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BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19

Stilly River Sage 02 May 21 - 12:25 PM
Mrrzy 01 May 21 - 09:23 AM
Jack Campin 01 May 21 - 05:28 AM
The Sandman 01 May 21 - 04:35 AM
Allan Conn 01 May 21 - 03:55 AM
Rain Dog 01 May 21 - 03:49 AM
The Sandman 01 May 21 - 03:13 AM
Steve Shaw 30 Apr 21 - 07:14 PM
Mrrzy 30 Apr 21 - 06:27 PM
Jack Campin 30 Apr 21 - 03:17 PM
The Sandman 30 Apr 21 - 11:54 AM
The Sandman 30 Apr 21 - 09:02 AM
Rain Dog 30 Apr 21 - 05:46 AM
Steve Shaw 30 Apr 21 - 05:43 AM
The Sandman 30 Apr 21 - 04:58 AM
Steve Shaw 30 Apr 21 - 04:32 AM
The Sandman 30 Apr 21 - 03:47 AM
Tattie Bogle 29 Apr 21 - 06:28 PM
Jack Campin 29 Apr 21 - 11:00 AM
Donuel 28 Apr 21 - 07:18 PM
Rain Dog 28 Apr 21 - 03:43 AM
Mrrzy 27 Apr 21 - 02:21 PM
Stilly River Sage 25 Apr 21 - 12:15 PM
Stilly River Sage 25 Apr 21 - 12:12 PM
Stilly River Sage 25 Apr 21 - 12:06 PM
Stilly River Sage 25 Apr 21 - 10:52 AM
Stilly River Sage 23 Apr 21 - 11:48 AM
Donuel 22 Apr 21 - 04:32 PM
Donuel 22 Apr 21 - 04:27 PM
Stilly River Sage 21 Apr 21 - 02:37 PM
Stilly River Sage 21 Apr 21 - 02:33 PM
keberoxu 20 Apr 21 - 06:34 PM
Donuel 19 Apr 21 - 04:50 PM
Stilly River Sage 19 Apr 21 - 01:17 PM
Rain Dog 13 Apr 21 - 01:19 PM
Bonzo3legs 13 Apr 21 - 01:14 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Apr 21 - 06:21 PM
Rain Dog 12 Apr 21 - 02:01 AM
Stilly River Sage 12 Apr 21 - 01:42 AM
Mrrzy 12 Apr 21 - 01:24 AM
robomatic 12 Apr 21 - 12:33 AM
Steve Shaw 11 Apr 21 - 08:32 PM
Doug Chadwick 11 Apr 21 - 07:05 PM
Steve Shaw 11 Apr 21 - 05:31 PM
Mrrzy 11 Apr 21 - 02:26 PM
Stilly River Sage 11 Apr 21 - 10:12 AM
Steve Shaw 11 Apr 21 - 09:08 AM
Mrrzy 11 Apr 21 - 08:41 AM
Steve Shaw 11 Apr 21 - 08:25 AM
Nigel Parsons 11 Apr 21 - 08:07 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 May 21 - 12:25 PM

I have not seen anyone challenged by a member of the public for not wearing a mask. Mask wearing in shops is fairly good on the whole here.

and


There is never justification for haranguing non-mask wearers. The reasons for some people being exempt are never visibly apparent.


I have to disagree with both of these remarks. People do challenge non-mask wearers here, because at this point it is obvious to most people that we're doing the heavy lifting in trying to prevent this pandemic from spreading and these freeloaders are the ones who are going to keep it going for a lot longer than needed.

If you can't wear a mask, then don't go out. Take care of business out-of-doors or have things delivered. Don't wander around stores and other places where your presence is entirely discretionary with no mask. The lion's share of unmasked people are scofflaws and Trump supporters who think their freedom to spread disease outweighs the good of the society at large.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 May 21 - 09:23 AM

Shake it all about, then snort it [grin]?


