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BS: Trump Enemies List

akenaton 07 Feb 17 - 04:53 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Feb 17 - 03:59 PM
DMcG 07 Feb 17 - 03:37 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Feb 17 - 03:22 PM
DMcG 07 Feb 17 - 02:56 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Feb 17 - 02:55 PM
Stu 07 Feb 17 - 02:40 PM
akenaton 07 Feb 17 - 02:34 PM
Helen 07 Feb 17 - 02:24 PM
Dave the Gnome 07 Feb 17 - 02:00 PM
akenaton 07 Feb 17 - 01:50 PM
Stu 07 Feb 17 - 12:02 PM
Mr Red 07 Feb 17 - 11:47 AM
Steve Shaw 07 Feb 17 - 09:50 AM
Teribus 07 Feb 17 - 09:44 AM
Greg F. 07 Feb 17 - 09:35 AM
Senoufou 07 Feb 17 - 07:24 AM
David Carter (UK) 07 Feb 17 - 07:12 AM
Stu 07 Feb 17 - 06:48 AM
DMcG 07 Feb 17 - 06:35 AM
akenaton 07 Feb 17 - 06:04 AM
David Carter (UK) 07 Feb 17 - 04:45 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Feb 17 - 04:08 AM
DMcG 07 Feb 17 - 03:50 AM
Mr Red 07 Feb 17 - 03:45 AM
Teribus 07 Feb 17 - 03:30 AM
Helen 07 Feb 17 - 12:09 AM
Steve Shaw 06 Feb 17 - 07:29 PM
Greg F. 06 Feb 17 - 06:41 PM
Steve Shaw 06 Feb 17 - 06:35 PM
Greg F. 06 Feb 17 - 05:30 PM
Donuel 06 Feb 17 - 03:54 PM
akenaton 06 Feb 17 - 03:31 PM
Greg F. 06 Feb 17 - 01:05 PM
Steve Shaw 06 Feb 17 - 12:30 PM
akenaton 06 Feb 17 - 12:20 PM
Steve Shaw 06 Feb 17 - 11:45 AM
akenaton 06 Feb 17 - 11:31 AM
Stu 06 Feb 17 - 09:57 AM
DMcG 06 Feb 17 - 09:28 AM
DMcG 06 Feb 17 - 09:26 AM
Steve Shaw 06 Feb 17 - 09:25 AM
Stu 06 Feb 17 - 09:14 AM
Steve Shaw 06 Feb 17 - 07:12 AM
gillymor 06 Feb 17 - 07:04 AM
Senoufou 06 Feb 17 - 05:43 AM
Steve Shaw 06 Feb 17 - 05:21 AM
akenaton 06 Feb 17 - 03:26 AM
Helen 05 Feb 17 - 03:45 PM
Donuel 05 Feb 17 - 11:20 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 04:53 PM

D, It is said that Bercow will be leaving his post next year, it is also said that he is keen to raise his profile for another career in the media; this may account for his overly dramatic outburst.

At the moment of course it is all about opinions.

In my personal view the whole hysterical scene is a response to an ideology being rejected by a large section of the population and the inability of those who cling to that ideology to come to terms with that fact.
For the last few decades society has shifted markedly towards a socially "liberal" perspective throwing up(if you will pardon the expression) massive social problems at a time when our economy is under intense pressure. The people I mention are going to HAVE to come to terms with a re-calibration of society pretty quickly...as I have said on several occasions, they are not going to like it, but it is inevitable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 03:59 PM

I find it odd that MPs should feel morally obliged to connive in the result of an advisory referendum that was preceded by an immoral campaign and which was improperly set up. The majority may have voted to have a referendum but they didn't vote to have such a shameful, undemocratic campaign.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: DMcG
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 03:37 PM

I take that point, Steve, but it is not quite parallel to the Speaker case. Many of these MPs were torn between their view and the referendum result. They may have felt leaving was worse, but they also believed the referendum made them morally - though not legally - bound to do so. Again, we may both disagree with that, but I can at least understand that position.

