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BS: Is this Brexit 4?

Stanron 08 Aug 19 - 12:49 AM
DMcG 08 Aug 19 - 01:46 AM
punkfolkrocker 08 Aug 19 - 02:03 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Aug 19 - 02:53 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Aug 19 - 02:55 AM
Backwoodsman 08 Aug 19 - 03:32 AM
Iains 08 Aug 19 - 04:08 AM
David Carter (UK) 08 Aug 19 - 04:58 AM
DMcG 08 Aug 19 - 05:13 AM
David Carter (UK) 08 Aug 19 - 05:21 AM
Iains 08 Aug 19 - 05:22 AM
David Carter (UK) 08 Aug 19 - 05:34 AM
Iains 08 Aug 19 - 05:57 AM
Rain Dog 08 Aug 19 - 06:17 AM
DMcG 08 Aug 19 - 06:26 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Aug 19 - 06:27 AM
DMcG 08 Aug 19 - 06:39 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Aug 19 - 06:59 AM
Iains 08 Aug 19 - 07:41 AM
DMcG 08 Aug 19 - 08:02 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Aug 19 - 08:17 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Aug 19 - 08:25 AM
David Carter (UK) 08 Aug 19 - 08:45 AM
Iains 08 Aug 19 - 09:33 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Aug 19 - 09:34 AM
punkfolkrocker 08 Aug 19 - 09:37 AM
punkfolkrocker 08 Aug 19 - 09:44 AM
Iains 08 Aug 19 - 10:00 AM
punkfolkrocker 08 Aug 19 - 10:13 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Aug 19 - 10:25 AM
Nigel Parsons 08 Aug 19 - 10:28 AM
Backwoodsman 08 Aug 19 - 10:45 AM
Iains 08 Aug 19 - 10:48 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Aug 19 - 10:54 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Aug 19 - 11:03 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Aug 19 - 11:18 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Aug 19 - 11:34 AM
David Carter (UK) 08 Aug 19 - 11:51 AM
Mrrzy 08 Aug 19 - 11:55 AM
Raggytash 08 Aug 19 - 11:59 AM
Rain Dog 08 Aug 19 - 12:02 PM
David Carter (UK) 08 Aug 19 - 12:05 PM
Raggytash 08 Aug 19 - 12:08 PM
Iains 08 Aug 19 - 12:18 PM
Rain Dog 08 Aug 19 - 12:23 PM
Raggytash 08 Aug 19 - 12:35 PM
punkfolkrocker 08 Aug 19 - 12:49 PM
DMcG 08 Aug 19 - 12:50 PM
Mossback 08 Aug 19 - 12:51 PM
Dave the Gnome 09 Aug 19 - 03:16 PM
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Subject: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Stanron
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 12:49 AM

Less than 90 days. Can we keep this civil? I want out. Lots of you want remain. Let's discuss.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 01:46 AM

One of the things being claimed is that it would be a travesty of democracy if Parliament was shut down and unable to debate Brexit as we approached the October deadline. It would be disappointing if that was mirrored on Mudcat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 02:03 AM

Extreme Brexit fanatics in Govt and Media have made it impossible
for ordinary folks to have civil rational debate on leaving or not.
The ticking count down to deadline will only exacerbate and intensify the rancour...


We can try our best though...


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 02:53 AM

!I want out. Lots of you want remain."
People who want out have laid out their reasons pretty clearly
Perhaps those who want out may do the same, so far there has been little attempt to do so
When this began nobody was aware of the consequences of leaving the E.U., now we have lots to discuss
I thin the ball is in your court Stanron
Perhaps avoiding terms like "fanatics" might e a good start
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 02:55 AM

It is fanaticism of all kinds that causes problems, PFR. Although, to date, there have not been any deaths caused by remain supporters. We can discuss this in a civil manner but only if we ignore the extreme language used by some. Would someone from the moderation team please remind all participants that the best guideline is to be civil to each other and the best way to deal with trolls or flamers is to ignore them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 03:32 AM

