mudcat.org: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafeawe

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2] [3]


BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)

keberoxu 16 Mar 20 - 06:26 PM
mg 14 Mar 20 - 08:53 PM
keberoxu 14 Mar 20 - 07:14 PM
Helen 14 Mar 20 - 07:13 PM
mg 11 Mar 20 - 08:47 PM
Helen 11 Mar 20 - 08:07 PM
mg 11 Mar 20 - 05:32 PM
mg 11 Mar 20 - 05:22 PM
mg 11 Mar 20 - 05:20 PM
Helen 11 Mar 20 - 02:31 PM
Helen 11 Mar 20 - 02:25 PM
punkfolkrocker 11 Mar 20 - 02:06 PM
keberoxu 11 Mar 20 - 10:41 AM
mg 10 Mar 20 - 03:21 AM
mg 10 Mar 20 - 02:20 AM
Helen 10 Mar 20 - 01:26 AM
punkfolkrocker 10 Mar 20 - 01:20 AM
mg 10 Mar 20 - 12:55 AM
Helen 09 Mar 20 - 11:54 PM
punkfolkrocker 09 Mar 20 - 11:33 PM
Helen 09 Mar 20 - 11:31 PM
mg 09 Mar 20 - 11:08 PM
Helen 09 Mar 20 - 10:49 PM
Steve Shaw 09 Mar 20 - 10:02 PM
Mossback 09 Mar 20 - 08:15 PM
punkfolkrocker 09 Mar 20 - 07:40 PM
Steve Shaw 09 Mar 20 - 05:32 PM
Helen 09 Mar 20 - 05:19 PM
Helen 09 Mar 20 - 05:03 PM
Steve Shaw 09 Mar 20 - 06:38 AM
mg 09 Mar 20 - 02:43 AM
Helen 09 Mar 20 - 02:05 AM
keberoxu 09 Mar 20 - 01:35 AM
mg 08 Mar 20 - 04:49 AM
Helen 25 Feb 20 - 03:59 PM
keberoxu 23 Feb 20 - 04:49 PM
Helen 23 Feb 20 - 03:40 PM
keberoxu 23 Feb 20 - 02:37 PM
Senoufou 23 Feb 20 - 02:36 PM
Iains 23 Feb 20 - 02:31 PM
Senoufou 23 Feb 20 - 04:03 AM
Helen 23 Feb 20 - 01:09 AM
Helen 22 Feb 20 - 05:06 PM
Steve Shaw 22 Feb 20 - 04:32 PM
keberoxu 22 Feb 20 - 04:21 PM
Jeri 22 Feb 20 - 04:18 PM
Senoufou 22 Feb 20 - 03:52 PM
Helen 22 Feb 20 - 03:09 PM
keberoxu 21 Feb 20 - 07:58 PM
Steve Shaw 21 Feb 20 - 05:40 PM
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:






Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: keberoxu
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 06:26 PM

... there are people all over the civilized world
feeling powerless right about now ...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: mg
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 08:53 PM

No. I meant blessed in the sense that people look around for a group they can be prejudiced against with social approval. Once social approval deteriorates they will look for another group. It is how some get their jollies.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: keberoxu
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 07:14 PM

Sorry, mg, but I have a question about a recent post of yours
because one word looks like it was 'corrected' by the spell-checker
to something that has no sense.
I'm looking at one of your 10 March posts, the one at
2:20 AM (according to Mudcat time, which is Eastern USA time).
You are speaking of ancestry and ethnic origins,
and of racial / social prejudices.
That sentence near the end. Did you
actually mean to say:

"...we are very very prejudiced,
and it is socially BIASED ..."

because the post actually says
"and it is socially blessed."

Am I mistaken?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 07:13 PM

I had to sit with Hubby at the hospital for a few hours on Friday so I grabbed a book off the bookshelves. Dolores Claiborne, by Stephen King.

I've seen the movie, read the book years ago.

I'm only about a third of the way through it this time and then it dawned on me that it is about domestic violence or abuse, in one form or another. So of course I thought of this thread.

I bought the DVD of the movie a few years ago. I'm guessing I'll probably watch it again after I have finished reading the book.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: mg
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 08:47 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS5fDOiQJA0
father abraahm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS5fDOiQJA0

One of my strongest DNA ancestors is Marietta Deacons from New England..moved to Michigan. Totally touched by the civil war. First husband died, think her father and brother died in war. Someone was in Andersonville prison. She leads back to my Quaker ancestry. Her DNA is so strong..I don't know why others don't seem to have donated as much. Well, she must have been a very strong woman. I also have ancestors on the other side of the civil war. Anyway, thought of that song.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 08:07 PM

Three grains of corn is a sad song. Powerless. Yes.

