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BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues

Greg F. 15 Mar 16 - 02:17 PM
keberoxu 15 Mar 16 - 02:58 PM
Donuel 15 Mar 16 - 03:18 PM
Donuel 15 Mar 16 - 03:40 PM
Donuel 15 Mar 16 - 04:39 PM
Greg F. 15 Mar 16 - 06:49 PM
keberoxu 15 Mar 16 - 06:50 PM
GUEST,# 15 Mar 16 - 07:31 PM
olddude 15 Mar 16 - 08:13 PM
Donuel 15 Mar 16 - 09:30 PM
Ebbie 16 Mar 16 - 12:11 AM
GUEST,Lighter 16 Mar 16 - 11:28 AM
GUEST,JTS 16 Mar 16 - 12:44 PM
Joe Offer 16 Mar 16 - 07:42 PM
Stilly River Sage 16 Mar 16 - 07:46 PM
GUEST,# 16 Mar 16 - 08:08 PM
GUEST,# 16 Mar 16 - 08:16 PM
akenaton 17 Mar 16 - 06:00 AM
Charmion 17 Mar 16 - 07:16 AM
GUEST,# 17 Mar 16 - 08:21 AM
Donuel 17 Mar 16 - 08:43 AM
Greg F. 17 Mar 16 - 08:49 AM
Stilly River Sage 17 Mar 16 - 09:51 AM
akenaton 17 Mar 16 - 09:59 AM
keberoxu 17 Mar 16 - 11:30 AM
Ebbie 17 Mar 16 - 11:35 AM
Donuel 17 Mar 16 - 12:07 PM
GUEST,# 17 Mar 16 - 01:29 PM
GUEST,Richard Bridge on the Intel Quad Core 17 Mar 16 - 02:02 PM
Peter the Squeezer 17 Mar 16 - 02:53 PM
Donuel 17 Mar 16 - 04:17 PM
akenaton 17 Mar 16 - 06:12 PM
Donuel 17 Mar 16 - 07:17 PM
GUEST,# 17 Mar 16 - 07:26 PM
GUEST,LynnH 18 Mar 16 - 03:58 AM
Peter the Squeezer 18 Mar 16 - 04:23 AM
GUEST,Musket 18 Mar 16 - 05:02 AM
akenaton 18 Mar 16 - 05:48 AM
Mr Red 18 Mar 16 - 07:18 AM
GUEST,Lighter 18 Mar 16 - 07:30 AM
GUEST,# 18 Mar 16 - 08:15 AM
Stilly River Sage 18 Mar 16 - 09:11 AM
Charmion 18 Mar 16 - 09:39 AM
GUEST,Musket 18 Mar 16 - 11:56 AM
akenaton 18 Mar 16 - 12:33 PM
Ebbie 18 Mar 16 - 12:34 PM
Jim Carroll 18 Mar 16 - 12:53 PM
Donuel 18 Mar 16 - 01:01 PM
Greg F. 18 Mar 16 - 02:26 PM
akenaton 18 Mar 16 - 03:12 PM
akenaton 18 Mar 16 - 03:24 PM
Ebbie 18 Mar 16 - 03:49 PM
Donuel 18 Mar 16 - 04:20 PM
Stilly River Sage 18 Mar 16 - 04:26 PM
GUEST,# 18 Mar 16 - 06:07 PM
frogprince 18 Mar 16 - 06:25 PM
frogprince 18 Mar 16 - 06:30 PM
frogprince 18 Mar 16 - 06:34 PM
GUEST,# 18 Mar 16 - 08:19 PM
Donuel 18 Mar 16 - 08:25 PM
Donuel 18 Mar 16 - 08:49 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 19 Mar 16 - 12:36 AM
GUEST,Musket 19 Mar 16 - 01:56 AM
Ebbie 19 Mar 16 - 03:15 AM
Jim Carroll 19 Mar 16 - 04:30 AM
akenaton 19 Mar 16 - 04:47 AM
Jim Carroll 19 Mar 16 - 05:04 AM
GUEST,Raggytash 19 Mar 16 - 05:52 AM
Jim Carroll 19 Mar 16 - 06:17 AM
GUEST,Raggytash 19 Mar 16 - 06:27 AM
GUEST,Raggytash 19 Mar 16 - 07:38 AM
GUEST,Raggytash 19 Mar 16 - 07:42 AM
Jim Carroll 19 Mar 16 - 08:07 AM
Mr Red 19 Mar 16 - 08:26 AM
Donuel 19 Mar 16 - 08:30 AM
GUEST,Raggytash 19 Mar 16 - 09:03 AM
Jim Carroll 19 Mar 16 - 09:03 AM
GUEST,Raggytash 19 Mar 16 - 09:07 AM
Jim Carroll 19 Mar 16 - 09:19 AM
akenaton 19 Mar 16 - 12:37 PM
akenaton 19 Mar 16 - 12:43 PM
Jim Carroll 19 Mar 16 - 01:16 PM
akenaton 19 Mar 16 - 01:56 PM
Jim Carroll 19 Mar 16 - 02:59 PM
keberoxu 19 Mar 16 - 03:03 PM
GUEST,Raggytash 19 Mar 16 - 04:05 PM
GUEST,Musket 20 Mar 16 - 03:40 AM
Mr Red 20 Mar 16 - 04:03 AM
Jim Carroll 20 Mar 16 - 04:10 AM
akenaton 20 Mar 16 - 06:55 AM
GUEST,Musket 20 Mar 16 - 07:11 AM
Jim Carroll 20 Mar 16 - 07:24 AM
Donuel 20 Mar 16 - 07:35 AM
Jim Carroll 20 Mar 16 - 08:06 AM
Greg F. 20 Mar 16 - 09:53 AM
GUEST,# 21 Mar 16 - 01:10 AM
GUEST,Richard Bridge on the Intel 4-core running E 21 Mar 16 - 08:46 AM
GUEST,# 21 Mar 16 - 09:05 AM
GUEST,JeffB 21 Mar 16 - 10:11 AM
Jeri 21 Mar 16 - 10:29 AM
GUEST,Richard Bridge on the Intel Quad Core 21 Mar 16 - 11:03 AM
keberoxu 21 Mar 16 - 11:29 AM
GUEST,Lighter 21 Mar 16 - 01:32 PM
akenaton 21 Mar 16 - 01:57 PM
akenaton 21 Mar 16 - 02:14 PM
Donuel 21 Mar 16 - 02:56 PM
Jim Carroll 21 Mar 16 - 03:58 PM
akenaton 21 Mar 16 - 04:18 PM
akenaton 21 Mar 16 - 04:43 PM
Greg F. 21 Mar 16 - 05:48 PM
GUEST,Richard Bridge on the Intel Quad Core 21 Mar 16 - 06:43 PM
GUEST,# 21 Mar 16 - 08:20 PM
Jim Carroll 21 Mar 16 - 08:49 PM
Greg F. 21 Mar 16 - 10:09 PM
GUEST,Richard Bridge on the Intel Quad Core 21 Mar 16 - 11:16 PM
GUEST,# 21 Mar 16 - 11:51 PM
GUEST,# 21 Mar 16 - 11:58 PM
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Subject: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Mar 16 - 02:17 PM

This is only a test. There was nothing overtly "confrontational" about the similar thread. However the life expectancy of THIS thread can likely be measured in nanoseconds.

