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BS: New news on the pandemic

Mrrzy 23 Mar 20 - 11:25 AM
Donuel 23 Mar 20 - 11:32 AM
Donuel 23 Mar 20 - 11:35 AM
Iains 23 Mar 20 - 12:15 PM
DMcG 23 Mar 20 - 12:37 PM
Iains 23 Mar 20 - 01:16 PM
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Donuel 23 Mar 20 - 06:36 PM
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DMcG 24 Mar 20 - 05:36 AM
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Iains 24 Mar 20 - 07:29 AM
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Iains 24 Mar 20 - 07:42 AM
Mrrzy 24 Mar 20 - 09:00 AM
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gillymor 24 Mar 20 - 01:56 PM
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Iains 24 Mar 20 - 05:04 PM
keberoxu 24 Mar 20 - 05:08 PM
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gillymor 24 Mar 20 - 05:24 PM
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Iains 25 Mar 20 - 04:21 AM
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mayomick 25 Mar 20 - 05:16 AM
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Dave the Gnome 25 Mar 20 - 05:38 AM
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mayomick 25 Mar 20 - 05:47 AM
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robomatic 27 Mar 20 - 07:22 PM
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Subject: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 11:25 AM

Apparently it kills, or can kill, your sense of smell:

https://www.boston.com/news/health/2020/03/23/coronavirus-sense-of-smell/amp

Also Ohio is canceling "nonessential abortions" -- what on earth is a cosmetic abortion?


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 11:32 AM

It is elective surgury.

My sense of smell is off the charts. I'd hate to lose it.

The oldest Congress of US Senators in history is in grave danger

3 are down already


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 11:35 AM

https://www.quorum.us/data-driven-insights/the-115th-congress-is-among-the-oldest-in-history/175/


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 12:15 PM

Almost two thirds of critically ill coronavirus patients are overweight and 37% are under 60, NHS audit reveals

    Excess weight against chest makes it harder for muscles to draw in deep breath
    Weak immune system allows COVID-19 to spread to lungs and cause pneumonia
    These two factors may explain why two thirds of ICU coronavirus patients obese
    Comes as coronavirus death toll in UK rises to 281 and infections sit at 5,600


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 12:37 PM

And in the general population?

"In the 2017 survey, it found that 28.7% of adults in England are obese and a further 35.6% are overweight, making a total of 64.3% who are either overweight or obese. 2 Of obese adults, around one in eight are morbidly obese (3.6% of all adults)"

Or almost two thirds. So the correlation of the virus and being overweight is uncertain at best.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 01:16 PM

You may be right, after all it   was the daily wail reporting. However the statistic is accurate, as is the explanation for the obese requiring intubation. The factor to carry away is that having the virus is a heightened risk if overweight


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 01:21 PM

But that is exactly the factor you cannot carry away. In *any* random sample of people from England you would expect about two thirds to be overweight. In so far as the figures show anything, they suggest being overweight has no bearing at all on your chances of survival. Of course, a formal analysis would be required, but the prima facie evidence suggests there is no connection.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 01:24 PM

It matters, by the way, because we don't want people thinking "I am not overweight so my risk is lower." As far as we can tell so far, it isn't.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 06:36 PM

best case worst case scenario nyt


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 04:58 AM

Obesity carries inherant heightened health risks:
Heart disease and stroke.
High blood pressure.
Diabetes.
Cancer.
Gallbladder disease and gallstones.
Osteoarthritis.
Gout.
Breathing problems, such as sleep apnea

Many are associated with increased mortality from Covid-19
In Italy, 76.1% of patients who died from COVID-19 had hypertension, or high blood pressure.
One-third of COVID-19 patients who died in Italy had heart disease.
About one-quarter of people who died from the coronavirus in Italy had atrial fibrillation.
Diabetes was the second most common condition among COVID-19 patients who died: 35.5% had the illness.
Of those who died in Italy, 20.3% had active cancer in the past five years.
The study found that 18% of people who died had chronic kidney disease.
Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease — or lung diseases such as chronic emphysema and bronchitis — was present in 13.2% of the people who died.
People who previously had a stroke made up 9.6% of COVID-19 patients who died in Italy.
In Italy, 6.8% of COVID-19 patients who died had dementia.Chronic liver disease was the 10th most common underlying condition.
My take on this is that if you are overweight you likely have one or more underlying conditions that rank you with a higher risk.
Statistically if you are obese youa re more likely to die.Reducing weight reduces the risk eg less pressure on the heart, perhaps no more diabetes (if type 2 etc.).................
*Type 2 = remission not cure it might be more accurate to say
My source article insisted on mixing up percentages and fractions- not me.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:36 AM

Again, Iains, you quote all those numbers without saying how common they are in the general population.

