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Will folk clubs survive

Jim Carroll 18 Apr 20 - 01:11 PM
Steve Gardham 18 Apr 20 - 04:42 PM
The Sandman 18 Apr 20 - 05:37 PM
The Sandman 19 Apr 20 - 03:22 AM
Jim Carroll 19 Apr 20 - 03:48 AM
Steve Gardham 19 Apr 20 - 05:17 AM
Jim Carroll 19 Apr 20 - 05:42 AM
The Sandman 19 Apr 20 - 05:53 AM
Jim Carroll 19 Apr 20 - 08:40 AM
Jack Campin 19 Apr 20 - 09:47 AM
GUEST,lbig al whittle 19 Apr 20 - 01:59 PM
Steve Gardham 19 Apr 20 - 03:06 PM
Jim Carroll 20 Apr 20 - 02:19 AM
The Sandman 20 Apr 20 - 03:04 AM
The Sandman 23 Apr 20 - 02:38 AM
Jim Carroll 23 Apr 20 - 02:44 AM
Steve Gardham 23 Apr 20 - 06:06 AM
Jim Carroll 23 Apr 20 - 06:29 AM
Jack Campin 23 Apr 20 - 06:50 AM
SPB-Cooperator 26 Apr 20 - 05:37 AM
Jim Carroll 26 Apr 20 - 06:35 AM
The Sandman 28 Apr 20 - 04:18 AM
SPB-Cooperator 13 May 20 - 05:37 AM
The Sandman 13 May 20 - 05:01 PM
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Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 01:11 PM

" I presume it was the extra "n" that was dropped?"
I would have been obvious enough to be unworthy of comment
Wot -no :-) ?
Jim


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Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 04:42 PM

'Group singing is largely experimental.' I prefer the description 'enjoyable'.


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Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 05:37 PM

SEAN O SHEA it is not love that is blind, but jealousy.   

Lawrence Durrell


Sean.
I suggest go to spec savers and get your eyes tested or learn to count.


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Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Apr 20 - 03:22 AM

important factors are suitable venue, good promotion, good resident singers, if i have said this before it is because it needs to be said


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Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Apr 20 - 03:48 AM

"I prefer the description 'enjoyable'."
No accounting for taste - I prefer being able to concentrate on the words and listen to an interpretation other than musicalAre you seriously suggesting solo singing is not ?
My point was that our singing tradition - is word based, largely narrative
There's nothing wrong with doing what you wish with it - on the cotrarty - 'Butterworth's 'Banks of Green Willow' is one of the most exquisite pieces of music I never tire of - but i ain't folk and that isn't as that tragic ballad was intended to work

The good thing with now having a foundation for traditional music here is that, no matter how far afield you stray, you always have somewhere to return to to check you haven't forgotten something
That is what England seems to have lost (or thrown away)
Maybe folk should have been fitted with a sensor - like some keys are nowadays - you don't have to wander around shouting "where's my ***** keys" when you've got one of them
Jim


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Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 19 Apr 20 - 05:17 AM

'Are you seriously suggesting solo singing is not ?' Please read what I have written without putting any spin on it.

Strangely perhaps, some of us are still capable of listening to the narrative, appreciating the arrangement and enjoying the performance, all at the same time. Aren't we clever?

To put a finer point on it, if you are watching and listening to a live performance, it all depends whether the song is new to you, or you have heard it a thousand times and know the story backwards. If you are listening to a recording of your own you can play it back countless times to appreciate the narrative, arrangement, musicality etc.

Nothing thrown away, more and more available online, and being used more and more in live performance. Much more material, recordings, out there than ever there was, indeed far more than any individual could deal with in a long and healthy lifetime.


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Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Apr 20 - 05:42 AM

"Strangely perhaps, some of us are still capable of listening to the narrative, "
We are all capable strageley enoutgh - some of us prefer not to be distracted
Group singing tends largely to me musical rather than narrative - interpretation tends to go out of the window - inevitably; singers who interpret do so on their own behalf rather that for a couple of mates as well
Phrasing inevitably goes to pot - a note per syllable tends to be the order of the day - 'four-square singing' we used to call it
Go listen to The Watersons, come back and tell me that doesn't happen
I remember my reaction when 'Frost and Fire first appeared - I was bowled over.... for the first three tracks then it became boring-boring-boring
I never got around to side two or ages and then, because I felt I should

Live recordings are good to learn from but they can never be a subject for either the real thing or a chance to learn by talking to people at a club
I ton't want our songs to be a matter of staring at a small screen or becoming no more than a bum on a seat - there is not even a future in that, never mind it being proposed as a future in itself
Excuses seem to be a speciality of yours Steve
One of my favourite science fiction stories, by Ray Bradbury - describes people having to queue up to see 'The Last Tree'
If we're not careful, that's going to be the case with us
Now people have moved on from "Our clubs are all doin' fine" to "We don't need 'em" perhaps it's time for our next "Step for mankind" - perhaps Frankie Armstrong will have as much success as her namesake Neil ?
Jim


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Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Apr 20 - 05:53 AM

since every festival appears to be cancelled up uintil the end of august if we do manage to get out of lockdown before then, well folk clubs might temporarily do ok for a while ,bearing in mind that folk clubs are smaller gatherings of 20 to 25 people average, lots of ifs but we must wait and see.


