mudcat.org: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafeawe

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)

keberoxu 23 Jan 20 - 06:08 PM
keberoxu 23 Jan 20 - 07:15 PM
Steve Shaw 23 Jan 20 - 07:53 PM
Joe Offer 23 Jan 20 - 11:05 PM
keberoxu 23 Jan 20 - 11:14 PM
Helen 23 Jan 20 - 11:38 PM
leeneia 24 Jan 20 - 12:35 AM
Senoufou 24 Jan 20 - 09:36 AM
Steve Shaw 24 Jan 20 - 12:56 PM
Helen 24 Jan 20 - 01:03 PM
Senoufou 24 Jan 20 - 01:08 PM
Steve Shaw 24 Jan 20 - 02:17 PM
Helen 24 Jan 20 - 02:17 PM
Helen 24 Jan 20 - 02:19 PM
Steve Shaw 24 Jan 20 - 02:23 PM
Helen 24 Jan 20 - 02:29 PM
Steve Shaw 24 Jan 20 - 05:44 PM
Senoufou 24 Jan 20 - 05:51 PM
Steve Shaw 24 Jan 20 - 06:13 PM
Helen 24 Jan 20 - 06:24 PM
Steve Shaw 24 Jan 20 - 06:37 PM
keberoxu 24 Jan 20 - 06:45 PM
Jack Campin 24 Jan 20 - 06:47 PM
Steve Shaw 24 Jan 20 - 07:49 PM
Joe Offer 24 Jan 20 - 08:33 PM
Jeri 24 Jan 20 - 08:50 PM
Steve Shaw 24 Jan 20 - 09:39 PM
Mr Red 25 Jan 20 - 04:16 AM
keberoxu 25 Jan 20 - 01:02 PM
Jeri 25 Jan 20 - 01:17 PM
keberoxu 25 Jan 20 - 02:47 PM
Helen 25 Jan 20 - 05:50 PM
keberoxu 25 Jan 20 - 05:59 PM
Jeri 25 Jan 20 - 06:03 PM
Steve Shaw 25 Jan 20 - 06:20 PM
robomatic 25 Jan 20 - 06:39 PM
keberoxu 25 Jan 20 - 06:50 PM
Jack Campin 25 Jan 20 - 06:51 PM
robomatic 26 Jan 20 - 02:19 PM
robomatic 26 Jan 20 - 03:17 PM
keberoxu 26 Jan 20 - 03:27 PM
Steve Shaw 26 Jan 20 - 03:54 PM
keberoxu 26 Jan 20 - 04:18 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 26 Jan 20 - 05:53 PM
Steve Shaw 26 Jan 20 - 05:58 PM
Helen 21 Feb 20 - 03:26 AM
Steve Shaw 21 Feb 20 - 05:10 AM
Doug Chadwick 21 Feb 20 - 06:03 AM
Senoufou 21 Feb 20 - 06:05 AM
Steve Shaw 21 Feb 20 - 07:05 AM
keberoxu 21 Feb 20 - 03:19 PM
Helen 21 Feb 20 - 04:54 PM
Steve Shaw 21 Feb 20 - 05:40 PM
keberoxu 21 Feb 20 - 07:58 PM
Helen 22 Feb 20 - 03:09 PM
Senoufou 22 Feb 20 - 03:52 PM
Jeri 22 Feb 20 - 04:18 PM
keberoxu 22 Feb 20 - 04:21 PM
Steve Shaw 22 Feb 20 - 04:32 PM
Helen 22 Feb 20 - 05:06 PM
Helen 23 Feb 20 - 01:09 AM
Senoufou 23 Feb 20 - 04:03 AM
Iains 23 Feb 20 - 02:31 PM
Senoufou 23 Feb 20 - 02:36 PM
keberoxu 23 Feb 20 - 02:37 PM
Helen 23 Feb 20 - 03:40 PM
keberoxu 23 Feb 20 - 04:49 PM
Helen 25 Feb 20 - 03:59 PM
mg 08 Mar 20 - 04:49 AM
keberoxu 09 Mar 20 - 01:35 AM
Helen 09 Mar 20 - 02:05 AM
mg 09 Mar 20 - 02:43 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Mar 20 - 06:38 AM
Helen 09 Mar 20 - 05:03 PM
Helen 09 Mar 20 - 05:19 PM
Steve Shaw 09 Mar 20 - 05:32 PM
punkfolkrocker 09 Mar 20 - 07:40 PM
Mossback 09 Mar 20 - 08:15 PM
Steve Shaw 09 Mar 20 - 10:02 PM
Helen 09 Mar 20 - 10:49 PM
mg 09 Mar 20 - 11:08 PM
Helen 09 Mar 20 - 11:31 PM
punkfolkrocker 09 Mar 20 - 11:33 PM
Helen 09 Mar 20 - 11:54 PM
mg 10 Mar 20 - 12:55 AM
punkfolkrocker 10 Mar 20 - 01:20 AM
Helen 10 Mar 20 - 01:26 AM
mg 10 Mar 20 - 02:20 AM
mg 10 Mar 20 - 03:21 AM
keberoxu 11 Mar 20 - 10:41 AM
punkfolkrocker 11 Mar 20 - 02:06 PM
Helen 11 Mar 20 - 02:25 PM
Helen 11 Mar 20 - 02:31 PM
mg 11 Mar 20 - 05:20 PM
mg 11 Mar 20 - 05:22 PM
mg 11 Mar 20 - 05:32 PM
Helen 11 Mar 20 - 08:07 PM
mg 11 Mar 20 - 08:47 PM
Helen 14 Mar 20 - 07:13 PM
keberoxu 14 Mar 20 - 07:14 PM
mg 14 Mar 20 - 08:53 PM
keberoxu 16 Mar 20 - 06:26 PM
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:









Subject: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 06:08 PM

This one is meant to be serious,
because of something that happened on Christmas Day.
No surprise, of course,
if a post appears that is an attempt to deflate this thread;
but, meant to be serious.

Boston, Massachusetts witnessed a Christmas Day tragedy
and if you were near here and had access to mass media at the time,
you know the story I mean.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 07:15 PM

In mass media terms, this story is recent enough
that it is easy to find multiple versions of reports.