That being said:

Sanders calls himself a socialist

No, he calls himself a DEMOCRATIC socialist, like those of 2/3 of the adminstraions in European countries.

In reality, he's more of an FDR Democrat. Of course the idiotocracy also claimed (and still claim)that FDR was a socialist/communist.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: keberoxu
Date: 15 Mar 16 - 02:58 PM

Shouldn't this be Trump III? There was a thread earlier yet about the Genius of Donald Trump...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Mar 16 - 03:18 PM

Any discussion of Trump is confrontational.
Protesters will be taught a lesson.
Do not criticize the regime or Trump supporters.
Do not think we are kidding.


IT CAN'T HAPPEN HERE !
well you have a big surprise coming.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Mar 16 - 03:40 PM

The repression by the right wing tea types is real
I was attacked by a black dually Trump Truck'
It smashed the passenger side of my car and took off.

I have a Bernie bumper sticker 'Bernie the new FDR'
He had a Trump sign.

After coming to a stop side by side he cranked his wheel to the left twice to hit my car.
It was clearly deliberate.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Mar 16 - 04:39 PM

Just because the visibly angry pick up truck driver was white with a Trump sign in the back window behind an NRA sticker does not mean he was evangelical.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Mar 16 - 06:49 PM

Heil Donald!


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: keberoxu
Date: 15 Mar 16 - 06:50 PM

Well, let's see about the election results from this week's primaries -- in the next hours....


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,#
Date: 15 Mar 16 - 07:31 PM

Looks like Trump has Florida. The GOP in its infinite wisdom and aptitude for skulduggery changed Florida to a 'winner take all' state in order to give Rubio and Bush a little boost. I expect a few people in strategy will have the decency to fall on their swords. But seeing's how they're Republicans, I doubt there is enough honor left in them to do that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: olddude
Date: 15 Mar 16 - 08:13 PM

Hillary has more votes right now than all Republican candidates combined. The Republican party is fractured but every one who put Obama in office for eight years is behind her.. She will landslide the general election, and me, I will be visiting the white house yes I am.. I wonder if I can sleep in Lincolns bed.. Hmnn I heard it's haunted


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Mar 16 - 09:30 PM

That is a hopeful perspective Dan.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Mar 16 - 12:11 AM

Orange Dumpsters come to a bad end.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 16 Mar 16 - 11:28 AM

Trump today has threatened "riots in the street" and "trouble like there's never been before" if he loses the GOP nomination in an open convention.

And why? "Because there's a lot of anger in this country." He's already busy harnessing it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,JTS
Date: 16 Mar 16 - 12:44 PM

ABT (anyone but Trump) will win in a landslide.

All they need to do to discredit him is play his own words.

Once people outside the GOP bubble get to know his politics, he is toast.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Mar 16 - 07:42 PM

Olddude says: Hillary has more votes right now than all Republican candidates combined.

Where is that happening, Dan?

I'd like to see a tally of the total number of votes cast for each candidate so far. Reports have been saying that the Republican turnout has been much bigger than that of the Democrats, but is that true?

Anybody know where to find that data?

-Joe-


I should have known. Wikipedia has great data: But I'm too lazy to tally up the total votes cast per candidate just now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Mar 16 - 07:46 PM

This has been reported on NPR today.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,#
Date: 16 Mar 16 - 08:08 PM

There are numbers for Democrat popular votes at

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries,_2016

Scroll down to the blue and beside it purple maps which are side by each. I'll check if there's anything similar for the other party.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,#
Date: 16 Mar 16 - 08:16 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_presidential_primaries,_2016#Result_by_popular_votes

Sixth column to the right in the second part entitled

Candidates and Results.

It's just a little ways down.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Mar 16 - 06:00 AM

I am more concerned about the demise of Mr Sanders than speculation on the prospects of Mr Trump.

No one has yet given a reasonable answer as to why the left are not supporting him but are supporting someone who is centre right ...at best?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Charmion
Date: 17 Mar 16 - 07:16 AM

Ake, don't be disingenuous. Even a cursory look at Senator Sanders' own website -- www.berniesanders.com (blickifier not working yet) -- tells the tale.

The reasonable answer on Senator Sanders' support (or lack of same) is that not enough Democratic Party members believe that he can push his program through Congress.

Most of what he says makes perfect sense to Brits like you and Canadians like me, who have lived most or all of lives with socialized medicine and substantial public support to higher education, but these ideas are political poison in the United States. Senator Sanders proposes to fund his program with swinging taxes on corporations, Wall Street speculators and the super-rich, but you and I both know that such a plan has no hope of success unless the Democrats take both the Senate and the House of Representatives in a landslide, as well as the presidential election.

President Obama's health care plan is badly flawed precisely because it was designed around the insurance industry, a huge money-spinner in the U.S. economy, and money-pit in the household economies of American families. Senator Sanders' plan would cut the insurance industry out of most health-care spending. How do you think that's going to fly, knowing what you should know by now about how politics is financed in the United States?

Likewise, taxing Wall Street to fund post-secondary education for the un-monied classes is a non-starter in the absence of a revolution in public thinking about the significance of (a) education and (b) social mobility to the well-being of the American polity.

I'm not holding my breath on that.

The pragmatic Mrs Clinton, with all her history of compromises, looks like somebody who can muscle a legislative program past the obstacle course of Congress -- Realpolitik is her middle name. Democrats more interested in winning the election than in overturning their society are planning to vote for her.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,#
Date: 17 Mar 16 - 08:21 AM

The 'left' you keep talking about doesn't exist as a cohesive organization. Neither does the 'right'. Never has. Look at large interest groups to consdier what that means. The groups under the umbrella of left/right politics change from year to year and it's easy to assume that either group 'thinks' as a unit. Neither does.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Mar 16 - 08:43 AM

We all come at these events in terms of being all about Trumo.

In one sense it is BUT it is equally about all the people who will vote for Trump.

