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BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019

Jim Carroll 12 Aug 19 - 08:10 AM
GUEST,JoeG 12 Aug 19 - 09:17 AM
GUEST,JoeG 12 Aug 19 - 09:20 AM
Jim Carroll 12 Aug 19 - 10:16 AM
The Sandman 12 Aug 19 - 10:32 AM
The Sandman 12 Aug 19 - 11:02 AM
GUEST,alan whittle 12 Aug 19 - 05:21 PM
GUEST,JoeG 12 Aug 19 - 05:23 PM
Jim Carroll 12 Aug 19 - 05:37 PM
The Sandman 12 Aug 19 - 05:55 PM
GUEST,JoeG 12 Aug 19 - 06:12 PM
GUEST,JoeG 12 Aug 19 - 06:13 PM
Stewie 12 Aug 19 - 09:17 PM
The Sandman 13 Aug 19 - 03:28 AM
GUEST,akenaton 13 Aug 19 - 03:31 AM
Jim Carroll 13 Aug 19 - 03:40 AM
r.padgett 13 Aug 19 - 04:02 AM
GUEST,alan whittle 13 Aug 19 - 04:08 AM
r.padgett 13 Aug 19 - 04:10 AM
r.padgett 13 Aug 19 - 04:15 AM
Acorn4 13 Aug 19 - 04:19 AM
Rigby 13 Aug 19 - 04:45 AM
GUEST,henryp 13 Aug 19 - 04:53 AM
John MacKenzie 13 Aug 19 - 05:26 AM
Vic Smith 13 Aug 19 - 05:58 AM
Vic Smith 13 Aug 19 - 06:07 AM
r.padgett 13 Aug 19 - 08:15 AM
BruceL 13 Aug 19 - 09:40 AM
GUEST,jim bainbridge 13 Aug 19 - 10:26 AM
GUEST 13 Aug 19 - 12:13 PM
r.padgett 13 Aug 19 - 01:45 PM
The Sandman 14 Aug 19 - 01:44 PM
Jim Carroll 15 Aug 19 - 03:13 AM
The Sandman 15 Aug 19 - 03:29 AM
GUEST,Joe G 15 Aug 19 - 03:42 AM
The Sandman 15 Aug 19 - 03:57 AM
GUEST,Joe G 15 Aug 19 - 04:08 AM
The Sandman 15 Aug 19 - 04:09 AM
The Sandman 15 Aug 19 - 04:15 AM
GUEST,Joe G 15 Aug 19 - 04:17 AM
The Sandman 15 Aug 19 - 04:27 AM
GUEST,Joe G 15 Aug 19 - 04:30 AM
GUEST,Joe G 15 Aug 19 - 04:32 AM
GUEST,Some bloke 15 Aug 19 - 04:35 AM
GUEST,Joe G 15 Aug 19 - 04:43 AM
The Sandman 15 Aug 19 - 05:10 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Aug 19 - 05:17 AM
GUEST,Some bloke 15 Aug 19 - 10:17 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Aug 19 - 10:30 AM
The Sandman 15 Aug 19 - 11:06 AM
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Aug 19 - 08:10 AM

"I get the impression there is a lot of knee-jerk sour grapes here, simple jealousy of talented people doing a good job and earning recognition for it"
And I gat the impression that people will walk miles to avoid the fact that the clubs have emptied, folk music proper is further away from being popular than it ever was and the term is being used meaninglessly.
Sorry FF - folk music/song is one of our most important cultural treasures and it is being stamped to death by people who seem to not want to know what it is and don't care enough to find out
It is the music of the people and it is being replaced by the products of the music industry - folk music has been ripped up from the grass roots and, to me, that is a bloody shame
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: GUEST,JoeG
Date: 12 Aug 19 - 09:17 AM

I would suspect that many of the folk clubs that have died are those that have been of a more traditional nature and less appealing to younger people (ie under 70 ;-) ) whilst those who present a diverse range of folk material ie traditional and contemporary folk song and music have survived and prospered - eg Black Swan in York, Topic in Bradford, Grove in Leeds, Uxbridge Folk Club etc


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: GUEST,JoeG
Date: 12 Aug 19 - 09:20 AM

An example of one that has died is a Yorkshire club where I went to see Jez Lowe perform - there were about 8 mostly appalling floor singers in each half of the night leaving Jez a very short time for each of his sets.