No one is saying being overweight or obese is good for you, or is without risks. But as yet there is insufficient evidence that you are more liable to become critically ill with coronavirus because of it. That evidence may arrive in time.

But for the moment: EVERYONE should act as if they are as susceptible as everyone else. Not developing the idea that 'that group is at greater risk than I am'. It is no exaggeration to say that attitude could cost lives.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 06:14 AM

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/which-groups-are-most-at-risk-from-the-coronavirus/


https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/03/22/819846180/study-calculates-just-how-much-age-medical-conditions
Statistically if you are obese you have underlying conditions
underlying conditions make you more vulnerable to covid-19
How many of those conditions are created,enhanced by obesity.
No one argues that cigarette smoking is good for you anymore!
Why is that?
Perhaps the same mindset should apply to obesity(apart from that created by medical conditions)
The reason 60$ of people on ventilators are obese is because gluttony
has a downside.
original report below.

https://www.icnarc.org/About/Latest-News/2020/03/22/Report-On-196-Patients-Critically-Ill-With-Covid-19   (open it up and extract the document inside)

Oxford University research found that moderate obesity, which is now common, reduces life expectancy by about 3 years, and that severe obesity, which is still uncommon, can shorten a person's life by 10 years. This 10 year loss is equal to the effects of lifelong smoking.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 07:11 AM

I haven't heard anything, in spite of being inundated with Coronavirus news like everyone else, that loss of smell or taste are symptoms of Coronavirus. As for acid environments, the pH up your nose as you inhale virus particles, or in your eyes or mouth, is quite likely to be the much same as everyone else's. I know you like to be different and stand out from the crowd, but I might suggest you stick to known facts when it comes to this issue. It's worrying enough without rumour-mongers putting their oar in.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 07:27 AM

Well I did just find this:

"The group wants doctors worldwide to tell their patients to isolate themselves for seven days if they begin to lose their sense of smell or taste, even if they do not have any other COVID-19 symptoms, The New York Times reported. Losing those senses is also a frequent symptom of the common cold, another, milder form of coronavirus.


RELATED: Here’s How to Tell If That Sneeze Is Coronavirus, the Flu or Just a Cold..."

Either you're a sucker who believes everything, or you can take cod-science with a pinch of salt. I mean, when you know that most colds are not caused by coronaviruses and that sneezing is not a symptom of Covid-19, would you believe anything else in the article? Losing your sense of smell happens when you get a cold or other upper respiratory tract infection when you already have the other miserable symptoms. Stick to the dry cough and fever is my advice...not that anyone should listen to my advice...


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 07:29 AM

The American Academy of Otolaryngology posted on its website this week that the amount of anecdotal evidence of anosmia, hyposmia (reduced ability to smell), and dysgeusia (reduced sense of taste) is significant enough that they are added to the list of screening tools for possible infection.

ENT surgeons in the UK also issued a statement urging that anosmia should be categorized as an important symptom that may indicate infection in an otherwise asymptomatic carrier, allowing clinicians at COVID-19 clinics to quickly rule out or confirm this subtle symptom.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 07:32 AM

I can easily persuade myself that my sense of smell isn't quite as good as it was yesterday. Let's stick to the dry cough and fever.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 07:42 AM

When the asymoptomatic are totally unknown in the population and testing is not general it makes sense to use every tool you can. Were this not the case Doctors would not say:
It is significant enough that they are added to the list of screening tools for possible infection.

Cod are best left in the sea I say - the stocks need to recover after EU depradations.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 09:00 AM

No abortions are elective, though. They are needed, not wanted.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 09:36 AM

Mrrzy I understand yet there are meaningful semantics on each side.
owzat for diplomacy? Unlike elective cosmetic surgury it is somthing that can't be postponed.

There are 4 distinct colds caused by a corona varient.

Rhinovirus: This bunch is most active in early fall, spring, and summer. They cause 10%-40% of colds. You'll feel plenty miserable when you catch one, but the good news is they rarely make you seriously sick

Coronavirus. These tend to do their dirty work in the winter and early spring. The coronavirus is the cause of about 20% of colds. There are more than 30 kinds, but only three or four affect people.

