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BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread

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Subject: BS: Broken Government Pledges
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 09:51 AM

Rather than continue to use another thread I thought I would start this as it will probably run for some time.

Johnson's government has already had some bad news regarding it's pledges to reduce tax over this parliament.

I would suggest this is the first of many pledges that will rescinded, ignored, denied etc etc over the next five years.
Tax plans face squeeze


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges
From: Iains
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 10:43 AM

Oh the bells of hell go ting a-ling a-ling for you but not for me......


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 01:00 PM

Um, have any been kept?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 01:20 PM

There goes another


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 02:32 PM

You know when we were joking about Boris going to have the shortest time as PM ever...

well...

But how long do you think before the inevitable back stabbings and leadership challenges...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 03:59 PM

In view of the success that the backroom people have achieved for him, Cummings and his ilk, I reckon he probably could have best part of a year ............. then the knifes will come out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 06:35 PM

He'll have his five years. I've had to reconcile meself for most of my life that the country will be ruled by Tory scum who enrich their own and shit on the working classes. The only difference this time is that we have the disaster of brexit, but that will unfold slowly only. Labour has to take a very sharp look at itself, perhaps ditching the best potential leader (Ms Long-Bailey by a country mile), as anyone "tainted" by Jezza will be dumped on from on high by the ignoranti of the Mail and its demented readers.

Go, Jess...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 06:43 PM

I'm sorry folks, my prediction is from observing, disinterestedly, the man's career. Not any form of wishing!

Boris is a survivor. He is a buffon, a blunderer, a clown, a chancer, a turncoat. He will say many things to achieve his goal. Because it has worked, he will be emboldened.

But he is a survivor. And a lucky one at that. Had he been up against a far more personable (and pragmatic) leader of his opposition, things might have been different.

At the end of the day, politicians have to promise to get elected, and the reality turns out to be more difficult. But that shouldn't stop us chiding them for being brash.

The knives are always out, but they are blunted by Borish having delivered for the party.

If you want Borish gone, be prepared for the long haul. Though E&OE - we ARE living in interesting times. Lay your bets, but make them small!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 07:12 PM

One opinion is Boris pays lip service to his plea for reconciling the divisions.
Proving new working class voters can trust him,
by slightly softening austerity,
as he now has the power to keep the far right tories at bay.

Another opinion is the far right grab the power off Boris asap...
Allowing 5 years for them to asset strip and sell off and the UK to USA corporations.
Making as much quick big dosh as they can before the next election
when the North changes it's mind and boots them out...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 07:20 PM

Now Game of Thrones is over,
It's either The Witcher on Netflix, or the tories in government
to fulfill our needs for ruthless blood-thirsty melodramatic entertainment...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Dec 19 - 09:40 AM

In some ways I prefer him to stay in power for five years. Because the only things likely to dislodge him are major problems with the Brexit deal for which he would be made the scapegoat "for negotiating a bad deal/failing to negotiate a deal" (delete one according to circumstances.) And I do not wish such problems on anyone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 10:12 AM

From DMcG on another thread today:

""Lower courts can roll back EU laws after Brexit, No 10 confirms"

It will be interesting to see how this one plays out. The reason given is that the Government does not want roll back of these laws to be stuck in the Supreme Court due to it being overloaded. But surely if such a law is (or is not) repealed by a lower court, in many cases this will immediately lead to the judgement itself being appealed? Which will, ultimately, end up at the Supreme Court anyway?   The only way I can see of avoiding that is to find some way of limiting the appeal process, which is itself a substantial reduction in citizen's rights."


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Raggytash
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 09:47 AM

Anyone actually surprised by the article below:

"Government suggests planned national living wage increase could be shelved if economy falters
When Sajid Javid, the chancellor, told the Tory conference in September that the government would raise the national living wage to £10.50 an hour over five years, that sounded like a clear commitment. It was in the manifesto (pdf) too as a promise about what would happen under a Conservative government, not something that might happen.

But now an element of doubt seems to be creeping in. As the government briefing document (pdf) on the Queen’s speech reveals, the national living wage increase will only take place “provided economic conditions allow”. This implies that, in the event of a recession, the rise won’t go ahead. The document says:

The chancellor has pledged that the national living wage will increase, reaching two-thirds of median earnings within five years (projected to be around £10.50 an hour in 2024), provided economic conditions allow."

No, thought not.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Iains
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 09:59 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ejo2Kc4-PXw

Howsabout Emily then?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 10:12 AM

Commentary on the newly published Withdrawal Agreement Bill:

"Boris Johnson will use his new majority to strip commitments to negotiate arrangements to reunite child asylum seekers with family after Brexit. Original amendment to EUWA was driven by campaigner Lord Dubs."

And:

The original bill had a long clause, clause 31, titled “Oversight of negotiations for future relationship”. It said the government could not engage in negotiations on the future relationship with the EU unless a statement setting out the negotiating objectives had been passed by MPs. That clause has gone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Raggytash
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 10:23 AM

Can anyone explain why the SHADOW foreign secretary is even mentioned in a thread about broken GOVERNMENT promises?

No thought not.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Iains
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 10:23 AM

That clause has gone.

Hey ho. When you have a majority you can do your own thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 10:25 AM

surely if such a law is (or is not) repealed by a lower court,

AFAIK, long un-repealed laws are not necessarily law. Any new law, that effectively** supercedes an old law, makes the old law null and void. Didn't "Time Immemorial" establish that precedent?
Of course, if parliament now rushes through new laws and doesn't debate the full implications they becomes a lawyers' cash cow.

**You know the old saying "laws are made by lawyers", it was so true in the days when so many barristers could lawyer in the morning and play at being MPs in the afternoon. It is a moot point whether less barristers in parliament means less ambiguous laws or moreso!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 10:49 AM

I wasn't clear then, I think, Mr Red. If a case is brought to a lower court to decide whether some law originating from the EU applies, then whoever they decide for, the other side is likely to appeal.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 10:54 AM


That clause has gone.


Indeed. It was a clause put in as a promise to someone (eg Lord Dubs) which has been dropped. It is therefore a broken promise and it is perfectly fitting that it appears on this thread.

Hey ho. When you have a majority you can do your own thing.

Yes, you can break any promises you have made. Which is, we note, what this thread is about.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 11:28 AM

Yes, you can break any promises you have made. Which is, we note, what this thread is about.”

And which, of course, our PM has achieved a certain notoriety for.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 04:25 AM

One of the oft repeated mantras of the government (and Brexiteers in particular) is that we should "take back control"

Isn't it shameful then when the government allows the sale of a major contractor of UK defence and military technology to an American company.

As the daughter in law of the companies founder said "This is a deeply disappointing announcement and one cynically timed to avoid scrutiny on the weekend before Christmas .....In one of its first major economic decisions, the government is not taking back control so much as handing it away."


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 04:27 AM

Cobhams


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Iains
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 05:07 AM

Isn't it shameful then when the government allows the sale of a major contractor of UK defence and military technology to an American company

As a PLC Cobham can do what it likes. Under the Glorious Consrvatives the government is powerless to prevent it unless on security grounds.
Free movement of capital and all that!

Commie compos winter wonderland of full on nationalization did not come to pass. Remember?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 05:17 AM

Someone obviously cannot understand the written word, as my link opened with:

"'Handing control away': UK's sale of Cobham defence firm to US company decried
Founding family criticises approval of £4bn deal despite NATIONAL SECURITY CONCERNS" *

* My capitals.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Iains
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 05:34 AM

The concerns are obviously groundless or the sale would have been vetoed. Pretty obvious to me- Why not for you....???????


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 05:41 AM

As the daughter in law of the companies founder said:

"This is a deeply disappointing announcement and one cynically timed to avoid scrutiny on the weekend before Christmas .....In one of its first major economic decisions, the government is not taking back control so much as handing it away."


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Iains
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 06:01 AM

It is not within the government's remit to stop the sale. More false news off poor LOSERS!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 06:52 AM

lower court to decide whether some law originating from the EU applies, then whoever they decide for, the other side is likely to appeal.

Like I said, lawyers cash-cow. Not a specific thing I had in mind when I tried to point out, in this parish, that Brexshit would throw-up all sorts of sick (sic). But in my broad generalisation, yes. Because change always throws curved balls. Balls being very apposite.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 07:01 AM

It is not within the government's remit to stop the sale. you are of course totally wrong as usual.

The government does what the fuck it likes. You gave it that permission when you voted. It can decide either way in this instance, but chooses as it has chosen. It can make laws if necessary. It does and has many times. Whatever the turn of the coat the PM decided. Currently there are a lot of more significant repercussions hanging on their choices, and it will mostly impact those wot didn't vote for the current excrescence in Westminster.


Note to trolls of this parish, no colour was ascribed to any government(s) herein so described.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Iains
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 08:45 AM

The government does what the fuck it likes.

This does get tedious

EU Charter of Fundamental Rights
Article 1 of Protocol No.
Every natural or legal person is entitled to the peaceful enjoyment of his possessions. No one shall be deprived of his possessions except in the public interest and subject to the conditions provided for by law and by the general principles of international law.
Further
Article 17 - Right to property
1. Everyone has the right to own, use, dispose of and bequeath his or her lawfully acquired possessions. No one may be deprived of his or her possessions, except in the public interest and in the cases and under the conditions provided for by law, subject to fair compensation being paid in good time for their loss. The use of property may be regulated by law in so far as is necessary for the general interest.

A PLC is a legal person (Corporate personhood is the legal notion that a corporation, separately from its associated human beings (like owners, managers, or employees), has at least some of the legal rights and responsibilities enjoyed by natural persons.[1] In the United States and most countries, corporations have a right to enter into contracts with other parties and to sue or be sued in court in the same way as natural persons or unincorporated associations of persons Courtesy of wiki.A Nation can invoke Article 346 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the EU, which allows any government “to take such measures as it considers necessary for the protection of the essential interests of its security”.

This means the UK can subsidise an industry, or prevent the sale on security grounds. If security is not seen to be an issue by the government of the day then it cannot prevent the sale of an independent company

As usual lefties bend, distort, and outright lie.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 08:49 AM

EU Charter of Fundamental Rights

Oh the irony.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 08:57 AM

And article 346. Ditto the irony.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 08:58 AM

Yeah lefties like the Daily Mail.


Mail article


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 12:06 PM

You may have all noticed the closure of the other two threads. Thank you for that SRS. I agree we only need one Polit-UK thread and, considering it will all be broken pledges from now on, this should be it.

Play nice :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Dec 19 - 05:43 AM

Make of this what you will ............... one nation? ..... yer right.


Link


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Iains
Date: 23 Dec 19 - 08:58 AM

More post deletions. Is posting the truth too uncomfortable for some?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Dec 19 - 09:35 AM

I don't think so.

Flamers and Trolls are dealt with by the moderation team though.

With particular reference to -

flame bait
An intentionally inflammatory posting in a newsgroup or discussion group designed to elicit a strong reaction thereby creating a flame war.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Dec 19 - 09:42 AM

And from the same link. Something that I keep reminding others of

I've said it before, and I'm sure I'll say it many times more: the best way to deal with both flamers and trolls is to ignore them. Give them silence, and they'll go away. They feed on attention - don't give it to them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 03:23 AM

Back to the thread topic.

Police support staff cuts


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 06:38 AM

Boris has got the perfect amswer, ' everybody knows I'm a liar, so what did you expect ? what's the problem ? '

Dave H


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 08:12 AM

Crying over spilt milk.

I read somewhere that if Farage's gang of nutters had not stood the tories would have clinched another 20 seats.

that's the pay off for having your fun . three and a half years of gratuitous insults. Telling people they were idiots who understood nothing.

nationalisation, repatriation of IS - even as they were doing murder on the streets of the capital (that was our fault for waging war against saddam Hussain) etc Brilliant stuff guys ...take a bow!

Everything the tories do to us will be YOUR fault.... you knew what the consequences of losing were, and you gave nary a fuck.

the wrongness of your approach is on statistical record, and you are still unrepentantly laying down the law.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Iains
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 08:21 AM

Big Al. When the eejits have spent their compulsory 40years in the wilderness there is a slender chance they may begin to understand.
Meanwhile the sane majority continue celebrating the tremendous defeat of the remainiac lefties. It is even more satisfying to realize no one is, has, or will listen to them!
Luvvin it!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 08:38 AM

”By means of ever more effective methods of mind-manipulation, the democracies will change their nature; the quaint old forms -- elections, parliaments, Supreme Courts and all the rest -- will remain. The underlying substance will be a new kind of non-violent totalitarianism. All the traditional names, all the hallowed slogans will remain exactly what they were in the good old days. Democracy and freedom will be the theme of every broadcast and editorial [...]. Meanwhile the ruling oligarchy and its highly trained elite of soldiers, policemen, thought-manufacturers and mind-manipulators will quietly run the show as they see fit.”

Aldous Huxley, Brave New World Revisited, 1958


Sound familiar? It should - it’s already happened, and the Right will ensure it continues. The evidence is in the two previous posts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 08:56 AM

If IDS gets a knighthood, Corbynistas should get an Iron Cross with oak leaves (services to the Tories)


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 09:18 AM

THIS is more popular/important than your priorities.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 10:16 AM

Al, the only people to blame for the Tory victory are those who voted for the Tories. Your posts are sounding more and more like those of the resident right wing plants. Your blaming of the EU for the loss of the car industry, blaming East Europeans for crime and blaming free movement for the running down of the NHS are arguments straight from the front pages of the Daily Heil.

Now, it has already been established that invective and flame bait will achieve nothing but deletions and thread closures. If you wish to argue for Tory policies, feel free. I suggest though that you stick to verifiable facts. That way there may be some hope that this thread may continue to be a vehicle to expose broken pledges and lies in civilised manner rather than becoming a platform for hate speech.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Iains
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 10:50 AM

Now, it has already been established that invective and flame bait will achieve nothing but deletions and thread closures.

I can find thousands of posts from the lefties that give the lie to that statement. They have still not been deleted!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 11:03 AM

I repeat my earlier link on dealing with Flamers and Trolls


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 11:05 AM

Well now why don't you just toddle off and find them all. No rush back until you've done it. And don't come back until you've found at least two thousand. "Thousands" can't be any less than that, you know. As you never have anything constructive or remotely sensible to say, that's the best suggestion I have for keeping you mercifully quiet and relieving us of your profound stupidity. Hope this helps.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 11:13 AM

Point taken, Dave. Perhaps the moderators will see the light and make a certain New Year's resolution....


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 11:14 AM

Which just shows how little you know about tory policies Dave. Most of the EU mischief was achieved under toey misrule.

theone consistent thread in tory policy is the impoverishment of working people and attacking their unions and representatives.

The scattergun Corbyn approach has made the biggest attack on working people in several generations, and the saddest thing is that you take NO responsibility for where all your shit slinging has led to.

The tories could never have dreamed they would have collaborators in their plans like you and Steve. They'd never have done it without you!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 11:25 AM

Facts, Al. Facts make the best arguments. It is an inescapable fact that the only reason we have a Tory government is because they won most seats. Whatever logic has led you to believe that a couple of posters on a forum read by a handful of people have swayed the population to vote Tory is wrong. In the same way you are wrong to blame immigrants for all the ills of the UK


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 01:08 PM

Hands up anyone who now realises they are a useful idiot for the far left,
or an even more useful idiot for the far right...

..what no hands.. no one...?????

not even you over there in the corner
keeping your head down looking ever so slightly guilty and sheepish...!!!

Oh well.. just goes to show the power of persuasion, deception, denial, and delusion...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Stanron
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 01:23 PM

As an escape from the plethora of mind numbing Christmas movies that are almost everywhere on TV land at this time of year I've been spending quite a lot of time watching the BBC Politics channel. There are a couple of series of short lectures that are interesting. One is called The Reith Lectures. There are five half hour programs where Jonathan Sumption looks at aspects of Parliament and the Law.

Another series is called Reflections: When Parties Split. Again in five half hour parts, Steve Richards looks at party splits starting with Peel and the Corn Laws, Joseph Camberlain, Ramsey Macdonald, Labour and the SDP and finally Brexit.

Both of these series look cheap as chips, A single camera on a single speaker with or without a lectern. In one of them there is a Radio 4 logo and all of these would have done as well as radio programs. The Radio 4 logo suggests that they were. If you can find them, they are all on again tomorrow, they are worth a listen.

Another surprising gem amongst all of this is a program called Briefings. Tony Blair, speaking less than a week after the election, reflects on the state of the Labour party and it's defeat. He looks at the history of the Labour Party and predicts alternate futures. He points out that before the Labour party the Whigs and Liberals were the long time opposition to the Tories. Before the Labour party existed the Liberal Whig coalition spent more time in government than the Tories.

After The Labour Party overtook the Liberals the Tories spent more time in Government than Labour. Although he didn't put it like this himself, this suggested to me that the existence of Labour split the left wing radical vote and weakened it for good. He went on to suggest that if Momentum do not relinquish their hold on the party, the party itself will be replaced. Surely a third left wing party would increase the divide even further.

Tony Blair did not suggest this, but I wonder if the solution would be an amalgam of Lib Dems and center Labour outcasts to form a New Liberal Party. That could be an effective opposition.

Not, of course, that I want one, or do I?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 01:34 PM

Stan - I'm more persuaded the Libs should disband,
and their members and voters be decisive
if they are more inclined towards Labour or Conservative parties.

Potential Benefits..??? - perhaps, a strengthened shared centre moderate ground
for more consensual day to day politicking..
maybe helping keep extremes in check...

.. and a simpler more definite two main party 'either/or' choice at elections...???

well.. what do I know.. I'm just a bloke with opinions...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 01:36 PM

Isn’t that where the Lib-Dems came from?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 01:55 PM

BWM - I could live with a two party system..

But I'm fairy convinced that whatever they say in public about a "strong Opposition party"
too many right wingers would prefer a ONE party political system..
..or even a NO party monarchy, or Empire...???????


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Stanron
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 01:56 PM

The Lib Dems did come from Centrist Labour MPs leaving when The Militant Tendency group were strong and joining the Liberal party. What happened then was that the Moderate Left, under Neil Kinnock, took back control of the Labour party which led to Tony Blair's Land slide victory in the 90s.

Momentum has control of the party now, at the local level and at the top of the party tree. It's hard to see how they can be removed, unless they themselves acknowledge that their goals are unattainable and give back power to the center. If pigs can really fly like that, what will we do for bacon?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 02:07 PM

Thanks, Stanron. We disagree most strongly on politics but you can at least post your views without the recent taunts and flames. Most of the time ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 02:38 PM

That’s what I thought Stan. All a bit hazy now though.

Unfortunately, the Lib-Dems completely blew it for me when they betrayed my trust by joining in coalition with the Tories in 2010. Until 2015 I’d never voted Labour in my life, but I refused, and still refuse, to vote for the party who sold out to the Tories, and my strong Sense of self-respect ensures that I have never, and will never, voted Self-Servative.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Stanron
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 03:11 PM

Backwoodsman wrote: Unfortunately, the Lib-Dems completely blew it for me when they betrayed my trust by joining in coalition with the Tories in 2010.
I understand that. That's why I think it would have to be a new party with new leaders and a new power structure.. If not New Liberals maybe New Whigs or perhaps Central Left. I don't mean to be provocative here but the circumstances that led to the initiation of the Labour party no longer exist. Political parties have not all changed to meet how the workplace, the electorate or the world of information have changed.

One solution is to let Momentum have the anachronistically named 'Labour' Party and design a modern new Party that reflects today's conditions. This could be seen as an opportunity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 03:35 PM

Interesting idea, Stanron. My reservation is that we could end up with a political system based just on varying degrees of capitalism. Don't get me wrong here, I have always said that capitalusm, particularly when done responsibly with views on both people and resources, is not always a bad thing. But neither is responsible socialism. We need to look after those least able. We need an NHS. We need coordinated transport policies to save resources. We need to manage the release of greenhouse gasses. These things do not make a profit. They are not in the remit of the free market economy.

How would your centrist party manage the excesses of unfettered capitalism? How would it help social and ecological policies to its shareholders?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: bobad
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 03:49 PM

Lol.......someone who posts "Daily Heil" and accuses another of "invective and flame bait" in the same post.........you couldn't make it it up , right Mr.Polshaw or should that be Mr.Polakow?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 03:50 PM

One major problem for the future
is too many traditional working class ex-Labour supporters
have, since the brexit referendum, by now had their minds too deeply polluted
by the worst popularist international far right internet and mass media 'influencers' ..

This does not bode well for any serious attempts to heal divisions..

Society has taken too far a step back into the dark ages
of eN eF/Bee eN Pee recruiting at factories, football grounds, pubs, etc...

A new 'New Labour' would again be too middle class,
A momentum new 'Old Labour' might probably also be too middle class...

This leaves dubious options for disaffected working class voters
when they eventually tire of empty tory promises...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Raggytash
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 04:17 PM

Bobad ……………. does it matter what Dave's surname is ………. or do I detect a racist/xenophobic nuance in your post?

I strongly suspect the latter.

If I am correct it has no place on this or any other forum.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 04:28 PM

"Bobad……………. does it matter what Dave's surname is ………. or do I detect a racist/xenophobic nuance in your post?

I strongly suspect the latter.

If I am correct it has no place on this or any other forum."


Another thing that has no place on this forum is the publication by an anonymous member of the true, real-world identity of another member.

