mudcat.org: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafeawe

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] [26] [27] [28] [29] [30] [31] [32] [33] [34] [35] [36] [37] [38] [39] [40] [41] [42] [43] [44] [45] [46] [47] [48] [49] [50] [51] [52] [53] [54] [55] [56] [57] [58] [59] [60] [61] [62] [63] [64] [65] [66] [67] [68] [69] [70] [71] [72] [73] [74] [75] [76] [77] [78] [79] [80] [81] [82] [83] [84] [85] [86] [87] [88]


BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

robomatic 20 Mar 19 - 12:06 PM
Jim Carroll 20 Mar 19 - 10:51 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 20 Mar 19 - 09:56 AM
Jim Carroll 20 Mar 19 - 09:38 AM
Backwoodsman 20 Mar 19 - 08:44 AM
Jim Carroll 20 Mar 19 - 07:35 AM
Steve Shaw 20 Mar 19 - 07:09 AM
KarenH 20 Mar 19 - 06:36 AM
Jim Carroll 20 Mar 19 - 04:36 AM
DMcG 20 Mar 19 - 04:22 AM
Iains 20 Mar 19 - 04:11 AM
McGrath of Harlow 19 Mar 19 - 09:16 PM
McGrath of Harlow 19 Mar 19 - 08:56 PM
SPB-Cooperator 19 Mar 19 - 06:59 PM
Jim Carroll 19 Mar 19 - 02:26 PM
DMcG 19 Mar 19 - 02:11 PM
Iains 19 Mar 19 - 02:09 PM
Steve Shaw 19 Mar 19 - 01:10 PM
Jim Carroll 19 Mar 19 - 12:54 PM
Iains 19 Mar 19 - 12:46 PM
Donuel 19 Mar 19 - 09:25 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 19 Mar 19 - 09:09 AM
Backwoodsman 19 Mar 19 - 08:54 AM
Donuel 19 Mar 19 - 08:35 AM
DMcG 19 Mar 19 - 03:47 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 18 Mar 19 - 08:12 PM
McGrath of Harlow 18 Mar 19 - 07:48 PM
Steve Shaw 18 Mar 19 - 07:40 PM
McGrath of Harlow 18 Mar 19 - 06:57 PM
Steve Shaw 18 Mar 19 - 06:24 PM
Iains 18 Mar 19 - 03:00 PM
Jim Carroll 18 Mar 19 - 02:14 PM
Iains 18 Mar 19 - 01:13 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 18 Mar 19 - 01:04 PM
Jim Carroll 18 Mar 19 - 12:46 PM
Iains 18 Mar 19 - 12:37 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 18 Mar 19 - 12:28 PM
DMcG 18 Mar 19 - 12:21 PM
Iains 18 Mar 19 - 12:07 PM
Dave the Gnome 18 Mar 19 - 11:58 AM
bobad 18 Mar 19 - 11:46 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Mar 19 - 11:41 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Mar 19 - 10:54 AM
DMcG 18 Mar 19 - 05:31 AM
DMcG 18 Mar 19 - 04:37 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Mar 19 - 04:15 AM
Backwoodsman 18 Mar 19 - 02:46 AM
Nigel Parsons 17 Mar 19 - 08:15 PM
DMcG 17 Mar 19 - 12:27 PM
Iains 17 Mar 19 - 11:41 AM
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:






Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: robomatic
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 12:06 PM

I'm not sure whether it constitutes INJURY or INSULT, but there is an opinion piece in the Telegraph this morning by none other than the eponymous son of the current United States place holder, apparently arguing that the father gave PM May really good advice when he visited last year, and she did not take it. Since I am not a paying subscriber of the Telegraph I cannot tell of 'Junior' cared to explicitly restate the sage wisdom of The Donald.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 10:51 AM

NOT JUST A TWEET
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 09:56 AM

A little over an hour ago, BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg tweeted:

Implication of what PM saying very forcefully is that she might resign if Parliament or the EU forces delay beyond end of June.