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jack Campin
Date: 01 May 21 - 05:28 AM

It's going to be impossible to contain the new Indian variants to India - it's just too big and too linked with the rest of the world.

What the rest of the world can do is not fuck their response up as badly as India has done. The American South looks like flushing itself down the same toilet.

The UK coped with the smoking ban fairly well - hardly anyone flouts it and the change was quick. Mask refusal is much more dangerous and happens much more often. And the tobacco industry didn't put up that much of a fight. The implication is that whoever's backing mask refusal, as a collective thing, is a more effective and better organized enemy of the mass of humanity than even Big Tobacco was.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 May 21 - 04:35 AM

mrzy, do you know if you spoke to me loudly and politely. i might do the hokey cokey


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Allan Conn
Date: 01 May 21 - 03:55 AM

There is breaking the rules and breaking the rules - but all through the pandemic there has also been a number of rabid don't do this or don't do that type people.

One local FB user during the first lock down vented from her house in St Boswells that "it is like Piccadilly Circus out there......counted over 30 people go past in the last half an hour.............and some have backpacks so obviously going further than allowed"

I thought the obsession of sitting at your window counting how many people were going past was weird in the extreme. And 30 people in 30 minutes is hardly Piccadilly Circus anyway. And backpacks are good for putting things like coats and cameras etc in even if not walking that far. You were allowed to go for an hour's walk even at the height of the first lock down here so no-one was necessarily breaking any rule. Yet this person thought everyone should stay in their homes like prisoners just because she was.

Then there was another who went to Lidl but saw the big queue and decided to not bother - so she went home and vented about all the sefish b******* going shopping for their drink and BBQ food etc. Yet they were only doing exactly the same as she intended doing. Shop!

There has been some strange behaviour though on the most part folks have been great.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog
Date: 01 May 21 - 03:49 AM

Australia has just made it illegal for its citizens to return home from India

Australia bans its own citizens from returning home


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 May 21 - 03:13 AM

jack campin do you do this whilst goose stepping. aggression meets with agression. jack campin mussolin would love you


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Apr 21 - 07:14 PM

I am definitely no mask advocate. My opinion is that they don't do any good and that they are used as a blunt instrument of control. However, we live in vulnerable times and I think that putting on a mask doesn't hurt. We bite the bullet.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 Apr 21 - 06:27 PM

Me too, Jack Campin. I ask if they fotgot it. Loudly but politely.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jack Campin
Date: 30 Apr 21 - 03:17 PM

I usually challenge people who won't wear masks in public. They are putting other people's lives at risk and I have NO obligation to be in any way polite to them. I want them out of the door, and fuck their "exemptions".


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Apr 21 - 11:54 AM

rain dog it is not fascist this or that, but very specific behaviour during the pandemic[haranguing non mask wearers whilst forgeting about social distancing[ which i have seen ] is totalitarian in nature] your bizarre remark about the wonderful Underpaid nhs staff is nor relevant. the sort ofbehaviour i have described is reminscentto me of the people who as soon as they put on a uniform seem to become power crazy. the vast majority of people are getting vaccinated . the astra zeneca vaccine delay in the eu was not a fault of the eu ,it was the fault of the manufacturers not producing as many or supplying as many to the eu as promised ..they are now being sued.
now that vaccination is progressing it is time for governments and people to chill out a bit.
i too was in and e 10 days ag0 i had a small stroke the staff were pleasant and efficient.
your attempts at humour are not very funny


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Apr 21 - 09:02 AM

as i have said i am taking the vaccinations,i do not know whether gates is behind this but i doubt it. i find it an intersting psychological comment when people have to anno8nce on facebook they are blocking anyone who disgrees with their view on covi 19, it looks to me they are trying to show power, why announce it


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog
Date: 30 Apr 21 - 05:46 AM

Fascist this and fascist that.

I have not seen anyone challenged by a member of the public for not wearing a mask. Mask wearing in shops is fairly good on the whole here.