Amen, Dave. Fingers crossed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Iains
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 04:08 AM

I support Brexit, as does the majority. The only reason we have reached this impasse is because of the blatant dishonesty of our MPs.
The leaders of both Tory and Labour clearly stated they would give the mandate to the people.
This mandate was clearly supported by a huge majority in Parliament when article 50 was voted for. Furthermore the mandate of the people was further reinforced by an election where both parties stood on a leave the EU ticket. That last election was the time for MPs to state their position if they disagreed. They did not. Furthermore they cannot claim a Damascene conversion conversion since the election, because all the issues had been thoroughly thrashed about since June 2016. The mildest description for these MPs is that they are venal, dishonest and treacherous. They put the 30 pieces of silver above integrity.
To expect me to accept allthe machinations of the remainer MPs as being lawful and legitimate is a wish too far. As far as I am concerned their chance to stand up and be counted was at the last General Election. The fact that they did not clearly demonstrates they are totally unfit to be MPs. and no matter what gyrations they go through to frustrate brexit the majority will refuse to accept it's legitimacy. Their credibility was blown at the last election. Who is going to take any notice of thieves and shysters. Their own actions highlight the illegitimacy of their aims It is a deliberate attempt to negate the majority vote that was to leave the EU. The worst thing about it is that these same MPs betrayed their electorate by standing on a leave ticket. Why would anyone take any notice of them now?
They were outvoted in the referendum
They were outvoted for article50
They were outvotedin the 201 General Election
There ain't nothing changed since.
Remainers were defeated resoundingly three times.

We are going to reclaim our sovereignty and leave the EU.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 04:58 AM

Well if you want rational reasons for wanting to remain in the EU:

Euratom

Horizon2020

Erasmus

Our right of freedom of movement, resulting in fabulous opportunities for our young, or less young, people to work in Europe

Free movement of goods which results in the fabulous choice of quality continental products available in our shops.

Enhanced confidence in our country, in particular our currency.

EHIC

Hassle free travel

Rights to buy property in Europe

All positives, there are no negatives.

We are going to reclaim our sovereignty and remain in the EU.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 05:13 AM

I think we all know each others positions. Rather than reiterating them, I suggest we should stick to commenting on current and future events.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 05:21 AM

Parliament is sovereign and is the basis of our democracy. It is wrong for an unelected leader, or indeed anyone, to seek to subvert parliament in order to achieve their favoured outcome. Charles I found that out the hard way. Boris should take note.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Iains
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 05:22 AM

DMcG a good idea.
What do you think of this proposed future event?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/07/john-mcdonnell-threatens-march-palace-tell-queen-taking-boris1/


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 05:34 AM

John McDonnell would be right to do that, if Johnson tried to cling on to power despite losing a no confidence vote. Its either that or the army taking over, and we don't want that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Iains
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 05:57 AM

I think I would prefer the army to a committed marxist. But many a slip
'twixt the cup and lip. There are many permutations on how it could all pan out, The real question to be answered, in terms of the referendum result, what is a legitimate course of action? Primacy of parliament was clearly devolved to the people for the referendum to occur.
You and I both know that to disregard it by terming it "advisory" will simply not wash, primarily for the reasons I outlined above. In my view and in the view of the majority all your arguments disputing brexit lack validity for the simple reason we operate on majority rule.
The fact that apparently many MPs stood for leave when were clearly closet remainers merely outlines major flaws in the power of the electorate to dismiss cheats and liars. You can argue your position until the cows come home but your stance is to usurp democracy by relying on dishonest MPs that stood for re election under false pretenses. That is a fact!
If I had my way I would bang them all up for malfeasance


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Rain Dog
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 06:17 AM

Iains wrote "The fact that apparently many MPs stood for leave when were clearly closet remainers merely outlines major flaws in the power of the electorate to dismiss cheats and liars."

Of course the electorate has the opportunity to dismiss the so called 'cheats and liars' every 5 years or even less than that.

Now, how often should there be a referendum?