It seems too much to hope for. But Kuenssberg is there on the scene, better politically-informed than those of us out here in internetopia. What do the rest of you make of her comment?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 09:38 AM

May's 'short delay' really has the bastards chasing their own tails, wonder if Lord Snooty and Boris teh Brainless will demand to be present at the beheading ?
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 08:44 AM

Meanwhile, back on the topic of the thread, and without needing to resort to Brexshitters' standard tactics of insult and abuse of other posters on here, an accurate synopsis of the utter shit-pool our insane, incompetent PM and her bunch of clueless acolytes have got us into.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 07:35 AM

"In the British democracy a simple majority wins"
And the majority who voted against Brexit in NI exceeds that of those who voted to leave in Britain - you use one and ignore the other
You depict your leaders as "traitoers" yet describe others who say far less about them as Anglophiles
You really aren't the brightest Iron Cross on the uniform, are you
"And that if they continue to send bombs to the UK it may be friends or even relatives of Jim himself who get maimed or murdered.
You really are every bit as bad as your chosen bedfellow, aren't you?
Are you really never going to respond to anything that has been said
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 07:09 AM

The "majority for remain over leave" in Northern Ireland was 11.56% if you do it by subtracting the percentage of leave votes (44.22%) from remain votes (55.78%).The excess of remain votes over leave votes was 26.1% of leave votes, another way of looking at it. To be even more honest, 440,707 voted remain and 349,442 voted leave, a difference of 91,265, which looks quite impressive considering that only 349,442 voted leave. "A majority of 5.8%" is the most dishonest way of putting it. What is actually meant by that 5.8% is that remain achieved 5.8% (5.78% to be precise) over the 50% passmark. We shouldn't be surprised, I suppose, that rabid brexiteers would select the means of expression that looks most like remain only just made it. Still, I've given you the various ways of putting it. Take your pick. Or your nitpick. You decide.

Interestingly, Catholic's overwhelmingly voted remain (85%) whereas only 40% of Protestants voted remain.

What is intriguing is how these two explanations of voting – the ethnonational and the “left behind” theses – interact. It emerges that Catholics are quite homogenous in their pro-Remain disposition. There was little variation between how working class, less well-educated Catholics voted compared to middle class, better-educated Catholics...

... Higher-skilled and educated Protestants were much more likely than lower-skilled, lower-educated Protestants to vote Remain. There is almost no difference between how Catholics who went to grammar school and those who didn’t voted. But Protestants who didn’t go to grammar school were much more likely to vote Leave than those who did.
[source: theconversation.com]

The same source indicates that anti-immigrationists in Northern Ireland were overwhelmingly more likely to vote leave (ironic or what) as were people who "oppose homosexuality" (not quite sure how that was defined). Good to know who your friends are, brexiteers.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: KarenH
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 06:36 AM

Iains You have gone too far. I was trying to point out that Jim personally seems to have benefited from his life in the UK, as, no doubt, did his father. And that if they continue to send bombs to the UK it may be friends or even relatives of Jim himself who get maimed or murdered.

Iain's posts are being deleted from the bottom (so far) of this thread, so this post should probably also go away, but since Iain has been such a horse's ass there should probably be an occasional reminder to him and others that hateful posts aren't acceptable here. ---ticked-off mudelf


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 04:36 AM

"5.8%. A very small "most" I would say."
In the referendum, 52 percent voted to leave the EU, with 48 percent voting to remain.
Yes indeed
Nice to see someone who accuses critics of the British Government of being "Anglophobes" using terms like "a treacherous Parliament"
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 04:22 AM

The BBC is reporting that May is only going to ask for a short delay, which is what the Brexiteers in the cabinet wanted. With the exception of a general election, I think this rules out any form of public involvement - there is simply not time to agree the referendum question and hold a vote in three months. Equally the Kyle amendment where May's deal is put to a public confirmation hits a severe time barrier, which gets worse with every day's delay.   It seems to me that the final decision (or final indecision) will now be taken in Parliament without involving the public.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 04:11 AM

and of course in 2016 in Northern Ireland most votes were for remaining in the EU.)
To be precise a majority of merely 5.8%. A very small "most" I would say.

shambolic UK government


I would say a treacherous Parliament would be more accurate. The last election was fought on a leave ticket by both major parties. If MPs place their security of tenure above their morality and stand as liars
then what kind of democracy is that?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Mar 19 - 09:16 PM

The winners, whoever they were, can always be relied on to say that giving a chance to change their minds was antidemocratic. The truth isn't anything so high principled. It's simply that they fear people might vote the other way. Or that people who'd been to young might vote to change the result. (The number of new young voters is now far larger than the narrow margin of victory in 2016 - and the evidence is tgey are overwhelming for remaining, since they are probably the ones who stand to lose most in any Brexit.)

