mudcat.org: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafeawe

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9]


Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate

Related threads:
Review: Bob Dylan: 2017 Thoughts (2)
Why didn't MacColl like Dylan? (517)
Review: New Dylan Album-Shadows in the Night (45)
Stolen melodies/Bob Dylan (113)
Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax (44)
The Man Who Yelled 'Judas!' to Bob Dylan (32)
Dylan to be awarded Medal of Freedom (46)
Dylan Talking Nonsense ? (48)
Bob Dylan 70yrs on 24th May..... (22)
Dylan Plays Vietnam (12)
Bob Dylan: Happy 69th birthday (15)
Joni Mitchell -Dylan is 'a plagiarist' (108)
Dylan Christmas CD !!!!! (75)
He's 68 (but he says he's 54) (7)
Happy Birthday Bob Dylan (35)
A new career for Bob [Dylan]? (3)
DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorseseDocumentary (164)
Sale: Robert Zimmerman Notes (12)
Dylan's use of Trad music? (101)
Joan Baez- uncensored Dylan Movie (94)
Dylan Profiled on 12-5-04 - CBS's 60 Minutes (8)
Dylan: Rock Legend, Maybe Folk Legend? (81)
Dylan Watch: Events Coming for 60 (24)
Happy Birthday Bobby Zimmerman (May 2000) (21)


GUEST,HiLo 24 Oct 16 - 02:10 PM
Steve Shaw 24 Oct 16 - 01:53 PM
The Sandman 24 Oct 16 - 01:50 PM
GUEST,HiLo 24 Oct 16 - 01:45 PM
bobad 24 Oct 16 - 01:39 PM
GUEST,pauperback 24 Oct 16 - 01:13 PM
The Sandman 24 Oct 16 - 01:04 PM
Steve Shaw 24 Oct 16 - 09:14 AM
bobad 24 Oct 16 - 08:57 AM
The Sandman 24 Oct 16 - 08:54 AM
GUEST,Lou Judson 24 Oct 16 - 08:29 AM
Steve Shaw 24 Oct 16 - 07:54 AM
Bonzo3legs 24 Oct 16 - 07:48 AM
GUEST,pauperback 24 Oct 16 - 06:46 AM
GUEST,pauperback 23 Oct 16 - 07:50 PM
Steve Shaw 23 Oct 16 - 07:02 PM
GUEST,pauperback 23 Oct 16 - 06:54 PM
GUEST,keberoxu 23 Oct 16 - 06:35 PM
Steve Shaw 23 Oct 16 - 06:05 PM
Jeri 23 Oct 16 - 05:45 PM
GUEST,keberoxu 23 Oct 16 - 04:45 PM
GUEST,nock 23 Oct 16 - 03:55 PM
keberoxu 23 Oct 16 - 02:10 PM
GUEST,Phil d'Conch 23 Oct 16 - 02:22 AM
Andy7 22 Oct 16 - 05:21 PM
Steve Shaw 22 Oct 16 - 06:59 AM
Mrrzy 20 Oct 16 - 04:50 PM
Mrrzy 20 Oct 16 - 03:39 PM
GUEST,pauperback 20 Oct 16 - 02:59 PM
The Sandman 20 Oct 16 - 01:35 PM
Jim Carroll 20 Oct 16 - 01:32 PM
GUEST,HiLo 20 Oct 16 - 01:26 PM
bobad 20 Oct 16 - 01:14 PM
The Sandman 20 Oct 16 - 12:41 PM
Jim Carroll 20 Oct 16 - 11:22 AM
bobad 20 Oct 16 - 11:00 AM
Steve Shaw 20 Oct 16 - 10:58 AM
GUEST 20 Oct 16 - 10:38 AM
The Sandman 20 Oct 16 - 10:23 AM
The Sandman 20 Oct 16 - 10:20 AM
The Sandman 20 Oct 16 - 10:14 AM
The Sandman 20 Oct 16 - 09:51 AM
The Sandman 20 Oct 16 - 09:37 AM
Steve Gardham 20 Oct 16 - 09:04 AM
The Sandman 20 Oct 16 - 07:25 AM
Mr Red 20 Oct 16 - 05:18 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle 19 Oct 16 - 10:28 PM
GUEST,pauperback 19 Oct 16 - 10:00 PM
Steve Shaw 19 Oct 16 - 07:58 PM
Steve Shaw 19 Oct 16 - 07:57 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:








Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 24 Oct 16 - 02:10 PM

If it has to be "explained" to you there is no point. The point is to take it for what it is. The problem isn't his, its tours.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Oct 16 - 01:53 PM

"Rock and roll legend, Bob Dylan, acknowledged in a recent interview that he has perpetuated an elaborate hoax on the public for more than fifty years. 'I can't sing, half of the time I don't even say real words, I just mumble, and my lyrics make no sense.'...