RSV and parainfluenza. These viruses cause 20% of colds. They sometimes lead to severe infections, like pneumonia, in young children.



Starbucks will pay employees for 30 days no matter what.


The Stock market has hit bottom and is now becoming a buying opportunity. butcha gotta bee quick.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 09:47 AM

We would agree that pandemic Corona has now become the #1 cold symptom virus n'est pas.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jeri
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 09:56 AM

From WebMD:

"There are more than 200 [viruses]that can lay you low.

It's likely that someday you'll have a close encounter with one of these types:

Rhinovirus
Coronavirus
RSV and parainfluenza

There are also a lot of viruses that doctors haven't identified. About 20%-30% of colds in adults are caused by these "unknown" bugs."


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 10:43 AM

Elon Musk is producing respirators. Some 3D printers are capable of doing so as well.

While Trump wants isolation to end as soon as Monday for the sake of the economy there is not a damn thing he can do about it. Its up to govenors and mayors.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 10:58 AM

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how you objectively assess whether someone's taste or smell has changed between not having coronavirus (when you wouldn't have thought of asking them about it) and having coronavirus. Leading questions, anyone? At least you can hear someone's cough and measure their temperature...The last thing we need is false positives.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 11:08 AM

"We would agree that pandemic Corona has now become the #1 cold symptom virus n'est pas."

No we wouldn't. The coronavirus that's causing this pandemic doesn't give you common cold symptoms. Stick to what we actually know.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 11:21 AM

no matter the POV won't save lives.


Trump to NYC "FUCK YOU" I'm keeping ventilators in Federal stock pile


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jeri
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 11:41 AM

A couple of days ago "#presidentcuomo" was trending on Twitter. I don't know about him being president, but he's sure fulfilling the role Trump SHOUD be assuming. His behavior in this crisis will hopefully wake some of his idiot followers up.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 12:50 PM

You can only notice your own sense of smell, unless your roommate suddenly can't tell the milk is off.

No olympics.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 12:55 PM

It really isn’t helpful when the combed-over Orange-Utan currently infesting the White House spreads false information.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 12:59 PM

Since networks have dropped Trump's corona task force which turned into an election rally, so now FOX has an exclusive task force Trump town hall.
Dr. Fauci the world leading infectious disease expert has been REPLACED !

In his stead is the great and powerful Dr. OZ who plays a doctor on TV.    no shit.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 01:56 PM

I can't find any indication that Fauci has been replaced by Dr.Oz.
Is this another detour from reality?


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 04:23 PM

India has shut down.

Texas has joined Ohio in banning cosmetic abortions, whatever they are.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:04 PM

Interesting article on superforecasting and how it likely shaped Britain's response. It is not often the Express is worth quoting but I have not seen this information elsewhere.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1259539/coronavirus-uk-lockdown-cases-deaths-boris-johnson-dominic-cummings-spt


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: keberoxu
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:08 PM

Gillymor,
this appears to be another Donuel satire;

Mr. Fauci spoke to the New York Daily News
protesting against the mutterings
about Fauci's absence from Trump's press conference Monday.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:12 PM

The Fox exclusive Trump Town Hall in the rose garden, had Dr Oz for questions, I watched it, they had no other Doctors. What is this detour from reality propoganda. You're the one from Texas where UN conspiracy theories are born. I'm from the beltway where reality goes to die..
As for the Task force with j kushner, who never appears, I don't know.

I am on a Fauci watch later today


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:23 PM

Anyone else missing the little things like a haircut, dentist, pancakes, chinese food, 7-11, WaWa, Subway...?,


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:24 PM

More good common sense from Texas

I figured Fauci's days were numbered, nobody upstages the blob and besides, highly competent, truth-telling, professionals aren't welcome in his administration.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:46 PM

Fauci is back right behind Trump in his fart vector.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:50 PM

btw, Fauci is on stage with Twit for the CV task force briefing taking place at this moment and, good news, it will all be over by Easter and the churches will be full and it will be beautiful. This dude's elevator doesn't go to the top floor.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:54 PM

Hitler would have loved manipulating a pandemic. I think Trump has been drinking liquid luck. Trump argued at his Town Hall how trading old decrepid lives for the economy is practicly a patriotic thing to do.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:58 PM

There is one senior citizen I can think of whose demise would greatly benefit this country and the world.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 06:17 PM

Watching NBC on broadcast TV and whitehouse.gov on the laptop. From my vantage point, the television feed is about ten minutes AHEAD of the White House feed. Is the delay I'm experiencing via the internet or is the white house putting a delay on its own feed?