Norway, Denmark and Ireland have all had a second vote in analogous circumstances. In Norway this confirmed the decision not to join the EU, in Denmark and Ireland it reversed the earlier one. (In the Republic of Ireland today there is currently something like 84% support for EU membership - and of course in 2016 in Northern Ireland most votes were for remaining in the EU.) So are these countries traitors to democratic principles, while the hilariouslt shambolic UK government is a brave upholder of such principles?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Mar 19 - 08:56 PM

The losing side in any referendum, especially if the result was close, can be relied on to callfor a fresh vote soon enough. That would without doubt have happened if it had gone the other way in 2016. (Nigel Farage even promised on the night the result was declared.). The winner could be relied on to assert that a fresh vote once "the people had spoken" as an attack on democracy. There is no diubt that those favouring remain would have done that too.

But in both cases the actual reason for that wouldn't be anything so high-principled, it's simply a fear that another vote would come up with a different result.

I think that allowing a fresh note is the only democratic way to act. People have a right to change their mind - as time passes people who were too young to vote grow old enough. And of course circumstances mean that the question that needs to be asked changes.

Where there is a significant delay in carrying out the result of a referendum so that the number of fresh voters is greater than the margin of victory, and there is a significant demand for a new vote, it seems to me clear that a comittment to democracy should mean having such a vote.

As for "democracy" could anyone suggest that Norway, Denmark and Ireland are traitors to democracy because in analogous circumstances they had another vote? (In Norway the vote was to confirm the first vote to leave, in Denmark and Norway the outcome was to reverse it.) And tha5 in denying people any


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 19 Mar 19 - 06:59 PM

Watching newsnight - HMRC still haven't put measures in place to exempt UK businesses from changes in customs requirements if UK leaves EU, except for a small handful of businesses. If I was asked to place a bet on who would come of worse in a confrontation between a 42 ton truck and a customs jobsworth, I know where the smart money would be.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Mar 19 - 02:26 PM

Great to see a JACKBOOT FAVOURER talking about something being on the other foot - innit ?
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Mar 19 - 02:11 PM

It is astonishing and simultaneously not in the least out of character to hear the DUP still saying the EU needs to change the deal and some Brexiteers claiming some people saying they might vote differently should be enough to satisfy Bercow's objections. Deliberately blinding yourself to reality is never a good stance.

Still, no doubt this all the EU's fault.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 19 Mar 19 - 02:09 PM

Nonsense!   Just imagine the lefty squeals were the boot on the other foot.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Mar 19 - 01:10 PM

Democracy in this country is predicated on the electorate being able to change its mind every few years. The roots of totalitarianism lie in the fear of the electorate changing its mind away from what the people in power prefer. What has become blantantly obvious is that the only deal on the table that is even remotely in the interests of the people in this country is the deal we currently enjoy with the EU as full and influential members. Not perfect, far from it, but there's simply no competition. No one on this forum, despite repeated requests, has been able to tell us what is going to be any good for this country about brexit. Which reminds me of another tenet of democracy, that we entrust the people we elect to act in our best interests. Theresa May has had to be repeatedly reined in since the referendum over her attempts to subvert parliamentary democracy. Targeting the people who complain about the extremely flawed and undemocratic referendum is a classic example of disingenuously choosing the wrong target.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Mar 19 - 12:54 PM

Beautiful photograph of a gawking crypto-fascist, Nigel Farage posing in front of the British flag, above the phrase used constantly by the British Empire regarding countries they ruled:
IS BRITAIN READY FOR SELF-GOVERNMENT
Don'cha love it !!
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 19 Mar 19 - 12:46 PM

For an institution whose lineage can be traced back 804 years to Magna Carta, Parliament’s descent from consulting the people to dismissing their response has taken less than four years. It’s worth recalling some of the major stages in its decline.

"In June 2015, Parliament voted by a majority of 544 votes to 53 to hold the EU Referendum, rightly recognising that such an important constitutional question could be decided only by the electorate. On best estimates, in June 2016 Britain voted to leave the European Union by 406 parliamentary constituencies to 242. It voted to leave the European Union by 263 voting areas to 119, and by 9 regions to 3.