...Dylan, often referred to as a 'poetic genius,' claims he never knew what people were talking about. 'How profound is "don't want to be a bum, you better chew gum. The pump don't work 'cause the vandals stole the handles?" I just made up simple rhymes. Any child could have done what I did.'...

...'Apparently, Lincoln was wrong. You can fool all of the people, all of the time,' Dylan added."

[Rolling Stone]


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Oct 16 - 01:50 PM

Explain it please,give us your understanding. mean while can we compare arguably Dylans best song masters of war, and universal soldier.
He's five feet two and he's six feet four
He fights with missiles and with spears
He's all of 31 and he's only 17
He's been a soldier for a thousand years
He's a Catholic, a Hindu, an athiest, a Jain,
a Buddhist and a Baptist and a Jew
and he knows he shouldn't kill
and he knows he always will
kill you for me my friend and me for you
And he's fighting for Canada,
he's fighting for France,
he's fighting for the USA,
and he's fighting for the Russians
and he's fighting for Japan,
and he thinks we'll put an end to war this way
And he's fighting for Democracy
and fighting for the Reds
He says it's for the peace of all
He's the one who must decide
who's to live and who's to die
and he never sees the writing on the walls
But without him how would Hitler have
condemned him at Dachau
Without him Caesar would have stood alone
He's the one who gives his body
as a weapon to a war
and without him all this killing can't go on
He's the universal soldier and he
really is to blame
His orders come from far away no more
They come from him, and you, and me
and brothers can't you see
this is not the way we put an end to war
Songwriters: Buffy Sainte-Marie
Masters of War
Bob Dylan
Come you masters of war
You that build the big guns
You that build the death planes
You that build all the bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks
You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly
Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain
You fasten all the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you sit back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion
While the young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud
You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins
How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
That even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do
Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good?
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could?
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul
And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
By the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand o'er your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 24 Oct 16 - 01:45 PM

Re: Farewell Angelina..great song, great lyrics, no gibberish. Not everything is simple, there are some things we just have to try a little harder to understand or, perhaps just enjoy things for what they are. If you get nothing out of it, perhaps it is not the fault of the write, but the impatience of the reader.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: bobad
Date: 24 Oct 16 - 01:39 PM

In response to GSS I quote from ee cummings:

beware of heartless them
(given the scalpel,they dissect a kiss;
or,sold the reason,they undream a dream)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: GUEST,pauperback
Date: 24 Oct 16 - 01:13 PM

Fair one bonzo


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Oct 16 - 01:04 PM

Come on,Explain Farewell Angelina, its gibberish set to a nice tune or what is it?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Oct 16 - 09:14 AM

Well that's what I mean. Dylan generates a self-appointed in-crowd who claim to "get it" whereas those of us who love lyrical and communicative art are presumed to be excluded. I call that sort of pretentiousness, which Bob surely didn't intend, a massive downside. I suppose you "get" Warhol's tins of soup too. 😂


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: bobad
Date: 24 Oct 16 - 08:57 AM

You either get it or you don't.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: Lyr Add: FAREWELL ANGELINA ( Bob Dylan)
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Oct 16 - 08:54 AM

this is nonsense.
Farewell Angelina

Farewell, Angelina, the bells of the crown
Are being stolen by bandits, I must follow the sound
The triangle tingles and the trumpets play slow
Farewell, Angelina, the sky is on fire and I must go.

There's no need for anger, there's no need for blame
There's nothing to prove, everything's still the same
Just a table standing empty by the edge of the sea
Means farewell, Angelina, the sky is trembling, and I must leave.