I looked long and hard at those details embedded in the reports
concerning witnesses and first responders.

There is a bus stop, if not a bus station, close to the parking garage,
from the high roof of which the tragedy played out.
I found an account that one of Boston's MBTA buses had just pulled in; the poor bus driver parked the bus, leaped out of the bus,
and ran over to the sidewalk below the garage.
By then at least one child was already on the pavement, dying.

Photographs can be found of
Boston Police Commissioner William Gross (pronounced grawss by the way),
in civilian clothes (it was Christmas Day),
with one hand covering his mouth
as he stands by the security guards,
looking over the sidewalk scene.

Then there were the first responders who had to take in the three deaths.
And this is what I indicate -- meant to indicate --
by "powerless,"
the people who would have done anything to help
but it was too late.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 07:53 PM

Why are you posting this here in this vein?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 11:05 PM

Yeah, it's probably more suited for Facebook, dontchathink? Maybe a little too smarmy for Mudcat.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 11:14 PM

Separated by a common language, are we?

I don't speak Facebook.
I don't do Facebook.
I believe I know what smarmy means.
I don't know what the questions mean.

Are you asking me
to come out from behind the story in the news
and talk about my feelings,
so as to make this
"one of those stupid navel-gazing threads" ?
Because that can be arranged.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 11:38 PM

I don't understand why there appears to be an issue with this post. How different is it to the Australian bushfires thread? It's a tragedy close to the home of one or a few Mudcatters.

I was going to post here and ask why Steve Shaw needed to ask the question he did without making any explanation about his reasoning behind the question and without contributing to the discussion or topic of the thread.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: leeneia
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 12:35 AM

You're right, keb. That's how I feel - powerless. The electoral districts in my state are skewed so that right-wing country folk can vote their reps into state government. They then pass lax gun-control laws so that drugged-dazed felons in the cities can buy automatic weapons on the street and shoot up whoever they choose.

Yes, I feel powerless.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Senoufou
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 09:36 AM

I think we might be talking about empathy here. One feels enormous sadness at such events, but can do nothing about them.
I understand how an onlooker at the scene would be absolutely horrified and distressed, but their feeling of powerlessness would make it even worse.
I wonder what the poor woman was going through in her life and in her mind to do such a thing. If only someone could have noticed that she wasn't coping, was being abused, was mentally unwell, or whatever,
timely intervention/help might have prevented the tragedy.
I'm not on Facebook either keberoxu, and I actually think this is a very good topic for us to consider and discuss.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 12:56 PM

I simply asked a question of a person who has form when it comes to heart-on-sleeve, that's all. Nothing wrong with a bit of that, sometimes. I don't have issues with discussing individual tragedies. I'd point out out that we do live in a world in which there are thousands of outrages involving the deaths of children all over the world every year, many perpetrated directly or indirectly as a consequence of actions by western nations. This one is a month old. In the intervening month, thousands of children have died who shouldn't have died. We could be talking about how we get back the power to do something about it. But fire away. That's my last post on this topic, and I only responded now because I appear to be under attack.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 01:03 PM

I'm not on Facebook either. I like clear, calm, rational, analytical and compassionate discussions based on respect and integrity. That's why I come to Mudcat.

I agree with you Senoufou: that sense of powerlessness relating to empathy and also the overwhelming wish to turn back time so that the person's grave situation could be recognised and helped in some way.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Senoufou
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 01:08 PM

Do you know Steve, as I get older (and older!) I'm starting to feel exactly as you point out. So many millions of needless deaths, terrible suffering, anguish and pain all over the world. It's overwhelming at times, an enormous Vale of Tears, and not being immensely rich I can do very little to help.
Therefore, one can only do tiny things for one or two people. It's all I can manage, and I often feel very powerless.

I do hope you didn't feel attacked by me?

We lost our last cat just before Christmas, and the grief was almost beyond bearing. One could point out that one little cat is nothing compared to the vast numbers of suffering/dying people the world over, and I agree. But it's all relative isn't it? And if that poor lady in the incident referred to by keberoxu had been helped in perhaps just small ways, this may not have happened.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 02:17 PM

No, it wasn't you. Grrr, you made me post here again! Below-the-line can be a challenging place at times, as I know only too well. Even in the joke thread occasionally...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 02:17 PM

Is heart-on-sleeve a bad thing? :-D

A few years ago I drove home from work and turned the corner into my street to see a large number of ambulances and police cars. A young high school woman had committed suicide. Even now the people who knew her ask themselves how they could have helped her, how they could have recognised her situation, whether they could have changed the outcome in a positive way, etc, etc. I'll remember that day very vividly for the rest of my life, even though I had only met her a few times.

As I turned the corner, I was listening to my car stereo with a Vin Garbutt song playing. The chorus of the song had the young woman's name in it. I didn't realise that until after I found out the reason for the emergency vehicles.

The problem with empathy, wearing our hearts on our sleeves, can be knowing when to disconnect and protect our own well being. We can still care, we can still show empathy and try to look out for other people, but we will be no use if we are a mess ourselves.

In Australia, there is a project called RU OK aimed at being aware of other people around us who may be not feeling OK or may even be considering suicide.

Senoufou, in the last 18 months three of our old cats have passed. It is never easy, and some people don't understand how upsetting it is to lose a close companion just because it is an animal and not a human, but cats and dogs show unconditional love if they are treated well. That's a valuable experience in life.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 02:19 PM

I'm guessing it was me, asking you a question about the question you asked. :-)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 02:23 PM

Un oeuf said (see joke thread)...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 02:29 PM

No egg on our faces then, Steve?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 05:44 PM

Egg jokes are never what they're cracked up to be. In fact, I'm thinking of shelling out for a new yolk book. Omeletting you take the thread on from here...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Senoufou
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 05:51 PM

Hehe, I think you poached those gags from a kiddies' comic Steve!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 06:13 PM

I'm desperately trying to avoid jokes about getting laid...far too old for that kind of gag...You can beat an egg but you can't beat a good... Stoppit, Steve...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 06:24 PM

Q: Waiter, are these eggs fresh?
A: Don't ask me, I just laid the table.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 06:37 PM

Heheh. Sorry, keb...maybe we should stop there...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: keberoxu
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 06:45 PM

Letting off steam, a safety valve -- a perfectly healthy thing to do.
And humo[u]r is a better way than most to do it.