The Banks of the Ohio reminds me of this:

Miss Otis Regrets - The Pogues & Kirsty MacColl


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: mg
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 05:32 PM

Pondering this subject further, I am thinking more and more. One song that seems just over the top, written by an overwrought Victorian songstress. Give me three grains of corn mother, about a boy in the potato famine asking for just three grains of corn to keep himself alive. Well, guess what..it is a true story. To the best of my memory, it was reported in a coroner's report in County Mayo..was somehow published in a USA paper almost immediately and a woman wrote the poem. I think there is an old tune and I think the link I will post the tune was probably written by the singer. Anyway, in the coroner's report, they emptied his pockets and found three grains of corn. So you just never know.

three grains of corn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sE37m8U7Eo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sE37m8U7Eo


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: mg
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 05:22 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MilfP2fVLhU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MilfP2fVLhU
banks of the ohio


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: mg
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 05:20 PM

obvious use of folk music to discuss tragedy..coal mines, shipwrecks, murder etc. all morning the banks of ohio has been going through my head..sung by Olivia Newton John..I don't know if it helps us cope, or understand or what. I do believe that commemorating people in ship disasters is an old tradition..likewise mining. I don't think we tend to write songs about car accidents, etc., although there was a run of them in the late 60s..but it is certainly one way to commemorate people..and when people discuss the uses of folk music..political, ecological etc.they rarely bring this up. But every person's story has a song lurking in it somewhere. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MilfP2fVLhU


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 02:31 PM

We just want to discuss this topic but a couple of people want to shut this discussion down for some reason.

Is domestic violence or abuse or suicide or human's inhumanity to humans so confronting to some people that not only do they not want to discuss it, but they don't want anyone else to discuss it?

What does it say about people who want to shut down this discussion? Does this invite speculation about those people's own proclivities towards hurting other people especially in light of the prolonged lengths that they will go to get their own way? The prolonged lengths they will go try to take legitimate power from other people?

Methinks some people doth protest too much.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 02:25 PM

I agree, pfr.

"useful" or "useless". :-D


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 02:06 PM

Girls versus Boys = there are no winners...!!!!!

Except for the ruling elites who depend on divide and rule strategies
for clinging onto their undeserved power.

By succumbing to distracting divisive stupid infighting between ourselves,
we will remain powerless useful idiots...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: keberoxu
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 10:41 AM

It's The Incredible Shrinking Thread, that's what it is.
Most threads, over time, get longer;
but this thread gets shorter every day ...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: mg
Date: 10 Mar 20 - 03:21 AM

guess who just followed me? Bill Gates. True. I won't say where though. I mean in a virtual way.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: mg
Date: 10 Mar 20 - 02:20 AM

I can not find my Irish father's ancestors at all. Potato famine of course. Not a one although second cousins wrote and said Bridget Quinn is your gggm. Someone else wrote and said Mary Fitzgerald is your gggm. But I think she was a generation before. Mother's family paternal side was very colonial virginia with all known abuses of the day. Very easy to trace.I could find 200 new ones a day. Descended..if I am correct..from all sorts of english, norwegian, scottish royalty. lots of norman. lots of stewarts. the usual sinclairs. ancient welsh. mother's maternal was dutch who intermarried with engish/early settlers of usa. People always guess I am Norwegian, which totally confuses me because I don't think I do at all..maybe Cornish...but my crone like hair is growing out and when I braid it I can see Norwegian. I don't see a speck of Irish although I am half. We have a lot of prejudice in the US...but not just the known about ones...we are very very prejudiced, and it is socially blessed, against southerners if we are northerners or from other countries.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 10 Mar 20 - 01:26 AM

pfr and mg,

Tracing your ancestors can be a confronting exercise. The saddest episodes of Who Do You Think You Are seem to be the ones where the holocaust or slavery are mentioned.

Yes, that defines powerlessness.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Mar 20 - 01:20 AM

I still haven't read back on this thread yet, and need to try get some sleep..
But ancestors..

I recently found an online photo of Jews being rounded up and herded from their home town in Europe, by n@zis..
The branch of my mother's family tree which was pruned mercilessly..

