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BS: electric cars, when....?

Mr Red 17 Jun 19 - 06:14 PM
robomatic 19 Jun 19 - 12:56 AM
BobL 19 Jun 19 - 03:31 AM
Mr Red 22 Jun 19 - 03:05 AM
EBarnacle 22 Jun 19 - 11:40 AM
robomatic 23 Jun 19 - 06:36 PM
Mr Red 24 Jun 19 - 12:31 PM
Charmion 24 Jun 19 - 12:51 PM
Mr Red 25 Jun 19 - 04:56 AM
Stanron 25 Jun 19 - 05:40 AM
David Carter (UK) 25 Jun 19 - 09:43 AM
robomatic 25 Jun 19 - 06:49 PM
Nigel Parsons 26 Jun 19 - 11:12 AM
Mr Red 27 Jun 19 - 02:20 AM
Dave the Gnome 27 Jun 19 - 06:47 AM
robomatic 27 Jun 19 - 08:51 PM
Bonzo3legs 30 Jun 19 - 07:13 AM
robomatic 02 Jul 19 - 10:31 PM
robomatic 03 Jul 19 - 02:08 AM
Mr Red 03 Jul 19 - 12:23 PM
Steve Shaw 03 Jul 19 - 12:50 PM
Jack Campin 23 Jul 19 - 12:34 PM
robomatic 23 Jul 19 - 04:41 PM
Mr Red 24 Jul 19 - 03:12 AM
The Sandman 25 Jul 19 - 09:43 AM
The Sandman 25 Jul 19 - 09:47 AM
robomatic 25 Jul 19 - 11:52 PM
Mr Red 26 Jul 19 - 03:03 PM
The Sandman 05 Aug 19 - 03:03 AM
The Sandman 05 Aug 19 - 03:05 AM
Nigel Parsons 05 Aug 19 - 05:01 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: electric cars, when....?
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Jun 19 - 06:14 PM

You can rent soft-tops but I don't advise it!


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Subject: RE: BS: electric cars, when....?
From: robomatic
Date: 19 Jun 19 - 12:56 AM

Because if you rent soft tops they get 'wrent'?


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Subject: RE: BS: electric cars, when....?
From: BobL
Date: 19 Jun 19 - 03:31 AM

No, if you rend them they get rent.


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Subject: RE: BS: electric cars, when....?
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Jun 19 - 03:05 AM

If you render them it would be a whitewash..........


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Subject: RE: BS: electric cars, when....?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 22 Jun 19 - 11:40 AM

A future for electric vehicles

The future is coming our way whether we want it or not. The manufacturers are going to be converting and acceptance will grow. The real issue is grown the infrastructure so that it is practical to own a BEV


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Subject: RE: BS: electric cars, when....?
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Jun 19 - 06:36 PM

Well, what's most likely to happen is what's happened in the past. Those who wish to spend the money form the leading edge of new-tech consumers. I've been on the highways of California and noticed the sleek Teslas gliding through traffic, and I've noticed people noticing them. I've seen exactly one Tesla in Anchorage, and full of old fashioned ideas of how things get done, I followed the car until I had an opportunity of asking the driver who owned the Tesla dealership? Silly OLD me. You buy them off the internet!
And what will really sell them in America is that electric motors have ultimate low end torque and, if made properly will be extremely low wear and maintenance, kinda the motor equivalent of the LED lightbulb (although my bedside LED lamp just died). Whether powered directly by batteries or fuel cells, or hybrid, electric motors will have their own appeal.

In the northern climes, or for anywhere that still gets cold after the planet has warmed up, there will be a slight electric disadvantage in that it is expensive to use electricty as a heat source. Reason being, unless you're using hydroelectric or nuclear sources for your electrical generation, chances are high in America anyway that you've burned something somewhere for that electricity. So using electricty as a heater source, although typically safe and clean, means that you've burned fuel to be turned to electricity to be turned into heat, when you could've simply burned the fuel for heat to begin with. Nevertheless, for a large part of the modern world, the freedom from exhaust pollution in crowded cities and suburbs and the ability to charge one's vehicle overnight when the electric rates might be lower will be liberating.

