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BS: 2020 national election, USA

keberoxu 08 Feb 20 - 12:42 PM
Nigel Parsons 08 Feb 20 - 03:24 PM
gillymor 08 Feb 20 - 04:16 PM
Donuel 08 Feb 20 - 04:28 PM
gillymor 08 Feb 20 - 04:38 PM
Joe Offer 08 Feb 20 - 10:32 PM
Donuel 09 Feb 20 - 04:17 PM
Donuel 09 Feb 20 - 07:20 PM
Bill D 09 Feb 20 - 08:43 PM
keberoxu 10 Feb 20 - 11:40 AM
Backwoodsman 10 Feb 20 - 12:21 PM
Bill D 10 Feb 20 - 02:30 PM
Mr Red 10 Feb 20 - 03:00 PM
Backwoodsman 10 Feb 20 - 03:22 PM
gillymor 10 Feb 20 - 03:28 PM
Donuel 10 Feb 20 - 04:52 PM
gillymor 10 Feb 20 - 05:53 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Feb 20 - 07:03 PM
Iains 11 Feb 20 - 03:32 AM
gillymor 11 Feb 20 - 05:26 AM
Donuel 11 Feb 20 - 06:39 AM
Mr Red 11 Feb 20 - 07:55 AM
gillymor 11 Feb 20 - 08:09 AM
Donuel 11 Feb 20 - 08:10 AM
gillymor 11 Feb 20 - 08:19 AM
Donuel 11 Feb 20 - 11:36 AM
keberoxu 11 Feb 20 - 03:39 PM
Donuel 11 Feb 20 - 03:58 PM
Donuel 12 Feb 20 - 06:15 AM
Iains 12 Feb 20 - 07:59 AM
Donuel 13 Feb 20 - 07:12 AM
Stilly River Sage 13 Feb 20 - 01:52 PM
Donuel 13 Feb 20 - 03:17 PM
Mr Red 14 Feb 20 - 03:26 AM
Donuel 14 Feb 20 - 11:52 AM
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mg 20 Feb 20 - 06:57 PM
Steve Shaw 20 Feb 20 - 07:16 PM
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Stilly River Sage 21 Feb 20 - 11:00 AM
keberoxu 22 Feb 20 - 05:54 PM
Neil D 23 Feb 20 - 05:44 AM
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Iains 05 Mar 20 - 03:24 AM
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keberoxu 05 Mar 20 - 11:31 AM
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keberoxu 09 Mar 20 - 08:59 AM
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Mr Red 17 Mar 20 - 05:15 AM
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robomatic 06 Jul 20 - 10:49 PM
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robomatic 11 Aug 20 - 07:04 PM
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gillymor 12 Aug 20 - 07:21 AM
keberoxu 14 Aug 20 - 12:29 PM
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Mrrzy 16 Aug 20 - 09:44 PM
keberoxu 18 Aug 20 - 11:21 AM
Stilly River Sage 20 Aug 20 - 12:14 AM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Aug 20 - 11:58 AM
Mrrzy 20 Aug 20 - 01:21 PM
Donuel 22 Aug 20 - 09:52 AM
Stilly River Sage 23 Aug 20 - 09:48 AM
McGrath of Harlow 23 Aug 20 - 02:16 PM
keberoxu 23 Aug 20 - 06:24 PM
Mrrzy 24 Aug 20 - 08:33 AM
Donuel 25 Aug 20 - 06:37 AM
Stilly River Sage 25 Aug 20 - 10:03 AM
Donuel 25 Aug 20 - 11:14 AM
Donuel 25 Aug 20 - 03:35 PM
Donuel 26 Aug 20 - 05:49 AM
McGrath of Harlow 26 Aug 20 - 09:32 AM
Mrrzy 26 Aug 20 - 05:09 PM
robomatic 26 Aug 20 - 11:20 PM
Donuel 27 Aug 20 - 05:10 AM
Mrrzy 28 Aug 20 - 03:05 PM
McGrath of Harlow 28 Aug 20 - 08:53 PM
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McGrath of Harlow 29 Aug 20 - 09:15 PM
Stilly River Sage 29 Aug 20 - 11:28 PM
Donuel 31 Aug 20 - 07:10 AM
SPB-Cooperator 31 Aug 20 - 08:06 AM
Mrrzy 31 Aug 20 - 09:46 AM
SPB-Cooperator 31 Aug 20 - 10:44 AM
Stilly River Sage 31 Aug 20 - 11:02 AM
Backwoodsman 31 Aug 20 - 01:21 PM
Donuel 31 Aug 20 - 05:14 PM
McGrath of Harlow 31 Aug 20 - 06:57 PM
McGrath of Harlow 31 Aug 20 - 09:59 PM
Backwoodsman 01 Sep 20 - 01:40 AM
Donuel 01 Sep 20 - 06:02 AM
SPB-Cooperator 01 Sep 20 - 06:39 AM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Sep 20 - 06:46 AM
Donuel 01 Sep 20 - 06:51 AM
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keberoxu 01 Sep 20 - 06:13 PM
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Subject: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Feb 20 - 12:42 PM

Do we have such a thread already?
Because I used the thread filter search (thanks, Joe Offer)
and I could not locate one.


Me, I believe that Bernie Sanders is in trouble.
Here's a January 2020 article from Vermont (dissidents?)


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Feb 20 - 03:24 PM

Not my country, But I think Trump is in with a good chance:
You can fool all of the people some of the time, and you can fool some of the people all of the time . . ."


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Feb 20 - 04:16 PM

A good chance to be what? Something other than a racist, amoral, incompetent asshole. No way.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Feb 20 - 04:28 PM

I'd like to see Pete play against Biden and Trump in a special History game of Jeopardy.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Feb 20 - 04:38 PM

What are the least amount of points you can score on Jeopardy? No doubt T@#%p would bottom out in the negative unless they had a Potent Porno Stars category.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Feb 20 - 10:32 PM

Gee, keberoxu, do you think we could narrow the scope and re-title this thread "2020 US primary elections"? The General Election isn't until November. I hate to see this be the one-and-only thread on US elections. That leads to long and confusing threads, and the long threads tend to be battlefields. Better to narrow the scope. Contact SRS if you want to change the thread name.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Feb 20 - 04:17 PM

Its fine to have a wide focus on 2020 elections.
This way we can take into account;
The base of haters, low information haters and swing haters,
as well as Schiff progressives, AOC progressives and the last FDR democrat.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Feb 20 - 07:20 PM

Joe, I know you think I am a bit spooky/kooky. I accept that.
It is because I believe a mystery is the very place to begin to look for answers. I sometimes carry on in poetry and leave rhetoric for others. The refreshing poetry in the world is song. On screens or paper it is dry like powdered chocolate. One needs another ingredient, like an open mind

Vote with a kind mind
2020


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Feb 20 - 08:43 PM

My take on 2020.... too many candidates chasing the money and trying to look different while still attracting a wide base of the party.

Long way to go yet, and many states yet to be heard from. What I fear is that all the media speculation that "X" is in trouble or that "Y" is surging before a single actual primary is actually driving X and Y in those directions.... like lab techs whose very attempts to study a microbe affects its growth...positively or negatively.

Did you ever go to a buffet and see far too many choices?


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 10 Feb 20 - 11:40 AM

Well, here comes the primary for
the state of New Hampshire, this week.

Joe Offer has a point:
this election process may be too long,
with too many twists and turns, for a single forum thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Feb 20 - 12:21 PM

If UK politics are confined to one thread, why should the US be any different? It’s a foregone conclusion anyway - the orange pussy-grabber will walk straight back in.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Feb 20 - 02:30 PM

No.. not a foregone conclusion. He was beaten by 3 million votes last time, and just a few changes in a few states can fix that.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 Feb 20 - 03:00 PM

Trump is a maverick. And mavericks can surprise. At this stage, through the filter of the Atlantic ocean, we hear Trump v "A or B or C et al".

A divided opposition is a weak opposition.

Be afraid, America, be very afraid.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Feb 20 - 03:22 PM

"No.. not a foregone conclusion. He was beaten by 3 million votes last time, and just a few changes in a few states can fix that."

I hope you're right Bill. But I'm confident that his Diversion-Politics and your stupid Electoral College will trump* 'a few changes in a few states'.

*See what I did there? ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 10 Feb 20 - 03:28 PM

Holy shit, "infighting" and a "divided opposition" are what you get during primary season.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Feb 20 - 04:52 PM

My bumper: Vote while you still can


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 10 Feb 20 - 05:53 PM

I'm tempted to get one of these:

Click


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Feb 20 - 07:03 PM

But you're getting divisions and the appearance of incompetence. Cf Iowa. Exactly the reasons Labour got trounced in our election. Make no mistake. Any hint of splits in leftie parties will militate against you, big time. You have all the media against you. As I cynically said to Mrs Steve yesterday, put six lefties in a room and you'll instantly get an ugly 3-3 split...


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Iains
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 03:32 AM

With Cruella de vil as speaker, and plentiful infighting, the democrats will be on the rocks in November and triumphant Trump will sail serenely on. Barring a miracle of epic proportions the Democrats are scuppered.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 05:26 AM

You've fucked your own country up beyond all recognition, maybe you should give up political prognostication for whittling or some other useful hobby.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 06:39 AM

keb nuthin rong with predickshuns bein rong
member US Iran war bgins? - WRONG
I'm glad I was wrong
I am glad you are wrong.
Bernie will win tonight.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mr Red
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 07:55 AM

"infighting" and a "divided opposition" are what you get during primary season.

The problemo is that we Brits, at this distance, can't see a divided Republican caucus. And we naturally draw analogies with the UK like:
1) a winning leader with questionable morals who just wants to be leader. All else is expediency thereto.
2) isolationist/xenophbic policies
3) vituperative electioneering
4) divided opposition

Albeit, we Brits are more reserved on that scale, but we are more shocked by the level, maybe.

We have a stake in the poutcome (finger trouble but I'll take the pun) after all, NOW!


