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BS: I Love this Idea

keberoxu 26 Mar 16 - 05:22 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 26 Mar 16 - 02:39 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 26 Mar 16 - 12:25 AM
Donuel 25 Mar 16 - 11:43 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 25 Mar 16 - 11:23 PM
Donuel 25 Mar 16 - 09:57 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 25 Mar 16 - 09:47 PM
Donuel 25 Mar 16 - 09:23 PM
Donuel 25 Mar 16 - 08:53 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 25 Mar 16 - 07:15 PM
Donuel 25 Mar 16 - 06:57 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 25 Mar 16 - 05:33 PM
Donuel 25 Mar 16 - 05:24 PM
Dave the Gnome 25 Mar 16 - 05:07 PM
Donuel 25 Mar 16 - 04:45 PM
Musket 25 Mar 16 - 03:24 AM
Dave the Gnome 25 Mar 16 - 03:09 AM
Keith A of Hertford 25 Mar 16 - 02:30 AM
Keith A of Hertford 25 Mar 16 - 02:14 AM
Donuel 24 Mar 16 - 06:27 PM
Dave the Gnome 24 Mar 16 - 04:15 PM
Donuel 24 Mar 16 - 03:30 PM
Dave the Gnome 24 Mar 16 - 02:07 PM
Musket 24 Mar 16 - 01:51 PM
Keith A of Hertford 24 Mar 16 - 01:50 PM
Steve Shaw 24 Mar 16 - 12:31 PM
Dave the Gnome 24 Mar 16 - 11:54 AM
GUEST,Raggytash 24 Mar 16 - 09:47 AM
Musket 24 Mar 16 - 09:19 AM
Keith A of Hertford 24 Mar 16 - 08:42 AM
GUEST,Raggytash 24 Mar 16 - 08:04 AM
Keith A of Hertford 24 Mar 16 - 07:47 AM
Musket 24 Mar 16 - 06:23 AM
Keith A of Hertford 24 Mar 16 - 05:24 AM
Keith A of Hertford 24 Mar 16 - 04:48 AM
Musket 24 Mar 16 - 04:31 AM
Steve Shaw 23 Mar 16 - 09:51 PM
Donuel 23 Mar 16 - 08:36 PM
Donuel 23 Mar 16 - 04:32 PM
GUEST,Musket 23 Mar 16 - 12:25 PM
Keith A of Hertford 23 Mar 16 - 12:03 PM
Donuel 23 Mar 16 - 10:01 AM
Donuel 23 Mar 16 - 09:02 AM
Donuel 23 Mar 16 - 08:21 AM
Keith A of Hertford 23 Mar 16 - 04:34 AM
Donuel 22 Mar 16 - 05:14 PM
GUEST,Musket 22 Mar 16 - 03:25 PM
Donuel 22 Mar 16 - 03:10 PM
Donuel 22 Mar 16 - 02:50 PM
Keith A of Hertford 22 Mar 16 - 02:48 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: keberoxu
Date: 26 Mar 16 - 05:22 PM

They have yet to close this thread. The age of miracles has yet to pass.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Mar 16 - 02:39 AM

Donuel, for the sake of expanding understanding, I felt compelled to point out to you, that you have contradicted yourself, from you're earlier post, about....wait, here are some of your quotes....

"There is nothing about us that can escape the norms of nature, we would have discovered it by now. Unless it is undiscovered."

"If you are not curious you may as well be dead
'Albert Einstein'"

"All things pass; old notions, incorrect hawking predictions#2, Newtonian space, inflation from anti gravity, me and even intransigence"

"It is not easy assembling new ideas or analyzing new ideas.
But it can be fun.
Looking at a new idea combined with other over looked factors is like an adventure.
Just denying the new by insisting the old is all there is, does not verify the old or clarify the new."

"I love the idea of diversity for those with a fair degree of scientific sophistication."

"Some of theses people could be religious or not, perfectionists or not."

...and finally(from just this page alone): "By the way, the disgraced role I wrote about is usually about the guy who supports and defends ideas or tech that is defunct for a lifetime.
Being that recalcitrant is something no one here is all about."