As low as it's possible to go, and a tactic beneath contempt.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Stanron
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 04:30 PM

Dave the Gnome wrote: How would your centrist party manage the excesses of unfettered capitalism? How would it help social and ecological policies to its shareholders?
Do we actually have unfettered Capitalism any longer? We have workers rights, environmental protection, safety at work and taxation. Sure the Amazons and Googles of today defy national constraints but I expect that international politics will eventually get fetters on them.

Also all our political parties are tied to the NHS, social services, green policies and integrated transport, through the demands of democracy. You might loose them in a one party state but the idea of a Central Left party is that it would keep the Right focused on the center by being a viable alternative.

Pfr, I think a lot of the ex-Labour voters who voted Conservative this time would vote for a center left party next time if it were more like the old New Labour. New Labour got a landslide election victory at it's first outing because, for one thing, it wasn't too far left. Leave things as they are now and they may well vote Conservative next time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 06:35 PM

We do at the moment, Stanron, but I worry for the future. How do you feel about the infiltration of your party by extreme right wing activists like the ones on here? I do hope your own team can keep them in check.

Neither my original surname nor my new one had anything to build do with me, bobad, but I am proud of the achievements of the family that have held both. My Father suffered at the hands of both the extreme right and extreme left. I have suffered at the hands of the extreme right who tried to mimic my identity both here and on Facebook. Mentioning my surnames assisted with that but I am not frightened of you or your right wing allies. Just what is it that you are hiding by keeping your identity secret?

Oh, and invective directed at object such as the government, the law or the Daily Heil is not personal abuse. Feel free to take it up with someone who gives a shit if you disagree.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 06:42 PM

Al how do you feel about the tactics of your new found friends? Do you not think that the type of right wing dirty trick that you and I have been subjected to, that is still going on here, deserves your contempt as much as anything that Steve or I say on Mudcat? Or are you now firmly under the spell of the spin doctors?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Stanron
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 06:56 PM

What's all this about your name? I seem to have missed that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 07:45 PM

Does DtG know what Bobad's surname is? It seems like a really stupid argument, but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Dec 19 - 02:43 AM

I don't, Jeri, and I really couldn't care less.

You didn't miss much, Stanron. See

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: bobad - PM
Date: 28 Dec 19 - 03:49 PM

I have no idea what he was trying to achieve.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Iains
Date: 29 Dec 19 - 04:28 AM

" As you never have anything constructive or remotely sensible to say, that's the best suggestion I have for keeping you mercifully quiet and relieving us of your profound stupidity. Hope this helps."

The bottle bank near you must do a roaring trade! and a teetotal New Year to you!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Raggytash
Date: 29 Dec 19 - 05:46 AM

Any chance of you responding to the challenge which was in response to your post:

"I can find thousands of posts from the lefties that give the lie to that statement. They have still not been deleted!"

So, come on, show then to us and please don't post anything else until you do so.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Dec 19 - 06:48 AM

So much for the Conservative party becoming more moderate

5000 from the far right have joined the Tories


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Dec 19 - 07:00 AM

No surprise, is it.
As the old song says, “You ain’t seen nothin’ yet!”.
No doubt our Tommy Robinson fanboi will be creaming his underpants.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Dec 19 - 06:05 PM

An interesting piece here from today's Guardian, in which the future battlegrounds of the Brexit campaign are discussed.

Johnson will find it very difficult to carry out his Brexit plans without damaging those very areas who abandoned traditional Labour allegiances and, out of the blue, gave him his big majority. It's going to be an interesting few years (assuming he lasts that long, and that's by no means a given).


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Dec 19 - 09:11 PM

He can't find thousands of those posts, Raggytash, because there aren't thousands of those posts or anything like. He's a liar. Not only that, he's a put-up job. His strings are pulled by an extreme-right group and he hasn't got the balls either to come clean about that (note that he never denies it, because he can't) or to actually express any opinions of his own (which wouldn't be worth a fart in a spacesuit in any case). Christ alone knows why our mods, who generally do a damn good job, can't just cancel his membership as they did with akenaton and Teribus, who look almost like fluffy kittens alongside him. Let him confine his postings as a guest in the music section. In fact, he knows bugger all about that either. I came back here after the latest shutdown to defend SRS against his stupid claim that she didn't have the first understanding of democracy. Somebody saved me the trouble by deleting the post. There'll be a next time!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Iains
Date: 30 Dec 19 - 02:56 AM

Keep it up lads. You make my point most admirably.If we assume a mere 5% of the cabal posts are flames and insults, as the 2 members immediately above, then the combined postings of 60,000 provide 3000. Your time would be more usefully spent kicking Unite and Momentum out of the Labour party.
As long as they remain Labour will continue to shrink.
From my point of view it is a trend to be encouraged, Compo's Clowns are not even a viable opposition party any longer.
What a glorious start to the New Year! Brexit beckons. After all Bojo was elected on the mantra "Get Brexit Done". I don't fink he will dare break that pledge. After all the people's vote quite clearly said: "Out brothers, OUT!"


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Dec 19 - 03:44 AM

How about kicking Britain First out of the Tory party?

Motes, eyes and beams spring to mind.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Dec 19 - 05:23 AM

"If we assume a mere 5% of the cabal posts are flames and insults, as the 2 members immediately above, then the combined postings of 60,000 provide 3000."

Feeble, based on fake assumptions (it's what liars do) and in no way does it respond to your vacuous claim about those "thousands of posts." Not good enough. I want those posts listed, chapter and verse, all of them. If you can't do this, which you can't of course, I suggest you desist from making stupid claims based on falsehoods. I'm calling you out here. Piss or get off the pot, and stop being so bloody dishonest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Dec 19 - 05:28 AM

What I really don't understand is why anyone would continue to fight the elect Bozo and leave the EU fight when it has already been won. The moderation team have, quite rightly, said we need to limit the number of polit-UK threads so they can monitor them more easily. The election is finished. We are going to leave the EU. This thread is about broken pledges and I would be happy for any off topic posts to be removed. I would also be happy if anyone posted reasons why the pledges have been broken or even how well the new administration is doing in reply. If that ever happens. But no one should be surprised if off topic blatant flame bait is deleted.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Dec 19 - 05:40 AM

Hear, hear Dave.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Stanron
Date: 30 Dec 19 - 07:32 AM

This is absolutely ridiculous. A Moderator has decreed that there should only be one UK political thread. That, in itself, is not ridiculous but the thread has a title that is politically biased and the faction in favour of the bias insist we keep to the title's subject!

Could the Moderator in question change the thread title to something like 'The Only Allowed UK Political Thread' or an equivalent?

I would like to discus the upcoming Labour party leadership election. No need for a fictionally biased thread title there. The subject may well be a source of embarrassment for Labour Supporters and merriment for it's opponents but the results will have a significant affect on UK political future.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: DMcG
Date: 30 Dec 19 - 07:43 AM

It is completely up to the moderators what they allow on the site, but for my tastes I would prefer discussions on Labour's leadership debates and what the government does as separate threads. Mixing them together in the same thread would be very confusing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Dec 19 - 09:19 AM

The punk rock ethic of short sharp and effective comes to mind...

Any of 'our' political threads seriously needs a time and posts limit,
to keep them on track, unrepetetive, and readable...
[with at least some self disciplined effort to try to reach sensible debated conclusions...]

So let's try not to be boring old gits...

To become such is anathema to punk rockers,
even though the surviving originals from 1976/77
are now knocking on 65 to over 70...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Government Pledges: B. Johnson's govt
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Dec 19 - 09:20 AM

The mods' standpoint on excessive UK political threads is perfectly respectable. The Labour leadership contest is not yet properly underway. When it is, I'm sure that this one could be suspended. After all, Johnson has at least five years to break all his pledges. There's plenty of time. And the suggestion that this is biased whereas a Labour leadership thread wouldn't be is just laughably disingenuous.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 30 Dec 19 - 12:56 PM

I did suggest in my opening post that this topic could run for some time.

I also suggested that many of the pledges of the Johnson government would be rescinded, ignored or denied over the next five years.

In their first week in office at least three of their pledges had been put in doubt.

I would be grateful if the thread could be limited to that subject and that subject alone.

If anyone would like to start a thread to discuss the future of the Labour party I'm sure most of them could manage that but it is not a subject for this thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Dec 19 - 01:13 PM

Spot on, Raggy. A thread on the Labour leadership will follow shortly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 30 Dec 19 - 01:19 PM

Margaret Hilda Thatcher, Baroness Thatcher, LG, OM, DStJ, PC, FRS, HonFRSC is looking at the antics on this thread and laughing herself silly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Dec 19 - 01:26 PM

Folks up north will be waking up in 2020 with hangovers..
.. and maybe a few emerging nagging doubts about what they did..???

So what is the electorial equivalent of 'Buyers Remorse'...???

At least there is some consumer protection covering return and exchange of impulse purchases
within a stated period after rashly clicking 'Buy Now'...

Well done up north.. you are lumbered with Boris now,
and you won't even be able to quickly get rid of him on ebay...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Dec 19 - 01:31 PM

"Margaret Hilda Thatcher, Baroness Thatcher, LG, OM, DStJ, PC, FRS, HonFRSC is looking at the antics on this thread and laughing herself silly."

Well, she did completely lose her marbles towards the end...
A sad fate shared by perhaps a majority of elderly tories...???


Just the kind of minds we need running a modern forward looking nation...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 30 Dec 19 - 01:43 PM

I don't know about anyone else but I'm still waiting for evidence of thousands of posts detailing " that invective and flame bait" from Lefties.

Come on iaians, where is your evidence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Dec 19 - 01:54 PM

Raggy - he's probably still waiting for the research unit in the USA,
Russia, or a grubby stale semen reeking public school dorm,
or wherever,
to supply him with the necessary script...

He's just waffling playing for time until then...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Dec 19 - 02:40 PM

Well it would be a very good idea if he could just shut his mouth until he can substantiate his claim.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Dec 19 - 02:54 PM

Good heavens, a late addition to Mr Johnson’s NYHL!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Dec 19 - 05:13 PM

I note the change of thread title (it's a bit clumsy but hey ho). Whilst I think that we Brits should respect the fact that this is not a UK website and should definitely refrain from starting excessive numbers of new political threads, it would be a shame if we were overly constrained in a way that doesn't seem in keeping with the laissez-faire ethos of the forum. We should also reflect, as should the moderators, on the fact that almost all the current trouble in this part of the board is stirred up by one individual. Depends on what kind of place we want this to be, I suppose.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Dec 19 - 05:39 PM

If everybody would for the love of god ignore that one individual, there wouldn't be any 'trouble'!

And yes, DMcG and pfr, I'm including you in 'everybody'. There is no conceivable benefit in attempting to engage in an intellectual exercise with one who has neither (a) intellect, nor (b) any interest in debate, and who maintains a presence here simply to make mischief


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Dec 19 - 06:38 PM

Teamwork.. comrades.. together we will build a new socialist utopia..

..ermmm.. but not until Thursday, it's still the xmas/new year holiday..

..actually might as well make it a long weekend and give it a good start on Mon.. errrmm Tuesday.. afternoon maybe...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Dec 19 - 07:28 PM

We can ignore him, and generally we do try to, but he must substantiate his claim that he can find thousands of those posts, and give us chapter and verse. It was a scurrilous and unsupportable attack on decent people by a very indecent man, and we shouldn't let it pass without his corroboration. Shades of Keith lying about those two historians, when he tried to tell us that Geoffrey Wheatcroft had described AJP Taylor and Alan Clark as vulgar and fraudulent when Wheatcroft had written no such thing (it's still there on the Guardian website). I'm bloody sick of politicians thinking they can get away with throwaway lies, both here and in the US, and I worry about the culture that's being allowed to set in, and I'm damned if I'm going to let this fellow get away with trying it on here. So I want a list, minimum, of those thousands of posts, and we shouldn't let him proceed any further here until he delivers just that. If that means not ignoring him for a bit, so be it. Don't worry, I'm not turning into a Jim!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 02:02 AM

Oh Dear oh dear!
The leftards are not taking their nightmare before Chrissie very well. Are they?

Good training for their next nightmare. Trying to find a leader in the new year! Compo is a class act to follow. By any metric he was an abject failure.
Luvvin it!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: DMcG
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 03:57 AM

I take you point, Backswoodsman, that I am unwilling to ignore anyone completely, though I do ignore posts that are rants.

But there is a real issue in ignoring people and I think this rant of against us has a lot of truth in it. Ignoring people can end up just making us feel better.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 03:57 AM

Who won the election?

I think it may turn out ultimately that Corbyn's five quid trots won.
Boris is such a tit that he will undoubtedly bring the ultimate (and much longed for by Marxists) revolution several steps closer.

And they will tell you in Northern Ireland and Beirut, violent revolution is fun, fun fun....


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 04:58 AM

In view of the video posted above that contains some very real self evident truths let us consider some of the posts below. There are many hundreds to choose from, but I can't be arsed to find them all and it clutters up the thread. The selection is so wrong in content it can only be considered as flamebait.

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 04:47 AM
Well I suppose that the breakdown by party would be helpful to party leaderships in informing them of the general sentiment among their supporters. The reason I raised it was in order to counter the oft-made claim that most Labour-held seats ("in Labour's working class northern heartlands," etc) voted leave. Statistically correct, but if you say it, whilst neglecting to say that most Labour voters in those constituencies voted remain, you're being a bit of a scoundrel, aren't you?

Above Conjecture Below Fact
Labour's 'red wall' of seats crumbled and turned blue in this General Election as voters rejected Jeremy Corbyn and delivered him a humiliating defeat.
The Tories snatched Labour seats across the industrial heartlands of the Midlands and north of England - many of them for the first time - as Brexit-supporting communities backed Boris Johnson.

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 06:11 AM
"We may disagree with the decision many leavers made based on cynical false claims and disinformation,
but accept they did it for what they believed at the time were positive reasons for the benefit of us all..
It's clear many now regret that decision."


Yeah! Right on!       The reality

326 seats needed to win
UK results Conservative 365 Labour 203 SNP 48         LD 11 DUP 8 Others 15
More absolute garbage from the same post:
. Ignorance and racism led to the leave victory. Anything else is just indulging stupidity.

From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 02:45 AM
The leavers are fully aware that the majority would almost certainly vote to stay if they were given an opportunity to re-confirm their decision - there can be no other possible reason for not allowing a second vote

We just had one.Leave won again


Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman - PM
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 05:18 AM
The whole point of BrexShit is to benefit the wealthy and powerful - they started it, they’ve driven it, and they’re still driving it, aided and abetted by The Nicotine-Stained Frog, The Blond Buffoon, The Lying Scottish Viper, Jake Rich-Mong, and supported by their brown-nose, working-class mucky-toffs on this thread and elsewhere.
Everything to do with their wealth, SFA to do with benefitting the rest of the people of the U.K.

Insults versus reality, Who won that argument?

From: David Carter (UK) - PM
Date: 23 Apr 19 - 04:18 AM
Note that there is no question of Farage's party "winning the European elections" as some of the more fanciful headlines in the sewer press have said. They are not standing in nearly enough seats to do that.


Above pure delusion. Below fact
Party Brexit Party 29 seats Libdem 16 Labour 10

The list goes on and on. A tiny minority here think they represent the UK. In fact the majority of the voting public heartily rejected everything that the minority on here constantly bang on about. The recent election demonstrated that most clearly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:14 AM

Another stupid and pointless post from the bloke who claims he can find that list of thousands...

Whilst I share Mr Pie's frustration (though I reacted with a lot less anger and a lot more resignation myself), I can't agree that there's much truth in his rather emotional analysis.    There's no doubt in my mind that large numbers voted leave because they were uninformed, misinformed or simply didn't have a clue what they were voting about. I've spoken to many leave voters since 2016 and have heard the plethora of vox pops that the BBC misleadingly peddles to us in the guise of "news." In terms of politics the electorate is uneducated, which leaves them vulnerable to lowest-common-denominator propaganda. And the worst of that was racist, and enough suckers fell for it to swing the result. And it's untrue that "the country voted to leave."

Sorry for the off-topic response but I wanted to express disagreement with the point you made. At least I think I'm doing it civilly!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:28 AM

Iains - the lefty pefties are having a bad time, great fun isn't it!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: DMcG
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:31 AM

Yes, the Pie video is over emotional, but that is his comic style. Occasionally you can see interviews with the actor behind the Pie persona, and he is, as you would imagine, much calmer and more rational. And I agree the statement about voting for Brexit twice is at the very least debatable, if not outright false.

But there is an underlying truth that refusing to engage with people, or only engaging to insult them, is not a very effective strategy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:33 AM

Well we'll soon see how Boris will have to ditch his promises when economic events overtake him. "The blind workings of the market" will see to that. Being blind, they'll pay no heed to his handsome shock of Trump hair or of his dashing, sexy, trim figure, I assure you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:37 AM

Just who are this "tiny minority here think they represent the UK"? I certainly don't think any such thing. I doubt if Steve or Backwoodsman think they represent the UK.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: DMcG
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:44 AM

One of the interesting things over the next year will be this separate bill on workers' rights. That will be a real Scylla and Charybdis to write. Every right that is left out threatens a future hold on the red wall, every right that is included risks losing the free market supporters. A classic one, which I have referred to before, is the regulations on maternity leave which Martin Cannanan denounced in Brussels as an example of a regulation that should be scrapped as it is a barrier to employment. To be fair, it does put quite a high cost on businesses, so it is an example of where a decision needs to be made about trading off the interests of the two parties. What actually is decided over the next year will reveal quite a lot about the future.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 06:01 AM

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-case-for-professors-of-stupidity?utm_source=pocket-newtab

Posted without comment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 06:23 AM

I don't see any flaming just people's personal opinions, there is nothing inflammatory in any of the posts listed.

Incidentally 13,966,565 people voted for the party which said it was definitely going to leave. At least 15,297,879 people voted for parties who said they either would remain for give a second vote.

That is not inflammatory that is fact.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 06:40 AM

Re Dave the Gnome's post of Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:44 AM

quote;

He went on to make one of his most famous observations, that the “fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”

Exactly whose side are you on?

Admittedly remainers express doubt regarding Brexit, but don't you see that doubt expressed with undeniable certainty?

This blade cuts both ways.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Rain Dog
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 06:42 AM

Steve Shaw posted "In terms of politics the electorate is uneducated, which leaves them vulnerable to lowest-common-denominator propaganda."

Was that just for this election or all the previous elections as well?

It is the nature of the beast.

Happy New Year to you all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 07:19 AM

I am certainly full of doubt, Stanron. I do not consider myself to be wholly right on any political or economic view. I doubt if anyone else is wholly right either. On brexit I have often said that seeing as the country was split almost in two, there should have been a compromise. I am willing to give Boris a fair chance even though I think his policies will be bad for us. In both circumstances I sincerely hope that I am wrong in my primary assessment. I posted the link without comment so it could not be said to be aimed at anyone in particular. But if anyone is so certain that their viewpoint is the only true one, I do hope that they recognise themselves.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 07:28 AM

Incidentally 13,966,565 represents about 21% of the total population. A little over 1 in 5.

They do not necessarily speak for the other 79% of the population.

Thus they cannot claim to be the people's voice.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 07:31 AM

I was referring to the referendum, not an election. Many of the same considerations apply to both, though the fundamental difference is that we were handing over a crucial and irreversible decision to an unqualified electorate. In an election we are choosing the people who we want to make the big decisions, and the result of an election is ultimately reversible. In addition, the issues at stake in elections are multifarious.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 07:43 AM

If its any reassurance Dave. I agree. I don't think you're right either.

happy new year!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Rain Dog
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 08:01 AM

Well I am not a fan of referendums myself. Was it an unqualified electorate back in 1975 when, according to the reasoning of some of you here, only 43.35% voted to remain in the EU?

I was not old enough to vote in the '75 referendum. I did vote remain in the last one. We will have to wait and see what lies ahead for us all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 08:44 AM

Rain Dog wrote: Well I am not a fan of referendums myself. Was it an unqualified electorate back in 1975 when, according to the reasoning of some of you here, only 43.35% voted to remain in the EU?

I was not old enough to vote in the '75 referendum. I did vote remain in the last one. We will have to wait and see what lies ahead for us all.
I was old enough and I did vote to remain in the Common Market. I did not vote to join a hierachical and democratically deficient United States of Europe.

The architects of that dismal construct made sure that no-one ever got to vote on that until it was all done and dusted. That is why I, and, I suspect many others like me, took the last referendum as a chance to say 'No' for the first time. All this business about being lied to in the referendum campaign overlooks the fact that an awful lot of people clearly remembered not having the opportunity to say 'No' to the treaty of Maastricht and the treaty of Lisbon. Posters on the side of buses played no part in that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 10:38 AM

Yes, Stanron, but your side insisted that we'd voted to leave the single market and customs union, when we'd done no such thing (well they weren't on MY ballot paper...) and in most people's cases probably didn't even know what they are. You are being very selective. In every political system that I I've known about, changes are proposed and take place down the years and decades and I for one don't want to vote on every one of them, if on any at all. I didn't agree with the '75 referendum either but at least there was a significant majority for the status quo. A simple requirement for one vote over the 50% to bring in an irrevocable change, with no minimum turnout requirement, is a complete outrage. The trouble that Cameron's hubris-ridden referendum caused, nowt to do with Europe and everything to do with keeping his backwoods backbenchers and UKIP at bay, was inevitable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 11:35 AM

Well Steve Shaw, in view of Dave the Gnome's post of Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:44 AM

quote;

He went on to make one of his most famous observations, that the “fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”

It's nice to see we are both so certain. I guess that makes us equally stupid.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 12:09 PM

Queen Anne and a grateful nation gifted Blenheim Palace to the 1st Duke of Marlborough for his great victory at the Battle of Blenheim in 1704 that stopped european empire building in it's tracks.