The jacks and queens have forsaked the courtyard
Fifty-two gypsies, now file past the guards
In the space where the deuce and the ace once ran wild
Farewell, Angelina, the sky is falling, I'll see you in a while.

See the cross-eyed pirates sitting perched in the sun
Shooting tin cans with a sawed-off shotgun
And the neighbours they clap and they cheer with each blast
But farewell, Angelina, the sky's changing colour and I must leave fast.

King Kong, little elves on the rooftops they dance
Valentino-type tangos while the make-up man's hands
Shut the eyes of the dead not to embarrass anyone
But farewell, Angelina, the sky is embarrassed and I must be gone.

The machine guns are roaring, the puppets heave rocks
And fiends nail time bombs to the hands of the clocks
Call me any name you like, I will never deny it
But farewell, Angelina, the sky is erupting, I must go where it's quiet.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: GUEST,Lou Judson
Date: 24 Oct 16 - 08:29 AM

"From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Oct 16 - 07:47 PM

But it's true. Show me any Beatles lyrics that come anywhere near to Dylan's flowery, obscurantist nonsense. Shallow copies at best."

So, which is the copy of what? That river flows both ways...

Poetry and music do not need to make sense, only to make us feel!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Oct 16 - 07:54 AM

Is that his transgender name?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Oct 16 - 07:48 AM

I suppose Dylana's biggest achievement is to influence obsessive bootleg collectors to obtain video & audio of every single one of his gigs, despite them being bloody awful!!!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: GUEST,pauperback
Date: 24 Oct 16 - 06:46 AM

Beethoven was 'in' in the 1940s and Dylan in the 60s
What should the lads in the up-armoured Landies hear?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: GUEST,pauperback
Date: 23 Oct 16 - 07:50 PM

Sounds about right


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Oct 16 - 07:02 PM

Bach changed the nature of music. Beethoven changed the nature of music. Wagner tried to but hit a dead end. A good few medieval, renaissance and other baroque chaps had a massive influence. Mozart changed opera forever. Beethoven was influenced by Palestrina and Handel. Haydn was the father of the symphony. One thing about all those guys is that they are all dead this last two hundred years or more (well, a tad less in the case of Wagner and Beethoven) but you've heard of all of 'em. Can probably hum a good few of their tunes, and their stars are not at all fading. I reckon we'll be listening to The Firebird and Daphnis and Rhapsody In Blue in 200 years too. Dylan in 200 years? Well maybe. Like the Beatles. But we have their records. Ludwig never made a single record. Herbert Von Karajan made hundreds of records, lionised at the time, yet almost every single one of them sounds horribly dated already. So, who knows. The Everly Brothers are victims of fashion in a way that Elvis isn't. You never can tell. My kids love the Beatles for their lyricism, though they were both born more then ten years after the split. They've both got tons of Elvis. Love him. But play them a bit of snarlin' Bob and they think you've gone stark staring mad. They're OK with the Byrds doing Mr Tambourine Man but that's about it. He's doomed, Nobel prize notwithstanding.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: GUEST,pauperback
Date: 23 Oct 16 - 06:54 PM

Hey nock, listen till the end

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_lM_ePgwlM


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: GUEST,keberoxu
Date: 23 Oct 16 - 06:35 PM

Jeri, people outside the UK, like me, have heard of Peggy Seeger, which is how I heard of Ewan MacColl....many decades ago, thank you very much.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Oct 16 - 06:05 PM

You're over-reacting. It really isn't that bad. No-one is saying that some UK bloke should have had it more than him as far as I can see, though a controversial award of this sort is inevitably going to lead to comparisons with others who might have been considered. As for changing the nature of music, well I hardly think so. What kind of music are you talking about? Do expand...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Oct 16 - 05:45 PM

"Hi, troll" backatcha!

This thread has pretty much become solid trollery. Guy got a major award, and some people think he didn't deserve it. Just because he wrote a ton of songs that are well-known throughout the world, and changed the nature of music, they think maybe a guy in the UK that people outside the UK likely haven't heard of, who wrote a handful of songs, deserves it more than he did.

It's a flat-out, stupid bitch-fest. Bunch of bitter old farts got tired of privately telling kids to "get off my lawn" so decided to have a public hissy fit. Audience participation required.

