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BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

DMcG 10 Jul 19 - 02:11 PM
Stanron 10 Jul 19 - 01:43 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Jul 19 - 01:05 PM
Stanron 10 Jul 19 - 12:55 PM
Nigel Parsons 10 Jul 19 - 12:50 PM
Raggytash 10 Jul 19 - 12:49 PM
Monique 10 Jul 19 - 12:37 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Jul 19 - 11:48 AM
Raggytash 10 Jul 19 - 11:42 AM
Iains 10 Jul 19 - 03:36 AM
Iains 10 Jul 19 - 03:02 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Jul 19 - 02:39 AM
DMcG 10 Jul 19 - 02:20 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Jul 19 - 08:56 PM
Nigel Parsons 09 Jul 19 - 08:18 PM
Nigel Parsons 09 Jul 19 - 08:15 PM
Raggytash 09 Jul 19 - 07:54 PM
Raggytash 09 Jul 19 - 07:36 PM
Nigel Parsons 09 Jul 19 - 07:31 PM
Iains 09 Jul 19 - 04:19 PM
Jim Carroll 09 Jul 19 - 02:56 PM
DMcG 09 Jul 19 - 02:18 PM
Iains 09 Jul 19 - 01:58 PM
peteaberdeen 09 Jul 19 - 01:55 PM
David Carter (UK) 09 Jul 19 - 01:50 PM
DMcG 09 Jul 19 - 01:37 PM
Iains 09 Jul 19 - 12:00 PM
Backwoodsman 09 Jul 19 - 11:38 AM
Dave the Gnome 09 Jul 19 - 11:32 AM
David Carter (UK) 09 Jul 19 - 10:52 AM
Backwoodsman 09 Jul 19 - 10:45 AM
Dave the Gnome 09 Jul 19 - 09:57 AM
Nigel Parsons 09 Jul 19 - 09:35 AM
Nigel Parsons 09 Jul 19 - 09:31 AM
Jim Carroll 09 Jul 19 - 09:23 AM
DMcG 09 Jul 19 - 06:49 AM
David Carter (UK) 09 Jul 19 - 06:37 AM
Backwoodsman 09 Jul 19 - 06:06 AM
Iains 09 Jul 19 - 04:23 AM
David Carter (UK) 09 Jul 19 - 04:03 AM
Backwoodsman 09 Jul 19 - 03:46 AM
Backwoodsman 09 Jul 19 - 03:44 AM
Iains 09 Jul 19 - 03:41 AM
David Carter (UK) 09 Jul 19 - 03:14 AM
Dave the Gnome 09 Jul 19 - 03:10 AM
David Carter (UK) 09 Jul 19 - 03:08 AM
DMcG 09 Jul 19 - 02:26 AM
Nigel Parsons 08 Jul 19 - 03:42 PM
David Carter (UK) 08 Jul 19 - 03:12 PM
DMcG 08 Jul 19 - 10:25 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 02:11 PM

I wonder if our resident Brexit supporters are going to explain Trump's ability to force Sir Kim Darroch to resign illustrates our sovereignty.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 01:43 PM

Is this all lies then?

https://fullfact.org/online/referendum-results-by-constituency/


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 01:05 PM

Not more Labour leave voters than Labour remain voters. We appear to be suffering from a rash of illiteracy around here this afternoon. And we are talking about surveys after the event rather than polls before the event. Of course, no-one can force anyone to tell the truth, but I'd just point out that one individual here who is never on my side of the argument resorts to published polls all the time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 12:55 PM

Steve Shaw wrote: There was not a single constituency in which more Labour voters voted leave than remain. Perhaps you should read more carefully what was typed before hurling your insults around.
This is only true because more than 'one' constituency had more leave voters than remainers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 12:50 PM

There was not a single constituency in which more Labour voters voted leave than remain.
As Iains said, a sweeping statement with no referenced back-up.
As the referendum was a secret ballot, no-one knows how the vote was broken down, any polls are just that, and we saw around the referendum just how accurate polls may be (or not).


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 12:49 PM

Thank you Monique


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Monique
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 12:37 PM

Link to the BBC Site


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 11:48 AM

There was not a single constituency in which more Labour voters voted leave than remain. Perhaps you should read more carefully what was typed before hurling your insults around.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 11:42 AM

A report on the BBC website suggests that up to 40,000 jobs could be lost in Northern Ireland if a no-deal Brexit were to occur.

This information is based on analysis from Stormonts Department for the Economy. That is a government department, not anyone who our Brexiteers could describe as tree-hugging leftards or any other such offensive name.

