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Closure of Folk Festivals

The Sandman 25 Apr 18 - 05:01 AM
Jack Campin 25 Apr 18 - 05:34 AM
Dave the Gnome 25 Apr 18 - 05:43 AM
GUEST,Morris-ey 25 Apr 18 - 06:06 AM
The Sandman 25 Apr 18 - 12:33 PM
punkfolkrocker 25 Apr 18 - 12:53 PM
GUEST,Morris-ey 25 Apr 18 - 01:27 PM
The Sandman 25 Apr 18 - 02:27 PM
Jack Campin 25 Apr 18 - 02:39 PM
David Carter (UK) 25 Apr 18 - 02:44 PM
The Sandman 25 Apr 18 - 02:45 PM
The Sandman 25 Apr 18 - 02:48 PM
GUEST,Observer 25 Apr 18 - 02:54 PM
The Sandman 25 Apr 18 - 03:05 PM
The Sandman 25 Apr 18 - 03:08 PM
The Sandman 25 Apr 18 - 03:08 PM
Acorn4 25 Apr 18 - 03:12 PM
The Sandman 25 Apr 18 - 03:14 PM
The Sandman 25 Apr 18 - 03:37 PM
GUEST,Simon Care 25 Apr 18 - 03:52 PM
The Sandman 25 Apr 18 - 03:57 PM
GUEST,Simon Care 25 Apr 18 - 03:59 PM
GUEST,Brenda 26 Apr 18 - 04:13 AM
The Sandman 26 Apr 18 - 04:50 AM
Mr Red 26 Apr 18 - 04:54 AM
Big Al Whittle 26 Apr 18 - 05:48 AM
Howard Jones 26 Apr 18 - 08:18 AM
The Sandman 26 Apr 18 - 08:43 AM
punkfolkrocker 26 Apr 18 - 09:25 AM
Howard Jones 26 Apr 18 - 02:13 PM
GUEST,akenaton 26 Apr 18 - 02:30 PM
Dave the Gnome 26 Apr 18 - 03:36 PM
punkfolkrocker 26 Apr 18 - 03:44 PM
Dave the Gnome 26 Apr 18 - 04:16 PM
GUEST,Joe G 26 Apr 18 - 04:17 PM
The Sandman 26 Apr 18 - 06:24 PM
The Sandman 26 Apr 18 - 06:27 PM
GUEST 27 Apr 18 - 03:14 AM
GUEST,Akenaton. 27 Apr 18 - 03:15 AM
Mr Red 27 Apr 18 - 03:25 AM
Dave the Gnome 27 Apr 18 - 03:43 AM
Rob Naylor 27 Apr 18 - 04:16 AM
The Sandman 27 Apr 18 - 04:22 AM
Rob Naylor 27 Apr 18 - 04:30 AM
punkfolkrocker 27 Apr 18 - 06:10 AM
Howard Jones 27 Apr 18 - 07:24 AM
Tattie Bogle 27 Apr 18 - 07:50 AM
Johnny J 27 Apr 18 - 08:19 AM
Johnny J 27 Apr 18 - 08:32 AM
Dave the Gnome 27 Apr 18 - 08:58 AM
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Subject: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 05:01 AM

Beverley has closed and Alcester has closed.
The closure of Beverley is reminiscent of the closure of Pickering a few years ago, is this the result of business entrepreneurs trying to make a quick buck?
Perhaps, the UK Folk Revival, needs to give more support and realise the importance of the enthusiast who runs the weekly guest folk club, who is running a community based operation.
And at the same time be more wary of trusting entrepreneurs who take over what had previously been an established well run Festival,I suspect many unfortunate people had been duped not realising the management had changed at Beverley Folk Festival, as there was no change of name.


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 05:34 AM

Those are both rather small and remote places - there is no way a major festival somewhere like that could be an outgrowth of the local community, let alone the local folk club.

Does Whitby Folk Club take any part in organizing Whitby Folk Week? In several years of going I've seen nothing to suggest it. It's really a Bradford and Sheffield Folk Week that uses Whitby as a venue. Nothing wrong with that, but the event doesn't stand or fall with the fortunes of the local folk club.


