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BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19

punkfolkrocker 14 Nov 20 - 09:31 AM
Stilly River Sage 14 Nov 20 - 09:15 AM
robomatic 13 Nov 20 - 06:03 PM
Mrrzy 13 Nov 20 - 05:35 PM
punkfolkrocker 13 Nov 20 - 08:14 AM
Donuel 13 Nov 20 - 07:54 AM
Mrrzy 11 Nov 20 - 09:50 AM
Donuel 11 Nov 20 - 08:21 AM
Jack Campin 11 Nov 20 - 07:54 AM
Donuel 10 Nov 20 - 09:25 AM
punkfolkrocker 10 Nov 20 - 08:38 AM
Mrrzy 10 Nov 20 - 08:18 AM
Nigel Parsons 10 Nov 20 - 08:16 AM
Donuel 10 Nov 20 - 07:53 AM
Donuel 10 Nov 20 - 07:48 AM
Nigel Parsons 10 Nov 20 - 06:43 AM
punkfolkrocker 09 Nov 20 - 08:39 PM
Steve Shaw 09 Nov 20 - 06:11 PM
Senoufou 09 Nov 20 - 04:33 PM
Mrrzy 09 Nov 20 - 04:13 PM
punkfolkrocker 09 Nov 20 - 02:34 PM
Senoufou 09 Nov 20 - 01:39 PM
leeneia 09 Nov 20 - 11:52 AM
Donuel 08 Nov 20 - 10:47 AM
Stilly River Sage 08 Nov 20 - 09:57 AM
Mrrzy 08 Nov 20 - 09:42 AM
punkfolkrocker 07 Nov 20 - 01:21 AM
Stilly River Sage 06 Nov 20 - 11:48 PM
punkfolkrocker 06 Nov 20 - 09:34 PM
Steve Shaw 06 Nov 20 - 08:22 PM
Stilly River Sage 06 Nov 20 - 07:11 PM
punkfolkrocker 06 Nov 20 - 05:07 PM
Backwoodsman 06 Nov 20 - 04:52 PM
punkfolkrocker 06 Nov 20 - 04:07 PM
Bonzo3legs 06 Nov 20 - 02:47 PM
The Sandman 06 Nov 20 - 02:21 PM
Raggytash 06 Nov 20 - 02:18 PM
Bonzo3legs 06 Nov 20 - 12:40 PM
Backwoodsman 06 Nov 20 - 12:28 PM
Bonzo3legs 06 Nov 20 - 11:42 AM
Vincent Jones 06 Nov 20 - 07:26 AM
DMcG 06 Nov 20 - 07:25 AM
Bonzo3legs 06 Nov 20 - 07:07 AM
Raggytash 06 Nov 20 - 06:23 AM
Steve Shaw 06 Nov 20 - 06:18 AM
Raggytash 06 Nov 20 - 05:48 AM
Steve Shaw 06 Nov 20 - 05:42 AM
Bonzo3legs 06 Nov 20 - 05:22 AM
Doug Chadwick 06 Nov 20 - 05:08 AM
Steve Shaw 05 Nov 20 - 06:40 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Nov 20 - 09:31 AM

Your president seems intent on taking as many followers as he can
with him when he's finally driven out..

His anti-mask covid denying faithful are like one of those suicidal death cults
who drink fatal poison at their holy leaders bidding...


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Nov 20 - 09:15 AM

The ones that go in the deep freeze are faster to make but they don't have a step and expense of adding preservatives to them. The cold is the only way to preserve them. This was explained recently on an NPR news program.

HEALTH AND SCIENCE
California, Oregon and Washington issue Covid travel advisory urging 14-day quarantine


This is a joint program between the three states to try to lessen the infections between them.

    The governors of California, Oregon and Washington issued a joint coronavirus travel advisory on Friday urging people arriving to their states to self-quarantine for 14 days and asking residents to avoid all non-essential out-of-state trips.

    The Pacific Northwest states said essential travel includes people who are traveling for “work and study, critical infrastructure support, economic services and supply chains, health, immediate medical care and safety and security,” according to a statement.

