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Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4

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Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 5 (65)
Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 3 (135) (closed)
Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 2 (129) (closed)
Origins: James Madison Carpenter & Child Ballads (132) (closed)
James Madison Carpenter shanties (38)
Sir Patrick Spens in Madison Carpenter (6)
Help: James Madison Carpenter (6)


Richie 17 Jul 18 - 02:23 PM
Richie 17 Jul 18 - 06:43 PM
Richie 18 Jul 18 - 10:51 AM
Steve Gardham 18 Jul 18 - 05:13 PM
Steve Gardham 19 Jul 18 - 09:20 AM
Richie 19 Jul 18 - 10:00 AM
Richie 19 Jul 18 - 12:49 PM
Steve Gardham 19 Jul 18 - 01:09 PM
Richie 19 Jul 18 - 01:25 PM
Steve Gardham 19 Jul 18 - 02:13 PM
Richie 20 Jul 18 - 09:50 AM
Richie 20 Jul 18 - 01:56 PM
Steve Gardham 20 Jul 18 - 05:13 PM
Richie 20 Jul 18 - 05:51 PM
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Lighter 22 Jul 18 - 07:28 PM
Richie 22 Jul 18 - 08:36 PM
Richie 22 Jul 18 - 10:06 PM
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Richie 23 Jul 18 - 02:11 PM
Steve Gardham 23 Jul 18 - 03:57 PM
Richard Mellish 23 Jul 18 - 04:18 PM
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Subject: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 02:23 PM

Hi,

Thanks to everyone who has helped on the previous three threads. This is Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4 and we are starting on Carpenter versions of Lord Randal, Child 12, Roud 10. Here's an older version from Willie Mathieson who was also an informant for Grieg and Scottish School of Studies (1952 recording).

From: James Madison Carpenter Collection, JMC/1/5/1/Q, p. 08582
Listen here: http://www.tobarandualchais.co.uk/en/fullrecord/18167/4

Lord Ronald- sung by Willie Mathieson of Denhead, near Turriff, as learned about 1890 from George Cruickshank.

1 "Where have you been wandering Lord Ronald, my son?
Where have you been wandering, my jolly young man?"
"I've been a- hunting, mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the heart, an' I fain would lie doon."

2 "Have you got any supper, Lord Ronald, my son?
"Have you got any supper, my jolly young man?"
"O yes, I've had supper; mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the heart, an' I fain would lie doon."

3 "What had you for supper, Lord Ronald, my son?
What had you for supper, my jolly young man?"
"Black fishes wi spreckled bellies; mother mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the heart, an' I fain would lie doon."

4 "Wha gae ye the supper, Lord Ronald, my son?
Wha gae ye the supper, my jolly young man?"
"My girl an' my sweetheart; mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the heart, an' I fain would lie doon."

5 "I fear ye are poisoned, Lord Ronald, my son,
I fear ye are poisoned, my jolly young man,"
"O yes, I am poisoned; mother mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the heart, and I fain would lie doon.'

6 "Where got ye the fishes, Lord Ronald, my son?
Where got ye the fishes, my jollie young man?"
"In my father's black ditches; mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the heart, and I fain wad lie doon."

7 'What will ye leave to your father, Lord Ronald my son
What will ye leave to your father, my jolly young man?'
"My houses and land; mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the heart, and I fain wad lie doon."

8 'What will ye leave to your mother, Lord Ronald, my son?
What will ye leave to your mother, my jolly young man?"
My gold box and rings; mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the heart, and I fain would lie doon."

9 'What will ye leave to your brother, Lord Ronald, my son?
What will ye leave to your brother, my jolly young man?"
"My chest an' my clothing mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the heart, and I fain wad lie doon."

10. "What will ye leave to your sister, Lord Ronald, my son?
What will ye leave to your sister, my jolly young man?"
"My purses an' silver; mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the heart, and I fain would lie doon."

11 "What will ye leave to your sweetheart, Lord Ronald, my son?
What will ye leave to your sweetheart, my jolly young man?"
"A rope an' the halter, for to hang on yon tree,
An' a' that she'll get for the poisoning of me."


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 06:43 PM

Hi,

Here's a short version missing the "will" stanzas ("What will ye leave") by Bell Duncan. From James Madison Carpenter Collection, JMC/1/5/1/Q, p. 08574.

"Lord Ronald" sung by Miss Bell Duncan of Lambhill by Insch, Aberdeenshire about 1931.

1 "O Where hae ye been Lord Ronald, my son?
"O Where hae ye been, my gallant young man?"
"I've been a-courtin, mither, mak my bed soon,
For I'm weary wi' wanderin', an' fain wid lie doon."

2 "What gat ye for supper, Lord Ronald, my son?
What gat ye for supper, my gallant young man?"
"A dish o black fish, mither, mak my bed soon,
For I'm weary wi' wanderin', an' fain wid lie doon."

3. "Faur gat ye the fishes, Lord Ronald, my son?
Faur got ye the fishes, my gallant young man?"
"In her father's mossy ditches[1]; mither, mak my bed soon,
For I'm weary wi' wanderin', an' fain wid lie doon."

4. "I fear ye are poisoned, Lord Ronald, my son,
I fear ye are poisoned, my gallant young man."
"O yes, I am poisoned; mither mak my bed soon,
For I'm weary wi' wanderin', an' fain wid lie doon."
_______________

1. has "ditch" singular

* * * *

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 10:51 AM

Hi,

Child 12A is of mysterious origin and appears to be a composite of two versions (the refrain changes after stanza 5 and doesn't change back). Is there any more info about this MS that Macmath found? I've dated it 1808 but even this is a guess. Since it's found with other items dated 1710 that date has also been attached to Child A (Child dates this early 1800s). The attribution by Child is: "From a small manuscript volume lent me by Mr William Macmath, of Edinburgh, containing four pieces written in or about 1710 and this ballad in a later hand. Charles Mackie, August, 1808, is scratched upon the binding."

The other issue is the plot, in Child A, Lord Randal has gone hunting and there meets his sweetheart, an unlikely encounter. Walter Scott, who gives a version from his daughter (Child D), thinks the name should be "Lord Ronald" and many of the Carpenter versions use "Lord Ronald."

This next fragmented Carpenter version is only the ending with the "will" stanzas. The transcription is sketchy so I've added (in brackets) a few missing lines, which I assume were sung but not written down. There is no recording.

From: James Madison Carpenter Collection, JMC/1/2/2/K, p. 05616

    Lord Ronald- sung by Jean Barclay of Braefoot Cottage, Ythen Wells, collected about 1931.

"What'll ye leave to your father, Lord Ronald my son
What'll ye leave to your father, my handsome young man,"
"I'll leave my gray mare, mother mak my bed soon
[For I'm sick at the heart, and I fain would lie doon."]

"What'll ye leave to your mother, Lord Ronald my son,
[What'll ye leave to your mother, my handsome young man,"]
"I'll leave her my gowd watch, Mother mak my bed soon
[For I'm sick at the heart, and I fain would lie doon."]

What'll ye leave to your sister, Lord Ronald my son,
[What'll ye leave to your sister, my handsome young man,]
"I'll leave her my gowd ring, Mother mak my bed soon
[For I'm sick at the heart, and I fain would lie doon."]

What'll ye leave to your sweetheart, Lord Ronald my son
[What'll ye leave to your sweetheart, my handsome young man,]
I'll leave her arsenic and water, the thing she left me,
An' if that disna please her, she'll be hanged on a tree.

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 05:13 PM

The Macmath Collection at Kirkudbright would make a great project for publication. The only person I know who has researched in there is Ronnie Clark who published the Elizabeth Sinclair Ms. I suspect it would take several researchers. I don't know of anyone in that area with the time, the resources and the motivation. I suspect he sent any material that was relevant to Child but it would be useful to read his correspondence to know his opinions on various aspects.


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 19 Jul 18 - 09:20 AM

Re Macmath
There is a website re the MacMath Collection, but it appears to be devoted to locals performing some of the material. There is no evidence of serious research there which is a shame.


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 19 Jul 18 - 10:00 AM

Hi,

From: James Madison Carpenter Collection, JMC/1/11/163, Disc Side 157, 03:35

Young Rolland- sung by Douglas Homes of Bush Smithy, Auchteriess Scotland as learned from his grandmother Mrs. Homes

1 "O where hae ye been, young Rolland, my son?
O where hae ye been, my gallant young man?"
"O I've been a- hunting, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm weary, weary wanderin', and fain would lie doon."

2 "Have ye had any supper, Lord Rolland, my son?
"Have ye had any supper, my gallant young man?"
"O yes, I've had supper; mother, maka my bed soon,
For I'm weary, weary wanderin', and fain would lie doon."

3 "What had ye for supper, Lord Rolland, my son?
What had ye for supper, my gallant young man?"
"A plate of fresh fishes; mother make my bed soon,
For I'm weary, weary wanderin', and fain would lie doon."

4 "What kind were those fishes, Lord Rolland, my son?
What kind were those fishes, my gallant young man?"
"Black backs and grey bellies; mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm weary, weary wanderin', and fain would lie doon."

5 "I'm afraid ye've been poisoned, Lord Rolland, my son,
I'm afraid ye've been poisoned, my gallant young man,"
"O yes, I've been poisoned; mother make my bed soon,
For I'm weary, weary wanderin', and fain would lie doon."