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 06:26 AM

I would certainly not prefer the army to an elected body, chosen by the respective constituencies. It seems likely that there will be a general election, and people will stand on whatever their manifesto is at the time. I think that the fact the members of parliament voted on support of article 50 meant they voted to leave, but I don't think it means they voted "leave at any price." If the price is, in their judgement, too high, they have not only the right but the duty to say so, and if need be pay the price at the next election.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 06:27 AM

As I said on the other thread. The job of the government is to do what is best for the nation. Not to pander to approximately 1/3 of the electorate while completely ignoring the views of the rest. If the MPs make themselves unpopular with hard line leavers that is their own choice. That would be fine by me but I fully understand it would upset many.

As DMcG said, we all know the pros and cons of being in the EU and have voted according to whether we believe being in or out is best for everyone and generations to come. What is important now is how our elected representatives handle it. If they crash out of the EU they lose the confidence of the 1/3 that wanted to remain. If they do not leave at all they upset the 1/3 that voted leave. In addition, they have no idea how the 1/3 that did not vote will react and how much people's minds have changed in light of better information.

I would love them to simply say they were wrong and we should remain but I know that will not happen. The best we can hope for is a compromise that partially satisfies most of the population and does what is right for the nation. I have given my view, that the agreement should be to remain in the customs union, apply no tariffs to EU produce and allow free movement of people, subject to more tests than previously applied.

Whether that can happen or not remains to be seen but it has to be better than alienating the millions who wish to remain and facing the potential economic disaster that is predicted.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 06:39 AM

To that we need to add the "Project Fear" factor. We can be fairly sure a lot of people who voted leave thought much, or even all, of the warnings were "fake news." I believe a lot was wildly exaggerated. But if ANY of it turns out to be right in a way that directly impacts peoples lives, some proportion of leavers will also feel cheated. What happens then is very hard to predict.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 06:59 AM

"Of course the electorate has the opportunity to dismiss the so called 'cheats and liars' every 5 years or even less than that. "
Has it ?
Elections are won on promises that are never kept - ever
If you base your system on that fact nothing changes whoever wins
THat system now stands to be replaced by a Prime minister who considers it to be his right to veride that flawed system and has declared he intends to over-ride a vote he disagrees with - a step away from democracy
The argue that "that's what the people voted for" is a totally fallacious on coming fom people who have a track record of holding the peoples' opinions and rights in contempt
I would love Nigel and Stanton to lay out exactly why they wish to leave - where do they want Britain (if there is to remain such an entity) to go and how it is going to get there - at lease both of them have confined their postings to to the question in hand
Personally, I don't believe Britain to be ready for Independence yet (to borrow a phrase from the days of a dying Empire)
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Iains
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 07:41 AM

The dominant theme of the last election was Brexit, as has been pointed out many times. The brexit vote was won by a majority of those enfranchised. That is a fact!
Leave         17,410,742         51.89%
Remain         16,141,241         48.11%
Valid votes         33,551,983         99.92%
Invalid or blank votes         25,359         0.08%
Total votes         33,577,342         100.00%
Registered voters/turnout         46,500,001         72.21% Facts

Trying to justify your arguments by talking about a mythical 33.3% is pure delusion. Babes in arms have no vote, neither do ghosts, neither do those that did not make it to a ballot box. Time to get real!
Leave won. A simple vote in or out. No need for explanation from me, just consult the results!

The explanation required is why democracy should be overturned because you cannot accept the outcome of a vote by the people. An explanation is required why many MPs stood dishonestly on a leave ticket in the last election when their sole objective was to defy the people and overturn the referendum result.
Brexiteers can hold their heads up high, it is remainers trying to subvert democracy. Why are they doing this, and what gives them the right?
The argument that MPs have changed their minds may have had a degree of merit until the 2017 election. I cannot accept they have changed their minds since as project fear started on the 27th June 2016. Almost a year for all the "issues" to be thoroughly discussed.
Those treacherous MPs who stood on a leave ticket and have since been trojan horses should be consigned to the augean stables where they belong. Their careers are likely terminated come the next election, the only problem is how much damage will they do in the meantime.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 08:02 AM

