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Heckling at Folk Clubs

GUEST,Jim Knowledge 30 Jan 20 - 07:01 AM
The Sandman 29 Jan 20 - 03:47 PM
John MacKenzie 29 Jan 20 - 01:54 PM
GUEST 26 Oct 18 - 03:28 PM
Vic Smith 26 Oct 18 - 03:10 PM
GUEST,kenny 26 Oct 18 - 12:58 PM
Shug Hanlan 26 Oct 18 - 12:00 PM
Vic Smith 26 Oct 18 - 09:45 AM
GUEST 26 Oct 18 - 09:41 AM
GUEST,Some bloke 25 Oct 18 - 03:18 PM
GUEST 25 Oct 18 - 01:01 PM
Shug Hanlan 25 Oct 18 - 10:28 AM
GUEST,jim bainbridge 25 Oct 18 - 10:14 AM
Jim Carroll 25 Oct 18 - 05:37 AM
GUEST 25 Oct 18 - 05:34 AM
Jim Carroll 25 Oct 18 - 04:46 AM
GUEST,Some bloke 25 Oct 18 - 04:12 AM
Tattie Bogle 24 Oct 18 - 06:35 PM
Tattie Bogle 24 Oct 18 - 06:35 PM
GUEST 24 Oct 18 - 03:19 PM
Jim Carroll 24 Oct 18 - 12:20 PM
GUEST,jim bainbridge 24 Oct 18 - 12:04 PM
Jim Carroll 24 Oct 18 - 11:30 AM
GUEST,guitaress 24 Oct 18 - 06:40 AM
FreddyHeadey 24 Oct 18 - 04:49 AM
FreddyHeadey 24 Oct 18 - 04:47 AM
Jeri 23 Oct 18 - 07:43 PM
Jim Carroll 23 Oct 18 - 06:17 PM
GUEST,Roger 23 Oct 18 - 02:53 PM
GUEST,Nemesis 23 Oct 18 - 02:50 PM
Jim Carroll 23 Oct 18 - 02:43 PM
GUEST,jim bainbridge 23 Oct 18 - 02:05 PM
Jim Carroll 23 Oct 18 - 12:22 PM
Jim Carroll 23 Oct 18 - 11:31 AM
GUEST,jim bainbridge 23 Oct 18 - 10:25 AM
Jim Carroll 23 Oct 18 - 06:17 AM
Jim Carroll 23 Oct 18 - 06:01 AM
The Sandman 23 Oct 18 - 04:17 AM
The Sandman 22 Oct 18 - 03:13 PM
GUEST,jim bainbridge 22 Oct 18 - 02:38 PM
The Sandman 22 Oct 18 - 11:41 AM
Jim Carroll 22 Oct 18 - 11:29 AM
GUEST,jim bainbridge 22 Oct 18 - 09:26 AM
The Sandman 22 Oct 18 - 04:08 AM
GUEST,Nick Dow 22 Oct 18 - 03:20 AM
GUEST,jim bainbridge 21 Oct 18 - 02:21 PM
John MacKenzie 21 Oct 18 - 04:22 AM
The Sandman 20 Oct 18 - 04:48 PM
The Sandman 20 Oct 18 - 04:43 PM
John MacKenzie 19 Oct 18 - 09:29 AM
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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 07:01 AM

I `ad one of them academics from Durham Uni. in my cab the other day. `e knew all about us bands down in "The Smoke" and the South East. `e was writing `is thesis about audience behaviour in theatres and clubs and the "psyche" that lies be`ind it. (`ark at `im!)
`e said, `ere Jim, you and your band `ave been at it for some considerable time. What`s your experience of audiences?"
I said, "I can only remember one occasion when a club we were doing in Sussex was taken over that night by a rugby team that `ad just won it`s division. They were a most un-ruly mob, `igh on "`arvey`s Best Bitter". The agent faxed me to see `ow we got on."
`e said, "That was thoughtful of `im."
I said,"I told `im. I replied "Audience with us all the way. We shook `em off at the station!!""


Whaddam I Like??