...except clinging to a self-imposed 'atheistic' decision, that excludes any possibilities that may change old perceptions of older misinterpretations??????

Regards....just hoping you may open up your vision wider....it won't bite you!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Mar 16 - 12:25 AM

It may add new meaning to the dimension of Beethoven's statements.... NOT 'religion' based!!!

Ludwig van Beethoven: "The vibrations on the air are the breath of God speaking to man's soul. Music is the language of God. We musicians are as close to God as man can be. We hear his voice, we read his lips, we give birth to the children of God, who sing his praise. That's what musicians are."

"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy. Music is the electrical soil in which the spirit lives, thinks and invents."
― Ludwig van Beethoven

"Music is the one incorporeal entrance into the higher world of knowledge which comprehends mankind but which mankind cannot comprehend."
― Ludwig van Beethoven

"Music is ... A higher revelation than all Wisdom & Philosophy"
― Ludwig van Beethoven

"Don't only practice your art, but force your way into its secrets, for it and knowledge can raise men to the divine."
― Ludwig van Beethoven

"My misfortune is doubly painful to me because I am bound to be misunderstood; for me there can be no relaxation with my fellow-men, no refined conversations, no mutual exchange of ideas, I must live alone like someone who has been banished."
― Ludwig van Beethoven


"Music is the mediator between
the spiritual and the sensual life."
― Ludwig van Beethoven

That all being said,....(or quoted)...YOU might have a different perception, of what is considered to be (quoting Ludwig), 'divine' 'Spiritual', 'ideas', 'higher revelations',...and even 'God'...

Not a matter of being an atheist....a matter of tapping into the unseen!!

Just 'consider' it.

Regards,

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 11:43 PM

Ptheewy. Sorry I had a word in my mouth.

Isn't it harmonious that a devout atheist like myself can co exist with religious conceptualists?


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 11:23 PM

Donuel: " I bet some music theory experts know more about this than my limited experimentation showed me."

I know an EXCELLENT one....I'll run it by him...along with your wonderful posts.

Don't you LOVE it when science and 'religion' come together??..'in a most profound way'??

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 09:57 PM

PS

You can't always get what you want by the Rolling Stones is another melody that uses just the beginning notes of the golden mean ratio.

This land is your land
and A lot more folk songs.

After the first 5 notes of the Fibonacci series the relationship of notes, allowing for octave reductions, sound very Avant Gard in their interaction. I bet some music theory experts know more about this than my limited experimentation showed me.

Its probably an algorithm in auto composing computers, some of which are very good at Bach.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 09:47 PM

Donuel, OK......Here is a video(s), that I was going to post for ya'....AGAIN, this should NOT be viewed 'religiously'...though the subject, is one of 'religious bastardization'! What I found fascinating was the scientific research, and the PROCESS, to come to a 'reasonable conclusion' to the matter. You might want to not 'jump the gun', till you watch it in its full entirety. One thing I noticed, was the demeanor of the researchers involved. At first, you don't see it...but as the video moves on, towards its final stages, they begin to have an aire of, 'We KNOW something....."

This is NOT a 'religious' video...but........in fact the 'clergy' interviewed did NOT seem to know for sure...

Regards!!


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 09:23 PM

Why did people who didn't even know catspaw personally love him so much?

As a story teller he shared experiences. Funny ones and some full of pathos.

We don't have a full blown story teller here anymore.

Maybe some of us could try.
Sure there are great scenarios though the eyes of rapier
The iambic pentameter of Amos and the wild character imaginings of Little Hawk

There are some professional Historians who each have valid perspectives.

Thee was a time when BS was a richer place and can be again with a old/new perspective.

now enough about you, me and us, lets get back to it, but this time...
with feeling, one two three four..


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 08:53 PM

Noyes

You are often more wordy than I. I attribute Beethoven's notion of God in the brackets of his era and as the Church funds for his art.

Every endeavor needs the trinity; Is it real, is it possible in time and how and who will fund it? Funds are the face of reality in religion that should never be forgotten.

'Bach Escher and Godel' the book, deals with what you are saying in depth.