Conservative-held constituencies in 2016 voted to leave by 247 to 80. Labour-held constituencies in 2016 voted to leave by 148 to 84. In contrast, among 2016 MPs, Remain was the preferred option by 486 to 160.

In February 2017, MPs voted by 498 votes to 114 to trigger Article 50. At the 2017 General Election, approximately 85 per cent of votes were cast for parties pledging in their manifestos fully to implement the Referendum result."

If Brexit is thwarted so is democracy.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Mar 19 - 09:25 AM

There are signs the EU is softening and may let you guys kick the can down the road despite May saying "delay is not a solution".


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 19 Mar 19 - 09:09 AM

It's changed now, but this morning the BBC news page, in the second row under the main headline, wrote:
PM: I Will Not Speak His Name
just above a pictures of May & Bercow. Wow, I thought, she's losing it.

Then I noticed that they meant the New Zealand PM in the main story, referring to the multi-murderer. (Quite right too, deprive him of the PR.) But it gave me a wintry sort of laugh. I take my humour where I can find it these days...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Mar 19 - 08:54 AM

The old ones are the best...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Mar 19 - 08:35 AM

Our cat Brexit yells to go out but when we open the door he just sits there undecided.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Mar 19 - 03:47 AM

There's a slight danger that the EU's forbearance will run out and that they'll tell her to sod off later this week

It may not be as slight as all that, thought I don't think it probable. The words 'traitor' and 'traitorous' have been widely abused and thrown at the slightest provocation, so I am hesitant about using them at all. But since a near text book example would be to encourage a foreign power to act against your government's stated wishes, I can't think of a more appropriate term for Iain Duncan Smith's and Owen Patterson's reported attempts to persuade Hungary and other countries to veto any request from the UK for an extension.

I see two routes to a no-deal as live at the moment. The more likely one is that the EU does not agree to an extension, most likely because of a veto. Should that happen, Bercow will not be able to allow a vote on the deal unless a substantial change is made, under his own ruling. So some amendment will be made to the deal - perhaps by making explicit mechanisms for the rest of Parliament to have a role in the future negotiations. Should Bercow not agree this is sufficient, or should that fail, we could be into no-deal.

The less likely one is that the EU agrees to an extension, but attaches conditions of such severity that Parliament does not accept the extension. As this would require people who votes against no-deal to now prefer it to the conditions, they would have to be very extreme.

(A third path opens if an extension permits a complete restart of the negotiations, but I do not think that is something the EU would consider.)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 08:12 PM

Re ipad: Quick, tell me how you disable that feature. Drives me mad, that does. I spend more time deleting stuff than writing. (Not always a bad idea, though...)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 07:48 PM

Hooray! I've found a way to stop my ipad from "correcting" me like that. From now on any mistakes online will be my mistakes, I hope.


Previous "oops" fixed by a mudelf and correction deleted, so this post may seem non sequitur. But it's cute so it's staying. *---mudelf


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 07:40 PM

She could try to put a motion which sets aside the convention, but I'm pretty sure she will never get a majority for that. There's a slight danger that the EU's forbearance will run out and that they'll tell her to sod off later this week. I doubt it and I think they'll give her their long extension. If you take my meaning. Hope springs eternal.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 06:57 PM

John Bercow has clearly made the only possible ruling that is allowed. He'll never get his peerage from a Tory government now, but then maybe there won’t be one around for long.

One suggested way round would be to prorogue the session, and then have a new one, and run the old deal through again. Apparently the Queen would need to approve it, but that would mean interfering in the political process - and the same would be said if she refused. Since the last time Westminster was prorogued in the middle of a session was in 1628, by Charle. Since the ultimate outcome a few years later it had him getting his head chopped off, she might perhaps be a tad disinclined to risk it.

