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BS: New news on the pandemic

Steve Shaw 31 Mar 20 - 04:01 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 31 Mar 20 - 01:53 PM
Backwoodsman 31 Mar 20 - 11:44 AM
Stilly River Sage 31 Mar 20 - 11:16 AM
mg 31 Mar 20 - 11:01 AM
Mrrzy 31 Mar 20 - 09:28 AM
Senoufou 31 Mar 20 - 04:24 AM
Mr Red 31 Mar 20 - 04:15 AM
Jim Carroll 31 Mar 20 - 04:07 AM
Mr Red 31 Mar 20 - 03:52 AM
mg 31 Mar 20 - 02:36 AM
mg 31 Mar 20 - 12:11 AM
mg 30 Mar 20 - 09:16 PM
Donuel 30 Mar 20 - 07:17 PM
Senoufou 30 Mar 20 - 05:25 PM
Backwoodsman 30 Mar 20 - 05:21 PM
Backwoodsman 30 Mar 20 - 05:15 PM
leeneia 30 Mar 20 - 04:36 PM
Donuel 30 Mar 20 - 02:50 PM
Steve Shaw 30 Mar 20 - 02:22 PM
Mrrzy 30 Mar 20 - 02:10 PM
Mr Red 30 Mar 20 - 12:27 PM
Rain Dog 30 Mar 20 - 09:33 AM
Donuel 30 Mar 20 - 07:58 AM
SPB-Cooperator 30 Mar 20 - 07:03 AM
SPB-Cooperator 30 Mar 20 - 06:59 AM
Mr Red 30 Mar 20 - 03:23 AM
Mrrzy 30 Mar 20 - 12:04 AM
Steve Shaw 29 Mar 20 - 06:44 PM
mg 29 Mar 20 - 06:32 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 29 Mar 20 - 05:16 PM
Mrrzy 29 Mar 20 - 12:05 PM
Steve Shaw 29 Mar 20 - 09:19 AM
G-Force 29 Mar 20 - 09:17 AM
Mrrzy 29 Mar 20 - 09:12 AM
Senoufou 29 Mar 20 - 07:14 AM
Steve Shaw 29 Mar 20 - 06:31 AM
Dave the Gnome 29 Mar 20 - 03:20 AM
leeneia 28 Mar 20 - 09:46 PM
Mrrzy 27 Mar 20 - 08:11 PM
Mrrzy 27 Mar 20 - 08:10 PM
Donuel 27 Mar 20 - 07:28 PM
robomatic 27 Mar 20 - 07:22 PM
Steve Shaw 27 Mar 20 - 01:04 PM
Mrrzy 27 Mar 20 - 11:13 AM
Mr Red 27 Mar 20 - 10:50 AM
DMcG 27 Mar 20 - 08:45 AM
Dave the Gnome 27 Mar 20 - 08:35 AM
Nigel Parsons 27 Mar 20 - 08:35 AM
Mrrzy 27 Mar 20 - 08:28 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 04:01 PM

Well I'm outraged that my local garden centre is closed whereas Bude Morrisons and B&M, both of which have more or less separate mini-garden centres, can carry on regardless. That just isn't right. I'm with Titchmarsh on this. Unless the policy changes I'm boycotting all supermarket gardening departments.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 01:53 PM

Re (NOT) funding charities in trouble from covid19, in a good nation in a good United Nations there would be no need for private (competing) charities where, if a celebrity gets involved e.g., some get more than they need & others not enough.

And re news of garden centres in trouble - good, if they are selling exotics rather than the native flora that our native fauna EVOLVED WITH; some photos of Levenshulme Allotments, with native gardening advice here


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 11:44 AM

”Well I'm no medical expert, but the experts I see/read tell me that the high temps are the bodies evolved response to slow down the virus because it struggles at higher temperatures.
Indeed the time honoured advice of lemon, honey & an aspirin is forwned on, because acetylsalicylic acid is vaso-dilatory** which cools you down, thus lengthening recovery.
Yer pays yer money and takes yer choice.“


Well, I was speaking from personal experience, as a patient with high fever and severe rigors on a significant number of occasions over the past fifteen years due to life-threatening infections, of the treatment that was given to me. I was shivering uncontrollably and very painfully to the point of exhaustion, but the things I desperately wanted - heat, warmer bedding, etc., were refused by the medical staff at QMC Nottingham and, instead, thin bedding and a fan were used to reduce my fevers on each occasion. Whilst it’s true that a high temperature is part of the body’s defence against bacterial or viral infections, very high temperatures - >40C - are, in themselves, life-threatening and need to be reduced.

But don’t just take my word for it - scroll down to the last section of the article.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 11:16 AM

Alabama also. I joined the ACLU as soon as Trump was sworn in, and have kept that membership going.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 11:01 AM

Nurses are not afraid of giving the virus to their dying patients. They are afraid of getting it. And I was wondering if dogs could be used to sniff out fever and this illness. They are being tried out in several countries I believe.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 09:28 AM

Merde, Senoufou.