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 08:09 AM

Welcome to primary season. The incumbent doesn't often get a serious challenge and the opposition tears into each other.
Twitler won his nomination with the nastiest campaign since 1800.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 08:10 AM

No matter the poutcome, Trump will say it is rigged like he did last time.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 08:19 AM

if "poutcome" was intentional, lol


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 11:36 AM

His revenge behavior is a poutcome.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 03:39 PM

Here we go with the first
of the state primaries.
(At least it isn't ice-storming.)


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 03:58 PM

After a terrible week for Democrats it looks like Bernie then Pete and then a surprise.

Buck up, so many of the Trump voters last time that were just looking for change are going to get change from Democrats.
Last time they wanted anything except 26+ years of a Clinton or a Bush.
So many are hurt by tariffs now, they need an intelligent President again.

Americans who need change this time will be smarter than ahem , Europeans


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Feb 20 - 06:15 AM

yesterday
After a terrible week for Democrats it looks like Bernie then Pete and then a surprise.

today
how about that, I was right.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Iains
Date: 12 Feb 20 - 07:59 AM

You've fucked your own country up beyond all recognition, maybe you should give up political prognostication for whittling or some other useful hobby.
A matter of opinion I would suggest!
and my prognostications this side of the pond were spot on. I disd not even have to resort to casting chhlorinated chicken bones,I merely studied the polls.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 07:12 AM

I Have. How did you know?
It only takes silence
to let evil men rule.
True to tell
You are full of stool
Iains you have lost your edge,
you have lost your poison.
But you still smell.

Dems may not have someone with a plurality leading to a brokered convention.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 01:52 PM

David Brooks is a holdout from the olden days, when there were moderate and even occasionally liberal Republicans. He is probably be that last man standing from that camp.

His essay from 2016 is even more relevant today. I'll paste it in here because it's relatively short and because people often hit a paywall when trying to read the New York Times.

The Governing Cancer of Our Time

We live in a big, diverse society. There are essentially two ways to maintain order and get things done in such a society — politics or some form of dictatorship. Either through compromise or brute force. Our founding fathers chose politics.

Politics is an activity in which you recognize the simultaneous existence of different groups, interests and opinions. You try to find some way to balance or reconcile or compromise those interests, or at least a majority of them. You follow a set of rules, enshrined in a constitution or in custom, to help you reach these compromises in a way everybody considers legitimate.

The downside of politics is that people never really get everything they want. It’s messy, limited and no issue is ever really settled. Politics is a muddled activity in which people have to recognize restraints and settle for less than they want. Disappointment is normal.

But that’s sort of the beauty of politics, too. It involves an endless conversation in which we learn about other people and see things from their vantage point and try to balance their needs against our own. Plus, it’s better than the alternative: rule by some authoritarian tyrant who tries to govern by clobbering everyone in his way.

As Bernard Crick wrote in his book, “In Defence of Politics,” “Politics is a way of ruling divided societies without undue violence.”

Over the past generation we have seen the rise of a group of people who are against politics. These groups — best exemplified by the Tea Party but not exclusive to the right — want to elect people who have no political experience. They want “outsiders.” They delegitimize compromise and deal-making. They’re willing to trample the customs and rules that give legitimacy to legislative decision-making if it helps them gain power.

Ultimately, they don’t recognize other people. They suffer from a form of political narcissism, in which they don’t accept the legitimacy of other interests and opinions. They don’t recognize restraints. They want total victories for themselves and their doctrine.

This antipolitics tendency has had a wretched effect on our democracy. It has led to a series of overlapping downward spirals:

The antipolitics people elect legislators who have no political skills or experience. That incompetence leads to dysfunctional government, which leads to more disgust with government, which leads to a demand for even more outsiders.

The antipolitics people don’t accept that politics is a limited activity. They make soaring promises and raise ridiculous expectations. When those expectations are not met, voters grow cynical and, disgusted, turn even further in the direction of antipolitics.

The antipolitics people refuse compromise and so block the legislative process. The absence of accomplishment destroys public trust. The decline in trust makes deal-making harder.

We’re now at a point where the Senate says it won’t even hold hearings on a presidential Supreme Court nominee, in clear defiance of custom and the Constitution. We’re now at a point in which politicians live in fear if they try to compromise and legislate. We’re now at a point in which normal political conversation has broken down. People feel unheard, which makes them shout even louder, which further destroys conversation.

And in walks Donald Trump. People say that Trump is an unconventional candidate and that he represents a break from politics as usual. That’s not true. Trump is the culmination of the trends we have been seeing for the last 30 years: the desire for outsiders; the bashing style of rhetoric that makes conversation impossible; the decline of coherent political parties; the declining importance of policy; the tendency to fight cultural battles and identity wars through political means.

Trump represents the path the founders rejected. There is a hint of violence undergirding his campaign. There is always a whiff, and sometimes more than a whiff, of “I’d like to punch him in the face.”

I printed out a Times list of the insults Trump has hurled on Twitter. The list took up 33 pages. Trump’s style is bashing and pummeling. Everyone who opposes or disagrees with him is an idiot, a moron or a loser. The implied promise of his campaign is that he will come to Washington and bully his way through.

Trump’s supporters aren’t looking for a political process to address their needs. They are looking for a superhero. As the political scientist Matthew MacWilliams found, the one trait that best predicts whether you’re a Trump supporter is how high you score on tests that measure authoritarianism.

This isn’t just an American phenomenon. Politics is in retreat and authoritarianism is on the rise worldwide. The answer to Trump is politics. It’s acknowledging other people exist. It’s taking pleasure in that difference and hammering out workable arrangements. As Harold Laski put it, “We shall make the basis of our state consent to disagreement. Therein shall we ensure its deepest harmony.”


Here is the link to the Twitter list of insults and here is the link to the Matthew MacWilliams piece he cites. The In Defence of Politics page may not load; I got a "very busy" message from the site when I tried it.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 03:17 PM

Is this your PHD proposal?


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 03:26 AM

This isn’t just an American phenomenon.

We see it around the world. The problem is that it is currently being seen in erstwhile stable** democracies.

Al Qaeda certainly started something, or burst a bubble that was festering.

**can't think of a more appropriate word


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 11:52 AM

I could not disagree more. But then we are free to disagree aren't we.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 01:17 PM

If a slaughterhouse owner wants to be elected president, all he has to do is convince enough beef cattle that dairy cattle are the source of all their problems.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 08:49 PM

Friends, catters and countrymen, lend me your eyes.
I come to speak of Trump, not to praise him.
The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interred with their bones;
So let it be with Trump. The noble Schiff
Hath told you Trump abused power:
If it were so, it was a grievous fault,
And grievously Trump was impeached for it.
Here, under leadership of Schiff and the rest–
For Schiff is an honourable man;
So are they all, all honourable men–
I come to speak of quid pro quo abuse.
Yes he was guilty and seldom faithful to the Constitution:
But Schiff says he abused power;
And Schiff is an honourable man.
Trump hath brought many captives to cages
Whose ransoms did the general coffers fill:
Did this in Trump seem abusive?
When that the poor have cried, Trump cared less:
Abuse should be made of sterner stuff:
Yet Pelosi says he was abusive and vengeful;
And Pelosi is an honourable woman.
You all did see that in the Congress
But here I am to speak what I do know.
Many do love him , without cause.
O judgment! thou art aquited by your cohorts,
And men have lost their reason. Bear with me;
The constitution technically allows him to abuse power.
Only you the people can give the final word and judgment.

Conservative think tanks have stratagized legalities
You have the power of realities.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 12:04 PM

What if Mike Bloomberg chose Hillary Clinton as his running mate?


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 17 Feb 20 - 08:41 PM

Wisconsin is Joe Offer's native state, yes?
Tuesday 18 February is the state primary for Wisconsin
if I read right.

and, my gosh,
Massachusetts where I live now
is having two separate primaries, I know not why:
a separate primary election
just for US President is
the first Tuesday in March -- that's coming up mighty fast !
My life is so, er, interesting of late that
I might have to do early voting,
which would be -- gulp -- next week ...
yes, this is one primary election I do NOT wish to miss.

Massachusett's "everything-else-primary-election"
is in the summertime ...
just how DID that happen??


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Feb 20 - 11:15 AM

Donuel: "What if Mike Bloomberg chose Hillary Clinton as his running mate?" Clinton, I would go for, Bloomberg, not so much.

I've been researching Bloomberg and I'm not sure he would be much of an improvement over The current pResident. There is a lot of history there, folks.

At this point, as of today, I would vote for the ticket of Klobachar/Buttiegieg. However, I will work and vote for any Democratic nominee.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: mg
Date: 20 Feb 20 - 06:57 PM

I can not stand the thought of Kl. on any ticket. I thought she was quite bad last night. I think she also has contempt for Bu. and shows it. I doubt they could work together. I want to know who can lead the country through an epidemic or a war. Who? Any of them? I think most could lead through health insurance, climate change..but the immediate..as opposed to longterm..catasrophes..? Who? I think Tulsi might be able to. I actually think Bloomberg might be the best at this although has serious problems both racist and sexist. Warren is certainly capable. Biden is/was but is compromised and showing signs of age although he was quite good last night in debates. Who can beat trump? I think Warren could. I think Bernie could but he needs to have his supporters not boycott any other candidate. I would prefer a WOC but Tulsi is not going to win and KH is out but I think she will be AG and go after everyone. I am offering EW FOR PResident and CB for VP so we can have a bulldog and a uniter on the ticket. Sorry CB did not do better..he has a bit of ME TOO baggage that I don't think he has fully addressed. Yang and castro for cabinet positions? Who for agriculture ? Someone who knows issues inside and out. Who for transportation? Must also deal with plague issues because that is one of the main ways it will spread.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Feb 20 - 07:16 PM

I find that post to be incomprehensible.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mossback
Date: 20 Feb 20 - 10:29 PM

Its incomprehensible this side of the pond as well, Steve- its not just you.