Sorry, but I had to laugh at the idea Trojan horses belong in Augean stables. As mixed metaphors go, that's a good one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 08:17 AM

Didn't finish my reply
"Now, how often should there be a referendum?"
As often as necessary
It's cleaned out Ireland's Augean Stables `spectacularly over the last few years and neutralised some of the worst elements of Irish society
Would that the UK treated serious subjects so responsibly
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 08:25 AM

My point still stands. In 2016 the electorate was approximately 46 million. Of those 17.5 million voted to leave. 16 million voted to remain and for one reason or another 12.5 million did not vote. I agree absolutely that by a simple majority the decision was leave but the fact remains that whatever happens, a huge number of the electorate will be greatly dissatisfied. The 1/3 is not mythical at all. 38% of the electorate voted to leave. 35% voted to remain. The remaining 27% is an unknown factor. Whatever happens, the government is going to alienate just over 1/3 of its voter base and do not know how the non voters and new voters will react. It is not as easy as following 'the will of the people'. It is all about how to satisy the needs of the whole population. I doubt very much that the current admninistration can do this.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 08:45 AM

The point about the will of the people in a referendum is in my view irrelevant. We live in a parliamentary democracy, we elect representatives to represent our interests, and thus parliament determines the will of the people. Or have you all forgotten Burke again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Iains
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 09:33 AM

The point about the will of the people in a referendum is in my view irrelevant.

In your view perhaps.
However 46,500,001 people voted in the referendum. To tell them after the event they were simply pissing in the wind and are irrelevant is liable to hack them off a teensy weensy bit. Especially the majority that voted leave


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 09:34 AM

Populism worksd on the basis of using people's dissatisfaction
THIS MAN PUT IT IN A NUTSHEL OVER HALF A CENTURY AGO when he wrote, "we have to change things if we want things to remain the same" - a different tactic to maintain the status quo.

In Ireland we have referenda to change major issues - and they have
We also have a PR system that to a large degree prevents the excesses of the 'first past the post' system - and it does

Continuing to rely on a Parliamentary system that has developed a deep mistrust, even a contempt in politics and politicians is playing into theuir hands and keeping them were they are - it's as simple as that
Jim carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 09:37 AM

As mixed metaphors go, that's a good one.

"Date: 23 Jul 19 - 10:36 AM
..I see an abject failure to deliver brexit and a general election sooner rather than later.
Not that Labour would welcome such a gift, it would be more a Trojan horse for them.
This is a shame because they have an Augean stable already prepared.
"

So good it's become a classic hit on cliché playlist rotation...

AS well as asking we be civil, Stanron could also have requested
posters in this thread refrain from lazily regurgitating material
from previous dead end threads...

Surely we can all make the effort to write fresher ideas in this 'new start' discussion concerning the future...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 09:44 AM

The bitter bile in the press will get much worse in the coming weeks...
This will filter down into even nastier social media interactions between us ordinary folk...

Maybe we mudcattes are mature and reasonable enough to resist
basing our posts on thinly disguised copy n pastes from the most mean spirited newspapers...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Iains
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 10:00 AM

When 72.21% of the electorate turn out to vote when clearly given a mandate by Blair, Cameron and May you cannot really expect the majority to take it lying down when certain MPs promptly try to renege on the deal. That in a nutshell is where we are. Remainers are squirreling around all over the place trying to justify this betrayal. As yet their arguments are on foundations of sand and have no merit. Democracy demands the vote is upheld.
Betray the vote and you betray democracy. It really is as simple as that! Is that what you really want? The papers are full of what McDonnel would like to do- are you really trying to give power to a self proclaimed marxist that when asked what law Tories would be tried under, McDonnell replied “I might want to invent it”.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 10:13 AM

Yes, I saw that absurd hysterical tripe in the 2 papers most beloved by a certain type of folks...