There are Americans who are prominent on this website, who are considering voting for Trump. Right now they are worried about their status and their persona that they have carefully constructed. They risk losing respect should they announce their support for Donald.

At some point they will feel that it is OK to stump for Trump.
It might be after the convention or even later.

Profiling who these people are tend to the religious side. They will nor be the usual gang we would most expect.

I have a time machine that travels into the eternal NOW. It doesn't go to the past or future. It delivers just a simple message.
It is a message that if the German people had heard they would not have allowed Adolf near the Chancellery.

What is that message that is stronger than the mob, stronger than emotional lies that feel good? What words will make them
WAKE UP


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Mar 16 - 08:49 AM

For the party of Ronald Reagan, its Mourning in America


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Mar 16 - 09:51 AM

Charmion nailed it the first time, a perfect 10. Many like what Bernie says, but know that an obstructionist House and Senate aren't going to let it happen. Hillary has been around the block a few times and knows how to broker a deal. If you'll remember, she was roundly criticized for working on a health care initiative during Bill's terms in office - the insurance companies ganged up when they got wind of her interest in a single-payer system that cut them out. Many of us hope that is still lurking in the background, and and older, wiser, and case-hardened Hillary can get closer to that ideal.

Trump, to his (minuscule) credit, doesn't disagree with everything the GOP tends to. He thinks birth control and abortion should be available, and some of his business and trade attitudes have caught the ears of a few Democrats. But even a stopped clock is right twice a day - don't assume because he takes a couple of more liberal stances that he would serve a liberal agenda. Far from it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Mar 16 - 09:59 AM

Thanks Charmion and #.....excellent summation.

I still think that to change society will take several decades and a start must be made somewhere.
In the UK Mr Corbyn was elected leader by the rank and file left, he has no hope of winning an election to form a government. he realises that and most of his supporters realise that.....but the important thing is that he will be explaining and educating the UK public on how socialism is going to work.
We could have voted for a Blair clone(like Mrs Clinton) who could have been "nationally electable" but in another decade we would be no further forward regarding the construction of a fairer society and economic structure.

This is the situation with the US, people with a socialist viewpoint need to play the long game and part of that game is to fracture the stranglehold that the corporations and their servants the Political Parties have over the socioeconomic system.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: keberoxu
Date: 17 Mar 16 - 11:30 AM

....good riddance to bad rubbish....whew.

This was posted to the closed thread. Maybe it's acceptable, maybe not:

"Trump doesn't know it yet, but he will become one of the guys that he hates very soon. Soon he will be a loser. He's a very poor man who only possesses money."
Alejandro González Iñárritu,
page 64, Rolling Stone magazine,
February 25, 2016

This interview, I would guess, took place before the Academy Awards ceremony with its awards to The Revenant.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Mar 16 - 11:35 AM

Thanks, Charmion and Acme. I am for Bernie Sanders and if he should get the nomination AND the presidency mine will join the voices of millions. However, if he does not win either, I will work for Hillary Clinton just as hard.

I think Hillary would have a good chance at ramming through a good many of her plans. She knows how the powers work, is forceful and practical and realistic and she has friends in high places. True, she also has enemies in high places, and a goodly share of the country's voters don't trust her. But. I think she may go down in history as another FDR.

Bernie, on the other hand, dreams big and has, for years. That's part of the alarm in my mind. He has been in the legislature for years- and nothing has changed. Indeed, things have gotten much worse.

Can you imagine Bernie being more successful in pushing his agenda than the President has been?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Mar 16 - 12:07 PM

Bernie, in the parlance of this race, has a path forward. He has ongoing money, he has a mathematical possibility to win and he has the upper hand if Hillary is indicted or stumbles

FDR had a much more favorable Congress but Bernie should still claim the sweeping changes and paths that FDR had.

It has been done before and we can do it again.

As for what music will bring us forward I prefer to be whispered to than shouted at.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,#
Date: 17 Mar 16 - 01:29 PM

And here's a nightmare scenario for everyone.

Cruz gets the Republican nomination.
Trump runs as an independent.
Hillary gets the Democrat nomination.
Sanders runs as an independent.

Sweet dreams.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,Richard Bridge on the Intel Quad Core
Date: 17 Mar 16 - 02:02 PM

I had not realised (if it be true) that Drumpf had said anything sensible about abortion or contraception.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Peter the Squeezer
Date: 17 Mar 16 - 02:53 PM

Am I alone in wondering what Tom Lehrer would make of Donald.

On the subject of George W Bush, he is quoted as "I'm not tempted to write a song about George W. Bush. I couldn't figure out what sort of song I would write. That's the problem: I don't want to satirise George Bush and his puppeteers, I want to vaporize them - and that's not funny."


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Mar 16 - 04:17 PM

The trump folks hate the black folks
and the black folks hate the trump folks
To grate all but the right folks
Is American as Donald's lies

Lets hear it for guns and walls
camps and jails
That's where all our neighbors work
when DONALD tRUMP acts like a jerk

Its fun to eulogize
someone you despise
the only thing you really have to fear
Is trump every day and night for years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Mar 16 - 06:12 PM

I see quite a number of "black folks" speaking at Mr Trump's meetings?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Mar 16 - 07:17 PM

Does my Tom song work better with " brown folks"?
Or is this 60 year old song not PC enough.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,#
Date: 17 Mar 16 - 07:26 PM

'I see quite a number of "black folks" speaking at Mr Trump's meetings?'

Stupidity isn't restricted to non-Blacks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,LynnH
Date: 18 Mar 16 - 03:58 AM

The other day I happened to notice that the edition of USA Today at the local newsagent had a cover picture of Trump giving a two fingered gesture that we in the UK know well as 'Go forth and multiply'..........


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Peter the Squeezer
Date: 18 Mar 16 - 04:23 AM

No Lynn

It only means he's learnt to count that far.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 18 Mar 16 - 05:02 AM

Meanwhile here in The UK, The Guardian newspaper has run an article reminding us that The Simpsons, sixteen years ago, did an episode looking into the future portraying The USA hitting rock bottom. They came up with ludicrous ideas and ran with the one where Trump becomes President.

You know, there a myth over here that Americans don't understand irony. One way of blowing the idea out of the water I suppose.....

Mind you, some over here are somewhat confused over language. Left and right over here would translate as commie and goddam commie, whilst Bernie's left would be comfortable in the cabinet of our rather right wing government. So this is why we seemed confused when Obama didn't close Guantanamo, based his health reforms, however well intentioned on the share price of a few insurance multinationals and carried on bombing the fuck out of the Middle East. We were reliably informed he was left wing...