I think Virginia has canceled my annual tripping naked hippie springtime Float Trip (it is Memorial Day weekend and stay-home is till June 10). Merde all over again.

Face masks keep you from *giving* but not from getting germs. Worth it.

Texas has ruled the abortion ban to be unconstitutional and unenforceable so that is something.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 04:24 AM

I see that there are now 165 cases in Ivory Coast, mostly in Abidjan. Husband is frantic with worry for his numerous family. No 'lockdown' as such, just a curfew and mosques/schools closed. But people are out on the streets, going to markets etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 04:15 AM

toilet rolls reward for finding missing cockatiel

Living in interesting times!


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 04:07 AM

In case anybody doesn't look into the UK politics thread I've taken the liberty of repeating DtheG's link HERE
Everybody should be fully aware what is happening
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 03:52 AM

the treatment, perhaps counter-intuitively

Well I'm no medical expert, but the experts I see/read tell me that the high temps are the bodies evolved response to slow down the virus because it struggles at higher temperatures.
Indeed the time honoured advice of lemon, honey & an aspirin is forwned on, because acetylsalicylic acid is vaso-dilatory** which cools you down, thus lengthening recovery.
Yer pays yer money and takes yer choice.

** so is whisky (or whiskey) - but then who cares?.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 02:36 AM

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/top-chinese-health-official-warns-114801914.html

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/top-chinese-health-official-warns-114801914.html

we will have allowed so many people to die over this foolishness. we surely should have figured out we were being lied to. if the reason was to protect a scarce supply, they should have removed the costco masks from the supply going to medics etc. and they should have told the truth...if they work for the nurses, they will work for people in general, but it is more important to protect the nurses. of course it is. they could then say, make your own. make extra. you must wear them in shops and on the bus. bus drivers are now dying. being a smartass here or elsewhere about this is cruel and unnecessary,


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 12:11 AM

Davide Capodanno
@DFCapodanno
The rapid pace of knowledge on #COVID19 leads to revisit your beliefs every 5 minutes. Surgical masks are the most typical example: we went from mocking the few who had them up to the current belief that we should all wear masks for months when things go back to pseudo-normality.

from twitter. was lots on twitter yesterday and more coming right now. find epidemiologists on twitter and follow them if you have anything you think is profound to say. (he is not an epidemiologist but an Italian cardiologist).

please do due diligence and research this. there is no downside i can think of from clean, homemade masks. there is group protection. don't just wear them..pass the word. ask people why they are not wearing something.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 09:16 PM

please everyone..make your own masks and don't be afraid to be the first to wear them. i will try to post some good epidemiological links later. i get most of my information from following epidemiologists and virologists on twitter and there don't tend to be links. start following epidemiologists. this is what i came across..google for yourselves...Israel on the verge of making masks mandatory. germany about to make mandatory in supermarkets. Czechoslovakia already mandatory. several asian countries mandatory but i don't know which ones. it has been idiotic to read these comments that they don't work. if they work by 4% that is good. Of course, wash them daily and hang in sun if possible. Don't count on your bus neighbor washing her hands. People don't. It is not to save yourself...it is to collectively save others.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 07:17 PM

When it feels like a 250 lb person is sitting on your chest is when a ventilator can lessen the stress.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 05:25 PM

My sister is still very ill with the virus, and she describes being raging hot, and an inability to breathe as if one is suffocating with a very heavy weight one the chest. Incessant coughing and great weakness.
Add to this, she lives all alone in a Scottish village in Tayside.
I expect all sufferers have differing symptoms, depending on their state of health before they succumbed.
Bless her, she's still talking about volunteering once she's better, as presumably she'll have immunity. But is it certain that one can't get it twice?


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 05:21 PM

”But now I ask myself, how about an electric blanket, hot drinks, hot water bottle, chicken soup, hot shower? Was there not one person on the earth who would lend a helping hand? We're not talking about a destitute or derelict person here.”

Those were the last things he needed - he was shivering and felt cold because he had a fever, a.k.a. a high temperature. The shivering caused by a fever is called ‘Rigors’ and the treatment, perhaps counter-intuitively, is to cool the patient - often by using a fan to cool them down.

Electric blankets, hot drinks, hot water bottles, would increase the fever and result in him feeling even colder.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 05:15 PM

100


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: leeneia
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 04:36 PM

Yesterday a columnist wrote a vivid and worrying description of what it can be like to have a moderate case of Covid 19. He wrote of lying in bed for a long time, shivering and terribly cold. He even dreamed of riding in a frozen landscape.

But now I ask myself, how about an electric blanket, hot drinks, hot water bottle, chicken soup, hot shower? Was there not one person on the earth who would lend a helping hand? We're not talking about a destitute or derelict person here.