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 05:43 AM

In answer to your question, Dick, I do not believe Beverley was closed due to 'business entrepreneurs trying to make a quick buck'. There is an ongoing thread about it and I believe that was explained on there.

I don't know about Pickering.


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: GUEST,Morris-ey
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 06:06 AM

One problem, I believe, is that the number of folk festivals has grown to such an extent that the market is saturated and for the smaller events even to break even requires some comparatively hefty subsidy or sponsorship - lose that and the event is no longer viable. The demise of a Folk Festival is almost never to do with rapacious "entrepreneurs" or people being "duped".

I don't know who the "UK Folk Revival" is nor how to contact it for support.


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 12:33 PM

Morrisey, perhaps you should investigate Pickering folk festival and look further into Beverley and the fact that IT HAS BEEN STATED they had a debt from last year, What ever themotives of the organisers it appears, as i understand it that people paid for tickets and have not been refunded and booked performers have not been paid.
Morrisey, do you think this is morally right?
and might i suggest that instead of having a go at me for accidentally starting two threads on the same subject, that you should be more concerned about performers who have lost work and potential income and customers who have bought festival tickets and who have lost their money ,you need to get your priorities right , or do you have some personal agenda against me?


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 12:53 PM

Not a folk festival..
but I just read that Bristol Totterdown community street festival has been closed down by the Police...

Why police have pulled the plug on the Totterdown Music Festival


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: GUEST,Morris-ey
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 01:27 PM

Dick

My issue is that you have a monochrome view of the world where any festival that fails is due to money-grabbers, rip-off merchants, and crooks.

Are you saying that the organisers of Beverley are crooks? Are you saying the same about Pickering?

If so, I suggest you tell the Police of the evidence you have.

While we are here, you have said that if your festival failed you would reimburse everyone form your own funds -can you prove that you have sufficient funds to do so and is that promise in the terms and conditions of sale of tickets?


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 02:27 PM

"Does Whitby Folk Club take any part in organizing Whitby Folk Week? In several years of going I've seen nothing to suggest it"
Whitby Folk club did used to be part of the whitby folk festival, Jack I was going there in 1976 and was booked throughout the 1980s and again occasionally in the nineties, and Iremember clearly that it was part of the festival.
Jack, you see you are wrong in your statement , I will give you the example of Towersey village festival, this festival was started by denis manners[ a socialist] and was a community based village festival[ hence its name] that grew gradually in to the present Towersey festival.
Then we have festivals such as Sidmouth.. founded by the EFDSS
Sidmouth Festival was founded as a folk dance festival in 1955 by the English Folk Dance and Song Society (EFDSS), but gradually expanded to cover ceilidh dancing, music and song, as well as related folk crafts.[2] Over time, the scope also broadened to include performers from abroad, and the festival was renamed the Sidmouth International Folklore Festival.
Jck Campin the reasons the festivals were started by EFDSS ARE STATED BELOW, they were not intened originally as commercial exrcises money making was not number one priority, they slowly evolved and grew
The English Folk Dance and Song Society (EFDSS, or pronounced 'EFF-diss'[1]) was formed in 1932 when two organisations merged: the Folk-Song Society and the English Folk Dance Society.[2] The EFDSS, a member-based organisation, was incorporated as a company limited by guarantee (no. 297142) in 1935 and became a registered charity (no. 305999) in England and Wales in 1963.

The Folk-Song Society, founded in London in 1898,[3] focused on collecting and publishing, primarily folk songs of Britain and Ireland although there was no formal limitation. Participants included Lucy Broadwood, Kate Lee, Cecil Sharp, Percy Grainger, Ralph Vaughan Williams, George Butterworth, George Barnet Gardiner,[4] Henry Hammond, Anne Gilchrist and Ella Leather.[5]

The English Folk Dance Society was founded in 1911 by Cecil Sharp. Maud Karpeles was a leading participant. Its purpose was to preserve and promote English folk dances in their traditional forms, including Morris and sword dances, traditional social dances, and interpretations of the dances published by John Playford.