Still, all a sideshow. I have a degree of faith in the US electorate. Bush got in first time on a dubious technicality and second time by scaring people into wanting strong arm foreign policy. I spend more time reading articles about what President Elect Clinton is going to do than irrelevant sideshow circuses.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Mar 16 - 05:48 AM

Hi Don, I don't care about PC nonsense, but seriously, I've seen a couple of meetings where black people were on camera supporting Mr Trump and there appeared to be quite a few black faces in the audience?

I suppose they could have been "plants", but it's even stranger to see supposed centre left people on here supporting someone who is in the employment of the corporations and has a dreadful record in foreign affairs?

Is it really as # says, all about winning elections where the electorate have no real choice?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Mar 16 - 07:18 AM

Hey Guys, you in the USA, this is one of you. He has the right idea.
www.ted.com/talks/arthur_brooks_a_conservative_s_plea_let_s_work_together
But if ever there was a demonstration of "pissing into the wind" this was it, sadly.

(Trump and wind - pun intended)


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 18 Mar 16 - 07:30 AM

Ake, there are very few black people at the Trump rallies that I've seen on television.

One of his ads implies quite the opposite.

He's been endorsed by a small group of black pastors, one of whom has strongly urged Bernie Sanders to turn to Jesus.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,#
Date: 18 Mar 16 - 08:15 AM

In many ways, akenaton, this election is about something more than just this election. It's about the kind of world people want to have. Every vote cast is the expression of a person's desire to have things work in certain ways. Forget the candidates for a while and look at the audiences. They will tell more about a candidate than any pundit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Mar 16 - 09:11 AM

The black faces in the Trump rallies are called "protesters," Akenaton. They have something AGAINST Trump. And they are often pushed, shoved, and punched on their way out while being "escorted" out of the room.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Charmion
Date: 18 Mar 16 - 09:39 AM

I hope the Blickifier is working today, 'cause here's a really interesting video on HuffPost's Facebook page:

Win or Lose, Bernie Sanders Has Changed America

It's a public post, so non-members should be able to see it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 18 Mar 16 - 11:56 AM

I like how you put "protesters" rather than protesters. Helps him get things into his perspective.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Mar 16 - 12:33 PM

Yes Charmion that is exactly what I was getting at further up the thread.   It's not about "electability". It's about educating the populace and a vote for Mrs Clinton seems to me to be a reinforcement of the status quo?

The PUB/ DEM machine has America in chains.....sometime, somewhere, somehow, the mould has to be broken.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Mar 16 - 12:34 PM

On Facebook today there is an offering (paraphrased): To American voters this is an election. To foreigners it is an intelligence test.

There is one hopeful element in all this: We can't go much lower. We ARE dumbed down.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Mar 16 - 12:53 PM

I assume that everybody has picked up the news that an enquiry by The Economist team has listed Thump as more of a threat to world security than Al Qaeda
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Mar 16 - 01:01 PM

I had a conversation today with a middle aged man who seems to know what is at stake regarding a runaway right wing movement.

As strangers h took me or an academic and I sensed he was being sincere.
Incredibly he admitted he would leave this country if a Trump order took over despite the safeguards America has to prevent a take over of the Republic by know nothings.

When Ebbie said something similar I assume it was half in jest.

I am sobered that people have considered escape rather than than stay.

It seems so soon to consider such things today.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Mar 16 - 02:26 PM

a vote for Mrs Clinton seems to me to be a reinforcement of the status quo

Oh yes??? As opposed to?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Mar 16 - 03:12 PM

Mr Sanders of course, and arguably Mr Trump.

If you want change you have to split the cosy PUB/DEM monopoly.
Perhaps Mr Trump will be forced to lead a third party?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Mar 16 - 03:24 PM

Acme....I saw the disruption in Chicago, it looked like fascism to me, demonstrators have the right to demonstrate, not disrupt a legal political rally regardless if whether you support or oppose the views being promoted.
I disregard what happened in Chicago completely and condemn it, as you would quite rightly do if Mrs Clinton's meetings were being hi-jacked.

The black folks I refer to were at peaceful meetings.....not many but enough and some spoke quite forcibly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Mar 16 - 03:49 PM

ake, when you say: "demonstrators have the right to demonstrate, not disrupt a legal political rally ", do you mean they have the right to show up but not to speak?

Question: When a non-supporter feels that it is imperative to gain the attention of his country in regards to the non-appropriateness of an individual seeking office- and getting perilously close to it - what would you advise that person/group to do? Personally, I think that many of Trump's "supporters" have no idea of what life would be like under his rule.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Mar 16 - 04:20 PM

Akenaton Even your namesake was a renegade populist winning candidate for Pharaoh. I will not condemn or condone your selection but something tells me , you may in the final analysis go for Trump.
In this country the secret ballot is still the norm.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Mar 16 - 04:26 PM

Who said we want change? We want the existing system to work better. We don't want self-centered despots to break things. It is continually suggested that "insiders" and life-long politicians are a problem. Some of them are, but most of them aren't. They are working in public service - just like teachers, librarians, state and federal employees, and more. Trump is clueless as to how government really works. The learning curve is treacherous for an outsider whose main skills are grandstanding and firing people.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,#
Date: 18 Mar 16 - 06:07 PM

Could anyone point me to a single Donald Trump policy? A published and endorsed political platform? For that matter I'd like to see any from Republican candidates.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: frogprince
Date: 18 Mar 16 - 06:25 PM

Here's at least somethin' on candidate positions, including a bunch of the dropouts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: frogprince
Date: 18 Mar 16 - 06:30 PM

And here's the page I thought I was getting


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: frogprince
Date: 18 Mar 16 - 06:34 PM

There are links for Cruz and Rubio spliced in the rundown on Trump.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,#
Date: 18 Mar 16 - 08:19 PM

Thank you, frogprince.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Mar 16 - 08:25 PM

May I recommend a new novel "Ocean's 88"

It is about a Casino owner that runs for President of the United States.
All the while he is placing Vegas bets on the odds of winning or losing. Meanwhile His casino is so highly leveraged he can not pay the interest. He starts taking his presidential bets and winnings to pay the interest with chips to keep his financial difficulty a secret.

The Vegas gaming board gets wind of this. Read the dramatic twisted conclusion when the future of the UNITED STATES is in the hands of Tony Toenails, Heindrich Rummp and multi national corporate stock owners.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Mar 16 - 08:49 PM

Watch the hijinks ensue when a casino owner running for President bets against himself and says the worst things imaginable to win his bet. But instead he loses billions UNTIL he switches strategy and makes enough money to buy China.