"Form": I have something on my record?
you have no idea ...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Jack Campin
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 06:47 PM

I don't see a productive line of discussion. Infanticide, suicide and infanticide/suicide are all common but there is no useful generalization you can make about them. I got a story from Texas in my FB feed this morning about a mother addicted to amphetamine who has smothered her three children. There was a Scottish case a few years ago of a wonan who murdered her young son for equally unknowable reasons.

When people die of capitalism - despair and destitution - you can say, yes there were things that could have been done, and learn something. But suicide and infanticide are end results and there's nothing there to analyze.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 07:49 PM

I get that, Jack, but there's nowt wrong with adding a little layer of human subjectivity. Yeah, not a lot to analyse. Which is why I asked the question in post three....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 08:33 PM

We've been through this before at Mudcat, and it's something that makes me nervous. Tragedy happens everywhere, and the impact of it gets cheapened when it's reported en masse on a variety of Websites. We've had very nice people here in the past who wanted us to grieve over a new tragedy twice a day. It got old very fast.

If there's an issue to discuss, that's a good thing. Bring it up and explain the question you want to discuss, and have an idea ahead of time where you want to go with the discussion. Looking at the first two posts in this thread, it's just another sad thing that happened - nothing that can lead to a productive discussion.

There's plenty of sadness that happens in our world, far more than we can deal with. Repeating it in volume serves no purpose - it cheapens it. If you want to discuss something, make sure it's discussable. Otherwise, it's just moving the air around.

-Joe-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Jeri
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 08:50 PM

My objection is that it's just parroting news. It's not *discussing* anything, just sticking posters up for people to get upset about. But I'm used to it enough that I can usually ignore it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 09:39 PM

That's exactly it. That's what I think I meant...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Mr Red
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 04:16 AM

Any (wo)man's death saddens me, but so does a burgeoning population. The latter will lead to many more deaths, slowly and almost imperceptibly, (but not to science). And far away, so that's OK?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 01:02 PM

It has dawned on me that my years of living in New Mexico
have left me with a trigger in the psychological sense.
And that the 2019 Christmas tragedy triggered it.
It dates from about 1992, and it made national headlines;
I was an Albuquerque resident at the time.

Los Angeles Times: The Power of Grief

At the time, there was positively no escape from the consequences of this fatal collision.
What you don't get from this report, as long ago as it was,
is that the story lasted a long, long time in the media.
If I recall right,
the defendant, who is still alive,
went to trial for the incident THREE TIMES:
hung jury, change of venue, double jeopardy, you name it, it happened.

To shorten the long story, the defendant served time in the penitentiary, but not the whole time of the sentence.
2009, Albuquerque: He was released on parole and has since kept the lowest possible profile.

Here is how the relatives of those killed in the collision
deal with the Christmas holiday twenty years on.

And here is the defendant's son and namesake today.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 01:17 PM

Here is a whole bunch of cases, if anyone is looking for other things to be upset by. I mean, if you don't have anything else going on...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 02:47 PM

There is a guideline for not speaking of certain procedures.
So I will not speak of the procedure, not at all.

While waiting for the inevitable, however, a reflection.
One reason that the posts on this thread have followed the course they have,
is a consequence of addressing a topic from a certain direction.

The results might have been very different
if the same topic had been approached from the reverse.
This was explained to me, patiently and non-judgmentally,
by somebody who knows me unusually well,
and who knows how to make suggestions from a place of compassion.
(I really really miss this person right now.)

"You do everything backwards," this person told me cheerfully,
explaining that most other people
approach a situation from the opposite place that I do.
And this gave me the detachment -- and humor --
needed to look at the problem from a fresh perspective.

Using the OP and my succeeding posts as an example.
The facts and the data are presented first,
from sources with some verification in place.
Then there are remarks on how two situations are related.
There is my admission that a trigger in my psychological makeup, from my past,
links the two situations in my emotions and thoughts.
I comment on the survivors and witnesses.
And I might say a word or two about how I feel.

The results might have been very different
had the OP focussed on my feelings, my emotions,
what it means to me,
and had later posts gradually introduce
the journalist links.

Or, the procedure might have been inevitable, regardless.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 05:50 PM

keberoxu, I think I understand what you intended from your OP and putting forward facts first is ok in my book. I think I would have done it in a similar way although I possibly would have indicated early in the thread why I thought it was worthwhile to open a discussion about that event, i.e. how reading about the event affected me, my feelings, emotions, and maybe a hint at any triggers relating to my own personal history, without having to reveal personal information on a public forum.

It's not easy talking in public about feelings and emotions, and some public events reported in the media can trigger strong feelings, emotions and deep seated responses.

I don't see any problem with the OP or the intentions of the thread as I read it. I don't see why other people have taken issue with it. But each to his own, I suppose.

One of my strong thoughts about the recent event your OP referred to is that I would be surprised if the issue of domestic violence or abuse in some form or other is not associated with the people involved in the event. There may be a hidden undercurrent to the story. We may never know the full story.

Domestic violence is a serious issue and sometimes it is not physical violence but psychological or emotional abuse instead, or sociopathic manipulation of a person's sense of her/himself.

That's the trigger which harks back to my own past experience, although I had no children - still have none - and was financially independent. I high-tailed it out of that relationship not too long after I put the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle together and realised what that poor-excuse-for-a-man was really up to.

You have my support in posting this topic.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 05:59 PM

There are not satisfactory words, besides Thank You,
to express my gratitude to those members
whose posts here are supportive and empathetic.
Your encouragement is something to cherish.

There are some obvious connections between
the two different stories about which I posted.

One occurred on Christmas Eve/midnight-ish;
the other, on Christmas Day in broad daylight.

In both cases, a mother and all of her children
were killed,
and the husband/father was left alone to deal with it all.

Perhaps that last is the most primal part of the trigger in my case.
The Christmas Eve deaths, after all,
had nothing to do with domestic tensions within a family --
it was a case of a head-on collision
with someone driving under the influence.