Needless to say we never went back to that one and I imagine many other people voted with their feet.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Aug 19 - 10:16 AM

"ie traditional and contemporary folk song and music have survived and prospered"
If you’re talking about ‘contemporary fol songs’ based on traditional styles – no problem – I’d lose a third of mr repertoire if I lost those
SA little different from the offering from the BBC’s ‘glittering prizes’ offerings which have little or anything to do with folk songs   

Bad clubs and poor performances played a part in the disappearance of clubs, but I have equally walked out of poorly performed diverse, non-folk material because it was bad and because it was not what I had been told it was - two for the price of one.
I wish I had a pound for every time I’d been embarrasses bus some inept singer mumbling introspection into his armpit and butchering the tune on his out of tune guitar
It doesn't matter how varied singing is if it is crappily executed
We ran workshops to help new singers and thereby, improve the standards of our clubs

If you are suggesting that traditional clubs = bad nights or are unable to provide a variety - not my experience, I'm afraid
The traditional repertoire is wide and extremely varied enough not to try to please all of the people all of the time
I don't wish to sit and listen to badly or well performed Buddy Holly or Ed Sheeran songs, any more than I suspect those who do want to listen to Joe Heaney or the Stewarts songs - try to please everybody and you end up pleasing nobody - even if you hijack the term "folk" to draw your audience in - diff'rent strokes for diff'rent blokes and blokesses every time
Jim


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Aug 19 - 10:32 AM

joe g, you have just contradicted yourself JEZ LOWE DOES NOT PERFORM OR PERFORMS VERY LITTLE TRAD MATERIAL.yet you say the club has closed, and you suspect clubs that have closed are because they book trad artists, perhps it was that the club was not well promoted, OR BADLYORGANISED OR BECAUSE OF THE BAD FLOORSINGERS QUOTE FROM YOUR POST

I would suspect that many of the folk clubs that have died are those that have been of a more traditional nature and less appealing to younger people.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Aug 19 - 11:02 AM

It is the music of the people and it is being replaced by the products of the music industry - folk music has been ripped up from the grass roots and, to me, that is a bloody shame. JIM CARROLL QUOTE
well said that man


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: GUEST,alan whittle
Date: 12 Aug 19 - 05:21 PM

I think it gets called folk music, also because of an artistic perspective - a perspective that helps the artist with the vision for what he wants to create. Perhaps folk song is a point of reference when the artist is fashioning his work

Its not really folk music - that's something that the folk decide over a period of time. But theres nothing wrong with aspiring to write a folk song or a folk tune,

Creativity is good. Hurting people is bad.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: GUEST,JoeG
Date: 12 Aug 19 - 05:23 PM

Fair point Dick but you don't need to shout - I suppose what I was inferring was that the people who ran the club were more interested in listening to themselves than listening to a superb crafter of songs - so yes bad organisation but my point stands - successful clubs are generally those who offer a wide range of folk music and, I would add, embrace young talent such as some of those shortlisted for the awards.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Aug 19 - 05:37 PM

"I think it gets called folk music,"
It's called folk music because it was made and sung by 'the folk' - the 'ordinary' people
That's how it has been documented since the 1830s when it was first applied to its sister art 'Folk' lore and 'folk' tales and 'folk' dance and all the other artistic related 'folk' arts
Someone with your social and political outlook on life should be proud of that Al - not trying to explain it away
Jim


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Aug 19 - 05:55 PM

no joe, suucessful clubs are ones that are advertised well and organised well and have   good residents and good regular performers, being shortlisted for an award is not in my opinion anything to do with it. you quoted a club that jez lowe was booked at that closed, jez does not perform trad material, he has a good rep as a song writer yet the club closed . where is the connection with trad music, you rr cooments make no sense, other than the club was poorlu organised and had poor floor singers , ok so if the club had been well organised and had good residents and jez had a proper length of set[ an example of bad gorganisation] you would have enjoyed the evening more, that is my point. none of which has anything to do with wide range of folk music but more to do with good quality music


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: GUEST,JoeG
Date: 12 Aug 19 - 06:12 PM

yes of course Dick you are right you always are

I just find the negative attitude to the musicians shortlisted for the awards musicians tiresome - it is as if by being short listed in some people's minds it immediately makes them less relevant to folk music.