6 "What leave ye tee your mother, Lord Rolland, my son?
What leave ye tee your mother, my gallant young man?"
My houses and lands; mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm weary, weary wanderin', and fain would lie doon."

7. "What leave ye tee your brother, Lord Rolland, my son?
What will ye leave to your brother, my gallant young man?"
"My horses and saddles, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm weary, weary wanderin', and fain would lie doon."

8 "What leave ye tee your sweetheart, Lord Rolland, my son?
What leave ye tee your sweetheart, my gallant young man?"
"A rope and the halter to hang on yon tree,
That's a' that she's worth for the poisonin' o' me."

* * * *

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 19 Jul 18 - 12:49 PM

Hi,

Looking at the roots of Child 12. Lord Randal was known in Verona, Italy in 1629 from a broadside "L'Avvelenato" (The Poisoned Man). Anyone know this where to find this broadside and a translation?

Here's the A version in d'Ancona, Poesia popolare italiana, 2nd ed., 1906, p. 124, taken down in the country near Pisa before 1906:

"Where supped you yestereve,
Dear son mine, noble and wise?"
   "Oh, I am dying,
    Ohime!"
"Where supped you yestereve,
My noble knight?"
"I was at my lady's
   I am sick at the heart,
   How sick am I!
   I was at my lady's,
   My life's at an end."

"What supper did she give you,
Dear son mine, noble and wise?"
"Oh, I am dying,
   Ohime!"
"What supper did she give you,
My gentle knight?'
"An eel that was roasted,
   Mother, dear mother;
   I am sick at the heart,
   How sick am I!
   An eel that was roasted,
   My life's at an end."

From: British Ballads and their Continental Relations- Gerould (ref. Gardham last thread). The ballad has not been known in France and the transmission is a mystery. Comments?


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 19 Jul 18 - 01:09 PM

Don't forget Gerould was writing in 1932. French versions may have come to light since then. As Gerould states, by that time only the Scandinavian and British ballads had been published in a systematic way.

Will send Crawfurd and Grieg Duncan shortly.

I haven't time to follow these up just now but in my foreign ballads index are the following relevant titles
Den Lillas Testamente (Swedish)
The Child's Last Wishes
Where have you been all the day (Irish)
O Dear Son of Mine (Welsh)
The Child's Last Will (Howitt)
The Child's Testament (Heywood)

Erich Seemann 'European Folk Ballads' 1967 pp80-89 should prove useful.


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 19 Jul 18 - 01:25 PM

Hi,

It appears that only three lines of the Italian "Lord Randall" ballad were part the of broadside in Verona in 1629 (it was a collection of lines from various songs). As sung by a blind Florentine, Camillo, called "the Bianchino":

'Dov' andastu iersera,["Where did you go last night]
Figliuol mio ricco, savio e gentile? [My son, rich, wise and kind?]
Dov' andastu iersera'?"[Where did you go last night?"]

It's prefaced by these four lines which reveal some of the story:

"lo vo' finire con questa d'un amante [I want to end this with a lover]
Tradito dall' amata.[Betrayed by the beloved.]
Oh che l'è si garbata [Oh that is it is the kind]
A cantarla in ischiera: [To be sung altogether:]

This is a version called L'Avvelenato (The Poisoned) of which another fragment was collected in 1656 and longer complete versions in the 1860s. One text of L'Avvelenato, called, "incatenatura of the Cieco Fiorentino," ("the song of the blind Florentine" after Camillo's fragment, above) was given in "Renaissance in Italy, Volume 4" by John Addington Symonds, 1888. It was collected in Como about 1867 by Dr. G. B. Bolza. A translation follows the Italian text:

The identity between the two is rendered still more striking by an analysis of the several Lombard versions. In that of Como, for example, the young man makes his will; and this is the last verse:

Cossa lasse alla vostra dama,
Figliuol mio caro, fiorito e gentil,
Cossa lasse alla vostra dama?
La fórca da impiccarla,
Signora mama, mio cor sta mal!
La fórca da impiccarla:
Ohimè, eh' io moro, ohimè!

[17. "What will you leave your sweetheart,
Dear son so fair and noble?
What will you leave your sweetheart?"
"The gallows-tree to hang her;
O Lady Mother, sick at heart am I!
The gallows-tree to hang her;
O woe is me! O woe is me! I die!"
]

The same version furnishes the episode of the poisoned hounds:

Coss' avi fa dell' altra mezza,
Figliuol mio caro, fiorito e gentil?
Cossa avi fa dell' altra mezza?
L' hó dada alla cagnòla:
Signóra mama, mio core sta mal!
L' hó dada alla cagnòla:
Ohimè, eh' io moro, ohimè!
Cossa avi fa della cagnòla,
Figliuol mio caro, fiorito e gentil?
Cossa avi fa della cagnòla?
L' è morta drè la strada;
Signora mama, mio core sta mal!
L' e morta dré la strada:
Ohimè, eh' io moro, ohimè!

[4. "What did you with the leavings,
Dear son so fair and noble?
What did you with the leavings?"
"I gave them to my good hound;
O Lady Mother, sick at heart am I!
I gave them to my good hound;
O woe is me! O woe is me! I die!"

5. "Where have you left your good hound,
Dear son so fair and noble?
Where have you left your good hound?"
"It fell dead in the roadway;
O Lady Mother, sick at heart am I!
It fell dead in the roadway;
0 woe is me! 0 woe is me! I die!"
]
* * * *

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 19 Jul 18 - 02:13 PM

The will stanzas are surely an international commonplace, occurring in What's the blood, Two brothers, Lizie Wan etc. (Can't bring myself to type the hated title 'E....d'!) and no doubt found in numerous foreign ballads.


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 09:50 AM

Hi,

This German variant dates to 1802 and logically to the 1700s. Jamieson published this translation in 1814. He said, "the following German popular ditty, inserted in the Knaben Wunderhern [1805-1808], of which, as it is too humble to be attempted in verse, we have given a verbatim English prose translation."

GROSSMUTTER SCHLANGENKCECHIN.

"Maria, wo bist du zur Stube geweten?
Maria, mein einziges kind?"

"Ich bin bey meiner Grossmutter gewesen;
— Ach weh! Frau Mutter, me weh!"

"Was hat sie dir dann zu essen gegeben,
Maria, mein einziges kind!

"Sie hat mir gebackne Fishlein gegeben;
— Ach weh! Frau Mutter! wie tteh! fyc"

GRANDMOTHER ADDER-COOK.

"Maria, what room have you been in,
Maria, my only child?"

"I have been with my grandmother ;
— Alas! lady mother, what pain!"

"What then has she given thee to eat,
Maria, my only child?"

"She has given me fried fishes ;
— Alas! lady mother, what pain!"

"Where did she catch the little fishes,
Maria, my only child?"

"She caught them in the kitchen-garden ;
— Alas! lady mother, what pain!"

"With what did she catch the little fishes,
Maria, my only child?"

"She caught them with rods and little sticks;
Alas! lady mother, what pain!"

"What did she do with the rest of the fishes;
Maria, my only child?"

"She gave it to her little dark-brown dog:
Alas! lady mother, what pain!"

"And what became of the dark-brown dog,
Maria, my only child?"

"It burst into a thousand pieces:
Alas! lady mother, what pain!"

"Maria, where shall I make thy bed,
Maria, my only child?"

"In the church-yard shalt thou make my bed,
Alas! lady mother, what pain!"

That any one of these Scottish, English, and German copies of the same tale has been borrowed or translated from another, seems very improbable; and it would now be in vain to attempt to ascertain what it originally was, or when it was produced.

* * * *

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 01:56 PM

Hi,

This is a translation of an Italian version recovered by G. B. Bolza who first recovered a version in 1865. I've added the translation to my post dated: 19 Jul 18 - 01:25 PM from this which is the entire version.

In his notes Child says of this version, "A, 'L'Avvelenato,' Bolza, Canzoni popolari comasche, No 49, Sitzungsberichte of the Vienna Academy (philos. histor. class), LIII, 668, is of seventeen stanzas, of seven short lines, all of which repeat but two: the 8th and 10th stanzas are imperfect."

It's taken from Alessandro D'ancona: La Poesia Popolare Italiana (Livorno, 1878), pp. 108-111. Translated in Folk-ballads of Southern Europe edited by Sophie Jewett, Katharine Lee Bates, 1913.

THE POISONED LOVER ("L'Avvelenato")

(Piedmontese)

1. "Where were you yesterevening,
Dear son so fair and noble?
Where were you yesterevening?
"I have been with my sweetheart;
O Lady Mother, sick at heart am I!
I have been with my sweetheart;
O woe is me! O woe is me! I die!"

2. "What supper did she give you,
Dear son so fair and noble?
What supper did she give you?"
"A little eel a-roasted;
O Lady Mother, sick at heart am I!
A little eel a-roasted;
O woe is me! O woe is me! I die!"

3. "And did you eat the whole, then,
Dear son so fair and noble?
And did you eat the whole, then?"
"Only the half I've eaten;
O Lady Mother, sick at heart am I!
Only the half I've eaten;
O woe is me! 0 woe is me! I die!"

4. "What did you with the leavings,
Dear son so fair and noble?
What did you with the leavings?"
"I gave them to my good hound;
O Lady Mother, sick at heart am I!
I gave them to my good hound;
O woe is me! O woe is me! I die!"