That faded blurry photo depicted powerlessness as clearly as anything...

Some of those unknown individuals, may very likely have been my distant family...???


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: mg
Date: 10 Mar 20 - 12:55 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVrTf5yOW5s&list=RDDVrTf5yOW5s&start_radio=1&t=62
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVrTf5yOW5s&list=RDDVrTf5yOW5s&start_radio=1&t=62

great story song by Rhiannon Gibbons

another one i cant find...mama o by a group called palamino. can't find it on google but i now it is on youtube. about looking for lost relatives after slavery "ended" in US.

Best song I heard last year.    My family story is entangled in slavery and I have cousins on ancestry from cameroon. first one I thought..cool. second one..what a coincidence. next couple of dozen or so I go what the hell and I figured it out. I should go to Cameroon and try to apologize. But also on my mother's side is a large Quaker population..many from Derbyshire England. Came either with William Penn or on next ship. made it to Derby and Bonsall ..so many daffodils.. there last year and hope to this year. From the Bonsall area. We really should talk about our ancestors more...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 11:54 PM

pfr, think of it like walking through a cow paddock. Watch out for cow pats but enjoy the walk.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 11:33 PM

I've never had or wanted power over any other folks..
The exception being, only if we willingly consent to treating each other as equals,
and share any meagre power we might have together,
for our mutual benefit...

I've never respected control freaks..

Now to decide if I think it's worth properly reading this thread...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 11:31 PM

Beautiful, mg. A quiet power.

Never underestimate quiet power.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: mg
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 11:08 PM

someone said something your song. this one has been going through my head. I like it best when a huge group sings it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=empGgV8Usvk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=empGgV8Usvk

I will look for a more vigorous version because it is a very powerful song. Never underestimate the power of song..was it Latvia? Estonia? that had the singing revolution? I wish I could write songs like this. I was at coffee once with Pat Humphries and others and she said what kind of song do you wish you could write..and I wanted to say exactly like you do.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 10:49 PM

Yesterday was the funeral for the woman and her three children. I mentioned them previously in this thread. The woman's partner and father of the children poured petrol (gas) on all of them and set them alight in the car they were sitting in. They had no chance of escape.

Domestic violence or abuse is a topic which we all need to be able to discuss.

Trying repeatedly to avoid discussing this topic and trying repeatedly to prevent others from discussing this topic just raises one great big red flag, in my opinion. And if these repeated attempts occur over a long period then the red flag gets bigger and bigger, especially if the people attempting to stifle the discussion resort to personal insults and aggression aimed at the people who do want to discuss the topic.

If a person is not interested in the topic and/or does not want to discuss it then that person should leave the thread and find a topic more relevant to his own interests.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 10:02 PM

The thread was a very bad conception in the first place, the initiator posting, seemingly randomly, as she did about a one-off tragedy that is unconnected to anyone here, a month after it happened, in a world full of outrages and tragedies, about which none of us could do anything. Even the mods could see no merit in it. Nothing to learn. Let's pluck something from the air that we can all get mournful about (as if there isn't enough of that around...). The people getting all precious about it now are some of the same people who indulged in the temporary levity provided by a string of egg jokes.

"A reminder about what this topic is about..."

Sure, Helen. Did you remind yourself that egg jokes had no place after all then, or are you still OK with that little diversion that you gleefully joined in with?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Mossback
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 08:15 PM

Save yourself the time & effort PFR - not worth it, its just modified Buzz Flies take 2 - or take 1 chronologically.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 07:40 PM

Oh.. I've not noticed this thread..
I wonder if it's worth trying to read it from scratch...???
I'll bookmark it now, anyway...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 05:32 PM

It's the grudge that keeps on giving, isn't it, Helen? I see that my neutrality fell on stony ground...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 05:19 PM

A reminder about what this topic is about. This was a comment early in the thread:

From: Senoufou - PM
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 09:36 AM

"I think we might be talking about empathy here. One feels enormous sadness at such events, but can do nothing about them.
I understand how an onlooker at the scene would be absolutely horrified and distressed, but their feeling of powerlessness would make it even worse.

"I wonder what the poor woman was going through in her life and in her mind to do such a thing. If only someone could have noticed that she wasn't coping, was being abused, was mentally unwell, or whatever,
timely intervention/help might have prevented the tragedy."