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Jan 20 - 03:47 PM

yes they were amusing redd used to do this cockney skit about no hasmpsteads in the north and south


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Jan 20 - 01:54 PM

Re the thump a heckler incident Dick mentioned in passing. I was present on two occasions when bodily contact was made, at two different folk clubs, on neither occasion was anybody actually struck, but there was a whiff of more than fear in the air, from the person on the receiving end of the threat. The first was in The Student Prince, in it's second home in Wardour Street, and it was Martin Windsor threatening some chap with defenestration, and the second was in Les Cousins at an all nighter, when a person who would not shut up, was threatened with a bashing from the old (heavy) milk churn lid, that sat on the edges of the stage, and did duty as an ashtray. The annoyed person on that occasion, was Redd Sullivan, so they really were a double act ;)


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Oct 18 - 03:28 PM

One of the great responders to heckling was Tony Capstick.
I well remember a night at Poynton folk club. (If anyone can't remember, it used to have regular audiences of about 300 people).
A smartarse bawled out 'ere Capstick, can yer open yer gob any wider'.
Without a pause for breath, Tony replied 'open yours a bit wider mate, and I'll park me van in it.'
Pure artistry.
Roger


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: Vic Smith
Date: 26 Oct 18 - 03:10 PM

The Glasgow Empire - where no turn is left unstoned.


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 26 Oct 18 - 12:58 PM

I also have heard both of those heckling stories above, but I think Vic, - no doubt out of decency - omitted one word, very commonly used in Glasgow, before "talent". :)


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: Shug Hanlan
Date: 26 Oct 18 - 12:00 PM

Since we're in The Glasgow Empire might as well recount the famed audience response to Bernie Winters following his brother Mike onstage.

"Christ, there's two of them."


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: Vic Smith
Date: 26 Oct 18 - 09:45 AM

Above GUEST was Vic Smith posting from a different machine,


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Oct 18 - 09:41 AM

If you don't mind a bit of thread drift away from folk clubs, then this is my favourite heckling story as told by Roy Castle to Joby Blanchard who told it to me:-

Back in the latter days of Variety Theatre tours, a line-up of variety acts would do week-long tours in each of prominent provincial theatres. The most dreaded one was the Glasgow Empire where the savage wit of the hecklers was notorious. The word passed round that if you really put everything into it on the Monday and Tuesday then you might get through the rest of the week. Roy was top of the bill and on the Monday was anxiously waiting in the wings to see how the support acts were being received - not good! All the droll Glaswegians seemed to be there that night and the majority of laughs and applause seemed to come from audience interjections rather from what was happening on the stage. Roy thought he would deal with it by going through his routines at 100 miles an hour leaving no space for the hecklers and that's what he did. A quickfire set of gags, straight into a song - a tap dance routine - another song - some more quick gags (it was going well) - a trumpet solo with some humour built into it then as he gasped for breath after playing the trumpet. a loud voice came from the back of the theatre -

Hi Roy! Is there nae end tae yir talent!


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: GUEST,Some bloke
Date: 25 Oct 18 - 03:18 PM

Jim. I related what he said.

Donít reinforce your odd take on the subject by saying something didnít happen when you werenít there.

The subject is heckling in folk clubs. I gave a first hand account of being heckled from the stage in regard to my own performance. An example of the subject in hand and it isnít good to then read your nonsense.

For everyone else, MacColl has been a musical hero of mine since playing my much older brotherís ďThe World of Ewan MacColl and Peggy Seeger, Songs from the Radio Ballads Vol 2Ē when I was approx ten years old. To this day, I reckon Iím word perfect in recalling the words of every song. Obviously I was crushed to then as a 22 year old singer to have my hero be so ignorant.

Heís still a hero as the twentieth century sage, just (as many attest) he wasnít a very nice person. Earlier, Iíd interviewed him for a syndicated hospital radio folk show I used to present (87 hospitals broadcast it) and Peggy kept intervening to save the interview then. I assume he was having a bad day, but as ever, donít meet your heros.