While I do not condone anyone for being verbally aggressive about non mask wearing, none of us know why they do it. They might have lost a relative to covid, lost their business because of covid or lost their job working for a fascist big business because of covid.

Now if you want to talk about fascist behaviour. I had 2 visits to a & e last month. Had a fascist security guy take my temperature, had to wait behind fascist lines on the ground, asked questions by another mask wearing fascist, told where to walk to and where to stand while waiting. Most of the staff were wearing fascist uniforms. And then they ended.up giving me two fascist prescriptions for stuff that made little to know difference.

Do have to say that the staff and patients were all pleasant apart from their fascist behaviour.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Apr 21 - 05:43 AM

There is never justification for haranguing non-mask wearers. The reasons for some people being exempt are never visibly apparent. I'm fairly deaf, and that doesn't show either. I'm thinking of wearing a big badge that says SPEAK UP. As for the vaccines, if you don't want them that's fine, though you could be misinformed. That also doesn't show up unless you crow about it telling everyone that Bill Gates wants to control us all, etc. If you do that kind of thing you deserve what you get, in my opinion.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Apr 21 - 04:58 AM

it is not as simple as that. i have seen people who do not weara masks attacked verbally in supermarkets by budding fascists who then forget about the two meter rule when they harangue the non mask wearer, really silly behaviour, if someone does not want or has a good reason for not wearing a mask give them distance,
we still do not know how effective masks are although they reduce the risk to some extent.if vaccination is effective we hopefully will not need to wear masks
while i do not think this has been planned it has been an unintentional experiment in controlling people dividing people and ruling. meanwhile the pharmacuetical c0mpanies have been profiting, small businesses have suffered but multi national capitalism gets stronger. we do not need over zealous fascists going around haranguing people the majority of people are getting vaccinated


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Apr 21 - 04:32 AM

Quite so, Dick, but blocking someone on Facebook is a choice in the same way as not taking the vaccine is a choice. Telling the world that you're not having the vaccine is also a choice, as is telling the world that you'll block a vaccine-refuser. Whilst it's a free country, I'd suggest that vaccine-refusers would be better served if they kept it to themselves. All too often, they go large with their prejudiced and ill-informed views, and the last thing we want, in my opinion, is for their vexatious assertions to be sowing doubt and fear. There's nothing tolerant about that.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Apr 21 - 03:47 AM

I would like to make a call for tolerance of others views on the pandemic.
i have noticed one mudcat member who is threatening to block any facebook user who has a different view to him on the pandemic.
i have had my first vacc ,but i respect those people who have decided for religous or other reasons not to be vaccinated that is their choice, they are a minority and should not be victimised. i do not want to live in a totalitarian society, . the establishment rules by division


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 29 Apr 21 - 06:28 PM

Periodontitis has been linked to Subacute Bacterial Endocarditis (not pericarditis) for well over 50 years - nothing new: anyone with mitral or aortic valve disease is given prophylactic antibiotics before any dental treatment, although our lecturers used to tell us that just brushing your teeth sends off a shower of bacteria into your bloodstream!


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Apr 21 - 11:00 AM

Arundhati Roy on the horror in India


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Apr 21 - 07:18 PM

Raindog there is a connection particularly with tooth and pericardial infections. (heart lining infections)


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog
Date: 28 Apr 21 - 03:43 AM

I believe that there has been previous research on a link between periodontitis and heart disease. Not sure that any firm link has been established.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Apr 21 - 02:21 PM

I read that on gum disease too, thanks.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Apr 21 - 12:15 PM

Gum disease linked to severe COVID-19 outcomes

The start of the story:

One of the more perplexing things about COVID-19 is its wide range of outcomes in people who get the disease. A new study from researchers at McGill University in Toronto, Canada, finds a link between gums with inflammation and infection and COVID-19 complications and deaths.

The study finds that people with periodontitis are 8.8 times more likely to die of COVID-19.