But an entire family, in each case,
was reduced to a bereft husband/father, the others all gone.

Helen,
you have MY support in broadening this topic to include your own experience,
and I thank you.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 06:03 PM

My main problem is that facts were NOT presented. It started off sounding (to me) like "Some bad shit happened on Christmas in Boston. The end."
No clue what you intended to talk about, or rather, what you intended other people to talk about.

I've said all I'll say on this, so my best to you.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 06:20 PM

Thing is, Helen, it isn't really a question of "taking issue with it." It's more a question of why, just maybe, it's better to look outwards and, well try to enjoy your life a bit more...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: robomatic
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 06:39 PM

I appreciate the sentiment. Just before reading this an acquaintance was relating how she was on a main street on her way here and a car was T-Boned at apeed to her left and sailed over her with car parts and car insides flying. Her two children were with her and they, she, and car were narrowly missed by the debris. She was trying to calm herself down and unpack it. I suggested she write down the events and date it, something I've done in similar circumstances.

As for the unsentimentals who merely wish to add irrelevant jokes and observations ('die of capitalism'?), now I know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 06:50 PM

The car sailed OVER the car that she was driving?
Darned right she must have felt powerless!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 06:51 PM

I had somebody specific in mind who died of capitalism last year (more precisely, Brexit, the London housing market and a pathological family who seem to estimate people purely in terms of financial success). I posted a brief mention of her suicide last year. There is nothing the least bit funny about that waste of her life.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 02:19 PM

I keep remembering your endorsement of RFK's assassination. Funny how you pick and choose what ISN'T funny.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 03:17 PM

And I STILL don't get what that has to do with Capitalism. To dive into misquotes of the NT for a moment, it isn't money that is the root of all evil. But the LOVE of money. That isn't the same thing as Capitalism.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: keberoxu
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 03:27 PM

… darn if I'm not feeling powerless again …
the dinosaurs are roaring at each other above my pigpen.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 03:54 PM

Pigeons are dinosaurs.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: keberoxu
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 04:18 PM

I quite agree about pigeons.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 05:53 PM

Except that dinosaurs don't crap all over the patio.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 05:58 PM

Oh yes they do. The scientific consensus is that birds are theropod dinosaurs...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 03:26 AM

A recent event in Australia has sparked a huge amount of debate on what can be done to stop domestic violence against women and sometimes children.

Can't we all agree killing women and children is wrong?

This is about that powerless feeling.

And before certain male members of the Mudcat community start to make flippant comments or to try to deflect the conversation away from this topic, take a moment to think about why those flippant or deflective comments were more often made by males and not females.

If this topic was about Donald Trump, or Brexit, or a myriad other topics which pop up in the BS/Breeze Shooting section below the line, then the topic would probably not be hijacked by people saying that the topic is not worth discussing. There may be angry denials or arguments about the topic, there may be people erroneously (or not) taking generic comments personally and going off in a huff but staying to make their personal perceived affronts heard, but the topic would continue to be discussed or argued until it reached a logical end.

The sense of powerlessness felt, not only by the victims of domestic violence, but also by witnesses to the events, or even members of the general public who are shocked to the core by the actions of some people, (statistically most often men) against members of their families, (most often women and sometimes also children) is a real emotional response. Sometimes a victim's sense of powerlessness becomes the trap which enables the perpetration of violence and possibly murder, because the victim believes that s/he can do nothing to break the cycle, or that no one will believe her/him, or the system is against her/him.

But that sense of powerless also pervades media coverage. Why does this still keep happening? What can we do to prevent this? What is the government doing about this? Why has major funding been cut to essential domestic violence support organisations?

It's all about powerlessness. The focus somehow needs to be shifted to facilitating a sense of power to take control of our lives when we are potentially in danger, and a lot of theat starts, in my opinion, by being able to recognise that danger, recognise the signs in time to avert disaster.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 05:10 AM

Well I've never read any flippant or dismissive comments from male or otherwise members of this forum about abuse of women and children, or read any remarks that it's not worth discussing. Of course it's a vitally important topic for public discussion, but your wrong-headed, preemptive bollocking of people who up to this point have done nothing wrong in this context is, well, let's say, a classic case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater (that isn't even dirty).


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 06:03 AM


And before certain male members of the Mudcat community start to make flippant comments or to try to deflect the conversation away from this topic, take a moment to think about why those flippant or deflective comments were more often made by males and not females.


Helen,
On 24 Jan 20, there was a series of posts which strayed from the subject with weak puns based on eggs. One of the posters was male and two were female, with more than one post coming from you. Admittedly, Steve started it but he also stopped it with an apology to the OP.

"Judge not, that ye not be judged"

DC


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Senoufou
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 06:05 AM

I think that killing anyone (sex or age regardless) is wrong. My father would have disagreed with me and loudly proclaimed that defending one's country and killing the enemy in wartime is necessary, but then he had been thoroughly indoctrinated by patriotism as he fought in WW2. He also supported the death penalty, which I have problems with too. Pacifism isn't simple.

Apparently there are more cases of women killing men/children than most people realise. I should imagine that most of these tragedies are the result of either mental illness, fear or despair.

I have noticed that the Meedja (folk messaging, commenting, mocking, criticising, trolling, bullying and so on) seems to be causing a lot of distress and depression, particularly among the young. There has been a lot of comment lately about mental health issues and support for those affected.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 07:05 AM

Yes, Doug, we strayed from the thread for a few posts but there was nothing disrespectful or dismissive said. The rather heavy dough was leavened just for a little while. Even the thread's initiator appreciated the brief injection of humour, if you look back. Nothing to apologise for there, and I repeat my oft-stated position that anyone is welcome to take the conversation anywhere they like in any thread of mine (because, once it's out here, it's not mine any more).


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: keberoxu
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 03:19 PM

Helen, thank you for what you have posted.
You have expressed your position in words more eloquent than I seem able to come up with myself.
And you have emphasized the legitimacy of the topic
with the link to the editorial
that confirms that many people
struggle against being overwhelmed emotionally
both by the polarized and polarizing debates,
and by the human tragedies that set off the debates in the first place.

