parsons 15 Jun 20 - 11:48 AM
DMcG 15 Jun 20 - 11:07 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Jun 20 - 11:01 AM
Doug Chadwick 15 Jun 20 - 10:11 AM
punkfolkrocker 14 Jun 20 - 10:35 AM
Backwoodsman 14 Jun 20 - 08:06 AM
DMcG 14 Jun 20 - 07:54 AM
DMcG 14 Jun 20 - 07:51 AM
Backwoodsman 14 Jun 20 - 07:44 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Jun 20 - 07:10 AM
Nigel Parsons 14 Jun 20 - 05:49 AM
Backwoodsman 14 Jun 20 - 02:56 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Jun 20 - 02:49 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Jun 20 - 02:37 AM
punkfolkrocker 13 Jun 20 - 04:55 PM
Nigel Parsons 13 Jun 20 - 04:22 PM
punkfolkrocker 13 Jun 20 - 02:49 PM
Nigel Parsons 13 Jun 20 - 02:36 PM
Jim Carroll 13 Jun 20 - 01:28 PM
punkfolkrocker 13 Jun 20 - 10:49 AM
Jim Carroll 13 Jun 20 - 10:39 AM
punkfolkrocker 13 Jun 20 - 10:35 AM
Jim Carroll 13 Jun 20 - 07:05 AM
Jim Carroll 13 Jun 20 - 03:36 AM
DMcG 13 Jun 20 - 03:31 AM
Monique 13 Jun 20 - 03:07 AM
Jim Carroll 13 Jun 20 - 03:04 AM
peteglasgow 13 Jun 20 - 02:06 AM
peteglasgow 13 Jun 20 - 01:57 AM
Steve Shaw 12 Jun 20 - 07:56 PM
punkfolkrocker 12 Jun 20 - 07:49 PM
punkfolkrocker 12 Jun 20 - 07:47 PM
An Buachaill Caol Dubh 12 Jun 20 - 07:15 PM
peteglasgow 12 Jun 20 - 05:00 PM
An Buachaill Caol Dubh 10 Jun 20 - 03:13 PM
punkfolkrocker 10 Jun 20 - 02:20 PM
Raggytash 10 Jun 20 - 01:59 PM
An Buachaill Caol Dubh 10 Jun 20 - 01:37 PM
Jim Carroll 10 Jun 20 - 12:41 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 04:53 PM

Dexamthasone. Intensol TM
Rx only


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 04:48 PM

Oxford University found that the steroid dextro... saves the lives of 33% of the most seriously ill.

(don't tell the yanks)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 03:46 PM

Yes, it seems it helps about 1 in eight of the seriously ill. So welcome progress and significant, but it is still a long way from a cure or vaccine.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 02:08 PM

Jim - not a cure, but potentially life saving for some recovering patients...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 02:06 PM

Missed the news but there seems to have been a mjor breakthrough infinding a possibble cure for Covid - it's baan around for ages pparently
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 08:31 AM

" Under the PR system 75% of the people who actually voted did not appear to vote for them."
The PR system was devised to ascertain that all voters get a representative say the running of their country - way -way more democratic than the first past the post system that was adopted by the six counties when they decided on a Protestant State'
Nooking at pecentage increases, Sinn Fein would have emerged a clear winner had they been able to afford to enter more candidates - money is the fence they fell at, not popularity
Today's accounting makes them a few points behind the winners, Fianna Fail and way ahead of Finna Gael - The Greens lurk in obscurity, unfortunately, yet they hold all the cards - there is registered opposition to coalition from both of the main parties
The leaders have sacrificed democracy and and national stability at the political expediency altar
After the Labour betrayal I and many historical Labour supporters swore not to vote for them again - I've just added the Greens to that list
I would rather not vote that support the other two
There's nothing "weird" about principles - you need to judge what would have happened on a level playing field
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 07:46 AM

UK could lose right to share security and business data with EU after Brexit, minister admits

James Brokenshire insisted the government remained “positive” that agreement would be reached, saying: “It is self-evidently in the interests of both side that the adequacy decision is in place by the end of the year.”