Nonetheless, what he wrote certainly firmed my resolve not to get this virus.
================
I'm often cold at night, esp. my feet and legs. I ordered a big heating pad from Dr. Leonard's catalog, which concentrates on heating those very same feet and legs. Its control goes from 1 to 10, and I only have to put it on 1 or 2. Yet I am sleeping much better than I have in a long time.
==========
A couple of months ago, I asked for a hot water bottle at my local Walgreen's, and they didn't know what I was talking about. They had them.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 02:50 PM

An historian pointed out the fact that cities that carried out parades suffered the most. Today that was New Orleans.

The rest of the country is fueled with new infections by, of all things, Basketball pick up games. TOO BAD there are no public service announcements that the young would listen to. Even if they do, there is an element of defiance or possibly pay back.

The mitigation bucket has lots of holes in it with beaches, stores, homeless, prisons, first responders - (the list is long) , hospitals and elder care facilites.

But its the only bucket we have.

Red, fear is a fine mitigating factor.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 02:22 PM

Steve Shaw posted a copy of the email he sent to Lidl "I simply couldn't understand the wild-west approach to the crisis that seems to be prevailing at this store."

It's not so wild in Bude! Very civilised. I received what looks like a very standardised reply today saying that they're getting on with it, sort of thing. Getting on with what everybody else was doing a week or more ago...

I'm not proud and I use Lidl, Aldi and Poundland as well as Waitrose... the Fire Tree Nero d'Avola at £4.49 at Aldi is the best value red I've found in years.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 02:10 PM

Virginia is now under stay-at-home orders.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 12:27 PM

The secret to peer into the future is to scrutinize the past.

Usually. But it relies on people looking for the similarities. As I find when drawing analogies in discussions like in this parish. Similarities are ignored or denigrated by comments that show the differences and by implication the analogy is dismissed.

History is an analogy for the future. It is different now, we know more (aka more intelligent?????) now.

If we are more intelligent - we will see the similarities as warnings and differences as boundaries/borders to the similarities.

FWIW History can show there danger of a second wave of epidemic, as we relax. I fear, not predict.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Rain Dog
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 09:33 AM

Steve Shaw posted a copy of the email he sent to Lidl "I simply couldn't understand the wild-west approach to the crisis that seems to be prevailing at this store."

I thought that you did live in the wild-west. Here in the calm south east we do have a Lidl at an out of town location. Not been to it myself as I don't have a car plus it would mean travelling up north.

Stay safe everyone.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 07:58 AM

The secret to peer into the future is to scrutinize the past.

In 1919-1920 people grew weary and stopped the very same social distancing measures we use today. As a result when the second wave arrived it was more catastrophic than it needed to be. And again with the 3rd wave.

Their past is our future.

Our own behavior will exaccerbate the outome but does not cause the 2nd and 3rd wave.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 07:03 AM

I wish the media would be a bit more discerning when reporting individual health announcements and wait for peer validated announcements. We are getting so many mixed messages.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 06:59 AM

Steve, I guess that masks are less effective if we are in close proximity to someone without one and do not help with surface to hand transmission so if someone takes of their masks before washing their hands it does kind of negate any benefit.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 03:23 AM

Again, Iains, you quote all those numbers without saying how common they are in the general population

There are a few things going on there.
1) how likely are you to contract COVID-19? - social distancing apart (pun intended) - it is no respecter of status, be careful!
2) If you can't be careful, be lucky
3) If you can't be careful, have a healthy/lucky lifestyle.
4) If you can't be careful, be young (I am working on that one)
5) Some of the people we rely on like doctors and nurses (+ police, firemen etc) may be vulnerable yet answer the call. And pay the price. It has happened.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 12:04 AM

Shit. John Prine.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 06:44 PM

Most masks don't work, except as a money-spinner for spivs. A false sense of security isn't exactly what we currently need.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 06:32 PM

we all need to wear masks or some face covering. make our own so we are not accused of robbing them from nurses. it should be mandatory. it would slow down the spread. there is research. google it.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 05:16 PM

I think Boris Johnson should have recommended masks & should not be asking posties to deliver his letters.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 12:05 PM

Weird. I had no trouble getting in at first but now there are no data.