It's as if it's the 1950s and reds under the beds paranoia all over again...

"McCarthyism is the practice of making accusations of subversion or treason without proper regard for evidence....

But they didn't have the advantages of the internet to spread the panic and lies
as immediately and effectively folks can now..


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 10:25 AM

"The bitter bile in the press"
The Times is quite interesting - while it is a vituperative right-wing rag its articles are pretty overwhelmingly anti-Brexit
Its sputtering hatred of Corbyn is obviously based on the fear of what damage his ideas would to to an imbalanced society based on the privilege Murdoch and his kind represents   
As much as people like these would like to make those ideas illegal (as shown admirably here) they resort to smear and undermining and would sooner see the British constitution junked rather than relinquish their power and privilege   
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 10:28 AM

David Carter: and thus parliament determines the will of the people.
No, parliament can only determine the will of parliament. It could be expected to represent the will of the people, but that is not always the case.
In this particular case parliament decided to find out what the will of the people actually was, in order to be guided in what to do.
Having found what the will of the people (or at least the majority view of those both able and willing to vote) they should have taken their guidance from that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 10:45 AM

”In this particular case parliament decided to find out what the will of the people actually was, in order to be guided in what to do.
Having found what the will of the people (or at least the majority view of those both able and willing to vote) they should have taken their guidance from that.”


Unfortunately for you and your fellow Brexiteers, Nigel, that’s nonsense - just wishful thinking.

The EU Referendum Act 2015 makes it crystal clear that it is advisory only, and that the government is not required to act in accordance with the result. The Act was passed by Parliament, and it is not within the power of a PM to amend it - only Parliament can amend an Act passed by Parliament.

Our system of Parliamentary Democracy does not put any responsibility on MPs to do the bidding of their constituents - but it does require them to act in the best interests of their constituents, and the country as a whole.

I find it astonishing that those who are the keenest to rant on about ‘democracy’ are those who appear to know the least about what democracy actually means within the context of our Parliamentary system.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Iains
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 10:48 AM

Yes, I saw that absurd hysterical tripe in the 2 papers most beloved by a certain type of folks...

So you deny what he said when it is reliably reported by numerous sources. Here is a smattering of them:
John McDonnell has threatened to drag the Queen into a constitutional crisis by claiming Labour would “take over” if Boris Johnson refused to quit were he to lose a confidence vote.
"I want to be in a situation where no Tory MP can show their face in public without being challenged by Direct action (Insurrection) - They are social criminals & eventually, i warn you, WE WILL TRY THEM!"
with the link below you can watch and listen to the lunatic.
It seems you support labour therefiore you must support the tripe in the video in the link below


https://twitter.com/_BrexitTory/status/1157326624746102784


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 10:54 AM

A quick response to an old boogieman
"Marxism" is a philosophy based on the dream of a society run for the benefit of all its members rather than the privileged few
Whatever the personal, long term views of Corbyn and McDonald are, their stated objectives are to make slightly fairer the present society by removing some of its greater anomalies - most Marxists I know would regard this as 'reformism'
If Corbyn's reforms took root, the gap between rich and poor would be narrowed slightly, workers would be able to afford to live in areas where there is work for them (unlike now) and maybe even the victims of the Grenfell Tower disaster would now have permanent homes instead of remaining in temporary accommodation.
This sort of humanity is an anathema to those who shriek "Marxism" whenever such objectives are suggested
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 11:03 AM

MARCH 2019
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 11:18 AM

It is not 'the will of the people's as we keep pointing out. It is the will of 17.4 million out of an electorate of 46 million. You cannot totally disregard the will of the rest and expect to get away with it. But all this is beside the point and has been discussed ad nauseam. The only way forward with this discussion is to focus on how to get the best deal for the entire nation. Surely that is what everyone, leave or remain, wants. To achieve that is a juggling act and, in my opinion, beyond the skill of the current administration.