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 06:22 PM

NPR is even ahead of the TV feed.

I suspect each of us has a dark list we will not say aloud regarding the Covid 19 affliction.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 06:28 PM

I think my laptop internet feed was slow not because of a white house delay. Hitting 'refresh' changed the apparent time lag each time.

At least Dr. Fauci is back and still calling the believable shots. Trump looks as usual, like he's a big dumb face on a stick that is trying to control its expression to look serious and like it knows what's going on.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 08:07 PM

I mentioned it once before but it looks like this finding is real.
Men are twice as likly to die of Covid 19 than women. !!!!!!
I don't believe in vengeful wrath of god crap but it looks like older men have a target on their back.'


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 08:32 PM

That is a very premature conclusion. It may apply so far to Italy and China but not elsewhere. The majority in South Korea, very likely the country that monitors the best, is only very slightly skewed towards males. It's also worth noting that 48% of Chinese men smoke and just 2% of Chinese women. And it is a respiratory tract infection after all. You need to dig deeper before blurting out your simplistic claims.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 04:21 AM

Gender disparities are seen in South Korea as well, where men make up almost 62 percent of cases, and once an infection takes hold, it is 89 percent more likely to be fatal in men.

https://www.labroots.com/trending/microbiology/17118/susceptible-covid-19-women

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30526-2/fulltext

A still evolving story

In Italy 23% smoke,28% men, in the UK 15%
Italy has an older population.
Itally has greater resistance to antibiotics than the rest of Europe. This does not help when secondary respiratory infections occur.
Professor Walter Ricciardi, Scientific Adviser to Italy’s Minister of Health, reports, “On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three.”


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 04:24 AM

Do those Chinese women inhale the men's smoke though Steve? Passive smoking. And from what I've heard on TV, the air pollution in the more industrial parts of China is dire.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mayomick
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 05:16 AM

I don't want to sound non-alarmist but .......... https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/?fbclid=IwAR1wK8PJ-yDvpa3DH-GGJ_3CRP6AhnJBd_I_agfZ33ML_0ewQ7P40AvcwSw
anyone ?


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mayomick
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 05:27 AM

click click https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/?fbclid=IwAR1wK8PJ-yDvpa3DH-GGJ_3CRP6AhnJBd_I_agfZ33ML_0ewQ7P40AvcwSw


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 05:38 AM

Did anyone see the film footage of the London underground yesterday? There was also a news item on construction work in the city. As most of this construction seems to be non essential would it not make sense to call a halt to it?


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 05:39 AM

The finding is still a mystery. The leading conjecture is that men engage in life long risky behavior perhaps as simple as drinking and smoking.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mayomick
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 05:47 AM

there are sex differences in longevity in species other than humans Female mammals are usually the longer-lived sex: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4932837/


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mayomick
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 06:18 AM

"In humans, our cells contain different chromosomes, depending on sex. Females have two X chromosomes while males have an X and a Y. The theory is that the extra X in women has a protective effect against harmful mutations and that this holds true in other species"

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-52007780


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 08:07 AM

Cloroquine (anti-malarial) doesn't work after all, and is in a brand name of aquarium cleaner that idiots are eating.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 08:20 AM

Ih yeah


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 08:20 AM

Oops, meant oh yeah, and Prince Charles.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 12:02 PM

Just announced on BBC News, a 21 year old woman with no underlying medical issues has died from Covid-19 in the UK.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 12:28 PM

Whether its conjecture or false information, with no current cure or treatmnt except for forced oxygen, people will get desperate.

I can even see myself gobblimg aspirin and musinex and zithromax and penicillin even if I know there is no proof it would work.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 03:25 PM

Dave the Gnome.
Yes, it might make sense to stop (unnecessary) construction work. But, many construction workers are self-employed sub-contractors who don't know yet what provision the government will make for them. As such I can understand them wishing to continue working.
I was a civil servant, in an office which is currently still open. I'm so glad I retired!