5. "Where have you left your good hound,
Dear son so fair and noble?
Where have you left your good hound?"
"It fell dead in the roadway;
O Lady Mother, sick at heart am I!
It fell dead in the roadway;
O woe is me! O woe is me! I die!"

6. "Oh, she has given you poison,
Dear son so fair and noble!
Oh, she has given you poison!"
"Now call to me the doctor;
O Lady Mother, sick at heart am I!
Now call to me the doctor;
O woe is me! O woe is me! I die!"

7. "Why do you want the doctor,
Dear son so fair and noble?
Why do you want the doctor?"
"That he may see what ails me;
O Lady Mother, sick at heart am I!
That he may see what ails me;
O woe is me! 0 woe is me! I die!

8. "Now call to me the curate;
O Lady Mother, sick at heart am I!
Now call to me the curate;
O woe is me! O woe is me! I die!"

9. "Why do you want the curate,
Dear son so fair and noble?
Why do you want the curate?"
"That I may make confession;
O Lady Mother, sick at heart am I!
That I may make confession;
O woe is me! 0 woe is me! I die!

10. "Now call to me a lawyer;
O Lady Mother, sick at heart am I!
Now call to me a lawyer;
O woe is me! 0 woe is me! I die!"

11. "Why do you want a lawyer[1],
Dear son so fair and noble?
Why do you want a lawyer?"
"My will to draw and witness;
O Lady Mother, sick at heart am I!
My will to draw and witness;
0 woe is me! 0 woe is me! I die!"

12. "What will you leave your mother,
Dear son so fair and noble?
What will you leave your mother?"
"I leave to her my palace;
O Lady Mother, sick at heart am I!
I leave to her my palace;
O woe is me! 0 woe is me! I die!"

13. "What will you leave your brothers,
Dear son so fair and noble?
What will you leave your brothers?"
"My carriage and my horses;
O Lady Mother, sick at heart am I!
My carriage and my horses;
O woe is me! O woe is me! I die!"

14. "What will you leave your sisters,
Dear son so fair and noble?
What will you leave your sisters?"
"A dowry for their marriage;
O Lady Mother, sick at heart am I!
A dowry for their marriage;
O woe is me! O woe is me! I die!"

15. "What will you leave your servants,
Dear son so fair and noble?
What will you leave your servants?"
"The road to go to mass on;
O Lady Mother, sick at heart am I!
The road to go to mass on;
O woe is me! 0 woe is me! I die!"

16. "What will you leave for your funeral,
Dear son so fair and noble?
What will you leave for your funeral?"
"A hundred and fifty masses;
O Lady Mother, sick at heart am I!
A hundred and fifty masses;
O woe is me! O woe is me! I die!"

17. "What will you leave your sweetheart,
Dear son so fair and noble?
What will you leave your sweetheart?"
"The gallows-tree to hang her;
0 Lady Mother, sick at heart am I!
The gallows-tree to hang her;
0 woe is me! O woe is me! I die!"

_____________

1. perhaps instead "notary"


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 05:13 PM

If you can gather enough versions in translation it might be possible to attempt connections between different strains. My own opinion is that at least some of them are direct translations from the Italian. The phraseology in all the ones we have seen so far shouts translation very loudly. How else can they pass from one language to another without translation?


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 05:51 PM

Hi,

Need a translation of Gaelic from Ériu, Volumes 1-2, 1905 by Douglas Hyde. The wife in the ballad text was named Nuala apparently after Hyde's daughter. Here's the link (the text is impossible to scan tho): https://books.google.com/books?pg=RA1-PA77&dq=%22Douglas+Hyde%22+lord+randal&id=i2DwAAAAMAAJ#v=onepage&q=%22Douglas%20Hyde%22%20 Click on page 80, the article is several pages long.

Here's a translation of the first stanza (Joyce):

"What was in the dinner you got, my fair-haired heart-pulse and my treasure?
What was in the dinner you got, thou flower of young men?"
"An eel that Nuala gave me with deadly poison in it;
Oh, my head! — it is paining me, and I want to lie down."

The Irish versions are identified by "pretty boy" as in the 1914 version from County Cork: “Where were you all day, my own purtee boy?” Any other older Irish versions?

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 21 Jul 18 - 09:55 PM

Hi,

From: James Madison Carpenter Collection, JMC/1/5/1/Q, p. 08581. This is also titled "Lord Ronald" in another MS. Stanza 2 is the only one with "gallant young man?"

    Lord Rondal - sung by Jean Ironside of 5 Auchreddie Road, New Deer learned from a singer in Gyne District.

1. "Where have you been, Lord Rondal, my son?
Where have you been, my handsome young man?"
"I've been to my sweetheart's, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm weary wi' wanderin' and fain would lie doon."

2. "Oh, have you had supper, Lord Rondal, my son
Oh, have you had supper, my gallant young man?"
"Oh yes I've had supper, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm weary wi' wanderin' and fain would lie doon."

3. "What had ye for supper, Lord Rondal, my son
"Black fish wi' white bellies, mother, make my bed soon,

4. I'm afraid you've been poisoned, Lord Rondal, my son
"Oh yes, I've been poisoned, mother, make my bed soon,

5. "What will you leave to your father, Lord Rondal, my son,
"My sheep and my cattle, mother, make my bed soon,

6. "What will you leave to your brother, Lord Rondal, my son,
"My horse an' my stable, mother, make my bed soon,

7. "What will you leave to your sister, Lord Rondal, my son,
"My rings an' my jewelry, mother, make my bed soon,

8. "What will you leave to your mother Lord Rondal, my son,
"My books and bible, mother, make my bed soon,

9. "What will you leave to your sweetheart Lord Rondal, my son,
What will you leave to your sweetheart, my handsome young man?"
"There's a rope in the stable, hang her on a tree,
And that's what she'll get for the poisonin' o' me.
Oh mother, dear mother, please make my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the heart and fain would lie doon."


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 22 Jul 18 - 01:08 PM

Hi,

I'm trying to transcribe the following version, I'll ck it later (Gotta go play jazz for three hours). What is chiappa' ? It should be "What did she give" feminine. Suggestions? "awake" in the first line is too literal, not sure how to fix it tho.

Canti popolari della Montagna lucchese [Folk Songs from the Mountains of Lucchese]
by Giovanni Giannini, 1879

L'AMANTE AVVELENATO [The Poisoned Lover]

Dove sei stato a veglia, [Where have you been awake]
Figliolo mio ricco savio e gentil? [My rich, wise and gentle son?]
Mi fai morì'! [I am dying]
Ohimè! [Alas!]
Dove sei stato a veglia, [Where have you been awake]
Gentil mio cavaliè'? [My gentle knight?]
— A casa della dama. [At the lady's house
Signora madre, il mio cuore sta male, ma male mi sta: [Lady mother, my heart is hurting, and it pains me]
Il mio cuore se ne va. [My heart is dying (leaving)]

Cosa ti ha dato a cena, [What did she (he) give you for dinner,]
Figliolo mio ricco savio e gentil? [My rich, wise and gentle son?]
Mi fai morì'! [I am dying]
Ohimè! [Alas!]
Cosa t'ha dato a cena, [What did she give you for dinner,]
Gentil mio cavaliè'? [My gentle knight?]
— Un' anguilletta cotta. [A small cooked eel]
Signora madre, il mio cuore sta male, ma male mi sta: [Lady mother, my heart is hurting, and it pains me]
Un' anguillina cotta: [A small cooked eel]
Il mio cuore se ne va. [My heart is dying (leaving)]


Dentro du' te l'ha chiappa',
Figliolo mio ricco savio e gentil?[My rich, wise and gentle son?]
Mi fai morì'! [I am dying]
Ohimè! [Alas!]
Dentro du' te l'ha chiappa',
Gentil mio cavaliè'? [My gentle knight?]
Nel boschettin dell' orto. [In the garden grove]
Signora madre, il mio cuore sta male, ma male mi sta:
Nel boschettin dell'orto: [In the garden grove]
Il mio cuore se ne va. [My heart is dying (leaving)]
Dentro du' te l'ha cotta,
Figlio mio ricco savio e gentil? [My rich, wise and gentle son?]
Mi fai morì'! [I am dying]
Ohimè! [Alas]
Dentro du' te l'ha cotta,
Gentil mio cavaliè'? —
'N del penturin dall'olio. [What part did she give you?]
Signora madre, il mio cuore sta male, ma male mi sta: [Lady mother, my heart is hurting, and it pains me]
'N del penturin dall'olio:
'L mio cuore se ne va.[My heart is dying (leaving)]
Quala parte t'ha dato, [What part did she given you?]
Figliolo mio ricco savio e gentil? [My rich, wise and gentle son?]
Mi fai morì'! [I am dying]
Ohimè! [Alas]

Quala parte t'ha dato, [What part did she give you]
Gentil mio cavaliè'? — [My gentle knight?]
La testa e la coda. [The head and tail]
Signora madre, il mio cuore sta male, marnale mi sta: [Lady mother, my heart is hurting, and it pains me]
La testa e la coda: [The head and tail]
'L mio cuore se ne va. —
— Cosa lassi alla serva,
Figliolo mio ricco savio e gentil? [My rich, wise and gentle son?]
Mi fai morì'! [I am dying]
Ohimè! [Alas!]