Does anyone have any real and positive ideas of how this can be achieved? I have given my preference. Leave the EU; apply no tariffs to EU produce; remain in the customs union; allow movement of EU citizens but apply more stringent controls. I think that satisfies most requirements but realise it is over simplified. How about someone else coming up with a better compromise?


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 11:34 AM

"How about someone else coming up with a better compromise?"
Common sense and Democracy would be to ask the people to reconfirm their decision now they are aware of the consequences
It is the decision only of those that wish to leave they it takes place in October - I have little doubt that the E.U. would be prepared to grant Britsin more time
So far, Europe is is only the EU who have been prepared to compromise - Britain has only stamped its foot and demanded more
The EU is not a single entity, it represents 23 States; Brexit, it appears does not even represent Britain's interests - the Northern States don't want it, Scotland is threatening to leave The Union and even Wales is talking about civil unrest
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 11:51 AM

BWM says:

"Our system of Parliamentary Democracy does not put any responsibility on MPs to do the bidding of their constituents - but it does require them to act in the best interests of their constituents, and the country as a whole."

And that is the point, and the whole of the point. It is the absolute foundation of our system of democracy, stated most famously by Burke in his Bristol speech in 1774. 1774 that is, and people still havn't grasped it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 11:55 AM

Is Reclaim our sovereignty the same as Let's go back to when Britain ruled the waves? It seems so to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 11:59 AM

A very simple way to verify what the "peoples voice" is NOW would be to hold another referendum.

If the "peoples voice" remains as it was in 2016 then we leave the EU.

However I don't think this solution would appeal to those ardent Brexiteers on here and elsewhere.

As an aside, albeit an important one, the pound is trading at approximately 80% of it's value pre-referendum. Thus everything we import is costing far more than it was then.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Rain Dog
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 12:02 PM

Watched the first episode of this last week

Portillo;the trouble with the tories

the second is on tonight.

What was striking in the various clips that they showed, was the lack of the word advisory during the campaign.

What was also striking was that Cameron seemed so certain that people would vote remain. How wrong can he have been? At the time I thought the result was going to be tight and that it could go either way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 12:05 PM

Raggy, that is a hugely important point which the sewer press see fit to ignore, and it will be worse if we are hit by tariffs on all imported foodstuffs. Just wander round the shelves of your supermarket and see how much of the stuff we buy comes from the EU, OR IS COVERED BY EU TRADE AGREEMENTS. A no deal brexit is about a 40% hike in the cost of our food.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 12:08 PM

Agreed David. I see that every week when I do our weekly food shop.


** When I am in the UK that is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Iains
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 12:18 PM

Why would we impose tariffs on imported food? That would be totally irrational


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Rain Dog
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 12:23 PM

A lot of nonsense is spoken about what will and will not happen after Brexit. Until an agreement is reached we cannot be sure what will happen BUT the government is working on most imports being duty free in the event of a no deal Brexit. That will then be reviewed after a period of time


Most imports tariff-free under no-deal plan


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 12:35 PM

The price hikes we have experienced and will continue to experience are caused, in the main, by the fall in the value of the pound since the referendum.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 12:49 PM

Did the £ recently dip below the $ in some currency exchanges..

I switched on the news near the end of a report so couldn't confirm what I thought I'd partly heard...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 12:50 PM


A lot of nonsense is spoken about what will and will not happen after Brexit. Until an agreement is reached we cannot be sure what will happen


What is nonsense and what isn't will be revealed in time. I just ask that those who insist it is nonsense are willing to take responsibility for their decision. It is not the EU's fault, or May's fault or anyone else if, knowing where we are now and what is predicted, you decide it must go ahead. As adults we are responsible for our decisions. Blaming someone else if it doesn't work out as you hope is not.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Mossback
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 12:51 PM

Is Reclaim our sovereignty the same as Let's go back to when Britain ruled the waves?

No, its the same as "Make AmeriKKKa Great Again".


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Subject: RE: BS: Is this Brexit 4?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Aug 19 - 03:16 PM

If the EU and UK cannot agree a deal, both will have to place tariffs on the other. It may be illogical, but that is how it works.

Source


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