One of the greatest contributions that the EFDSS made to the folk movement, both dance and song, was the folk festival, starting with the Stratford-upon-Avon Festival in the 1940s and later festivals in Whitby, Sidmouth, Holmfirth, Chippenham and elsewhere.
PLEASE NOTE
Its purpose was to preserve and promote English folk dances in their traditional forms, including Morris and sword dances, traditional social dances, and interpretations of the dances published by John Playford.


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 02:39 PM

You missed the point I was making. I was saying that a local folk club makes no difference to the continued existence of a large festival in the same area - it will always be run by people who have nothing to do with the club. So supporting the club won't help the festival.


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 02:44 PM

Dick doesn't need to provide evidence, the evidence is held at Companies House, and some of it has been placed in the public domain on the other thread. Trading while insolvent is actually a criminal offence, but it is unlikely that the police will be involved, if the liquidator thinks that this has happened they will file a report with the Department of Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, who will take it through the courts if this is justified. The outcome may be that the Directors are disqualified from acting as company directors, which probably won't matter to them, and that they may be held personally liable for some or all of the company's debts, which will.


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 02:45 PM

Morrissey, I have all the money required to pay everybody, I do not have to prove anything, but i can assure you that after my event, I will be asking for an apology for your impertinence.,
it is not me, but the organisers of Beverley festival that have collected money and not yet refunded it, it is the organisers of Beverley festival that have cancelled performers and as far as i know not paid them.


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 02:48 PM

there is a thread about pickering and here is one of the posts of many
Subject: RE: Pickering Folk Festival: Tickets Online
From: GUEST,julie - PM
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 11:47 AM

Having waited for the rearranged folk festival to occur in May and then August 2009, I have recently discovered that the event has again been cancelled. Upto now I have not tried to claim a refund (paid via a debit card for 2 tickets + camping). I have read the many mails and links and would ideally like to attempt to try and claim my money back now, but think it is too too late. Any ideas and who do i write to ?? is the Events and Exhibitions Ltd in Leeds address (on a correspondence from last December any use?) Do trading standards respond. It looks like i will have to write this one off?


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 02:54 PM

a local folk club makes no difference to the continued existence of a large festival in the same area - it will always be run by people who have nothing to do with the club. So supporting the club won't help the festival.

An exception. Irvine's Marymass Folk Festival now in its 51 year as part of the town's Community Marymass Festival. The Folk Festival is organised, and run entirely by the Irvine Folk Club. Over the years things have changed and the Club has modified the shape and duration of their folk festival to accommodate those changes (Started off as being one week long, then gradually shortened in. It now only runs over three days) largely brought about by reduction in sponsorship. It used to be a festival where "folk music" was played, but over the years it has the music has become more eclectic this change no doubt brought about by changing tastes and preferences (Irvine Folk Club appears to be very well supported and they, unlike many, book many different styles of Guest artists throughout the course of the year).


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 03:05 PM

I am saying that the organisers of Beverley have collected festival ticket money and have not refunded it and that Beverley organisers have cancelled all guest artists and as far as i know have not paid them, is that morally right Morrissey?
I am also saying that the Pickering organisers went to the wall and as far as i know have still not refunded everybody, is that morally right Morrissey.


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 03:08 PM

Breaking News: BEVERLEY FOLK FESTIVAL CANCELLED

It is with immense sadness and regret that we have to announce that this year’s festival cannot go ahead.

Beverley Folk Festival is a non-profit-making organisation, run by a dedicated team of volunteers. Unfortunately we have recently discovered that we have lost our primary source of funding so we simply do not have the money to pay for either the infrastructure or the performers.We know that there will be a lot of people who are as disappointed as we are but we hope you will understand that, under the circumstances in which we find ourselves, it is not possible to run the event.

Unfortunately the company is unable to refund those people who have bought tickets in advance of the festival.

The directors, who are also volunteers, have taken the steps to place the company into a creditors’ voluntary liquidation as the company is insolvent. The directors have instructed a firm of licensed insolvency practitioners to assist them with this process and if you are owed money or have bought a ticket in advance then they will be in touch with you shortly.