There is a state of mind that is God like. It is a state of epiphany that is hard to achieve. For example I listened to Mozart for a thousand hours until a tall Asian woman played a Mozart violin concerto with an understanding of far more than music and for the first time I UNDERSTOOD THE GENIUS of Mozart's world.

I did not expect it but I was open to it. We can not share our personal accomplishments. We can not share every perspective, BUT WE CAN share experiences or at least their retelling.
Listen to those and take for yourself what you can use.

People feel that way about literature but I am less attuned to their gifts of perception. Indeed I am immersed in the emotions in literature but not the nuts and bolts of reading it.

Technology has helped. Before spell check here, no one ever responded to my posts or sent a pm. I must have looked idiotic in my attempt to write a coherent sentence.

So lets hope the sharing of experiences gets a boost by everyone who is curious.


I just had a random thought about the Republican elephant and all the blind candidates touching and describing what the creature is.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 07:15 PM

So, Donuel, the bits of Beethoven quotes not only made sense to you, you had further insights, that not only was I not aware of, you took it further.....AND..there IS a consistency, with God, music, science and awareness, that normally does not even get recognized, but delved into.

'God', they turned into a 'religion', instead of what it really is...
'Music', they're commercialized to appeal to the sensuality and frustrations...and aimed at an adolescent audience....
'Science', they dodge around the WHOLE, because they have to make room for 'theories'....and don't see that their 'theories' are more likened to 'religious faith'...which they dodge around!
Awareness', because of their limitations to consider a wider view...just to accommodate false and/or incomplete premises, in which they've proceeded to build upon!!

You OK with that??

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 06:57 PM

Gfs You should like this

Ancient Greece had its mathematicians who looked and found rules in nature. One of those rules was a ratio in which all plants obey when placing one emerging leaf above another so to equally spread access o the sun. Avogadro's number. Tis ratio was found again in the golden mean, Fibonacci's sequence. Even sculptures used the raio and called it the golden curve and still has universal appeal.

I took Beethoven's ninth Ode to Joy and other close knit themes and applied the golden mean ratio to the notes used. I had help from Catters above the line and compared Beethoven's melody to Fibbinoc's sequence from the scale that was posted in Midi.

They matched perfectly.

Beethoven delved deep with the rules of nature to construct graet and timeless themes. He did go deep in his theory and his silence to bring us the secrets of God, as he would put it


But gimme tight two part harmony and I'm happy. I'm not that deep or capable.
88888888888888888888888

Today I think sci fi is less than the greats of last century.

I/m not a great reader so I should probably be better informed on what I am missing.

I do not care for Marvel sci fi or action crap. Some of it is as bad as Godzilla vs. St. Mother Theresa. I know Inter stellar tried hard and it felt like it. Maybe producers of sci fi today don't know of the world's that were penned 25 years ago.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 05:33 PM

This post is mostly aimed at Donuel, because a couple of reasons.

First, It seems apparent that his musicality, is a bit more 'depthy', and serious, than the run of the mill trolls, who just want to spout and argue unlearned 'opinions'.

Second, Because his reply back to me showed more of an openness, to 'consideration'.

Third, because in his reply, he included this: "Predictions have to be based on existing knowledge. The people who make such leaps be it a Jules Verne or Albert Einstein do admit they saw a validity not based on facts alone but as though knowledge was captured in the wind."....

...and being as you termed it, in that manner, and are a musician of deeper understanding, I give you this(which I've posted several times in Mudcat, but nobody seems to get it)....

Ludwig van Beethoven: "The vibrations on the air are the breath of God speaking to man's soul. Music is the language of God. We musicians are as close to God as man can be. We hear his voice, we read his lips, we give birth to the children of God, who sing his praise. That's what musicians are."