Don't miss 'Ocean's 88' now at Wallgreen's lottery counter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Mar 16 - 12:36 AM

Donuel: "It is about a Casino owner that runs for President of the United States.
All the while he is placing Vegas bets on the odds of winning or losing. Meanwhile His casino is so highly leveraged he can not pay the interest."

While, meanwhile the interest on the 'loans' for printing money, is so highly leveraged we can't pay our national 'debt'.....so they back the two parties, they pay off to make that happen...and the two parties get to promote more debt, and fool people that it's for their own 'good'. When that gets called to the attention of the people, the two parties scream bloody murder...then you get two 'outsider' candidates(Trump and Sanders), who speak to the anger of the people, and the 'establishment' of status quo, do everything to discredit them.
That being said, without those who understand that, favoring either one.

Just an objective observation.

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 19 Mar 16 - 01:56 AM

I'm still giggling over the comment that in The USA this is an election whilst to the rest of us it's an intelligence test..😂


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Mar 16 - 03:15 AM

:~/ Afraid it is true.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Mar 16 - 04:30 AM

".I saw the disruption in Chicago, it looked like fascism to me,"
Describing those who showed their opposition to Trump the way they did as 'fascists' shows an ignorance of what Trump is and is doing and it is deeply insulting to people who care enough to stop him - it is tantamount to saying the same of those who took to the streets of Britain to oppose Mosely and his Blackshirts.
Trump's campaign has been hate-filled, belligerent, devisive and threatening to millions of Americans - much of it verges on open racism.
It would be surprising and a little disappointing if he had not been met with some half-decent opposition, rather than the political waffle we have seen so far - lets hope for more of it.
He is a crude political thug whose debating skills are little more than rabble-rousing and in the unthinkable event of him winning America will end up with a Reagan/Bush/Goldwater/Joe McCarthy all rolled into one, without the dubious skills of his political forbears - a hate-monger at the time when the world desperately needs a peacemaker.
WHAT HIS OWN KIND ARE SAYING   
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: akenaton
Date: 19 Mar 16 - 04:47 AM

Jim, you either continue the pretence of "democracy" or you show the evil underbelly of the Capitalist system.
There is no chance that the system will "come clean" about how it really operates.

Systemic change can only come from education of the population, it is too late for the revolution, they are far too well organised.
Education involves the removal of personal financial aspiration as a driver for the economy and society. Without its removal, any nationalised health or education programme is doomed to failure.
That failure is already evident in the NHS and the UK education system, both being abused by those who run them, those who work in them and many of those who use them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Mar 16 - 05:04 AM

"Jim, you either continue the pretence of "democracy""
True democracy is when we all have a voice - the only voice the ordinary people have at the present time is when they take to the streets.
Trump has bought his way to where he is - how democratic is that - if he can run roughshod over 'democracy', why not the man in the street?
"Systemic change can only come from education of the population, "
Utter nonsense - the system that is in need of change controls the machinery of education and the media - no system has ever allowed itself to be replaced without violent offering opposition - civil wars, military and political coups and open repression - all real change has been brought about by violent reaction to all these.
That small groups of people should express their feelings towards this rabble-rousing hate-monger is far from fascism, quite the opposite, and you really should hang your head in shame at such a suggestion - but there again - Trump is from a 'reliable gene pool'.   
It's rather typical that you should blame us all for the failures, weaknesses and problems of the N.H.S. and education, rather than an ailing society which finds them both unprofitable and inconvenient and would be glad to see them put into private hands, just like the good old days.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 19 Mar 16 - 05:52 AM

I have to disagree with you Jim. Education is the only sustainable method to change the system. Violence breeds violence.

Have a read about the formation of the Mondragon Co-operative. It is really quite enlightened and started by a catholic priest by all things.

I did a thesis on it years ago, truly fascinating.
Mondragon


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Mar 16 - 06:17 AM

"Education is the only sustainable method to change the system"
Then while the education system remains the under the control of the state and the most influential sections of the media dedicates itself to maintaining the status quo, things will either remain the same or deteriorate.
No society has ever introduced significant changes willingly - obtaining national suffrage, votes for women better working conditions - all results of sometimes vioent opposition to peaceful protest.
Steps towards real democracy were brought about as a direct result of two woreld wars, and the really important ones brought in after WW2 by the Labour Government have now virtually been torn to shreds - nationalisation, social housing, free health care for all... all systematically destroyed.
Trump is little more than ailing capitalism digging its heels in to make the result of its own contradictions disappear - a fascist plaster for a gaping wound.
It is significant that nations such as Cuba, China and the former U.S.S.R all introduced massive improvements to their education systems once the changes had been put into place, but that was only made possible by mobilising the uneducated in the first place.
One of the golden rules of all repressive systems is that you don't educate slaves, especially not to improve their lot.
How exactly do you envision education changing anything as things stand at the present?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 19 Mar 16 - 06:27 AM

Jim, Read the link and you will see how Jose Maria Arizmendiarrieta educated people to realise the potential of a co-operative structure.

He did this in the face of a fascist regime and succeeded. It can be done (and to my mind should be done) without violence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 19 Mar 16 - 07:38 AM

Chicken and egg Jim, how are you going to ensure people act to change the system without educating them that the system 1.needs to be changed and 2.can be changed.

Education to my mind HAS to come first.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 19 Mar 16 - 07:42 AM

Just as an aside Jim both my father and I attended WEA classes and learnt a great deal and we both taught WEA classes, my father more than I. Without the WEA I would never have managed to get a University place, I will be eternally grateful for that opportunity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Mar 16 - 08:07 AM

"how are you going to ensure people act to change the system without educating them that the system "
People don't attempt to change things because of intellectual commitment - they do so out of necessity - very much a knee-jerk reaction.
It may take intellectual leadership, but as Lenin said "we are not to be trusted - the answer lies with the workers".
The Russian Revolution was by no means a 'politically thought-out cause' - it was a reaction to the slaughter of WW1 which forced the soldiers to abandon it and simply go home - the politicos had to run to keep up.
Castro and Che took advantage of the fact that Cuba was owned by a tiny handful of families which allowed the country to become "America's open sewer"
The "Long March" in China arose from massive feudal poverty - not text-book intellectualising.
Vietnam was the result of a quarter of a century's warfare with Japan, France and the U.S., not political campaigning.....
Education can produce leaders; it can never produce revolutions.
When people take the situation into their own hands and out of the hands of the politicians (of every shade), that's when genuine change will happen, and it will be the product of zero-contract employment, accelerated homelessness, increasing poverty and recurring economic crises, not text-book learning.
If the left is worth anything it will seek to be part of that.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Mar 16 - 08:26 AM

Amazing, has anyone actually seen the video I offered where the proposition is cooperation rather than what we see right now confrontation?
From the above it would not seem to be the case. Rather revealing!