If you have made a deposit for or paid for goods or services by credit or debit card and the goods or services are not going to be received by the due date, you may be able to get your money back by claiming a refund from your card issuer. Please contact your card issuer as soon as you can if this may apply to you. Further information including on time limits that apply is available from the UK Cards Association Credit and Debit Cards: A consumer guide

The directors would like to thank all those who have supported Beverley Folk Festival over the years, especially the sponsors, funders, East Riding of Yorkshire Council, Beverley Town Council and the hundreds of wonderful volunteers and artists.

In addition, whilst thanking the thousands of loyal festival-goers who have made the event a joy, the directors also offer their deepest and most sincere apologies to all those who are owed money by the company.

This has been an incredibly difficult and heart-breaking decision for all involved. However, the directors acknowledge that for almost 35 years Beverley Folk Festival has brought something special to the town, which was loved and enjoyed by so many people from far and wide.

Please note that the company has ceased to trade with immediate effect and any voicemail / messages will not be read or dealt with.

Our corporate recovery licensed insolvency practitioners:

Redman Nichols Butler, The Chapel, Bridge Street, Driffield, East Yorkshire, YO25 5DA Tel: 01377 257788

Simon Care: 23rd Apr 2018 11:22:00",
   So is it true that Simon Care was involved as an organiser?


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 03:08 PM

Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (PickeringUK)
From: GUEST,OldNicKilby - PM
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 05:05 AM

I have done many of this organisers Model Engineering and Wood Shows and every one has been really well run with great staff and the RIGHT attitude. I think that we can be sure that Simon will do his very best to make sure that this event will be a cracker. The venue is new clean and light and has a really good feel to it.
I reckon that this could end up being a very proper do.


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: Acorn4
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 03:12 PM

One of the problems is the fact that many of the organisers are getting into their seventies and there is a lack of younger volunteers willing to take things on.


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 03:14 PM

So was Simon Care involved in either Pickering or Beverley?
or is the Simon mentioned in the 2008 Pickering above, somebody else completely, these are questions, it may be that Simon Cares name on the Beverley Festival statement is a mistake, and it may be that the Pickering organiser who appears to be called Simon was completely different were completely different


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 03:37 PM

Is Simon Care who appears to have put his name at the bootom of a statement regarding Beverley festival have any connection to any other Simon Care, there appears to be an organiser called SimonCare who is involved with Bromyard festival, is this a different person? these are questions not accusations , it may be a complete coinicidence


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: GUEST,Simon Care
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 03:52 PM

Hi Guys,

Simon Care here. Just to clear up any confusion. I have not, and never had any connection to Beverley Festival. I am the membership secretary for the Association of Festival Organisers, and we were asked to share the news that Beverley Folk Festival had ceased trading to our members. The reason my name is at the bottom of the news item is because i shared the news item on our website.

I would be very grateful if you could remove any comments that might lead people to believe that i have, or have ever had, any involvement with Beverley Festival

Kind regards
Simon Care


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 03:57 PM

Simon, I was asking for clarification, I am pleased that you are nothing whatsoever to do with Beverley Festival.
The wording on the statement was unclear,I thought it was unlikely to be you, but in print it looked as if there was a connection
please accept my apologies


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: GUEST,Simon Care
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 03:59 PM

No need for apology.
Take care
Simon


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: GUEST,Brenda
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 04:13 AM

Just to clarify a point. Alcester folk festival was never run by a big committee but manfully run by Marj Stanley and the only reason she has had to give up is because the camping field has been sold and some of the venues have also closed down. Not being able to find replacements she has regrettably had to throw in the towel.


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 04:50 AM

Marj Stanley did a good job.
The problem lies with festival such as Pickering and Beverley, that took and have taken money from customers, and have not refunded. that is immoral.
I understand Alcesters problem with venues, The Festival that I organise has lost a venue resulting in reduced sponsorship, that i had not anticipated, however IF NECESSARY i will have to cover that myself.    2017 Alcester was charging 55.00, 2018 Beverley was over 100.
Has there been any statement regarding refunding., from Alcester.
In my experience as an organiser the major up front payments are Festival insurance.