Why not applaud their success and recognise that the event increases the awareness of folk music which has to be a good thing surely? I have in the past been involved in a Yorkshire based music awards and we have always said it is about awareness raising and recognition of talent in the county, giving a chance for people to come together and celebrate the wealth of live music we have here. I see the folk awards as a similar celebration. I only know a small number of this year's finalists but I look forward to discovering those who I have not come across previously


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: GUEST,JoeG
Date: 12 Aug 19 - 06:13 PM

I would add that all those I do know are superb so I have some faith in the shortlisting panel's choices


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: Stewie
Date: 12 Aug 19 - 09:17 PM

Joe, I agree totally with your comment about the 'negative attitude'. I agree that the competitive aspect is meaningless, but if the list draws attention to some fine music, well and good. To describe the output of excellent performers as 'crap', 'pop pap', 'introspective strummers', 'codswallop', 'commercial abuse of people's music' etc is simply ridiculous. Whatever label you care to hang on them, the recent albums by Lisa O'Neill, Stick in the Wheel, Ye Vagabonds, The Trials of Cato, Karine Polwart and Kris Drever are fine musically and lyrically and a source of enjoyment for many. Many of these artists have grown up within and remain a part of the folk scene. Several of the artists on the list are unknown to me, but I will see if I can find their music on Youtube. I am surprised that recent albums by Daoiri Farrell and The Gloaming were not mentioned.

--Stewie.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 03:28 AM

no as far as i am concerned it is nothing to do with anyones music but the principle is of this sort of award.I think these ards are not a good idea, what has that got to do with anyonesmusic , i am no more always right than you, you sanctimonious troll,i just have a different opinion to you, that is known as free speech


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 03:31 AM

Daoiri is "folk" to his bootstraps regardless of how you define it. Watching and listening to him perform gives one an instant connection to the music.....it's all about emotion and connecting people to the music.
I have been listening to Daoiri a lot over the last few years.....and you know it when you hear it.
I would just add that not everyone is capable of showing or feeling raw emotion....the younger generation are generally deficient, of perhaps conditioned to suppress it.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 03:40 AM

It is not 'negative' to suggest that those on the list receiving awards are not singing folk songs - that is just stating a fact
This is not to say they couldn't if they tried - but no sign of it here
We met and talked to Lisa O'Neill at the premier of the Joe Heaney film, 'Man of Granite'
Her singing in the film was excellent - a far cry from her award winning, drearily dragged out, dirgy 'Factory Girl'
If you are going to award a competent singer it needs to be for good singing.
The Awards are just the BBC being the BBC and capitalising on something of which they neither have knowledge or interest (any more - they once did have, in spades)
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: r.padgett
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 04:02 AM

Well at least I helped flag up Radio 2 Folk programme and its annual awards programme

Once again it seems no televised version ~ this for me is an opportunity missed

seen some great acts recently at Warwick and Saltburn who are "doing it"

selection Martin Windham Read and Iris Bishop, Bill Adair, Keith Donnelly, Miriam Backhouse, Chris Sherburn & Denny and Emily, the Hut People, Tom McConville, Dog Watch, Monkeys Fist, The Wilsons, Les Barker
Stan Accrington,Paul Walker & Karen Pfeiffer, Flossie and whole hog full of local heroes wherever you go

One wonders if the Awards nominees has a regional bias ~ well I don't know!! or perhaps the nominators have a different agenda?

Ray


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: GUEST,alan whittle
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 04:08 AM

doesn't exactly set your mind on fire, does it?