In addition, such individuals are 3.5 times more likely to require hospitalization for COVID-19 and 4.5 times more likely to require a ventilator.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Apr 21 - 12:12 PM

The video that plays at the beginning seems to be unrelated to the story.

Spanish man charged with infecting 22 people with COVID-19

MADRID -- A Spanish man with COVID-19 symptoms who coughed on work colleagues and told them “I’m going to give you all the coronavirus” has been charged with intentionally causing injury after allegedly infecting 22 people.

Spanish police said their investigation began after a COVID-19 outbreak at the company where the 40-year-old man worked on the Mediterranean island of Mallorca.

Days before the outbreak, the man showed COVID-19 symptoms but refused his colleagues’ suggestions to go home and self-isolate, police said in a statement.

After work, and showing no improvement, he went for a PCR test before visiting a gym and returning to work the next day. Though his superiors told him to go home after he allegedly had showed a temperature of 40 degrees Celsius, the man refused.

He walked around his workplace, lowering his face mask and coughing on people, saying “I’m going to infect you all with the coronavirus,” according to police.

At the end of the day, his PCR test came back positive. His colleagues were then tested, with five returning positive results. They in turn infected family members, including three infants, police said. At the gym the man visited, three people tested positive and also infected family members.

None of those infected required hospitalization, police said.

A judge charged the man, who was not identified by police, and released him on Saturday evening to await trial, Spain’s Europa Press news agency reported.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Apr 21 - 12:06 PM

From the New York Times Millions Are Skipping Their Second Doses of Covid Vaccines

Millions of Americans are not getting the second doses of their Covid-19 vaccines, and their ranks are growing.

More than five million people, or nearly 8 percent of those who got a first shot of the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines, have missed their second doses, according to the most recent data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. That is more than double the rate among people who got inoculated in the first several weeks of the nationwide vaccine campaign.

Even as the country wrestles with the problem of millions of people who are wary about getting vaccinated at all, local health authorities are confronting an emerging challenge of ensuring that those who do get inoculated are doing so fully.

The reasons vary for why people are missing their second shots. In interviews, some said they feared the side effects, which can include flulike symptoms. Others said they felt that they were sufficiently protected with a single shot.

Those attitudes were expected, but another hurdle has been surprisingly prevalent. A number of vaccine providers have canceled second-dose appointments because they ran out of supply or didn’t have the right brand in stock.


Troubling news.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Apr 21 - 10:52 AM

India has a prime minister equally as foolish as Trump was when he was running things here. Modi allowed a lot of huge religious events to go forward earlier this spring and now, to absolutely no one's surprise, the virus has exploded into the population. The cremation sites are running non-stop, making me wonder if the air quality and deforestation that are now a part of this epidemic will make people even more miserable (bad air and floods). Enlarged photo.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Apr 21 - 11:48 AM

Two weeks ago I got my first haircut in 14 months, and I left behind about 10 inches of hair because I had to cut to shoulder length after wearing it longer for a while.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Apr 21 - 04:32 PM

India is facing some of the worst crimes of pandemic including rampant stealing of vaccine and medications while infection rates climb.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Apr 21 - 04:27 PM

! Pregnant women are advised to use Pfizer vaccine.
2 Long haulers note slight improvement after vaccination regarding brain fog.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Apr 21 - 02:37 PM

And while I'm at it, there is this:

Amy Klobuchar takes aim at 12 vaccine misinformation influencers

People like "Dr." Mercola who used to simply offer alternative information about medical stuff are now batshit crazy lunatic fringe purveyors of anti-science trash, with the COVID vaccines in their mangled messages.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Apr 21 - 02:33 PM

If it is new, it is news. If it is an update, then it is an update.

This morning the New York Times published Nation Faces ‘Hand-to-Hand Combat’ to Get Reluctant Americans Vaccinated

Half of American adults have received at least one shot of the coronavirus vaccine. Now comes the hard part: persuading the other half to get it.