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 04:54 AM

Sidmouth does not make money per se. It does pay people to do things, AFAIK like ticketing.

Steve Heap mortgaged his house to pay off debts for the year it was rained on heavily. Had his business acumen not paid off he would not have been recompensed. I didn't go in the years he had control of it because of misgivings about the business model. But I support it now, and ironically (now) Towersey festival which is moving away from folk, so much so that the headline artists masquerading as folk (because their pop career has dried up) are paid individually more than ALL the dance bands for the whole festival. If Jordy is reading this, be assured, when the dance bands are neglected I can easily neglect the festival.

There you have a clue to the demise of festivals. If they serve a market niche, they need to continue serving that niche. And rely on that niche surviving. And be alive to other nice niches that can be served as a back-up to the demise of others.

FWIW I happen to know that Upton upon Severn FF 4-7 May & "not for profit" survives on the goodwill of the committee, and the town. See ya there.


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 05:48 AM

Really theres two sorts of folk festivals - the ones that are about booking big name guests, and ones that are a sort of community effort.

The second type has to reflect what the locals want, and generally it depends on strong minded local individuals who pragmatically do what they can.

The first type has got kudos for those artists deemed important enough to rate one of these prestige bookings. But in a way its a symbiotic thing. Really it depends on how active those artists and their agents/record companies are. I think it behoves them to at least mention the gig on their gig listing, maybe for the less popular artists - e-mailing a press kit to local press and folk programmes, if there are any left. Costs nothing except the effort these days. No postage costs etc as there used to be. If you have a following - they shoulsd at least have the option not to come.


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: Howard Jones
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 08:18 AM

Is anyone, anywhere actually making a quick buck from running a folk festival?


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 08:43 AM

that is not the point Howard, the point is that two festivals have closed, Pickering and Beverley, owing money to customers and cancelling guest artists, it appears Beverley owed a debt from the previous year, should they have cancelled the festival after 2017,instead of taking customers money for season tickets? if they were in debt,
Howard how would you feel if you had paid 130 and lost your money?Howard it may be in the caso of Pickering that the organiser thought he could make money[ or as you put it make a quick buck, who knows . The fact is cuistomers who bought season or festival tickets were not refunded, is that morally right,Howard?


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 09:25 AM

I think a point worth making is, there seems to be a pattern of minor localised commercialised 'community' festivals springing up
that fail to reappear in following years...

The one's I've noticed in my area book hopeless hasbeen pop acts, and covers bands,
then look stupid promoting them in the local papers
as exciting famous chart topping pop/rock/folk acts..
These festivals are a joke...

Prebook ticket prices are just silly amounts... especially the 'VIP' packages...

Another one has had to call it off this year after problems with venues..
Don't know how they are dealing with refunds because frankly I don't care, and wish they'd stop and go away for ever...

Genuinely good local community music events in parks here used to be excellent,
giving opportunities for local bands and solo singers to perform on real stages with good PAs.
But Council funding was cut as tory austerity bit in, [and the park toilets closed down...]
and now there's nothing but these poxy wannabe promoter's festivals of hoplessness..


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: Howard Jones
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 02:13 PM

I don't know the exact circumstances around Beverley, but if they had reasonable expectations of receiving sponsorship which would have allowed them to meet their debts then they were not acting irresponsibly in planning another festival. Presumably the racecourse, having apparently not been paid for last year, would not have accepted their booking for this year unless they thought the money would be there.

Yes of course it's unfortunate that people who have paid for tickets will not be refunded, but once a company goes into liquidation it's out of the directors' hands, and any assets have to be distributed between all the creditors in accordance with insolvency law.

Is it morally right that volunteer organisers who devote their time to putting on a festival for nothing more than the love of it should face financial ruin if things go wrong? The festival owes tens of thousands, and why should ticket holders be any more entitled to a refund than other creditors? Yes, I would be disappointed if I had paid for a ticket and lost that money, but I would be more disappointed if the organisers were to lose their homes as as result.

None of this, so far as I can see, is due to anyone trying to make a "quick buck" as you put it, and I'd again ask if anyone is managing to make a quick buck from running folk festivals? I very much doubt it, most seem to be run by hard-working volunteers for little or no reward.