Just let it go.
He got the award, and there's nothing anyone can do about it... except bitch and try to provoke other people. It's over. Let them keep going forever. I see no point in this.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: GUEST,keberoxu
Date: 23 Oct 16 - 04:45 PM

hi, troll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: GUEST,nock
Date: 23 Oct 16 - 03:55 PM

he has more money than all of you


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Oct 16 - 02:10 PM

Nigel Paterson name-checking Bach reminded me of someone else, but that really is a pointer toward thread creep. You're talking the Baroque period there, and the Baroque era was mad, composer-wise.

England was swinging at one far end of the pendulum. Sometimes England is memorably iconoclastic, and defies artistic and cultural conventions being maintained in continental Europe, in the spirit of independence. And then there are eras like the time when Bach and Handel were around. No, the big Bach never made it to England, but Handel did, and not in order to compose the Messiah, but to compete for the English audiences for....the success of Italian music in general and opera in particular. Handel was in there duking it out with born-and-bred Italians who also wanted to cash in on the English craze for Italian music. That's what I mean by the far end of the pendulum -- at regular intervals in history, England will go altogether mad for a cultural fashion from another nation entirely....


....which always reminds me of the previous century, and Afro-American popular music taking England by storm.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 23 Oct 16 - 02:22 AM

"...like pinning a medal on Mount Everest for being the highest mountain."

Leonard Cohen


Mudcatter Nobel votes = LA Dodgers' batting order. Go Cubbies!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Andy7
Date: 22 Oct 16 - 05:21 PM

I wonder whether he'll accept the cash.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Oct 16 - 06:59 AM

And now the Nobel committee are getting restive. Come, come out wherever you are! 😳


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Oct 16 - 04:50 PM

And, he's baaaack!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Oct 16 - 03:39 PM

Peace on earth and mudcat too. Don't concede unless you win!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: GUEST,pauperback
Date: 20 Oct 16 - 02:59 PM

One line, Dick, could sum up yer man's literary prowess:

"He's a no-account son of a bitch, he's just like a scum of a scum bag of the earth, I should have sued him and put him in jail."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Oct 16 - 01:35 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jWFPLjYEaw
give me Guthrie or MacColl any time,


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Oct 16 - 01:32 PM

"Sour grapes produce British whine."
Bridges produce Trolls
If you admir the man so much why contradict him?
"but he is not in the same class as Dylan at all"
Matter of opinion
As far as I am concerned, Dylan never ose above the moon-June-tune level and his tunless singing of stolen lyrics were somehat rpetatively booooooring.
I'll take his word for it
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 20 Oct 16 - 01:26 PM

I am not saying that McColl didn't write a few good songs, but he is not in the same class as Dylan at all. Whatever one thinks of Dylan as a songwriter, he was a huge influence in a way that changed a lot about popular and folk music. In fact there are many writers who surpass McColl both in terms of music and influence. Just my thoughts on it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: bobad
Date: 20 Oct 16 - 01:14 PM

Sour grapes produce British whine.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Oct 16 - 12:41 PM

Thanks, Jim, you are spot on
one thing you and I agree on Ewan was a better songwriter than Bob


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Oct 16 - 11:22 AM

Horse's mouth confession
"MY LYRICS DON'T MAKE SENSE"
How can you disagree with the man himself.
Dylan's attitude was summed up by his making his name out of protest songs and refusing to join Seeger et al on the Southern Freedom Rides - he was blackmailed by Singer/actor, Theodor Bikel paying his fare South.
A cyncal, somewhat talentless con artist who used people to get where he got and left them behind - ask Joan the Clone
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: bobad
Date: 20 Oct 16 - 11:00 AM

Just proves to me if you don't get it, you don't get it. Shame the Nobel committee didn't ask those folks on Mudcat who know better than they do who should NOT have been given the award, if not who should have.

This!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Oct 16 - 10:58 AM

One line, Dick, could sum up yer man's literary prowess:

"I ain't gonna work on Maggie's farm no more..."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Oct 16 - 10:38 AM

Poems should have rhyme,
And regularity of rhythm;
And if you have the time,
Then you should always write 'em with 'em.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Oct 16 - 10:23 AM

All the tired horses in the sun
How am I supposed to get any riding done?
All the tired horses in the sun
How am I supposed to get any riding done?