State health officials, business leaders, policymakers and politicians are struggling to figure out how to tailor their messages, and their tactics, to persuade not only the vaccine hesitant but also the indifferent. The work will be labor intensive, much of it may fall on private employers — but the risk is clear: if it takes too long to reach “herd immunity” — the point at which the spread of the virus slows — worrisome new variants could emerge that evade the vaccine.

“If you think of this as a war,” said Michael Carney, the senior vice president for emerging issues at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce Foundation, “we’re about to enter the hand-to-hand combat phase of the war.”


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: keberoxu
Date: 20 Apr 21 - 06:34 PM

New news it is not, just an update. (sue me)

Last year, during the lockdown,
the Boston Marathon was postponed.
A great fuss, as it was unprecedented.

This year, as well, we have Patriot's Day week in April,
with ... no traditionally scheduled Boston Marathon.

This year's Boston Marathon will instead happen in October,
and the event is being publicized, with registration and all,
over the radio stations already.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Apr 21 - 04:50 PM

A new test for hospitals to determine immune responsess of the newly infected and predict severity. It is fom Marylnd.

Drivers here are goin faster on emptier roads


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Apr 21 - 01:17 PM

News to do with the COVID era, but it's an adjacent story. Traffic deaths rose in 2020 despite the lower traffic.

The Emptier Roads of 2020 Were More Lethal

Preliminary data from the National Safety Council shows a 24% spike in the U.S. traffic fatality rate, with drivers traveling faster and more recklessly with fewer people on the road.

When the pandemic swept across the U.S. in March 2020, vehicle traffic was largely stilled in major cities. Hazy skies over Los Angeles and New York City cleared up with the loss of tailpipe pollution. Quieter residential streets made room for pop-up walking and cycling corridors. As millions of commuters stayed home for months, safety researchers hoped that less overall driving throughout 2020 would also mean fewer U.S. traffic fatalities — a faint silver lining amid a much-larger Covid-19 death toll.

But that last benefit did not come to pass. “We saw the opposite,” said Maureen Vogel, the communications director at the National Safety Council, an advocacy group. As many as 42,060 people died on U.S. roads last year, or 8% more than in 2019, according to preliminary data released by the NSC. Combined with a 13% decline in vehicle-miles traveled, the rate of death on American roads jumped 24% year over year — the sharpest spike the NSC has measured since 1924, Vogel said.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog
Date: 13 Apr 21 - 01:19 PM

"Stay in, it really is that simple!"

If only it was. How would your dog go for a run?


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 13 Apr 21 - 01:14 PM

Just ponder on this for a minute...

2020 - We just have to stay in for a couple of months.
WW II - You have to leave your loved ones and might never see them again.

2020 - But my kids need some fresh air so we're all going to the park.
WW II - Your kids have to be evacuated and live with random good samaritans for their safety.

2020 - I can only Facetime my family and friends I can't see them.
WW II - I have written letters, I'm hoping they're received and I get a response this year.

2020 - I am trying to order my food shop online, it's taking ages to get to me I need, alcohol, and all the other foods I'm craving.
WW II - Are you coming to queue-up in the line for our rations-potato soup every day of the week?

2020 - The government hasn't said we can't go out, they just said we can but only once to exercise so I'm going to go meet my friends and do what I want.
WW II - I'm not going out just in case a bomb drops so I will stay in listening to some music quietly because the air raid siren might go off.

2020 - Netflix needs to sort the streaming out I can't even watch a series without it crashing.
WW II - We are sitting in the dark around a candle playing cards keeping as much light in as possible so the warplanes don't see us from above.

2020 - Every man for themselves, so I'm going to stock-pile as much as I can because we are more important than anyone else, never mind the elderly that gave us this freedom.
WW II - I'm so grateful for this community, everyone is helping each other out when and where we can, we must stay strong.

This is the perspective that we should have, we don't know how LUCKY we have it and people still aren't listening.

Stay in, it really is that simple!