In fact, its a pretty good imitation of a Trump speech.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 02:08 AM

Verbal Diarrhœa. IMHO, YMMV.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 11:00 AM

Tulsi is a Libertarian masquerading as a Democrat - there's a reason she hasn't qualified for debates since early on. Hawaii is lucky she isn't running for her house seat again. Bloomberg seems to be crumbling before our eyes and I hope he's still good for that promise to let his bucks back whoever is the nominee.

The idea that there is a good billionaire to beat the bad billionaire is ludicrous - it's the money that has corrupted in the first place, though Trump is without a conscience as he promotes his brand from the While House while continuing to manage his businesses. Someone who has been in government, who has made government their career and understands the whole Civics process, is needed to start clearing up the mess. And set a few of these rules that Trump shattered into stone so if another crackpot is elected in the future, they can't do the same damage.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 22 Feb 20 - 05:54 PM

With no disrespect whatever intended to you, mg,
here is my brief attempt at a
"legend" for your post
-- this is how I comprehend it anyhow.

Kl. -- Klobuchar
Bu. -- Buttigieg
WOC -- woman, "of course"
KH   -- Kamala Harris
AG   -- Attorney General
EW   -- Elizabeth Warren
CB   -- Cory Booker

and if I have to tell you who is meant by
"Yang" and   "Castro,"   ... too bad.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Neil D
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 05:44 AM

The DNC is terrified of Bernie getting the nomination because they think he can't beat Trump. I say vote for him anyway because none of the other candidates can beat the beast either. If Trumpoid Boris can win in a landslide, the real bad-hair monstrosity will win as well. British politics always was the canary in the coalmine for the US. First Thatcher then Reagan; first Brexit then Trump.
The current group of Dem candidates are 5 septuagenarians and Mayor Pete. The only problem with Pete is that he will never inspire black voters to get out to the polls because of several issues during his term as mayor of South Bend, IN: firing the black chief-of-police; a police force that is made up of a much lower % of minority officers than the population; an urban renewal project where most of the houses that were brought up to code were in white neighborhoods and most of the ones razed were in black neighborhoods and just as he began his candidacy a black man shot by a white cop whose body cam had been turned off. Dems can't win the presidency without the black vote in full force: If Hillary would have gotten even half of the minority voters as Obama did, Trump would have been relegated to the dustbin of history 4 years back. I don't understand why some viable candidates like Booker, O'Rourke and Harris couldn't gain any traction, but we're left with what we have, and none will beat Trump.   
The silver lining is that because of the perverse nature of American politics the feckless Republicans will lose the Senate, the Dems will hold the house and the Donald, grandson of an illegal immigrant brothel keeper, son of a klansman, will just have to order a big box of veto pens.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 10:52 AM

I suspect that Putin thinks Bernie would be the easiest to beat also... because if he was the nominee, they would just claim him as a 'socialist'.... and Trump would..ummm... trumpet... "socialist" all thru the campaign. Too many people can't tell the difference between Democratic Socialist and something that is almost Communist.

I'm hoping for Warren...or even Biden...or Amy.. but after super Tuesday we can make a good guess. I'd happily vote for Mayor Pete, but don't expect him to get there.

My preferred candidate was too smart to get into this mess.... Claire McCaskill.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 09:02 AM

Stream of consciousness posts are best understood by their authors.
But even then...

The most profound post I have seen is that no one knows, not the pundits, Putin or public. The variables of a pandemic and money thrown around by the billions along with ideologic challenges and Trump uncerntainties is beyond any computational power I know of.

Of course I would not deny anyone the need to whinge away.

The basics will not go away however;

Those who believe that the only business of America is business is still pitted against "We the People".

The people who believe that all life is worth saving is pitted against
those who want to hang, behead, deport, war against and bomb.

It is more complex than good vs. evil. Or is it?


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 09:20 AM

If the Democrats were smart, hahahaha
They would supply blue gloves and blue masks for every Democrat to wear to the polling place.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 09:23 AM

Republicans have their magic MAGA hats.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Neil D
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 09:43 AM

I stand with Will Rogers who once said "I belong to no organized political party...I'm a Democrat."


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 10:37 AM

A hundred years ago the DEMOCRATIC PARTY used to support the KKK.
Now the 'Democrat' party is the enemy of of the KKK and tacitly the friend of the Republican party.

Until 4 years ago the Republican Party used to stand against communism.
Now they are all "RED".

Russia fought a world war against fascism, now they support Trump and Trump supports Russian tyranical interests.

Politics makes strange bedfellows.
Now strange bed fellows are gay and aren't strange.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 10:41 AM

edit
Now the 'Democrat' party is the enemy of the KKK and the KKK is tacitly the friend of the Republican party.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 11:05 AM

The most profound post I have seen is that no one knows who the Democratic candidate will surely be, not the pundits, Putin or public.
The variables of a pandemic and money thrown around by the billions along with ideologic challenges and Trump uncertainties is beyond any computational power I know of.

The BASICS will not go away;

Those 'we the corporations' believe that the only business of America is business and is still pitted against
"We the People".

The people who believe that all life is worth saving is pitted against
those who want to hang, behead, deport, shoot and bomb and pollute.

It is basicly more complex than good vs. evil. It is the worship of greed OR selfless sacrifice. Guess who wins.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 01:14 PM

The Democrats have to stop with the purity tests but at the same time recognize that if Trump wants to run against Sanders and Putin wants Trump to run against Sanders . . . they wanted Sanders last time also. This time they get their wish and we're all sunk as Trump resorts to dirty tricks and name calling and Bernie has a heart attack and loses.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 01:35 PM

Trick #1

Bernie Sanders, a sick demented Demoncrat, is 'reported' to have election assistance from Russia and Ukraine.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 04:11 PM

My standard note about political parties... the Dems & Repubs have almost exactly switched positions since Lincoln's day. LBJ and his Civil Rights bit in the 60s brought out the Dixiecrats... and the solid South was a thing of the past.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 04:27 PM

My ideas about politics is that of an old fogey.
I'm gonna throw a platter of baby elephant walk on the phonograph machine and (literally) cut a rug because I feel so young. Then I'm gonna go to the icebox, grab a Yoo Hoo and settle down in front of the boob tube to watch some John Wayne. I love the way he protects that whippersnapper who lost her dad. But if you ask me about Trump I'll tell you he is a low down double dealing no good lieing pony soldier that is full of malarkey. And that ain't just whistlin Dixie. Remember "The first rule of hair club is to not talk about hair club". I keep up with some of the latest trends but at heart I'm a full fledged fogey.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: mg
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 05:29 PM

i think someone has to be prepared to not only defeat trump but perhaps some woman of great reputation and character and competence. the only one that comes to mind is condoleeza rice. i really doubt they would put up ivanka, even for vp. it reeks. we need someone with great skill and pragmatism. Enough to carry us through a possible war and epidemic. Who? I keep coming back to bloomberg although I would far rather have warren. I recognize bloomberg's negatives..the ones i know about at least. biden seems lost and is compromised. sanders seems screechy. warren seems fine really. buttigieG ?? love his wit. Klobachar? No way period.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 05:37 PM

I know which Rice you meant but it wasn't Condoleeza. Although Condoeeza's keyboard skills are excellent.

So you want to beat a woman again? Shame on you.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 05:23 AM

Might I suggest that a more grown-up approach to your politics could incorporate better standards of judging your candidates than whether you think they seem "screechy" or "witty"?


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 11:00 AM

Susan Rice. I think Condoleeza would rather be the commissioner of baseball. And she's a Republican.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 02:27 PM

Things NOT mentioned in debates

-pretty much everything we discuss in BS including climate, guns and disease.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 02:44 PM

Since crowds and rallies will be hazardous to your health, Bloomberg will do all campaigning by TV. When will he begin being a Democrat supporting the chosen candidate Bernie?


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 04:47 PM

Might I suggest that a more grown-up approach to your politics could incorporate better standards of judging your candidates than whether you think they seem "screechy" or "witty"? Good one, Steve, when we look at the clown you have in office right now.

Prior to 2016 Trump was misbehaving and the networks let it run because it drew eyeballs and dollars. Did they think he'd win? Probably very few, including Trump, thought he'd win. Everything about him is so immature - that whole debate thing about the size of his hands and his dick - really? He lets the shit fly whenever, and that is what the networks and news outlets need to learn to ignore.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 05:12 PM

Sadly I was one of the few.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 05:55 PM

Hey Maggie, I wasn't suggesting for one second that we don't have our equal quota of the feeble-minded over here...


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mossback
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 08:16 PM

Susan? Condoleeza?

Id'd rather go with roast pork fried Rice.

Better than both of 'em.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: mg
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 12:32 AM

i absolutely meant condoleeza running instead of trump. his declining mental and physical status could very well and hopefully take him out of the race. i doubt cr wants the job but she seems competent.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 04:44 AM

Where I was from before we used to say it you out a red rosette on a pig it would get elected. Where I am now the same can be said for a blue rosette. Until we remove tribal politics and vote for the best people for the job we will always get power hungry despots like Trump and Johnson.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 06:11 AM

Spot on, Dave. Sadly, where I am, we have a blue-rosette-bedecked pig. Although he looks more like Quasimodo.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 05:29 AM

Last night President Donald Trump made his Coruna Virus Natuinal announcemnt.

He made cringe worthy claims from the briefing room which has been locked and unused for 1 year. He Dumped the entire Covid 19 task force on Pense.

Trump claimed that Corona is just a flu much less dangerous than the flu. He said the death rate of the flu is many times greater than 3 and corona is lower than flu. He also said the stock market collapse on Monday morning was due to the Democrat Debate Tuesday night.

Not even Putin can out do Trump lies


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 05:38 AM

I’m less concerned about Trump’s lies than I am about the fact that so many people believe him. Rather like the way Nouveau-Tories in Red-Wall areas here believed the lies of Dom & Dumber during the GE.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 07:07 AM

a billionaire, a gay and a socialist walk into a convention. The gay and socialist are asked for a cover charge but not the billionaire.
How come just us? The billionaire says "I'm the owner".