But the Speaker is different. He knows we have voted to start Article 50 and, as you said on another thread, short of an earthquake it is hard to see any way that will not happen. So there wil be a need to make a deal of some kind with Trump. I don't see the Speaker taking a course he knows will make that more difficult out of anger at being on the losing side.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 03:22 PM

Well, DMcG, the vast majority of MPs voted last week for a course they thought was worse for the country than staying in the EU. Ken Clarke and the Labour rebels voted for what they knew was best for the country. All the other remain MPs were duped by talk of "democracy" and "the will of the people." Spineless.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: DMcG
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 02:56 PM

It is a pretty serious accusation to say a politician is deliberately trying to make Britain's options worse. We may disagree about which of various routes is best, but to suggest he is rejecting the one he thinks is best to take one he believes to be worse is quite a claim.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 02:55 PM

She had no mandate to carry out brexit "without interference." The referendum result was not in any way, shape or form a "mandate." The High Court and Supreme Court confirmed that spite of MOANERS in the form of Farage, May and the Daily Mail. It took a businesswoman, who is now getting death and rape threats, to rein in the arrogant sods who thought they could override the rule of law. And what a waste of our money it all was. Government by twat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Stu
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 02:40 PM

Get over it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 02:34 PM

Bercow is supposed to be politically neutral, he could have discussed his views with Mrs May and Lord Fowler in private.
Instead his outburst was designed to gain the greatest possible publicity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Helen
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 02:24 PM

GregF,

Thanks for sharing your Granddad's advice. It's right on the money, in my opinion. I think I'll print it and hang it above my desk at work as well.

Helen


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 02:00 PM

Mrs May should have reserved the right to carry out Brexit without interference

And broken the very laws that the brexiteers went to great pains to say were being eroded? What a hypocrite.

May has as much right to carry out brexit withhout the consent of parliament as you have to show your arse in the butchers window. It is possible but breaks existing laws. As well as offending any decent person.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 01:50 PM

I suspect that Bercow's outburst was more to do with the Brexit negotiations than any liberal sentiments that he might hold.
Making sure that the UK is not viewed positively by President Trump would make a good trade deal less likely and would give the careerist remoaners in parliament more leverage.

As leader of the UK government Mrs May should have reserved the right to carry out Brexit without interference (she has the mandate of the EU referendum result) and as such can claim to speak for the British people.

The government team are dealing with unscrupulous individuals who are at best unwilling to accept the democratic decision of the UK electorate and at worst, willing to sabotage the Exit negotiations to protect a severely flawed ideology as well as a corrupt and dysfunctional Union.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Stu
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 12:02 PM

Oh no! Trump could speak to a room full of unelected toffs, Tory/Lab/LibDum shills, tosspot aristocracy, irrelevant bishops and other religious types, rich party donors, wankers.

He'd be right at home with that bag of bollocks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Mr Red
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 11:47 AM

Good for Bercow.

Unfortunately <NOMINATIVE DETERMANISM ALERT> Norman Fowler has said he would consider any request for a person to speak to Parliament. Guardian article


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 09:50 AM

How would you know about "folk music," Teribus? Going from your posting history, it doesn't seem to interest you much...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Teribus
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 09:44 AM

Obviously Greg F has trouble answering simple and direct questions.

Did get this from Jom though:

THESE - Link - no mention of thousands of foreign troops in Libya. Carroll you would not recognise a documented fact if it jumped up and bit you.

OFTEN FORGOTTEN FACTS ABOUT THE CONFLICT - Link - according to your link the last time "weapons" were sold to Libya by the UK was in 1985.

AND the BEAT GOES ON - Link - tell us all Jom what countries will ISIL be taking over of the ones mentioned in your link. Currently they are running for their lives (Literally) and being picked off in droves.