All the tired horses in the sun
How am I supposed to get any riding done?
All the tired horses in the sun
How am I supposed to get any riding done?

All the tired horses in the sun
How am I supposed to get any riding done?
All the tired horses in the sun
How am I supposed to get any riding done?



Read more: Bob Dylan - All The Tired Horses Lyrics | MetroLyrics


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Oct 16 - 10:20 AM

and a real stinker from the prize winner
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle all dressed in green
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle till the moon is blue
Wiggle till the moon sees you
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle in your boots and shoes
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, you got nothing to lose
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, like a swarm of bees
Wiggle on your hands and knees
Wiggle to the front, wiggle to the rear
Wiggle till you wiggle right out of here
Wiggle till it opens, wiggle till it shuts
Wiggle till it bites, wiggle till it cuts
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle, you can raise the dead
Wiggle till you're high, wiggle till you're higher
Wiggle till you vomit fire
Wiggle till it whispers, wiggle till it hums
Wiggle till it answers, wiggle till it comes
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like satin and silk
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a pail of milk
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, rattle and shake
Wiggle like a big fat snake


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Oct 16 - 10:14 AM

this is a little better, but not much.Born in Red Hook, Brooklyn, in the year of who knows when
Opened up his eyes to the tune of an accordion
Always on the outside of whatever side there was
When they asked him why it had to be that way, well, he answered, just because
Larry was the oldest, Joey was next to last
They called Joe Crazy, the baby they called Kid Blast
Some say they lived off gambling and runnin' numbers too
It always seemed they got caught between the mob and the men in blue
Joey, Joey
King of the streets, child of clay
Joey, Joey
What made them want to come and blow you away
There was talk they killed their rivals, but the truth was far from that
No one ever knew for sure where they were really at
When they tried to strangle Larry, Joey almost got hit the roof
He went out that night to seek revenge, thinkin' he was bulletproof
Then, the war broke out at the break of dawn, it emptied out the streets
Joey and his brothers suffered terrible defeats
Till they ventured out behind the lines and took five prisoners
They stashed them away in a basement, called them amateurs
The hostages were tremblin' when they heard a man exclaim
Let's blow this place to kingdom come, let Con Edison take the blame
But Joey stepped up, he raised his hand, said, we're not those kind of men
It's peace and quiet that we need to go back to work again
Joey, Joey
King of the streets, child of clay
Joey, Joey
What made them want to come and blow you away
The police department hounded him, they called him Mr. Smith
They got him on conspiracy, they were never sure who with
What time is it? said the judge to Joey when they met
Five to ten, said Joey, the judge says, that's exactly what you get
He did ten years in Attica, reading Nietzsche and Wilhelm Reich
They threw him in the hole one time for tryin' to stop a strike
His closest friends were black men 'cause they seemed to understand
What it's like to be in society with a shackle on your hand
They let him out in '71 he'd lost a little weight
But he dressed like Jimmy Cagney and I swear he did look great
He tried to find the way back into the life he left behind
To the boss he said, I have returned and now I want what's mine
Joey, Joey
King of the streets, child of clay
Joey, Joey
What made them want to come and blow you away
It was true that in his later years he would not carry a gun
I'm around too many children, he'd say, they should never know of one
Yet he walked right into the clubhouse of his lifelong deadly foe
Emptied out the register, said, tell 'em it was Crazy Joe
One day they blew him down in a clam bar in New York
He could see it comin' through the door as he lifted up his fork
He pushed the table over to protect his family
Then he staggered out into the streets of Little Italy
Joey, Joey
King of the streets, child of clay
Joey, Joey
What made them want to come and blow you away
Sister Jacqueline and Carmela and mother Mary all did weep
I heard his best friend Frankie say, he ain't dead, he's just asleep
Then I saw the old man's limousine head back towards the grave
I guess he had to say one last goodbye to the son that he could not save
The sun turned cold over President Street and the town of Brooklyn mourned
They said a mass in the old church near the house where he was born
And someday if God's in heaven overlookin' His preserve
I know the men that shot him down will get what they deserve
Joey, Joey
King of the streets, child of clay
Joey, Joey
What made them want to come and blow you away