I wonder what a very grateful nation should give the highly esteemed Mr. Farage for an even greater victory over EU hegemony?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 12:41 PM

In 1975 I was too young to vote, though started studying British Constitution, Govt & Politics, and Law
at 6th Form College...
But more importantly, I was far too busy trying to lose my virginity to care much about any referendums..

However, now I do think it's a bit too unfair on the current and next younger generations
that a loud minority of old folks harbouring resentments going back more than 40 years
have decided so dogmatically on the future fate of our nation...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 12:46 PM

He can find "thousands of posts," etc, yet, when challenged to produce them he comes up with just four, not one of which even remotely makes the point which he was pathetically trying to make, and that was after he tried to make up cod statistics based on nothing at all to prove that there must have been at least three thousand. We always knew that we have here a bullshitter par excellence, but now he's proven that he's not just a bullshitter but also a liar. Johnson won an election on the backs of lies which went insufficiently challenged. Let's not allow the same mistake here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 01:02 PM

Lies, deception, shifting the blame to innocents, thuggish bullying,
getting rich from shady dealings,
are so gangsta..

They are modern virtues, characteristics of strength,
that appeal
to the voters of such outrageous rogues as Boris and Trump...

Nice guys are put on this planet to be exploited and destroyed..


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 01:12 PM

I wonder what a very grateful nation should give the highly esteemed Mr. Farage for an even greater victory over EU hegemony?

An all-expense paid lifetime membership in Hell.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 01:33 PM

An all-expense paid lifetime membership in Hell.

You demonstrate yet again a total lack of understanding of UK politics.
My stance represents the jubilant majority. That is how Mr Farage won the majority of seats in the EU parliament and Labour lost to tory in their red heartlands.
Telling everyone they are racist and stupid really worked well! Did it not.
I believe the deplorables gave the democrats a drubbing as well.
From my standpoint your respective electioneering techniques must be encouraged. It is only right to encourage losers(to lose again)


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 01:49 PM

One thing I do find, slightly, consoling is that some of us expect the situation in the UK to take a turn for the worse.

Thus, some of us are lucky enough to be able to plan ahead for the inevitable maelstrom that will fall upon us, some of us expect it.

Some of us.

However, there are many, many people who will I feel be greatly shocked, and financially much worse off in the not too distant future and I have serious concerns about these people.

But, I know I shouldn't, but I sincerely hope that the vocal proponents of Brexit on here are the one's who suffer most.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 02:06 PM

New Year’s Resolution time, folks.

I recommend something along the lines of, “I will not rise to the bait laid by the forum’s Extreme-Right-Wing-Plant or any of his newly-found acolytes”.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 02:09 PM

Raggy - I'd like to ready myself as a survivalist prepper..
But I lack any military training,
am getting a bit too old and slow to learn how to kill a mob of scavenging food raiders..
in self defence..
.. aint even watched enough Bear Grylls on the telly to know the right animal poos to suck on for water...

So we'd better hope Boris don't fuck up our future....


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 02:13 PM

Going back to the title of the thread there is a timely reminder of just how trustworthy conservative election promises are worth.

In 2015 the conservative government promised that the national living wage would be £9 per hour, yesterday they announced they would make much needed changes to the national living wage. However this is still fall short of the figure promised in 2015.

Failure to reach that promise equates to about £1600 per annum to those worst off in out society.

An absolute disgrace.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/dec/31/government-misses-minimum-wage-target-set-by-tories-in-2015


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:23 PM

Yes, Stanron, but your side insisted that we'd voted to leave the single market and customs union, when we'd done no such thing

A fortnight before the referendum in 2016, then Prime Minister David Cameron said during an interview:

    “The British public would be voting if we leave would be to leave the EU and leave the single market."

If leaving the single market leaving the customs union occurs as well.
Terrible things facts!

From the UK government leaflet dropped through every door:(project Fear on steroids)
The Government believes that voting to remain in the European Union is the best decision for the UK
If the UK voted to leave the EU, the resulting economic shock would put pressure on the value of the pound, which would risk higher prices of some household goods and damage living standards.Losing our full access to the EU’s Single Market would make exporting to Europe harder and increase costs.

Despite "call me Dave's" antileave leaflet the majority voted leave.
They confirmed that choice in the recent election.
The entire leaflet was created by remainiacs including Cameron.
Must have been a nasty shock for him when the British public gave him two fingers in the ballot box. I wonder if Bojo cleared enough vermin out of his party to keep brexit on track?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:28 PM

"You demonstrate yet again a total lack of understanding of UK politics."

SRS shows more understanding of UK politics than you could ever show in a million years. Time and time again here you have demonstrated utter ignorance, bigotry, racism and vacuous triumphalism that marks you out as a complete moron. Sadly for you, you are just about the only person here who doesn't recognise your lack of decent values. You are a far-right put-up job and you tell lie after lie. Your latest one is the one about those thousands of posts you claimed you could find. You've been asked about this again and again and have failed to produce a single one. The fact that you continue to display your ignorance here so shamelessly also demonstrates that you have no dignity. What a loser.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:30 PM

"You demonstrate yet again a total lack of understanding of UK politics."

SRS shows more understanding of UK politics than you could ever show in a million years (you've just demonstrated this yet again in the post above this). Time and time again here you have demonstrated utter ignorance, bigotry, racism and vacuous triumphalism that marks you out as a complete moron. Sadly for you, you are just about the only person here who doesn't recognise your lack of decent values. You are a far-right put-up job and you tell lie after lie. Your latest one is the one about those thousands of posts you claimed you could find. You've been asked about this again and again and have failed to produce a single one. The fact that you continue to display your ignorance here so shamelessly also demonstrates that you have no dignity. What a loser.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:32 PM

Apologies for the double. I thought it had gone into the ether.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:35 PM

Iains wrote:
A fortnight before the referendum in 2016, then Prime Minister David Cameron said during an interview:

    “The British public would be voting if we leave would be to leave the EU and leave the single market."
I remember too. That paragon of political impartiality, Andrew Neil, showed a series of videos of Politicians, Heads of Industry and Bankers all saying the same thing to remainers who made the 'we weren't told' argument. Water off a duck's back.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:51 PM

The fact is that the vast majority of the electorate didn't have a clue as to what the single market or customs union are. You can tell me until you're blue in the face that the public actively voted for something they knew little or nothing about, but I'll call you a liar. Don't believe me? Go down the pub and ask your mates what the single market and customs union are. Maybe then you'll stop deluding yourself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Mossback
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:52 PM

Hullo, Steve -

For the New Year I recommend you forswear turd-wrestling.

I extend the same suggestion to others in re; the current Turd Triumvirate.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:58 PM

Seconded.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 06:29 PM

I'd like to offer to everyone who has contributed to this thread, scatalogically challenged or not, a happy and prosperous new year.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 06:37 PM

Yes, a happy and healthy new year to everyone. Even Iains! :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 06:38 PM

Just as a little reality check to end the year, it would seem that "taking back control" may not extend to the UK fishing fleet (or the bits that the people who own the fishing rights have not sold off the overseas fleets)

An interesting article in todays Guardian and what will in all likelihood actually happen.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/31/the-guardian-view-on-brexits-fishy-tale-we-will-need-friends-at-sea

Take back control ...….. yeah Right!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 06:47 PM

Point taken, Bill and John. But I feel there's one thing that we still have to do. Laissez-faire is one thing, and I applaud it. But letting a discussion forum go to hell in a handcart just so that an insulting maniac can be given his head seems like a step too far to me. I might have to kowtow, but not via a New Year's resolution.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 08:49 PM

Incidentally,

"That paragon of political impartiality, Andrew Neil..."

Are you blind? Neil was chairman of the Federation of Conservative Students in Scotland. He worked as a researcher for the Tories. He was the editor of Murdoch's Sunday Times for over ten years. He worked for Murdoch with Sky, where he was the founding chairman. He worked for the Daily Mail and for the Barclay brothers. He supported the invasion of Afghanistan and the invasion of Iraq. He supported the US invasion of Grenada. He supported the installation of American nuclear weapons in UK military bases. He is a climate change denier. He employed the Holocaust denier, David Irving to work for his paper.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 08:51 PM

(Sent that last one prematurely by accident). If that's your idea of a paragon of impartiality, then I feel sorry for you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 08:57 PM

Happy New Year


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Jan 20 - 03:13 AM

I think, I hope, that Stan was 'havin' a larff' with his quip about Neill being a 'paragon of political impartiality, Steve.

I hope so. Despite our differences of view, I regard Stan as one of the 'relatively good guys' from The Dark Side - one who is capable of making a meaningful argument, even if it is presented in a somewhat gruff, abrasive manner sometimes (we're all capable of being gruff and abrasive, aren't we?). I'd really hate to see him go down the 'Iains' route of non-discussion and provocative flame-baiting.

Happy New Year to everyone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Workingtonman
Date: 01 Jan 20 - 03:03 PM

Round here I can't see much evidence of any jubilation. Obviously (as ever) the overwhelming bulk of the Tory vote is mainly older voters who are so lost in Daily Mail land they couldn't vote any other way. Some of the the few people i have spoken to who have changed their vote and have swapped outright condemnation of the rigged, elitist system to vote for Boris Johnson seem unsure, a little thoughtful and even embarrassed about whether they will get any of the promised benefits of more Tories or Brexit


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 01 Jan 20 - 03:34 PM

I will declare a 5 minute truce to wish everyone a belated Happy New Year.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Jan 20 - 04:13 PM

Times up.

Yes we live in testy and testing times. Yet there is reason to be optimistic.

From my US perspective I have always looked upon England as the epitome of a more civil and polite society and language - until I read your threads.
The stereotype I have is shared by many, unless they have seen your Parliament. It is something to build on to create a weapon against fascism (again) or simply rise above the fray.


And yes wit or comedy should be allowed even if you have old farts who don't get it. Disreali comes to mind.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Jan 20 - 04:34 PM

Actually I wish our Republican and Democrat politicians could have as civil and polite discussions as I find here recently. Excluding the turds of course.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 01 Jan 20 - 04:53 PM

Time for a recap of how we reached the present situation after Broken promises: Lessons from 10 years of the Blair Government in Europe.
Complete with a spiffing link so the linkless pontificator cannot accuse me of lying.

http://www.proyectos.cchs.csic.es/euroconstitution/Treaties/Library%20(Since%20June%202007/open%20europe%202007a.pdf

The article makes a complete mockery of the then Labour party position.
Fast forward to compo's clowns and the recent election has achieved the same thing.
The article also encapsulates many of the reasons why the leave vote won.
Taking back control was obviously of major importance to the majority yet ridiculed by the lefty guardianistas on this forum.
He who laughs last.............!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Jan 20 - 05:19 PM

Oh, I can accuse you of lying all right. Your latest post is simply yet another pathetic attempt to divert us from the vacuous claim you made, which I reproduce here again in full:

"Now, it has already been established that invective and flame bait will achieve nothing but deletions and thread closures.

I can find thousands of posts from the lefties that give the lie to that statement. They have still not been deleted!"

Despite repeated requests, you have failed to come up with a single one of those "thousands of posts." As you know, and as I know, there are no "thousands" of such posts. And you knew that before you posted that post. Like Keith used to do, you hoped we were too thick to notice. Well you've found different. Therefore you are a liar.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jan 20 - 09:11 PM

You're wasting your time with those requests, we all know he won't answer and a number of the toxic exchanges have been deleted. Your best bet is to simply ignore trolls.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 03:02 AM

We all know that lying is the new norm in politics. It is little wonder that some people on here emulate their leaders. Shame but no surprise.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 04:37 AM

We all know that lying is the new norm in politics. It is little wonder that some people on here emulate their leaders. Shame but no surprise.

Compo the clown"WON THE ARGUMENT!"

Yeah right. That worked out really well. Bums on seats is the only metric to consider,
and we have more than you. Therefore what we wants, we gets!

Giddy up Brexit!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 05:13 AM

Dave the Gnome wrote: We all know that lying is the new norm in politics.
Political lying is a test that cannot be applied equally because only the winning party is in a position to keep it's manifesto promises. Boris's main promise in the last election was to get Brexit done. So far it does not look as if he will break that promise but if he did I would have thought you would be delighted.

As for the thread title, at least partly changed, if we have to discuss Broken Government Pledges we have to go back ten years or more to find examples of Labour's broken pledges. I can't be bothered to put the time in to do an academic type search, but I don't have to go to such lengths to remember

"No student tuition fees!"

Remind me, how did that one go?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 05:32 AM

Stanron, I made it quite clear in my opening post that this thread was referring to the present Johnson government and I also made it quite clear that I expected it to run for the life of this parliament.

It may have escaped the notice of some but we have had a conservative lead government for 10 years you cannot blame past failings of any labour government for any of the ills of today, sufficient time has elapsed for them to have been corrected.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 05:52 AM

You predicted that a Tory Government would break pledges. I pointed out that in the past a Labour Government broke a pledge of enormous significance. Especially to the younger voters. Funny that, seeing as how they claim to represent the younger generation.

There have been two previous Tory Prime ministers in the last ten years and Boris is the third. Same party but, perhaps, a different Government.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 06:01 AM

Well we still blame Adam 'n' Eve for the fact that our souls start off with the stain of original sin.... ;-)

And I'll keep saying it until I'm blue in the face: politicians who utter unrealistic aspirations, or who put the best spin on things, are not lying. A better-educated electorate would sit comfortably with that. But bare-faced lying, as we see with Trump, Johnson and the far-right troll on this forum, should be called out for what it is for every single time. Letting blatant lies pass happened a lot in the election campaign as well as in the brexit campaign. It's a dangerous slippery slope.

By the way, he lied about his ability to find "thousands" of posts AFTER most of those deletions happened, SRS. Just sayin'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 06:04 AM

Sure, Stanron. And your Tories rapidly tripled tuition fees after a solemn pledge from the deputy prime minister that it definitely wouldn't happen.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 06:05 AM

Typical response of "whataboutism" Stanron.

How about a comment on this.

The government has promised an increase in the national minimum wage of 6.2% which they claim is over 4 times the rate of inflation.

By the same token they have allowed the rail companies to raise prices by 2.7% which they claim is less than the rate of inflation.

So if inflation is in excess of 2.7% surely a rise in the nation minimum wage of over 4 times the rate of inflation should result in a rise of over 10.8%, not 6.2%.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 06:06 AM

From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 05:32 AM
Stanron, I made it quite clear in my opening post that this thread was referring to the present Johnson government and I also made it quite clear that I expected it to run for the life of this parliament.


Now that the forum has been restricted to a single thread discussing UK politics it is no longer reasonable to believe that the originator of this thread should have any control over the direction of the discussion. (in my opinion)


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 06:07 AM

A soupçon of Labour broken promises.
Did not the bliar and broon promise a referendum on EU membership?
and promptly renege?
Tsk, Tsk
In 2005 Labour stated that it would “maintain [the] inflation target at two per cent. Last month it was 3.9 per cent.
The party also pledged to eliminate youth unemployment – it was currently running at more than 920,000 among 16-24 year olds
In n 2005 Labour made the same pledge on income tax – aiming to underpin its third successive victory. However, in 2008 Mr Darling announced a new 45p top rate of tax for those on £150,000, putting this up to 50p in 2009
Council tax, which Labour said it was “committed to reform”, and pledged to keep “under control” in 2005, has gone on rising with plans for a property revaluation in England kicked into the long grass.
Labour’s plans for a National Insurance rise from next year (which they would partly block if elected) is a “tax on jobs” and a world away from Labour’s 2005 declaration: “We want a tax regime that supports British business”.
In June 1997, at the start of New Labour’s years in power, John Prescott, the former deputy prime minister, rashly declared: “I will have failed if in five years time there are not ... far fewer journeys by car.” By June 2002, car traffic was up by seven per cent.
Mr Blair began his final term of office with a renewed zeal for major reform of the public services – with education top of his list.
However, literacy and numeracy targets for 11-year-olds, which the 2005 manifesto promised would be met, have not been hit. Nor do all children receive two hours of PE or sport per week, which the document pledged they would do by this year.
In 2005 Labour promised a “nationwide week-long summer residential programme for school students”. Nothing like this has been introduced.
The party also promised a “bigger, better” higher education system with increased public spending. However, about half of Britain’s universities will have their budgets cut this year as the sector becomes one of the first big victims of government savings.
In 2005 Labour’s “aim” was for 50 per cent of young people to go on to higher education by this year – by 2008 the figure was only 39.8 per cent – a rise of 0.6 percentage points since 2000. The 2010 manifesto promises patients a maximum 18 weeks’ wait for treatment. Laudable – until you remember that the same promise was made in the party’s 2005 manifesto and that for one in 10 patients this target has not been met. Another great Blair idea – patient choice – saw a pledge that by 2009 all women would be able to choose where they had their baby as well as what sort of pain relief. However, the National Childbirth Trust suggests this is not true for 95 per cent of women. Neither has Labour been able to do much to meet its plan to reduce health inequalities between rich and poor. 2010 targets in this area for both life expectancy and infant mortality are set to be missed.Labour’s plan for “comprehensive” out-of-hours service by GPs sounded good – until 90 per cent took up a contract to opt out of such provision. Even a relatively minor, achievable-sounding pledge, such as the 2005 promise to make fruit and vegetables part of every school meal, has not been met. By 2007, Labour said, every offender would be supervised after release.” Currently those who spend less than a year in jail are not supervised. Labour also pledged in 2005 to introduce a “non-emergency” telephone service to report crimes which was duly launched the following year using the 101 number – only to lose direct Home Office funding in 2007. An electronic borders system to track visitors to the UK was promised by 2010 – but will not be fully on-stream until 2014.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 06:22 AM

I find it extremely ironic that you, of all people, should use the word "Bliar."

As I was saying, an educated electorate should easily be able to distinguish between expressed, unrealistic aspirations/spin and bare-faced lies. If you publicly pledged that tuition fees will not increase, then, within months, you triple them, you lied. If you said that leaving the EU will save £350 million a week, when you know that it isn't true, you lied. Learn to spot the difference and you can then call yourself educated.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 06:22 AM

I repeat for those of limited understanding:

"It may have escaped the notice of some but we have had a conservative lead government for 10 years you cannot blame past failings of any labour government for any of the ills of today, sufficient time has elapsed for them to have been corrected."


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 06:27 AM

No more Boom and Bust?

Just before the big crash.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 06:35 AM

It may have escaped the notice of some but we have had a conservative lead government for 10 years you cannot blame past failings of any labour government for any of the ills of today, sufficient time has elapsed for them to have been corrected.
Economic illiteracy as usual: For lefties delectation and delight!
New analysis of official figures shows that Labour initiated PFI contracts to build 103 new hospitals between 1997 and 2010. The party proclaimed at the time of the last election it has been responsible for a "new generation" of hospitals in Britain.

The total "unitary charge" payments for these hospitals was £5.1 billion. However, many projects will not be fully paid off for more than two decades - with the last one not "completing" until 2048.

The total accumulated "unitary charge" payments for the hospitals will be £65.1 billion - meaning that only 7.8 of the total was actually paid for before Labour left office.
Costs have escalated because of rising fees and additional charges for maintenance, cleaning and catering.
According to official figures, the NHS currently pays back £1.25 billion each year - but this figure will increase until 2030 when it is expected to hit £2.3 billion.
Howsabout that then? Terrible things facts!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 06:38 AM

As I was saying, an educated electorate should easily be able to distinguish between expressed, unrealistic aspirations/spin and bare-faced lies. If you publicly pledged that tuition fees will not increase, then, within months, you triple them, you lied. If you said that leaving the EU will save £350 million a week, when you know that it isn't true, you lied. Learn to spot the difference and you can then call yourself educated.