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 02:30 PM

The reason "folk" is on the wane, is that it has reached the depths of very bad and very boring pop music.
There is little inspiration and no presentation, I listened to the folk programme on BBC radio last night and it was frighteningly bad.
Fusion of musical styles, the all pervasive introspection in the new writing, warbling tuneless voices singing about nothing in particular.
No Balls, no inspiration, no participation!.....Folk music is supposed to bring people together, to inspire, to make them FEEL something.......I fear the music is beyond help in this country.


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 03:36 PM

Oh, ffs. It is coming to something when even old fogeys on Mudcat are complaining that folk isn't like it was in the good old days. There are times I think I have opened a Monty Python sketch!


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 03:44 PM

DtG - if you look at Heavy Metal [or Djent as some kids call it's modern version] websites..

You'll see 14 year old metal headz moaning it's not as good now as it was in their youth 2 weeks ago...!!!


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 04:16 PM

:-D


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 04:17 PM

Interestingly I thought it was one of tgebest Radio 2 Folk Programmes for a while. Young Uns, Calan, The Turbans to mention just three excellent bands


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 06:24 PM

Howard, I have not said anything about making a quick buck in this thread.
ticket holders are morally entitled to a refund if you think otherwise you are without morals


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 06:27 PM

Howrd I cannot find any posts where I used those words, you owe me an apology.


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 03:14 AM

I think you have made your personal preferences clear Joe, but that does not address the on going demise of folk music.
I feel ordinary people(not the members of an elite little club)are thoroughly bored by what is presently produced and served up as folk music.
The pop process is in fact producing a lot of much better material.
and better performers.....Bands like Ardcade Fire and performers /writers like Adele.....are more "Folk" than folk.

Nice to see you Dave, but you may find it more difficult to indulge your interests in this section.


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: GUEST,Akenaton.
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 03:15 AM

Last post by me


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: Mr Red
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 03:25 AM

It is the job of old fogies to complain how it is not like it was.

In fact the complaints about it not being as good as it was........... are












not as good as they used to be when I was part of that movement when it really was the good old days (despite what the old fogies were saying about us then)

Tradition eh? What is it like?


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 03:43 AM

Nostalgia ain't what it used to be. Even the arguments are not as good as in the old days :-)

There is no demise of folk music. There may be an evolution or shift in perception but folk music has, is and always will be with us. It is only the idea of what folk music was or should be that is affected and that is a purely personal view.

This thread is about the closure of folk festivals though so a sortee into the realms of what is folk is probably the wrong direction for it.


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 04:16 AM

Sandman: Howard, I have not said anything about making a quick buck in this thread.

Er, I think you did, right at the top of the thread:


Sandman: Beverley has closed and Alcester has closed.
The closure of Beverley is reminiscent of the closure of Pickering a few years ago, is this the result of business entrepreneurs trying to make a quick buck?


So:

Sandman: Howrd I cannot find any posts where I used those words, you owe me an apology.

Nope, I don't think he does.


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 04:22 AM

It was a question not a statement, do you not understand the difference a question is an attempt to discuss, a statement is presenting it as a fact.
I asked a question.


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 04:30 AM

Back on the actual topic:

Yes, festivals are closing, but new ones are also opening. I spent some time late last year approaching festivals just in the south-west of the UK (basically Devon, Dorset, Somerset and parts of Cornwall)on behalf of a friend who was looking to perform at some of them. I was amazed at how many there are in just that small corner of the UK. Many of them are very local, and "not for profit". Several (like Bridport, now in its second year, and only a stone's throw from Sidmouth)are run in support of a named local charity (Air Ambulance in the case of Bridport).

One reason for some failing may in fact be the sheer number running now. On any one summer weekend that I looked at over those 4 counties, there were likely to be between 3-6 festivals labelling themselves as folk festivals, or incorporating significant "folky" elements. Many appear to be run on a shoestring, and teeter on the edge of viability. Those relying on a main sponsor or significant grant funding are definitely exposed financially, given how quickly and ruthlessly funding bodies can change their priorities.