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Mar 16 - 08:30 AM

Voting in a primary is a purely symbolic act as determined by party rules

Voting in a general election is a partially symbolic act.

The factors that can change a popular vote are numerable.

We all have recently seen Corrupt Diebold machines, voter eradication, voter suppression, State election commissions and the Supreme Court change the popular vote.

There are many more tricks of the trade in a general election.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 19 Mar 16 - 09:03 AM

Jim, None of the examples you cite have ultimately been successful. I would suggest one of the reasons for this, if not the main reason is that the populace were not educated to accept that an alternative was possible. I say again a prior education is vital for any change to be rewarding to the mass of people.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Mar 16 - 09:03 AM

"Amazing, has anyone actually seen the video "
Kept getting "server not found". Mr Red - situation not changed
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 19 Mar 16 - 09:07 AM

Bugger ! Delete the NOT after ultimately.

I Must check before submitting
I Must check before submitting
I Must check before submitting
I Must check before submitting
I Must check before submitting
I Must check before submitting

Got it! But what a cute reminder to all of us to proof read.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Mar 16 - 09:19 AM

"None of the examples you cite have ultimately not been successful"
All of them became successful to a degree - Russia moved from being a massive, semi-feudal mess to a leading industrial nation in a relatively short time, despite a devisive Civil participated in by 14 invading countries, a World War that produced the highest number of fatalities and casualty of all participating nations, a Cold War which forced it to turn in on itself and an appalling misjudgment on its own part in allowing a monster to take over State leadership
It was not the dream taht was flawed but the pursuit of that dream.
China, pretty well the same - a feudal State which has developed into a contender on the world stage - again - in the wrong hands for all sorts of reasons - not the dream.
Cuba is a virtual miracle in managing to survive next door to a hostile leading world power which has virtually blocked trade with the outside world since its inception, despite which, it has kept the U.S. at arms length (after 80 attempts to assassinate its leader).
Notably, education and medical care is top of the agenda in all of these countries.
Once a revolutionary step is taken, there are many factors in making sure that the outcome is a beneficial one, not all of which are within the control of the dreamers.
That is where education comes in.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: akenaton
Date: 19 Mar 16 - 12:37 PM

"Once a revolutionary step is taken, there are many factors in making sure that the outcome is a beneficial one, not all of which are within the control of the dreamers.
That is where education comes in.
Jim Carroll "

Wrong, wrong, wrong Jim, after a revolution....that is where "re-education" comes in.......along with all the horrors of imposition.

People need to grow into a new economic and social system, it has to be explained, the change of mindset to become accepted, the wrongs of the old system illustrated......we are rapidly approaching the stage when people start to look for alternatives to the failed status quo.
Mrs Clinton will never provide these alternatives, promote a vision for the future, or inspire your people.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: akenaton
Date: 19 Mar 16 - 12:43 PM

It would have been great if a figure from the left could have been acceptable to the US or UK, but it is too soon, these people(Corbyn and Sanders) must be teachers, not leaders.

To succeed change must come from the right at their pace.

The most important thing is the demolition of the old corrupt 2 Party System.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Mar 16 - 01:16 PM

"these people(Corbyn and Sanders) must be teachers, not leaders."
And tread water while jobs become less and less, zero contracts become a commonplace, homelessness accelerates, the NHS deteriorates even further....
Pie in the sky.
Capitalism has now abandoned all pretence of investing for development and is now simple investment for profit.
It suits the investors that the country buys abroad and produces nothing.
The big U.S. crash in of 2008 (depicted in the film, The Big Short') showed that the system was prepared to float the entire American economy on the property market, which, when it crashed, brought down the world markets.
You really don't need to 'educate' people as to what's happening, as with the bankers scandal, they are carrying the can back for corporate greed.
No political group is going to get support from standing by and watching things get worse and then saying "there, I told you so", politics doesn't work like that.
The western world is swinging towards the extreme right, turning the people against each other; immigrants, refugees, "greedy workers" rather than the avaricious and failing system- Trump is at present the figurehead of things too come #It is partonising arrogance to suggest anybody is capable of "educating"
"the demolition of the old corrupt 2 Party System."
What with - a bulldozer - gi'e us a break!!
Any ground the left has ever won has been on the basis of its involvent with the mundane, day-to-day causes - not by arrogantly claiming to be 'teachers'
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: akenaton
Date: 19 Mar 16 - 01:56 PM

Jim, you should know that three quarters of our population do not understand or want socialism....how do you sell the idea that most of the middle class, what's left of the working class and the ultra rich are going to be worse off financially under socialism....and there is no pointing denying that fact.
Social services must be paid for, wages and resources. It takes time to convince people that they will never win the lottery, that their high rise kids are not all going to be medical consultants.
That under this system class and money get you to the top and that these poor bastards don't have enough of either to get their mucky boots on the first fuckin' rung of the ladder.

Getting these things through takes time, but continually voting for the "best of the worst" sets us back decades.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Mar 16 - 02:59 PM

"Jim, you should know that three quarters of our population do not understand or want socialism."
My point exactly - they will react to the conditions they are forced to endure, just as the Russian soldiers in WW! did, or the Chinese peasants, or the Cubans who were forced to watch while their daughters were forced to 'entertain' the Yankee tourists....
People do not act on ideology - they do so to feed their families, or to stay alive.
Which is why your talk of "education" is nonsense.
Of course the working class would not be worse off under socialism - some people would benefit if things stayed as they were, but more people would lose their jobs and homes, or suffer from the terminally ill health service.....
The bottom rung of your "ladder" has long been out of reach of most people in Britain.
We have not long had a recession, brought on by the greed of the banks; before that it was the U.S. financial market crash - another is predicted shortly.
Britain no longer has a manufacturing industry and even the Tory pundits have said it is beyond the point of salvage.
What on earth is your point - that we place our opes in Donald Trump, Boris Boris Johnson and Ukip maybe!!!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: keberoxu
Date: 19 Mar 16 - 03:03 PM

Hugh Laurie, interviewed for the March 21, 2016 issue of TV Guide Magazine [in North America].
Quote:
Trump is absolutely fascinating. I've been trying to discern how, or if, his brain works from his language. I hope that his buildings are better constructed than his sentences....he said [Marco] Rubio was sweating like a dog. He picked the one animal that has no sweat glands. It's just classic Trump.
Actually, I shouldn't even be saying anything about him. I'm English, I'm a visitor, and I'm very grateful to be a visitor, so I ought to mind my manners and shut the f*** up.
Endquote


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 19 Mar 16 - 04:05 PM

Jim,

Unless the general population can be given access to information, unless they are given an education as to what is actually possible if they stand together they will continue to be subjected to the "rules" of those who control the finances of the country.