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: John P
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 06:20 PM

Trump gets out of bed:

"Good morning", he lied.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 06:53 PM

CNN POLL

The economic system in the US;
works well as is   10%
needs minor changes 35%
needs complete overhaul 51%

Race
white   41%
Black   55%
Hispanoc 3%

Age;
17-29   10%
30-44   18%
45-64   43%
65-    29%

Ideology;
Very liberal   20%
Somewhat lib   30%
Moderate       40%
Conservative    9%

Ever voted;
yes         81%
1st time    18%

When did you decide
today       16%
recent       21%
earlier      19%
january       6%
before that   38%

Nominate someon who
can beat Trump       53%
agrees with you      43%

What qualiy mattered most
can bring needed change 38%
unites the country    27%


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 07:00 PM

Feelings about Trump
Dissatisfied   37%
Angry          48%

Vote Democratic regardless of nominee
Yes   80%
No    17%

Which issues is foremost to you
Health care    39%
Income inequality 21%
Race relations   18%
Climate change   14%


Government plan instead of private insurance
Support 50%
Oppose 44%


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 07:07 PM

That South Carolina poll and winner is Joe Biden.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 02:29 PM

"Super Tuesday" primary elections are at hand.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 06:46 PM

Dunning-Kruger Effect

This is Trump, in the lower percentile assuming he's a genius. Proclaiming his brains to his low-percentile followers. Don't expect them to change their minds, outnumber them and vote the jerk out of office.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 08:50 PM

When I posted a while back that I thought anything could happen,
I didn't anticipate
that Pete Buddigieg would drop out of the race this soon.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 10:07 PM

Me neither!


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 10:30 PM

I started this election backing Elizabeth Warren, and I'm still backing her. She has a wisdom that I really respect. I like all the Democratic candidates, but it's Elizabeth Warren who matches my point of view. She did a great segment with Stephen Colbert:Can't say much about her choice of beer, though.....but I'll forgive that.

Oh, take a look at The Daily Show: -Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 06:46 AM

Joe, over the years did you hear the interviews that Terry Gross conducted with Warren? On Fresh Air, Warren was her go-to expert on a lot of financial topics. I did the search according to the oldest interview first. It says there were only seven; I imagine I heard repeats on occasion because it seemed like more.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 08:11 AM

10 years ago documentaries on the corrupt banking system featured Warren and they were excellent


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 11:43 AM

Tomorrow is the really big multiple-state presidential primary election.
And two less names on the ballots,
or at least two less candidates in the running.
It's going to be ... tense.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 12:55 PM

Yes indeed tommorow promises to be a real Roller Pollster.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 04:53 PM

Or is it Poller Coaster?


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 04:37 PM

Joe Biden in fifth place and out of cash made a grand underdog come back story on one endorsement, only to now face the bloomberg death star of endless cash.
And I thought Bernie was a David and Golieth story.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 05:54 PM

Did you see SNL's skit on Feb. 29? With McKinnon's Warren verbally tackling Bloomberg wherever she goes? Who else do we know who is (supposedly) really really rich and has changed parties and opinions so many times over the years? Why trade one Quixotic billionaire for another one. They nailed that one perfectly. "I may be number five in the polls but I'm number one in your nightmares." Feb. 29 episode.

#TrumpSlump


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: mg
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 01:16 AM

i still think we could get elizabeth warren. she seems competent. biden is going to have some creepy hair sniffing videos all over the trump ads and he seems to be declining in acuity. I would take bloomberg over biden or sanders but warren would be my choice.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 02:56 AM

Speaking as an outsider here!

I remember hearing vox pop segments last time where democrats were saying that if Hilary got the nomination rather than their choice, they would vote Trump. Seemed odd to me at the time, but I could see it happening this time. Biden's campaign will, I think, label Sanders as such an extreme socialist who wants to take all of your money that I can see a lot of Democrats thinking they are safer with Trump. The opposite situation is probably less extreme, but if Sanders is labelling Biden as "pretty much the same as Trump" in terms of policies, I could see Sanders supporters saying it doesn't really matter who they vote for, then.

From here, it looks like near tie looks as if it could benefit Trump more than anyone. Please tell me I am wrong!


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 07:10 AM

Bernie stabbed himself in the heart with his doubling down on Castro and revolution talk


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 08:19 AM

This whole thing [Democratic dysunity] is benefitting none but trump.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 04:30 PM

There is much less "dysunity" today than there was at the start of yesterday.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 06:03 PM

Much as I regard Bernie's politics as by far the closest to mine ever in the history of the US, I don't think you're ready for him. Normally, I'd say stick to your socialist principles. But it's so important that we get rid of Trump that I think you buggers had all better get behind Joe. I'll get me coat.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Neil D
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 11:18 PM

No reason to get your coat Steve, you're probably right. I also side with Bernie on nearly every issue but realize the U S isn't ready for universal healthcare and public college education. Funny how every other industrial country is. Trump is salivating at the prospect of running against him, but don't underestimate the Republican machine's ability to attack Uncle Joe. Even now the Republican controlled Senate is ginning up a sensationalized investigation of Hunter Biden. Never mind the fact that his time on the board of Burisma Holdings has already been investigated and found to be completely above board and free of corruption. That won't stop the cynical campaign of snide insinuation and innuendo. Several months ago a pundit said that the upcoming impeachment would hurt Biden worse than Trump. He may have been right.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Iains
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 03:24 AM

Trump's choice is sleepy Joe. You know it makes sense.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mr Red
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 05:38 AM

This whole thing [Democratic dysunity] is benefitting none but trump.

I tried to make that point. Given a choice of a single front runner and a squabbling cohort - the average undecided voter will plump for the loudest voice, and we know who shouts loudest.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 05:51 AM

She--it, there is so much democratic unity, all the California results HAVE BEEN DELAYED for days to make Joe look like the front runner for as long as possible.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 07:27 AM

the great trump hunch

Trump has a hunch his numbers are best
his truth is better than all of the rest.
The Pense Prayer to walk before you crawl
will save you from any thinking at all

Even if it doesn't make any sense
go to work if you are sickly or tense
I've done the best, its clear to see
It will all go away if you vote for me.

The Democrat is sickest by far
to politicize a cold like SARS
Its better to kill them if they come near
with all their coughing and media fears


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 11:31 AM

Is it too little, too late?

Rachel Maddow interviews Bernie Sanders


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 11:44 AM

2 weeks ago it was Bernies to lose and he did an excellent job of losing by not joining the Pettis bridge march and his remarks about Castro.
Sure the corporate candidates ganged up against him, but Bernie's mouth guaranteed losing the convention vote when it comes.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 12:07 PM

I now wear gloves which reminds me if I touch my face.
You will find it the hardest habit to break


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: John P
Date: 06 Mar 20 - 11:30 AM

Why should we expect the Democratic party to be unified during the primary season? This is the time where we get to see the differences between the candidates. As soon as we pick a candidate, there will be plenty of unity directed toward getting rid of the beast. And besides, it doesn't matter very much to me which Democrat gets it, although I'm very glad that Bloomberg dropped out. The rest of them are fine people with their own strengths and weaknesses as candidates. Any of them are infinitely better than any Republican, who are all crooks these days.

. . . his remarks about Castro.
Donuel, have you become a Republican or something? Why are you repeating their lies, acting like Sanders' comments were bad in any way? Do you really have a problem with a presidential candidate praising a literacy program in another country? He was very clear about all the things he doesn't like about Castro as well, but you don't bother reporting that.

John P


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 04:05 PM

I know that Castro was the perfect gentleman while Nixon was a flaming ass hole, but explaining how the bad blood began is lost on our rather shallow citizens.
Like all of us sometimes, Bernie could have have shut up but decided to shout.

It would be better for Bern to define Biden than let Biden define him.


The most Republican thing I have said is that the business of America is business.
Thats why we have more property laws than civil rights laws.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 10:26 AM

The DNC run to Biden is the thought that more Democrats will take the Senate and House than with Sanders as President. Maybe its true but its just a proposed strategy.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 08:59 AM

Seven more states in the US
hold presidential primary elections this week.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 10 Mar 20 - 05:53 PM

Some customary election-night rallies have been cancelled
thanks to the fear around the coronavirus.
(Ohio, for example)


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 09:10 AM

With hindsight from the outbreak of today we should have chosen a young survivor like Mayor Pete.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 13 Mar 20 - 03:19 PM

Just because candidates drop out of the presidential running,
they won't drop out of sight, after all.
Far from it --
we are still some ways off from the decision about
who the running-mates will be when it is nomination time.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 05:15 AM

last night on UK TV Channel 5 - Henry VIII & Trump: History repeating?

The premise was to compare the similarities. Yea Yea there are differences, but the similarities will alarm you.

1) Second son, inherited by the death of elder brother. Tries harder to prove himself.
2) Married his mistress as second trophy wife and it didn't go well.
3) First wife demonstrated power/success to outshine husband. Ego couldn't take it.
4) Tyrannical, ruthless hiring/firing often, eg beheading/jailing.
5) recruited from below establishment tier of advisers, yes men, beholden!
6) tore up the rule book. Messy chaotic decision making.
7) throws so many curve balls no-one can deal with them all, confuses everyone.
8) countered print/cyber criticisms as treason/fake news. Uses the technology of the day to promulgate his vituperation - print/twitter.
9) Philanderer/lothario.
10) Trump's 47th birthday party invite showed a picture of him on a throne, sword in hand, girl at feet. Holbein painted Henry to emphasise his power, towering over family. Ego personified.

Now the extrapolation:

Henry 8 left a power vacuum behind that descended into in-fighting and rapid switches. And (get this) the pundits looked to Queen Liz 1 and then to Ivanka and compared their strategies. And the strap line was:
as bizzare as it sounds, but don't bet against Ivanka being the first female president".

Many thought Twitler wouldn't get there! We are living in interesting times!


