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Tech: Song decoding app - chords, tempo, etc..

punkfolkrocker 16 Dec 19 - 07:03 PM
GUEST,Ray 17 Dec 19 - 11:21 AM
punkfolkrocker 17 Dec 19 - 11:33 AM
Nick 17 Dec 19 - 12:52 PM
Nick 17 Dec 19 - 01:07 PM
punkfolkrocker 17 Dec 19 - 01:28 PM
leeneia 17 Dec 19 - 02:57 PM
punkfolkrocker 17 Dec 19 - 03:11 PM
GUEST,Jerry 18 Dec 19 - 03:55 AM
Long Firm Freddie 18 Dec 19 - 04:44 AM
Nick 18 Dec 19 - 02:55 PM
punkfolkrocker 18 Dec 19 - 03:06 PM
leeneia 19 Dec 19 - 12:54 PM
punkfolkrocker 10 Jan 20 - 12:18 PM
leeneia 11 Jan 20 - 01:21 PM
punkfolkrocker 11 Jan 20 - 01:46 PM
leeneia 13 Jan 20 - 01:49 PM
leeneia 13 Jan 20 - 01:50 PM
punkfolkrocker 13 Jan 20 - 02:04 PM
Richard Mellish 13 Jan 20 - 06:38 PM
Nick 13 Jan 20 - 07:55 PM
leeneia 13 Jan 20 - 09:06 PM
Nick 14 Jan 20 - 05:07 PM
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Subject: Tech: Song decoding app - chords, tempo, etc..
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 07:03 PM

I've been emailed about an introductory price offer £26.57 GBP
(includes 20% VAT £4.43 GBP)
on this new software
which might be of interest to some mudcatters...


https://decoda.app/


There's a promo video and downloadable Demo...


"DECODE ANY SONG IN SECONDS
deCoda can decode any song so you can learn to play it in minutes.
In seconds deCoda will tell you the key, tempo, chords where the verses and choruses are and more.

Using deCoda is as simple as adding your favourite song and letting deCoda help you figure it out.
Inspired and informed by those working in the music and recording industry,
deCoda offers features that make learning a song more effortless than ever.


zplane Profile

About
zplane is a research-focused company that provides state-of-the-art music processing/analysis technology and know-how
to the music industry.
Our passion is to combine our backgrounds, sound engineering, classical musical education...
"


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Subject: RE: Tech: Song decoding app - chords, tempo, etc..
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 17 Dec 19 - 11:21 AM

Pray that it works! Such things have been around for years but Iím not sure if theyíve got any better. A mate of mine; a keyboard player who used to design electronic devices for a living, tried one twenty years ago. You played a piece of music into it and it displayed the dots on screen which you could print out.

Trouble was that it translated every note and the slightest nuance into dots and the results were impossible to play.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Song decoding app - chords, tempo, etc..
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Dec 19 - 11:33 AM

The technology has improved considerably in the last couple of years.
This a respected software company,
so I'd be inclined to give it benefit of the doubt...

I'd guess results depend on the complexity of the music,
and audio quality of the recording being analysed and transcribed...???


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Subject: RE: Tech: Song decoding app - chords, tempo, etc..
From: Nick
Date: 17 Dec 19 - 12:52 PM

I have downloaded the demo version and given it a try. I thought I'd give it a toughish test. But it's the sort of thing that - if it worked - I would find useful. My ears are good enough to work out basic chord progressions without software help.

It's ok in the same way that Riff Station or others are that 'work out the chords' but it lacks nuance and isn't much help apart from fairly straightforward chord progressions. Once you get alternative bass notes (eg G/F, G/D etc) it doesn't get it right. And it won't spot extended chords very well - even maj7 or sus2 or sus4 or a minor 7th with a flat 5.

I imported a copy of a song we practiced yesterday that I happen to know exactly how I play it as I worked out my guitar part from scratch.

I'm capoed up two so G chords

So the intro I play is
x 10 9 7 0 x (G)
x 7 5 7 0 x (Em7)
5 x 5 5 5 5 (Am7)
x 5 4 5 0 0 (D13 no fifth or eleventh)

It returns G, omits the Em7, and then Am (misses the 7), D (misses the 13th)

Main I play (names are probably wrong)
3x443x Gmaj7
0xx455 Esus4
x3x032 Csus2add#11
320033 G
x3x332 C7b5sus2
G
2x220x F#m7 (no fifth) add 11
x21202 B7

It returns
G Em C G
C G
F#m Bm (probably my playing!)