Will any of our Brexiteers have the courage to respond ....... I doubt it.

Could someone please link to the webpage.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 03:36 AM

"Did it impact his speeches or prodigious literary output?"
Witten by somebody else and not particularly well delivered


Yet he was awarded the Nobel prize for literature in 1953. I suspect the Nobel Committee know a little more about his standing than an exile that snipes at blighty nearly every opportunity. I am also absolutely certain he was not guilty of plagiarism so wrong again!

It is a matter of public record that .. When demand was high for his newspaper and magazine articles, Churchill employed a ghostwriter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 03:02 AM

Once again. Whether you're in the progressive south or in Labour's northern heartlands, the fact remains that there wasn't a single constituency anywhere in which Labour voters had a majority supporting leave.

Sweeping statements backed by zero evidence is just distracting white noise. Is it whimsy again, or simply an inability to find and construct supporting links? Repeating lies does not make them true

Whereas my easily found and simply constructed link utterly rejects your false assertions


https://fullfact.org/online/referendum-results-by-constituency/


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 02:39 AM

"Did it impact his speeches or prodigious literary output?"
Witten by somebody else and not particularly well delivered
A man in the right place at the right time - no more
Churchill's one outstanding quality was that he opposed the rise of fascism while all his Tory colleagues were happy to look the other way
He was happy to turn out the troops against striking miners - too near home to ignore

Anybody who ignores the latest Trump Circus regarding the new Ambassador and his attacks on the British elected leadership and hasn't been alerted to the dangers of placing the fortunes of Brexit Britain in the hands of the U.S. has to be regarded a Quisling
If I were in any way a nationalist or even a patriot I would regard it a personal insult
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 02:20 AM

No, what I am saying, and what you are having problems understanding, is that once the UK has control over our fishing grounds, our fishing fleet will see that expansion is worthwhile because the UK can decide who has access to those fishing grounds

As I say fairly often, I like to make a statement, respond, then leave it, so I will not be continuing this subtopic beyond this post. But, I understand that perfectly well, Nigel. The points I raised were that whether you can see opportunities long term or not, such expansion costs money and that has to come from somewhere. Also, unlike many businesses that can grow 1 or 2 percent at a time, the nature of shipping and access to fishing areas make that very much more granular: you have say 3 ships and want to expand to 4: you have to cost-justify a 25% expansion, or not expand. The established traders do not have to build up additional resources and so can bid more for a given level of profit. Now, some of the biggest UK businesses may be able to justify the gamble of investing but then not winning the business. I don't think small ones can.

Then the second point is that while the UK (government) can decide who gets access, there is no reason to believe the UK fishermen will get any sort of preferential treatment: indeed it would not be hard to make the case that the focus should be income to the UK as a whole, not any one specific sector, and therefore it would be wrong to give them such preferential treatment. So any fishermen who voted leave on the grounds it would protect their industry may find it does not work out like that at a personal level.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 08:56 PM

Once again. Whether you're in the progressive south or in Labour's northern heartlands, the fact remains that there wasn't a single constituency anywhere in which Labour voters had a majority supporting leave.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 08:18 PM

Leavers believe that the UK, as a nation, is finished,

Sorry, that should be "Remainers believe"


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 08:15 PM

That (Raggytash) is the basis of the whole argument. Leavers believe that the UK, as a nation, is finished, and can never be a worthwhile, separate, sovereign, nation,
Brexiteers believe that the UK is capable of functioning outside of the control of the EU.

You have obviously already chosen your side of the argument in complete capitulation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 07:54 PM

Nigel,

I live in what used to be a decent fishing town. The companies who had quotas sold them off to the highest bidder. That that bidder could local, English, British made not the slightest difference to them.

The small number of, mainly men, were laid off, not that they had contracts, they were 'sparehands' laid off after every trip not knowing if they would get on a ship next time it left port.

Your rose colour spectacles will not alter that situation one iota.

Despite some people still holding quotas there is not one trawler that has sailed from this port and hasn't been for 20 years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 07:36 PM

For crying out loud, he is the epitome of the gutter press, except he is not the press, he deals in 'sound bites'on a blog.

That is all he is, a blogger.

There is no depth, no analysis or any credence to his output.

You choose to quote him because he panders to your warped opinion of politics ......... no depth, no analysis and certainly no credence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 07:31 PM

So what you are saying is the UK fishing sector should invest in building up the fleet while it has no income, and will have no guarantee of success in winning a licence in future, and when the time comes to bid, have higher overheads to do with repaying for this new fleet whereas the Spanish (for example) have already covered a substantial part of those debts.