Thank you for your continued effort to lay a foundation for
a way for the socially empathic to support each other
in spite of the questions, doubts, and incomprehension of others.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 04:54 PM

After just re-reading the whole thread (not for the first time) I think one aspect of incomprehension expressed initially by some people about this thread might be because they read the OP's first and second post and perhaps forgot to look at the title of the thread: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic).

In the context of the title, it was obvious to me what the first and second post were aimed at. The title explained the intention of the thread.

I suppose we could just put our heads in the sand and ignore other people's pain.

Or we could empathise with that pain and try to find ways to help other people, and especially to recognise that pain when those people could benefit from support.

The sense of powerlessness is usually, in my experience, felt after a tragic event of violence or suicide has occurred and I wonder why I didn't recognise the indications of the person's pain beforehand, and why I didn't or couldn't take action to try to help that person. I even feel this sense of powerlessness when I read about events in the media and didn't know the people involved, because I know how prevalent domestic abuse is in society and I know that we all could be doing more to try to turn this situation around.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 05:40 PM

So, Helen, now that you've read the whole thread, etc., perhaps you'd care to retract this ridiculous and unfair comment:

"And before certain male members of the Mudcat community start to make flippant comments or to try to deflect the conversation away from this topic, take a moment to think about why those flippant or deflective comments were more often made by males and not females."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: keberoxu
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 07:58 PM

I think the division here is deeper than it appears,
and not strictly a gender thing.

Because I know of such people in real life, it is easy to believe
that such people are amongst the Mudcat membership:
people whose conversations are not limited to
debate or discussion,
but who also commiserate with each other.
This is not a gender question, is what I am trying to say.
Men are among us who need, as much as some women need,
to have people to talk to amongst whom
they can be vulnerable and open up.
By the same token,
people who are rational, intellectual, and impatient with
the empathy of others
can also be women, and Mudcat members.

Do I sympathize with Helen? Well, naturally!
But I respectfully suggest that this isn't so simple.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 22 Feb 20 - 03:09 PM

Jealousy, Possessiveness, Put Downs, Threats and Violence
signs of abusive relationships
It is not always easy to identify if you or someone you know is experiencing domestic violence or is in an abusive relationship. Violence and abuse are experienced in many different ways. Below are a few examples of abuse signs. These behaviours are typical of the jealousy, possessiveness, put downs, threats and violence that occur in domestic violence and abusive relationships. A woman may be experiencing abuse if a man in her life:
•        unfairly and regularly accuses her of flirting or being unfaithful
•        controls how she spends money
•        decides what she wears or eats
•        humiliates her in front of other people
•        monitors what she is doing, including reading her emails and text messages
•        discourages or prevents her from seeing friends and family
•        threatens to hurt her, the children or pets
•        physically assaults her (hitting, biting, slapping, kicking, pushing)
•        yells at her
•        threatens to use a weapon against her
•        constantly compares her with other people
•        constantly criticises her intelligence, mental health and appearance
•        prevents her from practicing her religion.

An analysis of contributions by a hypothetical person to a hypothetical thread.
Statistics.
Total posts by all contributors to the hypothetical thread = 55
Total posts by one person to the hypothetical thread = 15 (27%)
Total posts by that one person which specifically comment on the topic of the thread not counting a challenge posted immediately after the thread commenced = 2 (13% of own posts)
Total word count of that one person posting to thread = 600 which is approximately 10% of total word count of thread.
Total word count of that one person’s comments on the topic of the thread = 100 (16% of own posts, or 1.6% of all words in thread, not counting quotes of other people’s posts)
Two comments on the topic being:
* Don’t worry, be happy, we don’t need to focus on dark topics like this, just enjoy life.
* Why are we still talking about this topic. No one wants to talk about this topic. There is nothing we can do to change this issue so let’s not talk about it.
Posts by this person claiming to be under attack = 2 (13% of own posts)
Posts by this person making derisive comments about other people posting on the thread = 1
Posts claiming that s/he will not post again to this thread = 1 (being post #2 followed by 13 more posts)
Post exhibiting a classic sign of claiming s/he is not responsible for own actions = 1 "you made me post here again"
See What You Made Me Do
Posts agreeing with other people who have stated that there is no point discussing this topic = 2 (13% of own posts)

So, does this relate to the signs of domestic violence or abuse?

Hypothetically if a certain person attempts to:
humiliate a person or persons in front of other people
monitor what they are doing, including reading their posts
discourage or prevent them from communicating and conversing with friends and like minded people
abuse them
constantly compare them with other people
constantly criticise their intelligence and interests
prevent them from participating in group activities which fit their beliefs and life principles
and I will add, constantly demand apologies for perceived slights
and, have one rule for self and another rule for others
and, have a tendency to target persons of the other gender

then in my estimation there are enough signs for recognising what would be domestic abuse in a domestic situation.
Obviously, as members of an online forum we are not privy to the personal lives of other members of the forum, and I would certainly not presume to make unfounded assumptions on the personal lives of other members of this forum. That is not my intention at all.
So, as this is an online forum, then I would pose the question on whether the actions of this person constitutes the actions of a troll especially if this can be shown to be repeated behaviour over a significant period of time and within many, many other threads.
And is it just a coincidence that this hypothetical person in this hypothetical thread is placing obstacles in the path of others attempting to discuss the topic of domestic violence or abuse?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Senoufou
Date: 22 Feb 20 - 03:52 PM

A very comprehensive analysis Helen, and most interesting.
I often have a look at Mumsnet (although I don't ever post on there) and many of the threads about domestic/emotional/financial/physical abuse are heartbreaking.
One can never know what goes on behind closed doors, but people should always feel they can confide in someone, either a family member, a close friend, the Samaritans and even the lovely people here on Mudcat and other forums.
Isolation is probably one of the most common reasons for a person to break down mentally and be unable to get help.
It would be nice if everyone tried to be kind in life, and make people feel they can turn to one for assistance.
.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Feb 20 - 04:18 PM

Senoufou, I agree. It would be great if everyone tried to be kind. I don't understand the motivation of people who try to be snotty. They must be getting something out of it, but I don't understand what. Life must be hell for them. Maybe it's just about what sort of person they were raised to believe they should be.