This is a classic "Prisoner's Dilemma" game: while it might be 'self evidently' best to reach one outcome, reaching that requires a level of trust in the other player that is simply not there and without it you end up in the situation where both players choose an inferior option.   Cummings is reportedly very keen on game theory: it is a pity some other Ministers and back-benchers seem completely unaware of it.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Rain Dog
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 04:50 AM

"people's choice" and "true winners" ?

I know that you have some weird way of counting votes but that is taking things a bit too far. Under the PR system 75% of the people who actually voted did not appear to vote for them.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 04:33 AM

Ireland is now facing a coaltion Government whose sole purpose is to overturn the people's choice at the last election - a rag-bag army made up of Fianna Fail, a party which has overseen vulture capitalism, Fianna Gael, founded by Nazis, and the Greens - an unknown one-shot lover who has yet to make up its mind what it wants to do about all the problems Ireland has accumulated
Already there is discussion of 'the next election' - hardly hope for the future
The Labour party spectacularly threw way significant gains made by progressive policies and a principled approach by burying itself in a coaltion with the worst - the offspring of the Blueshirts
Some people need hard lessons before they learn anything
I have reservations about the true winners in the last election but we know what they stand for and can choose on thet basis (nobody emerged from 'The Troubles' with clean hands - Britain had the dirtiest of the lot)
Interesting times
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: peteglasgow
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 02:33 AM

i reckon we could/shouldespecially now when right clearly means wrong.   forget the terms left and right. i've supported several groups in my time from swp to scottish socia;ists, snp, (usally in the )labour party and greens. within these i've met many people who are at various points on the political spectrum. - 'left' doesn't really work to describe all those people (especially the labour party)

where you stand on the important issues of the day - the environment, racism, scottish league reconstruction, brexitor the feckless, lying tory government - is not dependent on a left/right analysis.


how about progressive/reactionary

open/closed

decent/selfish

as far as supporters of the far right in government go - fascist/brain dead

.....whatever words we choose it's far more complex in all of us but 'left' is just shorthand

b
('brexitor the feckless' was a genuine typo that i left in as it amused me - a big dumb monster who raoms the land breaking stuff


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jun 20 - 12:01 PM

"Only from the viewpoint of the left wing."
Ask tehe police who got the shit kicked out of them by thugs giving the nazi salute at an anti statues march a couple of days ago
HERE
Would you like to offer a left equivalent Nigel
Right wing thuggery has been on the rise since Brexit - all prooudly claiming to be Patriots
Johnson'a right wing racist nutter - if your party's rotten at the top what else can you expect
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Jun 20 - 11:48 AM

..and is it mere coincidence that our most obsessive 'nutters' tend to be right wing...?????

Only from the viewpoint of the left wing.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Jun 20 - 11:07 AM

From a live feed:
PM urges EU to agree Brexit trade deal by ‘end of summer’

The UK has urged the European Union to reach a post-Brexit free trade agreement “by the end of the summer” as Boris Johnson held talks with Brussels chiefs.

The UK had previously indicated that it could walk away from talks with the EU if the “broad outline” of a deal was not visible by the June meeting. But officials played down the prospect of “drama” at the summit, which was being conducted by video link.


I find that slightly positive, though still think a 'no-deal' most likely. Dropping the bluster of stopping talks and switching all the UK focus to no-deal planning is welcome, as is the implicit recognition of how important a deal is for the UK. The EU stance has barely changed since the outset, so the UK is well aware of what the EU will or will not compromise on. No doubt this will be presented as the UK doing everything possible to get a deal if the no-deal is the final situation, but there are glimmers of opportunities in this.

I insist on saying "no-deal" rather than WTO rules, by the way, because parts of the WTO rules include a dispute resolution mechanism in the evert of disagreements, and at the moment that is not operating. Established deals under WTO rules can bumble along for the most part, but setting up new ones will almost certain require disputes to be resolved.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jun 20 - 11:01 AM

Johnson has been forced into the launching of an enquiry into racial inequality in Britain
Amazing what a dead statue will do
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 15 Jun 20 - 10:11 AM


..and is it mere coincidence that our most obsessive 'nutters' tend to be right wing...?????