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 21 - 06:21 PM

So today in England we've had the Great Release. Shops, gyms and swimming pools reopened. Pub gardens heaving. Massive queues from 7 AM outside Primark (for Christ's sake). Shopping centres are absolutely stuffed with people. Traffic jams on the M5 coming down to Cornwall. My town, Bude, almost gridlocked with holidaymakers. We have vox pops on the telly bleating about how much we all need all this, and now. Need to get in your bloody motor home and come to Bude. Can't live another day unless you can come to your chalet in a holiday park in Newquay (which has hundreds of other chalets, all identical with yours), or queue outside Primark because you can't wait one more day to replace your Bangladeshi slave-labour knickers. Celebratory clips of people having their hair cut or their faux-blondness renewed at long last. I don't get that. I look like the wild man of Borneo right now and I'm sporting the look as a badge of honour. We've had a national orgasm today, and it's worrying.

There should never have been this lockdown. The government should have put all its energy into creating a national ethos of responsibility, by giving information, advice and by constant urging. Instead, the country thinks today that the thing is all over. That we're in the sunlit uplands.

Well we are not. The vaccine has not yet been rolled out to under-50s. In countries still struggling with the virus, it's the under-50s who are now being hard hit. But we've leaned hard compressing the spring but have suddenly let it go. We are in for another wave. Doomed. Watch this space...


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog
Date: 12 Apr 21 - 02:01 AM

Concern in China about expressing concern about the efficacy of Chinese vaccines

Efficacy of Chinese Vaccines


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Apr 21 - 01:42 AM

So have we exhausted new COVID news and are now reduced to bickering?


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Apr 21 - 01:24 AM

Oh, yes, Steve Shaw, I live for you. I especially like that sharp left dancing turn you take whenever you realize you have been shown -again- to be wrong about something.

Sorry, the rest of y'all. Want to talk about pairs of X chromosomes?


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Apr 21 - 12:33 AM

Just when the shorelines and roadside bushes are filling up with castoff single use masks, come Will i am
and the new powered fans bluetooth noise cancelling high tech mask.

Rejoice, we are truly (some kind of) saved. If only so many masks were now causing an environmental hazard along with the thousands of supermarket bags that we once again get for free in the checkout because we are not expected to shop with reusable bags during Covid.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Apr 21 - 08:32 PM

Couldn't agree more, Doug. I no longer have an actual arse, as it was bored off me umpteen posts ago. But do bear with me. I'm being charitable to Mrrzy here, as well as Nigel, tangentially, by giving them something to live for. This lockdown malarkey is tough, and one does have to indulge the less fortunate...


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 11 Apr 21 - 07:05 PM

From: Mrrzy
Right, Steve Shaw. And I countered with ......

From: Steve Shaw
*sigh.* This is what you said: ........

From: Mrrzy
Oh, ok, you weren't wrong, you just didn't mean .......

From: Steve Shaw
I said precisely what I meant. ......

From: Steve Shaw
........... a phrase in quotes that clearly did not come from me, ...........

From: Mrrzy
Yes, it did. I copied it ..........

From: Steve Shaw
I have NEVER said .....




So, there really is something in this world more boring than reading about COVID-19.


DC


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Apr 21 - 05:31 PM

Well far be it from me to end this fun, but here's precisely what you said:

"If *any* lockdowns had actually been "more severe than necessary" you would no longer have covid where the lockdown was. But you do, so they obviously weren't, duh."

I did not say that, despite your quote marks. Anyone can check that (including you). You ascribed a meaning to my statement that I patently did not intend (it really isn't hard, this stuff..)