This is a mighty song which needs to be sung.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 05:03 PM

The mighty thing about a song which needs to be sung is that attempts to stifle the singing don't work.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 06:38 AM

To be prosaic, and determinedly neutral, the reason topics don't sink from view is because someone posts to them. Until yesterday no-one had posted to this one for almost two weeks. Another reason, one which I've never understood, is someone, quite often the topic instigator, posting "refresh." It's your baby I suppose, and you hate to see it sinking into the Mudcat melee...

Topics are like songs. If no-one posts, they sink from view. Songs exist only when someone sings them. The mighty thing about topics and songs is that you can always create a new one. That's by far the best way to "refresh."

Apologies for the cod philosophy...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: mg
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 02:43 AM

If anyone is in a fragile state, don't worry as much about the ones who are always mean (any gender against any other gender...I thought I made it clear but I oversimplified I guess). The ones who are always mean, you know what you are dealing with. Protect yourself from those who are one minute nice, the next nasty, the next it is your fault that you did something that made them retort. Those are the ones to watch out for and avoid and to just not let into your life until you are stronger than they are.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 02:05 AM

Beautifully said, keberoxu.

And I will add, that those of us who needed to be in this thread will continue despite whatever obstacles are thrown at us, to say what we wish to say, or in fact, what we need to say.

Happy International Women's Day week.

Helen Reddy - I Am Woman (1971)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 01:35 AM

There is a reason that this topic won't go away by itself.
And there are reasons that the members who are moved by this topic,
who take it personally, turn a deaf ear to the opinions
of those who find it distasteful
that a member, so moved, makes himself or herself vulnerable
and lets us see their vulnerable side, flaws, nastiness, and all.

Too bad for those who find our disclosures
"a little too smarmy for Mudcat."
Maybe it would be more accurate to say
" a little too smarmy for a very vocal percentage of members."
No, those of us with something to say/contribute
are not aiming for perfection in posting to a thread like this.
You all can criticize the OP, what words were used,
what words were not used, what format ought to be followed in opening a thread,
from here to doomsday.
If there is no one receptive to the OP or what it points to,
then the thread will die the death anyhow.

Otherwise, for a moment, look at this point of view:
those of us whose life experiences have taught us painful lessons about limitation, deprivation, denigration, and more,
those of us whose lives since have been about progress not perfection,
we don't resonate to being told how to post perfectly.
We respond to what is possible, not to what is perfect,
and possibility, on the other side of painful experience,
is what liberates us from expecting the worst of life and living.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: mg
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 04:49 AM

When I was younger I had a great amount, an unhealthy amount, of power.I have never felt powerless against humans, but certainly against natural forces (or wicked humans). But I have never felt OH I ACHE WITH EVERY FIBER OF MY BEING FOR YOUR APPROVAL. I feel get out of my way you little worm or I will step on you.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 03:59 PM

I know I have said this before, but I used to have anger issues, especially when I was younger. After a lot of soul searching I realised that I would let loose with my anger when I felt powerless.

After I had that eureka moment it became easier over the years to work out better strategies for dealing with the issues making me angry.

I also realised that I cry when I am angry, but it's because of the effort of trying to hold in my feelings. Still a link to powerlessness, except that I was then trying to redirect the anger into something more productive and useful.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 04:49 PM

Helen, I think you are on to something.
Actually your post reminds me of a particular thing.
Actress Samantha Morton (English) had a turbulent upbringing.
Neither of her parents could hold things together, and the children --
I forget how many, Samantha has a number of siblings -- ended up in care.

Years later Samantha made a film, "The Unloved," which aired on television. Her own story was the framework of the film.
Robert Carlyle was cast as the little girl's father, and for his acting
he won a Scottish BAFTA for Best Actor.

Almost the first thing you see in the film is the father,
asking this little girl for the money he had handed to her.
When it isn't in her pocket,
the father loses his temper and takes his belt to her.
Carlyle has since disclosed to interviewers that when he received the script, and read that scene,
it made him sick to his stomach --
he is himself a devoted father of three.
One of the other memorable things in the film is a lengthy scene
between the little girl and her mother;
the parents, in the film, are separated (also true in Samantha's life).
The mother is alcoholic, though, and thoroughly self-involved, which is one reason that the children get put into care.