Cosa lassi alla serva,
Gentil mio cavaliè'? [My gentle knight?]—
— Lo strofinel de'-p-piatti. dishes]
Signora madre, il mio cuore sta male, marnale mi sta: [Lady mother, my heart is hurting, and it pains me]
Lo strofinel de'-p-piatti:
'L mio cuore se ne va. [My heart is dying (leaving)]
Cosa lasci al fratello, [What will you leave your brother,]
Figliolo mio ricco savio e gentil? [My rich, wise and gentle son?]
Mi fai morì'! [I am dying,]
Ohimè! [Alas!]
Cosa lasci al fratello, [What will you leave your brother,]
Gentil mio cavaliè'? [My gentle knight?]
Pantaloni e giubba. [Trousers and jackets.]
Signora madre, il mio cuore sta male, marnale mi sta:
Pantaloni e giubba: [Trousers and jackets.]
'li mio cuore se ne va.[My heart is dying (leaving).]

— Cosa lasci alla madre, [What will you leave your mother,]
Figliolo mio ricco savio e gentil? [My rich, wise and gentle son?]
Mi fai morì'!
Ohimè!
Cosa lasci alla madre, [What will you leave your mother,]
Gentil mio cavaliè' ? — [My gentle knight?]
— I gli occhi per il piange'. [My eyes for crying]
Signora madre, il mio cuore sta male, ma male mi sta:
I gli occhi per il piange': [My eyes for crying]
'L mio cuore se ne va. [My heart is dying (leaving).]

— Cosa lassi alla sorella, [What will you leave your sister,]
Figliolo mio ricco savio e gentil?
Mi fai morì'!
Ohimè!
Cosa lasci alla sorella, [What will you leave your sister,]
Gentil mio cavaliè'? —[ My gentle knight?]
— Cento scudi per maritalla. [One hundred shields --]
Signora madre, il mio cuore sta male, ma male mi sta:
Cento scudi per maritalla:
'L mio cuore se ne va. [My heart is dying (leaving).]
— Cosa lasci alla dama, [What will you leave to the lady,]
Figliolo mio ricco savio e gentil? [My rich, wise and gentle son?]
Mi fai morì'!
Ohimè!

Cosa lasci alla dama. [What will you leave to the lady]
Gentil mio cavaliè'? — [My gentle knight?]
— Un cordin per appiccalla.[A rope to torment(hell)]
Signora madre, il mio cuore sta male, ma male mi sta: [Lady mother, my heart is hurting, and it pains me]
Un cordin per appiccalla:
'L mio cuore se ne va. [My heart is dying (leaving).]

____________________


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 22 Jul 18 - 07:14 PM

Hi,

Two stanzas with music from James Madison Carpenter Collection, JMC/1/5/1/Q, p. 08578

Lord Ronald- girl singers (Scotland) no date or location about 1931.

1 "O Whar hae ye been Lord Ronald, my son?
"Whar hae ye been, my gallant young man?"
"I've been away hunting, mother, mak my bed soon,
For gin weary wi' huntin', an' fain wid lie doon."

2 "What got ye for supper, Lord Ronald, my son?
What got ye for supper, my gallant young man?"
"A dish o small fishes, mother, mak my bed soon,
For gin weary wi' huntin', an' fain wid lie doon."

* * * *

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Lighter
Date: 22 Jul 18 - 07:28 PM

This is probably the shortest version known. It may be a kind of joke, however.

The Scottish music-hall star and character actor Will Fyffe (1885 - 1947) sang it in the movie "Rulers of the Sea" (1939) to the tune of "The Laird o' Cockpen":

        Where have you been, young Ronald my son?
        What got you for dinner, young Ronald my son?
        Eels boiled in broo, mother, make my bed soon.
        I fear you are poisoned, young Ronald my son!


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 22 Jul 18 - 08:36 PM

Ty Lighter,

There are a couple one stanza Carpenter versions too :) From: James Madison Carpenter Collection, JMC/1/4/L, p. 07499

Lord Ronald- sung by Mrs James Pirie of Kirktown of Alvah Banffshire about 1931

1 "O where hae ye been Lord Ronald, my son,
Where hae ye been wandering, my jolly young man?"
"I've been a- hunting, mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm weary at the heart, an' fain would lie doon."

2 "What will ye have for dinner, Lord Ronald, my son?
What will ye have for dinner, my jolly young man?"
"I dined wi my truelove; mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the heart, an' fain would lie doon."

3 "What got ye for dinner, Lord Ronald, my son?
What got ye for dinner, my jolly young man?"
"I got fishes biled in bree; mother mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the heart, an' fain would lie doon."

4 "Wha gae ye the supper, Lord Ronald, my son,
Wha gae ye the supper, my jolly young man?"
"My girl an' my sweetheart; mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the heart, an' I fain would lie doon."

5 What's become o your hoonds Lord Ronald, my son,
What's become o your hoonds, my jolly young man,"
"They swelled an' they died, mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the heart, an' I fain would lie doon."

6. "I fear ye are poisoned, Lord Ronald, my son,
I fear ye are poisoned, my jolly young man,"
"O yes, I am poisoned; mother mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the heart, an' I fain would lie doon."

7 "What will ye leave to your father, Lord Ronald my son,
What will ye leave to your father, my jolly young man?'
"My land and my [houses]; mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the heart, and I fain wad lie doon."

8 "What will ye leave to your mother, Lord Ronald, my son?
What will ye leave to your mother, my jolly young man?"
"My cows an' the byre, mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the heart, and I fain would lie doon."

9 "What will ye leave to your brother, Lord Ronald, my son,
What will ye leave to your brother, my jolly young man?"
"My horse an' his stable mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the heart, and I fain wad lie doon."

10. "What will ye leave to your sister, Lord Ronald, my son
What will ye leave to your sister, my jolly young man?"
"My box an'my rings; mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the heart, and I fain would lie doon."

11 "What will ye leave to your sweetheart, Lord Ronald, my son?
What will ye leave to your sweetheart, my jolly young man?"
"A rope an' the halter, that hangs to the tree,
An' lat her hang there get for the poisoning o' me."


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 22 Jul 18 - 10:06 PM

Hi,

From: James Madison Carpenter Collection, JMC/1/4/L, p. 07497
Performer. Inconsistent dialect.

Lord Randal- sung by Mrs William Duncan of Oyne, Aberdeenshire about 1931.

1 "Where hae ye been hunting, Lord Randal, my son?
Where hae ye been hunting, my handsome young man?"
"Down in yon green meadows, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm weary, weary wanderin' an' fain would lie doon."

2 "Who did you dine wi, Lord Randal, my son?
Who did you dine wi, my handsome young man?"
"I dined wi my sweetheart, mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm weary, weary wanderin' an' fain would lie doon."

3 "What had you for supper, Lord Randal, my son?
What had you for supper, my handsome young man?"
"I got veal fried with ashney, mother make my bed soon,
For I'm weary, weary wanderin' an' fain would lie doon."

4 "What became of your greyhound, Lord Randal, my son?
What became of your greyhound, my handsome young man?"
He swelled an' he died, mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm weary, weary wanderin' an' fain would lie doon."

5. "I think ye are poisoned, Lord Randal, my son,
I think ye are poisoned, my handsome young man,"
"O yes, I am poisoned; mother mak my bed soon,
For I'm weary, wi wanderin' an' fain would lie doon."

6. "What'll ye leave to your father, Lord Randal my son
What will ye leave to your father, my handsome young man?'
"My land an' my horses; mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm weary, wi wanderin' an' fain would lie doon."

7. "What will ye leave to your mother, Lord Randal, my son?
What will ye leave to your mother, my handsome young man?"
My gold an' my silver, mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm weary, wi wanderin' an' fain would lie doon."

8 "What'll ye leave to your sister, Lord Randal, my son?
What'll ye leave to your brother, my handsome young man?"
"My box an' my jewels, mother mak my bed soon,
For I'm weary, wi wanderin' an' fain would lie doon."

9. "What'll ye leave to your sweetheart, Lord Randal, my son?
What'll ye leave to your sweetheart, my handsome young man?"
"A dish o' rank poison as she gaed to me,
Gin that disna dee her, she'll be hanged on a tree."
* * * *

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 22 Jul 18 - 10:38 PM

Hi,

There are at least two similar Swedish versions titled, Den Lillas Testamente. This is from "Svenska folkvisor" Erik Gustaf Geijer och Arvid August Afzelius, 1816. The translation below is from "Lord Ronald in Italy," by Carrington 1886.

       1. »Hvar har du varit så länge? —
            Dotter, liten kind! —
       »Jag har varit hos min amma.»
            Kär styfmoder min! —
       För aj aj! ondt hafver jag — jag.

       2. »Hvad fick du der att äta?» —
       »Ett par små randiga fiskar.»

       3. »Hvad gjorde du af benen?» —
       »Dem gaf jag lilla hunden.»

       4. »Hvad önskar du din fader?» —
       »Himmelen den glade.»

       5. »Hvad önskar du din moder?» —
       »Himmelen den gode.»

       6. »Hvad önskar du din broder?» —
       »Ett gångande skepp i floden.»

       7. »Hvad önskar du din syster?» —
       »Gullskrin och kistor.»

       8. »Hvad önskar du din styfmor?»
       »Helvetet det svåra.»

       9. »Hvad önskar du din amma?» —
       »Den önskar jag det samma.»

       10. »Jag hafver icke tider,
            Att tala mer vid er;
       Ty himmelens små klockor
            De ringa efter mig.»
       För aj, aj! ondt hafver jag — jag.
                * * * *

1. “Where have you been so long[1]
My dearest child?”
“I have been to see my nurse, stepmother mine.”
Ouch, ouch, I have a terrible pain, ouch!

