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Black music in Europe: A Hidden History

Rain Dog 28 Mar 19 - 06:12 AM
GUEST 28 Mar 19 - 07:04 AM
Dave the Gnome 28 Mar 19 - 07:12 AM
Jack Campin 28 Mar 19 - 07:40 AM
Jeri 28 Mar 19 - 07:55 AM
Rain Dog 28 Mar 19 - 08:10 AM
Dave the Gnome 28 Mar 19 - 08:50 AM
wysiwyg 28 Mar 19 - 08:59 AM
FreddyHeadey 28 Mar 19 - 12:21 PM
Dave the Gnome 28 Mar 19 - 01:14 PM
Doug Chadwick 29 Mar 19 - 03:46 AM
GUEST,SB 29 Mar 19 - 07:58 AM
GUEST,SB 29 Mar 19 - 08:00 AM
GUEST 01 Apr 19 - 05:37 AM
GUEST 03 Apr 19 - 08:33 AM
GUEST,Allan Conn 04 Apr 19 - 02:18 AM
Felipa 04 Apr 19 - 12:50 PM
Felipa 04 Apr 19 - 12:54 PM
Thompson 04 Apr 19 - 01:21 PM
David Carter (UK) 04 Apr 19 - 01:34 PM
meself 04 Apr 19 - 01:39 PM
Thomas Stern 04 Apr 19 - 02:06 PM
David Carter (UK) 04 Apr 19 - 02:10 PM
meself 04 Apr 19 - 06:56 PM
David Carter (UK) 05 Apr 19 - 05:27 AM
GUEST,Phil d'Conch 05 Apr 19 - 01:22 PM
David Carter (UK) 05 Apr 19 - 02:56 PM
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Subject: Black music in Europe: A Hidden History
From: Rain Dog
Date: 28 Mar 19 - 06:12 AM

Black music in Europe: A Hidden History - BBC Radio 4

Broadcast yesterday morning Thursday 27.3.19

Before the War
Black Music in Europe: A Hidden History
Series 2

Drawing on rare archive recordings, Clarke Peters' new three-part series explores the hidden history of black music across Europe, from the late 1920s through the war years and beyond.

Black music in Europe doesn’t begin with the arrival of the Empire Windrush at Tilbury. There is a long, rich history preserved on shellac discs that shows how diverse sounds enthralled the continent long before 1948.

Throughout the series, we hear from a huge array of different performers - including classical composers, jazz stars, calypso legends and more - as well as commentators and historians, to get to the heart of early black music in Europe.

Episode 1 – Before the War
Clarke examines the variety of black music recorded in Europe from the late 1920s onwards - hot jazz in Weimar Berlin, calypso in Cardiff Bay and the sounds of the Beguine in Paris. He also investigates the Degenerate Music exhibition held in Dusseldorf in 1938, and hears how the rise of Hitler affected the lives of musicians like trumpeter Arthur Briggs.
Presented by Clarke Peters
Produced by Tom Woolfenden
A Loftus Media production for BBC Radio 4

Black music in Europe: A Hidden History - BBC Radio 4


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Subject: RE: Black music in Europe: A Hidden History
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Mar 19 - 07:04 AM

Music is colorless.


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Subject: RE: Black music in Europe: A Hidden History
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Mar 19 - 07:12 AM

What about the blues?


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Subject: RE: Black music in Europe: A Hidden History
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Mar 19 - 07:40 AM

Did anybody in Europe know about the blues until a generation or more after it was invented?

There were lots of black musicians in Europe before WW1, starting in 1920 seems rather arbitrary. Also US-centric, since the developments mentioned in that blurb were the result of American refugees from racism who found it easier to get out then than it had ever been before.


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Subject: RE: Black music in Europe: A Hidden History
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Mar 19 - 07:55 AM

I would think that the blues had to come from the USA.
Imports from other places might be more direct. Senegal, maybe? (I'm somewhat familiar, but mostly ignorant on the subject.) Just one country.


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Subject: RE: Black music in Europe: A Hidden History
From: Rain Dog
Date: 28 Mar 19 - 08:10 AM

If you follow the links it will take you to the first series from 2017 which started from 1900

It also states on the first series "Much of the music in this series is drawn from Black Europe, a vast boxset issued by Bear Family Records and documenting the sounds of the era."


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Subject: RE: Black music in Europe: A Hidden History
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Mar 19 - 08:50 AM

Music is colorless.

What about the blues?


You see. A thing called a pun is...

Oh, never mind :-)


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Subject: RE: Black music in Europe: A Hidden History
From: wysiwyg
Date: 28 Mar 19 - 08:59 AM

If by "Black" is meant "African Heritage," to whom is its history "hidden"?


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Subject: RE: Black music in Europe: A Hidden History
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 28 Mar 19 - 12:21 PM

poor DtG
Music is colorless.

What about the blues?


I got it. If the mudcat hadn't been invented a generation ago and had a fancy button I think you would have got plenty of

:) :) :) :)


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Subject: RE: Black music in Europe: A Hidden History
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Mar 19 - 01:14 PM

Thanks Freddy :-)


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Subject: RE: Black music in Europe: A Hidden History
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 29 Mar 19 - 03:46 AM

When you have to resort to explaining a joke, DtG, you are in danger of losing the people who might have thought it funny first time round.

DC


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Subject: RE: Black music in Europe: A Hidden History
From: GUEST,SB
Date: 29 Mar 19 - 07:58 AM

The spelling of 'colourless' was wrong.