Idiot!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 07:01 AM

No more boom and bust sounded like an aspiration. As did getting immigration down to the tens of thousands. Politicians "breaking promises" is time-honoured. We should take manifesto pledges as giving us the general intended sense of direction of the political party should they get into power. That is not the same thing as telling bare-faced lies. Saddam's weapons was a bare-faced lie. £350 million was a bare-faced lie. Tuition fees won't rise was a bare-faced lie. Farage's poster was a bare-faced lie by insinuation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 07:29 AM

No more boom and bust sounded like an aspiration,
Rubbish it was the cornerstone of brown's fiscal policy


May 20, 1997, speech by the chancellor to the CBI: Exploiting the British genius – the key to long-term economic success:
"Stability is necessary for our future economic success. The British economy of the future must be built not on the shifting sands of boom and bust, but on the bedrock of prudent and wise economic management for the long term. It is only these firm foundations that we can raise Britain's underlying economic performance."
April 28 1998, speech by the chancellor to the British American business council in London:
"Now it is true to say in Britain that the last forty years has been characterised by stop go, boom bust, instability in economic policy. And so I can tell you that the first objective of the new government has been the determination to ensure monetary and fiscal stability, in place of stop go, and to do so in an economy far more open than the sheltered national economics of the past."
June 10 1999, speech by the chancellor at Mansion House:
"The way forward is for governments to consciously pursue monetary and fiscal stability through setting clear objectives, establishing proper rules, and requiring openness and transparency - the new rules of the game. Particularly important for a Britain which has been more subject than most economies to the instability of boom-bust cycles and constantly changing policies.
April 5 2000, Speech by Gordon Brown to the British Chamber of Commerce national conference:
"In a global marketplace with its increased insecurities and indeed often volatility and instability national economic stability is at a premium, the precondition for all we can achieve, and no nation can secure the high levels of sustainable investment it needs without both monetary and fiscal stability together.
And it was to avoid the historic British problem - the violence of the repeated boom and bust cycles of the past - that we established the new monetary framework based on consistent rules - the symmetrical inflation target; settled well understood procedures - Bank independence; and openness and transparency. And side by side with it and as important, a new fiscal discipline with, again, clear and consistent rules - the golden rule for public spending; well understood procedures - our fiscal responsibility legislation; and a new openness and transparency
My vision is of a Britain where there is not stop go and boom bust but economic stability; a Britain which is business-friendly, and where there is enterprise, opportunity for all; a Britain which rewards the innovator and risk-taker and encourages a new generation of entrepreneurs, a Britain which because opportunity is open to all is enterprising and fair."
June 20 2001, chancellor's speech at Mansion House
"Every time in recent decades when the British economy has started to grow, Governments of both parties have taken short-term decisions which too often have created unsustainable consumer booms, let the economy get out of control and sacrificed monetary and fiscal prudence. And everyone here will remember how quickly and easily boom turned to bust in the early nineties.
March 28 2002, speech to the TGWU conference, Manufacturing matters
"With Bank of England independence, tough decisions on inflation, new fiscal rules, and hard public spending controls, we today in our country have economic stability not boom and bust, the lowest inflation in Europe, and long term interest rates - essential for businesses planning to borrow and invest - lower than for thirty five years.
This was the same laddie that gave away the gold reserves for a few cornflake packets


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 08:20 AM

More "whataboutism" going back 20 years now.

Perhaps he could employ his time better by searching out the thousands of posts that harbour invective and flamebait.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 08:26 AM

Stupid boy. The thread is about broken Govt pledges.No timeframe is specified. It is rather sill to pursue the present government, they have only been in office a couple of weeks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 08:33 AM

It's not me who is the stupid one.

The opening posts clearly indicates (or at least it does to intelligent people) that the thread is about the present government.

To date, after less than a month in power, they have already indicated they will renege on several pledges.

any sign of those thousands of posts with flame-baiting and invective yet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 08:44 AM

I couldn't agree more, Raggytash.

An expressed policy is not a promise. The vicissitudes of life can make it difficult to achieve. Expressed policies are in the same league as aspirations. We can forgive if policies and aspirations have to be changed. What we should neither forgive nor forget is the bare-faced lie. It should always come back to bite the liar until he accepts that he lied and until he apologises. In the case of our resident liar, pigs might fly, I suppose. To that extent I agree with SRS.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 08:54 AM

”You're wasting your time with those requests, we all know he won't answer and a number of the toxic exchanges have been deleted. Your best bet is to simply ignore trolls.”

Wise words from a wise woman. Wise members will take heed. Some of us already have.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 09:03 AM

For the 2005 election Tony Blair promised he'd serve the full third term. Did he keep that promise?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 09:06 AM

Now that the forum has been restricted to a single thread discussing UK politics

It has not been restricted as far as I know. It is a request from the moderation team to limit the number of threads so they have less shit to shovel. If you wish to open another and have good reason I suggest you take it up with them. Maybe if the threads were not full of lies, trolling and flame bait they would have less to do anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 09:35 AM

”You're wasting your time with those requests, we all know he won't answer and a number of the toxic exchanges have been deleted. Your best bet is to simply ignore trolls.”
Good to see the least expression of a counter narrative to the cabal is
classified as lies, trolling and flame bait and frequently deleted.
It simply confirms publicly that political moderation is alive and well on mudcat.

As requested:
You can sort through them I have far better things to do

Raggedytash posts 5,765 ( your contribution is miniscule)
The Gnome posts 22,675
Shaw posts 23,952
The backwood prof. of scatology posts 7,638
He who must not be mentioned posts 30,000
An example to wet the palate , so to speak:

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 06 Apr 17 - 05:27 PM
What a bloody prick you are. I post or not post whenever I want, and you do not get to jump to conclusions about my views from that. It's lucky for you that I don't tell you what I really think about you a damn sight more often than I do, you arrogant little turd. If I were you I wouldn't read anything at all into the fact that I hold back....

I must say you lefties are the height of charm when taken to task!

Why was the post above not deleted?

Oh but that would be a level playing field and we cannot have that!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 09:39 AM

Tell us the thread and let's see the context. And listing total posts does not give the information you've repeatedly been asked for. More dishonesty.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 10:05 AM

Steve, that quoted post was not in reply to the lying, mendacious creep we are dealing with now.

It was in reply to another lying, mendacious, deceitful bastard who used to infest this forum, nothing to do with the man above or any of his posts.

Like you said more dishonesty.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 10:43 AM

It really is dead simple. If you don't want posts to be deleted keep them relevant and civil. Some will slip through the net as the moderators can only do so much but not 'thousands' as stated. Other posts that may be deleted are those discussiong moderation policy or those posted to simply cause trouble.

I keep posting this link but it feels like I am banging my head against a brick wall. It is worth reading.

Etiquette & Advice


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 11:21 AM

From: Dave the Gnome - PM
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 09:06 AM
Now that the forum has been restricted to a single thread discussing UK politics
It has not been restricted as far as I know. It is a request from the moderation team to limit the number of threads so they have less shit to shovel.


From the 'Brexit' thread:
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Dec 19 -
There are TOO MANY UK POLITICAL THREADS GOING on this American folk and blues music site. These things repel users and the fighting bleeds into other threads. Constrain yourselves to one thread.


That reads to me as an instruction, not a request. You may think differently.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 11:41 AM

Whoever the "Iains" poster is today - your posts are too long and detailed
to be bothered with reading them..

I [and probably other readers] simply don't have that much spare time when catching up on this thread...

Same goes for any othe poster indulging in such lengthy copy n pastes...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 11:49 AM

A distraction: They still do not get it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0DQGys7cMs


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 11:59 AM

Iains - it's a new year, and and a step into a hopefully less divisive and more amicable future..

Any chance of the sensible, interesting, occasionally helpful, version of the "Iains" persona reappearing sometime soonish...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 12:12 PM

PFR more than happy to oblige when the cabal desist from their constant sniping. Regrettably if I do not provide chapter and verse I am accused of lying. This makes it difficult to shrink the subject matter on occasions.
I see Boris has hit the ground running, according to Guido(the man with his ear to the ground in Westminster.)
He is casting his beady eye on the machinations of the supreme court and the boundary Commission. Hopefully he will then investigate accusations of collusion with the EU by the likes of Corbyn et al. This would also include the alleged help of the EU in drafting the Ben Bill.
There is much meat to chew off those bones I suspect, and would fit well with the proposed revision of the treason bill.
We will hope these are promises that will be honoured in their entirety.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 01:05 PM

You may think differently.

I know differently. The constraint is on the methods, not the subject matter. If you start a political thread and manage to keep it clean, it will stay open.

Good luck with that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 01:34 PM

The Corbyn I referred to above is of course Bercow. My apologies.

As far as compo and Labour are concerned:
"When your enemy is in the process of destroying himself, stay out of his way." -Sun Tzu


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 06:52 PM

You are lying because you made a claim for which there is NO chapter and verse. The thousands of posts don't exist and they never did. I'm sorry for being boring here, but this man should not be allowed to absolve himself from telling lies via frequent and varied attempts at diversion. Either he comes clean and admits that he was making things up or we should accept absolutely nothing that he says from now on, ever, even when he's "trying to be nice."


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 07:47 PM

Back at you too, Stanron. Nice to see you breaking a New Year's resolution on the 2nd. Perhaps you'd like to tell us the last time either you or your extreme right-wing mate, about whom you never utter an adverse word, was "nice" on this forum. Birds of a feather, I suppose.

My bigger point is, on topic, that a culture has developed in politics in which blatant lying is passed by, excused and exonerated. That's very worrying, and unchallenged lying, as is routinely practised in Russia and China, is a direct assault on democracy. You keep the people politically ignorant then you lie to them. It happens now in America and it happened, bigtime, in both the referendum campaign and in the last election campaign. I'm not talking about "breaking promises." I'm talking about bare-faced lying of the £350 million type, the immigration poster type and, earlier, the tuition fees type. The number of times I heard Johnson or Gove, among others, lying to camera and not being properly challenged was staggering. Now we have a man on this forum who is trying to cash in on that same culture. Well I for one am not up for letting that go, thanks. If that means you don't think I'm very nice, Stanron, well I can tell you that I won't be crying into my pillow tonight. Choose your friends more carefully would be good advice to you, lest you be tarred...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 04:15 AM

Once again, if the advice on the Mudcat FAQ is followed, there should not be a problem. Don't respond to trolls. Don't rise to flame bait.

Steve, the lies are as obvious as the wind ups. Everyone knows it. A one liner is fine and remind people if necessary but repeated responses only feed his craving for attention. Not responding makes it obvious where the problem really lies.

Workingtonman (is it Pete?) Don't go. We need your measured and sane input! Without it there will be fewer people trying to stop the swing to the right that is plaguing the rest of society.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 04:32 AM

Workington man. Without knowing your political affiliation it is hard to recommend a blog. Despite the abuse Guido Fawkes receives on this forum, on things political, he is often before the MSM when it comes to breaking news, Each of his postings has comprehensive contributions from his readers. They are mainly brexit supporters but also include a few remainers. Guido polices his contributors rigorously.
The slog(by Mr Ward) is also largely political but has far fewer remarks than Guido.
I tend to get my sources from all over, from Russia Today to the Guardian. I am of no particular political persuasion I am ruled more by facts than ideology.
I am sure others here could point you to many other political blogs that encourage contributions.
I have to say that any political discussion on this forum is promptly hijacked by the bullying cabal and rational argument drowned out in a sea of abuse. This is a shame as the membership crosses all parties and affiliations and hold widely divergent views.
Please stay around and voice your opinions. The more the merrier in my view. I hope you have some success in your search.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 04:44 AM

Unreal. :-)

You're quite right, Dave. I've had a temporary splurge following Iains' despicable bout of lying. I've also petitioned a moderator pretty intensely to do the sensible thing and remove his membership. I've been given wacky and unconvincing reasons why they haven't done it. So from now on he's a non-person.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 05:24 AM

An online petition shared by Mr Corbyn's brother Piers is urging him to reverse his decision to resign and has gathered more than 13,000 signatures already. This is despite him taking the country to its worst election result since 1935. His shadow home secretary(who would be in charge of the police) has just had her son charged with 11 offences, nine assaults including biting a policemen, one count of racially aggravated criminal damage, and one count of exposure.
In other news a yougov poll shows Half of Britons want the BBC licence fee scrapped and would like the broadcaster to adopt a commercial model and make its money through advertisements - like ITV and Channel 5 - or subscriptions. It was also revealed that chief adviser Dominic Cummings could lead a review of the BBC’s funding. (Watch out BBC)
Cummins has, in a 3,000 word blog, put the call out for a new generation of non-humanities graduates to move into the offices of power and launch a seismic hiring scheme to sweep away the cobwebs of Whitehall. Bring us your tired, your poor, your weirdos and misfits… Bring it on, I say

As Émile Coué de la Châtaigneraie would say "Tous les jours à tous points de vue je vais de mieux en mieux"


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 08:46 AM

"put the call out for a new generation of non-humanities graduates to move into the offices of power"

Funny that... back in the early 80s at our Polytechnic Campus / Halls of Residence
the non humanities students tended to be at worst openly racist thatcherite thugs...

Who were fully intent on gaining as much power as they could seize in their apiring career paths...

[if i recall one on the wannabe lawyers was sectioned after a particularly violent episode...]

The Humanities students like my mrs tended to be just normal average well balanced young people
[with a small minority of middle class kids flirting with socialist worker party membership...]
following up their A levels in History and English lit and suchlike...

They tended towards caring and creative professions...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 09:02 AM

PFR of course you can provide copious statistics to back up your rather wild claims?
Others would dispute your allegations

https://thefederalist.com/2015/06/02/the-liberal-arts-are-dead-long-live-stem/
Engineering students, for example, attend an essential core set of courses that includes calculus, physics, and chemistry. Should we assume that English majors still peruse Shakespeare and Chaucer? Probably not. Do philosophy majors read Aristotle, David Hume, or Friedrich Nietzsche any more? Do sociologists study Plato, Voltaire, or James Madison? etc.
Stem students deal in facts, not ideology (or at least most of us do)


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 09:21 AM

"wild claims..."...????????????????

Iains - did I say my quick post was anything more than an anecdotal recollection
of my own experience 40 years ago...

Yeah.. asking for statistics on that is a bit of a pointless request...
But if you want facts...

The town and country planning students I knew were fairly conservative,
though amiable enough blokes to have a pint and party with..
The crazy violent Law student was a much feared sociopath known as "Jock"...

That'll have to do for your research needs...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 09:40 AM

Anecdotes about a limited sample does not sit well when making sweeping assertions about the belligerence or pacifism of stem versus humanity students as you should well know.
Had I dared make such an assertion the cabal would be on the case like rats up a drainpipe or all over it like a rather nasty antisocial rash.
After all yours was a blanket condemnation, albeit a limited sample.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 10:25 AM

oh no it wasn't...

So over reliance on pedantic abstract statistics is a better solution for society's needs and ills,
than intelligent considered critical humanist analysis and judgement based on personal experiences..

That certainly spotlights a significant divide between humanities and non humanities graduates...

The robots are taking over...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 10:27 AM

Welcome to a future of AI art, literature, and music...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 10:37 AM

Do philosophy majors read Aristotle, David Hume, or Friedrich Nietzsche any more?
Also anecdotal, but yes, based on my daughter's degrees. And also the 'A' level philosophy syllabus she taught.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 10:47 AM

PFR the linked study suggested “Science students do well in non-science courses, but non-science students have difficulty in science courses. Slaves of exactness find it easier to adjust to the inexact, though they may be disdainful of it, than those who think in the realm of the inexact when confronted with the exact.” Perhaps envy subtly contributes to liberal arts defensiveness against STEM
and
Political correctness has corroded the humanities and social studies, as recently noted by David Patten in The Federalist and last year by Harvey Silverglate in the Wall Street Journal. After rejecting their objective anchors in the academic canon of classical texts, these fields succumbed to passionate group thinking and sybaritic self-absorption. The arts have become a free-for-all, as witnessed by the plethora of departments categorized by identity politics and demands for “trigger warnings” for traumatized souls.
Houston, we have a problem!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 12:18 PM

Yes.. but you'd expect right wing think tanks to say that...

New tory dream - Govt welfare departments run by AI algorithms,
programmed for compassion and empathy by Dominic Cummings...

"Science students do well in non-science courses, but non-science students have difficulty in science courses. "

btw.. at school I was consistently top of the class in Biology and English..

Not either / or one, or the other in polar opposition

it's known as being a balanced well rounded individual....


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 12:21 PM

"Not either / or one, or the other in polar opposition..."

Grrrr.. bugger that misplaced comma...

Not either / or, one or the other in polar opposition....


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 12:37 PM

Dominic Cumsock's weirdo scheme is just a blatant attempt at social engineering
by way of nastily prejudiced employment discrimination...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 12:50 PM

Pfr if you have any kind of technical job in the private sector you have to continually update your skills. Anyone with chartered status has to undergo continuing professional development.
I would suggest that D Cummins is making a perfectly rational decision to have technical jobs in government carried out by technically qualified people who will also have to undergo continual assessment.
Waffling with a humanities degree just ain't in the same league.Would you want a reactor run by a sociologist. or heaven forbid, a teacher? If the civil service unions do not like it we know who will win that war. Mighty Maggie showed the way
We have just had a general election that made clear the electorate desire to have the government of the day govern, not a bunch of rebels,
or unions. The future is bright, the future is Bojo!

Social engineering is what the left has done to the educational system.
Frankly I preferred the social engineering of the 11*. The latter provided clear benefits to those that took advantage.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 03:44 PM

How to avoid trolls? I know, simply ignore them. It irritates them intensely.
Let us see how the Labour loons are doing:
They have tabled a motion to delay brexit. Slow learners or what?
Jess Phillips launches bid to be next Labour leader saying she'll confront 'anybody in power' and claims the government FEARS her 340,000 Twitter following. I fear for her sanity if she believes that sh*t.
Another person is backing Abbot - a woman so far to the left that she refuses to wear right shoes! The length and severity of her son's charge sheet could cause her a few additional problems as well.

The Lib Dems seek to scupper Brexit AGAIN - this time with a public inquiry. Seems like another of Baldric's cunning plans to me.
Obviously it will go nowhere.Perhaps someone should update them on the recent election results. The remainiacs were largely culled from Parliament, and are now but a shoutie minority! But still making a nuisance of themselves. They simply do not understand their lack of a numerical advantage, probably because they are arts grads. Judging by his recent recruitment drive Dominic wont be making that mistake.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 03:52 PM

Woman sez to her husband, me feet are bloody killing me. I can hardly walk. He looks at her and he sez, no wonder, you've got your shoes on the wrong feet. She sez, but these are the only feet I've got...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 04:37 PM

Should really put this on the joke thread but what the hell.

Two snakes are sitting in a glass tank at Belle Vue zoo.

One snake asks: Are we the type of type of snake that wraps ourselves around the victim and crushes, starves them of oxygen, and basically suffocates them before we eat them or are we the type of snakes that bites them and injects them with poisonous venom and kills them that way before we eat them.





Don't know says the other snake, why do you ask.




I've just bit me tongue sez the first.



I'll get me coat!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 06:26 PM

Dammit, Raggytash, that even made Mrs Steve laugh and that's a bloody tough ask is that!

Mind you, as you'd mentioned Belle Vue, it prompted me to read it to her in a northern accent. That helped...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 06:29 PM

(Wait for the backlash, Raggy...should we also discuss recipes, red wine and wild flowers...?)


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Jan 20 - 02:26 AM

Well between folks on my side of the political fence lecturing me who I mustn't talk to;
and mods deleting posts I considered to be making intelligent and serious points regarding UK politics,
in a UK politics thread...

why the f@ck not discuss frivolous trivia.
.. if we're not allowed to talk about anything more meaningful...!!!???

So then.. we are allowed one UK politics thread, providing we don't discuss UK politics in it...????

..anything else we need to know to avoid unnecessary confusion...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Jan 20 - 04:40 AM

Since there are some comments sprinkled about here about the potential Labour leadership and a few names are now appearing, here are a few of my thoughts.

They need to get both the policies and the person right. To me, Rebecca Long-Bailey fails on both fronts. I cannot see her as naturally liked in Middlesbrough and Redcar: I have just returned from that area having spent New Year with relatives, and, no, I am afraid she is not a good fit.

Her policies are too Corbynista as well, as far as I can tell. I listened into a webcast during the election for the Labour 'door knockers' and during it McDonnell said where the free Internet idea came from. I think it very informative, so I repeat it here. They were in Colne Valley and talking with councils and local businessmen about attracting new businesses to the area. It seems they did not have too much difficulty getting potential new business to consider the area, but the Internet connection in the area is extremely poor. For a modern business that is a huge obstacle. Clearly, of course, Colne is not the only place with this issue. So they had - correctly - identified a block on new business. They had identified - correctly again - that Colne is by no means the only place where poor Internet might be blocking new business. They had also identified - correctly - that getting a fast Internet to these areas would be a great asset for getting the business they need.

And then they blew it by leaping to the idea that everyone, even with excellent Internet, should have it for free. It is, in my book, where ideology overrode actually finding a solution to the problem they had identified.

I think Rebecca Long-Bailey is too closely aligned to that way of thinking.

Keith Starmer, while not yet announced as a candidate, seems to be very popular amongst Labour members. I would find him very acceptable, and am convinced he would not make the Internet blunder. He may not be a natural fit with the Teesside area, but I don't think he would be an obstacle like Rebecca.

Jess Phillips probably wins hands down in the likeability stakes, and I think most voters would see her history of rejecting some the 'wilder Corbyn ideas' (as they are portrayed) as positive. Whether Labour members would is another matter, so I think she could well be rejected by the membership.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 04 Jan 20 - 04:55 AM

DMcG Jess Phllips has posted some fairly daft statements on twitter that make her credibility questionable. Starmer is probably regarded by Tories as the most dangerous. But do you really think Labour has any candidate that can climb out of the hole they presently inhabit? The cult of Corbynism and the outright rejection by the electorate of anything smacking of momentum means that at the moment they are in a vacuum. I am amazed corbyn is allowed to remain. His front bench performance is that of a goldfish out of water. He has turned his partyinto a rudderless, powerless laughing stock.
I for one demand a better opposition party than that!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jan 20 - 03:44 PM

Starmer is a man-in-suit, second referendum remainer bloke.. Spot the weaknesses. Jess is a great backbencher who would scare Johnson to death, but I can't see her as a uniter of the party. Lisa Nandy is great on Question Time but that's as far as it goes. Lightweight. I suppose I should like her more because she went to the same school as my sister. :-) Clive Lewis is an interesting character but his campaign isn't getting off the ground as yet. Emily Thornberry just comes across all wrong somehow. Frustratingly, Angela Rayner only wants to be deputy leader. If she were standing for leader I'd support her. Rebecca is strong but the baggage will always haunt her. Not sure about her yet, though she ticks all my leftie boxes. I'm edging away from her a bit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 04 Jan 20 - 04:08 PM

Serious question here with no political bias intended.