"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy. Music is the electrical soil in which the spirit lives, thinks and invents."
― Ludwig van Beethoven

"Music is the one incorporeal entrance into the higher world of knowledge which comprehends mankind but which mankind cannot comprehend."
― Ludwig van Beethoven


"Music is ... A higher revelation than all Wisdom & Philosophy"
― Ludwig van Beethoven

"Don't only practice your art, but force your way into its secrets, for it and knowledge can raise men to the divine."
― Ludwig van Beethoven

"My misfortune is doubly painful to me because I am bound to be misunderstood; for me there can be no relaxation with my fellow-men, no refined conversations, no mutual exchange of ideas, I must live alone like someone who has been banished."
― Ludwig van Beethoven


"Music is the mediator between
the spiritual and the sensual life."
― Ludwig van Beethoven

That all being said,....(or quoted)...YOU might have a different perception, of what is considered to be (quoting Ludwig), 'divine' 'Spiritual', 'ideas', 'higher revelations',...and even 'God'...

Unfortunately, when this subject is brought up, those with a limited capacity to understand, cannot differentiate between a 'God force', and a 'religion'..being as their only point of reference, is what has been handed down, and rebelled against, when the Roman Empire, co-opted their government, and 'pagan rituals' and idols, with their interpretations(out of convenience), with an encroaching, popular, power called Christianity...that was threatening their ideology.

So, with that in mind, AND distancing the subject AWAY from 'religion', this may interest(even fascinate)you....

'Good' IDEA.....'Logos'(Greek)...Word used only one time, in the Bible

...and after this one I've got another link,(video), that may be of interest and consideration to you.

Anybody is welcome, but I'm not into entering a banal argument will small minded, emotionally disturbed, troll-like creatures.

Regards!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 05:24 PM

Jules Verne's perspective of sci fi did and does progress science.
THE ETHICS expert, philosopher, data collecting, astro physicist, the visionary, the incorrect, the puzzled, the newbie and all of us including the policy maker and politician are respondsible and need to get involved. We are at some critical turning points regarding the new possible. Diversity is good. but all nay sayer and no play, takes our future out of our hands.

Sci is of course credible, in great hands. I t a valid way of thinking when true science is involved.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 05:07 PM

Very well said. As I mentioned earlier I did not understand a lot of the posts. Not due to any communication issues but simply because I am no scientist. I thoroughly enjoyed the concepts put forward without a need to know that it may or may not be within our current knowledge. Rather like science fiction in some ways I suppose! Not that I am saying it is fiction. Or fact. Simply that we should keep an open mind. Only by doing so can we progress.

In my humble opinion that is.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 04:45 PM

If you are saying we have a failure to communicate, I agree.

Science is moving so fast your objections are wasting time. Delay is the weapon against us all. Think global warming.

I love the idea of diversity for those with a fair degree of scientific sophistication.

Some of theses people could be religious or not, perfectionists or not.
Some of these folks think in pictures like an interacting geometry, some only think in math. Some are visionaries who see great distances in directions where only time goes with the help of funding.

Because I think in interacting pictures does not make me a mystic shaman witch doctor, and you knew that.

Of course engaging in scientific inquiries is welcome however there was not one mention of thought experiment 1.2 to expand, point out paradox or even that it was proposed. We all know your motive is not scientific beyond a pedestrian level.

I would have seen evidence by now. There would not have been pages of nyyah nyyah nyaah.

I know America has lost its finesse and nuance centuries ago. But I expected a bit more decorum from the land of Newton. Asburgers and
autism would be a relief but one dimensional critics are boring.

You may personally be half decent blokes despite the mental images you presented to me. you will have to learn a new style of presenting, listening , stepping back and question again prior to a judgement that was singularly based on an original assumption.
Besides
The standard model had nothing to do with 1.2
it was all general relativity

If you are interested in forgetting all the mudcat nagging habits of the past I am willing to try to politely interact.Most of my life was based on assault me once and interaction stops forever, but that was adolescent. I have many more survival tactics now. If you can not have a overarching mind set of COMPETITION to the end and victory, I can not participate. Its OK not to care .


There are roles and personalities as varied in science as there are in music. Maybe the role of the disgraced and the race to disgrace fellow musicians is not as openly practiced as you guys play in the science or BS section.

In other words the need to SHOOT THE FISH IN THE BARREL is a mentality that does not exist in real science.com threads.