Also, in theory AND practice, movement through electric motors will be more efficient than through internal combustion and transmission systems. There are even some electric aircraft on the market.

Now, everyone should know that you don't use technology without tradeoffs. One of them will be that the damn things are way quieter than traditional auto engines. It will be easy to not hear them when you're crossing the street reading your phone....So there will have to be car announcers that are always on if the engine is on and the vehicle is moving. You can have the traditional back-up beep that so many trucks and delivery vehicles have, plus a somewhat smoother or purrier sound for forward motion. Maybe even a warning rattle for 'not moving, but not off'. And the approaching car might be able to bluetooth you on your phone you're reading and warn you explicitly to get out of the way. Or it could slow down while your phone prepares to file a suit in preparation for your anticipated injuries.

And like I writted earlier, for certain maintenance or repair the electromechanic will have to go through a grounding procedure before sticking his low-resistance digits where they might be fried off (in the electrical business the technical term for this effect is 'crispy critters'). And batteries under impact may short out and lead to electrocuted people and flash fires. Likewise with fuel cells.

It's a Brave New World all over again.


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Subject: RE: BS: electric cars, when....?
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Jun 19 - 12:31 PM

It will be easy to not hear them .... at low speeds, when danger is at its least. At 30 mph the tyre noise is way up cf normal cars (not pimped megaphonies). And they will market special loudspeakers to make a noise, and then it will be the fashion to make non-car type noises. Goddamit they make trucks that shout "stand clear" just when they are stopped at traffic lights, let alone reversing!

In the northern climes ..... AFAIK, all batteries loose capacity at lower temperatures, through capacity & internal resistance. Then there is the need for a heater. I well remember going for a job at Lucas Industries in the 70s. They had two prototype electric vehicles and they were fast. Then I noticed the filler cap and wondered why they had left it on there. "Paraffin for heating" says the man!

There are battery life issues, but there are end of life solutions like home storage, which is not as wearing on the battery. And in 10 years the efforts of the father of the Lithium Ion battery John_B._Goodenough (and team) will have perfected his new idea. He is still working on it in his 90s. And the race is on elsewhere because of all the battery gadgets around.

If it's Betamax v VHS all over again, the momentum is obvious, apart from sheer cost comparisons.


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Subject: RE: BS: electric cars, when....?
From: Charmion
Date: 24 Jun 19 - 12:51 PM

Mr Red, the majority of collisions happen at low speed. Parking lots, for example, are veritable hot-beds of collision risk, with vehicles and pedestrians starting abruptly without warning and wandering around at unpredictable angles, all at low speed. What low-speed collisions are not is, typically, likely to cause a fatal injury -- unless, of course, the slowly moving vehicle knocks a pedestrian down and then proceeds to roll over her. Which happens.

Until the car industry can produce an electric vehicle that can cover typical inter-urban distances in Canada, in winter, in the same time and at about the same cost as a petrol- or diesel-fired vehicle, sales in this country will be paltry.


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Subject: RE: BS: electric cars, when....?
From: Mr Red
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 04:56 AM

sales in this country will be paltry.

I refer you to John B Goodenough - Watch this space.

And petrol cars driven in car parks are a menace. Car parks are for stationary cars, pedestrians have priority, but not in the minds of some. Some self centred idiots. Artificial noises are not beyond the bounds of technology, marketing or the legislature.

Don't forget that it was an electric car that held the world speed record when petrol engines were still pre-adolescent.
Petrol engine design is mature now, the exponential improvements thereto are close to the asymptote. Electric cars have been given a new avenue of improvement with a new asymptote.

It all depends what timescale you are envisioning. Give it 10 years, I fully intend being around to see if I am right.

I can see potential for an entrepreneur to have electric hire cars at intervals fully charged. Leave the empty one to charge for the next person. Not a cheap solution but how cheap is boiling water to extract fuel from tar sands, then ferrying petrol around the country? Look to the total cost, and then look to the environment and pollution in the hinterlands of Canada.