I feel sorry for them, a little, but when they attack and ridicule someone who needs some sympathy, , it shows some fear on their part. At least they're letting everyone see that.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: keberoxu
Date: 22 Feb 20 - 04:21 PM

I observe, from where I am watching,
two opposite positions that are becoming increasingly hostile
towards each other.
It is starting to get personal here,
and emotion is in the mix.

I find this alarming.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Feb 20 - 04:32 PM

No hostility from me. This is not real life here. I shrug. And I'm having a really pleasant evening with a couple of good mates, so I must be off. Hostility could well be in the eye of the exceptionally needy beholder...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 22 Feb 20 - 05:06 PM

Just a statistical analysis of the posts. No hostility. Just putting forward some facts.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 01:09 AM

St. Helena is known by Catholics as the Patron Saint of the Cross and Intercessor for converts, divorce, difficult marriages, archeologists, fire, thunder, needle makers and empresses.

Appropriate for the topic of this thread, I think. Patron saint of divorce and difficult marriages.

Looks like I am a saint after all. :-D


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Senoufou
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 04:03 AM

Ah Helen, take no notice of Steve. I think he's constipated at the moment. I'll administer an enema and then he'll cheer up.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Iains
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 02:31 PM

I have heard mustard enemas give splendid results!
But I have also heard it is better to give than to receive.(Acts 20:35)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Senoufou
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 02:36 PM

Pwahahaaaagh Iains! Adds more meaning to "Get thee behind me Satan" eh?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 02:37 PM

I happen to sympathize with those post to this thread
that are militant in a positive way:
militant about going to the facts and speaking the truth.

There are nay-sayers on this thread as well,
and the nay-saying sounds defensive, so not as strong.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 03:40 PM

I just read this article. It makes sense to me that people who have been through catastrophe have a lot to deal with emotionally:

A new bushfire crisis is emerging as experts brace for an imminent surge in domestic violence

"For years experts have been studying the links between natural disasters and violence, with evidence suggesting events like earthquakes, hurricanes and bushfires can unmask or exacerbate domestic abuse, particularly against women, as a result of factors like trauma, financial hardship, unemployment and drug and alcohol use.

"In Australia, research conducted after Black Saturday in 2009 found there had been a reported increase in domestic abuse in bushfire-affected communities, with some women disclosing the crisis had triggered violence including in male partners who'd never before been abusive."

........
It's a long article, but worth reading because it raises a lot of complex issues.

In relation to this thread, here is a quote in the article from a survivor of domestic violence:

"Thinking through it now, the core of abuse is to do with power and control over another person, and when this monster of a bushfire came through, I think his feelings of control were threatened. He had no control, he'd lost all of his possessions, but the one thing he thought he could control was me, and our relationship."

My comment:

So that sense of powerlessness can be part of the trigger for domestic violence. Blokes are "supposed" to be in control, and be the strong ones, are "supposed" to look after their families in crisis, and the catastrophic disasters can make them question how well they are performing that perceived role, and they feel that they cannot just drop the manly facade and say, I feel bad.

If they are unable to deal with these feelings, and if the other blokes around them all seem to be holding themselves together (probably because they don't want to admit what they perceive as a weakness) then it is very difficult for any one man to say, "I feel like I failed as a man". This would be more difficult out in farming and rural communities, I think, because a lot of farming and rural blokes may not have ever questioned the traditional gender role stereotypes.

I know that this is a different perspective on the original post in this thread, but it still relates to a sense of powerlessness.

In the big picture, there are definitely no easy answers to the issues surrounding domestic related violence and abuse.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 04:49 PM

Helen, I think you are on to something.
Actually your post reminds me of a particular thing.
Actress Samantha Morton (English) had a turbulent upbringing.
Neither of her parents could hold things together, and the children --
I forget how many, Samantha has a number of siblings -- ended up in care.

Years later Samantha made a film, "The Unloved," which aired on television. Her own story was the framework of the film.
Robert Carlyle was cast as the little girl's father, and for his acting
he won a Scottish BAFTA for Best Actor.

Almost the first thing you see in the film is the father,
asking this little girl for the money he had handed to her.
When it isn't in her pocket,
the father loses his temper and takes his belt to her.
Carlyle has since disclosed to interviewers that when he received the script, and read that scene,
it made him sick to his stomach --
he is himself a devoted father of three.
One of the other memorable things in the film is a lengthy scene
between the little girl and her mother;
the parents, in the film, are separated (also true in Samantha's life).
The mother is alcoholic, though, and thoroughly self-involved, which is one reason that the children get put into care.

In fact, in "The Unloved," the parent to whom the little girl feels the deepest devotion and affection
is that father, never mind that he is a hitter;
the child has more affection for him than for her indifferent mother.
And it is clear that the father honestly adores the child, when his temper is where it ought to be.
But the father is so completely marginalized that he takes out his helplessness on whoever is more powerless than he.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 03:59 PM

I know I have said this before, but I used to have anger issues, especially when I was younger. After a lot of soul searching I realised that I would let loose with my anger when I felt powerless.

After I had that eureka moment it became easier over the years to work out better strategies for dealing with the issues making me angry.

I also realised that I cry when I am angry, but it's because of the effort of trying to hold in my feelings. Still a link to powerlessness, except that I was then trying to redirect the anger into something more productive and useful.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: mg
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 04:49 AM

When I was younger I had a great amount, an unhealthy amount, of power.I have never felt powerless against humans, but certainly against natural forces (or wicked humans). But I have never felt OH I ACHE WITH EVERY FIBER OF MY BEING FOR YOUR APPROVAL. I feel get out of my way you little worm or I will step on you.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 01:35 AM

There is a reason that this topic won't go away by itself.
And there are reasons that the members who are moved by this topic,
who take it personally, turn a deaf ear to the opinions
of those who find it distasteful
that a member, so moved, makes himself or herself vulnerable
and lets us see their vulnerable side, flaws, nastiness, and all.