To suggest that "talk of education is nonsense" is utter bollocks. Unless or until people are educated we will continue to suffer the rule of a minority who control the wealth.

I am afraid it is that sort of argument which sustains the present situation.

Before you do your expected knee-jerk reaction please spend a little time to consider what is being said.

Thank you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 20 Mar 16 - 03:40 AM

Trump got started from humble beginnings, just the million dollars his father gave him apparently.

Despite incoherent ramblings from the usual suspects, meritocracy is something The USA claims to be proud of but doesn't always exist whilst here in The UK, you can achieve the Stars the limit without any background presuming so. (The ignoble art of blaming everyone else got your own failed existence seems to be in evidence here as usual. If our American friends read what certain muppets are typing, they'd get a very distorted view of us. Bernie would sit rather well in our right wing government whilst you call him left wing.)

Still, I'm with Hugh Lawrie on this one. Although I'm not in The USA at the minute so will mouth off with the rest of them. Let's just hope Clinton will not be hamstrung in the way her predecessor has been.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Mar 16 - 04:03 AM

missing the http://
http://www.ted.com/talks/arthur_brooks_a_conservative_s_plea_let_s_work_together Should work now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Mar 16 - 04:10 AM

"Unless the general population can be given access to information, unless they are given an education as to what is actually possible if they stand together they will continue to be subjected to the "rules" of those who control the finances of the country."
Talk of "giving the people access to knowledge" implies that knowledge is by an exclusive group of people able to pass it on to the masses - somewhat exclusive, elitist.
I suggest you read something like 'Ten Days That Shook the World'; probably the most important account of revolutionary change ever written (by American reporter, John Reid, who witnessed the October Revolution in Russia - later to be made into a passable film - Reds).
The point that comes over in the book is that nobody had a 'master plan' for changing the world - it was all done by on-the-spot debate and argument.
Nobody has the answers - the Communist experiment failed, so nobody wants to go that way again - the 'great leaders of the past' let the people down by either getting it wrong or selling out.
Whatever changes are needed will have to be sorted out on a suck-it-and-see basis which will be arrived at argument and discussion by people who are experiencing the effects of a society in crisis demanding that what is happening to them stops.
Simple question Raggy - who do you believe has "the knowledge" to educate "the masses" - who are today's keepers of the keys to a better life - where to we go for these 'teachers'?
Who are your great thinkers - mine are all dead or turned out to have clay feet.
We make use of what we have available and trust to our own instincts and knowledge.
Information has never been more available and accessible than it is today - what is needed is a forum to thrash that information out, not intellectual supermen (and women).
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Mar 16 - 06:55 AM

Jim, are you mad?   A socialist revolution would be immediately stamped out with great loss of life....the general public just would not support it.

Raggytash and I don't usually agree, but he is correct that long term thinking is required, to educate and most importantly to separate "liberalism" from socialism.

The two are incompatible.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 20 Mar 16 - 07:11 AM

Err you don't "educate" nonsense, you indoctrinate it. zzzz


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Mar 16 - 07:24 AM

"A socialist revolution would be immediately stamped out with great loss of life."
Ah well, better stick with the slaughter going on in Syria, Gaza, Iraq..... and all the other trouble-spots Capitalism has instigated and be contented with increased unemployment, homelessness and the accelerating gap between haves and have-nots.
The greatest threat to human life and well being in the West at present lies in Europe and the U.S. with a rising threat of Fascism in both.
But as the song says

"So close your eyes, stop your ears,
Close your mouth and never dare;
And if it happens here, they'll never come for you,
Because they'll know you really didn't care"
I still find your hatred of liberalism bizarre to the extreme (laterally)
Please go and buy a dictionary
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Mar 16 - 07:35 AM

What is left of the elite Republican party is going to form a 3rd party

They are playing to lose. To defeat Trump they are bringing out their crack suicide troops.

What will this 3rd party be called?

LETS NAME IT;

my name for it is The Salamander Party because
It is tiny, almost extinct and slimy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Mar 16 - 08:06 AM

"Should work now."
Thanks Mr Red - listened to it through yesterday through a convoluted search.
Nice idea based on the fallacy that Capitalism is about actually producing something rathe than just profiting from investment.
It now suits (certainly British) capitalism not to produce anything but to buy from countries whose workers work in appalling conditions for less than substance wages.
The U.S. crash of eight years ago was due entirely to America putting its money into the property market and the only ones who made anything from it were those who gambled on its failure - which it did, bringing the world's economy with it.
The secone major crisis came greedy greedy Bankers pressurising their customers to over-borrow.
Sandwithced in between was the property boom/crash.
That is the modern capitalism your man is suggesting as the saviour of mankind
Old capitalism, for all its faults, was based on creation and building - it gave us the Golden Age of invention, among other miracles.
Now it's just short term, fast buck profiteering - the benevolent entrepreneurialism is long dead, if it ever existed to the extent of being of any lasting value to the whole of society.
A middle-class pipe-dream
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Mar 16 - 09:53 AM

my name for it is The Salamander Party because

That is a gross slander on noble amphibians.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,#
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 01:10 AM

The 'mainstream' media have made clear where they stand. Trump has received 23 times the exposure Sanders has. When all people hear is hate they begin to get used to the sound of it. I hope this type of media is destroyed by what they are doing.


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Subject: BS: Trump - server or mod sabotage?
From: GUEST,Richard Bridge on the Intel 4-core running E
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 08:46 AM

Fuck, the bloody post eater did it again. Four times on the trot.

Maybe the thread has been censored out of existence.

It seems that people are not considereing the analyses of the rise in fascism and authoritarianism in the USA.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_revenge_of_the_lower_classes_and_the_rise_of_american_fascism_20160302#.Vu71ZCp8A2w.face

http://www.vox.com/2016/3/1/11127424/trump-authoritarianism


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump - server or mod sabotage?
From: GUEST,#
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 09:05 AM

The problem is that you are trying to do two hot-links in the same post while you're on Mudcat as a guest. This came up a few years back, FYI. That's why your post had such difficulty being accepted.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,JeffB
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 10:11 AM

Ake, a lot of people will disagree that liberalism and socialism are incompatible. You mean (I assume) "socialism" in the American sense as a synonym for "communism". No-one in Europe makes that mistake when talking politics, which means there will usually be misunderstandings whenever socialism is mentioned on internet forums.