Interesting article on why no ventilators:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/29/business/coronavirus-us-ventilator-shortage.html


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 09:19 AM

It might be cool and informative to you, but I can't get past that stupid Captcha page in spite of four attempts to spot bears in extremely indistinct photos. So bugger it.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: G-Force
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 09:17 AM

I suppose you get what you pay for. Pile'em high, sell 'em cheap, kill 'em off.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 09:12 AM

https://covidnearyou.org/

Cool and informative map.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 07:14 AM

We went to Morrisons yesterday Steve (one out in the sticks, with a mainly elderly clientele) and were very impressed with their arrangements. Supervision of distancing outside and inside the shop, strict control of queues at the tills, screens put up to protect the till staff, everyone assiduously keeping their distance. Our trolley was wiped over and disinfected by a lady in a mask at the door. Most commendable.
However, I read on Mumsnet yesterday that Lidl are not bothering particularly, as you say, and should be avoided at all costs.
Are people completely daft? It's blooming obvious that these measures should be strictly put in place.
We got some extra supplies for a poor young woman in our village who has a sick child of two and is alone. She has little money and we're all supporting her. We left our offerings on her doorstep, knocked and drove away.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 06:31 AM

Last week I went to Bude Morrisons once and Holsworthy Waitrose once (sounds like I'm doing too much shopping, but I'm also helping out older friends who are self-isolating). The precautions being taken to control customer numbers, distancing, queuing in the car parks and checkout monitoring were exemplary at both. Waitrose allowed just twenty in the store at any one time and only twenty trolleys were in use, each of which was sanitised between customers. Both shops had signs up everywhere and there were frequent announcements over the PA. Well I went to Bude Lidl yesterday afternoon. Following the visit, I sent the following email to Lidl's head office:

When I visited this store today, there were hardly any measures in place to protect staff and customers. There was no control of customers entering. There was no sanitisation of baskets and trolleys. There were marks on the floor at the tills (nowhere else) but there was no supervision. There were no signs up in the shop. The narrow aisles meant that customers passing each other were far too close together, and many customers were simply not complying with the 2-metre rule. The protection of staff at checkouts was virtually non-existent. My visit to the store, for the purpose of shopping for a couple over 70 who are self-isolating, was most unnerving, and I won't be visiting the store again. My experience was in stark contrast to two other stores in my area, where very responsible controlling of customers and careful sanitisation were being carried out, and in both of which careful controlling of checkout queues was being carried out. I simply couldn't understand the wild-west approach to the crisis that seems to be prevailing at this store. I hope you will take this message seriously and take prompt action to do the right thing. Thank you.
Steve Shaw


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 03:20 AM

The UK government are sending a letter to every household in the land. WTF? Putting strain on the already overstretched postal service and increasing the risk of spreading the virus. I have just read it online. It says nothing we don't already know.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: leeneia
Date: 28 Mar 20 - 09:46 PM

The newspaper had a disturbing report yesterday. Child-abuse reports in Kansas and Missouri are down 50% from the usual, because many reports come from schools, and schools are not in session.

I have no doubt that all parts of the world where schools are closed are seeing the same thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 08:11 PM

https://slate.com/technology/2020/03/coronavirus-sense-of-smell-nytimes-fact-check.html


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 08:10 PM

Or... Maybe not:


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 07:28 PM

Only 30 people tested positive at work out of 32,000 employees.
It is a big place with its own power plant, waste disposal and fire department.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: robomatic
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 07:22 PM

God Save the Queen (seriously, she met with Boris earlier in March. Hopefully, this was before he shook the hands of Covid patients).


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 01:04 PM

"For all practical purposes the difference between a cold and 'flu is severity."

Absolutely not the case. Unless you're talking about a cold and man flu. The two illnesses are quite distinct in speed of onset, symptoms and severity. I've had flu five times in my life. No runny or blocked-up nose, no sneezing. Aching limbs, tender skin all over, fever, nausea, severe headache, unable to get out of bed, utter exhaustion. If you're lucky. A dose of flu can down you in an hour from your feeling just fine.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 11:13 AM

*And* the British health minister.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 10:50 AM

The coronavirus that's causing this pandemic doesn't give you common cold symptoms

Of the many things that give you a cold, coronaviridae are included. There are 5 coronaviruses that affect humans (many many more that affect other mammals), three are more serious, MERS, SARS-CoV and SARS-CoV2.

For all practical purposes the difference between a cold and 'flu is severity. The symptoms are better described as a syndrome, you may not get all of them. Especially if you caught a whiff of SARS-CoV the first time.

Musk may have done a few stupid things, but he ain't stupid when it comes to seeing a need and driving a huge thick wedge through it. And if riding the publicity was his worst vice - we can tolerate that. Surely.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 08:45 AM

I am sure I am not the only one who thought "is this yet another of his populist ploys?".

I have read that a lot of times elsewhere already, so you are not. It shows how depressingly low our trust of politicians has got that the thought even occurs to us.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 08:35 AM

They say Boris has it. I hope he is safe and stays well but I am sure I am not the only one who thought "is this yet another of his populist ploys?".


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 08:35 AM

Meat eating in Lent
It seems that many bishops are issuing dispensations for this at the moment.
The above example is from New Jersey, but a search for "Meat in Lent" via Google news will find many examples.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 08:28 AM

Ok to eat meat on Fridays dduring Lent!


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