Too bad for those who find our disclosures
"a little too smarmy for Mudcat."
Maybe it would be more accurate to say
" a little too smarmy for a very vocal percentage of members."
No, those of us with something to say/contribute
are not aiming for perfection in posting to a thread like this.
You all can criticize the OP, what words were used,
what words were not used, what format ought to be followed in opening a thread,
from here to doomsday.
If there is no one receptive to the OP or what it points to,
then the thread will die the death anyhow.

Otherwise, for a moment, look at this point of view:
those of us whose life experiences have taught us painful lessons about limitation, deprivation, denigration, and more,
those of us whose lives since have been about progress not perfection,
we don't resonate to being told how to post perfectly.
We respond to what is possible, not to what is perfect,
and possibility, on the other side of painful experience,
is what liberates us from expecting the worst of life and living.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 02:05 AM

Beautifully said, keberoxu.

And I will add, that those of us who needed to be in this thread will continue despite whatever obstacles are thrown at us, to say what we wish to say, or in fact, what we need to say.

Happy International Women's Day week.

Helen Reddy - I Am Woman (1971)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: mg
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 02:43 AM

If anyone is in a fragile state, don't worry as much about the ones who are always mean (any gender against any other gender...I thought I made it clear but I oversimplified I guess). The ones who are always mean, you know what you are dealing with. Protect yourself from those who are one minute nice, the next nasty, the next it is your fault that you did something that made them retort. Those are the ones to watch out for and avoid and to just not let into your life until you are stronger than they are.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 06:38 AM

To be prosaic, and determinedly neutral, the reason topics don't sink from view is because someone posts to them. Until yesterday no-one had posted to this one for almost two weeks. Another reason, one which I've never understood, is someone, quite often the topic instigator, posting "refresh." It's your baby I suppose, and you hate to see it sinking into the Mudcat melee...

Topics are like songs. If no-one posts, they sink from view. Songs exist only when someone sings them. The mighty thing about topics and songs is that you can always create a new one. That's by far the best way to "refresh."

Apologies for the cod philosophy...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 05:03 PM

The mighty thing about a song which needs to be sung is that attempts to stifle the singing don't work.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 05:19 PM

A reminder about what this topic is about. This was a comment early in the thread:

From: Senoufou - PM
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 09:36 AM

"I think we might be talking about empathy here. One feels enormous sadness at such events, but can do nothing about them.
I understand how an onlooker at the scene would be absolutely horrified and distressed, but their feeling of powerlessness would make it even worse.

"I wonder what the poor woman was going through in her life and in her mind to do such a thing. If only someone could have noticed that she wasn't coping, was being abused, was mentally unwell, or whatever,
timely intervention/help might have prevented the tragedy."


This is a mighty song which needs to be sung.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 05:32 PM

It's the grudge that keeps on giving, isn't it, Helen? I see that my neutrality fell on stony ground...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 07:40 PM

Oh.. I've not noticed this thread..
I wonder if it's worth trying to read it from scratch...???
I'll bookmark it now, anyway...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Mossback
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 08:15 PM

Save yourself the time & effort PFR - not worth it, its just modified Buzz Flies take 2 - or take 1 chronologically.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 10:02 PM

The thread was a very bad conception in the first place, the initiator posting, seemingly randomly, as she did about a one-off tragedy that is unconnected to anyone here, a month after it happened, in a world full of outrages and tragedies, about which none of us could do anything. Even the mods could see no merit in it. Nothing to learn. Let's pluck something from the air that we can all get mournful about (as if there isn't enough of that around...). The people getting all precious about it now are some of the same people who indulged in the temporary levity provided by a string of egg jokes.

"A reminder about what this topic is about..."

Sure, Helen. Did you remind yourself that egg jokes had no place after all then, or are you still OK with that little diversion that you gleefully joined in with?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 10:49 PM

Yesterday was the funeral for the woman and her three children. I mentioned them previously in this thread. The woman's partner and father of the children poured petrol (gas) on all of them and set them alight in the car they were sitting in. They had no chance of escape.

Domestic violence or abuse is a topic which we all need to be able to discuss.

Trying repeatedly to avoid discussing this topic and trying repeatedly to prevent others from discussing this topic just raises one great big red flag, in my opinion. And if these repeated attempts occur over a long period then the red flag gets bigger and bigger, especially if the people attempting to stifle the discussion resort to personal insults and aggression aimed at the people who do want to discuss the topic.

If a person is not interested in the topic and/or does not want to discuss it then that person should leave the thread and find a topic more relevant to his own interests.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: mg
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 11:08 PM

someone said something your song. this one has been going through my head. I like it best when a huge group sings it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=empGgV8Usvk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=empGgV8Usvk

I will look for a more vigorous version because it is a very powerful song. Never underestimate the power of song..was it Latvia? Estonia? that had the singing revolution? I wish I could write songs like this. I was at coffee once with Pat Humphries and others and she said what kind of song do you wish you could write..and I wanted to say exactly like you do.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 11:31 PM

Beautiful, mg. A quiet power.

Never underestimate quiet power.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 11:33 PM

I've never had or wanted power over any other folks..
The exception being, only if we willingly consent to treating each other as equals,
and share any meagre power we might have together,
for our mutual benefit...

I've never respected control freaks..

Now to decide if I think it's worth properly reading this thread...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 11:54 PM

pfr, think of it like walking through a cow paddock. Watch out for cow pats but enjoy the walk.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: mg
Date: 10 Mar 20 - 12:55 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVrTf5yOW5s&list=RDDVrTf5yOW5s&start_radio=1&t=62
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVrTf5yOW5s&list=RDDVrTf5yOW5s&start_radio=1&t=62

great story song by Rhiannon Gibbons

another one i cant find...mama o by a group called palamino. can't find it on google but i now it is on youtube. about looking for lost relatives after slavery "ended" in US.

Best song I heard last year.    My family story is entangled in slavery and I have cousins on ancestry from cameroon. first one I thought..cool. second one..what a coincidence. next couple of dozen or so I go what the hell and I figured it out. I should go to Cameroon and try to apologize. But also on my mother's side is a large Quaker population..many from Derbyshire England. Came either with William Penn or on next ship. made it to Derby and Bonsall ..so many daffodils.. there last year and hope to this year. From the Bonsall area. We really should talk about our ancestors more...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Mar 20 - 01:20 AM

I still haven't read back on this thread yet, and need to try get some sleep..
But ancestors..