2. “What did you eat there
My dearest child?”
“Pepper roasted eel, stepmother mine
”Ouch, ouch, I have a terrible pain, ouch!”

3 “What did you do with the bones?”
”I gave them to the dog.”

4 ”What happened to the dog?”
“It blew up in fifteen pieces.”

5 ”What will you give your father?”
”Loads of good barley.”

6 ”What will you give your mother then?”
”Heaven ´s delight.”

7 ”What will you give your brother?”
”Big ships out in the sea.”

8 "What will you give your sister then?”
”Gold case and chest.”

9 ”What will you give your stepmother?”
”All of Hell's burden.”

10 ”What will you give your nurse?”
”Hell's fire.
___________________

1. The transcription above is not literal and the first stanza could more accurately be:

"Where have you been so long,
Daughter, little child?"
"Sure with my old nurse I've stayed,
My step-mother mine!
For oh! oh! sore pains have I— I!"
* * * *

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 02:11 PM

Hi,

This is Swedish version from Ostergothland in 1837 (my translation below). I've fixed the notes some but there are still errors from google translate. From: Svenska fornsånger, en samling utg. af A.I. Arwidsson. 3 deler by Svenska fornsånger, 1837

88. Den Lillas Testamente

Jemte melodit fran Ostergothland. — Uppfinningen och anord- niogen af denna tradition ar markbart olik den som forekommer bland Svenska Folk-Visor, III, 13. P2 sednast namde stalle uppgifves "dotter liten kind" hafva blifvit forgiftad, vid ett besok hos sin amma; uti nedanfore meddelade slag verkslalles detta hos brodern af bennes amma och styfmoder. Ofvannamnde Svenska folkvisa ar ofversatt af Studach, i Schwedische Volksbarfe, s. 98 samt af Mohnike, bland Volkslieder der Schweden, I, 5. — Diktningar hos fremmande folkslag som likna denna, aro: Grossmutter Schlangenkochin, i Des Knaben Wunderhorn von Achim v. Arnim und Cl. Brantano, Th. I, s.19, (pa Engelska uti Illustrations of northern Antiquities, from the earlier Teutonic and Scandinavian Romances (by H. Weber and R. Jamieson 8. 320), och slutet af The cruel Brother, or, the Bride's Testament, hos Jamieson, 1. c. I, 66, hvaraf en skiljaktig uppteckning forekommer hos Gilchrist, 1. c I, ao5. Borjan deraf bar afven likbet med: Lord Randal, uti W. Scotts Minstrelsy of the Scottish Border (uppl. 5), II, s. 267, (Ofversatt af Grimm, bland Drei Altschottische Lieder).

1. "Hvar har du va't sä länge?" —
Lilla dotter kind!
"Jag har va't i bänne,
"Hos broderen min!"
Aj, aj, ondt hafver jag, jag!

2. "Hvad fick du der att äta?" --
Lilla dotter kind!
"Slekter äl och peppar,
"Styfmoder min!"
Aj, aj, ondt bafver jag, jag!

3."Hvad gjorde du af benen!" —
Lilla dotter kind!
Kasta dem for hundarne,
Styfmoder min!"
Aj, aj, m, m.

4. "Hvart kommo de hundarne?" —
"Remna i femton stycken,
Hundarne smä, m, m.

5. "Hvad ger du dä din fader?" —
"Godt korn i lador,
Faderen min!"

6. "Hyad ger du dä din broder?" —
"Vida skepp i floder,
"Broderen min!"

7. "Hvad ger du dä din syster?" —
"Guldskrin och kistor,
"Systeren min!"

8. "Hvad ger du din styfmoder?" —
"Helvetes bojor,
"Styfmoder min!"

9. "Hvad ger du da din amma?" —
Lilla dotter kind!
"Helvetet samma,
"Amman min!'
Aj, aj, ondt hafver jag, jag!

_____________

Swedish songs, a collection of A.I. Arwidsson. 3 parts
by Swedish singers, 1837


88. The Child's Testament (Will)

Along with a melody from Ostergothland. The invention and arrangement of nine of this tradition are markedly different from that of Svenska Folk-Visor, III, 13. P2, considering the last stall name given "daughter little child" was poisoned at a visit to her grandmother; in the following version, this was done with the brother at the stepmother's and stepmother's nurse. Mentioned above in Swedish folklore is over rated by Studach, in Schwedische Volksbarfe, p. 98, and by Mohnike, among Volkslieder der Schweden, I, 5. - Dictations of versions similar to this, such as: Grossmutter Schlangenkochin, des Knaben Wunderhorn von Achim v. Arnim and Cl. Brantano, Th. I, p.19, "English in Illustrations of Northern Antiquities, from the earlier Teutonic and Scandinavian Romances (by H. Weber and R. Jamieson 8, 320), and the end of The Cruel Brother, or the Bride's Testament, at Jamieson, 1. c. I, 66, of which a discernible record appears at Gilchrist, 1. c I, 205. The ballad of the same was as follows: Lord Randal, in W. Scotts Minstrelsy of the Scottish Border (Ed. 5), II, p. 267, (Overstated by Grimm, Among Drei Altschottische Lieder).

1. "Where have you been so long now
Little daughter child?"
"I've been to Banne,
"With brother mine!"
Oh, oh, sore pains have I, I!

2. "What did you get there to eat,
Little daughter child?"
"Roasted eels and pepper,
"Stepmother mine!"
Oh, oh, sore pains have I, I!

3. "What did you do with the legs,
Little daughter child?"
"Threw them to the dogs,
Stepmother mine!"
Oh, Oh, m, m.

4. "What became of the dogs?"
"Bursted in fifteen pieces,
The dogs are small, m, m.

5. "What do you give your father there?" -
"Good grain in barns,
Father mine!"

6. "What are you giving your brother?"
"Big ship in the river,
Brother mine!"

7. "What do you give your sister there?" -
"Gold boxes and chests,
"Sister mine!"

8. "What do you give your stepmother?" -
"The bowels of hell,
"Stepmother mine!"

9. "What do you give your nurse?" -
Little daughter child!
"Hell the same,
"Nurse mine!"
Oh, oh, sore pains have I, I!
* * * *

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 03:57 PM

Okay so the details vary somewhat and the narrative is very slim, it being all dialogue with lots of re-iteration, but it doesn't matter what language it turns up in the form is remarkably similar in each language. Off hand I can't think of another international ballad that does this. The norm is for ballads in different languages to use a common story or to have motifs in common. Remarkable! Perhaps another candidate would be 'Maid Freed from the Gallows'. I would go as far as to offer this ballad has possibly inspired the other 'will making' ballads like 'What is that Blood', 'Lizzie Wan'.


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 04:18 PM

> the form is remarkably similar in each language.

Remarkably similar indeed, with random variations in the details, for example the first Swedish one above having the interrogation by the stepmother and the poisoning by the nurse!


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 08:32 AM

Hi,

From James Madison Carpenter Collection, JMC/1/4/L, p. 07501. This was the version Grieg printed in his newspaper article c. 1910 (Folk Songs of the North East, p. 112).

Lord Ronald- sung by William Ross of Old Schoolhouse, Balquhindochy, by Turriff, Aberdeenshire, Scotland. Collected by Carpenter about 1931.

1 "Where have you been Lord Ronald, my son?
Where have you been, my jolly young man?"
"I've been a- hunting, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm weary, weary wandering, an' I fain would lie doon."

2 "And have you got supper, Lord Ronald, my son?
"And have you got supper, my jolly young man?"
"O yes, I've got supper; mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm weary, weary wandering, an' I fain would lie doon."

3 "What got you for supper, Lord Ronald, my son?
What got you for supper, my jolly young man?"
"A dish of small fishes, mother make my bed soon,
For I'm weary, weary wandering, an' I fain would lie doon."

4 "What like were those fishes, Lord Ronald, my son?
What like were those fishes, my jolly young man?"
"Yellow backs an' sprackled bellies; mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm weary, weary wandering, an' I fain would lie doon."

5 "I fear you are poisoned, Lord Ronald, my son,
I fear you are poisoned, my jolly young man,"
"O yes, I am poisoned; mother make my bed soon,
For I'm weary, weary wandering, an' I fain would lie doon."

6 "[What] will you leave to your brother, Lord Ronald my son
[What] will you leave to your brother, my jolly young man?'
"My gold watch an' gold chain, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm weary, weary wandering, an' I fain would lie doon."

7 "[What] will ye leave to your sister, Lord Ronald, my son?
[What] will ye leave to your sister, my jolly young man?"
My purse and my silver, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm weary, weary wandering, an' I fain would lie doon."

8. "[What] will ye leave to your mother, Lord Ronald, my son?
What will ye leave to your mother, my jolly young man?"
"My house and my rents mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm weary, weary wandering, an' I fain would lie doon."

9. "[What] will ye leave to your father, Lord Ronald, my son?
[What] will ye leave to your father, my jolly young man?"
"My horse an' my stable; mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm weary, weary wandering, an' I fain would lie doon."

10 "[What] will ye leave to your sweetheart, Lord Ronald, my son?
[What] will ye leave to your sweetheart, my jolly young man?"
"Yon tow an' yon halter, that hangs on yon tree,
An' that's what she gets for the poisoning o' me."