Worst of all you scare off people might like to join a discussion of questions and that is bullying


By the way, the disgraced role I wrote about is usually about the guy who supports and defends ideas or tech that is defunct for a lifetime.
Being that recalcitrant is something no one here is all about.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Musket
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 03:24 AM

Shit talkers? Did you see that? That was almost clever, that.

I suppose when "deeply held beliefs" are insulting at the intellectual level or impose their nonsense on others, "poor jerk" is letting them off lightly.

I don't get it. When I try suggesting that believing in fairy tales and superstition denotes a lack of reason and intelligence, Keith takes umbrage. Yet when you ask him further he reckons it's bollocks too. He rattles on about Big Bang and other heretic notions that contradict biblical belief but when it comes to being sanctimonious, halle fucking lullia.

Having problems separating belief from believing is your problem Keith, not the grown ups. You have a pop at Donuel for injecting bollocks into reality but don't notice the wonderful irony of your posts.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 03:09 AM

Who has mentioned shit talkers? And what is a literal shit talker? Is there any evidence for the phenomena of people (literally) talking shit? Surely you mean metaphorically? It is important to get these things right you know!


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 02:30 AM

btw, I share you contempt for the shit talkers (literally) who tried to get the thread closed.
Pity they were not deleted, but at least the thread stayed open and the discussion can continue.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 02:14 AM

I admire your ability to weave existing knowledge into original ideas Donuel.

Is it OK for me to politely point out any misconceptions that appear in your work.
That is all I have been doing.

May I request that you do not refer to me abusively as "poor jerk" and is it necessary to be so abusive about people's deeply held beliefs just because you do not share them?


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 16 - 06:27 PM

It is not my intention to make things sound difficult. It is my problem with language itself. It is sort of like stuttering.
So I abbreviate to the point of poetry instead of prose.

Amos suggested I find the link and post that but I need practice writing. But I am sure I can make my observations 99% clear with an appropriate link.

What I learned during this thread was about Plank stars in slow motion.

What is cool is being able to see quantum movement with the naked eye by bouncing drops of silicon on a vibrating medium of water.

What is speculative is how a plank star may flow against the tide of a gravity well with the help of equilibrium zones ( that was my only new idea ) right or wrong.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Mar 16 - 04:15 PM

Keep up the good work, Donuel. Even though I only understood about 50% of the postings it is still an enjoyable thread. Use a peg on your nose ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 16 - 03:30 PM

I LOVE THIS IDEA

If the lovable idea that started this thread had been about the harvesting of stem cells from your own eye to grow a brand new lens to cure cataracts , instead ABOUT EVOLUTION .
musket steve and keith would not have gotten schpilkies and kevetched for two weeks to make a lovely secular idea all about religious intolerance by religion or not.

Actually the idea of single lifetime evolution is 100 years old and began in Russe.

The advances in eye care have grown and offer many new alternative procedures to the old cut and replace with plastic method.


The metaphor above regarding human waste did occur to me but in my mind was from dogs that got on my shoe.

close this thread? why not? Who cares? Only trolls care.


ALL THAT WILL BE LOST ARE NEW IDEAS AND ESTABLISHED PROCEDURES WHICH TO THE anti idea Taliban would be an explosive victory
but no concern to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Mar 16 - 02:07 PM

Indeed, Musket. Good job I don't do it anymore! I can still smell the results though :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Musket
Date: 24 Mar 16 - 01:51 PM

On the tomato thread, we are discussing language terms and this thread can learn from it too.

Be careful talking about kicking shit Dave, cos over in Godblessamericaandallwhosailinhere, a shit kicker is a rather unsophisticated redneck yokel. Co Messiahs certainly don't fit into that category..


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Mar 16 - 01:50 PM

Talking out of your anal orifice again Professor.

No.
Would you like the links to prove it Rag?


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 16 - 12:31 PM

"There is no evidence that that shit is aware of the damage it is doing to peoples shoes and delicate nostrils or if it is doing any good for the local fauna (last bit is so I don't get in trouble with Steve!)"

Eat shit. 150,000,000 flies can't be wrong. (Toilet wall, Imperial College union bar, 1969)

The other bon mot I remember from the same location, inside the cubicle this time, on the door in front of you as you sat, was "Shit hard. It's a long way to the refectory."