A few weeks ago I posted that according to official figure there were 1.2 million people unemployed.

Today I have seen reports that nearly 3.5 million people of working age have never been employed.

Does that mean that 4.7 million people are now currently unemployed?

I realise that SOME people are in the fortunate position that their partner earns sufficient to keep them both but the figure of 3.5 million who have NEVER been employed I find astounding.

Link


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jan 20 - 04:19 PM

Presumably they don’t count as ‘unemployed’ because, as they’ve never actually been employed, they’re not eligible to claim Unemployment Benefit?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Jan 20 - 04:29 PM

From: Raggytash
Date: 04 Jan 20 - 04:08 PM
Serious question here with no political bias intended.
A few weeks ago I posted that according to official figure there were 1.2 million people unemployed.
Today I have seen reports that nearly 3.5 million people of working age have never been employed.
Does that mean that 4.7 million people are now currently unemployed?
I realise that SOME people are in the fortunate position that their partner earns sufficient to keep them both but the figure of 3.5 million who have NEVER been employed I find astounding.


If you read the link in your post you will see that much (not given in figures) of this is about 16-17 year olds who have never had a Saturday job (or, presumably a paper round) who are being included in the figures.
In the past these would have left school and been looking for, or have found, employment. Under recent changes to the age at which they are allowed to end education (unless they secure an apprenticeship or similar) they are now included as "of working age". It's not an increase in unemployment, it's a different way of viewing the figures.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 04 Jan 20 - 05:06 PM

That is why I am asking the question Nigel.

I realise that the way in which the figures are calculated have been doctored by governments of all persuasions to decrease those classed as "unemployed"

I also know that the age of legal employment has been raised.

However you do not address, or answer my question, which was are the 1.2 million (plus) registered as unemployed part of the 3.4 million who, seemingly have NEVER actually been employed.

I have to say though that I am a tad surprised by this figure.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jan 20 - 07:47 PM

Well there are the truly unemployed. The way the figures go, there are far fewer of them than, say, under Thatcher. It's quite important to recognise that "unemployment" has been massaged by all governments for decades. Do you mean just those on jobseekers? Or do you include those without jobs who don't qualify for jobseekers? Do you include the hundreds of thousands who are phoned up every week to be told there's no work and no pay today? How does it go for seasonal workers? What about those young people on fake apprenticeships that involve putting the kettle on and sweeping up after everyone else has gone home? Gig economy - how do we count those when sometimes they work, other times they don't, for sure never getting sick/maternity/holiday pay? How about those on ESA who are routinely hassled by jobcentres and sanctioned at the whim of inhuman jobsworths? Thatcher managed to convince us that unemployment was not rising by putting hundreds of thousands of people thrown out of industrial jobs in steel, the mines and other industries on to "incapacity benefit" when most of them were more than fit for work.

Unemployment statistics are a huge lie. Look for yourself behind the numbers. If employment was so healthy, there would be no-one sleeping rough, no food banks and no-one struggling with rent arrears.

This is the culture promoted by a decade of Toryism. We are told the lie that there are more "in work" than ever before. What they don't tell us is how many of those "in work" are in work today and out tomorrow, or next week. They don't tell us how many in-work people, "in work" by their measure, can't pay their rent or who have to go to food banks. It's a useful lie to tell, because if we are all doing so well the Tories can manage to cut taxes for the rich. You know how it goes...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Jan 20 - 03:47 PM

That is why I am asking the question Nigel.
Then in answer to the question: are the 1.2 million (plus) registered as unemployed part of the 3.4 million who, seemingly have NEVER actually been employed.
The answer has to be that it is impossible to say without having a view of the underlying figures, and even then you'd probably need some form of a Venn diagram to explain the results.
To start, with 8.2 million pupils in school, it would be a reasonable (first approximation) estimate that with school age 4-18 then 2/14 of that number (1.17 million) are 16 & 17 year olds. With the great fall in youth employment (paper rounds etc.) this would be a good start toward the figures quoted.
The figures would also include young mothers who left school to immediately set up home.
I will avoid taking this as anything other than a question with no political bias, although Steve Shaw wants to swing it that way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 05 Jan 20 - 05:48 PM

There is not much point in trying to score political points when it comes to unemployment. It reached an all time low in 1973 under Heath, and an all time high under Thatcher, and now is at an all time low. Is unemployment the result of deliberate government policy, boom and bust economic cycles, internal or external forces or a combination of all? Each party has been guilty of massaging unemployment figures to the extent the raw figures are meaningless when taken in isolation.
"The UK unemployment rate fell to 3.8 percent in the three months to July 2019, back to its joint lowest since the October to December 1974 period and slightly below market expectations of 3.9 percent." Source
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/unemployment-rate
In the EU-28 in 2018, there were on average 3.4 million unemployed persons aged 15-24 and 22.4 million persons of that age group in the labour market, according to the EU labour force survey. This gives a youth unemployment rate of 15.2 %.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/266228/youth-unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/
For the UK the rate is 11.2%, Spain 33%


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 04:30 AM

I wonder which bit of "I realise that the way in which the figures are calculated have been doctored by governments of all persuasions to decrease those classed as "unemployed" he didn't understand.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 04:39 AM

A pure example of trolling by raggy. Will it be deleted?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 05:25 AM

If you consider it trolling, why do you not follow Mudcat advice and ignore it? In the same way that your trolling and flame bait posts are ignored by others.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 05:46 AM

Anyway back to my original question.

How is ANY government allowed to claim that "only" 1.2 million people are unemployed when another figure would indicate that 3.4 million have NEVER been employed.

Is the total figure in fact 4.6 million people unemployed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 06:15 AM

Anyway back to the thread and the great unravelling that is the Labour party( A joy to behold indeed)
Good to see the rejoiner Jess Phillips has been forced to backrack and admit her party must accept the result of the EU referendum - despite previously saying she would campaign to rejoin the EU.
She will make a good shoe in for compo. He could not make up his mind either. I would applaud her election, Churchill had a mere two decades in the political wilderness. How many will Ms pushme pullmeo generate?
It is pertinent to point out that this silly woman was elected in a huge vote leaving constituency. I fail to understand how they elected her, given her stance.However some always fall through the cracks, although how she managed to fall through a crack will be forever a mystery to me. Perhaps it is the madness that is crowds.
The news also explains that the mighty Bojo has a report on his desk to dismantle the Lords. I hope he is very careful about unintended consequences such as that of creating a supreme court and the fixed term parliament act. I have no doubt DC has it all carefully planned. I suspect forthcoming legislation will put the Lords up against a wall, as they cannot veto government legislation.(since the parliament act of 1911) Exciting times for UK democracy and the regaining of sovereignty by taking back control
I see the United states of Europe is most disunited over it's response to the recent Trump foreign policy action. The European Union’s foreign affairs chief, Josep Borrell, issued a personal invitation to his counterpart in Tehran in a bid to de-escalate the tensions in the Middle East. But key member states – Germany, France and the departing United Kingdom – refused to shed a tear for the death of General Soleimani, the second most influential man in Iran.
Good to see the EU federal foreign policy decisions are off to a cracking start.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 06:48 AM

"But key member states – Germany, France and the departing United Kingdom – refused to shed a tear for the death of General Soleimani, the second most influential man in Iran."

An article in the press today:PM calls for restraint


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 07:00 AM

I thought BoJo was in hiding. I guess they must have found him. Was he in the fridge?I

:D


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 07:53 AM

“I have no doubt DC has it all carefully planned.”

Hilarious, coming from one of those wazzocks who loudly and regularly denounced the EU because ‘it is run by unelected bureaucrats’!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 09:20 AM

Hilarious, coming from one of those wazzocks who loudly and regularly denounced the EU because ‘it is run by unelected bureaucrats

Even more hilarious coming fron a leftard that does not understand the parliamentary process. Do you seriously believe ministers draft legislation or do ministers and advisors? Having drafted it, it must pass scrutiny by both chambers and be successfully voted into law.
Restricting the vote to the mentally agile has much to recommend it.

Meanwhile as if labour does not have enough tribulations, good old guido has uncovered another labour candidate that will create yet another investigation into labour by the Equality and Human Rights Commission.
Labour’s Chetan Harpale has in the last few months tweeted about “Londonistan“, the ‘so-called peaceful religion’, and shared a message calling Pakistani Muslims “a stain on this planet.”
He is the candidate for the safe Labour ward of Alperton, for a by-election on 23 January. For how much longer I ask myself?
Here is the link for the lefties to chew over:

https://order-order.com/2020/01/06/labour-candidate-shared-message-calling-pakistani-muslims-stain-planet/#disqus_thread

and for those concerned about dodgy statistics on unemployment here is the original document from the hoss's mouth rather than it's arse:
https://www.resolutionfoundation.org/app/uploads/2020/01/Never-ever.pdf
Perhaps the author's were humanity grads. When the Royal Statistical Society recently tested the ability of honourable members to answer a relatively simple mathematical question.
if you spin a coin twice, what is the probability of getting two heads?* 53% of tories got it right, and despite copious quantities of mathermagic 77% of Labour got it rong.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 09:42 AM

So, um, *were* any kept? Campaign promises, I mean, not politicians.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 09:53 AM

They've not been in power a month yet Mrrzy, however there were indications in the first week that pledges are to be ignored.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 10:12 AM

The main one, Mrrzy, was the pledge to leave the EU with an "oven ready" deal. In the first week that was put in doubt by making any extension to leaving illegal. This means that if no deal is reached in time we will leave without a deal. Of course we all hope that a good deal will be achieved and there is time yet but it does show that BoJo's statement that he had a deal already was a lie. Everyone seemed to know that he is a pathological liar but voted for him.anyway. As they say, there's nowt so queer as folk!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 10:30 AM

”Even more hilarious coming fron a leftard that does not understand the parliamentary process. Do you seriously believe ministers draft legislation or do ministers and advisors? Having drafted it, it must pass scrutiny by both chambers and be successfully voted into law.””

I understand the parliamentary process very well thank you. It’s you Brexit-Bumpkins who failed to understand that similar, almost identical processes exist in the EU - hence the stupidity of your claims that we need to leave the EU because it is ‘run by unelected bureaucrats’.

I’ve lost count of the number of times I asked Leave-voters what they thought the House of Lords and the Civil Service were, only to be met with blank stares...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 11:05 AM

With luck before the end of the year we can have oven ready chlorinated chickens, unless the loser barrister, that clubs foxes to death, has a winning streak. No deal is a useful club to make the EU behave. German car makers would be most upset with no deal. Meanwhile let the moaners rewmoan. Since the election they are best ignored, no numbers equals no infuence- Good. After 3 years of leftie procrastination and sabotage the peoples majority vote of 2016 can now be respected.
I see to vote in the labour elections 25£ must cross palms. They obviously despise deplorables. Another vote winner for metropolitan labour. I suspect the labour wilderness is fast becoming off planet, the news just keeps getting better.
What did bojo say?Get brexit done:
What did labour say besides come away with the faeries? The electorate smote them mightily!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 04:45 PM

The main one, Mrrzy, was the pledge to leave the EU with an "oven ready" deal. In the first week that was put in doubt by making any extension to leaving illegal. This means that if no deal is reached in time we will leave without a deal. Of course we all hope that a good deal will be achieved and there is time yet but it does show that BoJo's statement that he had a deal already was a lie

That was not my understanding of the oven-ready deal. My understanding was that it was a deal acceptable to the EU, and for which Parliament would vote, thus enabling us to leave the EU (on 31 Jan). There will still be negotiations to see what future trading terms will be, but that will be after we are out with the oven-ready deal.
As such it is not a broken pledge, it is one that will be completed on time on 31 Jan 2020.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 04:51 PM

From: Iains
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 11:05 AM
I see to vote in the labour elections 25£ must cross palms. They obviously despise deplorables. Another vote winner for metropolitan labour.


What a coincidence, £25- could also get you membership of the Conservative Party (Under 23s £5-, Armed Forces £15-).
If someone's going to spend £25 wouldn't it better to spend it joining a winning team?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 05:38 PM

I think Mrrzy is quite capable of making up her own mind Nigel. The fact remains that the GAP has told so many lies it has become necessary to doubt his every word. I do hope he does have a deal lined up but until the ink is dry, I will not believe it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 05:51 PM

Nigel. Ideology outrules common sense.
Labour is almost skint. They want to lay off most of their payroll. The unions say no. The unions also heavily bankroll Labour.
Everything labour touches of late has turned to ashes. How sad! It is also pertinent to point out that should the Equality and Human Rights Commission find labour guilty of antisemitism then it is likely the resultant lawsuits will totally bankrupt the party. If there are any sensible labour MPs left after the recent cull they would be wise to split and form another party and leave corbynites and momentum in the wilderness where they belong.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 06:02 PM

I've put this in the war thread as well. The attack in Iran has potentially nobbled the UK's pledge to "take back control." Trump has form. You can bet your life that the UK getting onside with the US over Iran will be an absolute condition of our getting a trade deal. We will go cap in hand to Trump. Hey, brexiteers, did you see that on your ballot paper? :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 06:14 PM

Why do we bother keeping up the pretence that Britain is a democracy...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 06:39 PM

"should the Equality and Human Rights Commission find labour guilty of antisemitism"

.. and I'd prefer a new labour leader who has backbone to stand up and fight back
against malicious false accusers...

I just found an old photo of my Polish Jewish family lines's entire community
being rounded up for deportation and extermination
by the nazis...

Now that was real anti-Semitism...

The kind of anti-Semitism still most likely to be ingrained in the worst far right tories...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Mossback
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 06:40 PM

Now here's something else that belongs in two threads: Who is the bigger lying sack of shit and threat to democratic government world-wide: Trump or Johnson??


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 07:06 PM

The correct answer to that, Bill, is "yes." :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 09:37 PM

The UK is a democracy; with more cameras watching people than people watching cameras, secret police, odd elections, a slow steady transposition of values, useful clown heads of state and a polarized population. You know like the US.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 02:28 AM

Why do we bother keeping up the pretence that Britain is a democracy...???
OH dear oh dear. Yet another whining remainiac loser.

Democracy was restored in the UK when the rebels and traitors became chlorinated turkeys in time for Christmas, after a thorough trouncing in the polls. As a result Bojo could finally honour his promise "to get brexit done" by way of a landslide majority. Democracy restored.
The prosecco kid is obviously still sore that after all his hubris he lost.

There is a God in Heaven


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 03:38 AM

Iains wrote: There is a God in Heaven
He wont like that!


   ^    ^
[O] [O]   
    ..
   
\______/


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 05:43 AM

I think Mrrzy is quite capable of making up her own mind Nigel. The fact remains that the GAP has told so many lies it has become necessary to doubt his every word. I do hope he does have a deal lined up but until the ink is dry, I will not believe it.

I agree that Mrrzy is quite capable. I was just pointing out that your (implied) assumption that the 'oven-ready deal' relates to December 2020 may not be the true implied meaning from Boris Johnson. I believe that it applied to January 2020, and was the replacement for May's deal which couldn't pass Parliament, and which included details on Northern Ireland which would allow for an agreement by the EU allowing us to leave 'with a deal' in January although there are now further details to be sorted out by the end of 2020.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 06:11 AM

I think you’re probably correct, Nigel, although I think his use of the term ‘oven-ready’ is a deliberate Dom ‘n’ Dumberism intended to deceive the electorate into believing that the entire business of leaving with trade and customs agreements in place by the end of 2020 is a foregone conclusion.

Of course, you and I are intelligent enough to know that that is far from being the case and, in fact, a crash-out with no such agreements at the end of 2020 is an odds-on bet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 07:59 AM

I must say I do like tha caliber of the prospective Labour leadership candidates.
I cannot decide what they need most:
A deckchair management course for the Titanic?
or perhaps
A Bear Gryll's course on wilderness survival?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 08:02 AM

Not a very auspicious start!

Can any of the Brexiteers on here explain why the UK is pursuing trade deals which include free movement, when a major part of the Leave campaign was based on their objection to free movement, and a desire to ‘control immigration’?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 08:11 AM

Aussies are OK, BWM. They speak English and don't eat garlic...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 08:20 AM

I suspect that the UK will suffer many rebuttals in it's negotiations in the next few months and years. To some extent the UK may be viewed as a pariah.

Some of us expected as much. Time alone will tell.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 08:44 AM

”They speak English”

Of a sort... ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 08:51 AM

Nigel, make a mental note that Mrrzy is male, not female. His second hand familial experience with the diplomatic corps and avatar may have confused you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 09:04 AM

"OH dear oh dear. Yet another whining remainiac loser."

sneered with the venomous belligerence of an active supporter of a tyrannical dictatorship...

All Dissenters beware....


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 09:06 AM

Donuel, make a mental note to read carefully before commenting.
I didn't use any gender or pronoun about Mrrzy except in a direct quote of Dave's comment:
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 05:38 PM
I think Mrrzy is quite capable of making up her own mind Nigel.


However, if I had made such a mistake, it would be understandable when commenting on a member whose membership name on the forum gives no clue as to gender.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 09:12 AM

Btw.. I voted remain as at that time as I was too sceptical of the typical leaver reasoning and arguments..

But I could have been open to considering intelligent reasonable honest objective persuasion..

If there'd seriously been any...

But all I head were nasty vindictive insulting leaver fanatics...
Who only got increasingly more vicious.. even though they won..


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 09:16 AM

"heard"...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 09:20 AM

I wonder if Stanron and Nigel find Iains to be an embarrassing liability to their side,
rather than a trusty attack dog...????


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 09:31 AM

Oh thats what italics mean in Nigelese. sorry.

Iains practically has some leavers on a leash. I prefer cats myself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 09:35 AM

punkfolkrocker wrote: I wonder if Stanron and Nigel find Iains to be an embarrassing liability to their side
I don't find Iains's posts embarrassing. They are a refreshing alternative to the rather tedious group think that comes from the other side. I find your contributions can be a pleasant change as well but in a different kind of way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 09:56 AM

It was me that made the mistake, Donuel. I had in mind that the poster named Mrrzy had mentioned being female but my memory must be faulty.

Apologies if required mrrzy. In my defence, as your posts are measured and reasonable rather than the usual sabre rattling variety, it was an easy mistake to make :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 10:04 AM

Stan - Thanks.. I try my best to remain reasonable and objective,
though my sense of sardonic absurdist humour and sarcasm
does get a bit too carried away at times...

I depair more than I celebrate in British politics...

I don't know who, what, or how many post under the "Iains" ID..
But amongst the multiple personalities on display, is an interesting bloke
with life experiences worth hearing about.

But I rarely encounter that "Iains" in these few BS threads I bother with...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 10:19 AM

Donuel, thanks for bringing it to mind. I must check if my rabies shots are still valid. Sometimes a mere leash is insufficient, declawing and a compulsory muzzle are oftimes vital requisites.
I must say the usual leftie insults of stupid, waycist, bigot etc etc have diminished in recent days. No doubt due to a distinct lack of credibility post 12/12.
Interesting the Libdumb remaining wraiths are trying to scupper Nigel's brexit party in London due the end of january.

Meanwhile compo has had a bit of a shuffle, according to Guido. He has yet to decide on his shadow minister of walkies, whose resposibility will be to formulate plans for wilderness travelling, hopefully dodging any burning bushes, if Oz is owt to go by!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 01:22 PM

If you want something refreshing, Stanron, I suggest that Heineken is a better alternative :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 02:04 PM

No alcohol for me now until Jan 31, and even then it won't be any kind of lager. If I wanted beer it would be a pint of Hydes Anvil at the Jolly Angler but getting out and back without driving is too much faff these days. I'll get a couple of bottles of some craft beer from a supermarket and top it up with some whiskey with an E.

In the meantime refreshing me right now is some cold tea and lemonade. I should sell it in cans.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 02:11 PM

"....with an E"...??????????

You're a hardcore all night Rave dancer... innit... resprec' bruv...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 03:56 PM

Labour suffered its worst defeat since 1935 in the December 2019 general election and the party is now desperately trying to rebuild its image in an effort to win back voters. But a recent poll suggests party chiefs have a lot of work to do, as two thirds of Britons haven’t heard of any of the candidates in the running to be the next Labour leader. The Deltapoll, seen by The Daily Telegraph, found that respondents didn’t even recognise frontrunners Sir Keir Starmer and Rebecca Long Bailey - even when shown their photographs.
Rebecca Long Bailey, is simply a female corbyn clone. Her election would be a total farce seeing as the electorate heartily rejected compo and all who sailed with him.
Are Labour actively seeking wilderness years? It certainly seems so to me. The power of analysis and application of lessons learnt is sadly lacking in the labour camp. They appear to believe that filling the blogosphere with "we won the argument" is sufficient to make friends and influence people. Have I got news for them!
I think the British people deserve better of an opposition party than the dregs that are on offer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 04:14 PM

I was going to say don't mix drink and drugs but you beat me to the idea PFR!