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: r.padgett
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 04:10 AM

Yes I am aware of the Awards categories and the strength and depth of "artists" is very deep and the quality very high ~ ppl go to folk festivals to do their thing dancing singing story telling, playing tunes and not necessarily to hear the newest bright you things

My view is that traditional folk should be the base ~ song writing is contemporary folk and good songs do rise to the surface ~ O'Hooley and Tidow with Gentleman Jack?

All food for thought


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: r.padgett
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 04:15 AM

Not to mention the Sheffield based younger folkies eg Rosie Hood, Molly Pipe, Matt Quinn, Jesse and Richard Arrowsmith, The Davenports family etc

Ray


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: Acorn4
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 04:19 AM

Really surprised Granny's Attic weren't included at some point.

I know they are not new kids on the block any more but they are still on the bill at most of the big festivals.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: Rigby
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 04:45 AM

On a slight tangent, I'm puzzled by the number of people who come to prominence as good singers of traditional songs, then switch to performing mostly self-written material that often isn't much cop and never record the traditional material that attracted attention in the first place. Is there more money in being a mediocre singer-songwriter than in being a good singer of traditional song? Or is it that they always planned to have careers as singer-songwriters and just used the folk scene as a springboard?


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 04:53 AM

There is a still a lot to feel strongly about! No doubt singers today have the same urge to tell a story as the older singers.

Some, of course, will express themselves better than others. As ever, time will weed out the weaker songs.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 05:26 AM

Double royalties Rigby, double royalties. Or perhaps a bigger share of said royalties, when there is no writer to pay.

Trad arr MacKenzie


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: Vic Smith
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 05:58 AM

Sometime ago (but I have been too busy to respond) Joe G.wrote:-
It would be nice if instead of criticising these musicians some of you were more supportive of them. I find the narrow minded, anal attitude on here truly appalling sometimes. A shame as there are many worthwhile contributions from people who love music and don't belittle mostly younger musicians' contributions to the rich tapestry of folk music in the UK

I would suggest that Joe has got hold of the wrong end of the stick. I read most of the criticism of the Folk Awards here as coming from those who think that an "award" being chosen by a small coterie of music professionals does not have any value or validity. I agree that there are many exciting young performers that have emerged on the scene and it gladdens my heart when I hear them; I booked Matt Quinn when he was still a schoolboy and Hazel & Emily Askew both still at school and driven to the gig by their father when they did their first gig for us. But I don't want to hear that one has an award and the other doesn't. I can't see the point when we should just be delighted that talented young singer/musicians have chosen traditional song and music because of their love of it. Why compare? Just be glad that we have that those three and many others have developed into admirable performers and people.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: Vic Smith
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 06:07 AM

Guest ST wrote:-
I’ve always been impressed by those ‘professionals’ who get down to their local sessions and take their turn in a singaround with the rest of us. It’s one of the things that makes ‘folk’ special to me (and, yes, I’m sure there are plenty of other genres that it could be applied to as well.)

I was at a really excellent song and tune session in the village of Partridge Green in Sussex a couple of weeks ago. The 40+ people there packed out the room. Martyn Wyndham-Read and Iris Bishop were sitting quietly there - but they only got their two songs along with the rest of us.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: r.padgett
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 08:15 AM

Yea great stuff Vic Smith ~ really great to go to the KIT session Sheffield (Kelham Island Tavern) and young thrusters and oldies taking their turns in an unaccompanied sing of largely trad songs

Ray


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: BruceL
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 09:40 AM

People might be interested in the BBC Folk Awards rules - always instructive to see how decisions are arrived at and who they are made by. One extract from the 2018 Awards [I can't find the 2019 ones online] - "The Voting Panel is made up of approximately 150 people. The Panel is comprised of those persons who have a professional or semi-professional interest in folk music, i.e. journalists, broadcasters, festival and club organisers, venue bookers, record company personnel, folk music academics, etc." The full rules for 2019 are at the BBC Website. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/c7mfYt17wxPXmfdttl7HDS/folk-awards-rules


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 10:26 AM

For many years my reaction to the phrase 'singer-songwriter' has been to groan (yes there are many good, even excellent ones)- I now 4xperience a similar reaction to 'award-winning' and after hearing some of the bilge coming out of the Edinburgh Festival. I think I'll add 'stand-up comedian' - oh, and ACCLAIMED in any context equals AVOID AT ALL COSTS....