No, what I am saying, and what you are having problems understanding, is that once the UK has control over our fishing grounds, our fishing fleet will see that expansion is worthwhile because the UK can decide who has access to those fishing grounds. It is not a matter of who will "win a license". The UK , as a (once again) sovereign nation, can decide to issue fishing licences for the benefit of UK fishermen.

My previous comment made clear that, in the short term, it might be better to sell 'short term' leases to other countries, while the UK builds up its fishing fleet once more.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 04:19 PM

Should be locked away and the key thrown away if he ever gets behind a wheel again - bloody piss artist

But he is still followed by very many MPs and frequently is first with the news politically. When are you going to tire of shooting the messenger rather than the message?

As I recall Winston Churchill was very near a raging alcoholic by the standards of today. Did it impact his speeches or prodigious literary output?
Churchill is held in high esteem for his accomplishments, not how many he could drink under the table.
Do you understand the difference yet?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 02:56 PM

"and err...driven."
So he should be with all those convictions for drunk driving
Should be locked away and the key thrown away if he ever gets behind a wheel again - bloody piss artist
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 02:18 PM

It is possible that come the next election either a Brexit deal has been agreed or we have left with no deal. In which case cross examining potential candidates on what they wanted to do abut leaving, while ignoring all the other issue would be utterly pointless.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 01:58 PM

Must be time to point out again how constituencies voted in the brexit referendum. (and before the usual suspects start their nonsense, the figures below are reasonably accurate assessments. The exact figures are largely irrelevant, the percentages speak for themselves)

In the 2016 EU referendum, 148 Labour constituencies voted to leave, 84 to remain. 247 Conservative constituencies voted to leave, 80 to remain. Best estimates are that 249 Conservative constituencies probably voted to leave, and 81 to remain (based on the 2015 general election seat distribution). This clearly shows that had MPs really represented their constituents Brexit would have occurred long,long ago.

It behoves MPs of both major parties to pay attention to these figures should an election be in the offing. Constituency parties will want very clear statements from their prospective MPs concerning their Brexit position before being selected. Imposing/inflicting candidates just ain't gonna work this next time around for either side of the divide.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 01:55 PM

re that 'guido fawkes' bloke. i saw him on question time and was surprised to see how young he is. and dim. and err...driven.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 01:50 PM

All student immigration is good. It is a measure of the strength of the UK higher education sector.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 01:37 PM

. It would probably be worth leasing some of the licences to (say) Spain for a while anyway while the UK fishing fleet gears up

So what you are saying is the UK fishing sector should invest in building up the fleet while it has no income, and will have no guarantee of success in winning a licence in future, and when the time comes to bid, have higher overheads to do with repaying for this new fleet whereas the Spanish (for example) have already covered a substantial part of those debts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 12:00 PM

A new poll by ComRes for the Telegraph today shows that in the event Boris is elected leader of the Conservative Party, the party leads Labour by seven points and would win a 40 seat majority in an election. Under Hunt, the two parties are projected to both be tied on 26% with Labour ahead on seats and the Brexit Party winning 23. Under Boris, the Brexit Party win 0…

We shall see! Recent polls have been flummoxed by the fickle finger of fate, when tested in the ballot box.

Meanwhile back to Labour and the travails of compo corbyn the cabbage patch king: Brought from the pen of truth GUIDO FAWKES
Lifelong Eurosceptic Jeremy Corbyn has finally relented to immense pressure within his party to throw his support fully behind a second referendum and Remaining in the EU. The writing was on the wall for his personal Brexit resistance after Len McCluskey folded last night. One final roll of the dice to try to save his own skin…

Labour say that the Shadow Cabinet has finally agreed on a “settled Brexit position” to:

    “challenge whoever emerges as the leader of the Conservative Party to have the confidence to put their deal to the people in a referendum, with remain on the ballot, in which Labour would campaign for remain.”

Whether this leads to any material change in Corbyn’s day-to-day approach to Brexit remains to be seen…

What they still haven’t clarified is what their policy would be if they actually ended up in Government trying to negotiate Brexit themselves. The Unions’ position is that Labour’s stance in that case would depend on the deal negotiated. Would be strange for them to negotiate a deal and then immediately campaign against it…

They are still the in out hokey cokey party,but increasingly driven by their union paymasters and thus have abandoned vast swathes of their electorate. I suspect come election time there will be carnage.
You could not make it up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 11:38 AM

”We have control over immigration from outside the EU, but not from within, which is the comment I made.”