No need at all responding, your pals will be along soon to talk of pretentious crap masquerading as "folk music", walks in the Yorkshire Dales, possibly it might stretch to a discussion on beer, or cheese or wild flowers - anything in short to disguise the fact that they are clueless when challenged on the topic in question.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 09:35 AM

Greg F which Nations

Do look it up, T - the information is readily available.

I'm trying to follow my granddad's advice: "Never get in a pissing contest with a skunk".


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Senoufou
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 07:24 AM

I too was very pleased indeed with Bercow's decision,and he expressed it quite firmly and determinedly.

I also never had much time for him in the past (and his wife is a bit iffy in my opinion) but my goodness he's come up Trumps now! :)

It's said it's embarrassing for May not invite him to speak to the House, but imagine the embarrassment if half the Members refused to attend, or booed every time he opened his mouth. Better for him to keep away.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 07:12 AM

Bercow, lest we forget, before he was the Speaker, he was a Tory. One of the reasons I didn't have much time for him before.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Stu
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 06:48 AM

"Does democracy really exist at all, or is just one out of the basket of myths which we have been fed over the last few decades?"

The rule of law is paramount; it holds us ALL to account regardless and our politicians make the laws and are bound by them.

The Speaker has the responsibility of protecting the integrity of parliament, and he acted fun the best interests of parliament. We're not quite a US arse limpet again yet, but if you're interested in democracy (you're not) then at least making it look like we can make our own decisions and are strong enough to stand by them is a start. Excluding racist and misogynist tosspots IS a start.

Get over it brownshirtflake.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: DMcG
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 06:35 AM

"Does democracy exist" is a complicated question. Since we are forever told the UK is a democracy it is easy to assume it is, but in actuality it is a more elaborate object than that where parts of the system are democratic - primarily the commons - but others, like the House of Lords and the judiciary, are not. Then, while the House of Commons is democratic in one sense, our democracy is significantly different to say the US, France, Germany, Sweden ... Not to mention Scotland, Ireland and Wales.

Then of course MPs are, deliberately, enjoined to act as they think in the best interests of the country, not to do whatever their constituents think.

And so to the Speaker: his main role is to protect the status of the House of Commons as he sees it. It is not to side with or against the government or the wider parties. Nor to do what the general population may or may not indicate by referendums or petitions or letters to The Times. If it his judgement that having certain views expressed would lower the status of Parliament he has a responsibility to stop that. And it is his view: if other speakers came to different views, or he judged things differently on another occasion it simply means he weighed the factors differently. People are granted leave to speak or not: such binary results are not good for revealing whether the decision was agonised over or not.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 06:04 AM

That's the trouble with "liberals" like Mr Bercow, before long they start showing their true illiberal colours.....power corrupts.

So its to be government by Judiciary and government by the Speaker.

Does democracy really exist at all, or is just one out of the basket of myths which we have been fed over the last few decades?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 04:45 AM

Good for Bercow. Never thought much of him before, but he has gone way up in my estimation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 04:08 AM

which Nations ".... sent thousands of troops to the INTERNATIONAL intervention in Libya."??
THESE - not that you are interested in documented facts!
OFTEN FORGOTTEN FACTS ABOUT THE CONFLICT
AND the BEAT GOES ON
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: DMcG
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 03:50 AM

Well, as petitions are in vogue I thought I might start one:
====
I've made a petition – will you sign it?
Click this link to sign the petition:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/183495/sponsors/NNtoFqgSujFBhAPeFY9A
My petition:
Congratulate the Speaker on upholding opposition to racism and sexism
This petition calls on Parliament to affirm the Speaker was correct in affirming attitudes to racism and sexism are important factors in deciding who should be permitted to address the house.
====
Pity I used 'affirm' twice, but there you are.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Mr Red
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 03:45 AM

Dyslexics untie - don't get all twisted up. Stick with the issue not the issuer.
It winds them up if they can't get a reaction!