In fact, in "The Unloved," the parent to whom the little girl feels the deepest devotion and affection
is that father, never mind that he is a hitter;
the child has more affection for him than for her indifferent mother.
And it is clear that the father honestly adores the child, when his temper is where it ought to be.
But the father is so completely marginalized that he takes out his helplessness on whoever is more powerless than he.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 03:40 PM

I just read this article. It makes sense to me that people who have been through catastrophe have a lot to deal with emotionally:

A new bushfire crisis is emerging as experts brace for an imminent surge in domestic violence

"For years experts have been studying the links between natural disasters and violence, with evidence suggesting events like earthquakes, hurricanes and bushfires can unmask or exacerbate domestic abuse, particularly against women, as a result of factors like trauma, financial hardship, unemployment and drug and alcohol use.

"In Australia, research conducted after Black Saturday in 2009 found there had been a reported increase in domestic abuse in bushfire-affected communities, with some women disclosing the crisis had triggered violence including in male partners who'd never before been abusive."

........
It's a long article, but worth reading because it raises a lot of complex issues.

In relation to this thread, here is a quote in the article from a survivor of domestic violence:

"Thinking through it now, the core of abuse is to do with power and control over another person, and when this monster of a bushfire came through, I think his feelings of control were threatened. He had no control, he'd lost all of his possessions, but the one thing he thought he could control was me, and our relationship."

My comment:

So that sense of powerlessness can be part of the trigger for domestic violence. Blokes are "supposed" to be in control, and be the strong ones, are "supposed" to look after their families in crisis, and the catastrophic disasters can make them question how well they are performing that perceived role, and they feel that they cannot just drop the manly facade and say, I feel bad.

If they are unable to deal with these feelings, and if the other blokes around them all seem to be holding themselves together (probably because they don't want to admit what they perceive as a weakness) then it is very difficult for any one man to say, "I feel like I failed as a man". This would be more difficult out in farming and rural communities, I think, because a lot of farming and rural blokes may not have ever questioned the traditional gender role stereotypes.

I know that this is a different perspective on the original post in this thread, but it still relates to a sense of powerlessness.

In the big picture, there are definitely no easy answers to the issues surrounding domestic related violence and abuse.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 02:37 PM

I happen to sympathize with those post to this thread
that are militant in a positive way:
militant about going to the facts and speaking the truth.

There are nay-sayers on this thread as well,
and the nay-saying sounds defensive, so not as strong.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Senoufou
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 02:36 PM

Pwahahaaaagh Iains! Adds more meaning to "Get thee behind me Satan" eh?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Iains
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 02:31 PM

I have heard mustard enemas give splendid results!
But I have also heard it is better to give than to receive.(Acts 20:35)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Senoufou
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 04:03 AM

Ah Helen, take no notice of Steve. I think he's constipated at the moment. I'll administer an enema and then he'll cheer up.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 01:09 AM

St. Helena is known by Catholics as the Patron Saint of the Cross and Intercessor for converts, divorce, difficult marriages, archeologists, fire, thunder, needle makers and empresses.

Appropriate for the topic of this thread, I think. Patron saint of divorce and difficult marriages.

Looks like I am a saint after all. :-D


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 22 Feb 20 - 05:06 PM

Just a statistical analysis of the posts. No hostility. Just putting forward some facts.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Feb 20 - 04:32 PM

No hostility from me. This is not real life here. I shrug. And I'm having a really pleasant evening with a couple of good mates, so I must be off. Hostility could well be in the eye of the exceptionally needy beholder...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: keberoxu
Date: 22 Feb 20 - 04:21 PM

I observe, from where I am watching,
two opposite positions that are becoming increasingly hostile
towards each other.
It is starting to get personal here,
and emotion is in the mix.

I find this alarming.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Feb 20 - 04:18 PM

Senoufou, I agree. It would be great if everyone tried to be kind. I don't understand the motivation of people who try to be snotty. They must be getting something out of it, but I don't understand what. Life must be hell for them. Maybe it's just about what sort of person they were raised to believe they should be.

I feel sorry for them, a little, but when they attack and ridicule someone who needs some sympathy, , it shows some fear on their part. At least they're letting everyone see that.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Senoufou
Date: 22 Feb 20 - 03:52 PM

A very comprehensive analysis Helen, and most interesting.
I often have a look at Mumsnet (although I don't ever post on there) and many of the threads about domestic/emotional/financial/physical abuse are heartbreaking.
One can never know what goes on behind closed doors, but people should always feel they can confide in someone, either a family member, a close friend, the Samaritans and even the lovely people here on Mudcat and other forums.
Isolation is probably one of the most common reasons for a person to break down mentally and be unable to get help.
It would be nice if everyone tried to be kind in life, and make people feel they can turn to one for assistance.
.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 22 Feb 20 - 03:09 PM