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 04:16 PM

Jackson Browne has it.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 04:21 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/03/25/coronavirus-patients-do-not-resucitate/


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 04:55 PM

The CVS pharmacy refused to sell me the 90 day insulin prescription on 3 consecutive days. Today they had it but reduced the prescription to 28 days at a 3000% price increase. I hope this is not being done across the board to everyone.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 26 Mar 20 - 08:20 AM

Donuel:
Amazon announced its $1 billion acquisition of PillPack in June, sending shares of retail pharmacy companies like CVS Health, Rite Aid and Walgreens plummeting. ... The company said it is licensed to ship prescriptions to all states except Hawaii and can fill schedule III, IV and V medications.Apr 24, 2019


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 26 Mar 20 - 08:25 AM

Something else you could not make up. From Guido as well.
Hilarious!

A Democrat in support of Boris the Bountiful


https://order-order.com/2020/03/26/sanders-praises-sunak/


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 20 - 08:44 AM

Semi truck trailers are being used to stack bodies outside hospitals in NYC.

The great escape from NYC has probably caused an infection near you.

Montana has the best numbers with under one thousand infections.

Trump is trying to sue TV stations that have ads showing his diminishd capacity. They broadcast his own 'words'


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 08:12 AM

Boris!


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 08:28 AM

Ok to eat meat on Fridays dduring Lent!


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 08:35 AM

Meat eating in Lent
It seems that many bishops are issuing dispensations for this at the moment.
The above example is from New Jersey, but a search for "Meat in Lent" via Google news will find many examples.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 08:35 AM

They say Boris has it. I hope he is safe and stays well but I am sure I am not the only one who thought "is this yet another of his populist ploys?".


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 08:45 AM

I am sure I am not the only one who thought "is this yet another of his populist ploys?".

I have read that a lot of times elsewhere already, so you are not. It shows how depressingly low our trust of politicians has got that the thought even occurs to us.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 10:50 AM

The coronavirus that's causing this pandemic doesn't give you common cold symptoms

Of the many things that give you a cold, coronaviridae are included. There are 5 coronaviruses that affect humans (many many more that affect other mammals), three are more serious, MERS, SARS-CoV and SARS-CoV2.

For all practical purposes the difference between a cold and 'flu is severity. The symptoms are better described as a syndrome, you may not get all of them. Especially if you caught a whiff of SARS-CoV the first time.

Musk may have done a few stupid things, but he ain't stupid when it comes to seeing a need and driving a huge thick wedge through it. And if riding the publicity was his worst vice - we can tolerate that. Surely.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 11:13 AM

*And* the British health minister.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 01:04 PM

"For all practical purposes the difference between a cold and 'flu is severity."

Absolutely not the case. Unless you're talking about a cold and man flu. The two illnesses are quite distinct in speed of onset, symptoms and severity. I've had flu five times in my life. No runny or blocked-up nose, no sneezing. Aching limbs, tender skin all over, fever, nausea, severe headache, unable to get out of bed, utter exhaustion. If you're lucky. A dose of flu can down you in an hour from your feeling just fine.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: robomatic
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 07:22 PM

God Save the Queen (seriously, she met with Boris earlier in March. Hopefully, this was before he shook the hands of Covid patients).


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 07:28 PM

Only 30 people tested positive at work out of 32,000 employees.
It is a big place with its own power plant, waste disposal and fire department.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 08:10 PM

Or... Maybe not:


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 08:11 PM

https://slate.com/technology/2020/03/coronavirus-sense-of-smell-nytimes-fact-check.html


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: leeneia
Date: 28 Mar 20 - 09:46 PM

The newspaper had a disturbing report yesterday. Child-abuse reports in Kansas and Missouri are down 50% from the usual, because many reports come from schools, and schools are not in session.

I have no doubt that all parts of the world where schools are closed are seeing the same thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 03:20 AM

The UK government are sending a letter to every household in the land. WTF? Putting strain on the already overstretched postal service and increasing the risk of spreading the virus. I have just read it online. It says nothing we don't already know.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 06:31 AM

Last week I went to Bude Morrisons once and Holsworthy Waitrose once (sounds like I'm doing too much shopping, but I'm also helping out older friends who are self-isolating). The precautions being taken to control customer numbers, distancing, queuing in the car parks and checkout monitoring were exemplary at both. Waitrose allowed just twenty in the store at any one time and only twenty trolleys were in use, each of which was sanitised between customers. Both shops had signs up everywhere and there were frequent announcements over the PA. Well I went to Bude Lidl yesterday afternoon. Following the visit, I sent the following email to Lidl's head office:

When I visited this store today, there were hardly any measures in place to protect staff and customers. There was no control of customers entering. There was no sanitisation of baskets and trolleys. There were marks on the floor at the tills (nowhere else) but there was no supervision. There were no signs up in the shop. The narrow aisles meant that customers passing each other were far too close together, and many customers were simply not complying with the 2-metre rule. The protection of staff at checkouts was virtually non-existent. My visit to the store, for the purpose of shopping for a couple over 70 who are self-isolating, was most unnerving, and I won't be visiting the store again. My experience was in stark contrast to two other stores in my area, where very responsible controlling of customers and careful sanitisation were being carried out, and in both of which careful controlling of checkout queues was being carried out. I simply couldn't understand the wild-west approach to the crisis that seems to be prevailing at this store. I hope you will take this message seriously and take prompt action to do the right thing. Thank you.
Steve Shaw


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 07:14 AM

We went to Morrisons yesterday Steve (one out in the sticks, with a mainly elderly clientele) and were very impressed with their arrangements. Supervision of distancing outside and inside the shop, strict control of queues at the tills, screens put up to protect the till staff, everyone assiduously keeping their distance. Our trolley was wiped over and disinfected by a lady in a mask at the door. Most commendable.
However, I read on Mumsnet yesterday that Lidl are not bothering particularly, as you say, and should be avoided at all costs.
Are people completely daft? It's blooming obvious that these measures should be strictly put in place.
We got some extra supplies for a poor young woman in our village who has a sick child of two and is alone. She has little money and we're all supporting her. We left our offerings on her doorstep, knocked and drove away.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 09:12 AM

https://covidnearyou.org/

Cool and informative map.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: G-Force
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 09:17 AM

I suppose you get what you pay for. Pile'em high, sell 'em cheap, kill 'em off.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 09:19 AM

It might be cool and informative to you, but I can't get past that stupid Captcha page in spite of four attempts to spot bears in extremely indistinct photos. So bugger it.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 12:05 PM

Weird. I had no trouble getting in at first but now there are no data.

Interesting article on why no ventilators:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/29/business/coronavirus-us-ventilator-shortage.html


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 05:16 PM

I think Boris Johnson should have recommended masks & should not be asking posties to deliver his letters.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 06:32 PM

we all need to wear masks or some face covering. make our own so we are not accused of robbing them from nurses. it should be mandatory. it would slow down the spread. there is research. google it.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 06:44 PM

Most masks don't work, except as a money-spinner for spivs. A false sense of security isn't exactly what we currently need.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 12:04 AM

Shit. John Prine.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 03:23 AM

Again, Iains, you quote all those numbers without saying how common they are in the general population

There are a few things going on there.
1) how likely are you to contract COVID-19? - social distancing apart (pun intended) - it is no respecter of status, be careful!
2) If you can't be careful, be lucky
3) If you can't be careful, have a healthy/lucky lifestyle.
4) If you can't be careful, be young (I am working on that one)
5) Some of the people we rely on like doctors and nurses (+ police, firemen etc) may be vulnerable yet answer the call. And pay the price. It has happened.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 06:59 AM

Steve, I guess that masks are less effective if we are in close proximity to someone without one and do not help with surface to hand transmission so if someone takes of their masks before washing their hands it does kind of negate any benefit.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 07:03 AM

I wish the media would be a bit more discerning when reporting individual health announcements and wait for peer validated announcements. We are getting so many mixed messages.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 07:58 AM

The secret to peer into the future is to scrutinize the past.

In 1919-1920 people grew weary and stopped the very same social distancing measures we use today. As a result when the second wave arrived it was more catastrophic than it needed to be. And again with the 3rd wave.

Their past is our future.

Our own behavior will exaccerbate the outome but does not cause the 2nd and 3rd wave.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Rain Dog
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 09:33 AM

Steve Shaw posted a copy of the email he sent to Lidl "I simply couldn't understand the wild-west approach to the crisis that seems to be prevailing at this store."

I thought that you did live in the wild-west. Here in the calm south east we do have a Lidl at an out of town location. Not been to it myself as I don't have a car plus it would mean travelling up north.

Stay safe everyone.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 12:27 PM

The secret to peer into the future is to scrutinize the past.

Usually. But it relies on people looking for the similarities. As I find when drawing analogies in discussions like in this parish. Similarities are ignored or denigrated by comments that show the differences and by implication the analogy is dismissed.