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 05:21 PM

Thomas Frank talk at Kansas City Public Library

I hour long, I haven't got to the end of it, but what I get from him is:

1) The Democrats have shifted emphasis from the blue collar workers of FDR and the depression to the winners - the lawyers, lecturers, Doctors, PhDs etc classes,

2) the Republicans have stolen the phrases of the FDR era and make Trump look like working class (huh?).

The image that came to me was a graph of the US political scenery, with Repubs Right, Democrats on the left, but there is a vertical dimension (aka money), where the democrats have moved up-market. Trump has mined the under-belly that the Dems have not talked to with enough conviction.

Maggie Thatcher did much the same. She appealed to the working class Tories. Go figure.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 28 Apr 20 - 11:11 PM

Interesting to watch state of Ohio presidential primary today;
a handful of in-person voters
practicing social distancing
and wearing face masks at the polls,
and many other people voting by mail.
The news journalists are considering this one example
as something that may have to be followed
as long as COVID-19 has the better of us.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Apr 20 - 09:12 AM

So far 20 cases of Covid resulted from voting

Meat packers are protesting. If they don't show up for work they won't get unemployment. When the government says work or give up unemployment insurance we know why there is this push to 'officially open' business.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 13 May 20 - 10:01 AM

Now it has come to this:

The Tuesday after the first Monday in November --
sacrosanct for Election Day in the USA,
as per a federal statute.

Now the current US President's son-in-law,
in his capacity as 'senior White House advisor,'
has blurted out in a Time Magazine interview
that November's Election Day
is included in many things that
a second outbreak of coronavirus could change --
and today, he retracts the statement.

But that he made the statement in the first place ...


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Jun 20 - 03:55 PM

9 June has turned into another Super Tuesday
in the series of US state primary elections.
State primary elections
that were previously scheduled at an earlier date,
and then postponed
due to the coronavirus pandemic,
have sort of piled up today.

Reports from the state of Georgia
are troubling, with accusations about
disruptions in the voting process through
everything from machines breaking down
to the closing of some polling places.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jun 20 - 05:59 PM

What Trump wants is a maskless rally-convention as usual.
I heard his new slogan "Make America come back again"

If memory serves, McCain's slogan was "Take America back"


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Jun 20 - 09:22 PM

. . . and then there was George McGovern, remember him?
"Come home, America!"

The late columnist Shana Alexander wrote
with typical world-weariness,
that "Come home, America!"
reminded her of
"a decent man calling his cocker spaniel from the back porch."


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 10 Jun 20 - 09:39 AM

... and there is still concern about
the primary election in Maryland
which was one week ago.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jun 20 - 04:52 PM

My mail in ballot could be invalidated since the return envelope was partially sealed and I had to tear it slightly to open it. Like counting chads one could claim it was tampered with. Stacy Abrams also claimed her return envelope ballot was totally sealed shut.

IOWA WINS THE TrUMP RALLY ON JUNE TEENTH
Instead of celebrating freeing the slaves Trump will have his racist rally on the same day. Trump will encourage no masks and make no mention of the pandemic. good luck Iowans.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Jun 20 - 03:22 PM

It's another Super Tuesday of primary elections.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Jun 20 - 04:40 PM

Yup. I voted absentee a while back, but I walked my absentee ballot in myself.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 11:28 AM

A possible harbinger of the big election in November:
so many absentee/mail-in ballots
that in some of yesterday's races,
it may be upwards of a week before counting is definite.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 11:32 AM

I saw a reported poll with B > T by 14 pts


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: EBarnacle
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 12:58 PM

NY held its primary yesterday. AOC has won the primary for her seat in a Blue district. Other results are notyet reported due to slow counting of absentee ballots.
Lady Hillary and I have mailed in our NJ absentee ballots, checked off for Sanders. We know that Biden has won the nomination. Having said that, Sanders' delegate representation at the [virtual] convention will give him input on the platform.
Trump is doing a wonderful job of shooting himself in the tongue. I sent a not to Biden HQ suggesting that, if Agent Orange does his usual incoherent job in the first debate, they should move to eliminate the other two out of pity for both Trump and the public.
Trump wants more debates but that would be a total waste of the public airwaves.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 04:24 PM

This was in the Juneteenth/independence thread...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/08/06/could-joe-biden-pick-barack-obama-as-his-running-mate-yes-but/

Blicky.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 05:04 PM

AhA! I knew I'd made a blicky. Anyway, if it's behind a paywall, I've pasted the text into that other thread, thinking I was pasting it here.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 05:44 AM

I watched a documentary on the "National Enquirer" and in the closing stages - even ex-staff were agog at the overt political bias in the 2016 election. And the closing text said:

"In 2018, federal prosecutors granted immunity to David Pecker and AMI for admitting the company made illegal payments to influence the 2016 presidential election"

And the programme had already delineated the connection between Pecker and Trump. If I remember rightly, Trump was a director of one of the AMI companies.

Yes, it is a shit publication, but influential, particularly to its demographic.

Be afraid America, be very afraid.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 09:43 AM

'Trump Think' is a new problem solving strategy which is a spin off of Denial.
If you want numbers to look more favorable-stop measuring.
If you don't test for cancer or Covid the numbers will drop.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 07:57 AM

The Pense Pandemic Task Force:

By doing nothing, a few people will get sick and die. This is our amazing and successful official policy in the US which is now passing its earlier all time high infection rate. We're #1. Remember " we must not make the cure worse than the disease". So we open early, force certain workers into infection chambers at work, roll back testing and contact tracing, have unmasked political gatherings inside and by not supporting people who are unemployed. Go to crowded events and party. People are saying that those who die are already old or black... wink wink nudge nudge know what I mean?

We must even decide if we should try to save those who weakly decide to succumb to the virus at all if there are not enough beds, PPE or medical treatments.
We must not make treatment worse than the effect on the economy!
So go ahead and take no personal responsibility. DO NOT WEAR A MASK.
Be a fancy free Steve. You don't have to chant 'Lets do nothing' but just be sure to take no social respondsibility.
Not caring for the sick and dieing is easier than it sounds. It is the last viral intrusion on our lives. All that wasted money is saved. WE DON'T NEED TO BURY THE DEAD. Body removal has been shown to work best with ovens. Gas is cheap now, so take a flight and smirk. That reciculated air in a hypo baric pressure tube is less dangerous than an infected TSA agent. You can even take a cruise at half price.
Make life cheap again! {^/ PRAY PRAY PREY

HIEL TRUMP 2020


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 01:35 PM

TRUMP THINKS
Removing millions from the Affordable Health Care Act by an order by the Supreme Trump Court couldn't happen at a better time than in the middle of a pandemic. It will save time and beds for people with Cadillac Insurance plans. Let the poor heal themselves.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 04:15 PM

He is so stubbornly selfish, it's clear that no one could ever change his mind. What's good for him must be good for America, eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jun 20 - 12:02 PM

BIDEN SAYS HE IS comfortable with letting Trump hang himself.
Trump said that is lynching hate speech and a criminal murder threat, until an aid reminded him that he would have to hang himself first for those charges to stick. :^?


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jun 20 - 06:28 AM

So who ya gonna vote for, sleepy Joe Offer or tantrum Trump?
Republicans want a moniker more villiainous than 'sleepy' Joe.
But what?


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jun 20 - 02:00 PM

First Joe Offer is sleepy only bfore bed. As for the national election, We are already in the extreme silly season of an election.
I don't know which lies are more effective anymore but there are more extreme prevarications arriving more often. To even respond to them is a participation in the stagecraft of the absurd. 'Minds will be boggled but not changed at this point'.
The power of real raw self interest of Democrats and Republicans will be the driving force from now on, and that outcome is partially up to you despite the dumpster fires and suppressions.
So I'm goin cat fishin with some yarn on a stick until Halloween and try to ignore politics till then.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 30 Jun 20 - 09:25 PM

Another big Tuesday of primary elections.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Jul 20 - 03:37 PM

All the world’s a hoax,
And all the men and women merely minions;
They have their firing and their hiring;
And the best man in his time plays many parts,
His acts being seven ages. At first the infant,
Mewling and puking in the nurse’s arms;
And then the winning school-boy, with his ball
And shining morning face, the greatest of the great
school is purchased. And then Cassenova,
Sighing like furnace, with a woeful ballad
Made to his prostitites’ ear. Then a cadet soldier,
Full of strange oaths, Jealous in honour, sudden and quick in quarrel,Seeking the Epstien reputation
Even in the liars mouth. And then the injustice,
In fair round belly filled with fast food,
With eyes severe and hair of surgical cut,
Full of wise guys and modern instances;
And so he plays his TV part. The sixth age shifts
Into the statue of President.
With no mask on nose and a pouch a world too wide
For his shrunk shank; and his mocking voice,
Turning again toward childish treble, pipes
And whistles in his sound. Last scene of all,
That ends this strange eventful history,
His second childishness and mere oblivion;
Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Jul 20 - 04:53 PM

It might help if people educated themselves on people who stutter. Good article on stuttering by a stutterer interviewing Joe Biden

The Atlantic January/February 2020 (Emma) Alpern told me that she’s on a group text with other stutterers who regularly discuss Biden, and that it’s been “frustrating” to watch the media portray Biden’s speech impediment as a sign of mental decline or dishonesty. “Biden allows that to happen by not naming it for what it is,” she said, though she’s not sure that his presidential candidacy would benefit if he were more forthcoming. “I think he’s dug himself into a hole of not saying that he still stutters for so long that it would strike people as a little weird.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/01/joe-biden-stutter-profile/602401/


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Jul 20 - 05:38 PM

I've never heard that Biden had a speech impediment. Gaffes, yes, but nothing else.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mr Red
Date: 03 Jul 20 - 04:12 AM

I watched a couple of videos and there are notable Americans out there openly calling Trump a liar. And always referring to him as Mr Trump, never president!

The Russian angle looks to be a pivotal issue for him. Anyone with an angle to get rid of the UK's very own buffo?