If you truly think that "The lockdowns we have had were massively more severe and lengthy than they needed to have been purely because of government incompetence" means the same thing as "more severe than necessary" then your level of literacy is, disappointingly, somewhat lower than what I've credited you with. Eat more low GI carbs is my advice. :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Apr 21 - 02:26 PM

Yes, I did. Here is the whole paragraph with header from 07, not 17, April, copied part in bold, emphasis mine:

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 07 Apr 21 - 06:06 AM

Let's not talk past each other here. The lockdowns we have had were massively more severe and lengthy than they needed to have been purely because of government incompetence and refusal to listen to the science. Given prompt (key word, Boris) and, OK, maybe short, sharp action, as we saw in some other countries, this country could have been running at near-normal for most of the last twelve months. I think everyone would have understood that, and subsequent behaviour, informed by proper advice and accurate information, would have been at least as good as in any lockdown or ridiculous and ineffective tier system. Instead, we are heading for a crippling recession, austerity like we've never seen, mass unemployment, increasing child poverty and physical and mental ill-health on a scale that could even rival or dwarf the pandemic. As for "overwhelming the NHS", you presumably mean the NHS that these Tories have run into the ground for a decade? That one? The same Tories who did nothing when they were starkly warned, four years ago, that the NHS in its then state was in no position to handle a major epidemic?


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Apr 21 - 10:12 AM

It has been fourteen months now, but the FDA is finally recommending to health care providers that they can now cease reusing disposable respirators:

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is recommending health care personnel and facilities transition away from crisis capacity conservation strategies, such as decontaminating or bioburden reducing disposable respirators for reuse. Based on the increased domestic supply of new respirators approved by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) currently available to facilitate this transition, the FDA and CDC believe there is adequate supply of respirators to transition away from use of decontamination and bioburden reduction systems.

The FDA recommends that health care personnel and facilities:

Limit decontamination of disposable respirators. Decontaminated respirators and respirators that have undergone bioburden reduction should be used only when there are insufficient supplies of new FFRs or if you are unable to obtain any new respirators.
Transition away from a crisis capacity strategy for respirators, such as decontamination of N95 and other FFRs.
Increase inventory of available NIOSH-approved respirators—including N95s and other FFRs, elastomeric respirators, including new elastomeric respirators without an exhalation valve that can be used in the operating room, and powered air-purifying respirators (PAPRs). Even if you are unable to obtain the respirator model that you would prefer, the FDA recommends that you obtain and use a new respirator before decontaminating or bioburden reducing a preferred disposable respirator.


This begs the question why were all of these devices disposed of after one use if they can be satisfactorily decontaminated? Think of the materials that go into these devices and the cost of purchasing new. If they made them a little more sturdily, could they routinely be decontaminated as a regular matter of practice? How does the cost new compare to the cost of decontamination protocols? It used to be that everything was cleaned and sterilized (in the 1970s I worked at Ellis Island, the old immigrant processing station. In the long-closed hospital there was an early 20th century room-sized autoclave with doors that sealed like the doors in a submarine).

Of course technology won't all return to that of 100 years ago, but aside from the bloated overhead of management staffing in health care institutions, the cost of equipment and materials is also inflated. It is what the market, up till now, would bear.

I suppose the answer comes down to human nature - will the humans given the job of decontamination be given the proper instructions and adequate pay incentive to do the job thoroughly and correctly 100% of the time? We'd waste a lot less material if this were the case.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Apr 21 - 09:08 AM

I have NEVER said that lockdowns "had actually been 'more severe than necessary,'" never never never, not in that or any other post. That's all you, even though you put it in quotes as though it was me. So you did not "copy" it from any post of mine.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Apr 21 - 08:41 AM

Yes, it did. I copied it from your post of 17 April 06.06 am.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Apr 21 - 08:25 AM

Implicit in my comments on this is that I'm trying to make it clear that what I was supposed to have said I didn't actually say, as should have been apparent straight away when Mrrzy put a phrase in quotes that clearly did not come from me, despite the implication that it did.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Apr 21 - 08:07 AM

Steve:
Maybe you're 'getting there'.
You're getting there, Nigel, but what I really meant has still evaded you. "Longer than should have been needed" would have cut it.
Implicit in your above comment is that you did not make your meaning clear previously, and are only clarifying it after that lack of clarity has been pointed out to you.


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