History is an analogy for the future. It is different now, we know more (aka more intelligent?????) now.

If we are more intelligent - we will see the similarities as warnings and differences as boundaries/borders to the similarities.

FWIW History can show there danger of a second wave of epidemic, as we relax. I fear, not predict.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 02:10 PM

Virginia is now under stay-at-home orders.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 02:22 PM

Steve Shaw posted a copy of the email he sent to Lidl "I simply couldn't understand the wild-west approach to the crisis that seems to be prevailing at this store."

It's not so wild in Bude! Very civilised. I received what looks like a very standardised reply today saying that they're getting on with it, sort of thing. Getting on with what everybody else was doing a week or more ago...

I'm not proud and I use Lidl, Aldi and Poundland as well as Waitrose... the Fire Tree Nero d'Avola at £4.49 at Aldi is the best value red I've found in years.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 02:50 PM

An historian pointed out the fact that cities that carried out parades suffered the most. Today that was New Orleans.

The rest of the country is fueled with new infections by, of all things, Basketball pick up games. TOO BAD there are no public service announcements that the young would listen to. Even if they do, there is an element of defiance or possibly pay back.

The mitigation bucket has lots of holes in it with beaches, stores, homeless, prisons, first responders - (the list is long) , hospitals and elder care facilites.

But its the only bucket we have.

Red, fear is a fine mitigating factor.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: leeneia
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 04:36 PM

Yesterday a columnist wrote a vivid and worrying description of what it can be like to have a moderate case of Covid 19. He wrote of lying in bed for a long time, shivering and terribly cold. He even dreamed of riding in a frozen landscape.

But now I ask myself, how about an electric blanket, hot drinks, hot water bottle, chicken soup, hot shower? Was there not one person on the earth who would lend a helping hand? We're not talking about a destitute or derelict person here.

Nonetheless, what he wrote certainly firmed my resolve not to get this virus.
================
I'm often cold at night, esp. my feet and legs. I ordered a big heating pad from Dr. Leonard's catalog, which concentrates on heating those very same feet and legs. Its control goes from 1 to 10, and I only have to put it on 1 or 2. Yet I am sleeping much better than I have in a long time.
==========
A couple of months ago, I asked for a hot water bottle at my local Walgreen's, and they didn't know what I was talking about. They had them.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 05:15 PM

100


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 05:21 PM

”But now I ask myself, how about an electric blanket, hot drinks, hot water bottle, chicken soup, hot shower? Was there not one person on the earth who would lend a helping hand? We're not talking about a destitute or derelict person here.”

Those were the last things he needed - he was shivering and felt cold because he had a fever, a.k.a. a high temperature. The shivering caused by a fever is called ‘Rigors’ and the treatment, perhaps counter-intuitively, is to cool the patient - often by using a fan to cool them down.

Electric blankets, hot drinks, hot water bottles, would increase the fever and result in him feeling even colder.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 05:25 PM

My sister is still very ill with the virus, and she describes being raging hot, and an inability to breathe as if one is suffocating with a very heavy weight one the chest. Incessant coughing and great weakness.
Add to this, she lives all alone in a Scottish village in Tayside.
I expect all sufferers have differing symptoms, depending on their state of health before they succumbed.
Bless her, she's still talking about volunteering once she's better, as presumably she'll have immunity. But is it certain that one can't get it twice?


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 07:17 PM

When it feels like a 250 lb person is sitting on your chest is when a ventilator can lessen the stress.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 09:16 PM

please everyone..make your own masks and don't be afraid to be the first to wear them. i will try to post some good epidemiological links later. i get most of my information from following epidemiologists and virologists on twitter and there don't tend to be links. start following epidemiologists. this is what i came across..google for yourselves...Israel on the verge of making masks mandatory. germany about to make mandatory in supermarkets. Czechoslovakia already mandatory. several asian countries mandatory but i don't know which ones. it has been idiotic to read these comments that they don't work. if they work by 4% that is good. Of course, wash them daily and hang in sun if possible. Don't count on your bus neighbor washing her hands. People don't. It is not to save yourself...it is to collectively save others.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 12:11 AM

Davide Capodanno
@DFCapodanno
The rapid pace of knowledge on #COVID19 leads to revisit your beliefs every 5 minutes. Surgical masks are the most typical example: we went from mocking the few who had them up to the current belief that we should all wear masks for months when things go back to pseudo-normality.