And you’re just making this stuff up, presumably to try to cover up your embarrassment at having been so dopey as to fall for the BrexShit-Bullshit. You really do need to widen your reading, and stop being taken in by the nonsense spouted by the fascist Farage and his cohorts.

From the ONS report, ‘Migration Statistics Quarterly Report May 2019’ - I tried to link to it but the link didn’t work...

”2. Main points

Long-term international net migration, immigration and emigration figures have remained broadly stable since the end of 2016.

Long-term international net migration data show that migrants continued to add to the UK population as an estimated 258,000 more people moved to the UK with an intention to stay 12 months or more than left in the year ending December 2018. Over the year, 602,000 people moved to the UK (immigration) and 343,000 people left the UK (emigration).

EU long-term immigration has fallen since 2016 and is at its lowest since 2013. Non-EU long-term immigration has gradually increased over the last five years to similar levels seen in 2011.

Since 2016, overall long-term immigration to the UK for work has continued to decrease and looking at all available data sources, this has mainly been due to the fall in EU immigration to the UK for work. For non-EU citizens, since 2015, work-related immigration to the UK has remained broadly stable, however, the number of skilled work visas issued has been increasing.

As seen in all available sources, non-EU student immigration has recently risen, after remaining broadly stable between 2013 and 2017. Most non-EU citizens arriving in the UK to study went to university and the number of sponsored applications for universities in the year ending March 2019 was the highest level on record.

The UK granted asylum, alternative forms of leave, or resettlement to 17,304 people in the year ending March 2019, an increase on the previous year. Grants of protection were at their highest number since 2003.”


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 11:32 AM

We can stop anyone entering the UK if there is just cause BWM. But, yes, aside from that, anyone wishing to remain here has to be seen to be self supporting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 10:52 AM

But I don't get this "it would be under the control of the UK, not the EU". What the hell difference does it make. The only difference is that EU politicians are rather more inclined to listen to what people who actually know about the issue than UK ones, who tend to do only what makes them popular, not what is right. Hence if UK politicians are making decisions on fishing quotas, we will end up with empty seas.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 10:45 AM

Strictly speaking, the EU rules regarding free movement of people say that we can’t prevent EU citizens from entering the UK, but we can prevent them from remaining - if they are not housed, employed, and self-sufficient within three months, we can send them home.

Unfortunately, successive governments, both Tory and Labour, have neglected to enact that control. That’s the fault of the UK, Sweet FA to do with the EU.

And, of course, free movement works both ways - at least as many U.K. citizens have moved to other EU member-states as vice-versa.

And the UK fishing industry - the large-scale part that was based on the Humber ports and which accounted for the vast majority of fish landed in the U.K. ‘back then’ has gone for ever - it will not come back, no matter whether we Leave, or (please God, let it be so!) Remain.

So your pipe-dream of a re-juvenated, buoyant fishing industry (see what I did there?) is just that - a pipe-dream. Dream on. The piddly-little boats will carry on, but the big boys, the deep-sea fleet that made all the big money, is gone for ever.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 09:57 AM

Companies are in the business of making profits, not helping the consumer.

The fisheries thing makes no difference whatsoever to our overall economy. It is, if you'll excuse the pun, a red herring.

We do have control over immigration from the EU and always have had. You fell for that lie and keep repeating it. We can and always have been able to stop anyone from entering the country. The fact that our own government chose not to apply the controls has nothing to do with the EU.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 09:35 AM

What is often overlooked is that 'control of the UK fisheries' means the UK government has a free hand in deciding who gets what rights. It is quite an assumption that the rights will be sold to UK fisheries if the Spanish or whoever are offering the UK government more money for the rights than UK fishing companies.

Yes, but it would be under the control of UK, not of EU. It would probably be worth leasing some of the licences to (say) Spain for a while anyway while the UK fishing fleet gears up to make the most of our waters being back under our control.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 09:31 AM

1. Prices will only decrease if any savings are passed on to the consumer. Which they will not be.
2. Yes, you can have that one. It may benefit that massive section of our economy, the fishing industry.
3. We have control of immigration anyway.