Not had a pint of Hydes for ages, Stanron. Last time was in the Grey Horse on Portland Street. Had a cracking impromptu session after a guitar show at what was UMIST. Still doesn't refresh parts other beers cannot reach though.:-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 05:17 PM

Apart from the fact that Becky Long-Bailey is anything but a clone of anybody, anyone else notice the disgusting piece of misogyny that appeared to compel the poster to point out that she is female?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 06:04 PM

anyone else notice the disgusting piece of misogyny that appeared to compel the poster to point out that she is female?
Oh Dear oh dear, the prosecco kid is losing his marbles, as is young beckie.

.@RLong_Bailey tells @PaulBrandITV she would give @jeremycorbyn's leadership of @UKLabour a '10 out of 10' and says he was 'one of the most honest, kind, principled politicians'
No doubt abbacus would give 12 out of 10. It is worth pointing out that compo scored 202 out of 650.This rather suggests RLB's scoring system is fatally flawed. As will be the labour party of course, if they elect him/her/it as leader. (Trying to be PC in the LGTG world is a challenge) The left has some very sensitive souls when they encounter life's harsh realities such as winning the argument yet losing the battle. History generally teaches might is right.

I recommend you peruse the comments on Guido's piece, you appear to need the education.

https://order-order.com/2020/01/07/non-continuity-becky-gives-corbyn-10-10/#disqus_thread
A flavour below:
Hats off to Alison Pearson for nailing RLB perfectly in her most recent column, and I quote "The shadow business secretary, who looks like the love child of the Roswell alien and Mrs Merton". Add in a dose of the brains of Olive from On the Buses and you are just about there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 08:12 PM

Why does it seem the tories and even further right
are far more obsessed with the Labour party
than perhaps most average Labour voters are...!!!??????????

Personally, I've got more pressing priorities to care about..

..until I'm next required to vote,
then I'll give the Labour party a reasonable minimum amount of thought...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 08:29 PM

Well I know we're supposed to be blanking the troll, but I just knew that attacking him for his blatant misogyny (to add to all his other defects) would bring out a vile, purulent piece of sexist venom from him. What a baby. What a sucker. Anyway, back to blanking him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 08:52 PM

"As will be the labour party of course, if they elect him/her/it as leader. (Trying to be PC in the LGTG world is a challenge)"

"Him/her/it," eh? As it happens, Becky is happily married and has a son. Shame you didn't check. Sounds to me like YOU have some kind of insecurity over your own, er, "place" in the sexual context of the current world. Hey, don't worry, mate! You can tell us! We understand! None of that far-right skinheaddery of the kind you subscribe to in THIS cabal! Know what I mean, ducks? ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 02:43 AM

I wonder why they are obsessed with looks as well. It's not as if their pin up boys are exactly George Clooney lookalikes. Farage? Griffin? Come on! People in glass houses...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 04:07 AM

Only the deluded loons of the left would try to make an accusation of misogyny when a female prospective labour leadership candidate is referred to as a FEMALE.
The scale of their recent defeat must have addled their brains, especially the prosecco kid. What a clown! I assume your last post was after quaffing yet another bottle. It shows, you know.
No insecurities with me you silly boy, I have a spiffing party to go to come the end of the month. I do not believe you and your also ran fellow posting remoaners have an invite. Life is full of pleasant surprises.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/politics/aliens-among-us-running-leader-labour-party/

The labour party must be congratulated for their perspicacity in the choice of such a candidate. It guarantees that:
ps good to see the cabal wannabe bullies lining up one behind the other. Your removal would make this forum far more pleasant.

So now they will go off and cry and get this post removed.
1)They have learnt nothing from their epic defeat
2) They will never hold the reins of power again.
By even contemplating such a move they do nothing but demonstrate their contempt for their electorate.
Now I know you loonies argue this point repeatedly but sovereignty lies with the people.
Hint! This is why Bojo is in
and magic grandad is out.
Slow learners, or what?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 04:18 AM

Interesting how that last post managed to get jumbled up. Nothing is sacred in cyberspace.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 05:31 AM

Your problem with women clearly addled your brain.

Begod, John Dave and Raggytash, I'm weak... but this was too good to pass up... a true misogynist has outed himself. Thank God for him that Thatcher wasn't actually a woman...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 06:05 AM

An interesting report from Guido this morning concerning members of the former shadow off itself labour party.

https://order-order.com/2020/01/08/labour-shadow-cabinet-drown-sorrows/
Rats is a sack springs to mind!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 06:52 AM

”Begod, John Dave and Raggytash, I'm weak... but this was too good to pass up...”

I understand where you’re coming from Steve but, TBH, I really have not the slightest interest in anything a Fanboi (perhaps even an employee) of a criminal, drink-driver, Right-Wing-Extremist blogger has to say, and I refuse to allow myself to sink to the bottom of the pond by reacting to his constant trumpeting of his hero’s propaganda, and his insulting, flame-baiting behaviour.

Just let him rattle on - no matter his claims of the reverse, there is a mountain of evidence, on numerous threads, of his insulting, abusive, flame-baiting and trolling. On any other forum, he would have been kicked into touch a very long time ago but, sadly, he seems to have ‘friends’ amongst ‘da management’ - there is no other logical explanation for his being allowed to behave in the way he does.

It’s pointless trying to debate with him because he changes position, wriggles like a serpent, and accuses his opponents of the very abuses he, himself, perpetrates.

There is only one way to deal with him, and that is by completely blanking him. Others can do as they like, but that’s my intention going forward.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 06:54 AM

Interesting, though, to see the flaws in his character. He's just added misogyny to the racism we've highlighted before, and he does appear to have some difficulties with gender matters...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 06:57 AM

As my old mum used to say - “He says owt but his prayers”.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 07:19 AM

He certainly sits on the far-right hand of the Father... :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 08:06 AM

Of the Fatherland? :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 08:09 AM

LOL! Many a true word spoken in jest! ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 08:16 AM

"So now they will go off and cry and get this post removed."

..so why were my innocuous posts rebutting your silliness deleted just a few days ago..
on a very slow day, when basically only you and I were posting...???????


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 08:35 AM

Said removal of my posts [and one of DtG's] were only to your benefit,
serving to leave you looking
less gratuitously antagonistic and hypocritical than we know you were, and still are...

That was a lucky whitewash for you from a mod, wasn't it...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 08:40 AM

Best not complain too much about deletions. I'd far rather see his racism, misogyny, gender issues, his invoking of far-right scumbags (in the press, online, or otherwise, who knows...) and all his other defects left here for all to see.

I see that the EU is beginning to play hardball over the deal negotiations...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 08:52 AM

oops.. i accidentally misspelled "a lucky whitewash for you from a god""...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 08:59 AM

Steve - not complaining about deletions,
merely mentioning that as specific context,
for pointing out his/[their ?] blatant self pitiful 'playing the victim' whinging...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 09:36 AM

Good to see the jackals out, attacking with the ferocity of a comatose amoeba.
Hilarious Good Morning Britain show today. They did a fine job of eviscerating the compo clone wannabbe leader Rebecca Long-Bailey.
(In deference to the lefties) he/she/it was ripped apart for suggesting compo was magic personified and should reign for ever and ever.
"After her comments were read aloud, the host declared: “I’m afraid Rebecca Wrong Bailey, your party was savaged by the voters, your own voters.
“A lot of working class, Northern Labour voters to their boot straps, marched and voted for the posh Etonian.
“And you know why, because you betrayed them on Brexit. You went back on your word. It had nothing to do with nasty media,” he continued."

Are you yo-yos going to crowdfund her wilderness training? She is going to need it.
I can predict with absolute confidence she is never going to make it to number 19.
A joyful toon for me


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 09:43 AM

Pure Gold!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFna4W_r1BY


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 09:57 AM

The hypocrisy is mindblowing, pfr.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 10:10 AM

Though completely predictable and expected...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 10:24 AM

If I just say 300 would it be a Spartan post?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 10:27 AM

isn't 'spartan' when a Scotsman gets his kilt painfully tangled up with his sporran...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 10:53 AM

Isn't 300 the number of pints of Tartan keg bitter you had to drink to get pissed?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 11:03 AM

Just been listening to Thangam Debbonaire (Shadow Brexit Minister) on BBC Live House of Commons. An articulate, intelligent, clear-thinking woman. Very impressive.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 11:03 AM

In your case perhaps. Might I suggest:
Call our National Helpline
FREE on
0800 9177 650


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 12:19 PM

Iains has to all intents and purposes
reduced himself to the role of
old pub nutter
sat in the corner burbling away to himself and his imaginary dog...

The Landlord whispers to newcomers to the pub..

" see that old.. errrmmm.. character in the corner, he used to be such a clever well educated chap..
Apparently somebody very important in his field of work.
until something traumatic happened and he lost the plot completely..
So sad really, but you'll get used to him if you drink here regularly..
It's safe to say hello to him, just don't mention politics anywhere within his hearing.. ever...
"


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 12:27 PM

I believe he used to play melodeon for a Morris team at one time. I think some right wing nutters tried to hijack it. Maybe that unhinged him?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 12:44 PM

Well that's very interesting is that, Dave...

Pfr, from his posting history and the fact that he isn't always strictly honest, I think there's very good reason to doubt the first two lines of your italics...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 12:46 PM

"should the Equality and Human Rights Commission find labour guilty of antisemitism"

.. and I'd prefer a new labour leader who has backbone to stand up and fight back
against malicious false accusers...


Ahem!!!!!(By Mailonline 8 January 2020 )

Metropolitan Police Commissioner Dame Cressida Dick told LBC that six people were arrested last year as part of the inquiry - and that five files have been passed to the Crown Prosecution Service by her detectives.

The investigation was prompted by an internal Labour dossier detailing anti-Semitic messages on social media allegedly posted by party members, which was obtained by the radio station in 2018.
Terrible things facts!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 12:58 PM

6 out of how many total members...?????

you like percentages... dontcha..


If this 6 and any others hauled in are guilty,
then the law and Labour should stamp down hard on them...
simple as that...

The Conservative party now needs to be just as transparent and proactive as Labour,
in seeking independent public investigation of it's own members and institutionalised racism...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 01:11 PM

What? When the leader of the party talks about Pickaninnies, water melon smiles and tank top bum boys? Surely you jest PFR!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 01:13 PM

Six is one in a hundred thousand, pfr. So that's 0.00001% of members. I wonder what the chance is of being run over by a London bus. I wonder how many BNP sympathisers, for example, have been arrested for hate crimes...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 01:20 PM

or how many Britain First have just joined the tories...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 01:29 PM

Well, they reckon 5000 but I doubt if Britain First had 5000 members to start with!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 02:26 PM

Who could we ask...?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 02:39 PM

All those members you boast about but still you lost!
DIANE Abbott has been told to “stay away” from Rebecca Long-Bailey’s Labour leadership campaign by a Brexit Party MEP who warned the shadow home secretary her campaign has “suffered enough”. pure comedy
Despite young rebecca's claims to be one of the downtrodden masses she is married to a multimillionaire. A tad duplicitous!
Labour MPs blasted Jeremy Corbyn's 'boring' loyalist Rebecca Long Bailey after she made her opening leadership pitch to the parliamentary party last night, savaging her performance as 'like watching paint dry'.
A ringing endorsement doncha think?

This was in contrast to rivals Jess Phillips and Lisa Nandy, who were applauded after calling for a change in political direction after the party's disastrous general election which saw it reduced to just 202 MPs.
Well I guess a couple have repented and seen the light. Are they numerically challenged though? Perhaps abbacus could aid them instead with a little mathemagic.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 03:07 PM

I suspect that the Conservatives would have most to fear from a Labour leader who had been in favour of Brexit and was at the right of the party. Is anyone like that standing?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 03:10 PM

shhh... don't look directly at him.. is he talking to us, or his imaginary dog...???

I'll go up and get us a round in when he takes a breath and starts leafing through the Mail again...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 03:11 PM

Not talking about you Stan... you're welcome for a good chat where I sit any time...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 03:22 PM

I don't think whether they were for or against brexit will make much difference since we are leaving anyway, Stanron. Unless of course we crash and burn. At which point a remainer could say "I told you so!" .


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 03:25 PM

it would be very unwise to say 'I told you so', even with the most extreme caution. It could so easily be spun as 'They are calling you thick and ignorant again.'


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 03:39 PM

Whoever becomes Labour leader will be targeted for non stop smears & vilification
by the combined forces and wealth of both domestic and international far right..

Even if Christ himself came back and landed the job...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 03:41 PM

If we have already crashed and burned I think that would be the least of our worries, D :-( But, it's all speculation anyway and hopefully it will all turn out for the best.

Do unicorns fly as well as pigs?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 04:26 PM

Six is one in a hundred thousand, pfr. So that's 0.00001% of members

You only need one bad apple to spoil a barrel! As a well educated scientist/biolgist/zoologist/educationalst blah di blah, you would of course know this salient fact.
The party is under a three pronged onslaught:
1)The DPP
2)Ongoing further investigation by the Police
3)and of course an official investigation by the government appointed          Equality and Human Rights Commission.
A fair to middling chance the number found guilty will be considerably more than one.
The Labour party has had the allegations of antisemitism hanging over it for years and done nothing.(everyone knows that the investigation by chuckleberry was a total farce)
Anyway I will take pity on you and provide the link below on wilderness survival. I suspect you will need it. Life in the boonies is a challenge for the inept.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61BJVO5YslY


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 05:20 PM

And in which barrel are you the rotten apple? You are a self-declared liar, a racist, a misogynist and you have gender issues. That fits one or two far-right barrels I can think of. Care to elucidate? Or are you going to do your usual cowardly sidestep into "ridiculing" anyone to the left of Genghis Khan? You're quick to put everyone else into boxes, so now tell us who you are. Not that we don't already know...

You must have a bloody big hole somewhere you can crawl back into. You might have to clean your ordure out of it first, of course.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 05:38 PM

Clive Lewis acquitted himself very well last night, despite the despicable bad manners of Emily Maitlis, who seemed determined not to let him get a full sentence out. It was just one of those "who is he?" moments...

Starmer seems to be the Labour MPs' pick. He's a likeable bloke but he's a London man, a man, a man in a suit and the ultimate fence-sitter. Jess and Lisa claim to be unity candidates but they both briefed against Corbyn like buggery for years and helped the Tories in. If that's unity then that beats me. Emily T did the same and comes across as incredibly patronising. For me, it's Becky Long-Bailey. Any one of the six has got to show grit in fighting off the Express and Mail and all the other anti-democrat liars in our midst. And she would give Johnson a bloody hard time (which is why his acolytes in the media are going ballistic on her already. They're running scared). It's an illusion that Becky is the only one with baggage. All six have in their different ways. But she's grounded, she's tough, she's a socialist and she's a gritty northerner. That'll do me. If I voted for anyone else I'd be going against my principles. I'm not doing it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 05:53 PM

"You only need one bad apple to spoil a barrel!"

meaningless drivel - but you already know that..

Yet you can't stop digging your hole..

So for you, generalising from 6 out of 600,000 [a bloody huge barrel innit..]
is not too far off you saying..
"a shifty looking 'foreigner' asked me on the street for 20p,
therefore, all 'foreigners' are beggars, and probably thieves as well"...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 06:09 PM

Iaians. Don't know the origin of your data, but 1 in 100,000 is actually .001% Just saying.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 06:16 PM

I must admit that I tussled with the numbers of zeros, robo, but I made it 0.00001%. I think we can at least agree that it's "not a lot!" :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 06:20 PM

My ideal candidate would be someone who rose up from the factory floor
or similar real working class origins,
self educated through part time adult study,
talks in the common vernacular,
and will fight back hard when falsely accused and attacked...
Tough, solid integrity, robust wit and humour, and inspiringly charismatic...

Well, I can dream...

Please, not another bloody rich toff in a designer suit... please...


What's the chances of that then...???

Basically, I'll probably just have to put up with whoever the tory media, and toxic right wing rabbis, choose to let lead Labour


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 06:31 PM

Becky Long-Bailey and Angela Rayner tick most of your boxes, I reckon....


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 06:36 PM

My mrs can't stand Jess Philips..

I'm not over keen on her either..

But one thing I will say in her favour,
is she strikes me as a bit of a scrapper who will stand up to bullies...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 06:45 PM

“Shall there be womanly times? Or shall we die?” (Ian McEwan)

Just like Iains, Johnson is an arch-misogynist. He runs scared of strong-minded women. Why, even Bozo's girlfriend forced him to "get off me! " Blimey, even Jo Swinson made mincemeat of him in the Commons a few weeks ago. I suppose PMQ isn't really a game-changer, but what a contest it could be if Becky got her teeth into the unprepared silly posh sod. I can just see it...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 06:46 PM

I agree, but she has hardly helped Corbyn since he was elected. I'm not quite sure what she actually is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 07:11 PM

Robomatic. I merely copied and pasted the erroneous data. It was our resident well educated educationalist wot got it rong. Quelle surprise!
The cabal all talk as though they have a viable opposition. To me this indicates numeracy is sadly lacking in their camp. You have to admit they are providing stunning entertainment. But when you look at their leader below, that they blindly follow, words fail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--XmfUXsdyE

Looks like magic grandad believes in a scorched earth policy. A Carcrash in the commons does not begin to describe events at question time.
I doubt labour can ever recover from this.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 08:02 PM

Note his utter inability to respond to the very valid questions as to who he really is...typical. We have more than suspicions. Funny how the net can close in.... One or two hints have recently been dropped. Good job he has two buttocks. You need 'em so that you can shift uncomfortably from one to the other. Notable that he is rather nervily having a much later night than usual. Sweet dreams, Staines puppet!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 08:59 PM

His use of English language is getting ever more torturous and over convoluted...

Like a foreign propaganda bot churning it's cogs over limited variations of preprogrammed phrases and cliches
before it overheats and implodes.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 09:04 PM

He didn't like one of his man crushes being jokingly referred to as Dominic Cumsock... did he..


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 09:10 PM

God no. I noticed that. There are definite issues here...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 09:28 PM

Out of fairness, and because I'm considerate of the sensitivities of other folks...

I'll amend it to the more tory all boys boarding school culture appropriate
"Dominic Cumbiscuit"...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 09:34 PM

"Staines puppet!"

sorry.. just noticed too late.. but still can't resist..

"Cumsock stains puppet"....


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 09:54 PM

It's always Cumberdick Bendybatch in our house...

There something oddly appropriate about "bendy" in this current context...can't quite put my finger on it...not that I'd want to...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 10:14 PM

That something you allude to is the glue that binds the tory upper echelons together..
Shared boarding dorm experiences and memories that can be used against old school friends, rivals, and enemies
to blackmail each other into toeing the party line...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 01:22 AM

Iains:

Sorry about confusing the source. Also about getting your name wrong. That was unintentional.

Yes it's a small number. But when you add the % mark you make your number 100 times smaller, so you're supposed to take out two of the zeros. As a portion of an electorate anyplace but India or China it doesn't seem much. As a dosage of cyanide, it might matter. Or benzine. Or radiation.

While it may not matter much for the purpose of this discussion, it's an indicator of attention to detail. As in, this guy might be a good cook, but he ain't no baker.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 03:00 AM

PFR. You said you wanted someone from a proper working class background.

Rebecca Roseanne Long-Bailey[1] was born on 22 September 1979[2] in Old Trafford, Greater Manchester, to Irish parents.[3] Her father, Jimmy Long, was a Salford docker and a trade union representative at Shell, Barton Docks.[4] She attended Chester Catholic High School.[5]

She began her working life serving customers in a pawn shop, something she says "taught [her] more about the struggles of life than any degree or qualification ever could." She also worked in various call centres, a furniture factory, and in postal delivery before eventually studying to become a solicitor.[6]


Will that do?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 03:36 AM

One of the problems many commentators have, but especially those on the left, is that they underestimate the significance of things that should not matter in the least, but do. So Rebecca will get less votes than Becky, Jess will get more votes than Jessica Rose, as Tony did than Anthony, Boris did than Alexander and probably Maggie did than Margaret would have.

It is mad, not doubt, but it is not insignificant.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 04:01 AM

Onward and upward, I say.
A toon for the cabal:

On the road to nowhere


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 05:01 AM

THE LABOUR leadership election process began this week with six candidates in line to replace Jeremy Corbyn. One contender, once an outsider in the running for the role, has seen their odds shorten recently with one bookmaker saying the contest is now a "three-horse race".

or as one pundit said " A three horse race for a three legged horse"


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 06:07 AM

Well if you're known all your life as Becky or Jess that's how you project yourself, I guess.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 06:56 AM

I’m not sure about RLB Steve. Although I like her, and see her as an intelligent, articulate, strong woman, I can’t help but feel that she will be seen by voters as a ‘Corbynette’, which won’t be good for the LP.

I think I’d prefer Clive Lewis to RLB. But maybe I’d go for KS...I dunno. Although, as I’m not a member, it really doesn’t matter what I think! ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 08:07 AM

...and at the end of the day, where I vote the tories always get in...