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Oct 18 - 01:01 PM

Saw Billy Connolly, a master of putting down hecklers, in Dublin when he first broke there. Times were, as they say, somewhat tense, and on that first visit some IRA supporting twat yelled out: 'IRA!' or something similarly asinine. Connolly paused briefly and you could see he wasn't quite sure how to proceed, then obviously thought: fuck it and retorted: 'Keep talking pal, the bouncers will find you quicker.' Which brought the house down and from that point he could do no wrong for an audience who were already enamoured of him.


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: Shug Hanlan
Date: 25 Oct 18 - 10:28 AM

Or..as Connolly himself might have said,

"Will you c***'s shut the f*** up and let me get on wae it?"


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 25 Oct 18 - 10:14 AM

Jim, you will be amazed that I totally agree with you- have repeatedly said this thread should get back to its purpose.

It's an interesting subject- sometimes heckling is offensive, but my experience of it was never that- the Elliotts of Birtley were masters of pointed heckling which was great fun.

I do not want to get into ANOTHER argument about what is essentially a subjective view, so if you want carry it on, please do it without me


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Oct 18 - 05:37 AM

"Could the discussion return to it's original subject now please ?"
I agree entirely - hopefully without the heckling
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Oct 18 - 05:34 AM

"To sing songs in your own accent was the advice MacColl gave to all singers, amature or professional - it's always made sense to me"
Agreed, and it's good advice, but MacColl should have done it in private, not from the stage, which is bound to be humiliating for any singer - [ if that's what happened, and I have no reason to doubt it].
Could the discussion return to it's original subject now please ?


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Oct 18 - 04:46 AM

"amateurs "
MacColl never distinguished between "amateurs" and professionals - there were few of the latter in the revival - that was its strength
To sing songs in your own accent was the advice MacColl gave to all singers, amature or professional - it's always made sense to me
Singing songs in a "cod" accent" is, as far as I am concerned, taking the piss, both out of the songs and the people the singer is sending up
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: GUEST,Some bloke
Date: 25 Oct 18 - 04:12 AM

It might be a good time to mention that once, when having a floor spot before MacColl and Seeger came on, I sang two traditional songs, one American (Cecil Sharp reckoned it was American anyway) and a song from the other end of the country.

MacColl started their set by pointing out that amateurs would do well to stick to indigenous songs from their communities.

Then sang a Scottish song in a cod accent.

Heckling would have been superfluous.


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 24 Oct 18 - 06:35 PM

FROM!


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 24 Oct 18 - 06:35 PM

PUERILE: form the Latin Puer - young person. I'm outa here, another thread gone AWOL.


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Oct 18 - 03:19 PM

Mr Carroll,
One mans bickering and another mans making a point are two different things.
You are correct not to expect an apology.
I was just making a point.
Roger


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Oct 18 - 12:20 PM

"Check back & you'll see I deliberately tried to keep Mr Carroll out of this- "
The Only reason Bob Davenport came up is that his behaviour offers an excellent example of the subject of this thread - when I produced it I was met with personal abuse - end of story
We've been asked to desist from this Jim - I suggest you heed that request
Neither of us have any authority to keep anybody out of discussions on this forum
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 24 Oct 18 - 12:04 PM

Check back & you'll see I deliberately tried to keep Mr Carroll out of this-
I didn't bring up the EM/BD discussion- I pointedly avoided giving the opportunity, as I knew it was just what the pillock has been waiting for, to go over this now legendary event for the 40th time!
in fact am sick to the teeth of it- I even suggested on 22 October that we 'get back to the thread.
It's an interesting subject but count me out now- I hope I've had some interesting things to say.....