Jealousy, Possessiveness, Put Downs, Threats and Violence
signs of abusive relationships
It is not always easy to identify if you or someone you know is experiencing domestic violence or is in an abusive relationship. Violence and abuse are experienced in many different ways. Below are a few examples of abuse signs. These behaviours are typical of the jealousy, possessiveness, put downs, threats and violence that occur in domestic violence and abusive relationships. A woman may be experiencing abuse if a man in her life:
•        unfairly and regularly accuses her of flirting or being unfaithful
•        controls how she spends money
•        decides what she wears or eats
•        humiliates her in front of other people
•        monitors what she is doing, including reading her emails and text messages
•        discourages or prevents her from seeing friends and family
•        threatens to hurt her, the children or pets
•        physically assaults her (hitting, biting, slapping, kicking, pushing)
•        yells at her
•        threatens to use a weapon against her
•        constantly compares her with other people
•        constantly criticises her intelligence, mental health and appearance
•        prevents her from practicing her religion.

An analysis of contributions by a hypothetical person to a hypothetical thread.
Statistics.
Total posts by all contributors to the hypothetical thread = 55
Total posts by one person to the hypothetical thread = 15 (27%)
Total posts by that one person which specifically comment on the topic of the thread not counting a challenge posted immediately after the thread commenced = 2 (13% of own posts)
Total word count of that one person posting to thread = 600 which is approximately 10% of total word count of thread.
Total word count of that one person’s comments on the topic of the thread = 100 (16% of own posts, or 1.6% of all words in thread, not counting quotes of other people’s posts)
Two comments on the topic being:
* Don’t worry, be happy, we don’t need to focus on dark topics like this, just enjoy life.
* Why are we still talking about this topic. No one wants to talk about this topic. There is nothing we can do to change this issue so let’s not talk about it.
Posts by this person claiming to be under attack = 2 (13% of own posts)
Posts by this person making derisive comments about other people posting on the thread = 1
Posts claiming that s/he will not post again to this thread = 1 (being post #2 followed by 13 more posts)
Post exhibiting a classic sign of claiming s/he is not responsible for own actions = 1 "you made me post here again"
See What You Made Me Do
Posts agreeing with other people who have stated that there is no point discussing this topic = 2 (13% of own posts)

So, does this relate to the signs of domestic violence or abuse?

Hypothetically if a certain person attempts to:
humiliate a person or persons in front of other people
monitor what they are doing, including reading their posts
discourage or prevent them from communicating and conversing with friends and like minded people
abuse them
constantly compare them with other people
constantly criticise their intelligence and interests
prevent them from participating in group activities which fit their beliefs and life principles
and I will add, constantly demand apologies for perceived slights
and, have one rule for self and another rule for others
and, have a tendency to target persons of the other gender

then in my estimation there are enough signs for recognising what would be domestic abuse in a domestic situation.
Obviously, as members of an online forum we are not privy to the personal lives of other members of the forum, and I would certainly not presume to make unfounded assumptions on the personal lives of other members of this forum. That is not my intention at all.
So, as this is an online forum, then I would pose the question on whether the actions of this person constitutes the actions of a troll especially if this can be shown to be repeated behaviour over a significant period of time and within many, many other threads.
And is it just a coincidence that this hypothetical person in this hypothetical thread is placing obstacles in the path of others attempting to discuss the topic of domestic violence or abuse?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: keberoxu
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 07:58 PM

I think the division here is deeper than it appears,
and not strictly a gender thing.

Because I know of such people in real life, it is easy to believe
that such people are amongst the Mudcat membership:
people whose conversations are not limited to
debate or discussion,
but who also commiserate with each other.
This is not a gender question, is what I am trying to say.
Men are among us who need, as much as some women need,
to have people to talk to amongst whom
they can be vulnerable and open up.
By the same token,
people who are rational, intellectual, and impatient with
the empathy of others
can also be women, and Mudcat members.

Do I sympathize with Helen? Well, naturally!
But I respectfully suggest that this isn't so simple.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 05:40 PM

So, Helen, now that you've read the whole thread, etc., perhaps you'd care to retract this ridiculous and unfair comment:

"And before certain male members of the Mudcat community start to make flippant comments or to try to deflect the conversation away from this topic, take a moment to think about why those flippant or deflective comments were more often made by males and not females."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
Next Page

 


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 4 April 8:16 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.