Was there rumours they plan rejigging constituency boundaries even more in their favour
for future elections...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 08:44 AM

Was there rumours they plan rejigging constituency boundaries even more in their favour
for future elections...???
Pure myth!
The reality:
The Parliamentary Constituencies Act 1986 (as amended in 2011) required the four Boundary Commissions for the UK to carry out a review of constituencies and to submit final reports to Government in September 2018. Parliament specified that the 2018 Review must reduce the number of constituencies, and therefore MPs, in the UK, to 600. It asked us, as an independent and impartial body, to consider where the boundaries of the new constituencies in England should be, ensuring that every new constituency (except two for the Isle of Wight) has roughly the same number of electors: no fewer than 71,031 and no more than 78,507.

If left as at present there is a faint possibility that the bias towards Labour in the present boundaries would create another nightmare on corbyn street,

It is generally held that constituency boundaries at present favour labour by a combination of gerrymandering and malapportionment,
https://www.geog.ox.ac.uk/research/transformations/gis/papers/dannydorling_publication_id1322.pdf


https://research-information.bris.ac.uk/files/102177649/Gerrymander.pdf
Terrible things facts (unless a guardianista)


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 09:09 AM

Well.. you can always rely on the tory party to conduct a clean fair honourable election campaign...
Despite all the odds the nasty Labour party have stacked against the poor downtrodden tories..


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 09:22 AM

But all sarcasm aside, Iains response does tend to positively support suspicions
the tories do plan rejigging constituency boundaries even more in their favour
for future elections...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 09:34 AM

On page 48 of the Conservative Manifesto it says:

We will ensure we have updated and
equal Parliamentary boundaries,
making sure that every vote counts the
same – a cornerstone of democracy.

So yes, they will do that (to the extent any manifesto commitment is binding)


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 09:39 AM

"We will ensure we have updated and
equal Parliamentary boundaries,
making sure that every vote counts the
same
– a cornerstone of democracy.
"

Gasp... what.. me and my mum's votes will finally get us a Labour MP in Scrumpyshire...!!!!!???



Just a note, my mum is 87.. so if the kindly tories can hurry up with our magic new boundaries...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 10:32 AM

"The Boundary Commission sent over its final recommendations for the new parliamentary boundaries in September 2018.

The Commission said it was “confident” its new map would be the best outcome for the future of parliament.

In 2011, MPs in parliament backed the principle of undertaking a reduction in the number of MPs.

The law requires the size and shape of parliamentary boundaries are periodically reviewed to keep updated with demographic changes which influence a number of eligible electors in each area.

The last review took place in the mid-noughties, which ensured changes were enacted for the 2010 general election."(wales 2006, Englanf 2008, N Ireland 2007, scotland 2005)

The proposed changes are twofold?:
1)Shrink the number of snouts in the trough.
2)To ensure the numbers of the electorate in each constituency are equal.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1198254/election-2019-boundary-changes-effect-2019-general-election
It has to be pointed out the author of the article is a total idiot for asking how the changes would impact the december election. How a future event can possibly impact a past event totally escapes me. These changes have not been before parliament and hence have not been enacted. THe election was fought on 2010 constituency boundaries.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 01:43 PM

It’s finally happened: a Brexit Bill has passed the Commons.

Ayes – 330

Noes – 231

off to the Lords next.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 02:17 PM

Do some folks not have anything more interesting or important in their lives...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 02:53 PM

It is very important to the 17.4 million majority that voted for brexit and had to endure 3.5 years of remainiac stalling and demands for a second referendum because it was so unfair.
Well 12/12 settled your hash bigtime. We're OFF!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 02:59 PM

like I said...


But I'd hope for the future mental health of our nation,
that only a minority of the 17.4 million are such obsessed fanatics...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 03:05 PM

btw.. who are these "remainiacs" I hear so much about...???

I could possibly have been persuaded to vote leave
[in fact I was open mined to good persuasion...]
if it hadn't been for all the aggressively abusive leaver nutcases
shouting so loud above any sensible honest leave campaigners...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 03:07 PM

None of the six hopefuls are going to escape serial slagging by the gutter press and the criminal idiot Staines (and his friend here - wonder why anyone would proudly throw his lot in with a bloke like that, unless...?). The judgement is going to be which one can ride out the storm best with a combination of toughness, honesty and determined leadership.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 03:30 PM

Steve - might as well just let Guido, America, and Israel choose the next Labour Leader..
Don't make much difference where I vote...

I'm sure Blair was handed victory in such an appointment from 'above'...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 06:49 PM

I was in me classroom one afternoon in May 1994 when a socialist mate of mine came in and whispered in my ear that John Smith had just died suddenly. After a minute or two getting over the shock, I whispered back that Blair was the shoo-in. I felt at that time that it was days of hope after Thatcher trashing the country. The bloody fourth year bottom group occupied me for the next half-hour...

I'm predicting a Starmer-Rayner ticket. It wouldn't be my choice. I think there are two mighty women, they share a flat, and they'll get my vote if I get the chance. All this vacillation about Becky having Corbyn baggage is just bollocks. Every one of those candidates has baggage that the Mail will home in on. We need someone who will fight all that with real teeth. Becky for me every time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 02:35 AM

I remember JC winning two leadership elections by landslides. I remember a lot of people hailing him as The New Messiah. I also remember some people (including me and Mrs Backwoodsperson) saying he would render the LP unelectable to government.

Who, in the end, was proved right?

Being a ‘good Socialist’, as JC undoubtedly is, is simply not enough. The ordinary people of this country desperately need a good Labour government, whether they understand that or not. The Labour Party needs a leader who is an excellent orator, a unifying figure, a supreme strategist, and a bare-knuckle-fighter in the House of Commons.

I don’t see RLB as that leader, despite liking and admiring her as a person and a senior member of the PLP. But do any of the candidates qualify on all counts?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 02:50 AM

"The ordinary people of this country desperately need a good Labour government, whether they understand that or not. The Labour Party needs a leader who is an excellent orator, a unifying figure, a supreme strategist, and a bare-knuckle-fighter in the House of Commons."

and it shall come to pass! Perhaps?
but not a cat in hell's chance before 2050. Rest assured your present bunch of wannabe leaders are as attractive to the electorate as a dose of crabs, despite you "winning the argument"


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 04:39 AM

Jeremy Corbyn did not lose the election because he was a socialist. Where do you want me to start?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 05:20 AM

BORIS JOHNSON’s deal has comprehensively cleared its latest hurdle in the House of Commons, but Brexit Secretary Steven Barclay has warned the House of Lords not to undo all the hard work as the withdrawal agreement reaches its next crucial stage.

Will Boris disband the vermin in ermine first, or the BBC? Good to see the massive Tory majority threatening the foe with fire and brimstone.
No credible response off lippy labour! All mouth and no trousers these days. Can't for the life of me think why that is.

England, bound in with the triumphant sea
Whose rocky shore beats back the envious siege
Of watery Neptune, is now bound in with shame,
With inky blots and rotten parchment bonds:


But only until the end of January!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 05:27 AM

England First, eh? Yep....That figures...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 05:39 AM

I know of a few copies of the party that must not be named membership list that was leaked some time back. I suspect a bit of work could easily show that membership transferred to UKIP and the Brexit party with a good dose of Britain First thrown in. It was, after all, pretty easy to find those on the list who were folkies and ordered by Obergruppenführer Nick to infiltrate folk music forums.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 05:51 AM

Seems a few turkeys here managed to escape Christmas! The rest of the cull was an outstanding success.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 06:02 AM

Makes you wonder, doesn't it, Dave...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 06:19 AM

”Jeremy Corbyn did not lose the election because he was a socialist. Where do you want me to start?”

And I didn’t say he did.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 06:44 AM

Whether or not I am a 'good socialist',
I will make it plain and clear that any prospective Labour candidate
publicly claiming to be a "Socialist" in 2020
instantly renders themselves unelectable in most constituencies..

Like it or not that is the reality of self identifying as a "Socialist"...

The word has now become so demonised by all pervasive mail/sun/guido populist culture,
and become such a trigger for all the now ingrained social prejudice against anyone left of H1tler..

The word "socialist/ism" belongs back in the early 20th Century history,
and is now no longer acceptable to most voters...
Even ordinary working class ex Labour voters who still at heart believe in basic "socialist" values...

The Labour party needs to come to terms with this,
and also reconsider the wisdom of sticking with the word "comrade"
and publicly singing "The Red Flag" in any situations where there are phone cameras...

Adapt and survive...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 06:55 AM

This is speculation so you can dismiss it if you wish but I wonder if Labour actually want a leader as we know the word. We all know that Jeremy Corbyn was, and had been for a long time, anti EU. However the party machine was pro EU and so JC put his own beliefs to one side and led the party along the lines decided at conference.

Any new 'Leader' will be expected to 'lead' the party in the same way. I put it to you that this is not what most of us understand as leadership. It's not the kind of leadership Labour needs in order to win back those seats that went to the Conservative party in the last election.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 07:05 AM

I forgot to include ‘decisive’ and ‘supremely able to think clearly on their feet, whilst being howled at and jeered by the horde of blue baboons on the opposite benches’ in the list of personal attributes required by the new leader, in my post of 10 JAN 20 - 02:35 AM.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 07:23 AM

Being ex military also scores extra brownie points with voters...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 07:45 AM

It also helps if you're a hale-fellow-well-met serial totty-shagging buffoon.

For the umpteenth time, Jeremy Corbyn voted remain.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 08:35 AM

Steve Shaw wrote: For the umpteenth time, Jeremy Corbyn voted remain.
You make my point for me. Before he became leader Jeremy Corbyn was anti EU. When he became leader he voted how Momentum told him to vote. Not what I call leadership.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 09:06 AM

Absolute unsupportable tosh, and you know it. Stop reading the Mail is my advice.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 09:14 AM

Steve Shaw wrote: Absolute unsupportable tosh, and you know it. Stop reading the Mail is my advice.
Your stubborn refusal to see the obvious makes me very happy. It's just the attitude that could keep Labour out of power for another term or two.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 09:21 AM

But will the new leader be a magician. I have a suspicion he/she/it will need to be.

Funny we no longer hear about pesky ruski collusion in our election.
Even the lefties realize that if a horse is dead, there is little point in flogging it.
Rather akin to electing a "new leader", looking at what is on offer.
Now they can no longer frustrate brexit they need another bone to chew!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 09:50 AM

I want the tories out and a Labour government.
I want a real Labour party, not a tory lite version.
I'd like to see this happen before I'm 70...

It's up to the Labour party to reflect on why they lose elections,
and what trappings of the past, and political text books,
they need to discard
in order to win back voters..

A party membership in stubborn denial will continue to lose...

600,000 good 'socialists' will not win a general election
where millions of votes are needed...

Working class ex Labour voters need Labour politicians they can identify with..

Sadly this is something ukip/tommy robinson/far right understand better than the current Labour party do...

It's the Labour party that needs to change how it portrays itself,
in a cruel new world of relentless pernicious media and internet hostility
geared up to permanently keeping Labour out of power...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 10:30 AM

Hey PFR I have some bootleg copies of Bushtucker man. Are you interested?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 10:48 AM

Iains - I think I get the drift what you are trying to say..

I'm actually rather keen on rugged individuals versus a wicked mob,
or harsh environment movies..


Westerns are my favourite genre...

We need a tough new anti-hero gunslinger in town
to protect the good meek town's folks, and farmers,
and motivate them to fight back
against the brutal evil robber baddies from inside and outside the territory...

You know how those movies usually end...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 12:25 PM

The westerns I watched had cowboys and injuns. The ending being good or bad generally depended on whether one favoured the former or the latter.
I agree with you about mobs. Having seen flash mobs come out of nowhere several times in Nigeria and being a paleface, take it from me. It ain't no sensible place to be.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 12:37 PM

Iains - if I am talking to the human aspect of the "Iains" persona..

You obviously must know lefties are a diverse bunch, just like any other group of folks..
Your constant insults reducing us to prejudiced stereotypes,
don't actually work as you might want..
They don't sting, I actually find them funny - but I have a perverse sense of humour..
Mostly your insults backfire and just show you up as a person
not to be taken seriously, and easily mocked...

I'd prefer to talk to the Iains who has lived an interesting life of travel and experiences...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 12:54 PM

"The obvious," Stanron, which you appear to be in some very strange state of denial about, is that Jeremy Corbyn voted remain in 2016. Whatever your claims about his demeanour or sentiment, etc, which you are no more privy to than I am, that's the starting point: if you voted remain, you are a remainer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 12:56 PM

I'd certainly like to know a little bit more about his "interesting life" on the far right...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 01:05 PM

Steve - "Know thy enemy"..

Either to defeat them, or as first steps in healing divisions...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 01:08 PM

I don't have enemies here. I do have a couple of bloody irritants in this thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 03:37 PM

Steve Shaw wrote: "The obvious," Stanron, which you appear to be in some very strange state of denial about, is that Jeremy Corbyn voted remain in 2016. Whatever your claims about his demeanour or sentiment, etc, which you are no more privy to than I am, that's the starting point: if you voted remain, you are a remainer.
You keep repeating that as If I denied it.

From his Wiki page;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Corbyn

"Corbyn has previously been a left-wing Eurosceptic. In the 1975 European Communities referendum, Corbyn opposed Britain's membership of the European Communities, the precursor of the European Union (EU). Corbyn also opposed the ratification of the Maastricht Treaty in 1993, opposed the Lisbon Treaty in 2008, and backed a proposed referendum on British withdrawal from the EU in 2011. He accused the EU of acting "brutally" in the 2015 Greek crisis by allowing financiers to destroy its economy."

Since he became leader the views he had previously held were changed to align with the Party line. He didn't lead. He followed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 04:03 PM

So Corbyn vacillated over supporting or opposing our membership of the EU?

Wuppy-doo! Makes him no worse than Johnson.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 05:18 PM

Stanron, you haven't got the slightest scintilla of evidence that he changed because of some kind of pressure from the party. Please stop making things up. He voted remain. You don't want to respect that for reasons best known to yourself and millions of other brainless Mail-reading leave voters. Good for you. Nice point about Johnson, John. We all remember his stage-managed "can't decide but I'll let you know..." bullshit in early 2016.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 06:45 PM

I'm curious - out of all the Labour MPs who just lost their jobs,
which amongst them might have been a better leadership contender
than the bunch up for selection...???

.. and what, if anything, could be done about it...?????


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 07:54 PM

If there's one thing we should learn is that we never know what kind of a leader someone would make until they're a leader. I give you Atlee, a man with a million defects (including racism and misogyny), of whom Churchill (a man with five million defects, one of which is that he was responsible for the death of my great uncle Jimmy) said that he was a modest man with much to be modest about. Without wishing to diss Churchill's war leadership (that can wait for another time), Atlee did more for this country than a thousand bloody Tories have ever done. Didn't look too good in 1945 to start off with, though, did he?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 02:27 AM

We simply do not know who drives the failed agenda in the Labour party.
Is it Unite? Momentum, the hard left crazies? The present crop on offer in the leadership contest provide little to impress. The fact that Corbyn is allowed to remain as leader clearly demonstrates the fractured state of the party. For as long as he remains without public condemnation or censure, the party is heading for oblivion.
The recent election made it very clear the electorate will not accept any part of what the Corbyn cult offers. Labour has   an upcoming fight between hopelessly failed ideology and pragmatism. The party is in a state of paralysis, surely no other explanation can justify Corbyn continuing to be leader.
Unless the party reinvents itself it will never hold power again. The message of unelectability was enforced by the mass migration of labour seats to the Tories in the Labour heartlands. Betray your electorate-pay the price! Simples!
As for "winning the argument"-words fail.
Such a level of delusion surely demands sectioning, for public protection.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 04:15 AM

Government pledges £71m for Redcar

Let us accept this may never turn up. Let us also suspect a fair degree of cynicism that it is more about keeping them voting Toey than anything else. Even the statement that it was decided before the election more or less fits that, as persuading them to vote Tory.


Despite those reservations, it is good news for Redcar, I think, and should be welcomed as such. Providing it does turn up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 04:18 AM

Sorry, try this link


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 04:51 AM

400


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 06:05 AM

From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 12:54 PM
"The obvious," Stanron, which you appear to be in some very strange state of denial about, is that Jeremy Corbyn voted remain in 2016.


A didactic statement. Jeremy Corbyn claims to have voted remain, but this goes against his previous opposition to the EU. The referendum was a secret ballot, so we only have Jeremy Corbyn's word for how he voted.
Do we suddenly start believing everything that politicians say?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 06:37 AM

That's up to you, but Stanron is predicating his argument on some weird certainty of his that Corbyn is a liar. Jeremy may be many things but I wouldn't call him a liar. If he sez he voted remain, I tend to accept it. If you dig a bit deeper into his quotes before the referendum you'll see that his claim to have voted remain fits what he was saying. I'm not doing it now because I'm off to my mum's care home. By the way, there nothing wrong with being a reluctant remainer. They are the people who probably thought about it the most before voting, aren't they? If only the brain-dead, xenophobe leavers, of whom there were millions, had engaged in the same way we wouldn't be in this horrible mess.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 07:12 AM

Steve Shaw wrote: Stanron is predicating his argument on some weird certainty of his that Corbyn is a liar.
I never said, and I never thought, that Corbyn was or is a liar. I pointed out that before becoming leader he was anti EU. When he became leader he led on the party line, pro EU, and not his own personal preference, anti EU.

I have heard it said that Labour party policy is set at conference. Momentum started by gaining control of local groups. They have expanded their influence and now control the central position of power in the party. They are in a position where they can control what conference debates and possibly what conference decides. Momentum is now leading the party.

They don't want a leader elected, they want a figurehead.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 07:32 AM

People are allowed to change their minds, Stanron. He may well have been anti EU in the past and then saw the light.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 08:28 AM

It's not that difficult to understand Corbyn's dilemma, if that's what it was...

I don't see a too tremendous personal inner conflict in being against a political body in principle,
but reluctantly accepting that alternatives would most likely be even worse...???

That's something like my own fairly informed reason for voting remain..

I accepted that it was more sense,
and a probably more powerful position,
to try to actively change and improve the EU as a member within...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 09:40 AM

"When he became leader he led on the party line, pro EU, and not his own personal preference, anti EU."

You are persisting with the tosh that he was anti-EU even though he voted remain (which I assume you now accept as you insist you're not calling him a liar). Whatever else you think of Corbyn, he does have a mind of his own and, like the rest of us on the left, he is a person of conviction - and also a person perfectly capable of changing his mind as circumstances change (I certainly changed MY mind about the need for revolution decades ago). Generally speaking, I would say that anti-EU people did not vote remain. Duh. As I said, his various statements made not long before the referendum are completely in sync with his stated remain vote. Now instead of sticking to your smears (Jeremy's going now, in case you haven't noticed, so no need to waste any more energy on him) why not do what I did and go and look up what I said?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 11:32 AM

Does anyone really care how compo voted? He is now consigned to the dustbin of history, thrust into the compost bin on his allotment to wither away like the rot he tried to fool the electorate with.
As Pater Johnson said:
"I think that the best possible thing would be for Labour to continue down the suicide route which it embarked upon.”
he added: “And in that context, I long for Bailey, Rebecca Long-Bailey. “I think that she would do the job superbly.“Labour would be unelectable for the foreseeable future!”.
Also
LABOUR leadership frontrunner Sir Keir Starmer launched his leadership campaign in Manchester, urging his party to "build on" Jeremy Corbyn's legacy, hinting at an even more radical future for the Labour Party.
It is clear the denial of reality runs deep in Labour. I had hoped it was only manifested by the extreme left posting here, but in Labour it is both systemic and endemic.
We have nothing to fear from labour for decades! The patient refuses the only cure.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 11:53 AM

WE can always hope the tories get caught out and exposed again
for serious corruption and depravity scandals...
[Despite all their anticipated damage limitation media cover ups]..

Another one's due fairly soon.....

It's not an unrealistic expectation, which Labour would benefit well from...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 08:07 PM

The main difference between Boris and his dad is that one is a bumbling younger idiot and the other is a bumbling older idiot. The star of Any Questions by a long chalk was the lovely Ash Sarkar. I was utterly bloody amazed at the positive reception she got in Lanson town hall. Lanson is not exactly known for its leftie sentiment (it's about 15 miles down the road from me and I'm there most weeks, mainly for Tesco and Specsavers), and it's solid Tory country these days, but she was cheered to the rafters more than once for her clear-sighted, balanced and articulate - and succinct - contributions. Ash is a Marxist-communist, which I am not (never read any Marx in my life), but she was the shining star on that otherwise tawdry panel. And I have a couple of beefs with Chris Morris, who, until now, I'd thought was sort of OK...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 03:42 AM

The main difference between Boris and his dad is that one is a bumbling younger idiot and the other is a bumbling older idiot.
Both are very useful idiots, whereas compo is a useless idiot, and useless by any other metric, other than losing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Workingtonman
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 02:13 PM

come on you leaver types, admit it - you were sold a stupid lie and you bought it. again. you can't remember why it was supposed to be a good idea but you feel you have to carry on the pretence. it's hard to pretend you don't care about your kids (and mine)and their friends and are longing to reconnect. let it go.....you can be a good, positive person again. just buy your nearest remainer in the pub a pint...a wee apology...and we can forget all this nonsense ever happened.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 02:55 PM

`Workingtonman it seems to me that you are the one, among many, who was sold an untruth, or a series of untruths, and are not yet able to admit it. When you are I will be willing to accept a pint from you with no hard feelings at all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 03:09 PM

Whichever side lied the most...