* * * *

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 08:47 AM

Hi,

Fragment with music from: James Madison Carpenter Collection, JMC/1/4/L, p. 07502. Extended last stanza.

Lord Ronald- sung by Miss Elsie Miln of The Cottage, Kennethmont, Scotland, about 1931.

1 "What ails you, what ails you, Lord Ronald, my son?
What ails you, Lord Ronald, my jolly young man?"
"O mother, I'm poisoned you'll mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the hert, an' I'd fain lie doon."

2 "What got ye for supper, Lord Ronald, my son?
"What got ye for supper, my jolly young man?"
"A dish o' small fishes, mother mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the hert, an' I'd fain lie doon."

3 "What'll ye leave tee your brother, Lord Ronald my son
What'll ye leave tee your brother, my jolly young man?
"My hooses an' lands, mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the hert, an' I'd fain lie doon."

4 "What'll ye leave tee your sister, Lord Ronald, my son?
What'll ye leave tee your sister, my jolly young man?"
My horses and my carriage, mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the hert, an' I'd fain lie doon."

5. "What'll ye leave tee your sweetheart, Lord Ronald, my son?
What'll ye leave tee your sweetheart, my jolly young man?"
"A tow an' a halter, mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the hert, an' I'd fain lie doon."

6. "A tow an' a halter, for tee hang on a tree,
A tow an' a halter for the poisoning o' me."
"A tow an' a halter, mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the hert, an' I'd fain lie doon."
* * * *

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 09:05 AM

Hi,

From James Madison Carpenter Collection, JMC/1/4/L, p. 07503, recorded melody also in in Keith/Greig. This is Greig-Duncan B, c. 1907 collected by Greig.

Lord Ronald- sung by Alexander Robb of New Deer, Aberdeenshire, Scotland about 1931.

1 "Where have you been a' day, Lord Ronald, my son?
Where have you been a' day, my gallant young man?"
"O I've been a- hunting, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm wearied, wearied wandering, and fain would lie doon."

2 "What got ye tee your supper, Lord Ronald, my son?
What got ye tee your supper, my gallant young man?"
"Black fish wi white bellies, mother make my bed soon,
For I'm wearied, wearied wandering, and fain would lie doon."

3. "You're poisoned, you're poisoned Lord Ronald, my son,
You're poisoned, you're poisoned, my gallant young man[1],"
["O yes, I am poisoned; mother make my bed soon,
For I'm wearied, wearied wandering, and fain would lie doon."]

4 "What'll ye leave tee your brother, Lord Ronald my son
What'll ye leave tee your brother, my gallant young man?'
"My houses and lands, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm wearied, wearied wandering, and fain would lie doon."

5 "What'll ye leave tee your sister, Lord Ronald, my son?
What'll ye leave tee your sister, my gallant young man?"
My books and my Bibles, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm wearied, wearied wandering, and fain would lie doon."

6 "What'll ye leave tee your sweetheart, Lord Ronald, my son?
What'll ye leave tee your sweetheart, my gallant young man?"
"The tow and the halter, that hangs on yon tree,
And well does she deserve it for the poisoning o' me."
For the poisoning o' me, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm wearied wi' wandering, and fain would lie doon."
_______________

1. I've added an approximation of the two missing lines which follow.


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 09:34 AM

Hi,

The text/music of Lord Ronald sung by W. C. Cruikshank of Cortes Gardens, Lonmay, Scotland is missing. It is listed in the James Madison Carpenter database but is not in the VWML.


From: James Madison Carpenter Collection, JMC/1/4/L, p. 07505. The following version has the bloodhound stanza, rare among Carpenter versions.

Lord Ronald- sung by Hector Campbell of Ythanwells, Aberdeenshire, Scotland about 1931.

1 "O have you been hunting, Lord Ronald, my son?
O have you been hunting, my handsome young man?"
"O yes I've been hunting, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm weary, weary wanderin', and I fain wid lie doon."

2 "O who were you with, Lord Ronald, my son?
O who were you with, my handsome young man?"
"I've been with my sweetheart, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm weary wi' huntin', and fain wid lie doon."

3 "What had ye for your dinner, Lord Ronald, my son?
What had ye for your dinner, my handsome young man?"
"I had for my dinner, fried eels in a pan,
For I'm weary wi' huntin', and fain wid lie doon."

4 "What became of your bloodhounds, Lord Ronald, my son?
What became of your bloodhounds, my handsome young man?"
"They swelled up and they died, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm weary wi' the huntin', and fain wid lie doon."

5 "I afraid you've been poisoned, Lord Ronald, my son,
I afraid you've been poisoned, my handsome young man,"
"O yes, I've been poisoned; mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm weary wi the huntin', and fain wid lie doon."

6 "What leave you to your mother, Lord Ronald my son
What leave you to your mother, my handsome young man?'
"I leave to my mother, my houses and land,
But I'm weary wi' the huntin', and fain wid lie doon."

7. "What leave ye to your sweetheart, Lord Ronald, my son?
What leave ye to your sweetheart, my handsome young man?"
"She'll get arsenic and water, the thing she gie me,
And if that dis nae sair her, she can hang on a tree."

* * * *

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 09:56 AM

Hi,

From: James Madison Carpenter Collection, JMC/1/4/L, p. 07506

Lord Ronald- sung by Jean Esselmont of Cuminestown, Scotland, 1931.

1 "Where have you been, Lord Ronald, my son?
Where have you been, my gallant young man?"
"I've been to see my sweetheart, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm weary, weary wandering, and fain wid lie doon."

2 "What had you for supper, Lord Ronald, my son?
What had you for supper, my gallant young man?"
"A plate of nice fishes, mother make my bed soon,
For I'm weary, weary wandering, and fain wid lie doon."

4 "What kind of fishes, Lord Ronald, my son?
What kind of fishes, my gallant young man?"
"Black backs and white bellies, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm weary, weary wandering, and fain wid lie doon."

4 "I fear you've been poisoned, Lord Ronald, my son,
I fear you've been poisoned, my gallant young man,"
"Yes mother, I've been poisoned; O make my bed soon,
For I'm weary, weary wandering, and fain wid lie doon."

5 "What'll you leave to your father, Lord Ronald my son
What'll you leave to your father, my gallant young man?'
"My horses and stables, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm weary, weary wandering, and fain wid lie doon."

6. "What'll you leave to your mother, Lord Ronald, my son?
What'll you leave to your mother, my gallant young man?"
My purse and my silver, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm weary, weary wandering, and fain wid lie doon."

7. "What'll you leave to your brother, Lord Ronald, my son?
What'll you leave to your brother, my gallant young man?"
"My gold watch and chain, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm weary, weary wandering, and fain wid lie doon."

8. "What'll you leave to your sister, Lord Ronald, my son?
What'll you leave to your sister, my gallant young man?"
"My books and my bible, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm weary, weary wandering, and fain wid lie doon."

9. "What'll you leave to your sweetheart, Lord Ronald, my son?
What'll you leave to your sweetheart, my gallant young man?"
"There's a rope in yon stable, and she'll hang on yon tree,
That's what she'll get for the poisoning o' me."


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 10:13 AM

Hi,

Fragment from James Madison Carpenter Collection, JMC/1/4/L, p. 07507, has an unusual last line.

Young Donald- sung by Mrs A. Cameron of Keeth, Scotland, 1931.

1. "What got you for supper, young Donald, my son?
What got you for supper, my gallant young man?"
"I'm afraid I've got poison, mother make my bed soon,
For life is a burden, an' I'd fain lay it doon."

2. "What'll you leave to your father, young Donald my son
What'll you leave to your father, my gallant young man?"
"My gold and my silver, mother, make my bed soon,
For life is a burden, an' I'd fain lay it doon."

3. "What'll ye leave to your brothers, young Donald, my son?
What'll ye leave to your brothers, my gallant young man?"
"My boxes and property, mother, make my bed soon,
For life is a burden, an' I'd fain lay it doon."

4. "What'd ye leave to your sweetheart, young Donald, my son?
What'd ye leave to your sweetheart, my gallant young man?"
"The rope an' the gallows, that hangs on yon tree,
And she will get that for the poisonin' o' me."
* * * *

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 10:27 AM

Hi,

Fragment from the US from James Madison Carpenter Collection, JMC/1/4/L, p. 07514. Fairly close to the Scottish versions.

Lord Randall- sent in by Evelyn Grant of Plantersville, Miss. Learned from her mother Mrs. J.S. Grant, no date but around 1938

1 "O where have you been, Lord Randall, my son?
O where have you been, my handsome young man?"
"I've been to the woods, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm weary with hunting, and fain would lie down."

2 "Where did you get your dinner, Lord Randall, my son?
Where did you get your dinner, my handsome young man?"
"I dined with my truelove, Mother make my bed soon,
For I'm weary with hunting, and fain would lie down."

3 "What did ye have for dinner, Lord Randall, my son?
What did ye have for dinner, my handsome young man?"
"Eels fried in butter, Mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm weary with hunting, and fain would lie down."

* * * *

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 10:36 AM

Hi,

Single stanza with music from James Madison Carpenter Collection, JMC/1/6/6/G, p. 10079

Lord Randal- sung by Peter Christie of 21 Shore Head, Stonehaven about 1931.