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Teribus
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 03:30 AM

Greg F which Nations ".... sent thousands of troops to the INTERNATIONAL intervention in Libya."??


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Helen
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 12:09 AM

Thanks for coming to my defence, Donuel. Dyslexics unite! Yay!

I decided to just ignore the repetitive, monotonous strains of akenaton's whining, but I am still reading the thread.

Helen


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Feb 17 - 07:29 PM

For now anyway, Greg!


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Feb 17 - 06:41 PM

Anyone with a functioning brain is ipso facto on Twitler's Enemies List.

But Bercow?- now THERE'S a MENSCH!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Feb 17 - 06:35 PM

Reckon we can add John Bercow to Trump's enemy list. Big bad John! 👍🏼🍻👏


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Feb 17 - 05:30 PM

That's all just dandy, Ake. Now can you answer, or at least address, the question?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Feb 17 - 03:54 PM

Ake, Martin Gibson or whoever you want to be, A list of your right wing websites would tell us who you are better than your own words.

I do not think you came up with the notion that dissent and "peaceful demonstration is a subversion of democracy."

Furthermore you do this for a response only, and shame on you for trying to scare Helen.

16 years ago I played show and tell here. I then practiced satire to the overwhelming criticism of older members. I then entered the editorial cartoon phase with mixed results. I took some years off and addressed dyslexia head on. They say there is no cure, but fortitude and practice has made my language clearer than ever.

Your cycling thoughts go round and around and never go anywhere. At least all my posts have great diversity over time. I criticize or praise all sides with a preference for the left and try to look at mysteries with an eye toward new insight based on the little I know.
Naturally we are different in a 'words only format'. Our reaction to a sunrise would probably be different.

So are you a needy pasting stooge or are you stuck in a dull circle?
You have the freedom to be more.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Feb 17 - 03:31 PM

America had no need to be involved in Libya Greg, President Obama was extremely reluctant to move on the issue, until Mrs Clinton(looking towards her own political future) took the initiative. It was a win/ win situation for Clinton and A lose/lose situation for President Obama. The US political establishment wanted war for the usual reasons......Iraq/ Libya/ Syria.

Good to see you back BTW hope all is well with you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Feb 17 - 01:05 PM

A good, decent, but weak man was manipulated by his Secretary of State and the political establishment into a military intervention in Libya

Please explain how HRC & the U.S. "political extablishment" manipulated NATO and the other countries who sent thousands of troops to the INTERNATIONAL intervention in Libya.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Feb 17 - 12:30 PM

Utter cobblers. Trump won under bad rules. Leave won under bad rules. You call it democracy. I call it democracy in disrepute. Now look here. I regard you as a man not worth wearing out my single typing finger on. We can never agree because you're always wrong. Now I'm not talking to you any more in this thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Feb 17 - 12:20 PM

Don't be ridiculous Steve, President Donal John won according to the rules. If the election had been based on a first past the post system DJ would have fought a completely different campaign.
As would Mrs Clinton.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Feb 17 - 11:45 AM

Assuredly, you don't know that. And no-one is protesting out of "spite," are they? They are protesting out of worry and fear for the future. And if you keep banging on about his being democratically-elected despite losing the popular vote by three million, I might have to bang on about how the Remain campaign won.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Feb 17 - 11:31 AM

The "jokey metaphor is worrisome, but slightly less so that the double standards which appear to apply in this forum.

Cast your mind back eight years to the election of president Obama, there were many disappointed conservatives posting here at the time yet none stooped to such tactics.
Assuredly, if such a nasty metaphor had been posted it would have lasted minutes before deletion.