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Jul 20 - 09:24 AM

Ok I knew this was coming:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-2020-us-election-third-term-tim-wirth-white-house-a9600486.html

Blicky


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jul 20 - 07:50 AM

From: oldhippie - PM
Date: 02 Jul 20 - 09:30 PM

HOW FAR WE HAVE COME

Bill Frederick

When our fathers came to this golden land
There was nothing but forests and rivers and sand
And a few million Indians running around
Now look what we've made of the little they found

Theyre's cities of silver that shine in the night
Churches of splendor and halls of delight
And only an echo of Indian drums
Who can deny how far we have come

The slave ships they came with the whip and the rack
And a million black people with scars on their back
Picked cotton, drew water, and slept in the cold
With a bible for comfort they were happy and cold

The laws they were passed, slavery went
Our lives integrated at least six percent
In the sharecroppers shack and the big city slum
Who can deny how far we have come

The immigrants came from the green Irish shore
From Poland and Russia, ten million and more
Germany, Italy, all the world round
To settle our ghettos and immigrant towns

Their brains and their bodies they put to the wheel
To build our great factories and towers of steel
To march to our battles and carry our guns
Who can deny how far we have come

Now all through the Andes, they've heard of our name
On the factory wall, in the palace of shame
They drink Coca Cola and the times that they spend
Goes straight to the pockets of our businessmen

To pay for our Fords, and our split level homes
Our Hi-Fis and records and six percent loans
Our profits protected with dictators guns
Who can deny how far we have come

In Asia and Africa, they're learning too
How free enterprise can do wonders for you
South Africas prisons are bursting with men
Barbed wire keeps the Vietnamese in

Where elections are daydreams that never get far
American weapons are there standing guard
We're ready to fight for the lands that we run
Who can deny how far we have come

Our fears they are many though they're seldom saved
They're black and they're yellow and they're brown and they're red
They see through the legend, they smell the decay
They're learning to fight the American way

And we in our armchairs are quick to condemn
Our bankbooks are falling, our profits might end
The breaking of change is our funeral hum
Who can deny how far we have come

When our fathers came to this golden land
There was nothing but forests and rivers and sand
And a few million Indians running around
Now look what we've made of the little they found

Theyre's cities of silver that shine in the night
Churches of splendor and halls of delight
And only an echo of Indian drums
Who can deny how far we have come


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Jul 20 - 08:26 AM

Good poetry, there.

Dubya and his pack/PAC-mates are working against idiot, wow.

And the WH is keeping, or trying to keep, him from talking to Americans at all, especially about the [whispering] pandemic.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Jul 20 - 10:49 PM

First let's get some spelnig strait: It's Condoleezza.

Next I think that it will turn out that the country has accelerated its liberating trends in the Tr*mp administration. Because of the current occupant we've seen much more desecration of Confederate erstwhile idols and their battleflag.

There's something about having an oaf in office that makes you just want to pour water on a burning cross...

I don't think this would be the case if Hilary had won. I think Nascar would still have the flag and Washington R-skins would not be considering a name change. On the other hand, would there be thousands more Americans alive? Very likely...


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jul 20 - 06:16 PM

spelnig sounds racist


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jul 20 - 06:04 AM

The Republican Convention will be attended by Mike Lindell the my pillow guy and Rand Paul but everyone else from the Senate and Tik Tok are doubtful. There may even be more Michigan militiamen than delegates. Steve Scalise is promoting an 'IN PERSON' Disney World PAC convention to collect money for Trump since he doesn't trust the mail for donations.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jul 20 - 11:05 AM

It's Hillary. Two l's. And yes, I think there would be many more Americans alive if a decent human being were president and not the sociopath in the office right now.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jul 20 - 11:26 AM

Robo knows how to spell but typos happen.
I like misspelling delibertely like "scarred strait"


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Jul 20 - 08:12 AM

I have been wondering if it's worth all the death and destruction to a) not reelect him and b) get rid of the confederacy crap / have all lives actually ally matter...


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Jul 20 - 08:12 AM

Kanye West for president? less than 6mins into this.

And you thought you cannot make up this kinda crap!


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jul 20 - 03:24 PM

The Republican Govenors who stuck to Trump like a wet tongue to dry ice are now beggining to peel off as the results of the Trump folly of reopening ASAP has turned into the greatest out break of Covid on Earth.
Texas, Florida and others are reversing course but stopping and reversing are quick for trains and cruise ships when compared to entire states in an exponential pandemic.

I think Trump has exceeded Picketts charge at Gettysburg as far as folly and tradgedy goes.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jul 20 - 09:23 PM

The Supreme Court decided that the prez is subject to supeonas afterall

Also decided is a case by the Cree Indians who learned that a treaty in 1907 shows clearly they own half of Tulsa Oklahoma. THEY WON
The native Americans will end up with better healthcare and much more.
More will come out about this.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Neil D
Date: 10 Jul 20 - 12:54 AM

Blackish star Anthony Anderson had this to say about Kanye's announcement: "Wow, President Kanye. That's right—Yeezy wants to be Preezy and you know, laugh all you want, but this would be historic because, while this country has had a Black president, we've never had a crazy Black president."

The actor continued, "It should be pointed out that Kanye still has to register with the Federal Election Commission, collect enough signatures to get on the ballot, create a campaign platform and he's already missed the deadline to file as an independent candidate in a bunch of states. But other than that," Anderson concluded, "he good."


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 Jul 20 - 02:28 AM

while this country has had a Black president, we've never had a crazy Black president.

LOL


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jul 20 - 05:40 PM

Constitutional scholor prez- been there done that
KRazY sTupid- been there done that
How about survival oriented?


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 05 Aug 20 - 09:44 AM

Well, primary elections are distinct from national elections,
especially when the races are for official state posts.
Still.

Yesterday was the Arizona primary.
Old Joe Arpaio ran for his old office of sheriff,
and was defeated by only 500 votes for the incumbent.

Every vote really DOES count ...


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Aug 20 - 10:01 AM

Its been week of Yo Semites, Thighland and claims that Biden is a radical left winger who is banning religion Hurting God.
It turns out I have the same ancestory as Trump, English-German and Scottish. The only differences are polar opposite fathers, 8 Billion dollars and a few IQ points.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Aug 20 - 05:43 PM

And of course Biden will take your guns away.
The NRA is now a paper tiger and has no money for Republicans in the short run as LaPierre and cronies are looking at jail time.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Aug 20 - 02:49 PM

At latest report,
the Republican primary election in
Arizona's Maricopa County, for county sheriff
(Greater Metropolitan Phoenix et al.),
seems decided.
In the previous election, Democrat candidate Paul Penzone defeated
longtime incumbent Joe Arpaio.
This Democrat incumbent will face challengers in November.

This past Tuesday, two candidates fought for the Republican candidacy:
Joe Arpaio, now in his '80s,
and his former deputy, Jerry Sheridan.
Although the race was close,
Sheridan now has a 6,000+ lead, in votes, over Arpaio.

(Whew)


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Aug 20 - 11:25 AM

Went to see our dentist today in South London today for some torture and the usual lecture!! The receptionist was from USA and told us that her sister in Denver will be sending voting papers by Fedex so that she can vote against Trumpety Trump. I think the words she used to describe Trump was mental arsehole!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Aug 20 - 11:27 AM

89 days


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Aug 20 - 08:01 AM

White Nationalist Miller + Himmler


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Aug 20 - 08:13 AM

GOERING AND POMPEO
Family heritage
Pompeo


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Aug 20 - 02:34 PM

BIDEN PICKS HILLARY FOR VP !!!!!!
He figures she was robbed the first time.
This misinformation although fake is typical for DEMOCRATIC PARTY WISDOM
Remember Geraldine Ferraro?
-send all hate mail to Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Aug 20 - 09:31 AM

I was just trying to remember Geraldine Ferraro's name. I knew I would recognize it, but could not recall it at all.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Aug 20 - 04:57 PM

So what do we think? An insult to white men?


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Aug 20 - 05:26 PM

No surprise Kamala Harris was selected. She is an experienced campaigner. I was hoping for Warren, but she's also older, and Susan Rice has a lot of experience but has never run a campaign. The Trumpites would revive their Bengazi claims (four people died, all hell broke loose as far as they are concerned, those who are silent about 160,000 dead from COVID-19).


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Aug 20 - 07:04 PM

It's a gutsy choice on Biden's part. I think of it as a reverse of Obama selecting an older, known, white male to stabilize his campaign. In this case it's the old, too well known, too white, too male picking a younger female of color who can get out there and provide some energy to balance the perceptions of the main runner. I think it shows some guts in the old boy. Now I've got to hear from my California contacts to see what they think and feel about it.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Aug 20 - 06:17 AM

Joe Biden (age 77) selects Kamala Harris (the second African American woman and the first Indian American to serve in the United States Senate) as his running mate.
If Biden wins the presidency his age makes possible the second non-white President, and the first female President.
Is the USA moving into the twenty-first century? (only the voters can decide)


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 12 Aug 20 - 07:21 AM

Sadly, the electoral college will decide. I think Biden made the right call in Harris but I wonder how soon before an increasingly desperate twitler calls into question her country of origin.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 14 Aug 20 - 12:29 PM

"[Donald] Trump, like [Joe] Arpaio,
is never going to go away."

The Guardian on 'Sheriff' Joe Arpaio, Donald Trump, and the Arizona state primary election


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Aug 20 - 01:58 PM

In Virginia you can vote early, as of 45 days before the election.

Is it 45 days yet?


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Aug 20 - 03:42 PM

Scary scenarios here.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Aug 20 - 04:46 PM

If this article on postal problems is behind a paywall lemme know, I'll post the article.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Aug 20 - 10:05 AM

Larry Elliot on today's Guardian website. Yanks, take nothing for granted. You could easily be in for four more years.

...the polls have started to tighten a bit and are likely to close still further over the coming weeks, because Trump has three things going for him.