    The Democratic governors also recommended that travelers limit their interactions with only people in their households.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: robomatic
Date: 13 Nov 20 - 06:03 PM

serious question: what makes one vaccine need to be stored at extreme cold temps but not another?


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Nov 20 - 05:35 PM

Over 100 secret service members now have it thanks to Trump's campaigns.

But here is some new science on why some people get so sick while others don't.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Nov 20 - 08:14 AM

Still waiting for news reports of prominent covid denier anti-masker
fatalities from the virus..

Or are they actually the strongest fearless Übermensch
they boast to be...???


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Nov 20 - 07:54 AM

"In the US the covid death equivalent is 4 jumbo jets crashing every day killing everyone on board."

That was early in the week. Now the equivalent ia 6 jumbp jets crashing every single day.
The behavior of the impatient, the teenager, the maskless, the school kids and others are our weakest links to slowing the spread.
By January the death rate is on track to be 2,200 every day.
Since there are no ICU beds available in many states already, the covid dead outside of hospitals will probably not be counted.

I expect a vaccine to work as well as perfect behavior by our weakest links in slowing the infection rate.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Nov 20 - 09:50 AM

Ok new news again: which do you think is riskiest/riskier/less risky:

1) take a bus with open windows for an hour [I thought this Riskier]
2) sit and eat in an enclosed space at a table for 10, indoors, no windows, 15-30 mn [I thought this Riskiest]
3) participate in a buddhist retreat for a full day, outdoors, with hundreds of others? [I had thought this least risky]

Well there are data! From mid-January in China where the same group from Wuhan did all those things. Video here but in French. But great graphics, worth looking at.

Turned out the worst, and by far, was the bus. One person on one bus infected almost everybody else on that bus, except most of those sitting right at the open windows.

Being at a table, even indoors and unventilated for 15-30 mn, infected few if any, same for being outdoors with people.

Excellent within-group research.

Also, no masks. One mask on that one person could have prevented *all* the infections.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Nov 20 - 08:21 AM

In the US the covid death equivalent is 4 jumbo jets crashing per day killing everyone on board. People prefer to ignore the problem when permitted to do so by leaders. The mobile morgue refridgerated semi truck trailers can only hold 144 corpses each. One day grocery stores will use these same trailers for food.

We are at an all time high exponential infection rate. In some areas 1 in 30 are infected. Other areas vary to 1 in 100. The near vertical rise in infection will continue even if we slam on the brakes as firmly as possible but it will slow only slightly like the largest heaviest ship in the world at full speed.

Looking ahead there is hell to come for at least a year. But it will get better. Some will throw caution to the wind by impatience or accident. You can only improve your odds of staying infection free by 70%, thats only a C- .


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jack Campin
Date: 11 Nov 20 - 07:54 AM

Awopbopalopbopabimbamboom


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 09:25 AM

Pfizer got NO money from the US government and is not connected to Trump in any way, I see what Natt Hancock is saying by couching his optiimismism in words like "it is one step among many".
My key word is "average".
It will be another month before Pfizer has more info beyond a simple press release of some data.
If and when a vaccine is cleared to go, the Government will then be involved in manufacture and distribution. (operation Warp Speed)


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 08:38 AM

So, are the tories going to cancel pre-orders for vaccines that prove to be less effective;
or are they committed to still buy them,
wasting even more public money than the PPE debacle...???

..and if they do go ahead buying and using those more useless vaccines,
who'll be the poor buggers who get those crap jabs...???


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 08:18 AM

In other new news about the virus, about 1 in 5 folks who recover are then diagnosed with mental illnesses they didn't have before. Possible other brain damage, like not getting your sense of taste back.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 08:16 AM

The first average people to have the new vaccine are looking at next summer. (3 seasons away)

Maybe, maybe not: Coronavirus: Matt Hancock asks NHS to be ready to deploy COVID-19 vaccine from start of December


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 07:53 AM

The first average people to have the new vaccine are looking at next summer. (3 seasons away)


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 07:48 AM

You have to take it in TWO shots. This kind of rna scrambling vaccine production has never been used on a population before.