While I wouldn't go as far as to use the description 'nutter', I can think of at least one person here, straight away, who has declared himself as being left-wing and is most definitely obsessive.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jun 20 - 10:35 AM

Mudcat has it's 'characters'..

In real life we've encountered genuine obsessive 'nutters'
who do your head in after only a short time in their social company..

The question hanging over our mudcatters like this - is...

Are they for real, with diagnosable disorders,
or only acting like it to deliberately create distraction and disruption...???

..and is it mere coincidence that our most obsessive 'nutters' tend to be right wing...?????


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Jun 20 - 08:06 AM

DMcG - it’s what someone does when they have nothing else to contribute.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Jun 20 - 07:54 AM

HTML typo there.

... in Colin. To me nit-picking does seem a very Colin-like activity. It is wise to do so on legal texts and official statements to notice when they say 'banned' and when 'not approved', but it is not really appropriate for informal conversation like this.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Jun 20 - 07:51 AM

I'm no great fan of the "What we do in the shadows" comedy, but they do have a great idea in

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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Jun 20 - 07:44 AM

QED. Thanks Nigs.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Jun 20 - 07:10 AM

Stop nit-picking a passing comment Nigel - it doesn't become you
All societies, as they change tend to remove traces of past errors was the real poin - not where I put hyphens
To clarify my archaeologist point once and for all
The now late Thomas Cook was one of the first tour companies, and one of the last to take on the feature of providing authentic information on the places they covered - they gave all the appearance of respecting those countries
I would tend to accept the information given by one of their professional guides, if it's all the same by you - he seemed to know his stuff, at least more than we did about the fascinating history of that beautiful country
I've never really come down from those two weeks
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Jun 20 - 05:49 AM

BWM: Could be something as simple as a missed hyphen in Jim’s post. ‘Archaeology-tour guide’
Changing "archaeologist tour guide" to "archaeology-tour guide" requires more than the addition of a hyphen. And Jim's post (about 7 minutes before yours) shows that it was not a typo.

Jim: Do you honestly view history as one civilization turning the lights off and handing the keys over to the next occupants as their civilization died off Nigel
It was a figure of speech

No, I do not take that view, but your post made it appear that you did. If it was just a 'figure of speech' then it was a poorly chosen one.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Jun 20 - 02:56 AM

Could be something as simple as a missed hyphen in Jim’s post. ‘Archaeology-tour guide’ puts a completely different complexion on those three words. A guide for an archaeology-tour doesn’t need to be an archaeologist any more than a guide for a Westminster-Abbey tour needs to be a member of the clergy, or a guide for a Windsor Castle-tour needs to be a member of the royal family.

But, of course, Nitpicking Nigel knows this perfectly well. His comments are nothing more than a red-herring, the typical diversion-tactics of the Right, although he’ll never have the honesty, or the cojones to admit it.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Jun 20 - 02:49 AM

"Christians could not have taken over from the pharaohs."
Pedantism indeed - the English always did know more than those they colonized, that's why they were 'the masters'
Do you honestly view history as one civilization turning the lights off and handing the keys over to the next occupants as their civilization died off Nigel
It was a figure of speech
The point I was making was how long this sort o thing was going on
I might well have used Henry Vlll removing evidence of Catholicism
Over here we have examples of Pagan sites being either claimed by the church of removed - I'll tell you about our Holy Well sometime
Incidentally - the guide in question was one of several employed by Tomas Cook, whose prctice it was to employ knowledgeable, professionals to make their trips up the Nole 'special'
At the time we went, that was beginning to disappear due to other companies introducing the monster cruise ships that do the trips now
Stop being smug
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jun 20 - 02:37 AM

Nigel.

No, but it should have been important to a self-proclaimed archaeologist. And the period between the pharaohs and Coptic Christians should have been at least 60 years.

Jim doesn't mention that the tour guide proclaimed him or her self an archaeologist. It could have been an archaeology tour guide mis-spelt or auto corrected. Jim may have assumed something incorrectly. Or maybe the tour company got it wrong.