1 "O where hae ye been, Lord Randal, my son?
And where hae ye been, my handsome young man?"
"I've been at the greenwoods, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm weary wi' hunting, and fain would lie down."
* * * *

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 10:42 AM

What would make a really useful study is where Carpenter collected from Grieg's informants, any differences in the versions recorded, with the 25 year interval.


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 10:59 AM

Hi,

Yes Steve, there are a number of versions by the same informant that are in Greig-Duncan (Lyle), Greig-Keith and Carpenter. Greig-Keith (Last Leaves) only gives one full text, for this ballad its Bell Roberston's. The Alex Robb text in Greig-Keith is melody with only one stanza of text. There are differences-- some are quite different as the informant has learned from other versions.

The Willie Mathieson version (first posted in this thread) is also in Scottish School of Music (1952) collection so he was around for all as were a few other informants.

The other publication with Grieg's versions is Grieg's newspaper articles circa 1910, which you have. Some newspaper versions are reprinted in Carpenter too. The newspaper article versions also vary.

* * * *

Single stanza with music from James Madison Carpenter Collection, JMC/1/5/1/Q, p. 08575

Lord Ronald- sung by William Duncan, who may be the husband of Mrs. William Duncan, who is from Tories, Oyne, by Turriff, Aberdeenshire. Dated c. 1931.

Where have ye been a-huntin, Lord Ronald, my son?
Where have ye been a-huntin, my handsome young man?"
Down in yon green meadow[1], mother make my bed soon,
I'm weary, weary wanderin' and fain wid lie doon.
__________________
1. original has "meadey"

* * * *

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 11:52 AM

Hi,

Two stanzas with music from James Madison Carpenter Collection, JMC/1/5/1/Q, p. 08577

Lord Randle- sung by Mrs Jeanie T. Durward of Viewfield, St Fergus, Aberdeenshire; dated 1932.

"Where have you been, Lord Randle, my son?
Where have you been, my handsome young man?"
"I'se been a- huntin', mother make my bed soon,
I'm weary wis huntin' and fain wad lie doon."

"What got ye for dinner, Lord Randle, my son?
What got ye for dinner, my handsome young man?"
"I got eels boiled in brew, mother make my bed soon,
I'm weary wis huntin' and fain wad lie doon.
* * * *

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 12:38 PM

Hi,

The version Grieg printed in his newspaper article c. 1910 (Folk Songs of the North East, p. 112) is: Lord Ronald- sung by William Ross of Old Schoolhouse, Balquhindochy. It was transcribed several posts back. There are some very minor edits.

This new transcript is from: James Madison Carpenter Collection, JMC/1/5/1/Q, pp. 08583-08584

Lord Ronald- sung by William Morrison of Wardhead, Bieldside, Aberdeenshire, Scotland. Learned c. 1927 from Bailie at Hill of Phiddis, Udney.

1 "Oh, where have you been to, Lord Ronald, my son?
Oh where have you been to, my gallant young man?"
"I've been away hunting, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm wearied wis wanderin, an' fain would lie doon."

2 "Have ye gotten supper, Lord Ronald, my son?
"Have ye gotten supper, my gallant young man?"
"Yes, I've got supper; mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm wearied wis wanderin, an' fain would lie doon."

3 "What had ye for supper, Lord Ronald, my son?
What had ye for supper, my gallant young man?"
"I've had a few fishes, mother make my bed soon,
For I'm wearied wis wanderin, an' fain would lie doon."

4 "What kind were the fishes, Lord Ronald, my son?
What kind were the fishes, my gallant young man?"
"They were black backed an' spreckled bellied, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm wearied wis wanderin, an' fain would lie doon."

5 "I doot ye've been poisoned, Lord Ronald, my son,
I doot ye've been poisoned, my gallant young man,"
"Yes, I've poisoned; mother make my bed soon,
For I'm wearied wis wanderin, an' fain would lie doon."

6 "What d'ya leave to your father, Lord Ronald my son
What d'ya you leave to your father, my gallant young man?"
"My houses in London, mother make my bed soon,
For I'm wearied wis wanderin, an' fain would lie doon."

7 "What d'ye leave to your mother, Lord Ronald, my son?
What d'ye leave to your mother, my gallant young man?"
My purse and my savings, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm wearied wis wanderin, an' fain would lie doon."

8. "What d'ye leave to your brother, Lord Ronald, my son?
What d'ye leave to your brother, my gallant young man?"
"Yon horse in yon stables, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm wearied wis wanderin, an' fain would lie doon."

9. "What d'ye leave to your sister, Lord Ronald, my son?
What d'ye leave to your sister, my gallant young man?"
"My gold watch and chain; mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm wearied wis wanderin, an' fain would lie doon."

10 "What d'ye leave to your sweetheart, Lord Ronald, my son?
What d'ye leave to your sweetheart, my gallant young man?"
"Yon rope and yon halter, that hangs on yon tree,
An' that's what she'll get for the poisoning of me."


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 02:14 PM

Hi,

There is a version in Carpenter's Collection of Den Lillas Testemente or The Child's Last Will, (VWML Song Index SN23926) which is the Swedish version. The text is simiar to the two versions I posted but it's clearly different:
https://www.vwml.org/search?q=%20Den%20Lillas%20Testaments&is=1

If anyone knows the source please let me know,

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 02:56 PM

Hi,

From: James Madison Carpenter Collection, JMC/1/4/L, p. 07509, this version has an archaic sounding phrase "huntin' in floonery fields," which makes it seem older. The first two stanzas have "handsome young man" while the rest have "jolly young man" which suggests a composite.

Lord Ronald- sung by Mrs Mary Stewart Robertson of 6 Auchreddie Road, New Deer, Aberdeenshire, Scotland. Learned from her mother.

1. "O faur hae ye been a' the day, Lord Ronald, my son?
O faur hae ye been a' the day, my handsome young man?"
"A huntin' in floonery fields, mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the hert an' fain would lie doon."

2. "Fat got ye for supper, Lord Ronald, my son?
Fat got ye for supper, my handsome young man?"
"A dish o sma fishes, mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the hert an' fain would lie doon."

3. "Fat color wis that fishes, Lord Ronald, my son?
Fat color wis that fishes, my jolly young man?"
"They were reid purple yellow wi lang spackled bellies, mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the hert an' fain would lie doon."

4. "I doot ye are poisoned, Lord Ronald, my son?
I doot ye are poisoned, my jolly young man?"
"Oh yes, I am poisoned, mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the hert an' fain would lie doon."

5. "What'll ye leave tee your father, Lord Ronald, my son?
What'll ye leave tee your brother, my jolly young man?"
"My houses an' lands, mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the hert an' fain would lie doon."

6. "What'll ye leave tee your brother, Lord Ronald, my son?
What'll ye leave tee your brother, my jolly young man?"
"My bright gowd stars, mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the hert an' fain would lie doon."

7 "What'll ye leave tee your sister, Lord Ronald, my son?
What'll ye leave tee your sister, my jolly young man?"
"Gowd earrings, gowd brooches, mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the hert an' fain would lie doon."

8. "What'll ye leave tee your sweetheart, Lord Ronald, my son?
What'll ye leave tee your sweetheart, my jolly young man?"
"The block and the rope, that hung on the tree,
An' cold water an' poison that she's gied tee me, mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm weary at the hert an' fain would lie doon."
* * * *

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 03:19 PM

What are 'floonery fields' and why is it archaic?


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 03:23 PM

Hi,

Steve-- her versions from her mother have been old (see Two Sisters), this phrase reminded me of "flowery fields" from the Stewart (Aberdeen) line, I guess it was an instinctual comment, I'll have to look at it further, glad you pointed that out. Following are two single stanza Carpenter versions with music:

   James Madison Carpenter Collection, JMC/1/6/5/B, p. 09624

Lord Ronald- sung by Mrs. Isabella Reed of Port Gordon, Banffshire.

1. "Where have you been huntin Lord Ronald, my son?
Where have you been hunting, my handsome young man?"
"O, I've been a-hunting, mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm weary wie huntin', and fain wad lie doon."

* * * *

Very similar text, one stanza with music from James Madison Carpenter Collection, JMC/1/5/1/Q, p. 08592

Lord Ronald- sung by a Woman singer (soft voice) given by Mrs Andrew Thompson of Spey Bay, Banffshire.

1. "Where have you been hunting, Lord Ronald, my son?
Where have you been hunting, my handsome young man?"
"O, I've been a-hunting, mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm weary wie wandrin', and fain wad lie doon."

* * * *

As a side note: James Madison Carpenter Collection, JMC/1/6/6/K, pp. 10297-10298 is Child A. It's a two-page MS sent in by Margaret Stull of Waynesboro, Pennsylvania about 1938. It gives Child A in it's entirety and begins:

1 "Oh, Where ha you been Lord Randal, my son?
And where ha you been, my handsome young man?"
"I ha been to the greenwood, mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm wearied wi' huntin', an' fain wad lie down."

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 04:11 PM

Hi,

I finally found the Cruickshank version, maybe had name wrong. It's located at James Madison Carpenter Collection, JMC/1/2/2/K, p. 05606. This is one of only two Carpenter versions with the bloodhound stanza- it also has "wildwoods" which is also unusual.

    Lord Ronald- sung by W. C. Cruickshank of Cortes Gardens, Lonmay, Aberdeenshire. Learned about 1881 from his sister.

1. "Oh whar hae ye been, Lord Ronald my son,
Oh whar hae ye been, my handsome young man?"
"I hae been to the wildwoods, mother, mak my bed soon,
I am weary wi huntin and fain would lie doon."