Perhaps the next antiquated procedure they'll try reviving would be the Act of Attainder, where a person could be executed without any need for a trial, last used in 1728. I suspect they may never have got around to covering that when the death penalty was scrapped, in which case that death penalty might still apply.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 06:24 PM

I'm getting a bit sick of Laura bloody Kuenssberg's obvious bias. She insinuated strongly on the Beeb news that Bercow has "gone beyond his remit," leaning on her possibly unjustified assertion that that is a widespread view in the Commons (has she done a poll?), when he manifestly has done no such thing. I bet the Mail's headline writers will have a field day tomorrow, and, while they won't bother, they could claim to have her onside. She sure is a worthy successor to the right-wing Nick Robinson. And I can hardly wait for Andrew Neil on Thursday night...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 03:00 PM

Constitutional crisis
Berkow has ruled that it would be unconstitutional to vote on the same bill three times


Hardly a crisis! Bercow had wide support from both sides of the house and acted within clearly stated precedents from Erskine May that date back to the 1600's.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 02:14 PM

Constitutional crisis
Berkow has ruled that it would be unconstitutional to vote on the same bill three times
Wonder if any brewery is looking for anybody to organise piss-ups - don't look here
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 01:13 PM

he pulls out yet another example of the establishment defending property over the welfare of the British people - profit before people every time

Actually it is the EU protecting people's rights. I carefully explained this to you above. ............... Oh Dear !!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 01:04 PM

From the BBC's Assistant Political Editor. Says it all.

Speaker's decision is:
- Good for Brexiteers cos it makes No Deal more likely.
- Good for Remainers cos it makes long delay more likely.
The only big loser is... the PM.


Anybody fancy a Kit-Kat?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 12:46 PM

"You are still encouraging him, Jim."
Nah - I'm exposing himn for the eejit he is How does he react to his being exposed - he pulls out yet another example of the establishment defending property over the welfare of the British people - profit before people every time
This really is fun
Now we have the words of a 17th century religious zealot - gets better and better
Think I'll leave it there - he's done what I wanted tyo do far better than I ever could
State dick-suckers, the lot of them
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 12:37 PM

Mr Cromwell had the rights of it in his speech to Parliament!

20 April 1653, London, England

It is high time for me to put an end to your sitting in this place,

which you have dishonored by your contempt of all virtue, and defiled by your practice of every vice.

Ye are a factious crew, and enemies to all good government.

Ye are a pack of mercenary wretches, and would like Esau sell your country for a mess of pottage, and like Judas betray your God for a few pieces of money.

Is there a single virtue now remaining amongst you? Is there one vice you do not possess?

Ye have no more religion than my horse. Gold is your God. Which of you have not bartered your conscience for bribes? Is there a man amongst you that has the least care for the good of the Commonwealth?

Ye sordid prostitutes have you not defiled this sacred place, and turned the Lord's temple into a den of thieves, by your immoral principles and wicked practices?

Ye are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation. You were deputed here by the people to get grievances redressed, are yourselves become the greatest grievance.

Your country therefore calls upon me to cleanse this Augean stable, by putting a final period to your iniquitous proceedings in this House; and which by God's help, and the strength he has given me, I am now come to do.

I command ye therefore, upon the peril of your lives, to depart immediately out of this place.

Go, get you out! Make haste! Ye venal slaves be gone! So! Take away that shining bauble there, and lock up the doors.

In the name of God, go!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 12:28 PM

Ya beat me to it, DMcG. Here's the Beeb's report:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47614074

I must admit I'm surprised too. Guess the DUP aren't going to get their little moment in the spotlight after all.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 12:21 PM

Bercow refuses MV3 without substantial change

I admit this surprises me; I thought he would find a way to let it through. So I am sure we will hear a lot of sound and fury, while May's team is probably relieved as it looked as if they were going to pull it themselves.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 12:07 PM

British people can go and sleep in the park rather than allow them the use of vacant property.

I think the stupidity of that argument has been robustly refuted innumerable times but you still insist on raising it every 5 minutes.
That says a lot about the person constantly raising the issue.

The Equality and Human Rights Commission

Article 1 of the First Protocol: Protection of property.
Every natural or legal person is entitled to the peaceful enjoyment of his possessions.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 11:58 AM

You are still encouraging him, Jim.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: bobad
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 11:46 AM

Brexit bar


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 11:41 AM

These patriots make me howl
They say they love Britain but the thought that British workers might actually have a say in their own lives makes 'em break out in a cold sweat and reach for the shotgun
They claim it is "Anglophobic" to criticise British policy, yet have no problem denigrating elected politics - even at a racist and sexist level, if their politics don't suit
If poor peoplke are in trounble (as in the Grenfel Tower catastrophe) ordinary British people can go and sleep in the park rather than allow them the use of vacant property
Their interest lies in defending the right wing establishment and British big business and the possessions of the wealthy, the British people can go stuff themselves as far as they are concerned - establishment lackeys - the ***** lot of 'em
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 10:54 AM