FWIW I see the mix of driven and driverless cars far more of concern. And there is momentum building in that genre!


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Subject: RE: BS: electric cars, when....?
From: Stanron
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 05:40 AM

Mr Red wrote: I can see potential for an entrepreneur to have electric hire cars at intervals fully charged. Leave the empty one to charge for the next person.
It wouldn't have to be whole cars. If you had easily accessible and standardised battery packs you could just exchange drained batteries for charged ones.


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Subject: RE: BS: electric cars, when....?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 09:43 AM

Pedestrians have priority on pedestrian crossings and pavements. Not sure how being in a car park changes that.


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Subject: RE: BS: electric cars, when....?
From: robomatic
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 06:49 PM

Regarding driving through car parks. Well, I show up daily at a coffee establishment in front of a mini-mall. There is 90 degree parking on both sides of the access 'street' which bears no name yet is treated as a street because it is open at each end. 90% of the folks there ae slow and careful, but those who treat it like a street are not on a schedule and there are near misses all the time.

Come to think of it, there are parking areas where people drive through at street speeds as well.

So yes, pedestrians have priority. But at their peril!

And I just remembered that horror story about the kid in a pickup truck who drove into about ten motorcycles, and killed seven. Being right doesn't lead to staying alive.


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Subject: RE: BS: electric cars, when....?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 11:12 AM

Pedestrians have priority on pedestrian crossings and pavements. Not sure how being in a car park changes that.
A little disambiguation needed:

Pavement:
NOUN
BRITISH
a raised paved or asphalted path for pedestrians at the side of a road.North American term sidewalk.
"he fell and hit his head on the pavement" · [More]
synonyms:
footpath
· paved path · pedestrian way · walkway · footway · sidewalk
any paved area or surface.
"the pavements and columns of these ancient ruins provided the material for more recent structures"
NORTH AMERICAN
the hard surface of a road or street.
synonyms:
highway
· thoroughfare · roadway · road surface · pavement


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Subject: RE: BS: electric cars, when....?
From: Mr Red
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 02:20 AM

They ain't pavements or footpaths any more. They is Footways

In the UK it is appearing on temporary signage and on permanent signs.

Now who and when did they decide that? And bother to discuss the change first?

So, is it paved/tarmaced footway and
dirt/legally protected footpath?


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Subject: RE: BS: electric cars, when....?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 06:47 AM

Dunno but I am always tempted to wander round the countryside changing finger posts to direct people to Public Footbaths

:D


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Subject: RE: BS: electric cars, when....?
From: robomatic
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 08:51 PM

I once received a parking ticket for having my motorcycle parked on the sidewalk.
Made the call.
"Uh, there's no sidewalk in front of the place. Just street."
"The area where the PAVEMENT for the sidewalk would be IS the sidewalk."


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Subject: RE: BS: electric cars, when....?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 07:13 AM

New electric vehicles will have to feature a noise-emitting device, under an EU rule coming into force on Monday - thank goodness for that, otherwise they are bloody dangerous.


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Subject: RE: BS: electric cars, when....?
From: robomatic
Date: 02 Jul 19 - 10:31 PM

Electric cars will save lives
.

Except mine. I'm going to make sure that my electric car will know my exact bum size, and the bum parametric measurements of all approved drivers, so that anyone who steals my electric car will be electrocuted*.





*Through the bum.


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Subject: RE: BS: electric cars, when....?
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Jul 19 - 02:08 AM

I think different makes of electric cars should have different 'makes' of sound:

Volkswagen: Mozart
Mercedes: Beethoven
Toyota: Semisen
Nissan: Shokuhachi
Hyundai: Hip-Hop
Kia:    Mynah Bird
Chevy:   Country Western
Ford:    Spirituals
Jaguar: Blondie
Mini-Cooper: Kraftwerk
Saab:    Bjork
Renault: Charles Aznavour
Peugeot: Maurice Chevalier
Chrysler: Lady GAGA


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Subject: RE: BS: electric cars, when....?
From: Mr Red
Date: 03 Jul 19 - 12:23 PM