Let's see if me and mine get better or worse off in the coming years...???

As long as Brexiteers are prepared to apologise
and reimburse us for any losses their obsession causes us....


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Workingtonman
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 03:20 PM

something that is never mentioned in this debate is peace. peace between nations and peace and respect between englsh people. the whole thing is crazy - there is no real reason to rip up any reason to co-operate between us. if there was you might have told us by now. just relax, light a spliff and think - what the fuck was i thinking? it's all totally unnecessary, innit? really?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 07:44 PM

From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 03:09 PM
Whichever side lied the most...
Let's see if me and mine get better or worse off in the coming years...???
As long as Brexiteers are prepared to apologise
and reimburse us for any losses their obsession causes us....


As long as you're prepared to pay those who voted to leave for any benefits you receive, and when the apocalypse foretold by the Remain supporters fails to come true.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 02:44 AM

You have some catching up to do alresdy, Nigel

Cost of voting leave


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 03:56 AM

Marr on Sunday has some stunning interviews. It would appear Labour Leader front runners are convinced the electorate were wrong and they are right. Arrogance and abject stupidity guarantee that as a party Labour are finished. Time and numbers are not on thornberry's side to even make it onto the shortlist. Obviously the tories are by no means alone when it comes to detesting her. A Labour split is the only way to salvage a viable opposition.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 05:27 AM

You have some catching up to do alresdy, Nigel
Cost of voting leave
(link to Independent)

That is an opinion of how much we may have lost due to missed sales/growth. It is not really something which has any method of proof. It is also rather old news (April 2019) and talks about the damage being caused by uncertainty over what will happen. We now have a clear leaving date, and a Parliament in which the influence of those trying to prevent us leaving has been virtually removed.
"A week is a long time in politics", nine months even more so.

It appears that remainers rely on the "Jim Bowen school of economics": "Let's see what you could have won".

Where (after the initial referendum) we were able to compare the UK economy with the pre-referendum scare stories of remainers, we could clearly see them for what they were.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 06:49 AM

It appears that remainers rely on the "Jim Bowen school of economics"

The vast majority of economists, industry captains and political pundits agree that leaving the EU will cost us money. Which school of economics do you rely on, Nigel? The Rupert Murdoch institute? The Daily Mail academy? The Hogwarts school of making unicorns appear? We have been asking for three and a half years now for you to give us some details of anyone, who knows what they are talking about, saying that we will benefit. All you offer are tired platitudes about it all turning out ok. Eventualy.

Even other leave posters on here have said that we will suffer financially at first but it should get better. Yet they will not put a time limit on that. How about you doing that? When will we, the ordinary people, start to benefit financially? How long will it take to make up for the initial losses suffered?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 06:51 AM

Sorry for the duff HTML. Only the first line of my last post should be italicised.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 08:08 AM

A gem from Guido
https://order-order.com/2020/01/13/labour-mps-slam-party-hustings-locations/
and another
https://order-order.com/2020/01/13/rayner-compares-northern-accent-black/

Does Labour hate Mondays more than Bob the boomer?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 08:24 AM

”Naturally therefore with their desire to win back former heartlands, Labour’s NEC last night announced their leadership husting locations – namely: not a single one in......the North West

Liverpool, 18th January

Durham, 25th January
Bristol, 1st February
Cardiff, 2nd February
Birmingham, 9th February
Glasgow, 15th February
London, 16th February”


The criminal, drunk-driver, Right-Wing Extremist Staines demonstrating once again what a dense, ill-educated cock he truly is. He should have spent more time paying attention in his school geography classes....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_West_England


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 08:48 AM

Date: 13 Jan 20 - 08:24 AM Hilarious!
as is:

https://order-order.com/2020/01/12/long-bailey-think-labour-lost/

Good old Guido has his finger on the pulse, enumerating labour's continuing insanity.

As Brian Wilson said: "There is a chance for Labour if we listen. Another dud leader and it could be all over"

I recommend they listen to the electorate rather than their deluded selves.
Any more for the oblivion express?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 10:04 AM

"As long as you're prepared to pay those who voted to leave for any benefits you receive, and when the apocalypse foretold by the Remain supporters fails to come true."

errmm... no.. no.. no..

It is the primary default job of all politicians and their advisors to maintain and try to improve
the living conditions of all citizens in our nation..
Not just those who voted for them...!!!

Nigel - I won't expect brexiteer fanatics to ever take any responsibility if their dream turns to long term nightmare
for our economy and ordinary citizens.
Brexiteer zealots will always find ways to shift the blame to anyone but themselves
for a disaster they caused...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 10:08 AM

"As Brian Wilson said: "There is a chance for Labour if we listen. Another dud leader and it could be all over""

Probably not one of The Beach Boys most memorable surfing songs...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 10:13 AM

I don't know why you bother following the links, BWM. You know it's going to be a bag of shite!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 10:31 AM

But the gnome knows in his heart of hearts the links are absolutely correct.
If there is no change, shortly there will be no labour. As sure as night follows day. NO possibility of denial for you I am afraid. The electorate has spoken and as a result Labour is a pale shadow of its former self. Entirely self inflicted as well. Boris is unassailable!
ain't life great?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 10:36 AM

”I don't know why you bother following the links, BWM. You know it's going to be a bag of shite!”

Shitz ‘n’ giggles, Dave! I get some good laughs reading his undisguised, nonsensical Extreme Right Wing propaganda, and considerable amusement seeing who’s soft-enough in the head to set any store by it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 11:05 AM

Rebecca Long-Bailey, Lisa Nandy, Jess Phillips, Keir Starmer and Emily Thornberry all secured enough votes from their Labour colleagues to make the cut.
Not an original thought off any of them. The wilderness beckons!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 11:19 AM

the links are absolutely correct

Absolutely correct facts like Liverpool not being in the North West of England?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 11:20 AM

Iains - regarding original thoughts.. ahem... cough.. guido..

So try not to crib guido for this..

Seeing as you are so interested, which labour politician do you want to be next leader...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 11:24 AM

I like all the original thoughts that BoJo has too, PFR. He couldn't say what the weather was doing unless his pal Dom told him first.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 11:28 AM

Abbreviating his name just gave me another idea. Dom is not short for Dominic at all. More likely Dominator. Boris was a public schoolboy after all :-D


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 11:28 AM

So whe does Dominic Cumbiscuit get his ideas from...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 11:31 AM

Public boarding schools and S&M go together hand in..

errrmm best leave that there, this is a family friendly forum...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 11:31 AM

Cummings and Johnson - Dom & Dumber.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 11:52 AM

Mock to your heart's content. We hold all the cards, the power and the glory, likely for ever and ever, judging by the dismal opposition candidates. Time for you all to study the cuisine of Witchetty grubs and similar delights, at least Churchill had Chartwell during his wilderness years.
You have not one candidate that would make a competent opposition leader
and you know it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 11:59 AM

Iains - Well the choice for tory prime minister is a laughing stock,
and he sacked most of the sensible decent tories..

Just because your lot have all the power at the moment,
don't mean you can ever be trusted with it...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 12:53 PM

Whether Tories can be trusted or not is a moot point.
What is not a moot point is that there is jack shit you can do about it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 01:00 PM

Yet more potential hurdles for Johnson to surmount.

I had already suggested that the Fishing Industry would in all likelihood be sold down the river. This report seems to echo that sentiment.https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/13/city-access-eu-markets-eu-fleets-uk-fishing-rights-brexit

Second the issue with the Irish border is raising it's head again. Officals within Government are suggesting it could take five years to create a viable computerised system for dealing with trade and possibly see the UK Government in court.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/13/brexit-irish-border-uk-northern-ireland

Get Brexit done …….. yeah right!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 01:27 PM

Using the gruniard as a bible and constantly quoting it explains why labour is now a spent force.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 01:37 PM

"Whether Tories can be trusted or not is a moot point.
What is not a moot point is that there is jack shit you can do about it.
"

There is at least bare naked honesty in admitting
your side ruthlessly seized all the power and will do whatever they like with it,
no matter how reckless or corrupt - so f@ck any reasonable objection and opposition...

well done, right wing junta...


[no... "junta" is not a misspelling....]


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 01:39 PM

Good to see we are getting a nice easy deal from Australia as well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 04:07 PM

As expected absolutely NO response to the actual content of the reports.

As per usual no concept of the issues at play.

It's a bit like having an unintelligent puppy, fun at times but ultimately very boring.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 14 Jan 20 - 03:16 AM

It's a bit like having an unintelligent puppy, fun at times but ultimately very boring.
Just like taking the piss out of you opinionated leftie losers! All mouth and no trousers springs to mind.
Rather like those winning labour policies that were so stunningly popular with the electorate,
How many seats did you lose? and how many allegiance switching traitors lost their seats?

Your faux outrage is a source of constant hilarity.
You backed a pathetic leader of a pathetic party with even more pathetic policies.
It really is time you accepted the truth and paid homage to the unassailable might of Bojo.
A toon for us

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jmd4OLzhQw0


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Jan 20 - 10:13 AM

IGNORE. THE. TROLL. (And yes, I’m shouting!).


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 16 Jan 20 - 03:51 AM

A Corbyn clone is heading the race for the Labour party leadership election! This choice clearly demonstrates that Labour has learnt nothing from its recent historic defeat. This prospective leader will totally alienate the electorate (Presumably this is why one newspaper described her as an alien)
Brought to you by Guido:

https://order-order.com/2020/01/16/long-bailey-slips-ahead-latest-labour-leader-poll/
The comments are quite telling.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Jan 20 - 03:14 AM

Every human comes with baggage, naturally. One of the things the candidate has to be prepared for is the extent and the viscous was of the attacks. I read last night that Rebecca is a practicing Catholic. Nothing wrong in that, so am I. But there is no doubt whatsoever that some branches of the media will see a "Tim Fallon" style attack as a new weapon in their arsenal.

As we see here, attacks are never limited to the policies: anything all all is used, such a references to Diane Abbott's weight. Similarly, Rory Stewart, for example, was attacked as much for his appearance as his policies, it was a talking point for days that he took his tie off.

One of Corbyn's great strengths was his ability to disregard most of these attacks, but it did him no good in the end because the voters didn't. Whoever comes next will need to find a different strategy to overcome them. Blair did so essentially by being so close to the media that they didn't really attack him, and in the early days he did not downplay too much policy, though even then he made some very unwise compromises.

The new leader, whoever they are, will have this as their main battle, I suspect. Even more than policy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jan 20 - 06:09 AM

That such attacks have leached even to as innocuous area as folk music is a sad sign of the times DMcG. Luckily most people rise above the inane posts of the right wing agitators. I can only urge others to do the same and leave it to the moderation team to remove some of the more personal and pointless attacks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jan 20 - 07:05 AM

The antisemitism card has to be speedily nullified by whoever gets the job. The way things are going you'd think that the Board Of Deputies were running the party. Well nobody elected the Board Of Deputies at the ballot box and the party seriously has to get them off its back and quickly. There are antisemites in the party but their numbers are minuscule. Whataboutery apropos of Tory Islamophobia, a far worse problem, may be justified but it doesn't play well, and the right-wing media won't touch it. So quick, decisive action needs to be seen to be done. And just because you're not a Corbynite doesn't mean they won't come to get you if it doesn't happen.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 18 Jan 20 - 08:45 AM

https://news.sky.com/story/labour-leadership-candidates-clash-over-handling-of-antisemitism-11911426


The antisemitism card has to be speedily nullified by whoever gets the job
It will not be nullified until the officiai government body, The Equality and Human Rights Commission, has not only reported but its recommendations acted on.
Labour has denied the charges for years and if chuckleberry's report had been anything other than a disgraceful whitewash the party would not be undergoing the present investigation. Labour is proven to be incapable of policing itself and simply continues to deny the allegations.
This is not good enough. It is shameful behaviour and trying to distract by whataboutism merely demonstrates the inability of the left posting here to accept the validity of the charges.
The only other political party thus investigated is the British National Party
To me it seems labour is in a headlong rush to the bottom of the swamp. Denial of reality will keep them safely away from power for decades. They cannot even create a meaningful opposition party.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Jan 20 - 08:48 AM

Here we go! WTF happened to ‘sunlit uplands’,’the easiest deal ever’ and the rest of the bullshit the leave-voters fell for?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jan 20 - 09:16 AM

"The only other political party thus investigated is the British National Party"

Do tell us more. You should know, after all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Jan 20 - 09:18 AM

I know, BWM. The EU requires a left handrd widget and the US wants a right handed one? Just 'adjust' business. Now we've done our bit it is over to you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Jan 20 - 09:21 AM

Corbyn versus the right wing media and bloggers just proves that fighting clean and meekly turning the other cheek
is no longer an option for decent people...

Labour needs to fight fire with fire...
Find dirt on enemies and be seen to confidently use it back at them...

In 2020 a Labour leader standing up and assertively shouting "F@ck off !!!" to false accusers and liars
might now be a vote winner with working class ex labour supporters...???

Just about everybody respected Prescott for punching back...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 18 Jan 20 - 09:22 AM

Brexit: 'No alignment' with EU on regulation, Javid tells business.

If true this means no BRINO and we regain full sovereignty.
We shall see! Hopefully the sunny uplands beckon.
This has been a long road since June 2016 voted overwhmlmingly for brexit in a referendum, and subsequently for article 50 and two General Election.

I wonder when the lefties will finally cease their irritating squawking, and accept they lost.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Jan 20 - 09:55 AM

"overwhmlmingly"...!!!???

"overwhelmingly
adverb
to a very great degree or with a great majority.
"

I'm not a spellcheck nitpicker...

I'll just say there is a certain kind of insecurity and sense of inadequacy
that motivates a bloke to over exaggerate the size of his "whelm"...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 18 Jan 20 - 10:36 AM

One more than the other side is sufficient to win. In the case of the referendum the majority was 1,269,501. That majority was overwhelmingly more than one.
No insecurity or inadequacy, simply irrefutable fact. You lost. Another fact. Live with it.
Your arguments, like your brexit vote and labour party, are simply inadequate. Fact!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jan 20 - 11:21 AM

I agree about fighting fire with fire. Not so much about digging dirt, simply because the dirt is already out in the open. Labour should have been screaming loud about the fact that the NHS was in relatively brilliant nick ten years ago. Look at it now (just make sure you never need A&E, and as for that op, well some time in mid-2021 if you're lucky... Ten years ago the medics pooped their pantalons if there was even a threat of missing that 18-week target - remember that?) All those promises about fixing social care and care for the elderly - all quietly down the pan. Same with the police service. School buildings in dangerous crumbling condition, nothing done. A decade in which public sector pay was virtually frozen for no good reason whatsoever. The exploitation culture of millions on zero-hours or in the gig economy. Bejaysus, we even let the Tories get away with crowing about it, telling us that "there are more people in work than ever before..." Pensions totally screwed. Bloody food banks and people living in cardboard boxes ballooning out of control. Schools being put in the hands of spivs who know bugger all about education. The bonuses carrying on as the rich get ever richer. All in the last ten years. I mean, where was the outrage?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jan 20 - 11:24 AM

I forgot to mention the evil murderous Duncan-Smith mercilessly wrecking the lives of the sick, the disabled and the unemployed...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jan 20 - 12:22 PM

Price rise and job warning I

The first of many I should think :-(


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Jan 20 - 01:24 PM

Going back to fundamentals, whether you voted Leave or Remain was always about what was best for the country: the vote itself was not important, the consequences were.

So now it is up to leavers - and others who wish - to be highlighting all the ways we get better as a country and individuals. Actual things, not abstractions. What the results were in the referendum no longer matters: we need to be looking at the consequences.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 19 Jan 20 - 04:30 AM

Why Labour is totally unelectable
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1230089/Brexit-News-update-latest-Labour-Party-leadership-EU

There are rumours compo wishes to award the treacherous dwarf a peerage. That will cost labour yet another 5 years in the wilderness.
Well done Jeremy! Your toxic touch will be remembered as the Labour paryt's kiss of death.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jan 20 - 05:16 AM

In the meanwhile it is good to see the country not being run by unelected bureaucrats

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/18/boris-johnson-warns-cabinet-shape-up-or-be-sacked

The article states that the GAP is threatening ministers with the sack with the agreement of Dominic Cummings. (my bold) It goes on to say -

Cummings has signalled his intention to revolutionise the workings of Whitehall by bringing more independent advisers into the heart of government. The latest cracking of the whip in the direction of the cabinet suggests his ambitions extend far further.

I do hope that everyone that voted for Dom is happy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 20 - 06:06 AM

The government is scrapping a scheme in which child refugees can be safely reunited with their families in the UK. This will put vulnerable children in harm's way. It's heartless and totally unnecessary. There's a petition at Change.org. Hopefully the Lords will reject this change.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jan 20 - 01:46 PM

PFR, the mods are very good at deleting the, what shall we call them? Yes, excesses of the resident BNP thugs. Unfortunately, while they are shovelling shit, some other posts, related to said shit, get removed at the same time. Nowt to do with humour or US/UK differences. Everything to do with making life easier. There is a dead simple way to stop your posts being removed. Don't respond to the flame bait.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jan 20 - 01:53 PM

DtG - taking the piss out of our last remaining unbanned right wingers
is good therapy for the mind and soul...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jan 20 - 01:57 PM

Besides which, puritanical censorship these days is an ongoing high profile issue
that elements of both the right and left can actually agree upon,
and work together opposing...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jan 20 - 01:58 PM

Agreed, PFR, but don't whinge if the piss takes get mopped up with the shit!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jan 20 - 02:05 PM

My previous reply was to the previous post. There is nothing puritanical in the deletions. Blocks of related posts are removed. That's all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jan 20 - 02:23 PM

My imagination is now conjuring up a comedy sketch
where pubs employ moderators to control all debates
between drinkers with opposing views...

It's funnier than much of what's on the telly...
But as usual I'll have forgotten it before bothering to write it down...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 20 - 02:46 PM

You're both wrong. The moderators are simply having a laugh. I appear to have become a bit of a target for deletions. I have had a pretty serious post deleted from this thread that perfectly justifiably questioned Iains' mental health on the grounds of his severe obsession with Labour's defeat (which we all accept, of course, along with the fact that we're leaving the EU). In addition, I've had some very anodyne, admittedly slightly flippant posts deleted, posts made in gentle and inoffensive fashion, in a music thread which in itself is highly whimsical (that one about songs depicting the months of the year). I'm not that bothered, as I've always said. But they leave this horrid man's poison to fester here to bring the forum into disrepute. There's a motive for this mod behaviour, obviously. The three of them appear to want all us Brits to wallow unhappily and eventually disappear up our own backsides. As we know that the mods are perfectly capable of acting unilaterally, yet still they leave him here, they're obviously all in it together. It's a very strange game if you ask me. Cue at least one mod telling us that the victims of Iains' incessant insulting behaviour are entirely to blame...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jan 20 - 03:02 PM

steve - "constructive discharge or constructive termination,
occurs when an employee resigns as a result of the employer creating a hostile work environment.
"

For anyone raised in a trades union family background,
anything that smells like that raises hackles...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jan 20 - 03:20 PM

For the love of God!

If EVERYBODY would FFS ignore the bugger, there wouldn’t beany deletions of posts, and the Mods would have no conceivable justification for taking sides (assuming they are doing - and I’m not convinced that they are).

For supposedly-intelligent people, you can be bloody stupid.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jan 20 - 03:24 PM

.. but how booooooring and unstimulating this place would be
if we were only allowed to talk to folks we agreed" with...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 19 Jan 20 - 03:25 PM

Reflecting on Corbyn’s response to the Skripal poisoning, leadership candidate Lisa Nandy went in all guns blazing after Corbyn, saying:

“At a crucial moment, we hesitated in condemning an authoritarian regime…We stood with the Russian government, and not with the people it oppresses, who suffer poverty and discrimination.”

That's magic grandad for you, and they are priming the alien as a shoe in in a skirt as his replacement.
Perhaps Labour should announce the winning candidates on april 1st instead of the 4th.

Even Brian Rix could not create a farce the equal of this!

My popcorn cup overfloweth!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 20 - 04:56 PM

Yeah PFR just like FOX news.

Respect the avatar, More and more of you are using first names as if you have a 'special' relationship with that person. If you can not use the designated avatar use your own credit card or phone number


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jan 20 - 06:51 PM

.. so an amended recap from a couple of weeks ago..

We are allowed one UK politics thread - providing we don't discuss UK politics in it,
or talk to opponents,
or express ourselves with robust near the knuckle British banter humour...?????


Just so we know the rules...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Jan 20 - 09:57 PM

This is no longer it.

I just removed yards and yards of name calling and personal squabbling that has nothing to do with politics or pledges at this point.

Just because someone disagrees with your politics is not a reason to ban them from Mudcat, and it's pointless to moan about it here. Just because someone is a royal flaming asshole and does it to yank your chain is not a reason to kick them out, though it does get posts deleted and threads closed when you take the bait and answer. The personal insults are uncalled for, whatever your political leanings. I have had PMs asking to remove insults, then the same individuals will turn around later and sling their own. You can't have it both ways.

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS. THIS THREAD IS CLOSED.


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This Thread Is Closed.


Mudcat time: 29 January 5:57 AM EST

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