Whatever they has=ve done in the past they have backed a destructive policy up to the point where they realised who destructive of their own interests and have then done a runner, leaving the country the profess to acting in tehe interests of, up shit's Creel big-time
Since you've resorted to personal insulting again, you are, and always have been a rich man's arse-licker
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 05:31 AM

There is another little subtlety that is easy to overlook. What was agreed last week was that May's deal was this:

===

(2) agrees that, if the House has passed a resolution approving the negotiated withdrawal agreement and the framework for the future relationship for the purposes of section 13(1)(b) of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 by 20 March 2019, then the Government will seek to agree with the European Union a one-off extension of the period specified in Article 50(3) for a period ending on 30 June 2019 for the purpose of passing the necessary EU exit legislation; and


(3) notes that, if the House has not passed a resolution approving the negotiated withdrawal agreement and the framework for the future relationship for the purposes of section 13(1)(b) of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 by 20 March 2019, then it is highly likely that the European Council at its meeting the following day would require a clear purpose for any extension, not least to determine its length, and that any extension beyond 30 June 2019 would require the United Kingdom to hold European Parliament elections in May 2019.

===

What is easily missed is that clause (3) applies if the negotiated agreement has not even been put to MV3. Couple this with Hammond's statement:
=======

"We will only bring the deal back if we are confident that enough of our colleagues, and the DUP, are prepared to support it, so that we can get it through parliament. We’re not going to keep presenting it if we haven’t moved the dial," said the chancellor, Philip Hammond.

=======

and the likelihood of asking the EU for a long extension increases significantly.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 04:37 AM

The way things have gone so far, can you see all that being passed through all the required stages in the next 11 days?

Yes, since you ask. Remember that the Commons have already voted to change the date. That if the date is not changed we get a no deal which the House has also already voted against. That the change has been promised by the Government as part of the debates. That the process is via a statuary instrument, which is not necessarily a new law:

====
Mr Grieve
Just to remind the Secretary of State: there was a second part to the question, which is equally critical. It is that the Government will have to bring a statutory instrument to the House to alter the departure ?date set out in the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. In those circumstances, I assume that the Government are undertaking to do exactly that.

Michael Gove
The Prime Minister and others have said that previously, and I am happy to place on the record once again at this Dispatch Box exactly that commitment.
====

Of course, the ERG will do its damnedest to disrupt the will of Parliament as expressed in its earlier votes. I would expect nothing less of them. And the Government's inability to organise anything is a significant risk. But given that it is not rare to get such things through in less than 24hours, certainly it can be done, assuming the EU have agreed an extension date.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 04:15 AM

"Even if the EU agree to the request, there needs to be legal agreement in parliament to cancel the Brexit "
Grasping at straws tantamount to "We've dropped you in the klarts but it's too late to do anything about it"
The people who are fighting for this are nutters like
LORD SNOOTY who, with one hand wags the flag and with the other, makes sure his own investments are safe by shifting them out of Britain
It's great to see Dyson and AND HIS FELLOW BREXITEERS doing similar - rats and sinking ship springs to mind.
THIS FELLER ACTUALLY MADE IT A PIECE OF ADVICE
UP TO DATE PICTURE HERE
What a fine mess you and yours've got Britain into Nigel
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 02:46 AM

Well, the March edition of The New Yorker has a pretty unequivocal view of the idiocy of BrexShit and its supporters, who seem to have completely lost contact with reality and crossed into a parallel universe.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Mar 19 - 08:15 PM

Yes, amending the date could be dealt with quickly. If the EU agree to the request. We can't unilaterally delay Brexit.
Even if the EU agree to the request, there needs to be legal agreement in parliament to cancel the Brexit which is already in law for 29 March. The way things have gone so far, can you see all that being passed through all the required stages in the next 11 days?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Mar 19 - 12:27 PM

In the past, laws have gone through the entire process in less than 24 hours. Amending the date if it turns out to be required can be changed by a much simpler process than a new law.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 17 Mar 19 - 11:41 AM

The default position is that we leave on the 29th, deal or no deal. Until the law is physically changed we leave on the 29th.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
Next Page

 


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 12 November 4:58 PM EST

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.