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Subject: RE: Black music in Europe: A Hidden History
From: GUEST,SB
Date: 29 Mar 19 - 08:00 AM

Its series 2. Does anyone have recodings of series 1?


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Subject: RE: Black music in Europe: A Hidden History
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 19 - 05:37 AM

Black Music in Europe Series 1 goes from about 1900 to 1930
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09jd32b

Series Two goes from the late 1920s to the late 1950s
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0003jgm


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Subject: RE: Black music in Europe: A Hidden History
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 19 - 08:33 AM

Series 2 Episode 2 is now online as of this morning. This episode looks at Black Music in Europe during World War Two.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0003r3c


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Subject: RE: Black music in Europe: A Hidden History
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 04 Apr 19 - 02:18 AM

If we are talking musicians/composers who are black and at least referenced spirituals/african music etc then couldn't we look back to the end of the 1890s beginning of the 1900s with Samuel Coleridge-Taylor? He was at the time one of the most successful and well known English composers.


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Subject: RE: Black music in Europe: A Hidden History
From: Felipa
Date: 04 Apr 19 - 12:50 PM

I heard a programme on BBC Radio 4 one morning this week about the way immigrants from the Carribean brought Jazz to the UK and mainland Europe in the 1940s. It must have been part of the series. Very interesting programme (to me, not a lover of jazz but interested in history and social/cultural matters). You can find the hidden history series programmes on line: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0003r3c


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Subject: RE: Black music in Europe: A Hidden History
From: Felipa
Date: 04 Apr 19 - 12:54 PM

I see "guest" beat me to this link, and that the programme was indeed broadcast yesterday morning.

Episode 3 can be heard live next Wed, 10 April 2019, at 9.30 a.m. and 21.30 a.m. Duration: 28 min.


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Subject: RE: Black music in Europe: A Hidden History
From: Thompson
Date: 04 Apr 19 - 01:21 PM

Sounds as if the early years of this is about refugees from the US escaping to Europe.


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Subject: RE: Black music in Europe: A Hidden History
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 04 Apr 19 - 01:34 PM

According to this link: the black trumpeter John Blanke played at the courts of Henry VII and Henry VIII. And black people were employed in Tudor times in households in a variety of roles, including as musicians. It is not hard to imagine that this would have been even more common in Spain and Portugal. Black music in Europe is not a 20th century thing.


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Subject: RE: Black music in Europe: A Hidden History
From: meself
Date: 04 Apr 19 - 01:39 PM

Well - depends on what you mean by "black music", I suppose. I don't imagine that John Blanke was playing Beale Street Blues on his horn ... !


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Subject: RE: Black music in Europe: A Hidden History
From: Thomas Stern
Date: 04 Apr 19 - 02:06 PM

Bear Family issued a 44-CD collection of music recorded by
African heritage musicians with extensive documentation.


https://www.bear-family.com/various-history-black-europe-the-sounds-and-images-of-black-people-in-europe-pre-1927-44-cd-box.html
Bear Family Black europe

http://black-europe.com/

Best wishes, Thomas.


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Subject: RE: Black music in Europe: A Hidden History
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 04 Apr 19 - 02:10 PM

No. But what was he playing? We have very little idea of what anyone was playing in that era. But I would think it quite likely that black musicians employed in Elizabethan households to play music might well have been playing music learned in their homelands. Many of these people were freed slaves from captured Spanish ships.


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Subject: RE: Black music in Europe: A Hidden History
From: meself
Date: 04 Apr 19 - 06:56 PM

Well, yeah - it would stand to reason that some of these guys (and gals?) might be playing some African-ish music in their off-time, at least. .... But I can't help imagining some Hollywood production in which the Black horn-player suddenly goes all Boogie-Woogie Bugle Boy of Company B in the middle of a solemn procession before the court - to the bemusement, initially, but soon the great delight, of the assembled lords and ladies ....

Sorry - too many Saturday matinees at an impressionable age ....


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Subject: RE: Black music in Europe: A Hidden History
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 05 Apr 19 - 05:27 AM

Are we any better? We very rarely even see African music discussed in this forum, and as far as paying attention to it goes, ok we will probably go and see Toumani Diabate if he is on, but most African music is hijacked by collaborations with western singers such as Damon Albarn.


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Subject: RE: Black music in Europe: A Hidden History
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 05 Apr 19 - 01:22 PM

“Black music &c” = 'Race records' the Bear label holds the copyrights to.

Expensive but good: Fremeaux
eg: Biguine : L'Age D'Or Des Bals Et Cabarets Antillais De Paris (1929 - 1940)

Caution: a lot of the original 1930s recordings are Paris Colonial Exposition type artists. Mind the politics.

The West India Regiments travelled a bit back in their day but the African Zoave dress was straight up Colonial uniform.

The classics
Louis Moreau Gottschalk
Francis Johnson, African-American composer


meself: “...the Black horn-player suddenly goes all Boogie-Woogie Bugle Boy of Company B in the middle of a solemn procession before the court - ...
John_Blanke


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Subject: RE: Black music in Europe: A Hidden History
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 05 Apr 19 - 02:56 PM

https://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/black-composers-who-made-classical-music-history/


https://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2015/jun/02/ten-black-composers-whose-works-deserve-to-be-heard-more-often


Now you may say that most of these black composers composed music in a western style, and that is true. But some of them, Coleridge-Taylor for one, did incorporate African themes into their western compositions.

Nevertheless our knowledge and awareness of genuine African music is really pretty poor. For avoidance of doubt, Jazz and Blues are not African music.


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