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musical brain-teaser

leeneia 17 May 19 - 12:47 PM
G-Force 17 May 19 - 01:27 PM
Stringsinger 17 May 19 - 01:34 PM
leeneia 17 May 19 - 01:55 PM
GUEST,Modette 17 May 19 - 02:22 PM
Stanron 17 May 19 - 02:33 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 17 May 19 - 02:46 PM
Stanron 17 May 19 - 03:37 PM
Tattie Bogle 17 May 19 - 04:05 PM
Andy7 17 May 19 - 05:44 PM
leeneia 18 May 19 - 01:11 PM
Stanron 18 May 19 - 01:49 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 18 May 19 - 02:42 PM
Stanron 20 May 19 - 09:24 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 20 May 19 - 09:52 AM
Stanron 20 May 19 - 11:55 AM
leeneia 20 May 19 - 12:46 PM
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Subject: musical brain-teaser
From: leeneia
Date: 17 May 19 - 12:47 PM

Here's a link to a YouTube video with music I can't figure out:

alemanha

Here a dance troupe from Thuringia is dancing at a festival in Brazil. "Alemanha" means Germany in Portuguese.

The first piece of music they are dancing to caught my fancy, and I decided to transcribe the sheet music. It is surprisingly hard. I can't figure out the timing. Is it 4/4. 3/4, 6/4? The accompaniment, which is a steady thudding, is no help. Maybe the guitarist doesn't know the time signature either.

I have rules for time signatures:

   When the chord changes occur in erratic places, the time is wrong.
   When a phrase is repeated, it ought to occur in the same place in
   the measures.
   A folk piece should not bristle with dots, ties and rests.
   When you just can't play the thing, the time is prob. wrong.

In its quiet way, this is a unique piece of traditional music and deserves to be preserved. Any ideas?


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Subject: RE: musical brain-teaser
From: G-Force
Date: 17 May 19 - 01:27 PM

I feel it as 3/2.


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Subject: RE: musical brain-teaser
From: Stringsinger
Date: 17 May 19 - 01:34 PM

Hi Leenia,

It seems it's in a slow 6/4 time. If you count 1-2-3-4-5-6 as quarter notes.
at the start of the downbeat, it comes out evenly and consistenly at the end..

The polka part is a brisk 4/4


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Subject: RE: musical brain-teaser
From: leeneia
Date: 17 May 19 - 01:55 PM

It's getting better. We agree that it's some kind of triple time.

It's interesting to watch the bass guitarist during the 1:27 minutes that this piece lasts. He does everything but play - calls for more sound, fiddles with his knobs, stands up, sits down, stares at the other guitar, cups his ear, then finally sits down and starts playing when (thank God) the polka starts.


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Subject: RE: musical brain-teaser
From: GUEST,Modette
Date: 17 May 19 - 02:22 PM

Isn't the festival in The Azores and not Brazil?


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Subject: RE: musical brain-teaser
From: Stanron
Date: 17 May 19 - 02:33 PM

I would notate the first part in 3/2. There are 3 slow minim or half note beats in each bar. Good luck with the transcription. I should be able to do you an ABC if you want one.


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Subject: RE: musical brain-teaser
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 17 May 19 - 02:46 PM

I wrote the melody down in 2/4 at first, then decided the rhythm was best captured as 3/2;2/4;4/4 throughout. I give the 3/2 version and my rebarring below.

Mick


X:1
T:Alemanha
N:My original write-down
M:2/4
L:1/8
Q:1/4=80
K:G
|:BB GA|B2 GA|B4|cB A2|EG FA|G4:|
|:AA Bc|d2 AB|c4|dc BA|G2 cB|A4|
Bd GA|B2 GA|B4|cB A2|EG FA|G4 :|

X:2
T:Alemanha
N:Suggested by G-Force & Stringinger
M:3/2
L:1/8
Q:1/4=80
K:G
|:BB GA B2 GA B4| cB A2 EG FA G4:|
|:AA Bc d2 AB c4| dc BA G2 cB A4|
Bd GA B2 GA B4|cB A2 EG FA G4 :|


X:3
T:Alemanha
N:My preferred
M:3/2
L:1/8
Q:1/4=80
K:G
|: BB GA B2 GA B4|[M:2/4] cB A2|[M:4/4] EG FA G4:|
|: [M:3/2]AA Bc d2 AB c4|[M:2/4] dc BA|[M:4/4] G2 cB A4|
[M:3/2]Bd GA B2 GA B4|[M:2/4]cB A4 |[M:4/4]EG FA G4 :|


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Subject: RE: musical brain-teaser
From: Stanron
Date: 17 May 19 - 03:37 PM

Mick

Your number 2 works best for me. It's the smallest file and simplest to read.

X:2
T:Alemanha
N:Suggested by G-Force & Stringinger
M:3/2
L:1/8
K:G
|:BB GA B2 GA B4| cB A2 EG FA G4:|
|:AA Bc d2 AB c4| dc BA G2 cB A4|
Bd GA B2 GA B4|cB A2 EG FA G4 :|


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Subject: RE: musical brain-teaser
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 17 May 19 - 04:05 PM

I'd agree, 3/2 rather than 6/4 or anything else!


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Subject: RE: musical brain-teaser
From: Andy7
Date: 17 May 19 - 05:44 PM

If I was conducting the slow first and third sections, I'd conduct in 2/4, or maybe even 4/4, in sets of 3 bars.

I think this would help the musicians to keep time better than if I conducted in a very slow 3/2.


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Subject: RE: musical brain-teaser
From: leeneia
Date: 18 May 19 - 01:11 PM

Stanron, thanks very much! I love your second version in 3/2 time.

Modette, you may be right about the Azores.

Isn't it an unusual piece of music? I wonder what it's origin is.

Thanks, everybody.


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Subject: RE: musical brain-teaser
From: Stanron
Date: 18 May 19 - 01:49 PM

Leeneia, thanks for the response. In all fairness that was Mick Pearce's second version. I just separated it from his other two versions and removed the tempo instruction to see how the speed worked on the default setting. Nice tune.


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Subject: RE: musical brain-teaser
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 18 May 19 - 02:42 PM

I still think my 3rd version - ie breaking alternate 3/2 bars into 2/4+4/4 - captures the accents of the tune better!

Mick


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Subject: RE: musical brain-teaser
From: Stanron
Date: 20 May 19 - 09:24 AM

Hi Mick. A Capital letter L before a note in ABC code will give accent marks above or below the note. In the one ABC program that will play the file the emphasis is not heard but it is there to be read.

X:1
T:Alemanha
N:capital letter L before a note for accents
M:3/2
L:1/8
K:G
|:BB GA B2 GA B4| LcB A2 LEG FA G4:|
|:AA Bc d2 AB c4| Ldc BA LG2 cB A4|
Bd GA B2 GA B4| LcB A2 LEG FA G4 :|

I just think that this is easier to read.


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Subject: RE: musical brain-teaser
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 20 May 19 - 09:52 AM

Stanron - I did consider that as an option but still thought the 2/4+4/4 captured it better. Listen to the phrasing of the clarinet the 2nd time through.

(When I was playing in a classical guitar quartet I had to play a piece that went 5/8 5/8 4/8 6/8 for a lot of it, so I don't mind the changing time sigs!)

Mick


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Subject: RE: musical brain-teaser
From: Stanron
Date: 20 May 19 - 11:55 AM

I guess we are lucky that we can both have the score we prefer.


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Subject: RE: musical brain-teaser
From: leeneia
Date: 20 May 19 - 12:46 PM

Oops! Mike, Thanks for doing all that work to prepare those ABC files.


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