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Oct 18 - 11:30 AM

"Including Ewan McColl songs! "
MacColl always said his songs weren't traditional - or even 'folk' - none of the clubs he was involved in ever described themselves as such
The scene collapsed when it was possible to spend a night at a folk club without hearing a folk song and the term became meaningless
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: GUEST,guitaress
Date: 24 Oct 18 - 06:40 AM

I began performing in folk clubs in around 1965. The fight between "contemporary" and "traditional" was on from the start! Never took much notice of it myself. Much of the alleged "traditional" songs were were recently penned anyway. Including Ewan McColl songs! Anyway moving on to the subject in hand and "Heckling"

Heckling is an art form. It can be fun and it can be a nightmare it depends on whether it is amusing, controlled, not obtrusive and not offensive. The Heckler needs to know just when to shut the fuck up. Generally they do not. Billy hated hecklers. I know I toured with the guy.


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 24 Oct 18 - 04:49 AM

;)


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 24 Oct 18 - 04:47 AM

What does the artist do when hecklers start heckling each other and stopping the rest of the audience from reading hearing what they came to listen to?


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Oct 18 - 07:43 PM

I vote for desisting from peurile bickering. Somehow discussions end up being about the people in the thread instead of the subject. Please stop it. If you have to leave for a while, leave for a while.


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Oct 18 - 06:17 PM

May I suggest that you read what has been posted
I didn't "bicker" - I posted an opinion
I would have liked an apology for your accusation, but I doubt if one is forthcoming
I'm getting more than a little pissed off with the way people fling out uncorroborated accusations
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: GUEST,Roger
Date: 23 Oct 18 - 02:53 PM

May I suggest that Mr Carroll and Mr Bainbridge desist from this peurile bickering and challenge each other to a duel.
Keyboards at dawn perhaps.
And yes I do know what the word peurile means.
What was an interesting and memory boosting thread for me has now just become a battle between egos.
Roger.


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: GUEST,Nemesis
Date: 23 Oct 18 - 02:50 PM

For the person who doesn't know the differencg between bad manners and heckling

heckle
/'h?k(?)l/
verb
gerund or present participle: heckling
1.
interrupt (a public speaker) with derisive or aggressive comments or abuse.
"he was booed and heckled when he tried to address the demonstrators"
synonyms:
jeer, taunt, jibe at, shout down, shout at, boo, hiss, disrupt, interrupt, harass; shout catcalls at; barrack; informalgive someone a hard time
"he was booed and heckled when he tried to address the demonstrators"


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Oct 18 - 02:43 PM

I have done neither - I have said what know to be true of both of them because of personal experience
I have never known MacColl slag a fellow performer off in public as I described Bob having done to a young woman singer making an effort to explain her songs toa non-Irish-speaking audience
That you are not interested in behavior such as that is your own choice - you nbeed to stay away from threads like this one
I asked if you believed I made it up - apparently you don't which says all that needs to be said
I do hope your "vitriolic" outpourings don't get this worthwhile thread closed
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 23 Oct 18 - 02:05 PM

You have a campaign for many years which is that Ewan Mac Coll was some kind of saviour of the tradition and Bob D is the opposite.
My opinion is that both have/had a lot to offer I am not interested in your vitriolic crap about Bob.
I made an effort to avoid you getting involved in this thread but it didn't work, you wangled your warped prejudices into it despite that- the thread title was just a further opportunity to ramble on about this prejudice- THAT'S WHY YOU ARE A PAIN IN THE ARSE - OK?


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Oct 18 - 12:22 PM

Both of you
It is a little difficult understanding what you have difficulty with here
The subject is heckling at folk clubs - I gave an example
What exactly to you find wrong with that
Do you think I'm making it up or do you think there are some people exempt from criticism ?
We really have been here before - last time I named names, this time I didn't
What on earth can be "pai in the arse" about that ?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Oct 18 - 11:31 AM

What a pair of hypocrites
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 23 Oct 18 - 10:25 AM

just leave him to it Dick, what a pain in the arse


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Oct 18 - 06:17 AM

Incidentally, I carefully avoided naming the culprit
It took a couple of acolytes to do that - well done lads
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Oct 18 - 06:01 AM

"V" and someone is excusing the bad behaviour of a folki superstar because he ia a superstar
Why should these louts be untouchable ?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Oct 18 - 04:17 AM