The first is that the number of new Covid-19 cases appears to have peaked, with definite signs of progress in some of the bigger states such as Florida, Texas and California. What happens to the virus over the coming months will have a material impact on the state of the economy.

The second – somewhat ironically – is that activity in China has bounced back more rapidly than expected, and this is keeping global stock markets buoyant. Here, Trump is getting the best of both worlds: he piggybacks on Chinese growth while at the same time getting tough with Beijing over trade and human rights – something that plays well with voters.

Finally, he has the benefit of being the incumbent, which allows him to pull off stunts like the signing of executive orders to provide fresh support to the unemployed. Under the separation of powers, Congress holds the purse strings in the US so Trump’s initiative is unlikely to amount to much, but that’s not the point. This is all about who gets blamed for the impasse between Republicans and Democrats over the next phase of stimulus.

To win, Trump needs nothing to go wrong and everything to go right in the coming months: no surges in Covid-19, no setbacks to the economy, no share price crashes on Wall Street. It is a tall order but Biden should take nothing for granted.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Aug 20 - 08:08 PM

It's possible for Amazon Prime members to subscribe to the Washington Post for $4 a month after a six month free trial. It's worth it in this political era.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Aug 20 - 09:44 PM

I don't fucking believe it. Grr.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 18 Aug 20 - 11:21 AM

The New York Times printed a feature article
connecting the now-defeated Joe Arpaio with
incumbent Donald Trump.

How Joe Arpaio's Fate in Arizona could be a Window into Trump's


As to Arizona, and the Maricopa County sheriff:
it ain't over yet.
That was the Republican primary contest this month (August),
and Arpaio was defeated by Jerry Sheridan, Arpaio's former deputy,
who becomes the Republican candidate in November.
Sheridan will face
incumbent Sheriff Penzone, the Democrat,
who defeated Arpaio four years ago.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Aug 20 - 12:14 AM

Three nights and they've put it over the top each time. I'm curious who the host will be tomorrow - my money is on someone like Henry Louis Gates or S. Epatha Merkerson.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Aug 20 - 11:58 AM

Everyone trying to be all cuddly and consensual gets a bit boring after a while.

But the Michelle and Barack Obama both did a remarkably good job. The trouble is, by contrast, it made most of the others look pretty routine.

The most effective bits I saw were the occasion snatches of Trump, which should be enough to motivate a landslide for Biden. Unfortunately, incredible though it seems, there are millions of Americans whose stomachs do not appear to turn over at the very thought of the man.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Aug 20 - 01:21 PM

It is still scary.

79.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Aug 20 - 09:52 AM

The Neo white power nationalist Republi CON party will be adding Q-Anon to their ranks in Congess.
Q Anon isn't boring but they have crazy beliefs.
Their catch phrase is 'where one goes we all go'. ??
Perhaps they need a national anthem; I have a humble submission...

Well, I saw the thing comin' out of the sky
It had the one long horn, one big eye
I commenced to shakin' and I said "ooh-eee"
It looks like a purple people eater to me
It was a one-eyed, pedophile, flyin' purple people eater
(One-eyed, pedophile, flyin' purple people eater)
A one-eyed, pedophile, flyin' purple people eater
Sure looks strange to me
Well it came down to earth and it lit in a tree
I said please Purple People Eater, don't eat me
I heard him say in a voice so strong
"I wouldn't eat you 'cause you're Q anon"
It was a one-eyed, pedophile, flyin' purple people eater
One-eyed, pedophile flyin' purple people eater
One-eyed, pedophile, flyin' purple people eater
Sure looks strange to me
I said Mr. Purple People Eater, what's your line?
He said "eatin' purple people and it sure is fine
But that's not the reason that I came to land
I want to rule the world and eat all the kids"
Well bless my soul, pedophile, flyin' purple people eater
Pigeon-toed, pedophile, flyin' purple people eater
(We wear short shorts) democratic people eater
What a sight to see
And then it swung from the tree and it lit on the ground
And it started to eat, really eatin' fetus'
It was a crazy cannibal eatin' beast
(Sing a boop-boop, a-boopa lopa lum bam boom)
Well, bless my soul, pedophile flyin' purple people eater
Pigeon-toed, pedophile, flyin' purple people eater
"I like short shorts!" democratic people eater
What a sight to see
Well, he went on his way, and then what do ya know?
I saw him last night on a TV show
He was eatin babies, and was raping some kids
Playin' politics like Hillary Clinton
"Q Anon!"


it sounds like q-Anon is actually against abortion, Catholics, Jews, Islam, democrats, history, other races, trust in government and knowledge, however they have wackos who take it all litterally.
It sounds like a new internet flavor of the KKK.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Aug 20 - 09:48 AM

Coming up this week: four evenings of GOP party bile and Trump vitriol, and while it is typical that a candidate mostly stays out of view until the last night (with small visits only), expect Trump to grab the mic every night. He can't help himself.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Aug 20 - 02:16 PM

The more he shows himself the better. I know there is a hard core of people who actually adore him, but a large part of the minority of Americans who voted him in were surely holding their noses while voting for him for other reasons. There's only so long you can hold your nose.

One thing that makes me gasp is how such an extremely unpleasant man can dare to talk about anyone as being nasty. Surely being nasty is his "Unique Selling Proposition"?

Interesting to have confirmation now from his own big sister that he really is even nastier than he parades himself in public as being.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Aug 20 - 06:24 PM

The context for the "big sister" assertion, in the previous post,
is supplied by this feature article from
Reuters in Washington, D. C.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Aug 20 - 08:33 AM

Ok, 25!

Days till we can vote early and in person in Virginia.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Aug 20 - 06:37 AM

I was really surprised that the GOP convention officialy announced there will be NO party platform anymore and to only follow the leader Donald Trump who is the 'bodyguard' of western civilization.
With a bodyguard like Trump, avoid all ramps.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Aug 20 - 10:03 AM

I am currently reading the 1936 Sinclair Lewis novel It Can't Happen Here and the parallels are astonishing.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Aug 20 - 11:14 AM

My dad made that required reading in my teens.
In a sense I failed to keep the scourge in the woodwork.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Aug 20 - 03:35 PM

End the scourge - end the purge.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Aug 20 - 05:49 AM

Adding a stamp to your postage paid ballot will force USPS to handle it as first class mail instead of bulk.   Pass the word.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Aug 20 - 09:32 AM

It's a special case this year, which requires and justifies postal votes - but generally I don't like the idea much. Going along to stick your vote in a box in a polling station set up in a school or a pub seems a pleasant ritual.. (As for voting machines...)


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Aug 20 - 05:09 PM

Advice includes bring a chair, a picnic, comfy shoes. Anticipate loooong lines, in other words. They say bring water too but then you'll have to pee...


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Aug 20 - 11:20 PM

Mrrzy: Take no chances. Stay hydrated and bring a "stadium pal"!


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Aug 20 - 05:10 AM

There is room for satire regarding election suppression tactics and long lines but be prepared to be attacked for it.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Aug 20 - 03:05 PM

Mine wasn't satire. I am reading those recommendations. I just added the advice about peeing.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Aug 20 - 08:53 PM

Are there a lot fewer polling stations in the States than there are here in England? Where I live we had a turnout of 64% last time, and no queuing at all so far as I could see. I know you have a much more complicated set of votes than we ever do, but that would just need a few more voting booths than the two we've got in our local school. The number of potential voters doesn't increase even if it takes longer for each one to vote.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Aug 20 - 10:21 AM

The number of *potential* voters doesn't change, but *actual* voting declines with long lines. For starters, polls close at a certain time, not when everyone in line has voted.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Aug 20 - 09:15 PM

What I meant was that with enough local polling stations and enough voting booths in them there needn't be long lines, even with a high vote and long voting slips. The only reason for long lines is not enough polling stations and voting booth. It only makes sense if you're trying to reduce the number voting.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Aug 20 - 11:28 PM

"The Office of the Director of National Intelligence has informed us that it will no longer provide briefings to Members of Congress, including the House and Senate Intelligence committees, on foreign efforts to interfere in our upcoming election. This is a shocking abdication of its lawful responsibility to keep the Congress currently informed, and a betrayal of the public’s right to know how foreign powers are trying to subvert our democracy. This intelligence belongs to the American people, not the agencies which are its custodian. And the American people have both the right and the need to know that another nation, Russia, is trying to help decide who their president should be."

Politicus USA (if you look at the bottom of the firewall popup there is a small line that says "continue w/o supporting this time" to click on and expose the article.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Aug 20 - 07:10 AM

Trump rationalizes that Congress can not be trusted because they leak and use video of the harrassed members of his administration by Democrats questioning his loyalists face to face.
He will still provide tweets or post it notes to Congress.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 31 Aug 20 - 08:06 AM


In UK, anyone is allowed to vote who is in the queue for the polling station, as long as they join the queue before the polls close. In theory, if a very large number of voters turned up in the last few minutes, the voting could go on late into the night, and having been counting agent (scrutinising the count on behalf of the political [party I belong to) it is tiring and painful on the feet for the four-five hours it normally takes without having a couple hour extra added waiting for the late boxes to arrive.

With regards to your advice regarding queuing for hours, would an empty bottle be advised - sorry about lowering the tone of the conversation!!!

Look forward to hearing you again tonight. You are a superb story teller.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 31 Aug 20 - 09:46 AM

Mwah!

Meanwhile I am actually starting to worry about armed white supremacist Americans and this November.