2. "Whar got ye your dinner, Lord Ronald my son,
Whar got ye your dinner, my handsome young man?"
"I dined wi my truelove, mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm weary wi huntin and fain would lie doon."

3. "What got ye to[at] dinner, Lord Ronald my son,
What got ye to dinner, my handsome young man?"
"I eels boiled in brew, mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm weary wi huntin and fain would lie doon."

4."What became o your bloodhounds, Lord Ronald my son,
What became o your bloodhounds, my handsome young man?"
"O they swelled and thye died, mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm weary wi huntin and fain would lie doon."

5. "I'm afraid ye are poisoned, Lord Ronald my son,
I'm afraid ye are poisoned, my handsome young man?"
"O yes, I am poisoned, mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the heart and fain would lie doon."


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 04:59 PM

Hi,

The last two are versions of Child 12 are James Madison Carpenter Collection, JMC/1/11/34, Disc Side 034, 00:00

Lord Randal- sung Mrs (Margaret) Vass - no text transcribed and it's hard to hear and sounds like another song.

And---

    James Madison Carpenter Collection, JMC/1/8/1/B, p. 11502.

Lord Ronald sung by Mrs John Baird. No text just the melody.

__________________________

Some brief conclusions and I'll be working on other British versions and can perhaps better comment on how they fit into the Scottish timeline.

Lord Ronald is the overwhelming favorite name for the poisoned one and title. The location is usually vague: he's gone hunting or wandering- or, is at his sweethearts. Specific locations includes "wildwoods," "green meadow" "floonery (flowery?) fields" or the "woods." Many of the versions do not establish that Lord Ronald has gone to his sweetheart's (some do in the first stanza) until it's discovered when his mother asks when he got his dinner.

He eats a variety of poisoned fish (sometimes black or "black fishes wi spreckled bellies") and eels which are usually "eels boiled in brew." Only two versions have his bloodhounds missing because they've eaten the poison and swelled then died. As soon as it's established that he's eaten poison fish/eels and is dying, he makes his will giving his father, mother, brother and sister (usually in that order but it varies) different gifts. The gifts are all fairly standard. His sweetheart usually received a rope (tow) and a halter and will be hung on yon tree but sometimes she is poisoned then if she survives, is to be hung.

The 23 versions posted here are Scottish except one version is from the US (seems Scottish) and another (no source given) from Sweden (Den Illas Testemente).

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 05:48 PM

Hi,

This is from Keith Greig's Last Leaves, p. 13-14 and represent possibly an earlier generation or two-- however, the text is the same, the title slightly changed to Lord Donald. Only one version from Last Leaves has "[Lord] Henry" which is Keith Grieg 3 by James M. Brown (one stanza but Greig Duncan A, 5 stanzas) which are only the "will" stanzas.

Lord Donald- recited by Bell Roberston of New Pitsligo, Aberdeenshire. Collected by Grieg about 1906.

1 "Where have ye been a-huntin', Lord Donald, my son?
Where have ye been a-huntin', my jolly young man?"
"Oh yes, I've been a- hunting, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the heart, an' so fain would lie doon."

2 "Have you got ony supper, Lord Donald, my son?
Have you got ony supper, my jolly young man?"
"O yes, I've got supper; mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the heart, an' so fain would lie doon."

3 "What kind was the supper, Lord Donald, my son,
What kind was the supper, my jolly young man?"
"A dish of small fishes, mother mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the heart, an' so fain would lie doon."

4. "What kind was the fishes, Lord Donald my son?
What kind was the fishes, my jolly young man?"
"Black backs and speckled bellies, mother make my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the heart, an' so fain would lie doon."

5. "O where did you dine, Lord Donald, my son?
O where did you dine, my jolly young man?"
"I dined with my sweetheart; mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the heart, an' so fain would lie doon."

6 "I think ye are poisoned, Lord Donald, my son,
I think ye are poisoned, my jolly young man,"
"O yes, I am poisoned; mother make my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the heart, an' so fain would lie doon."

7 "What will ye leave to your father, Lord Donald my son
What will ye leave to your father, my jolly young man?"
"My land and my horses, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the heart, an' so fain wad lie doon."

8 "What will ye leave to your mother, Lord Donald, my son?
What will ye leave to your mother, my jolly young man?"
My gold and my silver, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the heart, an' so I fain would lie doon."

9 "What will ye leave to your sister, Lord Donald, my son?
What will ye leave to your sister, my jolly young man?"
"My gold watch and gold chain, mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the heart, an' so fain would lie doon."

10 "What will ye leave to your sweetheart, Lord Donald, my son?
What will ye leave to your sweetheart, my jolly young man?"
"A tow an' the halter, that hangs on yon tree,
That's what she'll get for poisonin' me."


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 06:15 PM

floonery
A long shot but there is well-known Highland song by Dr. Norman McLeod called 'Farewell to Fiunary'. Among other places it is given by Ford in 'Vagabond Songs' p208. He states 'By virtue of use and wont, 'Fiunary' to the Western Highlander is just another name for home.'
However Aberdeenshire is on the opposite side of the country.


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 06:24 PM

Hi,

Thanks Steve, good info, there is flowery fields in a Stewart version but I haven't looked at the newer Scottish versions yet. I thought of the famous battle at "Flodden Field" near the Scot border which is somewhat similar.

This is Greig Duncan A (thanks for sending) and it's an Irish/Scotch version that was learned in Aberdeenshire which probably dates conservatively back to the late 1800s. It has only the "will" stanzas. The title, "Henry, my son" is still sung in Ireland-- the identifier is "my pretty one."

Henry, my Son- sung by James Matthew Brown and Miss Jeannie Brown, of Glasgow, learned in Aberdeenshire. Collected Duncan around 1907.

1 "What'll ye leave to your mother, Henry, my son,
What'll ye leave to your mother, my pretty one?"
"I leave her all my jewels, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm sick to the heart, and I fain wid lie doon,
For I'm sick to the heart, and I fain wid lie doon."

2 "What'll ye leave to your father, Henry, my son?
What'll ye leave to your father, my pretty one?"
"I leave him all my land, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm sick to the heart, and I fain wid lie doon."

3 "What'll ye leave to your brother, Henry, my son?
What'll ye leave to your brother, my pretty one?"
"I will leave him all my money, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm sick to the heart, and I fain wid lie doon."

4 "What'll ye leave to your sister, Henry, my son?
What will ye leave to your sister, my pretty one?"
"My gold watch and gold chain, mother, make my bed soon,
For I'm sick to the heart, and I fain wid lie doon."

5 "What'll ye leave to your sweetheart, Henry, my son?
What'll ye leave to your sweetheart, my pretty one?"
"The rope and the halter, that hangs on yon tree,
And it's there she shall die for poisonin' of me."

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 08:56 PM

Hi,

Here's Greig-Duncan C which was taken from Buchan singers. Single stanza with music.

C. "Oh Mak' My Bed Easy." Sung by George Riddell, shoemaker and fiddler from Rosehearty, Aberdeenshire. Collected Greig about 1907.

Oh mak' my bed easy
Oh mak' my bed soon
For oh but I'm weary
And fain wad lie doon.

* * * *

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 09:27 PM

Hi,

Greig-Duncan D, single stanza with music, was sung by Mrs. Lyall who also recorded for Carpenter. It's a middle stanza (cf. Alex Robb).

D. "Lord Ronald," sung by Mrs. A. Lyall (b. July 18, 1869) of Moss Croft, Lyne of Skene, Aberdeenshire. She got her ballads from her mother, Mrs Ella Roy, nee Florence. Ella Florence's father was a fiddler and singer.

"I doot[1] ye are poison'd, Lord Ronald, my son?
I doot ye are poison'd, my jolly young man?"
"Oh yes, I am poison'd, mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm sick at the heart and I fain wad lie doon."

_______________

1. fear


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Lighter
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 09:49 PM

My guess is that "floonery" is an error of some kind for the sensible "flooery."


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 09:56 PM

Hi,

Grieg-Duncan E is melody no text and F and G are single stanzas of very similar text with melody:

F. Lord Ronald- sung by Mrs. Margaret Gillespie (b. 1841), of New Deer, sister of Rev. Duncan.

"What had ye for supper, Lord Ronald, my son,
What had ye for supper, my jolly young man?"
"A plate o' black fishes, mother mak my bed soon,
For I'm weary wi huntin, an' fain wad lie doon."

G. Lord Ronald- sung by Beatrice Alexander of Uday

"What had ye for supper, Lord Donald, my son,
What had ye for supper, my jolly young man?"
"A plate o' black fishes, mother mak my bed soon,
For I'm weary weary wanderin, an' fain wad lie doon."


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Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
From: Richie
Date: 25 Jul 18 - 08:14 AM

Hi,

One of the earliest collected verses of the Irish-Scotch "pretty boy" versions appears in "Poems" by Mary Boddington, 1836, p. 313. She gives only one stanza and writes several more. According to Boddington:

"The first verse belongs to an old ballad, of which I could never find any more; the air, without being of remarkable beauty, is soft and characteristic: I do not know its Irish name."

"Oh, where were you all day?"
Irish--Air

"Oh, where were you all day,
My own pretty boy?
Oh, where were you all day,
My comfort and joy?
Fishing and fowling, mother: make my bed soon,
I've a pain in my heart, and I fain would lie down."

* * * *

Richie


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