BMW: Oasis with attitude
Alfa Romeo: Jane Berkin & Serge Gainsberg - Je T'ame ...Moi non Plus , ooer missus
            or Ravel's Bolero - ooer, ooer missus.
Dace: Gypsy Jazz
Lada: Volga Boat Song
Citroen: Johnny Haliday
Seat: Julio Iglesias
Skoda: Škoda lásky (=Roll Out the Barrel)

FWIW - I am hearing tell of a move to make UK electric cars make petrol engine noises. (other internal combustion engines are available)

And have we seen the claims of Lightyear Solar One? A car clad in PV with a range of 450 miles for a mere $140,000. Advance orders being taken.


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Subject: RE: BS: electric cars, when....?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jul 19 - 12:50 PM

Nissan should be "Don't let Datsun catch you crying..."


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Subject: RE: BS: electric cars, when....?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 Jul 19 - 12:34 PM

The cost of your electric car in places you've never heard of, for people and wildlife you don't give a shit about:

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150402-the-worst-place-on-earth


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Subject: RE: BS: electric cars, when....?
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Jul 19 - 04:41 PM

Cheer up Jack, I didn't read that any of them were Palestinian.


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Subject: RE: BS: electric cars, when....?
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Jul 19 - 03:12 AM

I have since read in the New Scientist (June 9th) that reported that the electric car noise law will become mandatory on all new cars sold in the EU in 2020 (or was it 2021?).

Because of the multifarious regulations re cars in many different countries, most cars have all the various requirements where they don't conflict. So regardless of the Brexshit mess, they will probably have the noises in the UK. I do seriously expect there to be custom retro-fit kits and personalised noises. And bloody volume!


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Subject: RE: BS: electric cars, when....?
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Jul 19 - 09:43 AM

What about the disposal of the lithium batteries


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Subject: RE: BS: electric cars, when....?
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Jul 19 - 09:47 AM

it is the cobalt in lithium batteries that is dangerous, apparantly


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Subject: RE: BS: electric cars, when....?
From: robomatic
Date: 25 Jul 19 - 11:52 PM

well, i guess the depressives can have the lithium and the painters can use the cobalt (blue)


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Subject: RE: BS: electric cars, when....?
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Jul 19 - 03:03 PM

and depressed painters can be charged?


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Subject: RE: BS: electric cars, when....?
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Aug 19 - 03:03 AM

THE LONG TERM FUTURE MIGHT POSSIBLY BE HYDROGEN FUEL POWERED CARS


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Subject: RE: BS: electric cars, when....?
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Aug 19 - 03:05 AM

A hydrogen vehicle is a vehicle that uses hydrogen fuel for motive power. Hydrogen vehicles include hydrogen-fueled space rockets, as well as automobiles and other transportation vehicles. The power plants of such vehicles convert the chemical energy of hydrogen to mechanical energy either by burning hydrogen in an internal combustion engine, or, more commonly, by reacting hydrogen with oxygen in a fuel cell to run electric motors. Widespread use of hydrogen for fueling transportation is a key element of a proposed hydrogen economy.[2]

As of 2016, there are three models of hydrogen cars publicly available in select markets: the Toyota Mirai, the Hyundai Nexo, and the Honda Clarity. Several other companies are working to develop hydrogen cars. As of 2014, 95% of hydrogen is made from natural gas. It can be produced by thermochemical or pyrolytic means using renewable feedstocks, but that is an expensive process.[3] Renewable electricity can however be used to power the conversion of water into hydrogen: Integrated wind-to-hydrogen (power-to-gas) plants, using electrolysis of water, are exploring technologies to deliver costs low enough, and quantities great enough, to compete with hydrogen production using natural gas.[4] The drawbacks of hydrogen use are high carbon emissions intensity when produced from natural gas, capital cost burden, low energy content per unit volume at ambient conditions, production and compression of hydrogen, and the investment required in filling stations to dispense hydrogen


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Subject: RE: BS: electric cars, when....?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Aug 19 - 05:01 AM

As for the earlier suggestion of vehicle/make specific sounds, surely:


BMW: Bob Marley (and the) Wailers


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