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Mar 16 - 11:54 AM

I am no scientist but, I think, have intelligence enough to figure things out like evidence versus belief.

There is very strong evidence that if you kick a piece of shit it creates a stink and gets your shoes dirty. My belief is that this phrase, while hackneyed, is a good analogy for what is happening here. There is no evidence that that shit is aware of the damage it is doing to peoples shoes and delicate nostrils or if it is doing any good for the local fauna (last bit is so I don't get in trouble with Steve!). My belief is that peoples shoes and nostrils would remain unassailed from that quarter if they stopped kicking said shit. I am trying my best to give it up and, to date, instances of my footwear and nasal passages being attacked have reduced considerably.

On the balance of probabilities I would highly recommend other people try it. Trouble is that, as the shit is blissfully unaware that it is no longer being kicked, it continues to try and get up peoples noses.

C'est la vie as we say in Yorkshire...


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 24 Mar 16 - 09:47 AM

Talking out of your anal orifice again Professor.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Musket
Date: 24 Mar 16 - 09:19 AM

🐮💩

🐴🐴🐴🐴🐴🐴


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Mar 16 - 08:42 AM

You were unable to find a current historian who held different views to me on the points I made.
You only mentioned two recent books you had read, and neither did.

You claimed that one did by selectively quoting and editing what it really said, and then I exposed your dishonesty.

You also faked some quotes of historians to make them say the opposite of the actual quotes.
I found the originals and exposed that dishonesty too.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 24 Mar 16 - 08:04 AM

Some of us have read quite a lot on the subject over the past 20 years.

Yet another of your ill considered statements.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Mar 16 - 07:47 AM

I made no mistake.
Your mistake was believing your knowledge of history superior to the history books and the historians who research and write them.
"Those historians should know better" you said.

All I did was to repeat what I read.
I was ridiculed for that by people who had read nothing written for at least twenty years!

Likewise astrophysics and cosmology.
I follow the debate but do not consider myself qualified to contribute.
All have said here is mainstream current understanding.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Musket
Date: 24 Mar 16 - 06:23 AM

I understand that Keith. I see how you made the same mistake with WW1 history 🤓


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Mar 16 - 05:24 AM

. Filling in the gaps with mystic nonsense

That is what Donuel does, and nothing wrong with that.
It is just that if his understanding of what is already known is flawed, it detracts from the theories he builds on that.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Mar 16 - 04:48 AM

I did not say the book did not exist and I did not make any false statements.
Nothing Rovelli says contradicts anything I have said or supports what you said.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Musket
Date: 24 Mar 16 - 04:31 AM

You know, in that sentence, Donuel had our Keith weighed up better than I ever could.

Power to your smoked haddock of aircraft wing flaps Donuel!


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Mar 16 - 09:51 PM

"I am still full of questions and you have all the answers. Be happy."

Religion!


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Mar 16 - 08:36 PM

You can lead a horse's *** to water but you can't make it think

The book Keith says doesn't exist

As soon as you boys write your best seller let me know.

I recommend this book to anyone who likes to think clearly.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Mar 16 - 04:32 PM

All things pass; old notions, incorrect hawking predictions#2, Newtonian space, inflation from anti gravity, me and even your 3 false statements. If you can take a hint take it . If not why keep squawking? Just declare yourself king of the mountain and enjoy being right where you are without even looking past your rule set in stone.

I am still full of questions and you have all the answers. Be happy.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 23 Mar 16 - 12:25 PM

A bit like reli...

Naw, shooting fish in a barrel.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Mar 16 - 12:03 PM

Donuel, I have no objection to you making up theories and hypothesising about what might be.
This started because you made false assertions about what is.

You stated that neutrinos can escape through the EH.
They can not.
You stated,
"a black hole is just a critically large rebounding star that will eventually explode in a colossal bang second only to a big bang type explosion."

That is not what a black hole is, and black holes do not explode, though they may evaporate by the emission of radiation, not matter.