As to the BC thing. Who knows when or even if this Christ person was born?And

If you are going in for Olympic standard pedantry you could at least try to get things right yourself.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jun 20 - 04:55 PM

aaaaaaagggghhhhh...!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Jun 20 - 04:22 PM

A short period of 30 years or so of Egyptian rulers, over two millennia ago, is of no interest to most well balanced normal folks in a general conversation about the here and now...

No, but it should have been important to a self-proclaimed archaeologist. And the period between the pharaohs and Coptic Christians should have been at least 60 years.

Of course, it could be deliberate lies. A quick Google of "Tour Guides" and "Lies" provides very fertile ground.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jun 20 - 02:49 PM

Nigel - are there treatments for rampant point scoring pedantry...???

It's worth googling...


A short period of 30 years or so of Egyptian rulers, over two millennia ago,
is of no interest to most well balanced normal folks in a general conversation
about the here and now...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Jun 20 - 02:36 PM

Egypt the archaeologist guide told us that so many of the faces of the statues hadn't been damaged by age or my weather but by the Coptic Christians who took over from the pharaohs because they didn't like the idea of 'false Gods' gazing down on them

Great that you had an 'archaeologist' as a guide.
A shame that he didn't seem to know that the last pharaoh (Cleopatra) died 30 years BC, so Coptic Christians could not have taken over from the pharaohs.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Jun 20 - 01:28 PM

I actually don't mind street art when it means something worthwhile - graffiti could be street art when nudged to express the artist rather than their fatuous heroes - I love Banksie
Some statuary have stories behind them -
There's one of a general on a horse behind the St George's Hall in Liverpool, whose creator committed suicide by diving head first off the top of it when he realised he'd put the spurs on it upside down
Destroying these things isn't a new thing - when we went around Egypt the archaeologist guide told us that so many of the faces of the statues hadn't been damaged by age or my weather but by the Coptic Christians who took over from the pharaohs because they didn't like the idea of 'false Gods' gazing down on them
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jun 20 - 10:49 AM

Jim - alright then, let's be more egalitarian..

..pissed up youths..



As usual I was being factious, but at the same time semi serious,
when I expressed a preference for statues celebrating pop culture personalities
over the establishment 'great and good'...

I'm actually in two minds about street monuments / street Art..

On one hand I think it's a good idea to make places more fun to be in,
on the other hand, a waste of public money,
when there are so many more pressing priorities...???


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Jun 20 - 10:39 AM

"where else would pissed-up students
put traffic cones"
Why not on their heads - I have jaundiced views about the self indulgent behaviour of students - probably sour grapes
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jun 20 - 10:35 AM

Jim - society needs statues..

..without them, where else would pissed-up students
put traffic cones on the way home from parties...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Jun 20 - 07:05 AM

At - last, the Government are getting their priories right
Headline in The Times this morning - "Johnson tells Britons" - Get out and shop" - for fuck's sake
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Jun 20 - 03:36 AM

I was somewhat horrified to find our tour guide several years ago eulogizing Mussolini as our coach drove through one of the Towns most associated with him at the southern tip of Lake Garda
A similar thing happened on a trip to Rome some years earlier with a massive monument still standing in all its glorification - as 'Eternal' as the city itself
HERE
Fasists in Spain are fighting to make Franco as powerful as he ever was, even after the HIDDEN ATROCITIES

Some of the bereaved families in Britain demanding an enquiry into how the pandemic is still being mishandled looks like they might turn themselves into an action group
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Jun 20 - 03:31 AM

On another topic: it's a good wheeze of Gove's not to have the checks on lorries coming into the UK for six moths or so after Jan 2021, is it not? Even though the EU will undoubtedly retain its checks to main the market integrity.

Let's think of lorries and flows. Kirchhoff's Laws and all that. The net flow of lorries across the Channel must be zero. If not, we either run out of lorries entirely, or they all end up in the UK.   By the same law, the rate of lorries leaving a queue must match or exceed the number joining it (over a suitable time interval), otherwise the queue becomes arbitrarily long.