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Oct 16 - 09:51 AM

I agree it is only one song and some other efforts are considerably better, but if someone is awarded a nobel prize for poetry, i would expect a more consistent standard of high class poetry.
here is another poor effort.
Ballad in Plain D
Bob Dylan
I once loved a girl, her skin it was bronze
With the innocence of a lamb, she was gentle like a fawn
I courted her proudly but now she is gone
Gone as the season she's taken
In a young summer's youth, I stole her away
From her mother and sister, though close did they stay
Each one of them suffering from the failures of their day
With strings of guilt they tried hard to guide us
Of the two sisters, I loved the young
With sensitive instincts, she was the creative one
The constant scrapegoat, she was easily undone
By the jealousy of others around her
For her parasite sister, I had no respect
Bound by her boredom, her pride to protect
Countless visions of the other she'd reflect
As a crutch for her scenes and her society
Myself, for what I did, I cannot be excused
The changes I was going through can't even be used
For the lies that I told her in hopes not to lose
The could-be dream-lover of my lifetime
With unseen consciousness, I possessed in my grip
A magnificent mantelpiece, though its heart being chipped
Noticing not that I'd already slipped
To the sin of love's false security
From silhouetted anger to manufactured peace
Answers of emptiness, voice vacancies
'Till the tombstones of damage read me no questions but, "Please
What's wrong and what's exactly the matter?"
And so it did happen like it could have been foreseen
The timeless explosion of fantasy's dream
At the peak of the night, the king and the queen
Tumbled all down into pieces
"The tragic figure!" her sister did shout
"Leave her alone, god damn you, get out!"
And I in my armor, turning about
And nailing her in the ruins of her pettiness
Beneath a bare light bulb the plaster did pound
Her sister and I in a screaming battleground
And she in between, the victim of sound
Soon shattered as a child to the shadows
All is gone, all is gone, admit it, take flight
I gagged in contradiction, tears blinding my sight
My mind it was mangled, I ran into the night
Leaving all of love's ashes behind me
The wind knocks my window, the room it is wet
The words to say I'm sorry, I haven't found yet
I think of her often and hope whoever she's met
Will be fully aware of how precious she is
Ah, my friends from the prison, they ask unto me
"How good, how good does it feel to be free?"
And I answer them most mysteriously
"Are birds free from the chains of the skyway?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Oct 16 - 09:37 AM

No,I do not agree with that particular exert that you have extracted from the whole quotation, an example that points to the stupidity of that remark is the lack of poetic style in this song. The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll
Bob Dylan
William Zanzinger killed poor Hattie Carroll
With a cane that he twirled around his diamond ring finger
At a Baltimore hotel society gathering
And the cops were called in and his weapon took from him
As they rode him in custody down to the station
And booked William Zanzinger for first-degree murder
But you who philosophize disgrace and criticize all fears
Take the rag away from your face
Now ain't the time for your tears
William Zanzinger, who at twenty-four years
Owns a tobacco farm of six hundred acres
With rich wealthy parents who provide and protect him
And high office relations in the politics of Maryland
Reacted to his deed with a shrug of his shoulders
And swear words and sneering, and his tongue it was snarling
In a matter of minutes, on bail was out walking
But you who philosophize disgrace and criticize fears
Take the rag away from your face
Now ain't the time for your tears
Hattie Carroll was a maid in the kitchen
She was fifty-one years old and gave birth to ten children
Who carried the dishes and took out the garbage
And never sat once at the head of the table
And didn't even talk to the people at the table
Who just cleaned up all the food from the table
And emptied the ashtrays on a whole other level
Got killed by a blow, lay slain by a cane
That sailed through the air and came down through the room
Doomed and determined to destroy all the gentle
And she never done nothing to William Zanzinger
And you who philosophize disgrace and criticize all fears
Take the rag away from your face
Now ain't the time for your tears
In the courtroom of honor, the judge pounded his gavel
To show that all's equal and that the courts are on the level
And that the strings in the books ain't pulled and persuaded
And that even the nobles get properly handled
Once that the cops have chased after and caught 'em
And that the ladder of law has no top and no bottom
Stared at the person who killed for no reason
Who just happened to be feelin' that way without warnin'
And he spoke through his cloak, most deep and distinguished
And handed out strongly, for penalty and repentance
William Zanzinger with a six-month sentence
Oh, but you who philosophize disgrace and criticize all fears
Bury the rag deep in your face
For now's the time for your tears.
this song is good poetry? are you serious? firstly its grammatically incorrect here
[And she never done nothing to William Zanzinger,] double negatives mean the opposite, then this
"And never sat once at the head of the table
And didn't even talk to the people at the table
Who just cleaned up all the food from the table".
    This song does not have good verse it contains bad grammar that reverses the intended meaning, it's devoid of imagination,although it has substance it is poor poetry.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 20 Oct 16 - 09:04 AM