from twitter. was lots on twitter yesterday and more coming right now. find epidemiologists on twitter and follow them if you have anything you think is profound to say. (he is not an epidemiologist but an Italian cardiologist).

please do due diligence and research this. there is no downside i can think of from clean, homemade masks. there is group protection. don't just wear them..pass the word. ask people why they are not wearing something.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 02:36 AM

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/top-chinese-health-official-warns-114801914.html

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/top-chinese-health-official-warns-114801914.html

we will have allowed so many people to die over this foolishness. we surely should have figured out we were being lied to. if the reason was to protect a scarce supply, they should have removed the costco masks from the supply going to medics etc. and they should have told the truth...if they work for the nurses, they will work for people in general, but it is more important to protect the nurses. of course it is. they could then say, make your own. make extra. you must wear them in shops and on the bus. bus drivers are now dying. being a smartass here or elsewhere about this is cruel and unnecessary,


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 03:52 AM

the treatment, perhaps counter-intuitively

Well I'm no medical expert, but the experts I see/read tell me that the high temps are the bodies evolved response to slow down the virus because it struggles at higher temperatures.
Indeed the time honoured advice of lemon, honey & an aspirin is forwned on, because acetylsalicylic acid is vaso-dilatory** which cools you down, thus lengthening recovery.
Yer pays yer money and takes yer choice.

** so is whisky (or whiskey) - but then who cares?.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 04:07 AM

In case anybody doesn't look into the UK politics thread I've taken the liberty of repeating DtheG's link HERE
Everybody should be fully aware what is happening
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 04:15 AM

toilet rolls reward for finding missing cockatiel

Living in interesting times!


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 04:24 AM

I see that there are now 165 cases in Ivory Coast, mostly in Abidjan. Husband is frantic with worry for his numerous family. No 'lockdown' as such, just a curfew and mosques/schools closed. But people are out on the streets, going to markets etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 09:28 AM

Merde, Senoufou.

I think Virginia has canceled my annual tripping naked hippie springtime Float Trip (it is Memorial Day weekend and stay-home is till June 10). Merde all over again.

Face masks keep you from *giving* but not from getting germs. Worth it.

Texas has ruled the abortion ban to be unconstitutional and unenforceable so that is something.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 11:01 AM

Nurses are not afraid of giving the virus to their dying patients. They are afraid of getting it. And I was wondering if dogs could be used to sniff out fever and this illness. They are being tried out in several countries I believe.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 11:16 AM

Alabama also. I joined the ACLU as soon as Trump was sworn in, and have kept that membership going.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 11:44 AM

”Well I'm no medical expert, but the experts I see/read tell me that the high temps are the bodies evolved response to slow down the virus because it struggles at higher temperatures.
Indeed the time honoured advice of lemon, honey & an aspirin is forwned on, because acetylsalicylic acid is vaso-dilatory** which cools you down, thus lengthening recovery.
Yer pays yer money and takes yer choice.“


Well, I was speaking from personal experience, as a patient with high fever and severe rigors on a significant number of occasions over the past fifteen years due to life-threatening infections, of the treatment that was given to me. I was shivering uncontrollably and very painfully to the point of exhaustion, but the things I desperately wanted - heat, warmer bedding, etc., were refused by the medical staff at QMC Nottingham and, instead, thin bedding and a fan were used to reduce my fevers on each occasion. Whilst it’s true that a high temperature is part of the body’s defence against bacterial or viral infections, very high temperatures - >40C - are, in themselves, life-threatening and need to be reduced.

But don’t just take my word for it - scroll down to the last section of the article.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 01:53 PM

Re (NOT) funding charities in trouble from covid19, in a good nation in a good United Nations there would be no need for private (competing) charities where, if a celebrity gets involved e.g., some get more than they need & others not enough.

And re news of garden centres in trouble - good, if they are selling exotics rather than the native flora that our native fauna EVOLVED WITH; some photos of Levenshulme Allotments, with native gardening advice here


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 04:01 PM

Well I'm outraged that my local garden centre is closed whereas Bude Morrisons and B&M, both of which have more or less separate mini-garden centres, can carry on regardless. That just isn't right. I'm with Titchmarsh on this. Unless the policy changes I'm boycotting all supermarket gardening departments.


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Mudcat time: 31 March 11:26 PM EDT

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