So it would give someone a hint of the structure but none of what - to me - gives it its warmth and harmony.

The next bit I play is
xx2000 Em
1x003x G/F
32320x G9 (no fifth)
x32000 Cmaj7
12123x F7b5(add13)
12120x F7b5

And it chucks out Em Bb D G Bdim Fdim Em Bb C G etc

By all means download the demo and try the file for yourself I tried which is on dropbox. Knowing exactly what I play makes it a reasonable test I think. So I won't be buying as I have better tools available already.

I tried it with us singing teach Your Children which is a bog standard 4 chord song. Mostly it deals with it ok. What it doesn't deal with is if you play a bass run as it tries to interpret it as a chord.

So rather than G - C - G - D
It comes up with G - C - Bdim - G - D
and second time round G - C - Dm - G - D

Which is fine if you know what it's doing. If you don't and played it as a song believing it to be 'right' and without knowing what was going on you would be (I think) confused. If you know what is going on you don't need the software to work out how to play Teach Your Children!

Very clever though and it has some nice clever features like the ability to remove bits of the music etc and a piano roll etc But there are other things that do it better.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/e89g8t6go8agrn5/O%20Moon%20River.mp3?dl=0


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Subject: RE: Tech: Song decoding app - chords, tempo, etc..
From: Nick
Date: 17 Dec 19 - 01:07 PM

They do make good software. I have used https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/zplane-vielklang-2 with reasonable results some time back


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Subject: RE: Tech: Song decoding app - chords, tempo, etc..
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Dec 19 - 01:28 PM

Nick - that's seriously helpful.. cheers...

Personally, I don't have great need or justification..
but I am a sucker for a bargain...

I need to find out how long before the intro price offer expires,
and what the actual full price will be..

Early adopters might be getting a real good deal now,
with a view to a cheaper upgrade to improved version 2 when it arrives
in a year or two...???

That's my usual strategy to getting high quality music software at lowest prices...

To the best of my knowledge, some of the included features,
eg isolating instruments from a mixed track,
are currently only available in much more expensive software...???


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Subject: RE: Tech: Song decoding app - chords, tempo, etc..
From: leeneia
Date: 17 Dec 19 - 02:57 PM

I thought apps were for phones.

I transcribe interesting traditional music as sheet music, usually from a performance on YouTube. It would be nice to be told right away what the key and time signature are.

Come to think of it, the video is quite uninformative. How does it listen? i.e, what do I plug it into? What do I need to own to operate it?

Can it listen to a YouTube video and tell me what key and time the music is in? Must it be an mp3? or what?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Song decoding app - chords, tempo, etc..
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Dec 19 - 03:11 PM

Leeneia - the software developer has obviously overlooked older less techie folks
in their promotions for this program...

I'd expect fuller user demos and 'how to' tutorials on youtube in the coming days/weeks...

But in the mean time, the key concern is when does the promo offer price expire...???


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Subject: RE: Tech: Song decoding app - chords, tempo, etc..
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 03:55 AM

I would have dearly loved one of these apps when I was first starting out many years ago, when even digital tuners werenít available and you had to rely on pitch pipes or a trusty harmonica to tune to. Having waited all this time though, I find that after years of working it all out myself by trial and error, even having to decipher sheet music, I donít really need such help.
I know it sounds rather smug to say so, but Iím sure you become a much better musician as you develop a good ear for keys/pitch, tempo, chord progressions and a basic knowledge of music notation. If I can do it then Iím sure anyone can, if they just take the time and experiment, and the more you do it the easier it becomes.
However, thatís not as time consuming as it sounds, because the process of working out how a song is constructed is simultaneous with learning it, including the lyrics, for performing purposes. Itís also actually fun, but is that just me not getting out enough? But yes, some songs are just too complex to figure out, but then that probably means I shouldnít actually be attempting them just yet.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Song decoding app - chords, tempo, etc..
From: Long Firm Freddie
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 04:44 AM

PFR - The press release on Gearslutz.com says the reduced price offer holds until the end of January 2020.

LFF


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Subject: RE: Tech: Song decoding app - chords, tempo, etc..
From: Nick
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 02:55 PM

PFR >>Personally, I don't have great need or justification..
but I am a sucker for a bargain...

Do you by any chance have a wardrobe full of clothes you look silly in? Just a wild guess...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Song decoding app - chords, tempo, etc..
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 03:06 PM

Nick - nope.. but I do have multiple identical black T shirts, blue cotton shirts,
black or blue cotton trousers,
and black leather steel toe cap boots..