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 12:13 PM

RTE announced their inaugural Folk Awards in 2018. Just out of curiosity, here are the winners.

Best Folk Singer - Radie Peat
Best Traditional Folk Track - Bean Dubh A’ Ghleanna – Muireann Nic Amhlaoibh
Best Folk Instrumentalist - Martin Hayes
Hall of Fame - Tom Munnelly
Hall of Fame - John Reilly
Best Original Folk Track - Along the Western Seaboard – Declan O’Rourke
Best Folk Album - Haven - We Banjo 3
Best Emerging Folk Artist - Emma Langford
Best Folk Group - Lankum
Lifetime Achievement Award - Andy Irvine


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: r.padgett
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 01:45 PM

Yes yes I would have to agree regarding non nomination of Grannys Attic and Cohen Braithwaite Kilcoyne ~ this young man was overlooked last year I think ~he is a very talented musician and singer in great demand ~ his introductions and confidence have improved greatly

So ~lets see what happens now

Ray


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 01:44 PM

Ido not agree with these awards regardless of the winners.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 03:13 AM

As far as I am concerned, there is little that can be done about clubs indifferent enough to what damage has been done to both folk songs and the folk scene to continue to pass off whatever they fancy as "folk" (without being able to define the term), but, in my opinion, a licenced finaned organisation like the BBC needs to be held to account for their behaviour towards one of the most important of our performing arts.
If they tried to pass off any old sound as 'Classical' there's be screams of protest from Glyndebourne to The Albert Hall

I caught the tail end of the 2019 Eisteddfod last night (never a fan of this, but at least it was musical) and was appalled at the dreadful mush that was being passed off as Welsh Traditional'
It seems the disease is spreading
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 03:29 AM

Well Said Jim.this is what i consider a folk song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_hdYgzjdKU


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 03:42 AM

Have you guys not heard of evolution? Like most firms of art folk music evolves and changes. To use Jim's 'classical' music analogy the soundworld of James McMillan, Arvo Part and other contemporary composers is very different from Mozart but they are still regarded as contemporary 'classical' composers by many in the same way that the many of the artists shortlisted in the awards are contemporary folk artists


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 03:57 AM

Iam going on a summers holiday by cliff richard is not a classical music composition neither is buddy holly singing peggy sue a classical composition.
royal garden blues is jazz , not classical music
lucille is a country composition not a classical compostion, these are definitions.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 04:08 AM

Yes but all the finalists in the Folk Awards perform a form of traditional or contemporary folk music

You two stick to your narrow, view of what folk music is and I'll stick to my broader approach - one that is generally accepted by most successful and enduring folk clubs, festivals and record labels

Time has moved on and I'm very glad we have a surfeit of fabulous traditional and contemporary folk to listen to and celebrate


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 04:09 AM

joe g are you going to call this jazz or classical music, slim whitmanhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY-_-U5-rP4


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 04:15 AM

Sorry joe, I gave an example of a folk song [the bold fisherman], do you agree that the bold fisherman is a folk song, why is that narrow you have not answered my question is peggy sue a classical composition?.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 04:17 AM

Nope but it has no relevance to those forms. The shortlisted Folk Awards artists' music is very much folk music even if in a broad sense in some cases.

Anyway we are never going to agree on this so there is little point arguing any further - especially if you are going to make ridiculous comments such as the last one Have a good day


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 04:27 AM

ridiculous ? no it emphasises the need for definitions, if i see a classical concert advertised i do not expect to hear a buddy holly tribute band.
I have stated that i do not think these awards are a good idea, that in no way reflects upon any of the performers[ or whether what they play is good music, pop music or folk music] who took part , is that clear.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 04:30 AM

Our responses crossed. Of course The Bold Fisherman is a folk song. As are the songs of Karine Polwart, those performed by Stick in The Wheel and Ye Vagabonds, the music played by Sam Sweeney etc


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 04:32 AM

That should have said 'As the music played by Sam Sweeney is folk music'


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: GUEST,Some bloke
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 04:35 AM

I reckon that if Kit Bailey reads this thread, she will feel that The Folk Awards are doing it right and heading in the right direction.