As a footnote, at the time when most of the membership were applauding the coming CHANGE.....I ventured the opinion that President Obama would change "only what he was allowed to change"

This was greeted by howls of derision by most of the membership, but it proved to be right on the button......A good, decent, but weak man was manipulated by his Secretary of State and the political establishment into a military intervention in Libya, which led to an even worse conclusion for world peace than President bush's adventures in Iraq.
President Trump is democratically elected by the US electorate and must be given a chance to put his policies to the test.
To protest out of spite, or in an attempt to subvert the democratic process is wrong.

Eliza, if you wish to discuss homosexuality I will be pleased to debate with you, just open a thread on the subject. If not, try to keep your views where they belong.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Stu
Date: 06 Feb 17 - 09:57 AM

I don't care for the phrase 'yanks" used in this context. It's pejorative and deliberately inclusive of all the people of one country.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Feb 17 - 09:28 AM

... which just proves what a fool I can be, since I really mean Squealer!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Feb 17 - 09:26 AM

Whenever I hear "snowflake" I am always reminded of Snowball.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Feb 17 - 09:25 AM

Yeah, snowflakes has been adopted as the favourite pejorative by two of our dear friends on this forum. Needless to say, both these chaps are snowflakes. And that's the last time you'll see me using that ridiculous expression. As for Budweiser, there's a perfectly respectable Czech beer of that name, though the yanks have made sure it has to be called something else in their country. Are the yanks still calling some of their fake Californian fizz "Champagne?"


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Stu
Date: 06 Feb 17 - 09:14 AM

Added to Trumps hate list: Budweiser*. For making an alert for the Super Bowl that show immigration in a good light (gasp!).

Mighty thin-skinned these Trumpers. They call us "snowflakes" start whining when they take offence. Which they do easily.


* Actually, Budweiser is on my 'nasty' list, but because it is the most appalling stale horse piss ever bottled and sold as beer. No beer drinker with an ounce of taste would touch the stuff.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Feb 17 - 07:12 AM

I'd be happy for now if it crawled down to take up permanent residence in his gob.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: gillymor
Date: 06 Feb 17 - 07:04 AM

Helen's "Sweep" idea deserved it's own thread so more members may have taken note and had fun with it. For instance, I'd like to buy a ticket on Trump clocking out because that thing perched on top of his head turns out to be a rabid honey badger who tires of listening to all the bullshit and gives the big buffoon a fatal bite. Long odds but I'll chance it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Feb 17 - 05:43 AM

Oh come on akenaton, Helen didn't mean anything nasty. She was merely stating possibilities in a jokey way. I thoroughly disapprove of wishing people to be assassinated, but her posts weren't in that vein at all.

And while we're on the subject of nasty, the words pot and kettle come to mind regarding gays etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Feb 17 - 05:21 AM

You're like a dog with a bone, aren't you? (simile, not metaphor). Drop it. Helen has made her sentiments crystal clear and shouldn't have to keep justifying herself to you. Especially to you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Feb 17 - 03:26 AM

Oh I know what a metaphor is Helen and how it works.

Sometimes it gives one the opportunity to say the unsayable.

It is a particularly nasty metaphor.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Helen
Date: 05 Feb 17 - 03:45 PM

Thanks Donuel:

"Don't worry Helen. The subject is legitimate, he's 70 0verwieght and loves fast food. My $ is on 72. "

Funnily enough. I know a workplace bully who fits the same description - although she is younger - and that's where my prediction lies with her, too.

As for my favourite horse in the Trump race, my bet is on Give Him Enough Rope To Hang Himself.

And akenaton, I am talking figuratively, metaphorically, allegorically, and not literally. In case you want to challenge my ethical and moral stance on suicide. I'm talking "political suicide" here. :-)

Helen


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Enemies List
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Feb 17 - 11:20 AM

look here

Proof of Russian Oil CEO offering Trump cash for lifting sanctions.

You know what this means

This is a treasonous act with proof

The Trump surrogate in Russia is no longer in the Trump administration.

This is a game changer. In Russia 4 treason trials are underway.

Where is the American Trial? May?


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