This means having no checks on goods coming into the UK ultimately doesn't help: the dominant term will be the greater of the EU and UK handling time.    As a rough and ready approximation, there are no lorries available to bring goods into the UK, because they are all stuck trying to get out of the UK.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Monique
Date: 13 Jun 20 - 03:07 AM

Mussolini's head and for those who know Italian here they tell that the head was tied to a long rope and dragged across Bologna streets then left somewhere. Some say it was "rescued" and kept in a private museum but the fact is nobody knows where it is now. Maybe Dan Brown could write a book...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Jun 20 - 03:04 AM

"Me, I'd be happier with more statues celebrating 'great' figures of popular culture"
Why - their reward rest nestle very comfortably in their bank accounts ?
I found it symbolic when I discovered a self-built monument to one of those over-paid, under-talented people, Tommy Hicks (Steele) - sited in the front drive of his mansion in Teddinton guarded by electric gates and a ten foot spiked fence so those who made him wealthy couldn't get near it
Hopefully, when the world is made a fairer place, these monuments to the pampered and inequality will be carried down to the Thames or Mersey and placed where they belong
The old Soviet Union may have had all the growing pains of a people attempting to make the world a fairer place and those flws may have lost them their way, but THEY HAD THEIR PRIORITIES RIGHT WHEN IT CAME TO HONOUR
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: peteglasgow
Date: 13 Jun 20 - 02:06 AM

actually, i've just remembered a trip to (Red) Bologna last year. there is a big, broad plinth at the top of the tall, steep terrace. this used to have a large statue of mussolini on his horse. bologna fans told us that his statue had been pulled down and il duce's head had rolled down the terrace onto the pitch where it had been kicked around by supporters. sounds good to me - i'll check it on wiki


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: peteglasgow
Date: 13 Jun 20 - 01:57 AM

i hadn't thought about that 'rule over us' statue style, but a good general point about which are more troublesome for us modern day citizens. we could have a theme park for torelock tuggers who could wander about looking at horses' bollocks with a work sheet -'who is on the horse/plinth? ' 'who did he oppress? 'how many people died as a result of his efforts?.....'how many children did he have (tricky one)

then 'how many horses in the park'
'how many women in the park?'
'how many non-british in the park?'
'how many non ruling class in the park'?
how did they get their power.....are they still exploiting you? do they represent you in any way?......

needs some work....


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jun 20 - 07:56 PM

Last before one, brilliant post, pfr.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jun 20 - 07:49 PM

"White Doves vow to protect Winston's statue from BLM pigeon vandals and thugs.."


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jun 20 - 07:47 PM

The Eric Morcombe is grounded on the pavement like the rest of us hoi polloi..

the Billy Fury is up on a circular 'stage'..

The David Bowie - ground level - but looks rubbish..

The Marc Bolan bust on a memorial headstone.. could be anyone with long curly hair..

Hit or miss...

Me, I'd be happier with more statues celebrating 'great' figures of popular culture
who genuinely brought years of joy to us masses...

Don't matter how good or evil celebrated individuals were in life,
at the end of the day, all statues are pigeon toilets...

Daily Mail - "Treasonous militant Leftist pigeons desecrate our greatest hero Churchill.."


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 12 Jun 20 - 07:15 PM

That's "The Pickled Earl", isn't it? Didn't know his title, just that there was some Irish Ascendancy type who became Viceroy of India, was assassinated and, rather like Nelson, made his homeward voyage in a cask of rum.
While this is apart from the principal issues, there is one comparatively recent tendency in public statuary which can be seen as political in a more civic sense than usual, a tendency exemplified by such statues as that of Willie Clancy, pictured in the link posted by Jim Carroll on 10th June, or those of Kavanagh, Joyce and - in a related though not identical way - Molly Malone, just to keep with Irish Literature in these three. There are a number of works in Scotland, too, in which the tendency is also seen; Robert Ferguson in Edinburgh, Robert Burns at "The Birks of Aberfeldy", an anonymous South African woman again in Edinburgh.
The obvious feature of some of these, perhaps also of the Wordsworth statue mentioned above, that the artist is represented as engaged in a characteristic, everyday pursuit which the passer-by seems to discover, to intrude upon, isn't actually the "tendency" I mean. It's the fact that none of these works (I'm making an assumption that the Wordsworth one is something like a small, seated statue of another Irish writer, Padraig Colum), whatever the subject, wherever the location, none of these works has a pedestal. None of these figures is raised above us so that we literally look up to them for generations after their bones were interred. Many are the photographs, I'm sure, of people happily sitting beside the one, or striding down the Canongate with another, or, in one case, recording a happy moment of poetic lese majeste as someone leans over Burns's shoulder to suggest a better rhyme....
Not one has a pedestal. Not one of them looks down the nose at us. Not one, then, fits the long-established civic pattern, where "The Great and the Good" fix an admonitory and controlling gaze upon us, from their sightless sockets. And, as has become very quickly evident, not all of them are still universally admired - if they ever were. As an English writer of reason, and of good common sense, wrote some two centuries ago,
"A long habit of not thinking something wrong, is not sufficient to make it right".
Good Luck.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: peteglasgow
Date: 12 Jun 20 - 05:00 PM