The unknowns: are the effectiveness in people prone to severe infections vs. those that would have mild symptoms. Flu vaccines tend to not help severe flu victims.

We don't know about lifetime immunity but are treating it like the temporary flu shot.

Naturally we don't know of long term complications but odds are its way better to take it.

I had a reaction to a flu shot of muscle paralysis but the symptoms were brief - only 5 minutes. (petite barr syndome)


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 06:43 AM

From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 02:34

Claims of 90% protection still leave one in 10 of the population vulnerable..


90% protection is good. Better than most estimates for the Flu vaccines made available each year.
Also, if you vaccinate 90% of the population with a 90% effective vaccine you get 81% resistant. This is higher than the calculated number needed for 'herd immunity'.

If someone is offering a tested vaccine against Covid I'd take it 'like a shot!'


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 08:39 PM

Hater..???

..I'm looking for health angles to jump to the head of the queue,
while the tories are continue forcing my mrs to work at school
throughout the pandemic...


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 06:11 PM

43000 people have had the vaccine/placebo. There have been no safety concerns. Stop whingeing, vaccine-haters: let's roll it out now and save lives. Actually, vaccine-haters, do carry on. Your refusal puts me higher up the queue. I can suck that up.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 04:33 PM

Vaccines can have dire reactions. I'll never forget my first yellow fever one, many years ago. The night after I was given it, I woke up at about 2am on my back on the kitchen floor with five cats staring at me. Angels and weird creatures were flying overhead and I lay in a puddle of sweat. I think it may have been a 'mild' version of the disease itself. Luckily, the rules for yellow fever vaccination now say that one jab lasts for life (if it doesn't kill you first!).
I don't want Covid obviously, but I'm shielding anyway, and there aren't many cases in our area. Husband says he'll have the vaccine 'like a shot' (pun intended) because he works in a high school.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 04:13 PM

Imma wait at least 5 years before trusting any vaccine.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 02:34 PM

Claims of 90% protection still leave one in 10 of the population vulnerable..

.. and apparently it's pot luck who get's which pre-ordered vaccine.

Then there's virus mutations to consider..!!!???

[But hopefully, a future ban on mink farms...???]

Even as a lefty, I've always had serious respect for preppers...


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 01:39 PM

There's talk now of a vaccine possibly becoming available in a few weeks. And there's much discussion on whether people would be prepared to have it or not.
I personally wouldn't, unless it's been thoroughly tested and not just bunged out hastily. Sticking a needle into ones arm and injecting something into ones body which may/may not be dodgy doesn't appeal to me all that much.
Anyone else got any thoughts on this?


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: leeneia
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 11:52 AM

Mrzzy wants some news. Here's some.

Science Focus reports that hospitals are getting better at treating patients who are seriously ill. In ICU's the death rate used to be 25%, now it's 7%.

In some patients, Covid infection leads the immune system to go berserk (my term), attacking the body. This may explain deaths in young, fit people, males more than females. This problem may have a genetic basis.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 10:47 AM

A question: Is there a new strain of virus that is more infectious or have people become too cavalier? Or isn't the second wave of a pandemic always more dramatic?


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 09:57 AM

The closure of many businesses as England shuts down for a month was news, but yes, there does appear to be grousing included with that story.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 09:42 AM

Weird conjunction of threads. This was supposed to be for new findings about covid, but hey. Now it is just a bitch about covid thread.

So if there is actual new news about covid, it still goes here, but you'll have to wade through a bunch of other stuff to find it.

But hey, life is good right now, from where I sit on this side of the pond. Go, Pennsylvania.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 01:21 AM

Neo fascists have deep entrenched fanatical hatred for teachers,
who they consider to be the most evil marxist feminist satanist enemy.

The far right want them all replaced with loyal nationalists,
preferably ex military or football hooligans
with some basic literacy and counting skills
acquired from the common sense university of life...

But definitely none of that dangerous traitorous book-learning intellectualism nonsense..

Loyalist local citizens would immediately target my wife
with coughing infants,
the instant suspicions are planted on social media
of her indoctrinating and recruiting innocent British 5 year olds
for socialist antifa terror squads..