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Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Apr 20 - 08:40 AM

Where ?
I can only see this posting unless you've reverted back to Karen
I always read what everybody says - it really doesn't help suggesting that people don't - - this has been pretty insult-free until now - let's try and keep it like that
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: Jack Campin
Date: 19 Apr 20 - 09:47 AM

'Group singing is largely experimental.' I prefer the description 'enjoyable'.

Doing it by Zoom is an experiment, though - the fact that most of the singing people in the UK have done in the last 500 years has been in groups doesn't help you synchronize with a leader over an Internet link. I know people are trying it, anybody here involved in that?


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Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: GUEST,lbig al whittle
Date: 19 Apr 20 - 01:59 PM

like I say, Wessex FC at THe Sailors Return in Weymouth are doing it this Wednesday. I expect if you go the club Facebook page there might be information.

Apparently the technology was a bit of a bugger last week, but they think they've got it sorted for this week.

I joined my ukulele class by Zoom last week. That was pretty good.


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Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 19 Apr 20 - 03:06 PM

Listened in to a Zoom singaround for 2 hours just now. Some singers were clear, others a bit iffy. Depends on the equipment I suppose. More of a social thing for me, but they all enjoyed it, and it was nice to see some familiar faces.

As regards the group singing and playing, we still have a single lead singer with the rest joining in on the chorus. Always thought that's what the choruses were there for. Watersons generally follow the same. Again, Jim, with your dislike of the Watersons you appear to be way out of step with the majority, but wasn't that ever the case?


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Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Apr 20 - 02:19 AM

"Again, Jim, with your dislike of the Watersons you appear to be way out of step with the majority, "
My like or dislike is immaterial, as is anybody else's, I analysed what they did with the song for you, ou have chosen not to comment, your failure to do so is not uncommon here
Or song traditions are based around the principles of storyelling; ou singers sang as they spoke, made sense of the narrative and made the story they were telling so they could be followed as such - that' why the singers visualised their songs as vividly as they did
Chorus singing is based on sound and musicality

If I worried about what others liked I'd go off to be sheared regularly or maybe voted to leave Europe - It would be as boring a world as I find 'Frost and Fire' if we all liked the same, wouldn't it ?
Why is what other like always so important to you Steve, do others have to think for you - that was what the 'Mrs Bucket' character was based on?
I put up my opinions in the hope of a debate - I find it more and more difficult to get one nowadays
Jim

I always understood that there was always a question around what choruses and refrains were for - there used to be anyway
Jim


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Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Apr 20 - 03:04 AM

well there are some chorus or joininng in songs that are story songs my son david or the two sisters orthe bnony banks of fordie


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Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Apr 20 - 02:38 AM

yes at least two will


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Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Apr 20 - 02:44 AM

Hopefully more than that if folk song is to have a future beyod the bookshelf and the archive vault Dick
I recently called for volunteers to sing Irish Child ballads for me and have been heartened to find how many relatively unknown young singers there are interested more in the songs than in being singers - - a 'first cuckoo' hopefully
Jim


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Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 23 Apr 20 - 06:06 AM

Excellent work, Jim! Let's hope you get some of them to sing them for you. Sounds like a project we English should be promoting. There are enough English Child Ballads out there. Come to think of it I ought to make a similar list of all those that have been collected in England.

Will give it a go after I've finished the spreadsheet on the earliest extant folksong versions. Please remind me if I forget.


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Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Apr 20 - 06:29 AM

" I ought to make a similar list of all those that have been collected in England."
It really wouldn't be a bad idea Steve
I have gained the impression that they survided later in Ireland - there are far more of them here than I believed there were
I'm now looking for singers for six Robin Hood Ballads and an impressive version of The Broom of Codenknowes (from Waterford)
The Two Magicians (similar to Bert's) and sever 'Broomfild Hills
You can't throw a stone without hitting Lamkin, The Demon Lover, Hind Horn or Lord Bateman
A bit mind boggling really

If you do or anyone does, look in collections like 'Helen Hartness Flanders, Edith Fowke and Creighton - some excellent English and Irish survivals in all of these

I've just had a lovely young lady from Cork sing a full version of 'Famous Flower of Serving Men' (from Clare - circa 1920) for me
All very interesting !!!!!
Jim


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Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 Apr 20 - 06:50 AM

A lot of remote instrumental teaching going on right now - every instrument and genre imaginable. But nobody seems to be teaching anything vocal. Have I just not noticed?

You'd think something like the Glasgow Ballad Workshop would Zoom-ify quite well.


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Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 26 Apr 20 - 05:37 AM

Remote bodhran conferencing? THe apocalypse has surely arrived.


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Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Apr 20 - 06:35 AM

"Remote bodhran conferencing? "
The remoter the better
Jim


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Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Apr 20 - 04:18 AM

Distant Drums


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Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 13 May 20 - 05:37 AM

On 'another' tangent - as we will need to wait at least until July before we return to any sense of normality, will virtual folk sessions continue in parallel to live venues, or should they? One thing in favour of virtual sessions is they can have a much wider geographic reach.


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Subject: RE: Will folk clubs survive
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 May 20 - 05:01 PM

NO, Virtual sessions are virtual they are not real, they do not include socialising, they are also arranged, and thats bollocks about reaching a wider geographical area,people arrive at our local session if they are on holiday, and anyway the session can be recorded and put on the internet, so that it is accesible to people in timbuctoo or madagascar


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