I recently found an online photo of Jews being rounded up and herded from their home town in Europe, by n@zis..
The branch of my mother's family tree which was pruned mercilessly..

That faded blurry photo depicted powerlessness as clearly as anything...

Some of those unknown individuals, may very likely have been my distant family...???


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 10 Mar 20 - 01:26 AM

pfr and mg,

Tracing your ancestors can be a confronting exercise. The saddest episodes of Who Do You Think You Are seem to be the ones where the holocaust or slavery are mentioned.

Yes, that defines powerlessness.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: mg
Date: 10 Mar 20 - 02:20 AM

I can not find my Irish father's ancestors at all. Potato famine of course. Not a one although second cousins wrote and said Bridget Quinn is your gggm. Someone else wrote and said Mary Fitzgerald is your gggm. But I think she was a generation before. Mother's family paternal side was very colonial virginia with all known abuses of the day. Very easy to trace.I could find 200 new ones a day. Descended..if I am correct..from all sorts of english, norwegian, scottish royalty. lots of norman. lots of stewarts. the usual sinclairs. ancient welsh. mother's maternal was dutch who intermarried with engish/early settlers of usa. People always guess I am Norwegian, which totally confuses me because I don't think I do at all..maybe Cornish...but my crone like hair is growing out and when I braid it I can see Norwegian. I don't see a speck of Irish although I am half. We have a lot of prejudice in the US...but not just the known about ones...we are very very prejudiced, and it is socially blessed, against southerners if we are northerners or from other countries.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: mg
Date: 10 Mar 20 - 03:21 AM

guess who just followed me? Bill Gates. True. I won't say where though. I mean in a virtual way.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: keberoxu
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 10:41 AM

It's The Incredible Shrinking Thread, that's what it is.
Most threads, over time, get longer;
but this thread gets shorter every day ...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 02:06 PM

Girls versus Boys = there are no winners...!!!!!

Except for the ruling elites who depend on divide and rule strategies
for clinging onto their undeserved power.

By succumbing to distracting divisive stupid infighting between ourselves,
we will remain powerless useful idiots...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 02:25 PM

I agree, pfr.

"useful" or "useless". :-D


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 02:31 PM

We just want to discuss this topic but a couple of people want to shut this discussion down for some reason.

Is domestic violence or abuse or suicide or human's inhumanity to humans so confronting to some people that not only do they not want to discuss it, but they don't want anyone else to discuss it?

What does it say about people who want to shut down this discussion? Does this invite speculation about those people's own proclivities towards hurting other people especially in light of the prolonged lengths that they will go to get their own way? The prolonged lengths they will go try to take legitimate power from other people?

Methinks some people doth protest too much.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: mg
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 05:20 PM

obvious use of folk music to discuss tragedy..coal mines, shipwrecks, murder etc. all morning the banks of ohio has been going through my head..sung by Olivia Newton John..I don't know if it helps us cope, or understand or what. I do believe that commemorating people in ship disasters is an old tradition..likewise mining. I don't think we tend to write songs about car accidents, etc., although there was a run of them in the late 60s..but it is certainly one way to commemorate people..and when people discuss the uses of folk music..political, ecological etc.they rarely bring this up. But every person's story has a song lurking in it somewhere. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MilfP2fVLhU


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: mg
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 05:22 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MilfP2fVLhU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MilfP2fVLhU
banks of the ohio


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: mg
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 05:32 PM

Pondering this subject further, I am thinking more and more. One song that seems just over the top, written by an overwrought Victorian songstress. Give me three grains of corn mother, about a boy in the potato famine asking for just three grains of corn to keep himself alive. Well, guess what..it is a true story. To the best of my memory, it was reported in a coroner's report in County Mayo..was somehow published in a USA paper almost immediately and a woman wrote the poem. I think there is an old tune and I think the link I will post the tune was probably written by the singer. Anyway, in the coroner's report, they emptied his pockets and found three grains of corn. So you just never know.

three grains of corn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sE37m8U7Eo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sE37m8U7Eo


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 08:07 PM

Three grains of corn is a sad song. Powerless. Yes.

The Banks of the Ohio reminds me of this:

Miss Otis Regrets - The Pogues & Kirsty MacColl


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: mg
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 08:47 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS5fDOiQJA0
father abraahm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS5fDOiQJA0

One of my strongest DNA ancestors is Marietta Deacons from New England..moved to Michigan. Totally touched by the civil war. First husband died, think her father and brother died in war. Someone was in Andersonville prison. She leads back to my Quaker ancestry. Her DNA is so strong..I don't know why others don't seem to have donated as much. Well, she must have been a very strong woman. I also have ancestors on the other side of the civil war. Anyway, thought of that song.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: Helen
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 07:13 PM

I had to sit with Hubby at the hospital for a few hours on Friday so I grabbed a book off the bookshelves. Dolores Claiborne, by Stephen King.

I've seen the movie, read the book years ago.

I'm only about a third of the way through it this time and then it dawned on me that it is about domestic violence or abuse, in one form or another. So of course I thought of this thread.

I bought the DVD of the movie a few years ago. I'm guessing I'll probably watch it again after I have finished reading the book.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: keberoxu
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 07:14 PM

Sorry, mg, but I have a question about a recent post of yours
because one word looks like it was 'corrected' by the spell-checker
to something that has no sense.
I'm looking at one of your 10 March posts, the one at
2:20 AM (according to Mudcat time, which is Eastern USA time).
You are speaking of ancestry and ethnic origins,
and of racial / social prejudices.
That sentence near the end. Did you
actually mean to say:

"...we are very very prejudiced,
and it is socially BIASED ..."

because the post actually says
"and it is socially blessed."

Am I mistaken?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: mg
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 08:53 PM

No. I meant blessed in the sense that people look around for a group they can be prejudiced against with social approval. Once social approval deteriorates they will look for another group. It is how some get their jollies.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic)
From: keberoxu
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 06:26 PM

... there are people all over the civilized world
feeling powerless right about now ...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
 


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 31 March 11:04 PM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.