It's interesting that this musical genre, based on evolution and reflecting today to serve as a record for future generations is littered with those who think it should stand still at the time they became interested in it. The Folk Revival was a discovery, not an invention.

The medium is altering yet the interest and participation in the music itself is stronger than ever. I reckon some are introducing nostalgia. I say what I usually say in these debates; Cecil Sharp would be bemused to say the least to see melodeons accompanying Morris....


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 04:43 AM

Well said SB!


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 05:10 AM

no some bloke , i have never stated that it should stand still, i have stated that i believe these awards are not the way i would like to see it move forward , that is completely different.
I enterd the folk revival in 1966 the first person i saw in a folk club was ralph mctell singing blind blake songs, then i heard gerry lockran singing blues in a folk club i later heard tradtional songs, so my musical taste EVOLVED , i still like ralph mctell, i still like some blues performers.
I also like jazz and classical music, I also like the smodern songs written by various performers Bill caddick, MacColl, Peter Bond, Rosselson
you have made assumptions about my musical tastes that are wrong.
I have never stated that the folk revival should stand still, I said that these awrds are not a good idea ,
I also said that i think that these awards are not a good idea, i do not think they are the best way to develop the music, or the best way for this music to evolve, that does not mean that i think the music should stand still, it never does that any way, because most singers who understand tradtional music, cause it to evolve by altering the way they sing it and putting their own interpretation on the song. if you think that tradtional music is standing still you have no understanding of the nature of the beast.Some Bloke you have once again shown your ignorance of tradtional music.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 05:17 AM

"Have you guys not heard of evolution? "
Dead forms don't evolve - they only decay
Elizabethan madrigals died out with the Golden Age - didn't stop people continuing to play them or even use the forms to create new music, but they were working in a dead tradition
We took traditional songs, sang them, listened tto them and enjoyed them for decades - and we made and sangs using new forms
You have usurped the veues we created, stolen the name and are now passing off pop-sounding stuff in it's place - nothing 'evolutionary about that - technically it's called 'acculturation'
In doing so, not only have you robbed future generations of enjoying the creative art of our predecessors and also are gradually destroying even the identity of that important art form
Whatt you are doing is equivalent to calling Eastenders "Shakespeherian"
Both have their values as entertainment and culture (I suppose) but both are different beasts

Evolution involves entire genres and species into something identifiable else - you people ca't even agree between you what it has evolved into or what are its identifying features - and the only people you represent are a minute and rapidly diminishing number
You have sold our folk identity back to the Music Industry it gave us a workable alternative to
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: GUEST,Some bloke
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 10:17 AM

Yeah, I'll go out and get pissed on my blood money...

Even fossils change their constituent make up whilst keeping their form.

Funny how those not interested in the exciting evolution of folk are the first to complain about what they don't even know. Elizabethan madrigals as Jim seems to be fascinated by them) get played in churches now, as they did under old Bess. Try that stunt when Cromwell was in charge. Then back to churches, then the Victorians pushed them out to concert halls. Back in churches now, as well as everywhere else.

Music as described here exists. You hear it in folk clubs, singarounds, concerts and especially on Youtube. Personally, I'll hear it on BBC iPlayer Radio a few days after the next exciting awards night. zzzzzzzzzzzzz.


(Watch out Joe G, agreeing with me can be fun around here. If you don't wear your trousers up to your tits, you don't know much. ??)


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 10:30 AM

"as Jim seems to be fascinated by them"
I'm not - please don't attribute things to me that are simply not true
I used them as a dead form that has successfully survived down the ages without being damaged and without being acculturated
The BBC has nothing to do with folk song and has been handed back to the tender mercies of the establishment
Having 186 an estimated surviving clubs being described as 'successful' says what needs to be said
im Carroll


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2019
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 11:06 AM

If you don't wear your trousers up to your tits, you don't know much. what an idiotic comment


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Mudcat time: 21 September 9:46 PM EDT

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