What you stated as fact has no basis in current knowledge, not even in the planck star hypothesis.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Mar 16 - 10:01 AM

Thought experiment: #1.2

Draw four Concentric circles.
.
the inner circle is the core of neutrons or neutrino plank star

the second innermost circle is an equilibrium zone is where the gravitational pull is equalized between the inner material and outer material.

the third circle is where centrifugal force is balanced with gravitational force.

The outermost circle is an event horizon.


Material falling in toward the core accelerate from the event horizon. When the material reaches the first equilibrium zone it merely coasts from inertia.

The material then begins to accelerates to the send equilibrium zone and then coasts again due to inertia.

Reaching the core a rebound process should begin with no place to go past a near infinitely packed core.

All the core needs to o is have just a tiny bit more energy heading outward to overcome inward falling material all the while heating up even more.

going outward the equilibrium zones act in a similar way as it does for material falling in.

We can begin to see a pulsating pumping action spreading out ward.

NOW lets look for real examples of this pumping action making concentric pulses of energy heading out ward from a black hole.


This   rebounding action has to heat up the entire black hole.


AS ALL THIS HAPPENS bear in mind that the space time gravity inside the event horizon has slowed relative time down to next to no forward movement of time. If there is even a little movement the slowness of time is not 0. So it can expand.

Now make your own thought experiment or explore this one. If you can confirm or deny this model in less than a day... you might b a red neck - just kidding. take your time.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Mar 16 - 09:02 AM

It is not easy assembling new ideas or analyzing new ideas.
But it can be fun.
Looking at a new idea combined with other over looked factors is like an adventure.
Just denying the new by insisting the old is all there is, does not verify the old or clarify the new.

One has to analyze the new, for example, by considering how two equilibrium zones can effect an energy vector of sufficient force to change the direction of space time. We already know that the velocity of space time is changeable.

But changing its direction? This is a new idea.

That all other stars rebound to some degree is an old idea.

It is hard but rewarding to prove an idea new or not.

The adventure is not about yes or no. iT IS ABOUT A THOUGHT EXPERIMENT OR REASON BASED ON DATA regarding the new.

Those are FUN. Lets have some fun...I bet Dave could, maybe you too.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Mar 16 - 08:21 AM

All things pass; old notions, incorrect hawking predictions#2, Newtonian space, inflation from anti gravity, me and even intransigence.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Mar 16 - 04:34 AM

I explained that black holes evaporate through hawking radiation.
The HR and evaporation increases as the mass decreases, so it is a small black hole when it finally vanishes in a puff of HR.

Someone (single obscure paper) has said such an evaporating bh might disappear in the form of a "planck star" and we have some artists impressions of what it might look like if did.

Large black holes, as I said, do not explode (according to current understanding.)

Black holes do produce neutrinos, but from infalling matter and/or flares, not from inside the event horizon.
No matter can escape that.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 16 - 05:14 PM

pictures of slow mo explo black holes

Plank stars. new and mind blowing


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 22 Mar 16 - 03:25 PM

I should have been specific about whose understanding..😂


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 16 - 03:10 PM

Until someone has the curiosity or ambition to google black hole neutrino factory and then reads ;
***********
Seven Lessons in Physics
by Carlo Rovelli
translated by Simon Carnell and Erica Segre
Riverhead books NY 2016
Chapter Grains of Space.
************
,there is nothing to say

If you are not curious you may as well be dead
'Albert Einstein'


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 16 - 02:50 PM

There is nothing about us that can escape the norms of nature, we would have discovered it by now. Unless it is undiscovered. To be extraordinarily free is the law of nature within our brains.

Our free investigations are determined by the rich and fleeting interactions among the billions of neurons in our brain which is you.
The primate can see and do like a mirror but does not process and surmise the better of two non intuitive choices. A monkey can not point to an object to make others look.

This strange multi colored world that we explore, where space is granular and a duality, time does not exist, and things are virtual, is not something that separates us from our true selves, for this is what our natural curiosity reveals to us about where we live. About which we ourselves are made, and when we are immersed in curiosity, joy or suffering we are being part of the universe.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Love this Idea
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Mar 16 - 02:48 PM

Perhaps you will support this assertion Steve?


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