I wish trousers were optional, but society is a bit funny like that...
Cotton skirts would be far more comfy...

That's me all over, I seek the lowest sales prices on good utilitarian products...

.. or bargain sensible things that errmm.. might come in useful one day...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Song decoding app - chords, tempo, etc..
From: leeneia
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 12:54 PM

PFR, your wardrobe is much like my husband's. Colored t-shirts, cotton cowboy shirts, cotton trousers and steel-towed dress boots. We call them wellingtons, but you would not.

My guy's clothes are very similar to yours, just more colorful. I believe he is reacting to years of blue office shirts and khaki dress trousers.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Song decoding app - chords, tempo, etc..
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 12:18 PM

https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=640074


A positive user review,
and follow up forum thread posts..

Still under £25 for the moment...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Song decoding app - chords, tempo, etc..
From: leeneia
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 01:21 PM

Thanks for the link, punkie.

Q: He wrote "You simply drop audio music file onto the interface". What kind of music file? MP3? anything else?

I don't understand what he's talking about when he says keep your instrument handy. Does he mean that the program can hear and decode a musical instrument which the owner is playing near his computer?

Their marketing is awful vague...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Song decoding app - chords, tempo, etc..
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 01:46 PM

The marketing is obviously aimed at young tech aware people,
presuming they immediately understand...

I expect they mean the keyboard shortcuts only need the use one hand
to work the software,
leaving the other hand free for playing along with keyboard instrument or holding guitar ready, etc...

The intention is that users drop an audio file of the song/tune into the software,
which you want analysed...

I guess probably either Wav or Mp3...???

Why not try the free demo...

I don't think the tutorial videos I've seen so far are very good.
They need a better producer with real experience of providing adult education...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Song decoding app - chords, tempo, etc..
From: leeneia
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 01:49 PM

I'm sure you mean well, but I have had years of experience working with music on my computer. I'm not going to turn some powerful program loose inside my computer to appropriate the sound card and mess with the MIDI.

I have the BBC to do that. (I don't link to the BBC anymore.)
========
The deCode people need help. They may be brilliant technologically, but they can't communicate. One good video showing a person setting up the equipment and using the program would work wonders.

On YouTube there is a video of Germanic youth playing a beautiful waltz in F. How I would love to drop that into a program and get the sheet music. However, I don't think it's possible.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Song decoding app - chords, tempo, etc..
From: leeneia
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 01:50 PM

Here's the link to the waltz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6Av6PhUTMo


This waltz would be a big hit at the end of an evening of English Country Dance.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Song decoding app - chords, tempo, etc..
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 02:04 PM

I've no vested interest if anybody tries this software or not.
I've not even decided yet how curious I am about it..

But there probably are mudcatters who can find some benefit from this or similar musician's aids.

All I can do is alert them to the existence of new programs that I've been notified of...

If folks stubbornly refuse to try new things that might potentially help them,
no good them nitpicking about it..


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Subject: RE: Tech: Song decoding app - chords, tempo, etc..
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 06:38 PM

Thread drift alert:

> This waltz would be a big hit at the end of an evening of English Country Dance.

The dancers might enjoy listening to it, but how many of them can waltz?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Song decoding app - chords, tempo, etc..
From: Nick
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 07:55 PM

leeneia

Is this the sort of thing you meant? :)

Waltz midi

Waltz sheet music pdf


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Subject: RE: Tech: Song decoding app - chords, tempo, etc..
From: leeneia
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 09:06 PM

Richard, we always get waltzers. Sometimes five or six couples, sometimes just one or two. And getting to play a lovely waltz at the end of the evening is the reward for us band members.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Song decoding app - chords, tempo, etc..
From: Nick
Date: 14 Jan 20 - 05:07 PM

PFR

I actually think that deCoda is rather better than I first thought but NOT for what it is built for - ie giving you chords. I may experiment with a full copy at some point when I have some time.

While it specifically doesn't go from WAV --> midi the Pianoroll with spectral view does get quite close. It does at least identify things though it is still miles behind Melodyne which can do it in seconds to - IMHO - a very high level of proximity. The pianoroll shows the melodic content of your song and lets you pick the notes that you can use for transcription (no automatic audio to MIDI). Results can be played back and exported as MIDI to your DAW or notation software.

I was chatting to a guitarist I play with and was saying that it is easy to go from Youtube video or anything to sheet music in a matter of minutes using Audacity, Melodyne (30 day free trial) and Musescore. The longest part of the process is getting the audio from the video though there are probably less clunky ways to do it than I did on the example above which hence took about 4 minutes


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