Bob Davenport he seems to get the blame for eveything,


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Oct 18 - 03:13 PM

yes indeed


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 22 Oct 18 - 02:38 PM

he's off again


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Oct 18 - 11:41 AM

BOB DAVENPORT, no this was someone else entirely,


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Oct 18 - 11:29 AM

One of the most ill-mannered examples of heckling I have ever encountered was when two Irish women singers were booked to perform at a West End of London Club
One of the singers, an Irish-speaker from The Aran Islands, began by giving a short explanation of her Irish-language song
We were, unfortunately, sitting two rows in front of a 'veteran' folkie, who proceeded to talk, loudly and very pointedly, over her introduction.
When it happened again on another song, my partner turned around and asked him to stop, to which he replied, "I came here to listen to singing, not talking - I thought we'd got rid of all that shit in the '60s"
Someone came up to Pat in the interval and said, "I'm glad somebody had the courage to do that"
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 22 Oct 18 - 09:26 AM

Can tell you it wasn't Bob Davenport, Dick- a much-discussed incident in the Assembly Rooms but he didn't go that far!!- nufsed?
   Terry was a good pal of mine, but sadly died quite a few years ago- saw him most recently at the King & Queen- 10 years plus.... yes he had some great songs!
   He came & stayed with us in Durham & we took him to the Miners' Gala- we went to the Cathedral for the blessing of the banners & the Dean's address was quite unsympathetic to the miners (early 70s- time of the two strikes the miners won!) & Terry was quite shocked by this.
   I told him of a previous Dean of Durham, who had been similarly critical in the 30s.
   The miners found him on Gala day & chucked him off Elvet bridge into the River Wear- now that's a form of extreme heckling, so back to the thread now!


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Oct 18 - 04:08 AM

I was told a story years ago about a contributor to this thread,it was probably a myth anyway, someone in the audience was makiung rude noises during this mans song, so said performer[ no names no pck drill] marched down the aisle and thumpred the offendor, it occurred somewhere in the home counties


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 22 Oct 18 - 03:20 AM

Terry Vosper!! There's a name from the past. Is he still around? He had some amazing songs.


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 02:21 PM

I remember you well, John- at Whitby of course--- how are things in Lairg! FC was a great club & all credit to Rod & Danny for setting it up & booking such as Maggie Barry, Fred Jordan & the Stewarts- in fact I had my first wedding night hooly in the clubroom 25 July 1970.

In the mid sixties there were also sessions in the bar on Saturday night- I first met Terry Vosper there- great character. Also often a Sunday noon in the clubroom- huddled round the potbelly stove in winter & in summer continuing on the adjacent green with quart bottles of Courage (yuk) or saiing down to Hampton Court....

The Assembly Rooms was a big venue -first place I met Bob Davenport & the Rakes- heckling story there but won't repeat it- too dangerous!!
- still hear from regular Doug Dwyer- now settled in Bergerac... happy days...


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 21 Oct 18 - 04:22 AM

It was the Assembly Rooms Dick.


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Oct 18 - 04:48 PM

i do rember a oneliner that i heard once, directed to a heckler "when they circumsised you, !they threw away the wrong bit¨"


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Oct 18 - 04:43 PM

John Mackenzie,, I remember the fighting cocks at kingston very well was a guest performer there many times, from about 1974 onwards, i dont remember you or were you resident at the surbiton club run by derek serjeant?
In my opinion heckling is an intrusion. i think performers should be allowed to build up a rapport with an audience without attention seekers from an audience trying to disrupt proceedings


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Subject: RE: Heckling at Folk Clubs
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Oct 18 - 09:29 AM

I have occasionally been known to heckle, but only peeps I know. Years ago when I was a resident performer at a club in Kingston upon Thames, I could always rely on one particular chap (Ian somebody?) to try winding me up from the floor. Once and only once I managed to shut him up, when he shouted out, "Is that your mouth, or are you running it in for an idiot" Where it came from I don't know, but I immediately responded, "Yes, when do you want it?". Well that sort of floored him, and he bought me a drink at the interval, and admitted defeat. I really enjoyed that drink.


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