'Play' digging in the school sand pit is obvious training for planting IEDs..

Spying on school children through binoculars is perfectly
excusable if monitoring for suspected marxist training activities..

So in this climate of ideological panic,
Covid is a godsend for exterminating teachers and University lecturers
without the awkward publicity and expense of concentration camps..

. and getting her to spread it at home to me,
would be a free extra points bonus kill for the far right.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 11:48 PM

It does seem odd that schools would stay open. Even here schools are intermittently occupied, mostly students do remote learning from home.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 09:34 PM

What do I think...???

"Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker - PM
Date: 01 Nov 20 - 02:21 PM

I am still inclined to suspect extremist ideological factions of the tories
are determined to exploit covid as an opportunist covert lethal weapon,
targeting the teaching profession...
"


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 08:22 PM

Well thanks for burying my thread, whoever you are, and then polluting it with Trumpism. I suppose I'll have to put up with it, won't I.

Here's a nice piece of supposed lockdown for you. I have a friend who is in what was a Tier 3 area, one of the most infected areas of the country. Their next-door neighbours both have coronavirus. They work in a small school in which nine children are from six families with current coronavirus infections. The school remains cheerfully open. Well what do you think. I know what I think. I think that this lockdown is a bloody waste of time, and a lot worse than just that.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 07:11 PM

At this point Trump has so enraged his base against anything to do with sound science or careful personal behavior that such an order would be almost impossible to enforce. But the medical people being interviewed now are using the term "exponential" when describing the rapid spread of COVID-19 in the US population. We could use a good shutdown; stop complaining and see if it works. And maybe saves your lives.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 05:07 PM

BWM - .. well.. he is just frantically tossing off messy policies
all over us and himself...


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 04:52 PM

”...a twinkle in Boris’s ballsack...”

{{Shudder}} :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 04:07 PM

I like lockdown..

But then, I was a happily reclusive hermit
long before lockdown
was a twinkle in boris's ballsack...


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 02:47 PM

No thankyou!!! Just watched Blair Dunlop's brilliant webcast with his band - only £8 to watch.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 02:21 PM

bonzo if you want to be depressed listen to little pimp the mumble rapper


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 02:18 PM

Fancy doing any painting at my place Bonzo. I've just had a room replastered and it's going to take at least three coats and to be done before Thursday when the carpet fitters are coming!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 12:40 PM

Exactly, for me there aren't enough hours in the day!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 12:28 PM

If anything, my mental health improved and my stress-levels lowered during the first lockdown. Mrs Backwoodsperson commented on a number of occasions how much more relaxed I’d become and how my mood seemed to have lightened generally.

But then, I spent my time keeping busy with things I enjoy doing, rather than moping about feeling sorry for myself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 11:42 AM

Apparently, during lockdown one is supposed to develop mental health problems and become depressed. I am not sure how to achieve that. All ideas welcome.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: Vincent Jones
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 07:26 AM

Yes, lockdown is a bugger. Yes, a more regional approach would be a better approach. Yes, schools and colleges remaining open is a ridiculous exception. Yes, years of Tory government, not to mention New Labour, have done much to knacker the NHS. And yes, the consequences of lockdown other than covid has caused an increase in child abuse, violence against women and suicide.

I'm optimistic enough to think that most people try to do the right thing, and will take note of advice. To keep the R number down, however, requires nearly everyone to do the right thing, but there are enough idiots, conspiracy theorists and others behaving like the bloke in Bonzo's pharmacy to keep R well above 1. I haven't the optimism to think that a government that can't find its arse with both hands could produce a national education programme to nudge such people into responsible behaviour.

Death by covid is lonely, painful, distressing and violent. This lockdown will prevent some of these deaths.

Had the NHS the capacity, and had the government been responsible in the way it built up resources to deal with the pandemic, rather than handing lucrative contracts to their mates, then perhaps the lockdown would not be necessary.

By all means moan about what a bastard it all is, though.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 07:25 AM

My guess is that people whose areas have had very low number of cases, like Cornwall, are likely to resent the lockdown and will be quite prone to people ignoring the rules.

My anecdotal experience is different.