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 06:10 AM

RIP Burnham on sea Folk Fest...

That was one festival I made special effort to attend over the years it ran
[ok - a bonus having family and a free place to kip near the town..]

Very well run free festival, across several pubs & clubs in town, in the street, and the park.
Nothing at all pretentious or gratingly alternative hippy upper middle class
[like some other SW folk fests...]

A damn good fun weekend of very varied folk[ish] music and activities...

Closed down a couple of years ago while it was still seemingly on top..
The official reason given was if I recall,
less funding available to maintain the quality,
but most significantly, the volunteer organizers were getting older and exhausted running it...


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: Howard Jones
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 07:24 AM

Dick, with respect your very first post which started this thread said:

Subject: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: The Sandman - PM
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 05:01 AM

Beverley has closed and Alcester has closed.
The closure of Beverley is reminiscent of the closure of Pickering a few years ago, is this the result of business entrepreneurs trying to make a quick buck?

Be that as it may, I think the problem is that some festivals get caught up in a vicious circle where they feel that they have to become bigger and better to compete with other festivals so the costs rise, so they have to spend even more to bring in more paying visitors. And, without implying criticism of any individuals whether at Beverley or elsewhere, they are often being run in their spare time by people who perhaps don't have much other experience of running a business. The other problem is that they are often far too dependent on external funding as ticket sales aren't sufficient, which makes them vulnerable.

On the other hand, there is no shortage of folk festivals of all sizes and many seem to be running successfully. It is disappointing for all concerned when one fails, especially for those who will lose money, but overall the festival scene looks fairly healthy.


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 07:50 AM

Yes, festivals come and festivals go.
Here in Scotland, the majority are run by unpaid volunteers.
Some enjoy the benefit of local business sponsorship or Council grants, but none of these sources can be relied upon to go on for ever.
Some have died because of "fallings out" of one sort or another (e.g.disagreements, or just people wanting to hand on the job of organising, but no-one to take it on.)
Some have down-sized considerably to continue as lower budget gatherings.
And some have been re-incarnated, e.g Killin Festival: Ceilidh Culture, followed by Tradfest in Edinburgh, after a longish gap after the former Edinburgh Folk Festival had its demise.
A good number are organised by folk clubs, others are not.


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: Johnny J
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 08:19 AM

I could tell stories about several now defunct festivals but much of the information would be based on gossip. Also, it would be unfair to revisit their woes here.

However, I'd suggest issues arise when festivals grow too big and too quickly and the correct machinery and "checks" aren't properly in place. There shouldn't really be an excuse for getting into a position where creditors are disadvantaged whether they be ticket customers, musicians, venues, or whoever. The list could go on.

Before moving to the next stage, organisers should be sure that they have sufficient funding or will have to cover all their outlays. If in doubt, do nowt.

The majority of festivals which cease to function do so with the organisers still able to holfd their heads high. Unfortunately, there have been one or two exceptions over the years.


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: Johnny J
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 08:32 AM

Further re the "local folk club"..

In Scotland, the majority of festivals are run by volunteers as TB suggests but not necessarily by the local club or even local enthusiasts.

That's not to say they aren't "au fait" with the local area and music, of course. They may be based in nearby towns or connected with a particular genre of music, have specialist skills and so on.

For instance, much of the organisation of Girvan Folk Festival over the years was by members of Kilmarnock Folk Club although local folkies have also been involved too.

The Trad on The Tyne festival was actually organised by The Haddington Pipe Band but it was by no means a piping Festival.

I believe Newcastleton now has a folk club and their organisers "may"(?) have some input but it was originally started by the local fiddle and accordion club. However, various people and factions have been involved in its organisation over the years from the locality itself and further afield.
I could think of other examples.


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Subject: RE: Closure of Folk Festivals
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 08:58 AM

At Swinton we always ran within the budget of funding. Ticket sales were a minor part of the budget and an added bonus. When we got fed up of jumping through the funding hoops we dropped it to a low key festival in the club and when 2 of the three organisers left for pastures new someone else took up the baton. I don't think it runs any more but that had nothing to do with commercialism.


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