1, That works on the assumption that wholesalers/retailers will profiteer, and that the public won't notice and take their custom elsewhere.
2, O.k. so that's one accepted, maybe we'll stop having comments that nobody ever gives details of benefits from Brexit
3, We have control over immigration from outside the EU, but not from within, which is the comment I made.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 09:23 AM

Here is all you need to know about James Bartholomew.
A BIT MORE HERE
Read and disgust
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 06:49 AM

What is often overlooked is that 'control of the UK fisheries' means the UK government has a free hand in deciding who gets what rights. It is quite an assumption that the rights will be sold to UK fisheries if the Spanish or whoever are offering the UK government more money for the rights than UK fishing companies.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 06:37 AM

More arse-wipe fodder. The author of that piece was a brexit party candidate in the European elections. Here is all you need to know about James Bartholomew.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 06:06 AM

From a BrexShit-pushing ‘newspaper’ owned by the billionaire, tax-dodging, BrexShit-supporting Barclay Brothers.

You really are a complete, brainwashed sucker aren’t you?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 04:23 AM

Read and Ponder!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/21/the-eu-has-destroyed-some-of-our-most-prosperous-industries---an/


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 04:03 AM

And before that the north sea herring. British fishermen have a history of fishing out their children's futures for a quick buck.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 03:46 AM

And before Nigs gets around to nitpicking - the exclamation mark after ‘serious’ in my previous post was a typo. Bloody iPad keyboard.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 03:44 AM

The fleets in Grimsby and Hull - the serious! large-scale part of the UK fishing industry - were killed by greedy owners, over-fishing of our own waters, and the Icelandic Cod Wars.

Nothing whatsoever to do with the EU.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 03:41 AM

And the fishing bit is a disaster. You take the EU controls off and the British fishermen will fish out the waters within a decade.

The EU fisheries policy is hardly a masterpiece of conservation. It would be a struggle to be any worse when we take back controlof our waters.
https://our.fish/press/north-sea-cod-struggling/

I saw more trawlers in Bearhaven yesterday than I would be able to see in Grimsby. Even the chippy on the docks in Grimsby now uses frozen fish.
https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/grimsby-news/what-could-happen-grimsbys-fishing-1343767


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 03:14 AM

And the fishing bit is a disaster. You take the EU controls off and the British fishermen will fish out the waters within a decade.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 03:10 AM

Nigel.

1. Prices will only decrease if any savings are passed on to the consumer. Which they will not be.
2. Yes, you can have that one. It may benefit that massive section of our economy, the fishing industry.
3. We have control of immigration anyway.

So the three main benefits you quote are unlikely, negligible and untrue. Little wonder they are dismissed. But you still keep rolling them out


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 03:08 AM

Nigel, the food which comes from non-EU countries is at present mostly covered by EU trade agreements, such as LDC agreements. So there will be no cheaper food.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 02:26 AM

On another thread Ians wrote
Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Leadership Contest
From: Iains - PM
Date: 08 Jul 19 - 03:11 PM

DMcG IT seems compo corbyn has been dragged off the fence by his union paymasters. Is that how democracy works for labour? The biggest checquebook dictates policy? Oh Dear!


I think it better addressed here.

It would be much more accurate to say it was the support of the 'Unite' union in particular that allowed Corbyn to stay 'on the fence'. For a long time most unions and most of the members have thought the party should take a stronger remain stance, but at least initially it made sense to recognise that after we leave (or not), we still all have to live on the same island and talk to each other, which led to a more complex and ambiguous stance. However, few people still think that is the best approach, and now believe that its time is over.

As for setting policy, the new position - if it happens - is still in line with the policy set last year, because it was a quite complex set of statements. Nothing unusual in that - there is almost always a stage like this where a general statement needs to be refined into a more precise position and ultimately to down to specific actions. It is essentially the same problem as taking a generic 'Leave means Leave' and working out what exactly that means for the security policy, for instance.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Jul 19 - 03:42 PM

BrexShitters prefer to keep their perceptions of these real, tangible benefits secret - they've been asked innumerable times in this thread,

Some details have been given many times, but always dismissed by those who asked for the details. So it becomes somewhat pointless to try again, however:
Reduced food prices for food bought from around the world, where we currently have EU imposed tariffs designed to protect the farming communities on mainland Europe
Control of our own fishing waters, rather than allowing the EU to decide on fishing quotas.
The ability to control the number of migrants coming from the EU.
Those are three of the benefits mentioned many times, but doubtless they will be ignored again.

As for So tell us. No wishy-washy nonsense such as ‘Take are cuntry back’,, that phrase is one which you consistently use, but which I haven't seen used by any of the Brexit supporters here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 08 Jul 19 - 03:12 PM

What she was ever doing in the Labour party I have no idea, not just a supporter of brexit but of foxhunting too. Probably hanging for all I know.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Jul 19 - 10:25 AM

Kare Hoey to stand down at next election

Not surprising, given the strength of Remain in her constituency, so she looked likely to lose very badly if she tried again


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