In the UK we are at least as democratic and liberal as Americans, but our culture includes socialist institutions, such as the National Health Service (at least, we have a remnant of an NHS still surviving for the time being). We also pay welfare for unemployed and disabled people, as do US State governments. Welfare payments are always going to be controversial, but as far as I know, no American mainstream commentator has said that welfare benefits are socialist. They are, of course, but they are acceptable even to Americans.

There are elements of socialism in every liberal Western political culture. Socialism is a spectrum of measures whose use varies from country to country. Communism is a 100% top-down command structure.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Jeri
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 10:29 AM

Richard, you can log in on any computer, as long as that computer accepts cookies. Then you can post a bunch of links and not have to tell us about your hardware. I know guys like to talk about that stuff, but it takes effort better used to complain about something. 😉


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,Richard Bridge on the Intel Quad Core
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 11:03 AM

Well, if the Repuglitard candidates can tell us about their hardware, fnar fnar, so can I!


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: keberoxu
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 11:29 AM

The Trumpasaurus Rex ate your post.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 01:32 PM

U.S. Social Security and Medicare are socialist programs.

Not even Ted Cruz talks about eliminating them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 01:57 PM

Thanks Jeff nice to see a civil response here on Mudcat.
The NHS was a socialist concept, the problem is that under a Capitalist economic system such concepts come under huge pressures and go the way of our NHS which is now routinely abused by almost everyone from top management, drug companies, PFI initiatives, right down to patients who claim all sorts of services, simply because they see themselves as having the right to do so.

The personal rights culture does not sit well with the needs of a wider society, as resources diminish and the Capitalist cycle swings away from the developed West sacrifices are going ton have to be made, we are no longer in a position to "have it all".

If our population do not understand that, they must be educated into understanding, if they are unwilling they must be made aware that the values of capitalism will no longer apply.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 02:14 PM

I would also add, that a society dependent on large scale welfare benefits is not IMO a socialist one.
"Benefits" should be a last resort and society should be driven by the wish to contribute in the common good, not take as much as possible for oneself.
Our lifestyle over the last couple of decades has become unsustainable, waste and greed abounds the time has come for a dose of reality. I was a CP member for forty years, in that time I divined the true nature of Capitalism and where it would eventually lead....we are almost there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 02:56 PM

A FUN Idea:

One conductor at a Trump rally will push hi send button when Trump says something outrageously stupid, daft or lie to have hundreds or thousands of people to start laughing and keep it up for 90 seconds.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 03:58 PM

"The personal rights culture does not sit well with the needs of a wider society,"
Personal rights are just that - personal rights and taking them away is an abuse of democracy.
Those who need that are suffering enough under this crappy system to have to live under the threat of having them taken away because the system isn't working.
How about tacking the rapidly growing gap between haves and have nots before you question our rights - or doesn't that fall withing the remit of your particular brand of "socialism"
Would you equally demote all those bankers and financial advisors whos ent the economy crashing in flames a few years ago - or all those parliamentarians who were found to be milking the taxpayers for non-existent expenses - or all those companies who have manipulated their finances so they don't pay any tax - nah - course not - far easi8er to blame working people and make them carry the can.
Bloody right-wingers!!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 04:18 PM

"Would you equally demote all those bankers and financial advisors who sent the economy crashing in flames a few years ago - or all those parliamentarians who were found to be milking the taxpayers for non-existent expenses - or all those companies who have manipulated their finances so they don't pay any tax - nah - course not - far easi8er to blame working people and make them carry the can."

Jim these organisations are the capitalist system, a disgrace that I've spoken and demonstrated against all my life.
It will certainly implode some day, but I am more interesting in what type of society will replace it. The culture of "self" and personal rights will be no better than a money based system, it is cynically used by the capitalists to retain power.....they say we have "equality" when evidently we do not. Health and education can still be bought and passed on to the wealthy in society.....how many ex public school boys are on the benches of Westminster?

Any equality granted is of no importance and never calls the system to question......THE PEOPLE...."Its own are all things between earth and heaven;
But this it knows not; and if one arise
To tell this truth, it kills him unforgiven" Tommasso Campanella.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 04:43 PM

Bad news for anti Semitic Clinton supporters


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 05:48 PM

Not even Ted Cruz talks about eliminating them.

No, just privatizing them - which amounts to the same thing. This has been part of the Republicrap agenda for years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,Richard Bridge on the Intel Quad Core
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 06:43 PM

Recognising that Israel is an interloper and oppressor, and inter alia must hand back much of what it has stolen is not anti-semitic, but anti-Zionist. It is also one area (AFAIK the only area) where Trump is talking more sense than any other US presidential hopeful.

And I note that nobody has, apparently, read the two interesting articles I linked to.

To base the concept on a post-capitalistic society on the absence of rights is, frankly, appalling.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,#
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 08:20 PM

The rise of authoritarianism has been being discussed in the US for seven years that I'm aware of.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 08:49 PM

"Jim these organisations are the capitalist system, a disgrace that I've spoken and demonstrated against all my life."
Meaningless words Ake, words.
Why are you suggesting that a "strong leader" is needed - why are you suggesting that rights are expendable or unimportant, why are you suggesting that we have to make sacrifices
- I asked about penalising the bankers, and the politicians - you reply with politicians gibberish.
Where is the answer to my question - why should we make sacrifices when predators like Google can do deals to avoid the tax they owe
Why should bankers retain their jobs after they have sent the economy tumbling over and over again - why should politicians who have been found to have been milking the country remain in parliament.... ???
Your answer lies in your silence - it's easier that we should make the sacrifices and leave them where they are to continue their predatory bahaviour
Where is your actual acknowledgement that these people have even done anything reprehensible?
NOWHERE.
You would rather we make the sacrifice
Socialism is about giving rights to all - not suggesting they be removed.
You are no more a socialist than I am the Dalai Lama   
"To base the concept on a post-capitalistic society on the absence of rights is, frankly, appalling"
You said it Richard- this guy's socialism missed out the N word, I'm afraid.
Jim Carroll.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 10:09 PM

Bad news for anti Semitic Clinton supporters

Which "anti Semitic Clinton supporters" might those be, Pharoah?

You do have a real bug up you're arse about Clinton, don't you?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,Richard Bridge on the Intel Quad Core
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 11:16 PM

Guest at 0820 - but did you read either of the articles I linked to?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,#
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 11:51 PM

You mean Guest,# at 8:20. And yes I did.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump II- The Horror Continues
From: GUEST,#
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 11:58 PM

Here's one for Guest at 21 Mar 16 - 11:16 PM

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/the_end_of_america/2009/08/how_is_america_going_to_end_2.html


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This Thread Is Closed.


Mudcat time: 4 April 8:59 AM EDT

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