>>It is true that an immense number of treasured lyrics do work as well on the printed page as in a musical context. Writer/artists such as Jackson Browne, Joni Mitchell, Bob Dylan, Tom Waits, and others possess vocal and writing styles so integrated that an unusually poetic phrase feels right at home in their styles<<

Thanks for that Braheny quotation, Dick. As you posted it I presume you agree with it!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Oct 16 - 07:25 AM

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Jeri - PM
Date: 19 Oct 16 - 07:46 PM

Just proves to me if you don't get it, you don't get it. Shame the Nobel committee didn't ask those folks on Mudcat who know better than they do who should NOT have been given the award, if not who should have.
jeri knows better than those people on mudcat cos shes a Dylan fan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Oct 16 - 05:18 AM

who was it said:
"with poetry the music is made to fit the words, with song the words are shoehorned into the music"

Now shoot me down with a ten foot feather but the constant in that epithet is words. Literature would be pretty blank without them.

And anyway the Nobel committee cited influence as well as their regard for Bob's words.

Queen Kristina of Sweden said "He who chooses his own path, needs no map". And Bob has certainly ploughed his own furrow.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaand - He don't need no stinkin' badge.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 19 Oct 16 - 10:28 PM

Captain Byrd's Eye - back off for a little perspective...seven posts in 24 hours might show you are obsessing. Your points are well taken.

If you know Dylan then you know the meaning of "The Changing of the Guard." It is his life story

After 16 years of performance this marked a profound change in his style with two female backups and a saxophone intermission. He had been divorced, converted to Christianity.

Trager"s book has Dylan saying that the meaning changes every time he plays it and the subject is a thousand years old. The Biblical reference are to himself as the good shepherd in a market place of of thieves and swindlers, and of course the watch tower and fires.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

I enjoy Zimmerman MUCH more than frosty little cat feet that creep in over night Windows.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: GUEST,pauperback
Date: 19 Oct 16 - 10:00 PM

Brenda dubbed this guy? And what, pray, was the purpose of that?



Oh, you should have seen me with the poker man
I had a honey and I bet a grand
Just in the nick of time I looked at his hand

I was talking to an eskimo
Said he was hoping for a fall of snow
When up popped a sea lion, ready to go

Let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go
Down to junior's farm where I wanna lay low
Low life, high life, oh, let's go
Take me down to junior's farm

Oh, at the houses of parliament
Everybody's talkin' 'bout the president
We all chip in for a bag of cement

Ollie hardy should have had more sense
He bought a gee-gee and he jumped the fence
All for the sake of a couple of pence


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Oct 16 - 07:58 PM

The business of poets and other writers of literature is to make us get it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Oct 16 - 07:57 PM

Well Woody wrote simple words for simple people to understand, with devastating clarity and lyricism, no less poetic for that. He avoided cleverness, obscurantism and appeals to a weird in-crowd that find strange arrangements of words just as perplexing as me yet who pretend to understand them "deeply."

Poetry is about crystal-clear communication of ideas that we non-poets find inchoate, giving us that revelatory spark of sudden comprehension. Poets reach out to grab us by the throat, and the last thing they want is for us to be surrounded by perplexity and fog that they might have induced. Dylan fails abysmally on that count alone. If you want your literature to be something that you have to scratch your head over, Dylan may be for you. The art I like most is the art that reaches out to me, not the art that tries to confuse me via impenetrable language and to make me feel that I'm not in the in-crowd, thank you. And I'm not illiterate, and I do make the effort. Woody lives, but not through Bob Dylan.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
Next Page

  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 21 January 8:50 PM EST

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.