Because my wife has had a knee replacement 8 weeks ago, we have tried to go out most days for walks to give it exercise. This has tended to be the nearby shore, or National Trust properties, or various gardens, bird sanctuaries and similar. We have found that where we go, people are very good at wearing masks, everyone steps off the paths and walks next to it to get metres of separation, tables are many metres apart and so on. It is very similar in the local shops: people are making an effort to keep apart, to walk the aisle according to one way systems, not to pass each other, to distance at tills and so on.

We did go in for lunch in one pub before the operation where they were only paying lip service to the rules: they had a one way system but no one followed it, the wait staff had no masks, and so on. But that has really been it.

We were a tier 1 before the new lockdown, so we were not especially at risk.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 07:07 AM

I would say to a very high degree. I have just returned from our pharmacy where a man was darting about looking at goods on the shelves and not wearing a mask. As he left I shouted out "he must have a no need to wear a mask ticket, everyone else waiting for medication - all wearing masks, agreed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 06:23 AM

If it retards the spread of the virus it will in turn reduce the number of people who contract it. This in turn will reduce the number of people who will die.

Much as I criticise the government, the actions of the population must be taken into account and to a degree they are also responsible for the high mortality rate.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 06:18 AM

The lockdown isn't going to prevent deaths. It's designed to spread them out so that the NHS (near-wrecked by ten years of Toryism) won't be overwhelmed. And don't forget the side effects of lockdowns. The BBC reports that there has bee been a 20% rise in the numbers of babies harmed, even killed, since March. Who knows how many suicides, mental health breakdowns and incidents of domestic violence could be attributed to job losses, isolation and financial struggles. Until last week I hadn't been in a pub, cafe or restaurant since March. On Tuesday last week we went for lunch at a farm shop cafe near us. I was flabbergasted by the total lack of regard for social distancing. The tables were so close together that you could be sitting back to back less than two feet away from someone at the next table, and all the tables were full. Customers were supposed to wear masks unless seated, a rule ignored by almost everyone. It'll be a long time before the hospitality industry gets my custom again. In my view this latest lockdown is a waste of time and a very damaging one at that. But Mrs Steve and I, despite our opposition, are sticklers for the rules.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 05:48 AM

Much as I do not like the lockdown, the alternative is a continuation of high mortality.

I have witnessed numerous acts of sheer stupidity including some from my mates who I had thought were intelligent people.

For instance in my local bar where the owners had tried very hard to follow the guidelines one person from my table went to speak to people at another table. He did wear a mask but he wore MINE. When he returned to our table he could not understand why I was a bit miffed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 05:42 AM

I assume that you are not shuddering because I missed the hyphen out of get-go. I quite like get-go and I shall be using it a lot going forward.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 05:22 AM

But this is just what labour were demanding is it not! For those retired and not working - they can carry on sloathing at home and whinge, and for those retired and still working as normal - albeit from home like myself, we contribute!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 05:08 AM

.... from the getgo ....

{{{{shudder}}}}


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Subject: BS: Bloody UK lockdown Mk 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 06:40 PM

This is not intended to be a Brit politics thread, more a cri de coeur. We've been locked down again, for four weeks this time, nationwide. People round here can't believe it. We have the lowest infection rate in the country but we can't meet our families and friends. The supermarkets can sell whatever they like but almost all other shops are forced to close, restaurants and leisure facilities have all shut down and the police are threatening to interrogate us as to what we're doing if they see us out and about. Yet schools and universities can carry on as normal, in spite of the fact that infection rates are ballooning in secondary schools and that university students have descended from all corners of the country/globe and spiked infection rates in many university towns. I went into town today and it felt nothing like the first lockdown. Plenty of traffic, supermarkets crowded, streets full of people, and fireworks parties all round this evening. I'm thinking that huge numbers of people are ignoring this latest lockdown and I don't blame them. The approach I strongly feel that should have been adopted from the getgo was one in which the government made a massive effort to educate the public and get everyone onside by persuasion, not edict. I mean, how have we reached a position whereby a supposed democratic government can tell people that they can't leave their house and can't mix with their own close families?


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