in our town - away from the main street - there is a very small statue of wordsworth as a wee boy. and the house where he grew up is preserved as when he was boy. (i'll be walking by his house in a few minutes when i take my dog out) we also have a massive statue of 'Mayo' which dominates the town . he was an irish lord who was viceroy of india back in the empire days. he was also our mp. there is little evidence that he visited (i'm sure his days were spent in london , dublin or inda) or did anything for the town

anyway, i'm not keen on wordsworth's writing but have no objection to preserving his history with the town. yes, i would like to see Mayo removed but again i'm not really bothered as i sense the locals are quite fond of the statue, while we may know little about the man it represents.

if we need a statue at all in place we could have ben stokes - i reckon the freddie truman stutue in skipton is really good. i'm sure both these cricketers have their faults but at least they weren't responsible for the deaths and suffering of many thousands of Indian people.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 10 Jun 20 - 03:13 PM

Well, Voltaire was shown either an architectural drawing of his own proposed Mausoleum, or perhaps the "work in progress". He said that he couldn't wait to try it out.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jun 20 - 02:20 PM

There's a diabolically bad 'modern art' statue commemorating Frank Foley in Highbridge Somerset...

It was always good for a laugh on the way from the railway station to
Burnham on Sea Folk Fest...

This statue probably does not do for the town's pride
what the local fundraisers had intended...???

But it's certainly memorable...

https://www.jonathan-sells.com/project/frank-foley-sculpture/

The trouble with statues raised in your honour,
is you are usually too long dead
to say you think it's crap art...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Jun 20 - 01:59 PM

Not really that difficult Jim in a tiny town in the back end of nowhere that has a festival dedicated to the man who is probably a major source of income to the town.

Have a think back to Liverpool or London and do the same.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 10 Jun 20 - 01:37 PM

Heh! That could, happily perhaps, be taken to symbolise something about being able to muffle voices, for a while, but the music lives on...
I could put names to almost every statue in every major Scottish town, and know at least something about any historical personality thus represented and commemorated. However, I do recognise that this is indeed unusual now and proceeds from a personal interest rather than the kind of "Cultural Capital" which could formerly be expected of any educated person; what's worse is the widespread attitude of indifference now so often encountered. One time, some forty years back it would have to be, and during a break for a flask of tea and a wee roll-up, I was recounting to three fellow "casual" labourers something-or-other amusing, or surprising, about Scotland, or Europe maybe, in the eighteenth century. The oldest - in his thirties or forties and therefore older than I, and now, I think, wiser - said indulgently, with a look of amused pity, "Professor, what you dinnae realise is, naebody's interested in that sortay thing".
True that the current explosion of interest in certain statues has been both encouraged and, it seems, steered by media attention. Unfortunate that a likely consequence of attention being so concentrated on that issue is, once a few tons of bronze and marble have been tumbled in various locations, and some politically expedient legislation hurriedly enacted, institutions like certain banks, insurance companies, auction-houses and even churches will continue quietly to do business without much attention, if any, having being turned to the forensic investigation of their "links to Slavery and the Slave Trade". Relevant to the Stately Homes of England too, of course.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Jun 20 - 12:41 PM

"I wonder how many people could name all the statues in their own town "
TRY THIS FOR SIZE BLUE EYES
Jim


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