But my anxiety remains in check.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 31 Aug 20 - 10:44 AM

Not sure if that would make Trump look very good in the eyes of the world media if he refused to condemn such an action is his favour, especially if this happens in pro-Democrat voting neighbourhoods in states that narrowly voted for Trump. Hard to see how he could spin that in his favour.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Aug 20 - 11:02 AM

Trump doesn't care how anything he does looks, he just does what he thinks can mess up the opposition and get him another four years in office. At first it seemed like he was surprised at being elected and didn't want to stay, odds were he would resign in the early days. But once he got the hang of shoveling cash directly into his enterprise and doing things that make certain people praise him, he ignores the rest of it.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Aug 20 - 01:21 PM

Amy Rigby and Wreckless Eric have the right idea.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Aug 20 - 05:14 PM

By satire I meant a rolling 'My voting buddy' combo chair kitchen bathroom designed to last hours in a slow pandemic voting line.
It comes up your armpits and has a HEPA filter air supply and mask.
It comes in red blue or purple.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Aug 20 - 06:57 PM

That caravan of pro-Trump paramilitaries driiving in to Portland looked like a terrifying development, with so many parallels from other times and places. The TV pictures looked for all the world like the kind of thing we've seen in the early stages of Civil Wars.

What do we call them? Trumpshirts maybe?


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Aug 20 - 09:59 PM

And thank you for that link, Backwoodsman. Very concise, eloquent and timely. And a real Mindworm!

Here's another link, with the words, which might be handy. All together then...


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Sep 20 - 01:40 AM

Thanks Kevin. I was attracted to folk music back in the Protest days, and I reckon that’s as good a Protest Song as any I’ve heard.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Sep 20 - 06:02 AM

The western and mid western right wing militias are now in competition with each other. Some ride in pick up truck beds shooting mace and paintball guns into demonstrators. Some show up with live ammo. They are defending themselves and Trump, their excuser and chief.
Escalation will culminate in intensifying a fear of going to the polls.
They are correct in assuming they have most police on their side.
The use of the term civil war is discouraged and it is said that we are a country at war with itself. More blood will be shed as the election draws closer and Trump throws more troops into Portland and Chicago. It won't be as bad as you think but it could make Trump President for four more years as more nazi like folk heros are created and memorialized while ignoring the dead mad crazy democrats and blacks. At least stratigists like Steve Miller, McConnel, Bannon and Trump hope so.

Yesterday I watched from my parked car as a policeman in a cruiser detained an apparant vagrant and homeless black man and called for back up of two more police vehicles. There was no search or abuse but there was the appearance and fear by the police. Even a firetruck showed up but soon left the scene. It feels like things are on a hair trigger. Perhaps you didn't know the police can now call paramedics to administer 500 mg of Ketamine to suspects. It will be fatal to small people but only render larger people unconscious.
Things are moving just slow enough that Americans are getting used to it. It remains that Trump is the only one calling balls and strikes be it about violence or the pandemic.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 01 Sep 20 - 06:39 AM

Rather than civil war, it looks more lie state provocation towards a race war - as if the white supremacists are going beyond reversing what Obama achieved back to trying to rkeverse the social progression since the civil rights unrest. Trouble is it seems to be spreading over here. All it takes is insidious rhetoric by governments - eg May's 'Hostile Environment' to stir up race hate.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Sep 20 - 06:46 AM

To cheer us up a little maybe, here's this elegant lyric from Australia
Which has a rather similar chorus

And here is another version of the same ditty.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Sep 20 - 06:51 AM

Yes the UK has much to cheer about

in comparison


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Sep 20 - 01:31 PM

In some ways. We've got the NHS, which is big thing. But the death rate from Covid 19 relative to population is actually still a bit ahead of that in the USA, though it won't be long before you are way ahead at the rate you are going.

And Boris Johnson isn't quire as outright evil as Donald Trump, but he's still a lazy and incompetent clown.

But at least nobody sees not wearing a mask as a political statement or a patriotic gesture. It may have helped that Boris Johnson, after boasting about shaking the hands of everyone when he visited at hospital, came down with Covid and very nearly died. It's a great pity that the same didn't happen to Trump.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Sep 20 - 02:43 PM

A Facebook investigation shows that Russian controled sites are targeting Americans to go to fake left wing websites. I do not facebook so I don't know what they say.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 01 Sep 20 - 06:13 PM

I live in Massachusetts,
where the state primary is this very day.
There will be drama.
A Kennedy scion running against
Senator Ed Markey,
whose background is that he was a US Representative for a long time.
Darned if I know who will defeat whom.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Sep 20 - 06:20 AM

Shhh...Trump has stumbled and fallen and went to Walter Reed. Since then he has tweeted that he has not had a stroke. Nope no stroke here and protests too much that he has not had a mini stroke. His family history is sad for his father and his brothers regarding cause of death (Alzhiemers, Alcoholism and A stroke) but his mom lived to 93. Donald is probably just top heavy and as a result wobbly.

Biden's mom is alive and over 100 last I heard.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Sep 20 - 08:57 PM

That last post I made was open to misunderstanding. The actual running daily death rate from Covid 19 in the UK is now down to 13 - which scaled up to the size of the USA would be equivalent to about 75 a day, somewhat lower than the actual figure of 1000 or so.

What I meant was, the total number of dead from Covid in the UK so far, where our 41,527 works out to more than the USA total to date if you adjust it for your population.

Of course the figure that is really significant here is the excess deaths, to allow for stuff like people dying from other things because they couldn't get help they needed, because of the Covid crisis. That's a good bit higher for both the UK and the USA.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Sep 20 - 09:45 PM

"The killed, injured and captured members of the armed services are all losers and suckers."

Let each republican leader explain that Trump quote.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Sep 20 - 02:50 PM

The Trump faithful in their millions will believe him when he denies it. The leaders will pretend to believe him.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Sep 20 - 03:51 PM

I would take lazy and incompetent over what we have any day, with gravy.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Sep 20 - 08:28 PM

As in someone like Boris Johnson? Up against Trump clearly you'd choose him. It's a bit hard to think of too many you wouldn't.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Sep 20 - 04:08 PM

founding fathers sing


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Sep 20 - 05:44 PM

I saw that video where a guy who voted republican last time said this time, if the dems ran a can of tomatoes, he'd vote for the can.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: mg
Date: 06 Sep 20 - 01:10 AM

re excess deaths...how would you count, or would you, the people who did not die but probably would have. i think this is noted in australia, where flu deaths are way way down...


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Sep 20 - 05:14 AM

True enough - lots of side effects which did a little bit to set against the disastrous consequences. No traffic on the roads meant fewer road casualties, less pollution from planes. Nice quiet road behind my house which is normally deafening. Fewer hedgehogs flattened...

But overall a lot more people died. The UK government figures on August 20 had total extra deaths to date as 55,000, with 49,000 of those linked directly to Covid.
..............

Typical of Trump that when denying calling fallen soldiers "losers" and ¿suckers" he immediately moved on to talking about the money he claimed to have pushed in their direction. Thus confirming that he sees all these things in "transactional" terms. (And predictably enough, those claims were false.)


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Sep 20 - 07:23 PM

9 more days till I can vote. I can hold on that long.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Sep 20 - 04:06 PM

Its been said in the land of the free
(to demonstrate)
and the home of the brave
( who stay home)
downplaying a pandemic is the worst thing to do.

The only panic came from being 'legally' shot in the streets.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Sep 20 - 05:07 PM

It looks like out county mails the ballots to voters on September 19. I'll be watching to see if the post office mangles the delivery of them to our homes (I'm due to receive an absentee ballot, I filed a request to get one every time now that I am eligible as I have reached the age I have reached).


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Sep 20 - 09:06 AM

I got a Please vote in person or absentee thing from the post office that had no false info on it.
Today is the Monday of the week I can vote on Friday. So if you look at it one way and squint, there are only three more whole not-yet days left.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Sep 20 - 09:41 AM

"Don't Panic" is probably the most frightening phrase in the English language.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Sep 20 - 09:28 PM

This is the man Trump put in charge of censoring the CDC
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/14/us/politics/caputo-virus.html


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Sep 20 - 09:42 PM

Here's an excerpt if blocked

Mr. Caputo charged that scientists “deep in the bowels of the C.D.C.” walked “around like they are monks” and “holy men” but engaged in “rotten science.”

He fiercely defended his scientific adviser, Dr. Paul Alexander, who was heavily involved in the effort to reshape the C.D.C.’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Reports. Mr. Caputo described Dr. Alexander, an assistant professor at McMaster University in Canada, as “a genius.”

“To allow people to die so that you can replace the president is a grievous venial sin, venial sin,” Mr. Caputo said. “And these people are all going to hell. The shooting will begin if Biden does not concede”


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Sep 20 - 06:42 AM

Armed insurrection if Biden wins is Trumps own rhetoric.

For people who work at the NIH they have noticed that CDC data comes in the same day every month for the last 28 years but lately the data could be 2 or 3 weeks late.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Sep 20 - 08:19 PM

So Trump and allies are talking violent take over.
Let him declare war on America and nobody comes to fight.
Its probably happened before in history but I wouldn't know.
How embarrassing for the two guys who actually show up in DC to defend a deposed Donald.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Sep 20 - 08:31 AM

does anyone feel will Bob Woodward's book on Trump have any effect on the election?

As is said in an article about the book - "there are many books on Trump, this is just another". And Captain Catstrophe allowed interviews because he thought he could sweet-talk a man of integrity.

Just another book? That people will sit up and take notice IMHO.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Sep 20 - 08:38 AM

McGrath of Harlow, you reminded me of an old practical joke from the days before intercontinental phone calls, where you'd send a cable saying Ignore previous telegram all fine don't panic, which would of course panic the poor recipients.

One. More. Day.

I squint a lot.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Sep 20 - 10:06 PM

For the faithful it is all a witch hunt hoax, don't believe your eyes and everything except my tweets are the enemy of the people.
However the quote "I love to play it down, I'm still playing it down" is repeated often on TV.

In DC town the armory has stockpiled body armor piercing ammo, Gas explosion bass loud speaker crowd control weapons (they nauseate crowds) and microwave cannons, they call it a heat ray today.

I was exposed to the microwave cannon years ago and it immediately disabled me falling flat. Don't ask why.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Sep 20 - 12:29 PM

I have voted. Yay. Took about an hour including the line, not bad.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Sep 20 - 07:37 PM

Ruth Bader Ginsberg dies at 87.


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